Let's Talk About Elayne Trakand

Elayne Trakand, Daughter Heir of Andor... let's talk about her!
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#WheelofTime #WoTTube #ElayneTrakand

[@RiseeRee]

Elayne is exactly what I expect an 18 yr old who grew up knowing she would rule a super powerful country and knowing that she is one of the most powerful magic wielders around to be. My favorite Elayne moments are her riding into battle, pregnant, waving a sword, just to rally her troops. And of course her unconditional love of Rand. She’s the only one of the three who saw his LTT memories as an asset instead of thinking he was just insane. And I love when she slapped Egwene.

[@Yarazin]

I appreciate your comments. I feel the same about her.

[@SkippD]

Well said

[@revan0890]

It's been awhile. When did she slap Egwene?

[@SkippD]

@@revan0890 In either TDR or TSR when they were in Tear I believe.

[@revan0890]

@@SkippD I saw TDR and i was thinking to myself, "She's in The Dark Knight Rises?" Serious brain fart.

[@SaltyRoast]

Discord, nah. I like that Elayne was one of the few female characters to support and trust Matt. It's one of the few times where we see validation from from the story's women for any of the young men.

[@danalou_who7765]

I am pretty much spot on with your sentiments on Elayne, Jenny. One thing I love about Elayne the sheltered princess is her excitement at experiencing the wider world and how she embraces and savors new experiences including the swear words from which she was sheltered. 😁

[@sotek2345]

Great breakdown, but you left out my favorite Elayne trait - her inquisitive nature and seeking to understand how things work. For me, rediscovering how to make Ter'angreal was a huge moment in the series.

[@LezbiNerdy]

Yeah, I do like that too ^_^

[@Unlitedsoul]

And cuendillar.

[@Yarazin]

@@Unlitedsoul I don't care much for Egwene but didn't she figure that out?

[@xrysoryba]

@@Yarazin Egwene got how to make cuendillar from Moghedien.

[@JamieDanger]

Elayne is by far my favorite character - smart, emotional, powerful. Her relationships with other female characters are some of the best in the story (Aviendha??? Birgitte?? Iconic). I think one of the best scenes in the entire series is the first sister ceremony between Elayne and Aviendha.

[@cmoorejr11]

I’ll die on the hill that she should have been Grey Ajah.

[@cmoorejr11]

@@Gunleaver I disagree. We see many instances of their being different personalities within the same ajah. There are reserved greens and there is Alanna. 😂 how well she works with protocol, leadership, teamwork, bridging gaps, all add to her being perfect for Grey. We don’t get very many good examples of greys. We got mediocre versions, she could have been that good example.

[@jordanevans3735]

I have so many points; 1) thank you for helping me organize my thoughts on Elayne. 2) I think one of my favorite things Elayne does is apologize to Mat. Sure, she’s resistant to it, but unlike most of our characters, when she realizes she’s wrong, she doesn’t spend 3 books denying it or justifying her wrongness to herself. 3) while she is pigheaded about Galad, she earnestly believes what she says about him, she honestly thought there was a 50/50 chance of him selling her and Nyneave out to the white cloaks (and I really appreciate RJ showing us that Galad would never do such a thing). But in Elayne’s defense, dude did become a white cloak. Additionally, while they share a father, I that father was going to murder her mother. Of course she didn’t know that, but let’s be honest Morgase almost certainly did, and kids can pick up on that type of animosity. Additionally, Elayne had to know that some could claim that Galad had a stronger claim on the throne (if the sexes were reversed in the British line of succession, Galad would’ve been king), so Galad is a threat, especially if they ever completed for the Sun Throne. I’m by no means saying Elayne was in any way right to treat Galad so horribly, I’m saying RJ did a really good job with laying a basis for her animosity, and gave us so much Galad character development with the fact that he did not return it. I have many other thoughts but I felt those were the most important and this is already too long.

[@shazariahl]

To expand on your point with Matt, she apologized very sincerely after Matt saves her from the gholam. So even though the first was kind of forced, she comes around.

[@johnnyrotten3175]

Teenage siblings fight... It's called tinnitus.. lol

[@alyssap9233]

Thank you for this video! I really like Elayne (she was my favorite of the woman up until book 7(?) when Egwene took over). I'm one of those people that tends to like characters in part because of their flaws, not despite them, so I find her dumb mistakes and impulsiveness very endearing. I honestly feel like a lot of people see that people agree the female characters aren't written well a good amount of the time and use that as an excuse to hate the women in this series (*cough* Faile is a good character and it's not her fault her kidnapping arc went on too long *cough*). I'm not gonna put words in anyone's mouth and I'm sure some people have justifiable reasons to hate her, but the hate she and other women in this series get is ridiculous.

[@andrewberenson5717]

Elayne is my second favorite character. I cannot wait to see who the show casts to play her. I do not blame Elyane for the consequences of the exploding gateway. That was something that needed to be done to make sure the Seanchan did not get the weave of traveling.

[@ablindwatchmakerUT]

I love Elayne. She is one of my favorite characters, no doubt. Intelligent, kind, brave, and friendly.

[@RiseeRee]

Omg I absolutely LOVE Elayne 💜

[@Ipavaiva]

You should absolutely make Galad video, I found myself wishing I was watching that here :P That being said, great video! I always felt like I'm one of the people who likes Elayne more than average fan, but you still made me appreciate some sides of her more

[@madwarrior7698]

One of my favorite quotes in the whole series is actually from Elayne, and can I just say, the first sister ceremony... 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@MattGarZero]

I've always liked Elayne. Her and Mat's interactions always make me chuckle. Also, her constantly listening in on men swearing is one of my favorite running gags. I wish she would have gotten better development from Sanderson. I feel like he just left her as "Muh babes!" and "But Min's viewing LMAO".

[@LeahB31]

At least she got a lot more page time in the Sanderson books then Nynaeve did. My girl Nyn was barely in the last 3 or 4 books.

[@TheNextFool]

I actually like the Succession plotline, it's my favourite Elayne plot. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that she is super competent and smart in her own domain (both figuratively and literally) but naive and even foolhardy elsewhere. She has been trained to be a Queen from birth and she knows Andoran politics inside out, but things like experimenting with ter'angreal were extremely dangerous. She does not have a careful approach. I don't really understand Elayne's falling in love with Rand and even less her decision to try to get pregnant with him. She is an adult, of course, but I think these things merit some careful thought and her future was extremely uncertain at that time as she had yet to even be close to winning the Succession. She is also still only 18 and, as noted above, can be naive.

[@godemperorcarlo]

Hmmm I agree Elayne has an important role as the "Straight man" (Not sure there is non gendered equivalent) in comedic terms. She is there to contrast the craziness and extremes of other characters with a very cool, collected even keel character. You can't have a cast full of crazy. You need someone to contrast and have a more real life to reaction to crazy. I also like that her serenity was learned, when we get inside her head she is just as impulsive and angry as the rest but her training as a noble has taught her to wear a mask. I actually find her storyline pretty compelling even if its because she is there just to temper the passions of her friends. A good plot is still a good plot.

[@kght222]

4:18 gawyn figures it out and tells galad about rand being his half brother in the last book.

[@LezbiNerdy]

Ah that's right. So he might actually learn why his mother left eventually. That's good to know.

[@ShadowsEternity]

Thank you for the effort you put in this video :D Also, I’d like to see you make a video about Galad too :)

[@TheNextFool]

Another great video and I am loving the art that people are doing inspired by the show casting (eg the one with Nynaeve, Min and Elayne together) and the bi Avi/Elayne love. The artists are producing some beautiful stuff in such a wide range of styles. I'm going to look up some of them from the credits and show them some love. :)

[@smaug1234]

I love Elayne up to the war for the throne area of the book, she's got some good moments from that point on, but she has some decision making issues as well. The part where they are leaving the circus and her and Nynaeve are like two stray cats stuck in a box together, and nobody believes she's who she says she is. She works well with everyone Jordan puts her with. In a series with so much serious crap all the time, she brings comedic moments, and that's what makes wot different from lotr and asoiaf, one of the things that makes it different. Elayne is a very very posh Meatloaf :)

[@LezbiNerdy]

Oh yeah, she definitely brings the funny!

[@carolbriscoe9337]

Don't forget Egwene and Elayne ate in fact teenagers. Nynaeve is the eldest of the group. 25 I believe. Elayne can be impatient, eager to learn weaving, but it's due to her youth. Politically she's been well trained, her inter actio s with the various lords is spot on. No, overall I appreciated Elayne

[@anonperson3972]

Elayne hated Galad because she was a younger sister and he was the snitch, killjoy older brother. That was good writing, it was part of her immaturity. She stopped hating him in the later books, showing that she had become more mature and realised what's important. I think it was written in to give her a realistic flaw for her to overcome.

[@matsdaggerx3141]

To be totally honest the only times I even think about Elayne is when she's interacting with the EF5. Her battle for the Thrown felt like filler. Only times I've actually disliked her story was her running off on her own...2 books in a row and being either kidnapped or almost killed and because Min's viewing she just says F-it and runs off. That frustrated me!

[@BaoShenwang]

Yeah, as I said elsewhere, I think my feelings towards Elayne are overall similar... I suppose maybe I find her a bit more irritating, or irritating more frequently, than you do. It tends to be in the moments where she's acting a bit snooty... which, honestly, stepping back from my own feelings for a moment, probably isn't entirely fair to her, she can't help her upbringing and honestly for someone with as privileged a background as her, she's remarkably UNsnooty most of the time. But she still has her moments, unavoidably, and they still get under my skin a bit... maybe that's my hyper class-conscious English side talking. XD But it's funny, because those moments of narrow-mindedness also make her a better character. Once again, WoT is intended to be frustrating at times, I guess, lol. Your comparison to Mat did really interest me, though. I'm now wondering if there's a bit of soft-mirroring going on between the three main boys and the three main girls... my initial impression is that it might go something like this: - Egwene Rand (given the most authority, very strong-willed, working for the bigger picture but have some distinctly dodgy moments) - Nynaeve Perrin (staying the most connected to their roots, heart over head, prioritize personal bonds, known for fantastic discoveries - though in Perrin's case they're more rediscoveries) - Elayne Mat (lucky, probably the most likeable/easygoing of their respective trios on a day-to-day basis, the ones who take best to being nobles) I could probably get more into this if I tried... maybe a discussion to have on Discord at some point! ;-)

[@mcina001]

Ooh, I like your comparison of the three main male and female protagonists. Well put. Spoilers abound below.... Along these lines, I don’t understand all the Elayne hate. Sure, she’s impulsive and gets herself (and yes, often others too) into trouble because of it, but she’s also brave, likable, and loyal to her friends. Where Mat gets a pass for his buffoonery and shite decisions that ultimately work out purely because of his luck, Elayne gets flack and ridicule. Yes, the succession story line drags, and she lacks Mat’s comic charisma, but she has amazing traits which we too often overlook. If she were a boy, she’d be the roguish naughty type all the girls would fall in love with, with his benevolent if sometimes misguided love for the common people, his red-gold curls and dashing good looks, his naive bravery, always rushing in to save the day. Honestly, he’d be Prince Charming. The female characters are judged too harshly by the collective fandom IMO. They’re criticized by the male readers because we men are automatically chauvinists because of what our societies have taught us (unless we work actively against these instincts). They’re criticized by the slightly less chauvinistic women of our world too. I believe female readers judge the women in RJ’s world unfairly too sometimes, because-as the dominant gender in Randland thanks to the 3,000-year-old taint-so often the women embody some of the flaws men have in our real world, such as a sense of entitlement or dismissiveness of the opposite gender (oh, he’s just a man, good in bed and to carry heavy things, but when he tries to think, he does so with the “hair on his chest,” which I took as RJ’s PG way of saying with his penis). Egwene gets the worst of it. If Egwene were a dude, we’d be in awe of his accomplishments and his ambition. But all three girls are judged too harshly. You might suggest that Perrin catches a lot more flack than Nynaeve, but I believe this strengthens my argument. It’s not Perrin the fans hate. It’s Faile, a flawed but strong woman who is too stubborn and jealous (as perceived through Perrin’s excessively sensitive and clearly biased nose), and who enjoys sadism too much (which is a cultural acquisition, not a personal trait). It’s because we hate that Perrin does everything for Faile, to the point of being stuck in place. He fails to grab the bull by the horns like a man should and to accept his fate as Wolfbrother and leader. He shouldn’t dote over his wife. She’s just one woman. The fate of the world hangs in the balance, man! Get to it. Now let’s examine his counterpart. Nynaeve is slow to accept change, refuses to consider herself Aes Sedai despite all signs pointing that way, falls head over heels with a strong but flawed man whose toxic masculinity and suicidal intent are AT LEAST as problematic as Faile’s weird customs and abrasiveness, and fails to break her block until she’s literally dying. Nynaeve gets respect from us because she stands by her man, and also because she stands by Rand the man. Yes, Nynaeve has amazing accomplishments, and she’s my favorite character, so I understand, but like Min she gets free points because-at least in part-she fulfills the housewife role. A little. It doesn’t define her, but it sure does endear us to her. I mean I cry at the Golden Crane as much as the next guy, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that heroic though that be, it is a wife supporting her husband (even against his wishes) that pulls at our collective heart strings. It’s the very same thing that Perrin loses respect doing. How much we love Lan and hate Faile is what defines how much we love Nynaeve and criticize Perrin for standing by their respective spouses. I know what you’re thinking. Lan is cooler than Faile. He’s the OG, the one who didn’t come to win but to kill. Sure he’s amazing in his own right. But is it also partly because he’s a man, and being a man wins him automatic lovable points among 2021 Earth humans? And is Faile docked points for being a woman? Yes, that too. The WoT is amazing at revealing modern society’s indelible attachment to old-fashioned gender biases. It may use a slightly outdated decades-old approach to do so, but the role reversals RJ sets as the foundation of his story yields so much fruit in this area. I suggest we stop hating Elayne because she’s a “snooty” princess (because come on, it’s pretty much only Mat who thinks this, and he’s the most unreliable of all the narrators), and start recognizing all of Elayne’s accomplishments, sidekick though she be: - The first channeler to help the Dragon Reborn with an injury, and she does it without the Power (eat your heart out, Nynaeve Al’Meara!) - The first person to prevent the Dragon Reborn from being locked up (you’ve got nothing on her, Perrin and the Asha’man at Dumai’s Wells or Cadsuane with your, ooh!, channeling in Far Madding) - The first person to be able to coolly handle Nynaeve’s temper (start taking notes, Al’Lan Mandragoran, supposed King of Malkier!) - The first person to teach the Dragon Reborn how to kiss (forget about it Elmindreda, cuddling with clothes doesn’t count!) - The first person to write the Dragon Reborn a letter that makes him want to cry (better luck next time, Moiraine Damodred Aes Sedai!) - The first beautiful young thing to dandle on Thom Merrilin’s knee but NOT bed him ultimately (you lose, every other woman who’s tugged on Thom’s mustachES, because Thom is too cool for just one mustache, and because for everyone else, once you’ve tugged, there’s no stopping until you get to home base) - The first person in the series to bond a female warder (you thought you were hot stuff, Logain Ablar, False Dragon extraordinaire!) etc. Oh, and some stuff about becoming a queen, making ter’angreal for the first time in millennia, leading the Armies of the Light, saving a Hero of the Horn, busting open the Windfinders’ secrets, tricking the Seanchan with an apparent nuclear bomb, AND walking a tightrope while scantily clad. Nominee for best WoT character?!

[@Siansonea]

@@mcina001 I would like to disagree with you. But I can't. So that's awkward.

[@mcina001]

@@Siansonea Lol. I’d like to disagree with me too. I mean Mat, Nynaeve, and Lan are the best of the best on their own objective terms. Right? RIGHT?! I hate that my love for these three might be tainted by the Dark One’s touch on the world.

[@LeisurelyPanda]

The only thing that I disagree with in this video is the one about Elayne unraveling the gateway. It kept the Seanchan from potentially discovering Travelling, which would've been a disaster for Randland. Unfortunately, she didn't think it through as well as she probably should have and she was lucky to be alive after it blew up, but it's better than the alternative, at least in the short term. Of course, the question about the Seanchan and what happens between them and the channelers in Randland is one of the reasons I hope we get more books in the future that answer those questions. I would love for Mat to use his ta'veren powers to rip their slavery system to shreds.

[@LezbiNerdy]

Oh she had her reasons for doing it, but it was an insanely risky thing to do, she had no idea what she was doing, she could have asked Avi to do it (she was there, right? I think she was there), and she is super lucky she didn't die. Or still herself. She just thought of it and did it.

[@LeisurelyPanda]

@@LezbiNerdy true, Aviendha doing it would've been a way smarter thing to do. Maybe some of it is related to her age because it's fairly common for young people to believe that they're invincible (though that still doesn't really explain why people like Egwene manage to not be quite so reckless). Maybe she's subconsciously trying to emulate Rand or trying to live up to being a Green sister or prove that she really deserves to be Aes Sedai or something.

[@LeisurelyPanda]

@@Gunleaver not sure what you're on about but nice novel dude 👍

[@Ackeeglock]

Many people died because she thinks she is invincible and she does not see how she is at fault.

[@daraussedai2163]

Oh Elayne. I struggle to come up with figuring out her purpose in the story. I think they could completely drop all the Trakands from the TV series and it wouldn’t have an impact on the story.

[@TheNextFool]

Her purpose is to underline to the reader the just and wise nature of the absolute monarchy. Andor needs a pregnant, 18-year-old that is quasi-immortal to rule over them without any form of elected government for the next 200 years. It is the only fair way not involving being thrust swords by some watery bint in a lake. I am not trolling.

[@wyvern723]

Yeah, I have two siblings from my dad's second marriage. We feel very strongly about the whole "half sibling" thing. How Elayne treats Galad always felt shitty.

[@nicholasbenjamin3826]

This was pretty much my take, then Mike of Mike's reviews got to one scene with her. It had a throw-away moment I hadn't cared about, but it just annoyed the hell out of him. It's in that 5-book section where she's pregnant, convinced she's unkillable, and thus taking all kinds of risks. This one worked out, but only after a couple of her guards died. As a fantasy reader I barely noticed the Guards died, Mike went on for like a full two minutes about how these men died for her and she didn't notice. The phrase "done with Elayne" was uttered at least three times. He kinda had a point. For any other character there would have been some sort of acknowledgement that these men died. Survivor's guilt is a thing in WoT, and Rand has a whole sub-plot where survivor's guilt and ingrained sexism drives him literally crazy. And she does this sort of thing all the time. If you're in the right social class she's great to you. If you're Mat on the road to Tanchico, she barely knows you, but she knows you're "not a lord," so she treats you like a particularly stubborn science experiment. She's only convinced to stop when her near-sister convinces her Matrim Cauthon is a human with value. Heck, the entire reason Mat's on the road is that she can't go back to Caemlyn (lest she see Rand and melt into a puddle of horniness) for an hour, which means she can't tel the Andoran houses to chill out she'll be back just as soon as she saves the world from global warming, which leads directly to a Civil War in which hundreds die. She never acknowledges the error, or even really notices the suffering it caused.

[@Unlitedsoul]

I never understood all the vitriol Elayne had for Galad, outside of him being a bit of a tattle tale when they were young. I think she is the primary reason he eventually chose to join the Whitecloaks. Out of her two brothers, if I needed one to serve as my sworn sword, protector, and advisor... I'd pick Galad over Gawain in a heartbeat. In AMOL, basically with his dying words, Gawain tells Galad that he won't be left without a brother. He then begins to point out what is known about Rand. “A son of… Tigraine… who went into the Waste… Son of a Maiden. Born on Dragonmount…” Oh, Light. “Don’t hate him, Galad,” Gawyn whispered. “I always hated him, but I stopped. I… stopped…” Gawyn’s eyes stopped moving. So, Galad does know that Rand is his half bother, and I believe he acknowledged it at Rand's pyre. I think Elayne is an attempt at writing a "rebellious teen" royal. She goes against the grain and advice almost every single time,but always manages to do so with a level of dignity. She does stupid things because Min told her she would have children. So, until she has the children, she's safe.... right? Right? Her love affair with Rand feels more like impulsive lust and infatuation, which is strengthened because he's the most possible "worst choice" she could make. I also think that Avidendha and Elayne should have been a lesbian romance. She's a good character overall, but always felt more like a secondary than primary.

[@casinferneycf45]

Absolutely agree with Elayne ans Avi not being shipped together. They are really close.. Like SISTERS or something.

[@stevek7699]

On Elayne's innocence: tSR: One Cup of Wine

[@deanmoxley1868]

Good stuff jenjen

[@chrissleeping65]

In AMOL the chapter where Rand finds out the seals he gave Egwene are fake he confesses to her and Gawyn the truth about him and Galad being half brothers. Gawyn dies telling Galad the truth.

[@Sw4lley]

The whole family around Morgase has the one problem of being not really Main Character and not being Side Character either. Meaning we get to know them quite a lot, but never get a real background and fleshed out story around them. Wheel of Time really needed like 5-10 different Sidestory Books. Wheel of Time is basicly the Cosmere put into one World without its many side plots. Atleast thats how it feels to me.

[@Siansonea]

...aaaaand now I want meat loaf and mashed potatoes and green beans and ketchup. Watching this video, I was struck my how much I don't hate Elayne compared to Rand, Min and Aviendha. She always escaped the worst of my dislike of that group, and I guess I would have assumed it was because she and Rand had the most shallow relationship. But come to think of it, she actually is a nice person and a good friend and most of her failings are just thoughtlessness rather than anything really sinister. I don't think I'll ever stan Elayne the way I do Egwene and Moiraine, but she's definitely not on my doody list. That list, by the way, is heavier than a mountain.

[@TheNextFool]

As a non-American, Meatloaf is a musician to me. Elayne is Meatloaf in a ginger wig....

[@deanmoxley1868]

I would not tie up my pregnant sigoth and drive off a bridge for *any* fictional character.

[@hitokirihobbit]

while i admittedly do ship avi/layne, i think regardless of ship or platonic, they are not given nearly enough credit as a legit power couple. elayne is a prodigy at making terangreal. avi has a talent at reading terangreal. i want to see THIS explored!!!

[@frankrobinsjr.1719]

If you're looking for another series with female protagonists, try Christopher Nuttall's Schooled in Magic series. It shows both the good and the bad in people, even people in power, or with power enough to be granted consideration.

[@pamelasierla6262]

Spoilers . . . . Elayne’s loyalty: Egwene: „Let’s team up against your boyfriend.” Elayne: „Sure, why not!” 😑

[@Dunstan9]

Yes, her loyalty to her nation and her duty. Besides, the expectation of the compartmentalization of such things is pretty common in WoT. It's all a balance.

[@IchibanOjousama]

Any thoughts on the ressemblance of names between Elayne and Ileana? Was it a red herring to make us believe she was the reincarnation of the Dragon's wife?

[@mandersen45]

Good points. I like Elayne overall. I disagree about the succession story arc. It's my least favorite probably, and doesn't really amount to anything. I also don't care for how she was written after pregnancy. Not just Min's viewing making her feel invincible, just some of the cliche pregnant woman stuff seemed over the top. I can't speak with authority on this though, being male myself.

[@samartcrafts_1910]

4:27 wait when the hell did that happen i don't remember that

[@LezbiNerdy]

Moiraine alludes to it in, I think, The Dragon Reborn, or maybe the Shadow Rising? It's when they meet up in the Stone of Tear

[@samartcrafts_1910]

@@LezbiNerdy ok thanks. You're the best by the way I found this channel right after finishing wot and it already one of my favorites on KZbin

[@this.is.a.username]

I loved Elayne right up until her meeting with Perrin. She refused to admit Andor's fault in losing control of the Two Rivers region and her idiotic backwards threat at Perrin about rebellion was just trash. I always sided with Perrin against the desires of Faile and the region to reclaim Manetheren's legacy, but at that moment I really wanted him to just say fuck it, Tai'shar Manetheren, and shove a wolf down her throat. As if Andor and Cahrien weren't enough for her. Also I'm mad at RJ/BS for killing off the Saldean royal line, I think Perrin could have been satisfied with being "steward" of TR, but a crown? C'mon the man wanted to pound metal and make art.

[@duaneswab3420]

I really like meatloaf.

[@scottharris5264]

Thought she was just a boring unimaginative character.

[@Frenzywonder]

My feeling on Elayne through the series follow the opposite trajectory of my feelings for Gawyn lol, I started not liking her that much and now she's in my top 3 favorites. And Gawyn well ......................................................................................................................... 😬

[@geoffdewitt6845]

Unsubscribed. The only appropriate topping for meatloaf is hot sauce.

[@TheBardOfTheRedHand]

Believe it or not I, a man who will most anything... hate meatloaf. And I hate it because of it's aggressively medium state of existence.