Let's Chat About: Army Composition In Age of Sigmar 3rd Edition

[@CinderfallGaming]

Apologies one slight mistake. 1-6 heroes not 1-4. Apologies same as before as stated tho.

[@jhe703]

made my heart stop pumping for a second 😅

[@depalapili-pala4859]

@@jhe703 yeah had to come to the comments to check on this haha

[@idaeus5949]

Great video mate. That vocal quality really comes through, I could listen for days. Not that I need to, because you were concise and informative; just what I need for my sneaky KZbin break while I'm at work! XD

[@g-paint9523]

... RIP my plaguebearers ... Painted Up 70 of Them to run two 30 Units...

[@adrianscott4288]

2 thoughts: 1. The new Reinforcment rule feels like an indirect buff to Monsters and Heroes. I suspect we'll see more of both in army lists as a result. 2. I think the elimination of old Warscroll Battalions will really open up more varied list building. Without those extra warscroll synergies, there should be less need to pour points into 1-2 narrow army battalions. So for instance you might start seeing more mixed Trogg/Squig/Moonclan armies for Gloomspite Gitz.

[@ASMRAndroidGaming]

Thanks for explaining it mate👍helped me understand it much better.

[@CinderfallGaming]

You’re welcome mate. I’ll be aiming to do my best to help explain everything simply for all when the new edition hits properly.

[@care4ajellybaby403]

Great vid, very informative, thanks for the upload. Keep 'em coming!

[@CinderfallGaming]

Glad you enjoyed the video mate.

[@theboardgamebuff2732]

The part on reinforced units was great. I didn't quite understand it until I watched this. To me the new rules seem fantastic and will promote using different types of units as opposed to big blobs of the same thing.

[@Bluecho4]

It's interesting they're moving towards units only having the ability to "double up" on models in a unit once (twice for battleline). It's how One Page Rules's Age of Fantasy/Grimdark Future does it. And they generally have units that top off at 10 models by default. Then again, those games don't have any sort of force organization chart; if you can afford the units points-wise, you can field them.

[@WindlordRyu]

Feels like Reinforced units were added to prevent buff stacked deathstars with all the new command abilities we're getting, especially that Rally one. Although the max unit size of Auralan Sentinels also got increased with this. edit: Also Desolators won't be able to get their full number of attacks anymore. I guess Stormcast will be one of the first armies to get their new Tome but there's probably some other case like this out there.

[@rebeccachambers1846]

I'm... *holds breath* ... actually pretty happy with this. AoS is very abusable (if you want, which I appreciate, most of us don't). Buy an army book and look at synergy to either make an immovable object or an irresistible force... see which wins. These rules won't stop that but they will: (A) stop ridiculous synergies from stacking uncontrollably. (B) encourage force organisation instead of min/max-ing (C) allow some underused models to get some tabletime. .. bless 'em.

[@CinderfallGaming]

Very much agree. This edition does look to have solved some issues.

[@cmleibenguth]

That drastically changes unit sizes. Base Liberator Squad is 5. If they can be reinforced only twice, that means the new max is only 15. I guess between this and the coherency rule, they are trying to cut back on Hordes? I hope Reinforced 0-4 is for non-battleline. Understrength? As in instead of a squad of 5 Pallies, having a squad of 3? Or 1 tempestor instead of 2 (and why I even took 1 in this hypothetical example is a mystery)?

[@CinderfallGaming]

Means you can pay for 6 and take 5 to ignore coberency if nothing else.

[@cmleibenguth]

@@CinderfallGaming Oh that makes more sense. I guess if I were taking a bigger squad of Palladors than 3 for the Vanguard Chamber this would come up.

[@Neothunder240]

I'm really not looking forward to almost every unit being msu on even smaller boards. I don't want to play 40k. I was quite excited about basically every other rule but the reinforcement stuff has killed all of it. I wanted PPM to have more flexibility in list building, not even more limitations.

[@jdurthu4304]

Same here. I liked really kost of the rules but this reinforcement just lilled it for me. Monsters and heroes-ingle entities get a buf Infantry qnd cav get nerfed to oblivion by combination of coherency and reinforcment. I really do mot see who thought this is a good idea! I see why buffs were made to monsters but reinforcment rule just kills infantry and cav especially if we add the new coherency

[@ltericdavis2237]

I for one like limiting the amount of hordes. The more models on the board, the longer the game takes. And as a person who likes the collecting aspect of modeling, I absolutely HATE when I have to buy more than one box of a unit to make it effective. I want to get as many different types of units and models as possible into my army, and knowing that the unit of dark shards I just got doesn’t get its full usefulness unless I get another box just feels wrong to me. Now should some units like skeletons and goblins be usable in big hordes? Sure that’s their style. But should elite elven archers by moving around in giant blocks? I don’t really think so.

[@cronotekk9193]

@@ltericdavis2237 But this makes the game longer by splitting these units into loads of smaller ones. So more independent activations and buffs to keep track of

[@Neothunder240]

@@ltericdavis2237 That's okay, and with the old system, you could do that, while I could bring giant units because that's what I enjoy seeing, big armies. If you don't, you can always play with less points. But now you can still olay like that and I'm forced to make lists I don't enjoy playing.

[@richmcgee434]

@@Neothunder240 Too right. The rules changes punish players who like big units. Best you can apparently hope for is that the army books gradually make exemptions to the limits on reinforced units or flat-out change some unit min sizes. Whole game seems to headed down the Herohammer route WFB 4th and 5th edition took, which was awful then and I doubt it'll be better in 2021.

[@josemanuelamagofuertes6568]

To me looks great to avoid seeing small armies leaded by an 800 points character and also to avoid the spam of gigantic elite units; this way, combined with the coherence rules the overall gameplay will be more interesting, fun and less exploiting around certain units or characters since, depending on the changes they are going to make to minimum unit sizes and this implies changes in the warscrolls in many cases, probably the whole meta exploiting have been dinamited and the game will be more interesting, we are going to see many more small units around instead of strange unending blocks

[@Bluecho4]

It would be nice if we could see the Force Organization Chart for 750 pt lists. Just so we all have a rough idea what to build towards. Obviously the exact composition of small armies will require the updated points values.

[@mathieuboe9128]

1-2 Leaders 1+ Battleline 0-1 Behemoth 0-1 Artillery 0-1 Endless Spell & Invocation 0-1 Reinforced Unit

[@Bluecho4]

@@mathieuboe9128 Thx

[@srenpisani4968]

So all the new battalions in my new lumineth book are going away😳??

[@DevAndy-x9n]

no

[@carlin2212]

The theory is that they are moving the in battletomb ones to narrative play only. Not confirmed but this has been said by reputable sources

[@Painting_Roses]

I really dislike this change for horde armies

[@CinderfallGaming]

As a player of horde armies myself, I think with the changes to points coming and how this effects other armies aswell, it’ll all work out fine.

[@Painting_Roses]

@@CinderfallGaming I don't really see why, we could be getting cheaper heros and mosters and more expensive infantry, like, why do you think things will work out?

[@CarburetorThompson]

@@Painting_Roses because horde players need to buy the most models it’s in gw interest to make sure they aren’t unplayable. Although they don’t always do the sensible thing.

[@manda60]

Ok, smaller units is a great thing. Waiting for people to move 40 skeletons is ridiculous.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

Welcome to AoS 40K edition gentlemen, GW finally got the balls, idk if they want to ruin the game, or they think people play 40K for the rules or if this is the first steps to taking us back to fantasy rules (as with the lore) either way, my want for the game is dwindling rapidly

[@Turai12]

I don't see which new rules you dislike? Seems like an overall improvement from what I can see.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

@@Turai12 coherency sucks, battalions (saw the leak of the 6 core battalions) and unit sizes as well, all the other rules are great, but these 3 things literally killed the edition for me

[@Turai12]

@@hades_deathgod9496 haven't seen the batallions yet so can't comment but the unit size change seems great to me. Might result in a greater mix of units on the table instead of insane spam.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

@@Turai12 warcom just put up an article about it if you want to check it out, but I might be changing my mind about the battalions

[@Turai12]

@@hades_deathgod9496 thanks for the tip

[@EndemikBitki-xc6li]

Emeğinize sağlık güzel paylaşım.

[@JosephThomasIV]

What about units that are "other". How many of thought can you bring? Like the bladelords for Lumineth or my Evocators for Stormcast?

[@zastro3432]

You can only reinforce them once so a max unit would be 10 for both of those units

[@Turai12]

So.. I'm terrible at figuring out sizes but does this mean smaller tables? Cuz I damn hope so. Almost impossible to play at someone's table at home atm.

[@CinderfallGaming]

Yes the new 2000 point size is 4 of the Warcry/Kill Team Boards put together. It’s about 23% smaller

[@Turai12]

@@CinderfallGaming awesome!

[@idaeus5949]

Not exactly. It's a 'minimum' size. Tournaments will stick to this because smaller tables are easier for them to manage logistically. But nothing stops your mate insisting on using a bigger table size for casual games at his house...

[@Turai12]

@@idaeus5949 yeah none of my friends had big enough tables for 2k. Hence my happiness at. A more reasonable size!

[@idaeus5949]

@@Turai12 Well then, that's completely the opposite problem, and I'm happy for that's resolved for you! XD On a similar note, I'm pretty happy to hear that a minimum number of terrain pieces is to be enforced. Whether it's age of sigmar or 40K, I am a big believer in the idea that more terrain makes a better game! :-D

[@Ggggggmmmm324]

They really don't want ppl to play nagash

[@jdurthu4304]

I was super hyped and happy about 90% of what we have seen about the new edition, but this is hetting to far imo. It can be saved by increasing most of the 5 man units to be 10 in minimum size, and bring up some 10ths to 20. But lets summarise. Less buff stacking-a briliant thing on its own. New rules for heroes and monsters- allso a good thing on its own. No conga lines coherency- looks good but will be super dangerous for some infantry on big bqses and cav. And now this bomb. Combined with the rest it will imo kill not only hordes but most infantry. If i have max 15 man squad of 5man infantry, monster charges me and makes some MW or no CA for me, than his build in MW for example, and than it hits your guys. Like wtf? This would mean that most of the unit is probably already dead.

[@CinderfallGaming]

I don’t think it’ll affect hordes as much as people think. My Scourge Privateers, Wanderers, Tzeentch Arcanites, Skaven are all find with the changes.

[@Leerenwandler]

@@CinderfallGaming no skaven are not all fine with this. If the warscrolls and pitched profiles stay the same it will kick the Ass of any pestilence list. Our normal an incentivised (by rules) 2 blocks of 40 becomme reduced to 2x30 at the cost of all our reinforcement

[@jdurthu4304]

@@Leerenwandler yea that is raugh. Really hope many of the units that now come in 10 will come in 20 in the future. And many 5 in 10. For me as a KO player it is not that important but i can imagine the fear of skaven, serafon with skinks or gitz players

[@theoffbeatgamer8285]

All these changes are fine as long as points are balanced with the whole new game setup in mind. Like say for fyreslayer players HGB are currently 400 for 20 or 360 for 15 (so you never see 15). Now 15 will be the new max so are points going to reflect that etc. Also the game seems to have given multiple buffs to shooting armies (in an already shooting meta) so we need to see shooting units have increased points. Also more MSU means more powerful MW bubbles so those things need to go up.

[@calveras86]

Only 4 heroes in 2000pts?🤔

[@Bluecho4]

He corrects himself in a pinned comment. It's 1-6 heroes.

[@manda60]

...how many do you usually run??

[@calveras86]

@@manda60 in nighthaunt? All 6,and I wish I could run more 😂

[@batmandalorian5504]

@@calveras86 yepour NH armies are all about the heroes :-)

[@manda60]

Ok, smaller units is a great thing. Waiting for people to move 40 skeletons is ridiculous.

[@Painting_Roses]

movement trays

[@cronotekk9193]

Now they're going to move those 40 skeletons in 4 units of 10. Each of those units keeping track of their own buffs, debuffs, and activations for melee. This slows the game down