Now THAT's a Cool Gun in a Fantasy Setting!

[@skitz-oh]

"Ah Intelligence build, I see you're a filthy mage..." "No... I'm a gunsmith"

[@borttorbbq2556]

Modified artificer

[@jomialsipi]

@@borttorbbq2556 In his case, modified fighter.

[@skitz-oh]

@@borttorbbq2556 is this lore from the show? I'm afraid I've not seen it friend.

[@SKy_the_Thunder]

@@skitz-oh The original campaign started in Pathfinder, so they homebrewed the Gunslinger class into a Fighter subclass when they switched to 5e for the streams. The main focus is the gun combat, the tinkerer/gunsmith aspect is for the most part roleplay.

[@RichtorGroude1828]

nah, artificery and a healthy touch of insanity

[@DoctorM42]

The problem with having the only gun in the world is that pointing it at people doesn't intimidate them as they don't know what it is. Which actually happens in the first episode during bar brawl.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

To be fair in a fantasy world anything pointed at you with malicious intent is generally really bad for you.

[@DoctorM42]

@@FoxHound-ut1hu people probably think it's a magic wand even after he starts blasting holes in people with it. Actually, that was what Terry said when he first saw Percy's guns in action.

[@void-creature]

Though it's heavily implied that guns are a thing, just exceptionally rare and not that well known...

[@DoctorM42]

@@void-creature nope. In the show Percy is explicitly stated as inventor of handheld gunpowder weapons in this world. Cannons, rockets and bombs existed before him, but guns are his invention. He often muses that once the secret inevitably slips and other people start mass-producing guns the blood would partially be on his hands. To delay that he instituted DEATH SENTENCE for smuggling guns out of Whitestone where he armed local army with rifles.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

@@void-creature nope, only after Percy invented them.

[@florians9949]

Warrior: my strength allows me to crush my enemies. Mages: my intelligence allows me to bind the forces of nature. Archer: I’ll hit you from a mile away. Gunner: pary this you filthy casual!

[@rafaelcastor2089]

The way AC works in 5e (System where Vox Machina took place)? They definitely are going to parry it

[@SKy_the_Thunder]

@@rafaelcastor2089 Not with Percy's mods they aren't. "I believe a 32 hits?"

[@rafaelcastor2089]

@@SKy_the_Thunder Bladesinger + Robe of Archmagi + Haste + Shield spell + 20 int +16 dex + Ring of Protection + Defense Fighting Style + Animated Shield : "Nah, bro. You still need 2* more points."

[@rafaelcastor2089]

@@SKy_the_Thunder Monks - "You know, by RAW..." "So in conclusion, i can not only catch the bullet, but i can also kill you by throwing it right back at you."

[@blizzardgaming7070]

Blood borne players: Pary WITH this you filthy casual.

[@Apollosonic]

The "amazingly uncomfortable grip" at 1:54 makes sense. It's the gun from District 9 and is made for an alien hand.

[@OmniDan26]

the point your head

[@Apollosonic]

@@OmniDan26 just being a little nitpicky, go back to beating up your son and trying to take over the world 🌎

[@gavinjenkins899]

@@OmniDan26 He got the point, the point was just wrong, skal screwed up the example

[@ababblingbrooke3340]

the two hammers might just be aesthetics, but also they could just be their for intentional redundancy. Taliesin Jaffe (Percy's actor and creator) likes to emphasize how terrible of an idea Percy's weapons are, and how they are barely able to function. And for those who watched the original D&D campaign, it's a meme how often they misfire, and even outright break. So it'd be very in character for Percy to have built in two hammers, just in case one breaks.

[@redrenegade7724]

Or in case he wants to fire with his left hand.

[@texasbeast239]

My understanding is that the alleged unreliability of primitive firearms is one of the main reasons why they are so rare in D&D games.

[@TheSimpleMan454]

Was gonna mention this. That was my initial thought. It could also be a means to pull some shenanigans we haven't seen yet, like an alternate fire mode or something.

[@nephicus339]

I think since the hammers are on either side, and not in the center, dual-hammers also gives the gun an explanation for ambidextrous use. Though I'm still trying to figure out how the hammers engage with the top central barrel in the first place.

[@rafaelcastor2089]

To be fair, the misfire rules were a really bad idea. Even back in Pathfinder they already aren't very good, sure Touch AC and all that, but if we're fair they are still pretty much equivalent to a regular Fighter Archer when it comes to DPR and you'll get to do FRAs a lot easier for a good while without having to burn feats and/or buy specific shit for it to work so the misfire was just a lot more punishing than Firearms were good (if we're talking about flintlock of course). So when they came to 5e and there isn't even such a thing as touch AC, the misfire rules are just punishing for no reason, so of course Percy was going to be a meme. But yes, our goth king most certainly knew this and thought it was funny.

[@deschaingames1851]

My reaction to the speed loader: “Oh my God! That’s so cool! This man is slick with it.” Skal’s reaction: “This makes no sense mechanically. Those bullets would fall out.”

[@rpgcraftsman520]

Neither reply is incorrect c:

[@void-creature]

My reaction was both at the same time, Followed by coming up with a more functional version for my own low-tech steampunk setting...

[@Secret_Moon]

Imo the loader could very well be functional. There could be a strong spring mechanism inside it, which could "shoot" the bullets and powders very hard into the barrels, making them stick.

[@kmcd6140]

@@Secret_Moon I wouldn't say "very hard," but, yes. The concept of pre-loads were being played around with long before proper revolvers. I don't think I've seen any multi-load versions, but I could see a ren-man like Percy giving it a try. Heck, he even had 2 or 3 of the barrels enchanted so that they would do elemental damage as they came around. In the show, we see Percy actually remove the cylinder so that he can access the rear for reloading. If he has a pre-packed or even solid fuel (powder), then he only needs the slightest lip to stop roll-out... Most of the time....

[@leonardobueno8456]

@@Secret_Moon There are two problems there. First, how much force will be necessary for that. Second, the acceleration and friction could generate enough heat for the gunpowder to blow up. About the solution of using a full-size loader, instead of using a big and bulky thing, it is better to use another gun instead (like the Quantrill's Raiders in the American Civil War, which used multiple revolvers), cause it has a very similar complexity, weight, and size.

[@SlyFireVR]

I'm so happy Skal is enjoying Vox Machina, hopefully we might get some D&D KZbinrs to invite Skal to play

[@dero4378]

Yes please.

[@vessaryanbernard7594]

Get Skal to guest on Critical Role please !! That'd be fucking amazing

[@karlmbeal]

sadly I believe He's stated before he just not into D&D I could be mis remembering though

[@calebfasnacht8698]

That would be so lit! Maybe Shad can arrange something

[@Sableagle]

Maybe OXBoxtra could convince him. Between Jane and Ellen, they can be quite convincing!

[@jeffwithheldforsafety8359]

One reason Percy’s gun has the wrap around bar is for when fighting up lose with someone with traditional weapons so he can block and parry without risking damage to the vital parts of the gun.

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

This. Taliesin actually notes those bars were a specified part of the weapon design with that in mind.

[@Rickenbacker69]

That makes a lot of sense! If Taliesin had been a gun guy he'd probably have put a front sight on it as well, but he isn't, and didn't know he needed one.

[@TheDaxter11]

@@Rickenbacker69 I don't think you need to be a gun person to know you need a sight to aim properly, especially when they put details like a hammer, a rear sight and the speed loader. Probably either just forgot about it or felt like the gun looked perfect as is, plus if the bar is being used to block and parry then if a sword or axe comes into contact with that tiny bit of metal sticking out to be used as a sight it (the sight) would probably just get cut off or damaged anyway. A bent sight is probably more of a hinderance to aim than just not having it there to begin with.

[@LoneWolf20213]

@@TheDaxter11 makes way more sense in that context

[@ejsmith7626]

I also love the melee option because its historical. The original guns were hand-cannons so the musketeers carried a second weapon for protection while reloading. When guns got small and accurate enough for self defense and normal infantry they added tons of melee options. Obviously there are bayonets but pistol whiping was more common. There were entire martial arts for using a musket like a club/quartestaff and they treated an empty pistol like a nightstick.

[@camelx162]

One thing about Percival's gun is that he's still kind of working out the kinks, yes it works, but (at least in the CR campaign) it has a chance of jamming or malfunctioning. I think this could explain some of things that don't particularly make sense, such as the gun not having a front site.

[@Skallagrim]

Especially since he skipped a LOT of firearm development by jumping straight ahead to a pepperbox. That's like inventing the wheel and immediately building a Ford Model T. :) To be fair, he had "help" and didn't come up with it out of thin air.

[@camelx162]

@@Skallagrim very very true! Appreciate the reply Skallagrim! Been watching for years!

[@grimm516]

I really like this video, one thing I would like to point out in the show percys gun dose jam and misfire a few times, if I recall correctly cr avoid overdoing the misfire thing because 1 time and 2 all the character have quirks from stream but would it make sense to hear grog say I would like to rage every fight or dagger dagger dagger it would get old quality The thing I'm wanting for is the gunsinger quick swap when the gun jams I hope is on season 2

[@venwin25]

Misfire is a stat attached to firearms in Pathfinder; which is the system CR was using before the show and conversion to D&D 5e.

[@Devin_Stromgren]

It's also hard to call a pepperbox a "proto revolver" when the oldest known revolver is the Stopler Revolver, a flintlock variant revolver from 1597.

[@dubsquad156]

I would claim that it’s similar to the gun Arno uses in Assassins Creed: Unity

[@FeedMeChaos1]

@@dubsquad156 Arno's gun. Thought the exact same

[@PatrioticKoreanAmerican]

No, there's a matchlock revolver made in pre-modern Germany.

[@quixotika3232]

For me the coolness comes from just the fact that he invented firearms in this universe outta hatred. I love when characters in shows develope or invent there own techniques out of hardwork. And the fact that he has his opps names on every barrel is just too OD as well

[@truthseeker7815]

Did you mean "OP"?

[@finn_mac_ribs]

It’s especially cool for Percy’s story and development as a character. Taelsin has said before that Percy has always anticipated someone copying the designs of his guns and mass producing them. Eventually Anna Ripley builds her own improved gun and reveals to Percy that she sold several schematics of the weapon. And now Percy has to live with the fact that he invented a new way for thousands of people to die.

[@aniquinstark4347]

I've always liked the idea of a gunslinger character in a setting with magic. It's a hell of a force multiplier for someone who can't use magic.

[@watyhu99]

And it's not too increibly Op to a point where it's ridiculous for the character since the character was human, meaning that he also couldn't see in the dark nerfing the use of firearms, and that the guns were completely useless in an underwater setting since the black powder couldn't ignite. It's great that despite how powerful the firearms are, they still are limited based on the scenario and environment. So we don't end up with the "then why not just give every character a gun?" argument.

[@thatonedude6598]

I keep wanting to play a modern soldier (U.S. Army Ranger) in a D&D campaign. Rifle, grenades, etc.

[@Hsaelt]

An extremely bad idea to have a combustion weapon against someone who can conjure literal fire.

[@Hsaelt]

@@thatonedude6598 very cool till your gun runs out of ammo with no way of replenishing it or your gun barrel just wears off.

[@petrfedor1851]

My bro did that in DrD (Czech TTRPG). There are two types of mana in this game, wizzard one and alchemyst one. Alchemyst are wearing their in coffer and is highly explosive and is use to made fire dirt, basicly gown powder equivalent. So he builded god damn shotgun with it.

[@BigRoofus999]

A CRPG I'm fond of called "Pillars of Eternity" had an excellent explanation for the relatively advanced firearm technology in their otherwise mostly-Renaissance setting: guns were developed specifically to kill wizards. Wizards could protect themselves magically from swords and arrows, but bullets would pass through their defenses. Made perfect sense to me!

[@TK4541]

It makes sense. One can potentially see an arrow or a bolt in flight. But a bullet is faster than sound.

[@stevenscott2136]

@@TK4541 Is there a "speed of magic"? If magic "photons" move too slow, they couldn't properly deal with a fast bullet.

[@TK4541]

@@stevenscott2136 honestly idk. I am using the logical assumption from practicing with both archery and firearms. You really can see an arrow in flight, but bullets, specifically rifle cartridges, are more or less hitscan (edit: too fast to practically see) The idea is neat that guns were meant to fight against magic.

[@Angel24Marin]

@@TK4541 It's funny because in sci-fi you can flip the argument to still have melee weapons in a highly technological world. Personal force fields interact strongly with fast moving objects but swords are slow enough to not being blocked while fancy edge tech allow to penetrate body armour.

[@TK4541]

@@Angel24Marin i know right. Didn't Dune do that?

[@TheLangenator]

One interesting detail I love about the series is that no one (except his party members) takes Percy's gun seriously. They've never seen a firearm before, so why would they be afraid of it? ...until he opens fire, that is.

[@ryanblake7114]

so percivals class is from pathfinder, as the first campaign from critical role i believe was a pathfinder morphed 5th edition when they started livestreaming it for the audience. percy is a gunslinger from that so he had a pepperbox and since that isnt a weapon inside of 5th edition it needed to be added by Matthew Mercer, so that's why it says this isn't official content on the dnd beyond site whereas it is on the pathfinder site. hope that cleared up a little bit

[@MGC-XIII]

Didn't Matt create the Gunslinger?

[@ryanblake7114]

@@MGC-XIII no, gunslinger was already a class inside of pathfinder matt just converted it into 5th edition when they swapped to 5th for the show

[@MGC-XIII]

@@ryanblake7114 ah like that. I just remember finding his homebrew rules for it. It's a fighter subclass.

[@Zebulization]

@@MGC-XIII that would explain Percy using action surge during the campaign. He often used it to reload "for free".

[@MGC-XIII]

@@Zebulization yep xD

[@МолчаливыйКлинок]

The second hammer is probably a reference to The List`s (name of the pepperbox) enchantment in the actual campaign, as 1st and 4th barrels deal additional fire and cold damage respectively, which is also referenced in the "Silver tongue" scene. Also, many things in the pepperbox design were deliberately made non-sensical to amplify the idea that it is the first working gun in the whole world. This is fun because Taliesin is a huge gun nerd like our man Skall. I`m sure he would enjoy this vid.

[@ryanschmidt3319]

Skallagrim talking about Percy from Critical Role. My life is now complete, may I Rest in Pasta

[@tendymancommeth]

en noodley penne, et fettuccine, et sapget tortellini

[@tiltawurl272]

Truly have been waiting for this for YEARS!!!

[@10Tabris01]

@@tendymancommeth Ramen!

[@danthiel8623]

Pizza and pasta

[@hallofguns8174]

That sounds sticky.

[@lucashenry6281]

As a current gunsmithing student, I can almost definitely say that someone has tried to make a pepperbox with a front and rear sight

[@BigPuddin]

"I need perfect sight alignment on this pistol with an effective range of fifteen meters. What if need to do some emergency target shooting?"

[@lucashenry6281]

@@BigPuddin more like fifteen feet. Guns in that era were...interesting to say the least

[@collinb.8542]

@@lucashenry6281 also are you an apprentice or doing something like SDI? I've been planning on doing gunsmithing for about a year now after I was denied entry into the army but have heard that it's not the most dependable job. Unless your doing it for a hobby ofc.

[@lucashenry6281]

@@collinb.8542 SDI

[@collinb.8542]

@@lucashenry6281 aah okay thanks.

[@kksmith244]

The Dreyse needle gun would also be fantasy friendly but more effective than a muzzle loader. A very long telescope used as a scope would look awesome.

[@jamesharding3459]

Oh, that would be SO COOL!

[@P.T.S.E.]

My guess was that it's a marriage between a Dreyse and a pepperbox. But as an improvement, it uses a striker firing mechanism to make front loading safe and prolong the needle's life.

[@Nerobyrne]

in the early days of World of Warcraft, they mostly used blunderbusses for gun models, which I don't really like. But, they also had this one long gun with a straight barrel and a scope that ran all the way from around the firing mechanism to exactly the end of the barrel. I have no idea how realistic/sensible this would be, but boy did it look cool. I still think that's one of the coolest gun designs in the game, even after 15+ years of new models being made. (Of course, guns in WoW function purely based on stats, so it's purely aesthetics.)

[@bonelessvegetal818]

none is safe from prussian glory

[@marcusborderlands6177]

@@Nerobyrne lots of early single shot rifles had scopes like that, even into WW1.

[@justas423]

9:21 in Pathfinder 1e and 2e there is a dedicated Gunslinger class which Percival initially was because Vox Machina was originally a Pathfinder 1e game. When it got ported over to D&D 5e, Matthew Mercer (the DM) had to make a homebrew Gunslinger subclass for the Fighter Class in order to replicate Percy's gunsmithing and gunslinging.

[@magnum32b]

I really do like what they did with the "Pepperbox" in Vox Machina. Most guns in fantasies are just alternatives to magic or fire the occasional special ammunition (like explosive or napalm rouns). Vox Machina seems to incorporate it into Percy's character. When he's laying by the fire and just spinning the barrels, you get this malicious tone as he just stares at the ceiling, as though he's seeting to himself. All the while, he cycles the barrels, the sound like an ominous clock striking hands.

[@Merilirem]

Yeah, they made the slightly more advanced nature of the gun into something quite spooky. The out of place nature of it only adds to the effect.

[@rafaelcastor2089]

It is the other way around. The way Taliesin wrote Percy, he was merely Orthax's pawn and a vessel for the gun, so it wasn't incorporated into his character, it WAS his character. Of course he evolved overtime to be a lot more than a madman with a gun, but we shouldn't forget that this was his character.

[@magnum32b]

@@rafaelcastor2089 ah i see. i didn't watch the original, i watched the Amazon series, so while i did notice a couple hints in the beginning, i didn't know the full details until they were revealed fully.

[@SKy_the_Thunder]

Interesting association with the ticking clock specifically. There's a quote from Percy when he reflects on his loss at the very end of the campaign, offsetting the insanity they had just endured with what a peaceful life could have been: "I think I was going to be a clockmaker, once..."

[@Swindle1984]

In Errant Story, there's a special guild of assassins/bodyguards/mercenaries who have a monopoly on firearms. Enough people have heard about them via rumor to at least get an idea that they're in danger when one is pointed at them, but most have no idea what firearms are actually capable of since they haven't seen one in action. The guns in question are late 19th-century tech, with metallic cartridges and black powder, and have realistic range and accuracy, in a setting where everyone else is armed with swords, bows, and magic spells. A wizard may be more destructive, but a gunslinger can get a shot off with a revolver faster than most people can cast spells, and a sniper is a sniper.

[@JoshSweetvale]

Orthax's posession giving the pistol infinite ammo was something I found really clever. It's an "unnatural" thing for guns to be able to go without reloading. It's also seductively powerful. Like, say, a sword that gets bigger with every cut.

[@CanadianCrits]

It's noteworthy that Taliesin has gone on record saying that his guns design isn't very good, or even functional really, which is why they break so often! 😂

[@Skallagrim]

Aside from the weird double triggers and the lack of a front sight I don't actually see any problems with it. As long as the fit is tight and the internals function reliability a pepperbox is a perfectly functional firearm. Not as good as a revolver (heavier, can't use metal cartridges) but not bad.

[@CanadianCrits]

@@Skallagrim I don't have the specifics, but supposedly an antique firearms "expert" took a look at his specs and said it wouldn't/would barely work irl. It's possible they tuned up the design for the show though? Mechanically (in game) his gun has a small chance to jam whenever fired, and he'd have to use an action to try and fix it. Until unjammed, the gun wouldn't fire at all. And if he failed his role to unjam it, the gun would break and require a few hours to repair. Obviously this doesn't translate to real world perfectly, but it could suggest a problem with the barrel rotation system?

[@littlekong7685]

@@CanadianCrits I think it is a bit of a circle really. Pathfinder (the system the gunslinger was converted from for 5E), firearms go against touch AC (Much lower than AC generally) to represent their much higher penetration, to balance this they added in misfires on 1-5 depending on action and firearm used, with repeated failure without repair resulting in destroying the gun, gunslinger class had abilities to mitigate this. When they converted they added in new lore to explain these rules, and designed the weapon to HAVE these faults to justify the rules conversion because 5E lacks touch ac, and thus no rules reason for misfires. So the rules say the gun jams on low rolls, and can break on a bad streak, therefore it must be a poorly designed gun, and this is the poorly designed gun they built to fit that design requirement.

[@CanadianCrits]

@@littlekong7685 Interesting, I don't play Pathfinder and didn't know that, thanks! Does PF have any in world reason why the jams and destroyed guns happen?

[@littlekong7685]

@@CanadianCrits Basically poor quality of metal in manufacturing coupled with alchemically powerful cartridges (beyond what gunpowder can usually do), or the usual flintlock reasons of damp/bad powder. As the gun is used, it warps. If it jams you need to spend an action to unjam and clean it, or you can attempt to fire it while its dirty/warped thus risking even more serious damage (pipe bombing it). Magical, advanced firearms don't have this disadvantage, but are very much setting/late game dependent.

[@Kokszo]

The reload thing might've been just the show trying to translate mechanics and character stats into visuals. If Percy can pull off 6 reloads during 1 action and each round of combat is ~6 seconds (and each entity gets 2 actions during their turn) he'd require inhuman speed to reload all of them in that time frame.

[@xxOnigiri99]

Also, magic. The gun has to be mostly real but details and quirks could easily be hand waved as magical parts

[@mrunaltondre6051]

Didn't they show a quick loader type of device 🤔

[@djcuevas1057]

@@mrunaltondre6051 yes that’s the explanation for him being able to reload that quickly.

[@zenebean]

Honestly the mechanics of early firearms is just really fun to learn about. I love that their particular advantages and drawbacks make them more of a "balanced" weapon in particular settings.

[@littlekong7685]

My favourite early weird one is they would have a fused javelin or dart with an explosive charge bag at the end, light the fuse, jam it into the barrel, and wait. Right up there with the firelances for creative and strange.

[@falconknight4964]

I come back to this video cause I really enjoy you highlighting these designs and making guns feel more in place within fantasy

[@cp1cupcake]

There were a couple of series I remember from when I was younger which dealt with some of the issues of gunpowder in magical settings. These books were low fantasy and dealt with issues like how magic would interact with the development of firearms. Even in this low fantasy setting, its pretty obvious that you do not want gunpowder near enemy wizards. A guy with a gun facing a wizard will find his gunpowder exploding with a single cantrip. Keep in mind that the trained guy with a gun might take a minute to reload. There is a character in it who become a hero for filling her saddlebags full of gunpowder and using it to blow a dam, washing away the enemy army. This was considered near suicidal despite no wizards on either side.

[@Merilirem]

Lol, imagine a wizard using the most minor magic to throw off the delicate engineering of your guns and the whole thing going up in smoke.

[@Zetact_]

There is a character who appears for a single chapter in the classic Orlando Furioso who uses a rifle (it takes place far before guns were prominent but was written when the gunpowder age was just starting up) and the weapon is treated like a wild item that Roland considers too fearsome and fears what it could do to the age of knights. It was described briefly in terms that made it almost sound like a magic lightning staff, but it is clear as you continue in the chapter that it's a gun.

[@TheCrimsonElite666]

One major problem with this is when you take in the factor that guns in fantasy might not need gunpowder to operate. For example, look at the Topaz Annihilator from the D&D 5e book Fizban's Treasury of Dragons. It's a musket that draws its power from a topaz dragon scale, allowing it to fire concentrated and unlimited streams of negative energy instead of bullets. See also any firearm that's infused with an Artificer's repeating shot, it allows a gun to self-generate magical ammo without needing to be reloaded, no gunpowder required.

[@siriusindustriesllc238]

Buddy, you know gunpowder was invented in 142 AD right?

[@elitemook4234]

And how exactly would the wizard target the gun powder?

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

For what it's worth, a lot of weapon designs and especially guns are much better in the designs for shows than in the final product, because things always end up simpler. In the end you can have the most realistic and elegant weapon design in the world, but if the animators say 'go to hell we're not drawing that much detail' it doesn't matter. Budget matters; you can have lavish animation like in Jin-Roh where the MG42 is so well-animated you can go frame-by-frame and watch the moving parts cycle on each shot, but you are going to end up with a Jin-Roh budget.

[@TrueTgirl]

Good ol' no-mercy Percy. Short version btw is that yeah, you're correct, Percy's currently the only gunslinger on Exandria. He's the guy who invented them in this setting and they don't start to spread out in any meaningful way for many years yet.

[@SKy_the_Thunder]

Except in the worst ways possible. As Percy said later in the campaign: "I'm sorry my issues have guns..."

[@TrueTgirl]

@@SKy_the_Thunder I know that, I was just trying to avoid spoilers for the uninitiated.

[@rburch20]

I know that Taliesin more than once during the character design for the show said, no that looks too plausible. He wanted them to look like they really shouldn’t work.

[@Gingerninja800]

is that due to the "occult" origins that was mentioned? Like the gun shouldn't work, only looks like it should at a glance, but is actually functional via magic?

[@RLKmedic0315]

@@Gingerninja800 spoiler: The gun is possessed. Or Per your was possessed and was given the knowledge of how to make a gun. Either way, Percy, the gun and the demon are all linked. It was actually a pretty interesting twist, and "plausible" based on the world and story.

[@Blazieth]

@@RLKmedic0315 He does create other firearms later that are not like that, though.

[@MGC-XIII]

I love fire arms in fantasy settings and melee in sci-fi settings. I can't explain why. Also, Percy is technically not the only one with firearms, we meet the other person in the show, but their game explained that Anna Ripley also managed to create firearms. Scanlan later tried to steal a gun from her, Percy wasn't happy about it.

[@VegetaLF7]

To expand on this, Percy was the one who figured out how to make them, having literally invented guns in this world. Ripley tried replicating his work but failed (hence her disfigurement when her version exploded in her hand, taking the hand with it). Once Lord Briarwood saw Percy's gun in action, he managed to tell her how it worked as Ripley had only gone off stories of Percy's actions rather than seeing it. With that knowledge she was able to correct her design later on and build the first knockoff gun. Percy invented the design, Ripley replicated it.

[@MGC-XIII]

@@VegetaLF7 I mean technically Percy only built it due to Orthax bestowing that on him right?

[@VegetaLF7]

@@MGC-XIII Kind of. According to the story given in his background origins video in the game, Percy began designing his first gun following the dream of vengeance. He was inspired by the dream, but it was Percy himself that designed the weapon.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

@@MGC-XIII Orthax gave inspiration but it was Percy who actually designed it. Only someone as intelligently twisted as percy could make it.

[@IxodesPersulcatus]

Our campaign had something called "The Cobbler" It consisted of a valve, a (magical) pressure chamber and a box of shoemaking nails. Basically, a fantasy equivalent of the Tommy Gun that we have... *sigh...* cobbled together from various junk and trophies. After it violently exploded during long rest, we've added an overpressure valve, the hiss of which has alerted many a foe to our presence. Still, the ammunition was dirt cheap, easy to procure, and the weapon itself has served us commendably, though rather through suppressive fire than actual damage.

[@skeepodoop5197]

"So you're a casual filthy mage!" "Yes... and I cast gun."

[@Gellert1984]

Theres an isekai anime about an assassin and thats literally one of the first things he learns to do. Other spells include "Howitzer" and "Rods From God".

[@captainservoofzetasquad4509]

@@Gellert1984 Arifureta? One of the two light novels I've read.

[@MagusDeathwind]

Going off this train of thought I always loved how they had a canonical explanation for why Dante never seemed to reload his pistols in devil may cry. Apparently the bullets were part of his demonic powers and he just magicked them into the chambers

[@TheHortoman]

In bloodborne bullets are pecial made of quicksilver and blood which are especially effective against beasts. This makes sense since blood has power in the game and scaling the bloodtinge stat has an appreciable effect on firearm damage which would not make sense otherwise. You can also sacrifice health for 5 blood bullets when out of ammo (or anytime really) which is also neat

[@AnimeRonin]

The home game started in Pathfinder, with the Gunslinger class, and it got transferred over to 5e with a little massaging, and from what I understand they chose that style of weapon because it shouldn't have worked at all but, hey, magic and whatnot, rather than using something more traditional and proven. I think it is explained in one of the watch-along videos they did.

[@nephicus339]

I can't wait to see Viktor come up in the animated show. He's an "alchemist" who works on refining black powder, which Percy frequently purchases from him instead of arduously making his own all the time.

[@AnimeRonin]

@@nephicus339 Viktor's one of my favorites and I hope Matt plays him.

[@raziyatheseeker]

Honestly, the firearms in Pathinder 1e are my favorite rules for them in D&D. The damage isn't stupidly high for a d20 game, and it targets Touch AC and has a huge critical multiplier. Mechanically and thematically, I like that a bullet is so dangerous it needs to merely touch you to hurt you. Besides, a miss can be described as the lead ball deviating mid-fire, just as Renaissance guns did. I also like that it's both bludgeoning and piercing myself, but gun-to-my-head answer (pun very intended), I'd be fine with just a piercing or distinct "ballistic" damage in something like 5e.

[@intrinsical]

In D&D5e parlance, Percy is a Fighter using the Gunslinger "homebrew" subclass. You can find the subclass on D&D Beyond. His pepperbox can fire X shots before requiring an Action to reload (X varies with each weapon), after which he can fire X shots again before requiring a reload. This mechanic is a concession to let the combat flow more naturally rather than the more realistic requirement of reloading after every shot. Rolling too low on an attack roll will also cause the weapon to Misfire and it cannot fire again until the weapon is repaired.

[@SamnissArandeen]

That last sentence gives me heart palpitations just thinking of the clear malfunction drill on these weapons.

[@reganator5000]

which is a port of the Pathfinder gunslinger class, because campaign 1 started in pathfinder before converting to 5e when the show started (which is why Sarenrae is in there- Ashley didn't want to have her cleric literally convert religions mid campaign, so apparently the Padishah Empire of Kelesh really does get it's missionaries everywhere). It's worth noting, because it technically means that not only does Percy have the first gun in Critical Role's world (Exandria), he also has the 'first' gun in 5e (because the homebrew class is authored by Matt Mercer- it was invented for Percy, then published for free when people wanted to know how to play a gunslinger in their own games).

[@virus640]

I'll add some more stress. If you roll too low on clearing the firearm, you actually break it. The weapon is then useless until you spend time and money to repair it.

[@mastertofu]

I'm pretty sure it takes an attack for him to reload, not an action. Otherwise it's very punishing for a Fighter subclass.

[@cavemancult1999]

Honestly I heavily agree with this, I'd love to see more guns in fantasy worlds. Also the pepperbox is I think in Warhammer + Vermintide called the repeating pistol. Saltzpyre the witch hunter has it.

[@samamies88]

One character uses multibarrel pistols but they are based on irl "ducks foot" (thanks for the correction Rudeboy), the barrels are pointing in different directions so they are more like aoe weapon. Was it same witch hunter that uses these? Or different character? Iirc repeating crossbow was in that game as well. (Mentioning these cuz these weapons are underused in media and would benefit from some love and attention)

[@cavemancult1999]

@@samamies88 Do you mean the ducks foot gun? As yes saltzpyre the witch hunter can use that gun too as well as some normal duel pistols or a pistol and a rapier. But nah one of saltzpyre's guns looks similar to this that I used to use quite often in it was called the "repeating pistol" in the game.

[@koticneutralftw7016]

There's also the repeater handgun that Kruber uses.

[@leetri]

@@cavemancult1999 The Repeating Pistol has the ability to shoot every single barrel at once too, however. So not quite the same as a real pepperbox.

[@thomasfplm]

Take a look at Iron Kingdoms - Full Metal Fantasy.

[@nolancartledge7451]

It appears that the double hammers actually do serve a purpose, one seems to rotate the barrels (either manually or when the trigger is pulled) and the other is an ignition source.

[@qwormuli77]

...That could actually work. If it wasn't a hammer but a manual cocking lever, I don't understand why it would look like a hammer, but in essence you've a really plausible explanation.

[@ianbyrne465]

@@qwormuli77 I guess maybe for ease of one-handed use? I don't know, I'm making assumptions

[@qwormuli77]

@@ianbyrne465 I'm talking about the shape of the hammer and such, which wouldn't need to be there at all. A bar or a lever is all you'd need for the job. But there is that part about the design's origin, so maybe this fall under the category of bronze casting seams replicated blindly on stone tools, which has happened in our history.

[@babzm.1666]

I am SO incredibly glad you’re enjoying Legend of Vox Machina. I’m so happy the show has been reaching people who aren’t as -obsessed- invested in Critical Role as I and other Critters are!

[@alzahranihamod3433]

Never watched CR before, not that i dont enjoy that style of podcasts but i didnt think i would have enough time to invest into it, the show really did wonders to make me more interested in itt, but still dont know how to begin or if i can keep up with it.

[@FromAgonyToLight]

It’s too bad 5e’s system is so limiting however.

[@babzm.1666]

@@alzahranihamod3433 Yeah, it’s pretty damn daunting. Personally I’d recommend starting with Episode 24 of Campaign One if you’re interested, but the animated series is already covering all of that much more expediently. I personally started with Campaign 2 (they were already 90-odd episodes in at that point) and honestly there’s hardly a session worth missing in that one. That said, watching all of C2 is INCREDIBLY exhaustive and it took me about a month to catch up, which would’ve been worse if it weren’t for COVID putting them off of streaming for a little while. Good thing to have on in the background during work or a long drive or something similar, I must say.

[@alzahranihamod3433]

@@babzm.1666 wish i had enough free time, but what can you do, right? I will listen to it as much as i can, so thanks for your recommendation

[@lciav]

Ohh! So glad you watched this show. Talesin, the guy who played Percy, really loves getting into the details with his characters. He put a lot of thought into Percy’s guns (and other inventions we’ll see next season!) it really makes it more fun when care and attention is put into the details.

[@addictedtochocolate920]

People in the middle ages used longbows to avoid a direct confrontation if they could; your enemy can't reach you and you can harm them, as supposed to both of you risking injury or death. It's not cowardly to use long-range weapons; it's been done since prehistoric times to deal with bigger and stronger opponents who you rather not face head on. It is not smart, let alone brave, to risk your life when there's alternatives available.

[@TheBaconWizard]

Yep. "Cowardly" is just shorthand for "But I haven't got one, THAT'S NOT FAIR!"

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

Well, the French didn't like the _cowardly_ English killing their soldiers with longbows before they could reach them in melee so there's that.

[@TheBaconWizard]

@@cdgonepotatoes4219 I think they were more upset that the longbowmen were low-class, killing nobility. THAT's not how it's supposed to go, peasants should stand-up and be slaughtered properly as is their place.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

@@TheBaconWizard either way, arrow go swish and knight go "aaargh!"

[@Riceball01]

Not just longbow but bows of all sizes and shapes along with crossbows.

[@aaronadams3589]

In one or two of the episodes during extremely close-up shots, it shows that Percys gun does have a front sight, but you only see it in extreme close shots. As for him having a gun in a fantasy world, well, without going too much onto detail, he's a technomancer, so functionally, he's not too much different from a wizard but he uses machines instead of magic, which makes him vastly different aesthetically, but not functionally. He's my favorite character as well, and I personally find him most relatable.

[@christopherbryan160]

Guns are an optional rule in the 5e Dungeon Master's Guide. I know that Matthew Mercer, the creator of Critical Role, made his own rules for guns, and that's what's used in the show, however.

[@ericotoole5335]

The class itself is a port of the gunslinger from Pathfinder. CRs home game was Pathfinder/3.5e and Percy was built originally in that system which provides some brilliant guides to it. Matt did a solid job porting it, the gun crafting rules/designs are more of his own stuff though. Pathfinder needs some credit here because it provided some insanely useful guidelines for these homebrew style add-ons, the system has so much in it honestly most players wouldn't need to homebrew to find something they want.

[@littlekong7685]

Matt Mercer and his co creators actually ported the gunslinger from their ongoing Pathfinder 1e game, a lot of the strange quirks (like free reloading, misfires on crit fails, etc) are artifacts of the conversion for the show. The 5E rules came after from Mercers homebrew in part, but is generally lifted from pathfinder directly into the newest system (open source, so they can't have it be its own class, it has to be a subclass [Fighter:Gunslinger], which affects the rules again to fit the base class).

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

I always thought that the brace on the weapon was a guard for if an enemy got into close range with a melee weapon it allows Percy to parry strikes without risking the integrity of his weapon.

[@zombiehunter501]

I can see Percy pepperbox working in a world where magic exists. In my current DND game, I'm playing an Artificer who uses a gun. Worked it out with my gm that it's a runelock, the idea is that a magic runes/Glyphs that make a spark serve as the igniter for the powder charge in the barrel, with a hammer and trigger being the action. Spark was a cantrip spell in the old DND days, entry level magic. So it made sense that with the existence of magic glyphs that can make a fireball shoot out at mere touch. Comparably speaking, a self refreshing spark spell activated by a small hammer would easy to make for a tinker in such a world to make. When you have such a thing like magical robots like golems and sticks/wands that shoot flames with a word, that making a magical spark string mechanism wouldn't be outside the of people's imagination in such a world. So a smart person like Percy could think up such a system in his pepperbox. Maybe the 2nd trigger is a safety that locks the other in place or a redundancy in case the first one fails. As not watched the show or CR, I'll just assume it's a prototype. In my own game, my Artificer is prototyping a heavy bore Nockgun for dealing with a dragon.

[@nephicus339]

In one of my campaigns, another player made a Goblin Doomstalker with firearm proficiency. The DM let him have a custom engineered and made double-barreled musket (to explaining why he can make two shots per turn); he almost never misses, becomes invisible in dim light as a bonus action, has very long range, and lays prone after every turn because ranged attacks against him have disadvantage. I play a Loxodon cleric, and in some cases will use my height and trunk to put him high up in a tree for overwatch.

[@imminentgusta1563]

Did something like this on a artificer sniping build, but the idea was a paper patch bullet with fireball inscribed on the paper and the powder was the material components. tiny explosion in the chamber.

[@SKy_the_Thunder]

While you could absolutely substitute for some of the more complex and/or fragile aspects with minimum level magic or enhanced materials, Percy's guns specifically are purely mechanical. He had two of the barrels on his original pepperbox enchanted to do additional magical damage (because of enemies that resist/ignore non-magical damage), but that's about it. I believe the only weapon he built that used magic for its main function was his shock gauntlet "Diplomacy".

[@Skallagrim]

I like the idea. Should be more reliable than even the primers in modern cartridge ammo.

[@windwalker5765]

What I think might be neat is to have a gunslinger character who's also the party's healer: they are an alchemist who crafts their own powder, along with the team's potions and such.

[@Bowtiedhillbilly]

I'm writing a fantasy series with a Old Western-style setting, and I am absolutely using a pepperbox for one of the main characters.

[@arx3516]

The channel "Forgotten Weapons" reviewed a peculiar 12 gauge revolver pistol, a custom piece decorated with brass crosses on the grip. It looked like a weapon specifically made to fight werewolves! I think that guns like that would be perfect for character that hunt monsters.

[@williamjenkins4913]

I had to look it up. That thing is ridiculous. Say goodbye to your wrist.

[@sim.frischh9781]

Gun Jesus doing god´s work once more hunting evil werewolves XD

[@soyhugo390]

can you give a link?

[@williamjenkins4913]

@@soyhugo390 kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6vMcnR7fJqmnJo The random names scrawled on the handle do totally make it look like some anime gun.

[@jlan7844]

Correction, The thing is even crazier. It is chambered in 10 gauge shells, not twelve. For the record, as far as I know that is the largest size production shotgun shell made. Ever.

[@herbderbler1585]

If you want inspiration for nonstandard old timey firearms that actually work, the youtube channel Forgotten Weapons is a treasure trove. Firearm innovation during the 19th century was absolutely bananas.

[@Grictalio]

I’m really happy to see this video! A few friends and I are working on a D&D supplement that we hope to make public that is late medieval themed, and one of my favorite early firearm types that I’ve been playing around with is wheel lock style guns- the way they were designed in order to accommodate the mechanism was often kinda strange, and definitely quite medieval. I despise overdesigned fantasy firearms- frankly I find those grounded in historical context to be much more fascinating, because often they will look way more fantasy by virtue of it being a pseudo-medieval project.

[@johnmullholand2044]

Even simpler, and less expensive IRL, was the matchlock. Less chance of a mechanical failure, and you can afford to outfit an army, as opposed to a small unit of, say, light cavalry. In D&D terms, 1 silver piece vs. 100 gold each.

[@Grictalio]

@@johnmullholand2044 Oh, matchlock is what we're taking into account more than anything. Wheel lock is gonna be more rare. That's absolutely the era of focus.

[@AcornFox]

Mob: Guns are cowardly! Archers and crossbowmen: *look at eachother* idk maybe they aren’t SO bad

[@Endarius_Termina]

Could the reason for the twin hammers be so that it can be used in either hand without issue? Pathfinder 1e and 2e has official rules for firearms but Dungeons and Dragons doesn't; originally when Critical Role Played their first campaign they were playing pathfinder but switched to dnd.

[@lisliaer7999]

DND does have official rules for it, they are "Optional" but official. 3.5 Dmg pages: 144-146 5 e DMG pages: 267 & 268.

[@witiwap86]

There's only one trigger. There isn't any ejection system, safety, or mag release that would be handed.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

here's how you can fix the right-hand left-hand issue: put the hammer in the centre and pretend the pan is internal

[@ryankunst668]

@@lisliaer7999 Not to mention the Artillerist subclass for Artificer in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything for 5 e, though whether your weapon is an actual firearm or some sort of magical device is left up to interpretation.

[@lisliaer7999]

@@ryankunst668 tbh I always forget about artificer.. I'm an old school 3.5 min/maxer and know how EASILY artifice could be broken so to keep it fair I try to avoid that type stuff 😆

[@Fenris86]

I love pepperbox guns! I played a gunslinger in an Iron Kingdoms campaign wielding two quad-irons, which is the settings version of one.

[@jaytucker7873]

Have you ever looked at Pathfinder TTRPG? In their world of Golarion there's one country called Alkenstar in the middle of an anti-magic/wild magic no man's land. They develop firearms because it's the only reliable way to keep the crazy magic warped monsters at bay without magic.

[@Retr0Whiskey]

Was about to write a comment about this, but wanted to check if anyone had beaten me to it - Bravo Sir, Bravo.

[@ericotoole5335]

This is also the TTRPG that Critical Role ported the gunslinger/weapon set from. The TTRPG added a huge set of rules for gunslingers and artificing on top of DNDs existing system. It needs more credit as most of the system was ported directly to CRs 5e game and provides brilliant guidelines.

[@kelleylafitte6503]

Pathfinder has a land for literally everything, and for what it doesn't have there's Starfinder. Numeria has technobarbarians a'la 40k

[@VicStrange9]

My take for an NPC on my D&D setting that hasnt discovered the joy of gun slinging (yet) he has a staff that he uses to focus ambient arcane energy and blast enemies. The staff has a knife on the blasty end to act like bayonets did for muskets.

[@mandrac2]

1:50 you can't realy bash district 9 weapons for being unergonomic for a human hands since those are gun designed by and for alien insects with 3 finger on their hands. It's actualy a clever design as you can see 3 recesses in the grip with one being the triger

[@robbiej3642]

To balance a gun in a fantasy medieval setting the are plenty of realistic weaknesses you can give to a muzzleloader. 1, They don't work when wet and stored powder is permanently weakened if it gets wet. 2, Slow to load. 3, Cant be safely unloaded without firing. 4. Loads may deteriorate if left loaded for long periods. 5, After firing multiple volleys the barrels are too hot to safely reload without risk of spontaneous ignition. 6, Bulletproof breastplates exist and something like the Pepperbox would be too small to penetrate. Can make it with longer barrels, bigger bore, thicker barrels for higher chamber pressures but this turns it in to a heavy 2-hander. 7, Generally unsafe, risk of spontaneous ignition, especially around fire or electric discharges. 8, High maintenance, esp. barrel fouling if its rifled.

[@effigytormented]

In the Iron kingdoms the blasting powder they use is a kind of two enchanted powders that when mixed together explode. So the hammers on the guns are directly on top to pierce either the silk packet or the case causing the powders to mix and explode.

[@Luccimatic]

"what a COWARD!" he yelled from behind his 4 meter Halberd..

[@MinersLoveGames]

The addition of firearms into DnD is always something I enjoy as it adds an extra bit of flavor into the world. I'm a sucker for steampunk/clockpunk style as well, so there's that.

[@juandemarko8348]

His sniper rifle and the second pistol are also awesome but the original pepper box percy has is the best !

[@the-wert]

What I find interesting is how many times firearms are somweat evil - one such example is in book "Men at Arms" by Terry Pratchett. Of course, then there is this pepperbox and I've seen this trope in other fantasy media.

[@slyfer60]

The reason for that is actually interesting. Think of it this way firearms are unbelievably easy to use they allow a common peasant to stand up to and even kill a veteran warrior. This then makes the peasants balls feel big. But this was an effortless power climb. He didn't earn this new sense of power. The process of learning to sword fight or cast magic involves a sense of self accomplishment and growth. But a firearm just requires you to point and shoot. This gives your basic bum on the street the same capability, the same power. Power is ultimately what a firearm is that's what makes guns so alluring, that feeling they give people. Power as we know corrupts.

[@drooskie9525]

@@slyfer60 That's pretty interesting! I remember reading about symbolism, (think pre-science human way of thinking) and this seems to fit well, but there's also probably a bit more to it. Humans see the world phenomenologically, rather than scientifically. That's why anything magical tends to be in medieval fantasy settings - it was the peak of symbolic meaning thanks the Christianity, but right before scientific materialism took over the West. It's what gives fantasy that enchantment feeling. Guns started coming up, it kind of represents that destruction of the old way, it is soulless, mechanistic, purely functional. In Christian terms, it is actually technically satanic, in a way. (You can sorta see this dynamic in the technology vs magic dichotomy in fantasy). Some examples are like, the faction lore in Rift, or LOTR with the orcs. Despite that, almost no one thinks like that in the West anymore. However, given its how humans naturally think, you see it pop up in odd ways if you know what to look for.

[@raziyatheseeker]

@@slyfer60 All I know is, there's something particularly fun about a pyromancer with a gun. Why not combine the shortcuts to power and use both firearms and fire magic? In all seriousness, I like that analogy though. While guns are certainly an equalizer -- hence that old saying about Colt revolvers -- there's also a personal price to pay for such hubris. At the least, what happens if someone's fancy muzzle-loader misfires, or won't spark the powder? On a bigger scale, firearms *did* become our preferred weapon of choice for many years... and utterly shaped combat and bloodshed as we know it. At least a knife-wielding crazy has to catch up to you, or take you by surprise, compared to a crazy with a gun.

[@melanoc3tusii205]

@@slyfer60 Actually, early firearms required tons of specialist knowledge, and a lot of money too, considering that perfectly fitted balls and black powder were understandably expensive. It was too expensive and logistically problematic, in fact, for guns to have as much popularity as crossbows even in the most well-equipped of armies. The longbow, however, kinda fits your description, as the French found out unpleasantly.

[@melanoc3tusii205]

@@raziyatheseeker The crazy with a bow will kill YOU just as easily. It's just more difficult (though still entirely possible) to defend yourself from a bullet than from an arrow, if properly prepared, as soldiers were.

[@Ally5141]

Arifureta comes to mind, when an useless crafter class becomes godtier because guy knows how to craft guns and other gear

[@ryanschmidt3319]

Taliesen Jaffe designed Percy's pepperbox to be completely impractical but somehow still work. Also if you liked the tv show go check out the Live Show. Every episode going back to C1E1.

[@knightbot4052]

I remember in one of the videos leading up to the release of the show, Taliesen said (roughly) that after talking with experts and the art team, they gave ways for it to be more practical and functional, or historically accurate, but he declined, citing the fact that the thing is supposed to be hilariously unreliable and barely functional. So he thought it all out, and knows how the whole thing functions, it's just not conventional.

[@ryanschmidt3319]

@@knightbot4052 I remember an old Talks where he mentioned that someone reached out to him about the design and was horrified saying that "That wouldn't work"

[@ngVAT579]

Fantastic stuff Skall! I love the attention to detail Talesin put into creating his characters weapons. Makes for much more believable fantasy.

[@WardNightstone]

the thing you have to remember is The List is THE first gun ever in Exandria, Talisin actually designed it to be Kinda shit even by early firearm standards in fact a few gunsmiths have offered to make him one and when he exsplained how it worked they all said "well that would be a terrible gun"

[@VegetaLF7]

Exactly, I love that it is so broken. The List is literally the first functional gun. Of course it's going to be shit. Later designs get better (I adore Bad News) but Percy is still working out the kinks on designing them.

[@melanoc3tusii205]

It's honestly a pretty weird progression in any case. Before we got to proper guns, we first messed about with various strange and wondrous weapons, like the fire spear (aka spear with underbarrel shotgun), rocket arrow artillery, flying dragons shooting rocket arrows out of their mouths (technically multistage ballistic missiles), and cannons, which were gradually compressed down until they became handheld guns, over the course of several hundred years, and people had invented gunpowder a decent bit before any wartime uses were found. As opposed to some guy going "Hmm, what should I do with this rather volatile substance I've invented (presumably there aren't any not-chinese in D&D to invent it five or so centuries before)? Ah yes, I'll make a modified 18th century pepperbox gun, and a 19th century revolver speed loader to accompany it." But I hear there's a more arcane origin in the show, which makes sense.

[@artemiswallace8716]

@@melanoc3tusii205 its more that exandria itself is closer to 17th to 18th century more than middle ages. they had an age of arcanum where magic was so well mastered that life was near enough comparable to modern day. there was a huge apocalypse that made them start again, but there was still remnants of that time, knowledge of what was possible. its also partly that percy was more of a clock maker than any sort of weaponsmith. his mind jumps to the mechanical and intricacies rather than simple practical uses. also, canons are a thing in exandria, well before percy makes his guns. black powder occurs naturally, and can be mined.

[@BB-ks6bk]

What’s cool about the history of firearms is that even somewhat modern additions that drastically changed the course of firearms history actually have their origin much earlier, but due to funding and the fact that technology hadn’t gotten far enough to mass produce these things yet they didn’t gain popularity until much later. For example, I can’t remember if it was 16th or 17th century but the cartridge was actually first created around then, they were paper with gunpowder and shot, and it allowed you to reload much quicker.

[@56815]

You could exchange all the barrels with preloaded ones. Then that extra bit Skall mentions you could put sights on can also help with structural integrity if expanded some. It'd be a lot less mechanically complex than some speed loader.

[@nephicus339]

The idea of swapping out preloaded barrel cylinders reminds me of Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider; which would make Percy even more frightening. The scene I'm referring to is linked below. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5XTm3qJgadlgLM

[@slydoorkeeper4783]

The only problem with that though is both the weight/size of all the readies barrels and a means of locking them in place. With some adjustments, the speed loaders that were shown would be more ideal.

[@56815]

@@slydoorkeeper4783 There are bags of holding, that would negate any weight problems. Similarly having multiple speed loaders would also weigh. There already exists cylinder swap reloading for revolvers, something similar for pepperbox wouldn't be that much of a stretch. But something really simple would just be a disposable ramrod with a paper cartridge attached. Push it into the barrel and maybe give it a twist and then throw away the stick. Lol I just imagined doing the same for a rifle needing to have a quiver of ramrods, but it shouldn't be that much of a problem for a pistol.

[@Ribula1]

I legit thought you were bowing before Percy like that one meme. "i believe in Percival Fredrikstein von Mussel Klossowsky de Rolo III supremacy"

[@BigaloMax]

Personally the best explanation that a series Has given to why you would use melee weapons over range weapons or just straight spells is world trigger where all weapons are made of energy but a trion blade obviously use less MP then constantly firing trion bullets from a gun

[@Merilirem]

Yeah that series did good on that front. The very material of your weapon was required for its bullets. Tying your stamina to the use of weapons is always a good way to explain why you wouldn't just use a bigger gun, so to speak.

[@SupahTrunks7]

Yeah! World Trigger has some of the most comprehensive and reasonable combat worldbuilding I've seen in a manga and I never see it get enough attention for that.

[@eldrevo]

Hey, Skal! As a game designer, I would LOVE to see more videos like this! Your content is a large part of my inspiration to balance realism with wild fantasy things in stuff I make, so keep this up!

[@vaquerojustice]

Hey, about that ramrod length issue, four words: speed loader of holding. Property made, more than one set of six loads could be held and delivered. Might explain a thing or two about Percies lack of constant reloading.

[@hawkname1234]

They're actually much better about reloading in that show than most. You frequently see him reloading in-frame.

[@vaquerojustice]

@@hawkname1234 That is true. I did like that they joked about it though, he has to reload eventually.

[@SKy_the_Thunder]

@@vaquerojustice Except in that instance, Orthax said no. ;)

[@Hotarg]

Except in the last episode (for spoiler reasons), I'm pretty sure you can count the shots and he never fires more than 6 shots without a chance to reload.

[@thewinterprince1731]

Percy bears an uncanny resemblance to a mage character I designed like ten years ago and this bothers me so much that I definitely have to see this show now.

[@kevinpatrick6080]

In Exandria there are many black powder weapons (in the form of cannons, seen extensively on ships in campaign two) and also fireworks. Percy is just the first to miniaturize the weapons class down to something a person can carry and wield. Doctor Ripley (seen briefly in Vox Machina) develops her own version of the design to great effect later. I guess you could say that Percy had let the genie out of the bottle.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

Actually Cannons came after percy invented fire arms, in C1 all the ships and defence platforms used Ballista.

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

Percy’s style: Debuffing enemies with trick shots like Winging Shot and Dazing shot, guns have artistic engravings and are a bit clunky. Anna’s style: Burning Grit on Violent Shot for greater damage at a higher risk of misfiring. Guns are more elegant and streamlined.

[@audiojack5641]

The two hammers are probably due to the character bring left handed but when he is possessed the demon uses his right hand.

[@corvent62]

Dnd has it's own firearm rules, but they are lackluster, the player of percy and Matt Mercer made their own firearms rules for a custom character class called the gunslinger,

[@witiwap86]

They aren't really rules as much as just a general you can homebrew this Well, I should say in 5e. I can't speak at all about 4e and 3.5 is debatable whether or not they can have it with all the supplement books.

[@TheBaconWizard]

I SUSPECT that 6e which is on its way, will actually be an expansion of 5e, more like 5.5e really, and will include more detailed optional rules for stuff like this.

[@witiwap86]

@@TheBaconWizard It's possible but I doubt it. I think the main reason they went from 3.5 to 4 was because with the open license there was massive bloat to the rules as well as them not being able to make as much money with their own supplement books. And 4 was just a huge flop so they had to move on from it. I think 5e doesn't have enough bloat to force them to make a new iteration and they control all the new 5e material so they can measure out the new books for maximum profit. I doubt they'll mess with 5e's massive success without a very large incentive.

[@TheBaconWizard]

@@witiwap86 They have already said that the next edition will be compatible with 5e, so I don't see how it could be any other way. I think Tasha's Guide was a taster of what is to come.

[@omok2]

Love this, adding onto the double hammers Percy's weapons did malfunction often on the show and were the first firearms in history. So a lot of prototypes and variations throughout the series.

[@axtondragunov1784]

Greedfall played the whole age of discovery setting very well where there are muskets and flintlock/Wheelock pistols but you mostly fight with swords

[@justas423]

Glad to know Skal shares my opinion on JRPG Weapon and especially Gun Overdetailing.

[@angryfoxzd5233]

Having a gun in fantasy setting can have its advantages might fall under the same class as a magic staff or wand.

[@michaelzak5614]

Got hyped as soon as I saw the thumbnail. GJ, Scall! The show is so good, glad to see it promoted in such a way.

[@kaip310]

The most important thing design-wise for firearms in a fantasy setting is the feeling that it feels of its time. If its the first firearm developed in this world it should be quite bare-bones and exact in its design; almost prototypal. If it's a setting like Final Fantasy or Eberron with firearms existing for at least a century it makes more sense for them to be embellished or to have additions that elevate their style. The problem tends to be fantasy settings in which "super cool epic main character gun dude" doesn't pull out a malfunctioning pepperbox but instead a sniper rifle with a scythe attached. Most characters with firearms tend not to ever comment on them, which is what Percy's character does so well in Vox Machina (credit to Mercer's help in its creation for CR).

[@jordanpease3329]

I love this! There are too many fantasy purists in my opinion who insist that guns have no place in fantasy because they are not "medieval" Yet, they are just fine with full plate armor, handcrossbows, rapiers, halberds, etc. which were all primarily used in the late medieval period where ultimately, yes, firearms existed! The Black Riders were a Medieval German mercenary group of Calvary men who wore plate armor and carried six or seven pistols on their saddles.

[@midshipman8654]

a point on the bar: one, a bar it liable to be bent more, messing up a potential sight two: it could act as a roll cage to protect the barrels

[@huntclanhunt9697]

I've been working on a fantasy world where one of the nations has developed breach loaded wheel lock rifles, using magically enhanced tech to seal the breach. The downside? Crappy powder gunks it up after 50 shots, and the rate of fire is near 10 shots a minute. So they can only sustain fire for 5 minutes.

[@matheusfiorelli8829]

11:04 "he has a lot going on" thats the understatement of the century my friend xD

[@darranhirose8153]

I mean, you could potentially get around that with a different pyrotechnic load, seeing as it doesn't look like it's actual black powder, paper patched self contained cartridge that somehow doesn't explode with an air gap in the chamber... But you're right it's pretty wonky. Also metal rod is steampunk. It's not as bad as attaching a gear.

[@mazz9487]

Matt Mercer's homebrew gunslinger (based off of the Pathfinder class) is actually a fighter subclass that focuses on Dexterity and Wisdom, making just 1 level in monk extremely useful for when you need the armor class and a free hand to reload.

[@P.T.S.E.]

There are some other really interesting firearms that could fit a fantasy. Like the 1625 breech loading wheellock musket, handheld wheelock mortars, Lorenzoni self loading muskets or the Collier flintlock revolver rifle.

[@hic_tus]

i love how pillars of eternity includes guns in a fantasy setting. and to make them unique they can harm spirits and pass through magical barriers and stuff like that. it's a nice variation of the same old

[@BigaloMax]

The best fantasy gun will forever be the Caster Gun from Outlaw star, it fires spells and each bullet is a different spell (theres even a black hole bullet)

[@Jorge-jg2jh]

Wow, seems VM is everywhere these days. Was absolutely waiting to see if you did any video at all on the series given its medieval-ish setting lol. Cool to see it happen, great vid Skal.

[@aidanfarnan4683]

I've always thought that if you have firearms in a world where medieval style melee combat is still the main form of combat, a handgun should have built-in hand-protection, like the lepage wax duelling pistols. Especially for cavalry who might find themselves charging into a mass of enemy combatants at speed and have people hacking at their pistol hand. You could even make the ergonomics of the pistol grip and the angle of the barrel match those of a straight-bladed calvary sword so it "Points" the same way if you grab it and draw it from the saddle using only muscle memory to get it quickly lined up on an enemy horsemen rushing at you, so it still aims to the same point regardless of if you grabbed the pistol or the sword in the heat of the moment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYjPcnyZrN2repI

[@lukatomas9465]

Historical pistols with the grip at the same angle as the barrel did exist.

[@stevenscott2136]

I don't think you'd have much trouble with hand-hacking on a handgun. On horseback, you're up high and moving fast, and since you can't aim well due to horse motion, you'll be doing fast point&shoot that doesn't expose your hand for long. On foot, I wouldn't want to use a handgun at all. Cavalry only used them because it's so hard to ride and use a rifle at the same time. Rifles are greatly superior, and can be used as shields and melee weapons while you're waiting for the bullet wound to take effect (and the rifle shot is more likely to give you an instant-kill anyway). So some hand protection on a rifle might be useful.

[@egoalter1276]

As it stands history has shown us what warfare in such a world looks like. From about 1300 to 1700 guns have existed as an aincreasingly important battlefield weapon, however melee was very much still present, and often dominant. And as it turns out, firearms did not have hand protection, even when used as melee weapons by heavy cavalry. A guntlet was a better option if you were planning on doing that, and if you wernt, you were better off with a saber at your side, or a bayonet.

[@heavy5013]

Percy is my favorite character so far. So we'll learned but with a terrifying dark side and need for revenge. And his monologues right before getting the last shot, so damn cool and well voiced by the characters voice actor/player. I love characters with either revenge arcs or redemption arcs. So damn entertaining.

[@munstrumridcully]

About firearms being "cowardly" compared to melee-- Anyone who believes that, imo, obviously doesn't understand what using a weapon in anger _means!_ Unless one is having an honor duel or something of the sort, where parties have agreed to a "fair fight", with all parties limited to certain arms, unless it's something like that, using a weapon in earnest is about killing/incapacitating your opponent while not dying or being injured(at the least, not _gravely_ injured) yourself! In battle/war/a fight for your life, there is no such thing as a "fair fight"! Any commander of troops worth his salt tries very hard to ensure any fights are anything _but_ fair by trying to use terrain, strategy, tactics, psychology, etc.. to gain an advantage. This is also true when it comes to arms and armor. I mean, any soldier who would take off his armor or put down his gun to pick up a sword out of honor and bravery because his opponent has less advanced arms and armor, imo, is a hero in a movie, a fool, dead or some combination of those three possibilities.

[@johnbenson3024]

I can add that the firearm canonically misfires often enough that a secondary hammer system might be helpful in the case of breakages

[@medramonmasquedecendres2966]

Crédits to Taliesin Jaffe, the creator and interpret of Percival. This guy is a well of obscure knowledge and he did his research thoroughly when making his character and his gear.

[@josemkay9272]

I always appreciate it when fantasy settings include firearms in their universe, because China had been using bamboo shoots loaded with pellets and gunpowder as early as the 10th century. Firearms really started to be utilized during the renaissance though. The ottomans using them as early as 1444, and Oda Nobunaga arming his men with them during his famous unification of Japan. Hell the Stopler flintlock revolver was invented in 1597, and the Lorenzoni repeating flintlock came out just over half a century later. Honestly a Collier flintlock would look nice in a fantasy setting, or even an air rifle like the Girardoni.

[@Cloud_Seeker]

Uhmm... Just so you know. Guns were already in heavy use all over Europe by 1350. Sure. The Ottomans became famous for the use of gunpowder, that is why they belonged to the "Gunpowder Empires". But the rest of Europe was not far behind. The Ottomans just had plenty of sulfar supplies which was needed for gunpowder. The earliest mention that large cannons were used to breach walls in Europe comes from 1374. Before then cannons were used as anti-infantry weapons and not siege weapons.

[@VexRavenhardt]

I've been a critter since I found critical role in 2016, and Percy has always been my favorite character. I am so happy with how they animated the pepper box and BAD NEWS! I cant wait to see how they animate Ripley's gun, Animus, which is supposed to be more like a revolver with a single barrel.

[@johngifford7725]

Vox Machina is an awesome series. I love how it works on multiple layers. Everything they do has more than one meaning. Love that you're covering this. I have a pepper box kit gun. I wish there was a way to send it to you. I'll never put it together and I think you would. Great video. Thanks for getting into this.

[@LoneWolf20213]

I thought having guns in a fantasy would ruin its aesthetic, but looking at your video and looking at mages with spells that are basically make nukes look weak, guns suddenly looked less impactful