Let's Talk About Conn Smythe

He was a divisive figure in NHL history. It's possible the trophy's name gets changed, of course.
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[@ollilund5360]

I would think that the reason why nhl is not very willing to chance trophy names is that they want To save themself from the conversations that why was this guys name picked and not this guy. Modern fans do not know these ancient hockey names and their life stories nor care about them.

[@rontrabaroe4247]

Removing his name from the trophy would be strange. Trophy is a weird trophy name.

[@alecholland]

The “You’re a pretty good hockey player” Trophy

[@JPS47]

@@alecholland The "best player in the Stanley cup final" Trophy

[@doubledouble4g379]

@@davidgreen3001 The Political Correctness Trophy. Or you could just call it the Patrick Roy Trophy since he's the only one to win it 3 times.

[@ExplosionGaming99]

They’d probably change it to the person who won it the most or just a player. Like the nba creating the Magic Johnson and Larry Bird Trophies.

[@DucksUpDogsDownCatsSlide]

What if they just called it The Maple Leaf Gardens trophy?

[@brientaylorcohen]

Don't change the names of the trophies. It will just get sold to corporate interest and you'll have the Rogers Playoff MVP Presented by Taco Bell

[@williampgalloway]

no change on the trophy names, I could care less what old people did and say over 50 years ago. people need to grow up

[@theawayfan6052]

Tremendous. The History Segments are my favorite, always learn something you didn't know. Many thanks Shannon

[@dbassman27]

I would take his name off the award. On the other hand, he was a patriot and fought against the Nazis in WW 2. Built Maple Leaf Gardens in the depression and provided work for a lot of people.

[@MegaIndecisive]

Good series, if this is the first of one. :) I'm in the camp of getting named after some of the hockey greats. And getting an award for defensive defenseman.

[@fishbomb6378]

People need to realize that yes not every historical figure was exactly up to date with current societal standards and you can criticize them for that but that does not diminish some of their great accomplishments in life. You are allowed to recognize both without trying to change or erase history.

[@BoyNamedSue4]

I wouldn’t change the name for simple fact that nobody is going to agree on what to rename it to.

[@SteveOnTheEastCoast]

Thank you for creating this "reevaluation" Playlist. I would never have thought to look these particular gentlemen up.

[@soonerfan4321]

Thank you THG for doing these history videos. As a newer fan to the NHL (2020), it has really helped me connect with the league and understand where it has come from. I really enjoy you talking about these figures from the past and how they shaped the league we know today. It has inspired me to do my own research as well. Thank you for your work and your passion for hockey.

[@treycarmichael3605]

Love your hockey history profiles. Keep em coming!

[@yammie75]

The NHL can't just re-name the Conn Smythe Trophy. Essentially, the trophy is described as a brass miniature of Maple Leaf Gardens with a large brass maple leaf behind it, sitting atop a three-tiered wooden base. Who or what else could it be named after? Smythe got the Gardens built in 6 1/2 months in 1931. Built during the Great Depression AND was an engineering marvel. For sure, that factored in to the league creating the trophy in the first place. No, the league would have to RETIRE the trophy, instead, and create a new one. Is this really palatable? I'm a Leaf fan and I'm prejudiced to say that (aside from Lord Stanley's Mug) the Conn Smythe Trophy is the most beautiful trophy an individual can earn, never mind being one of the most important trophies a player can earn, MVP of the Playoffs. And I love that sometimes the award is "won" in the final round (somebody stepped-up BIG-time) and sometimes it is won by a member of the losing team (5 times ever, 3 of them goalies), and usually it is given to the obvious choice on the winning team (Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Patrick Roy, et al). It's a great award that deserves a great trophy, and that's what we have here. Leave sh*t alone. Also, thank you very much, Shannon, for contextualizing Smythe's "Herb Carnegie" comment. Societal norms and pressures were so very different then, and your younger viewers need that point mentioned so they can process the issue more completely and thoughtfully. Things like that are better today, and aim to improve, still. Go Leafs, Go!!! (or as the Rock would say, "Lets Go, Leafs!!!)

[@HandsomeDanVacationRentals]

I really love the deep dive Shannon! Thanks so much for doing this :)

[@isaacwest276]

As a history fan I believe in honoring the importance of people, especially those like Conn Smythe so I appreciate the league honoring him. With that said, I also don't mind renaming the trophies after players so long as it's not done in a manner of "forget these old guys." I don't think anybody can agree with everything Smythe said, but in the end he was a winner, a charitable man, and a dutiful man. Not many people can say they survived fighting both world wars, let alone also managing a very important hockey club at the same time. Again, I'm not defending everything he said or did of course, but you can't argue with his greatness. Plus, most importantly, he wasn't Harold Ballard.

[@blackenedmagic888]

Really good video, Shannon. Of course, being a long-time Maple Leafs' fan (about 50 years now), I knew about everything you talked about but it's still informative. That said, I don't agree with renaming NHL trophies for something one of the owners, etc. said eighty four years ago. Like it or not, the world was a much different place back then and what he said was the prevailing attitude at the time - even though it was very much wrong. From my own experience, it took many years for our family and our family's friends to break my grandmother (who passed away last year at 101 years old) of her habit of calling black people the "N-word". This was a woman who was beloved and respected by her community and very rarely had anything bad to say about anyone - unless they absolutely deserved it. As unfortunate as her use of the "N-word" was, it wasn't meant to be derogatory - it's just what EVERYONE in her community called black people at the time. On a similar note, I also don't agree with removing statues of Sir John A. either - he had some faults (some of them fairly serious by modern standards), but like many others, he was a product of his time, not to mention one of the most important Fathers of Confederation - to downplay his importance to Canadian history is to pretty much like trying to rewrite our history to fit someone's narrative.

[@kamerad4749]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[@stevewhite1377]

Couldn’t agree more, if you remove bad parts of history then people are more likely to repeat those mistakes, plus why is it ok to learn about some history but others not so much? In the Uk there all for tearing down statues of people from the past, I’d say better to educate people about what they did and how times have changed than remove them

[@AJCsmom]

Very well stated! Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I’m sure a hundred years from now people will feel the same way about our generations.

[@K-M0]

Just finished the Harold Ballard documentary on CBC.....this is just as good.

[@mactheknife7049]

Is this available online somewhere, where us ugly 'Muricans could view it? I'd love to see it.

[@K-M0]

@@mactheknife7049 Sorry bud, not entirely sure.

[@johnalwell5795]

Thanks for doing this I learned a lot

[@Marty-72]

Wow i really didn't know that thanks alot Shannon 🍻 knowing all this they should definitely take it off!! he doesn't deserve that honor that insane

[@JD200_]

Keep the current names. If they change them it will be to the "NHL playoffs MVP, presented by Kia" or some other cooperative name

[@SverigeiSverige]

👍 Kia 🤮

[@Beardedwelder14]

Loved the video me being new to hockey your channel has helped alot with learning the rules and history of such a great sport

[@20thCenturyManTrad]

Conn Smythe is one of my all time heroes, flawed as all men are, he built a great organization, he was a Canadian maverick, a patriot, and one of hockey's greatest of all time. I still doubt the whole Carnegie quote, but even if it is true, it was 1938, and he was not one who spoke out against Willie O'Ree's entry into the NHL, in fact there was no legitimate color barrier in the NHL it came by natural growth of the game. He named George Armstrong as the future team captain, a Canadian Native because of leadership, not on skin. Smythe did care about winning cups and money, but he wasn't like Ballard, he didn't sacrifice sport for money, he cared about his hockey team, his nation. Ballard burned tradition, Smythe sustained tradition, those cup pendants would never have seen paint drips, nor Hewitt's gondola see the incinerator. Bob Haggert the Leafs' trainer in the 60s stated of him, that he always gave a day for his employees in the summer, which they could drink, eat, as much as they wanted and they could say whatever they wanted about the Boss, it was for any Maple Leaf Gardens staff member from the lowest worker to the players. When his horse won the Queen's Plate, he kept the bottle of Champagne he received from the presentation along with splitting purse with them. He didn't like unionization sure, but even guys who opposed him on the issue respected him, such as Gus Mortson, said as much in later years on a Leaf's TV segment. Overall Smythe was a darn fine hockey man, a war hero, a man who came from nothing to build Canada's team as it stands, and was a great man. We don't respect our elders anymore, we tear them down by our outrage because we have created a new morality and accomplish nothing. The people trying to tear down Conn Smythe couldn't do any of the great things he did, start from nothing but build an entire organization from a floundering hockey team. He did what is worthy of a trophy, the NHL might not have existed for the names suggested to replace his name on his trophy.

[@notashinytyphlosion]

We really need to get that part 2 to the Harold Ballard that we got like 3 years ago I think. With the CBC documentary out, we should get more Harold Ballard stories to celebrate it.

[@habinations]

he lived in the gardens and his house was gold. there are too many stories ro tell.and none of them are "good".

[@darrylmacdonald5120]

Great video!

[@amacce79]

You look sharp in that Mapleleafs jersey. Really seeing you actually wear your collection.

[@CP-in1oe]

Great content!

[@Nacnud92]

Controversial opinion: It *could* just be called the “Playoff MVP” trophy…

[@jimmiller6704]

Great summation. Leafs along with other teams traded many of their good players that were wanting a union. One of few teams that didn't trade their players was the Canadiens of the 1950's which allowed them to keep the best of their best and win them 5 stanley cups in a row. That's why they were such a strong team. Alkl the other teams had traded those who wanted to form a union. The Canadiens would have made more money than the others because of it. All those repeated appearances in the finals for the Canadiens meant more ticket sales, popcorn sales,... for the Canadiens instead of any of the other teams. Detroit at the time was particularly hit hard-they were a top team with guys like Howe and unfortunately many were traded.

[@that_guy0_0]

Greatest KZbinr of all time! 👏👏👏

[@shaneu6020]

that cat is sleepin good

[@theibault32]

THANKS!!!

[@mrbovinejoni569]

don't change the name

[@andrewjmschroeder]

Looking forward to the Jack Adams video. Boy was he ever a character.

[@rylanfeakes]

You can dig up dirt on anyone if you try hard enough Is my reasoning for why the trophies names should never change. But Even if one name is changed then all the names have to changed to be generic (Best Defenceman, Best scorer) The league needs to preserve its history.

[@TheLordoftheSpuds]

history is what books are for--the NHL's history is safe. Being a namesake for a trophy is an honor. So we must ask ourselves, about those we honor, do they deserve it? And if we honor that person, what does say to those generations coming up? Also, you really don't have to dig up dirt on him; he put it out there himself. You can definitely find some reasonably decent folks (blemishes and all) to honor with such a trophy.

[@JD200_]

New series idea: "Controversial figures"

[@reverend20piece]

Keep the name. Don't erase history, learn from it.

[@user-xn5me8iz7c]

id rather just keep the history. He was their at beginning, he was the beginning, people need to stop looking to the past and find reasons to change things.

[@constantinentakos2907]

Very interesting I’ve never heard of the herb Carnegie remark. I know he was a strong monarchist so the flag controversies as well with the Queen’s portrait is on brand

[@constantinentakos2907]

He also promised players more playing time too if they enlisted in the military during WW2

[@tjtribble.]

Politics aside, I wouldn’t mind seeing a name change to something more self explanatory. It’s hard to keep track of all the awards as a new fan when they’re all named after people I haven’t heard of.

[@lucaspipenhagen900]

That quote is from 1938, not 1958

[@royanderson3478]

1938 $10 gees is equivalent to a million today? Just a guess but to offer that sum ĥad to be real.

[@mactheknife7049]

I've come to the conclusion that everyone, no matter who they are or when they lived, has or will do something that future generations will perceive as bad, insensitive, or otherwise contrary to public norms. I'm in that club as well - I said and did things in the 1980's that would no doubt today be viewed as homophobic, racist or sexist in one form or another; despite being someone whose personal life has seen me date women of all races and whose business life has seen me employ and pay people based on their talent and ability and no other factor. I'm not sure what the full scope of Conn Smythe's conduct may have been, but I know that in all cases such as this, a person should be viewed through the prism of their times before making a decision.

[@dbassman27]

There is a story (it may or may not be apocryphal) about Charlie Pride. Before he was signed to RCA records, Chet Atkins (who wanted him signed), played his demos before the board to see what they thought. When the board said they needed to sign him, Chet then showed them a publicity picture. Probably should have signed Herb (somebody has to be first).

[@chrisbelos2834]

1967 the last leaf player who won the Conn Smythe was Dave Keon in 1967

[@edwardsalley1248]

The comment about Herb Carnegie was a product of the time. He hated the sight of Harold Ballard so that makes him great in my opinion.

[@pstandlee]

I had no idea the Leafs had such crazy history.

[@rodchallis8031]

The Flag: I was about 6 when he current flag was adopted. So, I missed much of the political debate, and debate there was. There was actually a fist fight on the floor of the House of Commons over the issue. WWI veterans-- and there were still many alive at that time, fought under the Union Jack and felt slighted with the change. Doubly so for WWII veterans, who were already nursing a grudge against the Liberal Party, over Mackenzie Kings "Conscription if necessary, but not necessarily Conscription" quote. I'm the son of a WWII veteran who served in Sicily, Italy and Holland with the Ist RCR. The lack of well trained replacements during the Italian campaign left squads short handed. Maybe the Bren Gunner had to do his own re-loads, maybe they were a rifleman down taking on a strong point. It lead to more casualties, as the demands never slacked due to manpower shortages. So yes, there was much bitterness there. Former P.M. John Diefenbaker championed the Union Jack side on the Flag debate, and maybe I'm waxing a bit poetic, but the debate never officially was over until 'Dief" died. Many thought he might have opted for his coffin to be draped with the old flag, but he didn't. It was the flag we know today. I'm not a big fan of John Diefenbaker, but I think of that sometimes, and think of today's politicians, and I don't think any of them would be that big.

[@thisiscob]

Considering how the NHL has trended with ads, they would change it to the "Taco Bell NHL Playoff MVP Award, Brought to you by Carl's Jr." For some reason I prefer the Conn Smythe Trophy, but then again the NHL did run a poll and 32 out of 32 team owners prefer the new Taco Bell name. /s

[@Lesverts]

You missed the big thing with the flag debate. Older generations were opposed because it was the Red Ensign that was fought under at Vimy and Juno Beach.

[@erikkrosh8112]

Fine, rename it to "The Ivan Provorov Trophy". ( that, of course, was a joke)

[@rherchenreder]

I understand why the controversy exists. But there are many examples of stories like this where we judge events of the past according to standards of today. I’m not saying that things of the past were wrong or right, but they certainly feel wrong from our perspectives of today. I’d be interested in hearing Willie O’Ree’s sentiments on this. Since the awards were named to honor the builders of the NHL, I see their names as league traditions and would not want them changed. Some are saying the Selke should be renamed the Bergeron award. As a Bruins fan that’s a nice honor, but I’d still rather see it remain as the Selke and I’m hoping Bergeron is selected again this year.

[@TylerMorganShow]

Interesting dont know much about him

[@craigstockdale6968]

As for the flag, the issue was with people upset about the Union Jack not representing the " home country " was gone. Other commonwealth countries still have it on their flags.

[@Libertyjack1]

The reason for this is that these countries were governed by reactionary leaders when their Ensign flags were adopted. It's a good thing Pearson had more vision, not to doom the future through a doating of the past.

[@SombraPiloto]

I'm so glad I grew up with the Adams, Patrick, Norris, and Smythe Divisions split between the Wales and Campbell Conferences and I'm hoping I'll be gone before all trophy as well as team names are deleted because some moron(s) with nothing better to do found each of them "problematic" in some way.

[@preppen78]

While I don't think awards should be changed due to something dubious someone has said in some context, which 50-100 years later may not be interpreted the way it was meant, I don't see most people being important or great enough to have awards named after them eternally. I wouldn't mind a new Conn Smythe award, but I haven't delved deeper into this

[@justinsolomita9283]

Yes, we should absolutely remove people's names from trophies and buildings who weren't perfect people.

[@mvk4343]

The only completely accidentally based thing Ballard did was remove the portrait of the Queen

[@ukrainian.g.o.a.t.566]

I'm not for changing the name. But.. if you are going to change the name. Change it to the Herb Carnegie Memorial Trophy. That's a true MVP award.

[@oilersridersbluejays]

THG: He didn’t like Lester Pearson. Me: No one west of Ontario liked Lester Pearson.

[@kyletyler5756]

After learning about this I wonder why his name was used for playoff MVP. I feel like this award could do with rename. Maybe after someone in NHL history who had a historic playoff run.

[@AndrewDW44]

He created the Toronto Maple Leafs. That kind of a big deal usually get some honors. As for why its the playoff mvp trophy, I'm miffed as well. Please do not change the name. I hate when people try to cancel the dead. The guy said some things, so what? Erase him from history? Some guy once said "If you don't vote for me you ain't black" I'm not sure but I believe he later became president could be mistaken, ah but that's ancient history

[@christhornycroft3686]

I don't know why, but every story about an older, especially now-deceased guy very often becomes a Bill Burr punchline. "He was born in the 20s. What did we think he thought?" It's just cringe. Sure, you have to take things in historical context, obviously, but you also have to draw the line somewhere. At least this guy gave fans across Canada west of Ontario a team to hate.

[@CheetahLynx]

East of Ontario too

[@dangniewecki6248]

As a 3rd generation union member…I have healthcare and could afford college because of them. I’m alive because of it. Union busters and scabs are the lowest of the low. Get those names of the trophies going to NHLPA members who have had lockouts, strikes, and paid there dues to have anything they have now. They wreck their bodies for these owners and deserve compensation for it.

[@closethockeyfan5284]

Thank you, precisely why I don't think it makes sense to keep Smythe. He opposed even half-decent treatment of players and the growth of the game.

[@conroche1535]

@@closethockeyfan5284 I agree. I would, of course, miss being able to point to it to those (non-Irish) people I meet, who think Con is a weird name, and go immediately to the tiresome, "con-man" reference. 😅

[@doubledouble4g379]

Didn't know he was an owner - always figured he was another player from long-ago like Vezna. I suppose renaming it to the Patrick Roy Trophy would be too easy? If Rocket Richard has a trophy, surely the guy who's won it the most deserves the same?

[@MegaStara]

Gary Bettman trophy... there you have it

[@MustardGravyy]

Ik he seems fairly controversial but his name is cool af so I'd say keep the trophy name the same

[@Merlin_From_Shrek_3]

So clarence Campbell video when?

[@Shadow12aven]

I don't have a problem with keeping his name if similar sports have the same dilemma. Like if MLB has potential racists as trophy names then it isn't just a hockey issue and could be more forgiving. I don't stand for anything racist though.

[@raytaylor6412]

If I have read correctly, didn't Conn Smythe oppose plans for Muhammad Ali to box at Maple Leaf Gardens because of Ali's opposition to the war in Vietnam?

[@catholicactionbibleonlyist1813]

Would be somting that Conn Smyth comments 67 expansion is reason why the maple leafs have not been the Stanley cup finals since 1967 I find the current Canadian flag better than the old one no union Jack (aesthetic reasons)

[@neithermanc1]

i interpret the quote to mean conn smythe was a coward, especially because jackie robinson started in the MLB in 1947. there was already a precedent of black athletes playing in north american pro sports by that point. also union busting is never okay. at least he hated harold ballard.

[@spzum]

People need to get a life. No one is prefect. The last prefect person was nailed to the cross.

[@jackmiller-johnston8689]

Judging one's character off one quote that was made in 1938 (not 1958, sorry THC) through 2023 eyes is utter nonsense. The only people that want his name removed from the trophy, are the cancel cretins that are desperate to show how worthy they are. You cannot tell the story of hockey without Conn Smythe, just like you can't tell that tale without Herb Carnegie.

[@jonfox4022]

People are just stupid. They're gonna look at that one quote without even understanding it and then act as judge jury and executioner. And we're supposed to pretend like that's a good thing.....

[@jackmiller-johnston8689]

@@jonfox4022 I'm not going to taint someone's image off one quote if it was made in an era like this.

[@20thCenturyManTrad]

The guy did more for hockey then all of these cancel cretins put together. Came from nothing, built the inaugural Rangers, turned the Leafs into the class of the NHL, built 7 Cup winning rosters, and built Maple Leaf Gardens in 6 and a half months. I'm fed up with these imbeciles that did nothing, who try to tear down great men.

[@komododragon5846]

No historical figure survives enough time + cancellation. There might be a push to remove mention of anyone today who ate meat if that becomes looked at as horrible in the future for example, even if they accomplished much in their fields. We can agree that what he said about Carnegie was bad while also not erasing history - keep the trophy name.

[@EncorePerformances]

I think the trophies should retain their original names. Even if there are negative historical connotations, I think it's a mistake to try and sweep that under the rug by crossing out the name, especially when considering the part they played in the game's evolution. If Conn Smythe's name gets erased, should we erase Messier from his award because of what he did to the Canucks? To play devil's advocate, what happens if it comes out that Lord Stanley was racist or enjoyed drowning puppies, or something? Would we have to rename the Stanley Cup as well, since we just removed Conn Smythe from the trophy? Human beings are flawed creatures at the end of the day and aren't wholly good nor bad. Trying to restrict history to only the good parts or good people kind of defeats the purpose, and you aren't going to find an actual saint to put on the Conn Smythe trophy instead.

[@cris-99]

Conn Smythe is one of the most important figures in hockey history and within the city of Toronto, he did so much for this organization it’s unbelievable. Without Conn Smythe the maple leafs wouldn’t be the organization they are today. He also built maple leaf gardens during the depression which is insane. Served in the war and changed the st. Patrick’s to the maple leafs. Canadian icon / legend and will never be forgotten. They should NEVER think of taking his name off the trophy that would be a disgrace to hockey. He did a lot for this league. Btw it really does seem like your trying to discredit and make Smythe look bad in this video I don’t get it? he’s nothing like Ballard nothing… Smythe is a legend and will forever be loved by leafs nation. Smythe was able to build two maple leaf dynasties while he was in charge and Ballard did nothing but bring heartbreaks to us leaf fans.

[@brianhobaugh]

Shannon isn’t trying to make him look bad. He’s merely discussing his story and things he said and did.

[@jonfox4022]

@@brianhobaugh Cris took up English as a second or third language. It's easy to understand why Cris so grossly misunderstood what was said in this video.

[@Swaggs907]

I could see the nhl renaming the trophy’s like the nba just did. It would make sense to have all the trophy’s named after players.

[@creamcheesewonton420]

MacKinnon should have won it, not Makar.

[@Shadow12aven]

There's allot of trophy names I would rename. No offence to Vezina as one example but he's not even close to Hasek's talent. Also with the Norris, i would invent a offensive award and defensive award and rename Orr Trophy and Lidstrom trophy personal. Get rid of Norris entirely because he isn't better than Bobby or Niklas.

[@TheHockeyGuy]

Vezina revolutionized the position and had a goals against under 2 while never leaving his feet. The trophies aren't about the talent as much as they are about honoring the greats who changed the game. Norris wasn't a player.

[@Shadow12aven]

@@TheHockeyGuy I just think the best players names should be on the trophies. I understand why his name is on the trophy the same way Led Zeppelin is known as one of the best bands even though Devin Townsend or Steve Vai are more talented and make better music than Zep.

[@TheHockeyGuy]

Zeppelin changed music forever. Paige's riffs are the greatest ever. I will abide no Zeppelin insults.

[@tranvianoruega8756]

Reminds me of the time that twitter cancelled Genghis Khan lol

[@twfchamp02]

Here’s my take. He may have been racist but I believe he might’ve accepted a black man into the NHL but nobody else would. He was in the military and I’m sure there were young black men he encountered. I say leave it as is.

[@melkweg12]

It's funny I started this video opposed to changing it. Nothing said in the video particularly offended me but it convinced me that it should be changed nonetheless. I realized that while I'm not offended, I certainly don't find him particularly impressive so I'm really just being okay with the way it's always been. He doesn't really mean much compared to the achievement of being the playoff MVP in the moment the trophy is given out. So yeah, I'm convinced that the name can easily be changed without lessening the impact of any winner to the game. So why are we holding on so tight?

[@20thCenturyManTrad]

The guy built an entire franchise, and 7 Cup winning rosters. Those two alone merit a trophy.

[@johnpat3622]

I'm sure if you look back long and hard enough, you would find something that just about everyone said back then that would be considered offensive today. Enough with the cancel culture. Stop rewriting history, otherwise we will likely relive it.

[@mickshealthjourney3635]

If all the big individual awards had to be renamed: I'd go with the following: Hart >> Howe Art Ross >> Gretzky Norris >> Orr Masterton >> Lemiuex Vezina >> Plante Jennings >> Hasek Calder >> Selane Selke >> Gainey Smythe >> Roy Adams >> Bowman Lady Byng >> Boucher King Clancy >> Lindros Messier >> Yzerman Lindsay and Richard would be the only two that I would refuse to change, it's the perfect name

[@mamitomoe321]

No, if we're renaming the Selke, it will be named after Bergeron.

[@rededd0196]

Good list, you'd get my vote.

[@deansmith6593]

Fine with them all but Lindros for King Clancy is a terrible idea. If you don't believe me ask Rod Brind'amor. Besides Lindros never led a team anywhere on the ice and was a scumbag off of it.

[@SunSwipePrime]

Unfortunately, the Orr trophy would have issues too, because of Orr's politics.

[@teajay3671]

Honestly reading this just makes me realize how good the current names are, I would hate it if we had these names lol

[@Ryan-0413]

Of note with terms to the flag, many veterans were against changing flag because soldiers of WW1 and WW2 (and Korea) had died under the flag of the Red Ensign. So, they felt changing the flag would hurt or diminish their memory. I don’t really get the argument to be honest but that’s essentially the reason why.

[@rickyaz8640]

Charming guy: In March 1966, Smythe sold his remaining shares in Maple Leaf Gardens Ltd. and resigned from the board of directors after a Muhammad Ali boxing match was scheduled for the Gardens. He found Ali's refusal to serve in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War to be offensive because, as he put it in his autobiography, "The Gardens was founded by men - sportsmen - who fought for their country. It is no place for those want to evade conscription in their own country. The Gardens was built for many things, but not for picking up things that no one else wants."[87] He also said that by accepting the fight, Gardens owners had "put cash ahead of class."[88]. Wikipedia

[@85blutch]

From a guy that fought in both World Wars that's a perfectly understandable statement.

[@rickyaz8640]

@@85blutch he was a troglodyte. Even by 1966 standards

[@jackmiller-johnston8689]

@@rickyaz8640, were you even around and old enough to judge what made a troglodyte in 1966? If not, what on Earth are you talking about?

[@rickyaz8640]

Being blatantly racist, anti-union, anti Ali (who was world famous by then, thus the notoriety) anti expansion… yeah those were pretty extreme even in 1966. Read a history book, the world didn’t start in 1999.

[@Peoplesrepublicoffortnite]

@@rickyaz8640 that is quite literally how a lot of people felt back then

[@jl3059]

All the 😺 who want names changed dont even watch sports

[@joeb2151]

I propose a name change to the Sakic. Sakic only won it once. But is generally regarded as one of the true gentlemen of the sport, is wildly popular everywhere he played and of course the great Brett Hull telling Sean Avery to not talk to Mr. Sakic story. I do love the history of the sport. But the sport is very very different than 50-100 years ago.

[@saltywingsandavsfan]

That sounds well kinda greasy

[@iamgreekboy4321]

Second

[@crazycatswell4684]

Third

[@VarietyStreamer420]

first

[@schnucksergio5808]

sounds like someone that gets no calls on his birtday :D he is a relic of the past with no connection to our times. change it or keep it, it doesnt matter.

[@Falom]

Personally I understand both sides of the coin. On one hand, you want to celebrate people that shaped the face of the game, regardless of controversy. On the other hand, putting people on a pedestal puts a spotlight on the abhorrent things that they have done, and the conversation that is there is one that should be had regardless of political leaning: should we celebrate people that have done things that aren’t acceptable in today’s society? I understand that most of these historical figures fought in the World War’s, and the sense of patriotism that comes with that, but who’s to say they’re only getting this sort of recognition because they’re in the spotlight as a public figure in the first place? For me personally, I think that names on trophies and statues should change with time. Not because these people did horrible things, but because times simply change. Statues and cups and materialistic items aren’t how we remember people, books and history lessons are. Keeping people on cups and statues and all that just for the sake of remembrance misses the point of celebration in the first place, and with times changing as they always do, why can’t we celebrate new people in the sport? Achievements happen all the time in the game and I am not the person to set the bar on what should be considered for a name on a cup, but when we keep people’s name on cups for an undetermined amount of time, it doesn’t allow us to celebrate the people that are making more recent and sometimes better achievements in the sport. And personally, I don’t think that’s fair to the new guys. We will always remember the people who shaped the game for us today. Let’s celebrate the current people who are shaping the game for the future generations of the sport. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk? Lol

[@MK-ji9ke]

Lester B Pearson had his name taken off one of the trophies. A Nobel Peace Prize winning statesman and former Canadian PM. Can't see any good reason for taking his name off the (now) Lindsey, other than to honour a worthy player. Rename the Conn Smythe to someone more fitting

[@neon-tv9ie]

Good to know that he’s not just a union-busting racist, but a charitable and successful union-busting racist 👍

[@michaelkeller5927]

All the trophies should be renamed. Those old owners were borderline evil, and the game would be dead if they had gotten their way back in the early nhl

[@LedriTheThane]

The racism quote is one thing if it was alone, especially since it can be misinterpreted as unnecessarily callous, when it could've been a very ignorant way on how to discuss race. But the anti-unionizing efforts throughout his life, stepping down from the MLG board because of Muhammad Ali (which I question his reasoning for, since his previous racism quote certainly doesn't help in his favor here), altogether should get his name fully removed from that trophy. Not everything that's old and traditional needs to stay.

[@angushiltz4880]

The issue he had with Ali was that Ali wouldn't fight in Vietnam. And as far as that quote goes it wasn't a racist quote at the time. His name was put on the trophy for his contribution to the game and the NHL. For his contribution to hockey, to me, his name should stay on the trophy.

[@Peoplesrepublicoffortnite]

Yeah no first off, that quote was rather recklessly put in hindsight. However it was actually said in 1938. And the attitude towards Ali, especially among men who were drafted and served in past wars was negative. I dont blame him for having the attitude of “I was drafted, served in 2 world wars and I made it out fine while proudly serving my country”

[@LedriTheThane]

@@Peoplesrepublicoffortnite It doesn't matter whether it was 1938 or 1958. If a man like John Brown can be anti-racist prior to the American civil war, so can someone that lived 100 years later. And also, sorry that Muhammad Ali values his life more than a country that never truly fought for his rights, goes on and fights in an unjustifiable war. But Conn Smythe, as well as other men in this mindset, don't care about any of that.

[@Peoplesrepublicoffortnite]

@@LedriTheThane John Brown sure as hell didnt value his life lol. Im sorry you have the inability to sympathize with anyone elses outlook

[@LedriTheThane]

@@Peoplesrepublicoffortnite John Brown not valuing his life has nothing to do with this lmfao, but ok. And nah, Conn Smythe is the one that lacks any sympathy for others outlooks. Whether it's his anti-union rhetoric, his racist comments, or thinking men are cowards for not wanting to go to war. I think he needs to learn some sympathy. And all I'm arguing for is not honoring an asshole by having his name on a trophy.

[@buckchesterfield8886]

The Abject Scumbag Award goes to…change the name. Why couldn’t the NHL look through the pages of their history and find an actually worthy individual to name a trophy after?

[@Ratzy1614]

idk Smythe seemed to be very problematic, racist quote, against the union, against the expansion. Kinda seemed like he just wanted a small white nhl with terrible benefits for the players

[@Peoplesrepublicoffortnite]

First off, the quote was from 1938 actually. Second of all, its not racist, its obvious he was pissed off that he couldnt recruit Herb Carnegie because he was black, so he said that to show how much he wanted him.

[@dealy9268]

Smythe robbed us of seeing one of the greats play in the NHL. Carnegie's numbers were insane. The NHL would have been the first to have a black pro player. As a father of mixed race kids both who play and have had to deal with race issues, Smythe's name on that trophy SUCKS!!!!! Many of the NONwhite players and some that are white do not like his name on the Playoff MVP. Some NHL players have adopted African American children and have stated they wished the NHL would change the name. Now you have some racial issues that have shown up and getting attention. Now IS the time to change the name for that reason alone! My vote is for the Wayne Gretzky trophy. This is a no brainer for Americans. It is Canadians that have the big issue with removing his name. As an American who played in Juniors in Canada and had a black teammate, I can say MTL was the worst place we ever played as far as what he had to go through.

[@Clutch28]

Remove Smythe's name