LET’S DEBATE: LOVE❤️ SEX🍆 FANTASY🧝‍♂️

Let's talk about love and sex in books!
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[@DanielGreeneReviews]

What topic would you like to see next?

[@filon738]

Dark Lords and why Dream Master is always the first comment

[@locolima279]

Hawaiian shirts!

[@arronjameshook]

Is that a Roman Gladius?

[@evilkiller298]

Death in fantasy.

[@joldomort5515]

loco lima oh yeah the shirts

[@jthrone7768]

Never thought I’d be getting “the talk” from a booktuber with a sword at 6am.

[@josedaviddelevante9211]

Mate this probably the best "the talk" that I have ever had.

[@cheezy3]

Then you definitely don't know Daniel ;)

[@tifftargaryen490]

That sounds even weirder out of context

[@arthasmenethil7208]

what about getting "the talk" with a friend?

[@jhart1127]

@Go Throne huh, this is what I always saw for you

[@NaDa-kw2fu]

My favorite 'love story' quote " Romeo & Juliet is not a romance, it's a 3 day fling between a 13 year old and a 17 year old that caused 6 deaths."

[@katiewright3309]

Yes, exactly! What a lot of people criticizing the romance in the play don't realize is that Shakespeare didn't write it as a romance but as a tragedy. Shakespeare understood young stupid love between two teenagers. He also understood how tragic it is to realize that the two families long feud with petty fighting caused two stupid and "in love" teenagers to die. It was tragic how their deaths and their relationship was the one thing that finally made them end their feud.

[@rosasutubechannel]

I completely agree, What is the quote from?

[@JohannaSarkar]

”Romeo & Juliet isn’t a love story, it’s a hate story”

[@rosasutubechannel]

I would really like to know where that quote is from.

[@lamarepository248]

I had a teacher who believed that Romeo and juliet was a comedy

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

Daniel Greene's Fantasy Sex Scene Tier List WHEN?

[@ActionMan153]

You MUST be more specific as to what fantasy sex scenes you're referring to! Haha

[@twoinchchode4804]

Rand & Aviendha S-tier

[@elliotburns4961]

There aren't any good ones

[@whimsydearest]

The tentacle sex scene in The Hundred Thousand Kindgoms had better make God-tier.

[@ducky36F]

Elliot Burns idk I really like how Joe Abercrombie uses the sex scenes in his books. Especially Best Served Cold and A Little Hatred

[@MKTraxel]

Also, amicable break ups happen. Once a couple gets together, they don't have to be permanent or only end because of some massive incident.

[@BlackReshiram]

Amicable breakup represent here 👉👉

[@kaywho6477]

yeah but the essence of any novel is conflict. an amicable break up is great but does it make for a thrilling story? uh....no, not really?

[@mariebourgot4949]

@@kaywho6477 Depends how it's written, and conflicts don't have to have always/the whole story, the same source.

[@adrianbundy3249]

@@kaywho6477 But not EVERYTHING in a novel should be focused in some giant conflict. Times of peace to contrast with the conflict. Periods of calm, if properly placed by an author who knows pacing, to really drive home that frenetic energy when things like the climax often happen. And I really don't see a valid point why a breakup between two people would necessarily need to be a conflict focus of a story.

[@curranfrank2854]

@Chris G "going through" that right now lol. U know the relationship wasn't meant to last when you felt relief after it ended XD. No hate to him tho obv, just neither of us ended up getting attached.

[@areeshafatima798]

i think its interesting how women empowerment in literature is basically women being more like men (physically strong, emotionally unavailable, etc) its almost like authors think that traditionally feminine traits arent "strong". female empowerment isnt women changing their nature to be more manly its realizing that feminine traits are just as important and make us just as worthy as any man

[@lindakarlsson7348]

It can be both. Strong and emotionally distant men are never questioned as much as strong and emotionally distant women. The best thing is to give both male and female characters both strengths and weaknesses. A woman can be a warrior, or a seamstress, or both. She can be brave, insecure, selfish, shy, loud, kind and caring, not kind and caring etc. Include several female characters and give them different personalities, just as usually done with male characters.

[@kingsadvisor18]

True. Despite being a stereotypical Disney princess, Cinderella is most definitely a strong female character. Its not a rule, but a lot of times victims of abuse become abusers themselves but not Cinderella. In the face of all the crap her family puts her through, she remains the kind and truthful person she always has been when it would be perfectly understandable to grow to be resentful and bitter, a sign of deep inner strength.

[@idkman2633]

Except it’s not “their nature” it’s our upbringing. Men are told to suppress emotion and women are told they feel it all no matter what. If either fails at this, they’re ridiculed and risk the consequences. Which subsequently differs in severity from culture to culture. “Women empowerment” is a lot. A lot. More complicated than just “emotions make you strong uwu” lmao

[@keyboardstalker4784]

It’s not “female nature” it’s just how women are socialized. Women are just as capable of displaying “traditionally masculine traits” as men are, they’re just socialized differently. Great job doing a feminism by pushing gender essentialism.

[@areeshafatima798]

@@idkman2633 huh what even if you take away the upbringing which i do agree is a part of it women do tend to be more maternal and emotional (most of them) but these traits are seen as inferior or not strong which is what i have a problem with. Emotional strength is what makes a character strong and to paint every woman who cries or is emotional as weak or crazy and damaging and those women are always contrasted with our main protagonist who rolls her eyes at this behaviour and just doesn't care abt anything and the men in her life are glad she doesn't play the same games as other women do

[@coryjordan6984]

Fun story. I just started at a new AT&T store, and quickly found another employee has my exact taste in books. Talking WoT, Sanderson, Rothfuss, I told him I thought he'd really enjoy this book tuber I watched regularly. He immediately responded, "Daniel Greene?" You are spreading

[@joldomort5515]

Let’s Debate!! Does the size of sword-mic matter?

[@shamimahmedchowdhury4228]

Lol same

[@thehoodednerd6930]

The size of the sword mic doesn't matter it's how you use it. Just don't stab your(or someone else's) eye out

[@FractalSpiral1]

Yes, and no. It depends on the situation. Sometimes you need to hew through tough, bony exteriors of horrors from beyond time and space, in which case a larger, heavier blade would have an easier time getting to the soft insides. Other times, you'll be in cluttered or cover dense areas, in which case something more compact would most likely be effective and not get caught. Whatever the case may be, use protection and don't only rely on straightforward stabbing motions. The blade is capable of a startling range of motion, skill can make up for most physical deficiencies, and what matters most is you walking away hale at the end of any engagement.

[@Wundercc]

@@thehoodednerd6930 Size matters, she lied bra lol.

[@thehoodednerd6930]

@@Wundercc 😂😂😂

[@CatrionaReads]

The fact that you didn't title this video "Love Sex Magic" is such a wasted opportunity for an elite mid 00's RnB reference

[@adamgrogory]

And now it changed

[@DaDunge]

Should have named sex drugs and rock'n roll and then gone with the joke from Terry Pratchett's soul music "One out of three isn't bad."

[@shamanywallace2436]

"what's going on? do ya wanna go grab a hot dog? let's do that!" peak romance

[@FractalSpiral1]

If he'd said "do ya wanna go grab my hot dog?" it would still be a better romance story than 50 Shades of Grey.

[@andrewdiaz3529]

"I can swing a sword, shoot a bow, therefore feminism" is an instantly understandable way to put it thank you.

[@yeodobro8979]

A lot of the time those type of characters aren’t there to make a stance. They’re female for no particular reason just like how you probably are. So when they don’t give them too much a personality or character, it isn’t because they thought wtv I already checked the box for feminist, it’s mostly because they didn’t want them to be very important. If you’re coming across main female characters who are like this, it’s most likely because the author isn’t very good at writing, and not a problem in fantasy as a whole. Or maybe I haven’t read enough books.

[@andrewdiaz3529]

@@yeodobro8979 "female like you probably are".? I'm not, what made you think that?

[@yeodobro8979]

Andrew Diaz or homosexual, same shit ma nigga

[@yeodobro8979]

Andrew Diaz I was saying like how you are a female for no reason it wasn’t an insult of any kind, it’s fine to be homosexual or a female Idrc

[@mariebourgot4949]

@@yeodobro8979 I'm here to state the ovious because it's sadly needed. Homosexual men are not the same as women because they are not women they are men.

[@jackinthebox1993]

"One-way ticket to 'get the hell outta my life' town" 🤣🤣🤣

[@AngryGingerHorse]

it's good to see this topic finally unsheathed

[@CapturedInWords]

That thigh catch was pretty impressive ngl

[@kadijahamad9862]

I was looking for this comment 😂

[@katharinafisher394]

he threatened the poor little cell with the sword so much it was trying to escape

[@EmilyMcCosh]

The "guys can't be affectionate or else it's sexual" thing drives me INSANE and I'm glad it bothers other people as well! Same thing between men and women. Sometimes people just love each other in a platonic way and need a hug. 😂

[@riftalope]

I'm a " Lower case Bi" and imagine everyone I SEE naked due to very mild Asperger's. (movement under clothes when I'm not even trying to look.) I have dozens of friends I've never thought of sexually even while mutually nude. Nude isn't sexual. Of my friends only a few (what? 6?) straight guys and one gay couple even turn me on. Not that I'd turn down most of them if they asked for head. They're FRIENDS! But I'd ask for their wives permission these days. We've had hard cries and extreme joys without it even getting weird. Even after I disclosed that everyone's delicious. Two of my sets of friends get nude easily. We've had naked hugs both sober and not, and a couple of injured scrotum skincare assists. (No place for a bee sting.) Not a twinge of desire on my side. Just note taking. Heck, we've even had a heatwave hotel morning gathering of 5 raging piss woodies while trying not to be late for checkout, go ing, "No time, woman! Move your knees out of the way! The men are pissing into the shower together! Everyone, get an eye-full! "We were keeping each other from falling in with our shoulders as I held the wall. Even with two nudes and a thong it was totally non-sexual... Until one of the guys said "More than an eye-full!" and began to beat off loudly while still pissing beside me. I laughed nervously, finished my whizz and said, "You still ain't got no a$$." "Thank GHHHOD!" "Or you'd be in trouble!" "I know, I know. HE's got the rump!" "Do not!" "You can't tell from there!" "I think they're all nice." "Thanks!" "Group goose! Nice!" "Ooh that did the trick. GHN!" "OK, I'm out." "Still pissing and I didn't need to see that." "I did, thanks!" "I wish I had." "I'm right here honey." "Oh, I see yours at least monthly." "And I appreciate the infrequency of it being seen!" "Ah, romance! Flush the tub." And then there was the tent camping and fishing trip when my friends, the straight, monogamous couple, let me watch them go at it, rather than have me just listening from my own tent beside them, and not falling asleep. (Late birthday gift?) I've been in three "all stranger" orgies. (A fun two years!) All strangers meaning I'm new to the group and might have one or two equally new friends with me. I only did one guy and the host each time. (I'm a top. No backsies. Head don't count with rubbers.) But I did four or five gals at each. Even with four dudes wanting it I was focused mostly on women at those times. Well except for my hands. Wait. Two of those times it was the same guy. The dwarf that was there and his wife I did the next week, after meating (sic) his wife. (They've moved. Bought a farm out of state. But I visit them every couple of years. Great 3somes outside!) My friends and I throw convo's like, (Me starting,) "Your other left." "Fu-Que." "Not my type." "Tease." "Beanpole." -Fall down laughing! I'm the one that should be calling HIM a tease. I'm also "out" to another town of friends, and a few folk in my hometown on the DL. Mostly in unofficial clubs.

[@amp7980]

I wouldn't say its the most phallic. But the blade getting bigger for this conversation is def a metaphor

[@Wh4tsupy0]

The way the background is partially visible in Daniel's shirt is... *chef's kiss*

[@JRawlings14]

Don't know how spicy this take is, but I'd like to see more relationships in stories that follow the relationship *after* the couple has gotten together. The everyday life of relationships can be complicated and interesting enough on their own and can lead to good drama. I feel like most romances in stories are just about the couple getting together without exploring the relationship afterwards. I loved the romance in the Mistborn trilogy cause I feel like it actually explored more issues of the relationship than just getting together.

[@TokyoBlue587]

JRawlings14 I think a good example is the Jim & Naomi relationship in The Expanse. It goes through a few realistic ups and downs.

[@rosasutubechannel]

YESS!!! I have been wanting this so much lately.

[@aprilblues3202]

This...! Romance is one of my favorite genres since i love watching the tension and laughing at stupid decisions, but once the couple decide to be together the interest tends to drop into nonexistence.

[@Sheriff_K]

Yeah, my favorite part of romances is the cute couple moments.. I want to see those moments after they’re together too! 😔🤦🏻‍♂️

[@assimilater-quicktips]

A billion percent this. And I have said this for quite some time. I am tired of all these romances I get invested in ending after the love confession

[@precisa_]

Why does Daniel have so many Knives/Swords?

[@daiden6421]

The real question is, why dont you?

[@anthonycrayne2835]

Because they're awesome.

[@BOOOOOOOONE]

You can never have too many knives.

[@Mhidraum]

Well... In my case it comes with the territory of being a viking, I guess. Not kidding either. My family have been living in the area in Norway called Viken for 700+ years. The earliest mention of my last name is from the 14th century.

[@hhoi8225]

I don't mind, as long as he promises to never thrust that sword vigorously towards the camera ever again while simultaneously unsheathing it... and then commenting on his Spiderman-like thighs... especially on this specific video... lol

[@oilikaekoile]

Hot take: Love “triangles” are always love “triads”, two characters focused on the same one character (A likes B and C, B likes A, C likes A. B and C have no romantic or platonic interest). Seeing a real “love triangle”, either each character being romantically interested in the other two (A likes B and C, B likes A and C, C likes A and B) or each character in the triangle interested in a character that doesn’t return their feelings (A likes B, B likes C, C likes A), would be an extremely rare treat. The difference between a “triangle” and a “V”, huge implications.

[@TokyoBlue587]

MR Oss in the book Under the Net (fiction, not fantasy, but a great book), Jake likes Anna, Anna loves Hugo, Hugo loves Sophie, Sophie likes Jake.

[@christinaa.1165]

Or, the love triangle could involve feelings that aren’t romantic. E.g., father and son both love the same woman, who has feelings for both of them. Father and son also love and respect each other, so they need to navigate around that. I think that’s a nice set up too

[@AlirioAguero2]

@@christinaa.1165 ''father and son both love the same woman, who has feelings for both of them'' This is literally the plot of Dinko Šimunović's novel Alkar, one of the most recognizable romance books of the early 20th century in Croatia.

[@AlirioAguero2]

Yeah, but for this to happen, at least two of the people involved would have to be bisexual, which is probably a ''risky move'' in the mainstream. But it would be interesting.

[@robertbemis9800]

I think a interesting version is A boy likes B girl, C girl likes A boy, B girl likes C girl but is still in closet

[@Memory_of_Light]

It would be cool to see more fantasy protagonists who are in established relationships that are past the honeymoon period and have found all their partner's annoying habits. Kind of feel like there's a lot that can be done with that.

[@Memory_of_Light]

@@ohthreefiftyoneSIlly fool! Don't you know Heros can only be adopted farm boys with magic swords and big destinies! Also, hello stranger from 3 months in the future

[@rivendells_shona]

Michael J Sullivan does this; but while he features romance as one of the many types of relationships in his stories, he focuses more on bromance. 😋

[@jordanleighton6893]

“Love line” Angle, Daniel. Angle is the world you’re looking for

[@dianaaizenshtat1062]

Why can't I like this twice

[@TheLJShow-ys8wr]

@@dianaaizenshtat1062 You can, try.

[@harpertayback8663]

There's a planet named Angle? Apologies I'll leave.

[@jordanleighton6893]

Harper Tayback didn’t even see the typo lmao, good catch

[@harpertayback8663]

@@jordanleighton6893 Sorry, just thought it was sorta funny in a lame way lol.

[@robertdullnig3625]

"It's not always a trip to fairyland." Can't imagine what 1000-page novel that's a reference to.

[@Ponderingbooks]

Thank you for this! 😂 I would not have caught that if not for you pointing it out. 😅🤪

[@fluffypenguins]

I'm still confused

[@rathnaisaac9905]

@@fluffypenguins same don't worry-

[@thisisme4074]

what

[@robertdullnig3625]

@No Name Wise Man's Fear.

[@taragonleaf8005]

I would enjoy more platonic relationships between men and women that are still very close and perhaps still have an element of physical affection. I like the Last of Us because a father-daughter relationship is forged between two unrelated people and its really sweet. Or say one male basically adopts another as his older brother. A platonic relationship doesn't need to imply they are on an equal basis. Forgive my stream of consciousness.

[@DarthDookieMan]

I feel like platonic relationships such as Joel and Ellie in The Last of Us are not that uncommon at all. What I mean is that there is a difference between father daughter relationships, and platonic, but still caring affections between 2 people in the same age group; the childhood friends and the like. Most of the time, in those portrayed relationships in stories, there's at least some romantic tension of sorts, whether or not it is a one sided affection. Why can't a man and a woman/boy and girl who are close just be friends with no romantic tension?

[@rogerhuggettjr.7675]

I like the relationships that start out platonic and/or antagonistic, but they see other sides as they work together. Isn't that really what those of us wanting a lasting relationship would call a fairytale romance? Where someone has trust, respect and deep caring and then when you think it can't get any better there's sex!

[@Natilra]

Re: Pregnancy A woman's weight has a massive impact on her menstruation. So, if your female characters have been malnourished all their lives, they might well struggle to conceive.

[@mariebourgot4949]

More to the point is her fertility.

[@mascotwithadinosaur9353]

That kinda makes me happy bc I don't want kids

[@Merlijn1994]

Sure, but it's far from always that people are severely malnourished in fantasy books. That would be one way to explain why nobody is getting pregnant, but more often than not we're getting nothing (also, starving yourself =/= a good method of contraception, don't try this at home please)

[@Natilra]

@@Merlijn1994 Absolutely! I was not advocating that, just trying to provide a possible explanation to make stories work.

[@robertbemis9800]

I always liked great magical power cost both genders fertility

[@breezy3392]

That point on stalking covers most of what's wrong with Twilight 😂

[@thetalantonx]

@Chris George Twilight would actually be GOOD if it were presented as a warning on narcissistic personality disorder and toxic relationships. But no, it's "romantic." So it's a dumpsterfire at a plague ward.

[@thetalantonx]

@Chris George With the Joker and Harlequin as another ideal couple for spice. Screw postmodernism. :P

[@breezy3392]

Twilight would have been great as a horror novel with a vampire pursuing a teenage girl who has no way to defend herself, if the author had actually framed this abusive relationship as an abusive relationship.

[@farmgirlrebel1333]

Honestly, I don't read Fantasy for erotica. If I am going to read erotica, I'll look for a novel with that approach. I don't mind some romance, but sex scenes I skim over...maybe because I'm "older" and sex isn't a mystery anymore, and the older you get, you realise that hot steamy sex gives way to "lets turn off the lights and try not to laugh" sex, ahhh the joys of aging. With that "aging" comes a very real understanding that sex is never the focal point of any long lasting relationship. It's the road that is traveled together, the sorrows and shared joys that bond two people together, sex and intimacy are needed of course but it's not the glue that holds a relationship together. Beyond that, describing a one night stand, or just general sex scene...well, I find myself wondering who the author is targeting with that scene? What is this graphic sex scene adding to the story by being so graphic? Usually I cannot find anything that sways me towards "oh, great idea to write a graphic sex scene"...just one old woman's perspective.

[@briancaster2876]

As a guy in my mid 30's (I don't know how old you are) I fully agree. I find the older I get the less I read and the more I skim the sex scenes. I find that they rarely add anything to the book and I'm tired of reading how someone "rides an explosion of PASSION to the stars" or whatever. The human elements are much more interesting.

[@BananLord]

Also, intimacy is not always a synonym of sex

[@LethalByChoice]

I completely agree and I wish authors would keep it out of serious stories that are not categorized as apart of erotica. Sex is private for a reason, and people often do not like knowing about other people's sex lives. You don't need a sex scene to know that these two characters that are romantically involved love each other or have sex... it's obvious they do, you can feel it in the chemistry. If you need a sex scene to show how much these characters love each other... that just means you aren't writing their dynamic or chemistry properly... or you have a skewed and narrow view of romantic relationships that borders on unhealthy.

[@rivendells_shona]

I’ve only found sex scenes to be beneficial if they factor into character relational development and bring up genuine considerations for the reader. For example: if one or both characters have suffered SA or body trauma, then their first intimate encounters should address that communication, sensitivity, and consent are critical through the process. Note: one can do this to a point and still draw the curtain; and it doesn’t have to be super graphic. But simply going from a kiss to fade to black and then picking up the next morning like everything went smoothly doesn’t hit right if either character has significant trauma that would affect their relationship.

[@rogerhuggettjr.7675]

I'm 55 and don't think more sex is needed in fantasy. I like thinking that despite Dragons, evil nobility, ring wraiths, dark lords, and undead people can still have traditional values and modesty can flourish. One of the things I enjoy about some of Assimov's older sci-fi is that even as he pictures a foreign future an author can't escape his own culture. It can be a time capsule to see what things a 50's author takes as a given in relationships and tell a story of the past as well as the future. The Naked Sun and Caves of Steel are good examples.

[@peteraitken3818]

In Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night there is a REAL love triangle (where all points link) due to cross dressing.

[@hansyolo8277]

Looks like Daniel is going to try and re-found the Roman Empire. FORM THE PHALANX, BOYS

[@dallanmiller1714]

...to stop him..? Or are we talkin real early republic/kingdom days? XD

[@hansyolo8277]

@@dallanmiller1714 He's gonna need men to hold spears and shields

[@MrValkilmer35]

This turn of events is making me gladius.

[@MrKittyKwon]

when it comes to toxic relationship i feel like even if authors tried to show them as bad it would fly over so many people's heads and they would end up romanticizing them and condoning them

[@rngmstrdan]

kinda what humans do. codependency's a bitch.

[@nicolaszan1845]

People have romanticized Ted Bundy. I'm fairly certain they can romanticize anything.

[@Znyggisen]

Well, I'd say that both readers and authors will have different interpretations of what is and isn't toxic/abusive relationships. Not specifically tied to fantasy, but the popularity of both Twilight/50 Shades perhaps speaks volumes of said issue, with both audience and authors apparently finding said relationships very romantic. I personally can kinda give 50 shades a pass because it is an adult book and not really my place to judge anyones kinks, but Twilight at least have a much younger audience so it is an interesting phenomenon that many aspects such as stalking/controlling/grooming/physical abuse are all be portrayed, interpreted, and justified as romantic.

[@michaelhowze8198]

They definitely will see Joker and Harley

[@LethalByChoice]

That's why I highly disagree with that take. A relationship in a story should have bumps and hurdles to be realistic but making the toxic relationship for no reason is completely unnecessary just for the sake of inclusion and it makes me shudder at the thought because toxic relationships are ugly to see, let alone read in great detail... in a story where escapism is the entire point. If the relationship being toxic serves a purpose to the story or it's purpose is to showcase an overall message, that's different.

[@hernandoaguiloso]

To quote JD and Turk from Scrubs: "it's guy love, between two guys"

[@yannickgrignon2473]

What a great show.

[@bugsby4663]

The love triangle is so silly. If someone said I love you but can't decide between you and someone else, most people would walk away.

[@mrstrangeworld5977]

not really

[@asdfssdfghgdfy5940]

@@mrstrangeworld5977 yes really

[@KierTheScrivener]

Sex education with Daniel 😆 Really enjoyed this conversation. Loved this style a lot more

[@rl8792]

"Jumping into poundtown" casually thrown into the middle of a sentence got a chuckle from me

[@violetavidal8441]

I had to double check that he actually said that, cause he was so casual about it

[@Whoops1039]

Samee

[@savannahu5410]

The only time I can see "following" someone you care about for longer than like... 30 seconds is you are trying to be cute and surprise/scare them but the important thing is it should never be longer than about 5 minutes and at the end, THEY SHOULD KNOW you are there! I have run into friends and family in random locations and quickly hid so I could circle around to surprise them but it's never stalking, it's always in good fun and never for longer than however long it takes to beat them around a corner.

[@Pizza_Party]

I have pretended to be a robber to friends. I'd just appear behind them and be there like 'give me your wallet' but, after the initial scare, they always recognised my voice (close friends) and it's never following for more than a minute (because then it'd be super creepy and super boring if i were to follow them around any longer)

[@ryanratchford2530]

8:00 fun fact. The best natural contraceptive humans ever came across was a Greek seed that was extremely effective. It was so widely used & sold that it’s formed an enourmous part of their economy (so much so that the seed was printed on their coins!) The seed became a symbol of love (& sex) so much so that the shape of the seed became the image of the ❤️ That’s why the “heart” looks nothing like the organ. It’s what the contraceptive seed looked like. Unfortunately back then they didn’t have a motion of extinction & the idea that somthing could just permently vanish if th resource is drained & so the sexy times cause the seed/plant to go extinct.

[@robertblume2951]

Pretty sure the heart is shaped like a womans ass and not a seed. Do you have pictures of said seed?

[@ryanratchford2530]

Robert Blume THATS another theory I heard of. Along side of the Greek guess of what the actual heart looked like. Several theories But the seed one is my favourite one. No pics because the seed went extinct thousands of years ago but it defintly existed.

[@robertblume2951]

@@ryanratchford2530 I know about the greek contraceptive plant but I hadn't heard the seed looked like the heart symbol.

[@bacul165]

Sounds interesting, could you give a name? Because for all I know, there was no effective way of contraception in ancient times, just various ways of abortion.

[@robertblume2951]

@@bacul165 siphilium or something close. if you look up greek contraceptive on google it will come up. Its not known how exactly it was used because it is considered extinct or at least lost. It probably is more an abortafact we didn't even know conception was a thing until late in modern era. But it was sold as a pregnancy prevention method and like a dozen other things as well.

[@alexnieves]

I've been friends with the same group of guys since highschool and we hug 100% of the time we see each other. Handshakes with them actually feel incredibly awkward rofl.

[@MrMerlin1896]

There are other consequences to sex, too. UTI's seem to be nonexistent in fantasy, despite the generally poorer hygiene present in a lot of stories

[@KnightOfFaith]

Bro ngl, I am not trying to read about a knight pissing needles.

[@asdfssdfghgdfy5940]

@@KnightOfFaith yeah I feel like this is getting a bit too nitty gritty for fantasy.

[@AnotherTurning]

The pregnancy one is interesting because most of the fantasy I've read recently has had pregnancy and/or explicitly describes contraceptives. Wheel of Time, Farseer, and Necroseam. Of these, though, Farseer was probably the only one I actually like. The others used the pregnancy as a way to almost cripple thr pregnant character, imo. So, I guess, I agree to include it more for realism, but maybe do it the right way. ~J

[@starsong7725]

Where in wheel of time does it mention contraceptives? I'm currently reading winters heart and havent seen anything! No spoilers please!

[@cbpd89]

I think it actually might be in Winter's Heart..

[@starsong7725]

@Chris George I think you just spoiled something for me.....but it's fine!

[@nathangreen4539]

As to pregnancy crippling a character, dosn't it kind of do that in real life, epsecially late term? Carrying around another human that's feeding off you is a definite handicap.

[@harpertayback8663]

Tends to be fairly common in post-apocalyptic events too, especially with zombies or similar creatures. If ever there's a constant global threat after most of humanity has been wiped out, there's usually a pregnancy or two involved (at least in the stuff I read/watch).

[@maisuchan6209]

As someone who's been stalked by my ex husband back in college constantly, I wholeheartedly agree with the stalking comment 😅

[@melaniev9446]

Yeah I've always found the whole group of friends pair off and end up together thing odd. Especially if done with younger characters. Most people don't marry their HS sweetheart; sure it happens but most break up, never even try dating for fear of ruining the friendship or just go find other people to date. Not to mention I think authors should explore the idea of loosing touch with a friend more often. Not have it as some background information but actually introduce friends that through out the story loose touch. Not because they joined opposite sides or had a fight or whatever. They simply went down different paths and stopped talking.

[@planetzdr]

“Love triangles are the worst idea anyone has ever come up with.” But have you heard of the love square AKA Rand central

[@ianbyrne465]

"Oh, I'm letting him marry a beautiful, intelligent princess? Pssh, fuck that. Let's go all the way!" -Robert Jordan, probably

[@thatnerdygaywerewolf9559]

There’s also the love dodecahedron (though it is used for as the name for a more generalized “love web” rather than the strict shape), which can get significantly more entertaining or significantly more problematic depending on how its done.

[@drlc6051]

Okay, but are the girls in love with each other too? Pretty sure that's just Rand with his harem.

[@planetzdr]

Ian Byrne sounds about right lmao

[@planetzdr]

DRLC I’m sure they’d be down to do the dirty with each other since they bonded and all but love? Not so sure

[@pegah_di]

I believe there should be a distinction between "romance in fantasy novels" and "erotic novels with fantastical elements." I see way too many books these days that contain a few magical elements just to be shelved as fantasy, but are really nothing more than erotic novels that lack the essential key factors of story telling such as plot, characterization, or any literary value. I can't speak for anyone else, but as a fantasy lover and writer, I find that insulting. In fantasy novels romance is a tool to enrich the story and show character development. If you have more sex scenes in your book than you have characters and world-building, don't call it fantasy. Call it "fantastical erotica" and be proud of it.

[@karichristiansen3536]

I can never figure out why libraries have these books by the ton when there are so many good storytelling books. Main tell is the covers.

[@pegah_di]

@@karichristiansen3536 so true. There are a lot of great fantasy novels out there and a ton of really good ones. But they hardly get any of the enthusiastic appreciation from fans that these types of books usually get.

[@prophetessoftroy]

I always loved that Tamora Pierce has such a straightforward approach to sex and everything that goes with it: the emotional mess, the actual physical mess, contraception, the way it changes relationships, periods, fertility/infertility, love triangles, unrequited love, the way sexual attraction can and often does morph into more platonic friendship, purely physical relationships, etc. She’s always been the author I look to as one to emulate on this front.

[@bourbonbear218]

My biggest complaint about sex in fantasy is the fact Jim Butcher refers to Nipples as Tips. I dislike that immensely.

[@avrilgloworm518]

that's just the tip of the iceberg, honey ',;)

[@tomasbosch9550]

When you have to make a KZbin video al 6, but you have to fight the Gauls at 7

[@claireabel7994]

LOOOVEE that you’re actually talking about this. Especially since you know you’re gonna get demonetized. So many people walk on eggshells around these things, even if they are important. People censor their own content because they’re scared of not getting money on the videos. That’s fair, if they make a living off of it. But still, I really appreciate what you’re doing. Great video, and you have a very mature way of speaking about it

[@ingonyama70]

I just discovered your channel yesterday (thanks to your struggling through the A:TLA movie with Hello Future Me and Merphy Napier). Hearing you talk about all of this stuff is weirdly wholesome. I actually find msyelf siding with all your opinons, and the opinions of the comments you quoted. It's also helpful to me in my own writing, which is fanatsy fo varying flavors, but also focuses mainly on telationships (due to my own life being consumed by the complex labyrinth of being in a polyamorous relationship with 6 other men).

[@CufflinksAndChuckles]

There's a trend of some Sci-Fi and Fantasy characters having their first relationship become a complete hit or a shoe-in. Sometimes it takes different people to find the right person. Sometimes it takes multiple tries with the same person (and hopefully some character growth on both their ends between each try) to find a strong relationship. Most frustrating to me is the idea that a character can walk into their first relationship already knowing how to be a good partner. Huh? It took me several relationships to realize that I'm an inherently selfish person, and it took some hard conversations over a span of several months to learn how to respect someone the way they want to be respected. DOY!

[@delphy2478]

just a shout out because of the pregnancy comment: in the Baldurs Gate fantasy game series, one of the romance options does involve the character becoming pregnant and later carrying a baby around with them, which manditorally takes up some of their inventory space

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

2:28 "where they can put themselves in the person" that's some immersive writing right there.

[@moev29]

Your brief moment of panic and the mini sex ed lecture when that one person mentioned pulling out 😂👏🏻

[@NimaFoell]

"I have a friend group" Weird flex but okay.

[@nasteho6614]

daniel talking about contraceptives in fantasy world youtube ad: how about one you put on your arm 👀

[@Erik-pu4mj]

We're improving. Thanks for the optimism, Daniel. I needed that. I need that a lot these days.

[@dominicafriyie6239]

I love seeing the reflection of the green screen on the Sword Microphone. Also, your use of lavaliers and cutlery is just *asking* for a pun I can't put my finger on.

[@IsmaPuntoDoc]

-I have seen abusive, manipulative relationships portrayed as a good thing. -What particular relationship from The Wheel of Time are thinking about right now?

[@loriannwhite8384]

Seat & Cloak.

[@seanassociateproductions1691]

Fucking Elayne and Gawyn

[@ADRooney1]

Any of them involving a female channeler. Aes Sedai are toxic narcecists

[@damaimon6246]

Fantasy, Sf, "real literature"...sex scenes are a mine field and almost always end up porny, political or arty farty, and overall cringe.

[@Damien-hr4gz]

This was way too entertaining. Best vid I've watched in ages. You're brilliant. Keep em coming.

[@TaniasWritingRealm]

I like this video. I'm writing high fantasy currently and have been struggling with how in depth to go with the intimacy. But making it as realistic as possible, the way you explain it, is a great guide. So, thank you!

[@terezat3071]

the love triangle thing reminded me of a ya dystopia parody i started writing few years ago (and never finished, as always) where the two dudes crushing on an mc realized that she's not really that great so they gave up on her and ended up together

[@shirasade]

I think I was spoiled early on because pretty much the first fantasy I ever read as a tween was Tamora Pierce - and even back in the 80s she subverted a lot of the negative tropes: She writes great female characters (who were strong in different ways), explicit mentions of contraception, the "obvious" couple not being endgame, first loves not necessarily working out, stories focusing on friendship instead of romance, and so much more... And the author has continued to learn and develop, for example in her inclusion of queerness.

[@ThexImperfectionist]

Totally agree! She was my first intro to fantasy and I never see her discussed in these circles but I think her Tortall books absolutely hold up having recently re-read them all as an adult. I don't remember any featured queer relationships though. Was that in one of her other series?

[@althechicken9597]

I really like in words of radiance, the accidental feelings that shallan and kal start getting for each other because that is SO REAL spending time with someone like they do in the chasam scenes makes someone grow on you, and then they get confused and start to have deep genuine feelings for the other person

[@Leos-Bones70]

tamora pierce handles sex and sexuality REALLY well for something that’s very easy to read YA. The main character of her first book series gets a magic contraceptive necklace when she goes to a healer because she’s panicked about her period since she’s pretending to be a boy and nobody told her this was going to happen. ITS SUPER GOOD.

[@coldermusic2729]

Joker does the “following the love interest” thing amazingly. At first u think that it’s weird that she doesn’t react to it with horror but with understanding, then u realise that it’s all in his head... and so makes sense for it to turn out like that. A creeps (in this case jokers) fantasy of a relationship IS the way the movie put it. I have SO much respect for that movie.

[@jeffreya8584]

Idk if this has been said but love triangles are one of those things that's romanticized in stories but a real pain irl

[@Askerith]

I really enjoy the parts where you move to someplace into the green screen background. Good work

[@launchedathousand]

About your last talk with toxic relationships, yeah seeing/reading healthy sex scenes in urban fantasy during high school made me realize I was in an abusive relationship, that it wasn't normal. So I'm a huge fan of both seeing both portrayed in SFF. Loved this video!

[@becklebooks]

This is why I love Joe Abercrombie’s sex scenes. They’re never perfect. It’s very refreshing. 😂 Contraception is noted in the Liveship Traders series with Althea, it was really cool to actually see it acknowledged.

[@jackinthebox1993]

Especially in "Best Served Cold," very refreshing to see on the page

[@archlectoryarvi2873]

Ya gotta be realistic about these things

[@Der_Thrombozyt]

Sometimes you just can't keep the milk in the bucket.

[@bribli2177]

Archlector Yarvi ....when you’ve nothing else lol

[@benjrc3611]

When you said “romance” right at the beginning I head “bromance” and now I wish that we were talking about that instead. Best bromance in SFF?

[@MetaI4Brains]

Fitz and the Fool.

[@Blueeyeswhiteedgelord]

I'm a sucker for Sam and Frodo

[@drlc6051]

Love those, but Locke and Jean must be mentioned

[@drlc6051]

Rin and Kitay, the Poppy War. Not as iconic, but really should be.

[@benjrc3611]

Not normally the type to comment on my own comments but I just thought of Merlin and Arthur form Merlin 2008.

[@daniellewade8688]

Very interesting thoughts! Some of your comments remind me of the video essay "Sex in Fiction" by in pacifica, especially about improving the nuance in how intimacy is handled. Glad to see these ideas coming to the forefront!

[@igormttgl6671]

Man, I'm new here in your channel and I'm loving your videos. Your way to explain and debate things is captivating, clear and funny.

[@outsidethewall8488]

warning: moderate mistborn spoilers ahead One of the moments i remember gaining a new level of respect for brandon sanderson was when it looked like Vin was going to enter into a love triangle and I was thinking "oh no, brandon, not you too", and then she went and killed the competing potential interest and i was just like yes. thank you. yes.

[@shailejanarain]

That thigh catch was epic tho lmao

[@n1hondude]

I only subscribed because I heard this book youtuber turned to not just any manga but literally THE two best manga ever. But now I'm staying for the other content as well like movies and such even though I unfortunately don't read much :D

[@owlsmirror1726]

Hot take: Most sex scenes in books/shows annoy me, they mostly don't add to the narrative. If I already know they're gonna do it, I don't need to see it to take pages/runtime away from the actual story. I'm paying for the story, not for the sex scenes, since due to the Internet, I don't need to pay at all for watching sexy times.

[@meeranhaq9479]

Another hot take: Having stuff "left to the imagination" is lazy and/or annoying, not everyone wants to imagine something in an already imagined world

[@MagusMarquillin]

Disagree - if it's written well and furthers some part of the characterization (probably won't further the plot, but _maybe_ the narrative). I'd value those scenes much more then the internet "relief" because it'd be tied into the fiction/characters I'm involved with rather then random actors - if you can find those characters online it'd be fan-fiction and I'd rather get it from the source so long as the author is competent enough. Course, it's also fine if they tell a good story with out much of that, which is what I usually find. Now, if they're really getting carried away with it, you might have found some soft-erotica without meaning to, and I suppose that's an issue with marketing/expectations.

[@owlsmirror1726]

@@MagusMarquillin You have a really good point there, I think those scenes can be great for characterization. I had mostly "Vikings" and "Bobby Dollar" in mind when writing this, that both have drawn-out, pornesque sex scenes without actual sense.

[@MagusMarquillin]

@@owlsmirror1726 I haven't read Tad Williams, but I've found Anne Rice can handle it pretty well, and from many angles (though I've only read her earlier Vampire Chronicles). Also Outlander (the show, so I presume the books also) features it a lot - which caught me off guard, thought this might be a bit harlequin - but it always seemed to help develop the characters relationship (and dare I say is also pretty _juicy)._ They handled it better then Game of Thrones, which was usually hit or miss.

[@owlsmirror1726]

@Greyfoot Yodel I wouldn't say horniness isn't legitimate, but it can cause neckbreaking tonal whiplash. Imagine a sex scene in an otherwise dark, historical novel. You read this scene and so go horny into the next chapter that is about war, violence and death. It's more like we want to let horniness stand alone, because it confuses us, imo.

[@shiitagi]

Katniss Everdeen have a love triangle that kinda breaks the norm.

[@ladylizcreates7719]

May I ask how?

[@shiitagi]

@@ladylizcreates7719 Peeta was the undesireable, and Katniss just decides to settle down with him because she needed someone who wants a peaceful-pseudo-normal life after all the crazyness. And quite a bit out of pity. Of course, the fact that Gale made a big oopsie also didn't help his case. It's a bit more complicated, and a little bit more nuanced.

[@ladylizcreates7719]

@@shiitagi okay I can see your opinion. But I personally felt from the beginning she was going to end up with Peeta. There wasn't any doubt. Which makes it the expected love triangle mentioned in the video for me.

[@shiitagi]

@@ladylizcreates7719 Hmmm... I guess he was set up to be the mushy I'll always be there for you kind of guy from the start. Kind of like the Jacob of the story, if you will. So I was thinking that he was too much of a mush to actually be with Katniss, at least in the first two books. Or maybe I've just been reading too much romcom manga where the main always ends up with the troublesome one, not the wholesome one who always stand by your side. Lol.

[@ladylizcreates7719]

@@shiitagi LOL. So true though with that trope - she always ends up with the cool bad boy. Done too much in YA fantasy. Like why can't she end up with the nice one? I guess Peeta is unusual in that way.

[@maaaate]

Completely unrelated to the video but I just wanna say how much I appreciate your videos. It really is special seeing someone talking about something so dear to me and creating a community while doing so - especially when books and reading fantasy are not talked about in my daily real-life. So thank you, DG, you’re doing an amazingly good job and I’m very thankful for that! Just needed to get that out there.

[@ActionMan153]

Elfstones of Shannara is the best love story in fantasy. Not so much sex but oh my God it felt so real, the ending of the book solidifies that. Thrawn Trilogy (Star Wars) had a great example how Leia even though pregnant with force sensitive twins, she freed the alien race that was enslaved by the empire.

[@destroyraiden]

I'm working on a book who has dual heros who are married but separated (half by circumstance, half by choice) and there are alot of women in the core groups once you assemble them into actual hero & villian parties & the heros may not end up remaining married, plus there will be male/male & male/female & female/female friendships only. So it's good to hear there are people looking for all that I was worried there would be little interest in just how complicated the core parties will become. I do agree that seeing some toxic relationship elements helps one identify, process, deal, or alter their own behavior if they see it and it's revealed as toxic. I liked Life is Strange alot because they have a toxic relationship between the girls I was in a similar relationship and it helped me understand & make peace with that old wound.

[@kammy6340]

Everytime he swings the sword I'm afraid he's gonna stick himself in his face. Thankfully he didn't. And like why does Daniel have so many swords?? Lol. Love your channel Daniel.

[@JCbeMe]

Fan of that shirt, makes you look like some scifi holographic projection - partially see through but still somehow solid

[@publicsiberianrice9172]

It would be interesting to talk about betrayal in fantasy, or sacrifices idk )) sounds like an important topic to me ! Btw thank you so much for the video it’s very inspiring !

[@sarahjensen7695]

Loved this video! While listening, I kept thinking of Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series. I liked how Kip's relationships in particular broke many of the stereotypes Daniel discussed. You certainly don't know from the beginning who Kip's going to end up with, his love life is messy and confusing, and his sexual relationship is an example of things... not going perfectly. I really have to hand it to Weeks in thinking outside of the box and writing some relationships that, to me, feel more realistic.

[@CupCakeUnleashed]

Gonna toot my own horn here. I've been plotting a story that deals with a lot of this stuff (poly relationship, characters dealing with their masculinity/femininity in a non-"man/woman bad" kinda way) This vid makes me want to write it more.

[@cellavb447]

Hell yea! @12:22 my "kiss the homies goodnight" issue got addressed!

[@t.h.mcelroy6597]

I really dig this series, keep up the good work!

[@th84lok25]

Figured I should subscribe after 2 weeks and 20 videos. Good channel and enjoy listening and watching. Love your knowledge and wisdom and you are funny. I was afraid you would be an activist channel but you are straight up fantasy which I enjoy.

[@qirinsylvanius6356]

Daniel "if you're going to stalk me, at least stay six feet away" Greene, keeping us safe in the pursuit of those we love and feel the need to follow around without their knowledge 👌👍👌

[@liamgeis4227]

That stalking romance one killed me 😂

[@nicholasjohnson5944]

Fantastic video!!! Thank you for this, as well as all your wonderful content- you are a delight!!! :D Also, I LOVE the background- so beautiful!!!!! :D The effort you put into your videos, your time and your creativity are so greatly appreciated, super Mr. Daniel!!!!! 🤩💫😀

[@lostboi2271]

I'd like to see both videos on specific topics and more generalized ones as well

[@CraigThomasBoyle]

I sort of avoid writing sex scenes because of all the feedback I hear from people such as those in the comments saying they prefer it to be left to the imagination. But it's weird how authors (even brando sando) will happily write graphic gore scenes and extreme violence but balk at a single mention of sex. Especially when most people on the planet generally have sex or are comfortable with sex whereas most of us would never dream of the butchery in most fantasy.

[@DustinWillis18]

Books in large franchise worlds can still be good like in DnD (forgotten realms) and Star Wars, and many others.

[@Luke-nn4pm]

Facts.

[@thierry8978]

The greenish bits of that floral shirt being wacky with the green screen and becoming transparent here and there throughout this video was pretty cool. 😎

[@wannabehuman]

[mistborn spoilers] I really liked the way Vin and Elend’s relationship was written. It’s been a while since I’ve read the trilogy but I remember they had a unique dynamic with quirks that came from each of their personalities, and their relationship didn’t happen too fast. The conflict when Vin had to choose between staying with Elend vs. leaving with Zane wasn’t my favourite but was accurate to Vin’s personality and also to the fact that relationships are never perfect. Ultimately they both choose to stay together and find a way to work with each other’s quirks. I like that.

[@Loganva]

I don’t really enjoy reading much romance usually, especially not sex scenes I hate reading sex scenes lmao. That isn’t a stance on the morality of it btw. Point is, I enjoyed the video despite my reading preferences. Good job Daniel

[@sheepewe4505]

Yup me too. The problem is that English doesn't have any words for genitals and sexual intercourse that aren't either childish, obscene, or clinical. This leads to writers using awkward imagery (moist wetness, pink mast etc) that is neither romantic nor erotic, thought it can work if the writing is intentionally humorous, cringey, or pornographic. I think that "less is more" when it comes to describing sex in literature, and some things are best left to the imagination.

[@singe0diabolique]

OMG! Oopsie, doopsi, whoopsi, poopsi is the cutest thing ever! LMAO

[@wiktoriamroczka42]

This is really helpful and educational for my book , thank you so much !

[@slammergirlj]

I was just thinking about Skyward as I was watching this episode because I recently read it. I love romance in books, but I also loved how Sanderson handled having adolescent characters but not focusing on the romance. The parts he does have in the book, no spoilers, are not super typical/trope-ish. I have not read any of his other books, but I was just thinking how well he handled a lot of the topics being talked about in this video.