Let's Play! - A Billion Suns by Osprey Games

[@willnox1]

Okay after fully watching this. I just need to say. This is "EVE" the miniature game. I love the small almost RTS like mechanics of this system.

[@ArthurBugorski]

If you like RTS-like then you should checkout Starfleet Battles where you emulate an RTS clock tick per clock tick...

[@richmcgee434]

@@ArthurBugorski SFB only simulates EVE when you're at 10% tidi, at least if you're trying to play with more than a ship or two per person or anyone new to the game. Not that SFB *gets* many new players anymore... :)

[@jeffjensen8]

I can't help myself from jamming out to the intro to all of your videos.. That bass is way too tasty

[@willnox1]

Ash, every time I hear infowars I just can't help but think "I HAVE THE DOCUMENTATION!"

[@shinankoku2]

Awesome!!

[@anab0lic]

Alex Jones as captain of one of these ships would be pretty hilarious.

[@JordVandergragt]

@@anab0lic If Alex Jones ever retires from whatever it is he actually does he should start up a wargaming youtube channel. I would watch the hell out of that.

[@ConkerBirdy]

@@JordVandergragt he'll 100% be against GW

[@patricpeters9716]

Time to break out the Firestorm Armada fleets I've been hoarding since Spartan went kaput!

[@richmcgee434]

Not much point waiting for Warcradle, they're dragging that re-release out to late 2021 at this point. And doing yet another wave of redesigns with notably different aesthetics, which was getting irritating even in the late Spartan era.

[@cptlazyjack]

@@richmcgee434 I am really looking forward to the FSA re-release, Warcradle make some great miniatures.

[@ghostwolf4354]

You and me both - although I converted a few ships to use in Battlefleet Gothic

[@Huter2142]

@@richmcgee434 There is a fan-led continuation of FSA 2.0 bieng run by one of the old Spartan dude, goes by Future Space Apocalypse, theres a group on Facebook under that name, and they have a (very new) Discod as well. I was looking forward to 3.0, but as you say they are dragging it out, not helped by the pandemic, plus from what i have seen of the beta rules, its not the game it once was, plus they have pretty much shredded the lore, and while the new lore *is* cool, its not the Firestorm we knew and loved.

[@Kevin.Mitchell]

I like the profit / loss mechanic, but looks like I'll be getting fired a lot. What's the year 3000 HR situation like? Will I get to keep my pension?

[@DarkKnightCuron]

I play mostly BattleTech and Warhammer 40k, so I don't know if this system would really fit my interests, but I'm ordering the physical rulebook all the same. Thanks! I'll still keep watching though.

[@euansmith3699]

I guess you could use it as a framing device for a campaign; with the winner of a game of Billion Suns gaining and advantage in the following Battletech or Warhammer.

[@DarkKnightCuron]

@@euansmith3699 Well, its mostly because BattleTech and Warhammer both have their own space-fighting systems. Still, this interests me enough to at least pick up the rulebook.

[@richmcgee434]

@@DarkKnightCuron You might be able to mine some ideas from it to modify Battlespace/Battlefleet Gothic - some of the contracts could be tweaked into interesting scenarios. Pretty much what I'm expecting to get out of ABS, stealing ideas for Full Thrust or Starmada. Gods know I've been using BFG scenarios for both for years - Fleet and Escalating Engagement are the most readily adapted scenarios for starship fights ever written..

[@Hundmathr]

Sweet, love to see ships on the table. I've played the solo game a couple of times on VTT and the profit/mechanic is the clincher, it makes it so you can't just jump in a bunch of big ships and dumpster the OPFOR. Striking the balance between enough ships and guns and not going bankrupt is tough.

[@coreychaves9505]

There are official solo rules?

[@Hundmathr]

@@coreychaves9505 Beta rules currently. You can find them in the downloads section on the ABS website.

[@timberry4709]

You could just use red D100s for 'in loss' and black D100s for 'in profit' (in the black).

[@dominicparker6124]

Definitely

[@PumpkinJack88]

I love anything that has spaceships.

[@shinankoku2]

I like it! The contract system is slick af. Edit: very cool! Seriously, the problem I’ve had with most starship combat games is ‘what are we doing out here?’ Beating each other up of fine and well, but this is just so much more interesting. It feels like a complete story. Not for nothing, the Megacorp aspect is just fantastic. If I play this (which is probably no, I’ve just got way too much going on) I’m going to reskin this as the Infiniry universe.

[@richmcgee434]

What games have you tried? Starfleet Battles, Dropfleet Commander, and Battlefleet Gothic are all heavily scenario-based, although admittedly some of the scenarios are "kill the other fleet under Weird Condition X" there. Starfire tended to be more 4X campaign based for most of its lifespan, although it started as a simple ship brawl. A Sky Full of Ships, Starmada, Full Thrust, Colonial Battlefleet etc tend to be more "build a fleet, see if it's better than the other guy's" but some of them (particularly Full Thrust) encourage you to create your own scenarios, preferably ones with uneven forces and objectives, along with some simple examples of same. I'd agree that many starship combat games would do well to have a little more structure to the "why are we fighting?" end of things, but the system here just feels very abstracted to me. It fits the background setting, but so do Dropfleet Commander's scenarios - and like DfC, I don't care for the fact that you're mechanically encouraged *not* to actually concentrate on winning the "blow ships up" end of the game.

[@shinankoku2]

@@richmcgee434 this is only starship combat game I’ve ever seen with missions built right into the game. I mean, there is no simple ‘two sides fight’ scenario. As an Infinity player I respect the hell out of that. I’ve played BSG, SFB (classic and new), and Full Thrust. DFC models look baller af, but everything that company does (Hawk?) is pricy and no one here plays any of it so ...

[@shinankoku2]

@@richmcgee434 it feels abstract? Really? It’s the least abstract-feeling starship game I’ve ever seen. imho.

[@richmcgee434]

@@shinankoku2 Yes, it feels hugely abstract to me, on par with massed-fleet-action games like A Sky Full of Ships but without the huge numbers of minis that justify the lower level of detail. YMMV of course. How you can say it's the only starship game you've ever seen with built-in missions when you acknowledge playing SFB (which has thousands of published scenarios, some of which are about as freeform as ABS) is beyond me.

[@shinankoku2]

@@richmcgee434 Ok. You’re obviously passionate about this. Let me be clear - I played SFB in college - in the early nineties - because every one of my friends did. Honestly, If we did play a different scenario, maybe I don’t remember because my head was down over a flipping command console trying to control a bunch of different variables. If you haven’t gotten the idea, I hated every moment of playing SFB.

[@redhoplite9316]

Holy crap this is an elegant ruleset

[@Ironfrenzy217]

Looks fun! Looking forward to giving it a go!

[@willnox1]

Tuesday came early???

[@agrayday7816]

Thanks Ash!

[@ConkerBirdy]

Where are the models from?

[@oldschoolfrp2326]

Gotta give this one a try

[@john88benson]

Fast space race? Did they greenlight Project Orion? ;)

[@SpannSr1970]

Thanks Ash. ‘Nuff said!

[@underscore3338]

so... C-Corp for Cooler... did Owen win without even playing the game?

[@RealMrTea]

Hi, not 100% sure (English is not my first language) but I have understand the duds (max value of a dice) to be okay to reroll, but not affected by +1/-1 and always a dud if not rerolled.

[@KristovMars]

So excite!

[@49SABRES]

Can’t wait to try this game out! But also can’t wait for the promised episode of infowarhammer! Karl Franz kissed a goblin and that’s why rat people live under nuln. I have the documents!

[@CornishCrusade]

THEY'RE PUTTING POTIONS IN THE WATER THAT TURNS THE FRICKIN PRINCESSES INTO FROGS

[@richmcgee434]

Follow the wyrdstone. :)

[@nosywendigo592]

By the way, Karl Franz impregnated a Hafling and soon, there will be a monstrosity of a son who will lead the Empire into chaos only to be stopped by Elven Wardancers hopped up on Elferoin. Yes, I do have the documents, man. Sorry, but I have you beat.

[@maxxon99]

I just tried this myself last night. I thought the revenue was card value times number of players (not game scale). Scale comes in with having more and higher cards.

[@RowdiesFan1]

I think it's a neat game. Not sure I'll get it at launch, but I'll keep an eye on your future batreps to see how it plays.

[@Phoenikuz]

Looks interesting, but also really boardgamey. Look forward to hear Owen's take on it as well :)

[@cell32005]

Was just going to say that switching the somewhat unsatisfactory free movement for marked sub-sectors would turn this into a very competent space economics boardgame ... Was really looking forward to this title after the disruptive gem that is Gaslands, but I really wish it had a bit more meat on the whole space warfare part ...

[@cell32005]

Would make an interesting post-covid drinking/socializing game though; get a group od friends, sit around a few tables at the pub and in place of mission objectives place shot glasses and other beverages; when you "scan" one you get to drink it. Meanwhile you "jump" from table to table and the lowest credit foots the bill at the end.

[@Phoenikuz]

@@cell32005 Oh yeah, fully agree! This game would really have benefitted from some sort of hexmat or similar playing area, rather than freeform movement. Especially with all of the stuff going on - it looks interesting, and I'll give it a try, but I doubt it'll scratch my itch for a spaceship wargame unfortunately.

[@cell32005]

@@Phoenikuz yeah same on that itch. Looks like a hex mat would turn all the painful "bubble" micro measuring into an actual game of watching for the overlapping zones on the grid ...

[@popandlochnessie]

@@cell32005 I think a large scale game would better provide that, more ships on the table means more combat

[@Ironfrenzy217]

Where did you get those hex jumpgate tokens?

[@leesweeney8879]

Always planning and reacting to the other players.

[@benjaminnadeau7305]

Where are these flight stands from? Brigade doesnt seem to have different sizes

[@kylerovagug2005]

No idea where to source minis that aren't just star wars. Guess I need to join the fb group for the game and see what's up.

[@thickasmud]

Dropfleet commander minis are good. There are also some firefly and Battle Star Galactic a models. Just use any space battle game models.

[@iceniwargames6347]

Dropfleet commander resistance fleet box, hundreds of ways to put them together.

[@richmcgee434]

Starship Combat News is out of date after 7 years with no updates, but it's still a pretty good nexus site for starship minis manufacturers, and the message boards will generally still get you some suggestions if you ask around there and don't mind waiting. Personally, I'd recommend looking at Ground Zero Games, Brigade Models (obviously...it's what Ash is using here), Vanguard miniatures (for a more Battlefleet Gothic aesthetic), and silent-death.mx for the venerable but expansive Silent Death figure range. That's just scratching the surface - there are thousands of starship minis out there from all sorts of companies.

[@richmcgee434]

@@iceniwargames6347 Thousands if you invest in their space station box and do some kitbashing. Those two box sets ought to let ABS players build multiple fleets with ease.

[@leonleese4919]

Is there a solo play scenario.?.

[@Dragon-ig2me]

Nice one ash

[@asellers98]

"Battlegroups may not jump into a position that is less than 10" from a Planetoid." So the first jump in by the station looks illegal.

[@lt.qwerty6146]

what kind of bases did you use? and did you have any tipping problems due to weight?

[@mythrando]

Thank you for doing this review Ash! A Billion Suns is easily my most anticipated game of the past few years. :) On the topic of Patreon, it lists $1 per battle report posted. How much is that coming out to per month? Thank you again for all that you do!

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

You set a cap on the second screen of whatever you’re comfortable with! :)

[@ericforster2970]

Nice video, but duds are always duds, even if they would otherwise hit or might be modified to hit (20:20)

[@zenkinet1]

party game? huh?

[@richmcgee434]

34:18 You rolled 5d6 instead of 6d6 there, probably costing yourself a kill. Interesting to see some of the changes since I gave up on the playtest, but this still isn't my cup of tea. Maybe the solo play vid will change my mind somehow.

[@torymiddlebrooks]

I'm terribly curious what you decided to pass on.

[@richmcgee434]

@@torymiddlebrooks It's not what I want in a starship combat game. The ships, weapons, and combat mechanics are far too abstracted for the number of figs you're using, and I'm not attracted by the very boardgame-y (which is not a word) contract system at all. The game's not really about starship fights, it's about scoring contracts, many of which actively encourage you *not* to fight each other, just race for profit. It's kind of the same issue (but worse) that I have with Dropfleet Commander - in most scenarios that game is ultimately about putting troops where you want them, and beating the other guy's fleet is a sideshow that does very little to win the game. I get that both designs are doing what they were meant to do. It's just that what they're doing doesn't appeal to me. I'm not 100% done with ABS yet, and may pick it up just to mine for ideas to use in more versatile rules systems like Full Thrust or Starmada or (perhaps the best fit due to similar levels of abstraction) A Sky Full of Ships. Come to think of it, I wonder if I can find a copy of Thane's Games' old Battlespace rules online. My copy died in a hard drive crash, but it might make another good frame to graft some ABS ideas to.

[@torymiddlebrooks]

@@richmcgee434 I couldn't find saying the games battle space rules. I could only find the generic space combat too. Would that be interesting to you?

[@richmcgee434]

@@torymiddlebrooks Actually have them printed out still. GSC was pretty good IMO, but I always had a soft spot for Thane's designs. Wonder what he's up to these days...

[@tabletophobbystop]

Where are the ships from? Maybe I missed it but in my first watch I remember you stating where you purchased the ships from but I couldn't find it again.

[@tabletophobbystop]

Brigade Models, figured it out! Lol

[@commodusleitdorf2726]

Ah so EVE Online without the spreadsheets, but still a corporate murder simulator. Gotcha

[@TehSquare]

Aw man, I need to print out some EVE Online ships for this

[@CornishCrusade]

@@TehSquare are there any Eve Online ships on Shapeways or similar?

[@TehSquare]

@@CornishCrusade There's some on Thingiverse might take a bit of work to change them to fit on flight stands and scale them right

[@anab0lic]

you need some kind of sci fi themed deck of cards.

[@adammelendez3355]

Where are the minis from?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Brigade Models!

[@housecaldwell]

Is there any benefit to actually trying to protect your ships or destroy the opponents? It seems like at end of game you should get back in credits what isn't destroyed. I have played the playtest and this plus the game time limits are what really bug me. I'll still probably buy it but that feedback was given by several people during playtesting and it doesn't look like anything changed.

[@asellers98]

The cost to send ships is best thought of as salary. So you would not get that back.

[@joshwomack1954]

Hmm, interesting mechanics but not to my tastes.

[@BrisCassa]

Aww no Owen for breaking the game colour commentary?

[@BrisCassa]

Yeah this looks great

[@regdab7190]

Oh god I made mistakes watching this... *shakes fist at Ash*

[@MrAbsurdSisyphus]

Hi Ash. This is awesome, love your content and love the channel. Picked up the game at launch, 3D ships printed with other goodies and ordered the contract cards from MakePlayingCards.com. Rules clarification question please if you know: you use a CMD token for the tactical command effect Power to the Weapon Systems for the fighters (Mass zero). As written, it states ‘spend up to M CMD tokens from Tactical to subtract etc...’. If the fighter is M zero does this mean you cannot use the ability for the fighters or any other M zero ship?

[@battlemind]

If you like making Excel macros, this game is for you. But I don't. Gonna give this one a miss, which is a shame bc I'm a big fan/player of Osprey systems.

[@richmcgee434]

I'm not a big fan of what I've seen and playtested (prerelease) of this game either, but I have no idea where you're getting the Excel macro complaint from. Elucidate, please.