Let's Talk About Mr Collins

[@EllenMariaM]

I think there is another very important role of Mr. Collins in Pride & Prejudice: to contrast him to Mr. Darcy in the way they respond to having a marriage proposal refused. They really are polar opposites in that respect, almost exaggeratedly contrasted. I think Jane Austen is trying to highlight this way the importance of learning from adversity and feedback of others, for having a good character. This is the one thing that really endears Lizzy to Mr. Darcy. It shows her how she is taken seriously by him, as opposed to Mr. Collins' flat-out disbelief. Both Mr. Colllins and Mr. Darcy started out thinking well enough of themselves to expect Elizabeth to want to marry them, but one of them radically changes their self-image after the refusal, the other just keeps hinting at Elizabeth that SHE made a mistake. (Doesn't even ask for any reasons, while Mr. Darcy even has the wherewithal to do that in the moment of the shock itself.)

[@elizabethhickman4805]

I am sure Mr. Collins believed his intention to marry one of the Bennett sisters was magnanimous. However, if one of them had married him, she would have heard for the rest of her life how fortunate she was and how he had saved her family from penury.

[@thebuttermilkyway687]

He tells himself (and implies to Mr. and Mrs. Bennet) that he is magnanimously doing them a favor, but this is really a self-deluding rationalization. In fact he thinks he has a captive batch of five young ladies to pick from -- he fancies that one or more of them at least will be desperate and/or dutiful enough to accept him.

[@gurutruecrimeguru1405]

@@thebuttermilkyway687 Well Charlotte was. But she finds ways to be rid of him. It is smart of Charlotte because the role of governess was mostly horrible, servants wouldn't talk to you because you were above them. Family barely talked to you because you were below them, not given much money for your teaching and likely to be raped by the man of the house as a governess anyway.

[@SunriseFireberry]

In terms of her personality getting along with his, Collins should've married Mary. But he didn't consider her.

[@HamsavahiniVajraasthra]

I completely agree😊👍👍👍👍

[@janetsmith8566]

Yes Mary was obviously perfect. But opposites appeal more and there was only room for one obsequious fool in the house.....

[@katiejlumsden]

Very true, Mary and Mr Collins could have gotten on well! I highly recommend The Other Bennet Sister as a good retelling by Janice Hadlow if you're interested in Mary as a character.

[@SunriseFireberry]

@@katiejlumsden Thanx

[@HamsavahiniVajraasthra]

@@katiejlumsden Oh yes sure! I'm going to read that book as well- thanks a million for recommending me that book- I'll definitely read it😊👍👍👍💖

[@AudrinaMystique]

To me, Mr. Collins tends to say out loud what everyone is thinking. The whole "Mr. Bennet is a terrible father and it would be better for the family if Lydia were dead" thing? The whole village was likely thinking it. And, for the time, it was absolutely true, but was very impolite to say so. The whole "you should throw her out and disown her" thing was also something that could salvage at least some of the Bennet family's reputation. Mr. Collins comes across as silly because that's how Elizabeth views him. However, he has a penchant for stating the obvious that people sometimes overlook. In a way, he's kind of a societal barometer.

[@nataliatheweirdo]

im autistic and do view a lot of jane austens characters as autistic coded, (including mr collins) but ive noticed most (if all) that the ones are described as like odd and out of character and rude are the autistic ones- bc they just cant be stuffed to do anything socially xD

[@chocsal]

Exactly our thoughts in this house, @@nataliatheweirdo ! I also slightly wonder if Collins was only interested in marriage to secure the approval of his patroness - did he and Charlotte live *completely* separate lives, or am I reading too much into the performance?

[@nataliatheweirdo]

@@chocsal well charlotte did mention that he spends most of his time either out in the garden or with lady catherine, and when they’re at home they’re in different parts of the house 🤷‍♀️

[@chocsal]

@@nataliatheweirdo Yes, that's what I mean. And perhaps it suited Charlotte just fine, too.

[@happybkwrm]

Yes. Everyone thought the same thing, but he admitted it. And Mr. Bennet WAS a crappy dad.

[@FullyBookedMelissa]

Mr Collins reminds me of Michael Scott from the American version of The Office: Ignorant, a bit delusional, wants to be more impressive than he is, self-important and well-meaning underneath everything but causes harm nonetheless.

[@katiejlumsden]

I haven't seen The Office but I can imagine how Mr Collins would translate into the modern world.

[@Beyoncessister]

Oh my gosh! I came here to say this!!! For years I’ve called him the Michael Scott of Pride and Prejudice 😂😂😂 And you hit it right on the head. 🎉

[@johncrwarner]

As my mother might have said Mr Collins is 25 going on 50 - in his attitudes.

[@katiejlumsden]

Very true!

[@wednesdayschild3627]

Collins was born old.

[@jennifer2161]

Yes, that phrase is spot on. So it's right that he's played by an older actor, especially one as brilliant as David Bamber.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Mr Collins is such a great character. And very worthy of further examination. (Although if he heard one say that his ego would inflate even further!) He is of course very flawed, although not essentially a BAD man, and it would clearly be unutterably tedious to have to actually spend any time with him. But thinking about his youthful age, he is, at least, not an ageist man - he’s the only character in Austen (I think I’m right in saying) who marries a woman older than himself.

[@katiejlumsden]

I think you're probably right on the age front. He is a flawed man and a very interesting one.

[@somyod2u]

In the 1995 tv adaptation of 'Pride and Prejudice ', David Bamber's characterisation of Mr. Collins was nothing short of brilliant.

[@alicecarroll2007]

He was repulsive and comical at the same time!

[@good1day726]

Exactly! it (v1995) stands apart and above as a work of art.

[@jennifer2161]

I agree, David Bamber was perfect. If Mr Collins had been played by a younger actor, the smarmy obsequiousness and misguided over-confidence wouldn't have worked so well. Mr Collins hasn't any of the usual qualities of a young man, no bounce or vigour or fun, so an older actor suits his pomposity and heaviness.

[@kahkah1986]

All that we know about Old Mr Collins, Mr Collins' father, is that he had fallen out badly with Mr Bennet and refused to make it up. Young Mr Collins is basically going the same way; the very first thing we find out about him is that it was a huge struggle for him to be friendly to the Bennets and not continue the family feud *because he didn't know whether continuing a family feud was the right thing or not* (which also means he learnt nothing at theological college). And it isn't disinterested forgiveness on his part either, it is because he has his pretty young cousins over a barrel; he has the pick of the litter, when under normal circumstances he isn't particularly handsome or charming, but because he is the heir they basically have to accept him to keep the house. Once they refuse him, he seems to enjoy rubbing it in; when Lizzie comes to stay the 'shelves in the closet' scene is so absurd because he wants to show off how she has missed out on a des res and hob knobbing with the aristocrat Lady Catherine. Lizzie immediately realizes she dodged a bullet. Later, he deliberately humiliates the Bennets by telling them all about Lydia's elopement and tries to scupper Lizzie's chances with Darcy by inciting Lady Catherine to argue with her. If anything, the moral here is that Lizzie misjudges Mr Collins as much as she misjudges Darcy; stupidity and immaturity are not harmless, they are just unexploded bombs.

[@user-ep9lh8fl7q]

I have sympathy for Mr. Collins. He's trying to live up to his title while not fully understanding all the unwritten rules. He's trying in both ways. Not many people have it all together in their twenties.

[@jeffreykaufmann2867]

David Bamber's portrayal of Mr.Collins in P&P (1995) is masterful acting.

[@BookishTexan]

I enjoy Mr. Collins as a fictional character, but if I were to encounter him in real life I think I would feel about him the same way as Nick does. I don't think that I can credit Collins with trying to do the right thing by his family. I see it as him trying to use his position to coerce one of the Bennett sisters into marrying him. He doesn't really even seem to care which one does. He wants a wife, for career reasons, and sees his cousins as easy prey because of his power over their future. This is why he is so sure that Elizabeth will say yes and that she is just pretending to say no. One way to judge Mr. Collins from the book is in the way the other male characters react to or fail to react to him. At the time in which the book was set there were clear standards for proper behavior for every one, but I think it is clear from most of the male characters disdain for Mr. Collins that they don't think him to be a man worthy of respect. This may be because I am at the part of _Sense and Sensibility_ where Colonel Brandon offers Edward a position as a Rector (?) out of his respect for Edward and because he has been treated unfairly. The contrast between the respect Brandon shows to Edward and the lack of respect most of the men show Collins seems an important clue about how we are to view both characters.

[@katiejlumsden]

Thanks all! He is such an interesting character, and I vary so much about what I think of him. Very interesting to see the differences between Mr Collins and other clergymen in Austen's work again.

[@bebly9797]

Being silly, in a JA's character, doesn't go against being dangerous. For me mr Collins is both. His main role, and why we meet him in the novel, is that he is to inherit the bennet's house, so he is a real threat to the young girls and to mrs bennet. For the moment he has no power of his own so he associates with grand people, living by vicarious power. I don't see him improving; charlotte can only check him sometimes, but he's not humble to be taught by his equal. Beware of silly people: being silly is not being harmless!

[@katiejlumsden]

Very true! Yes, I definitely intended to talk about how his role in the novel is to make the threat of the entail very real - it was in my video plan and I somehow missed it out!

[@marymorris6897]

Excellent analysis.

[@alen7480]

I agree, Jane Austen often talks about power between relations and how some take advantage of them. She is a very severe critic of having to rely on your family and all its pitfalls.

[@gurutruecrimeguru1405]

Charlotte outsmarts him though so she can have his money and a comfortable home and see him as little as possible although she will have to bear his lovemaking.

[@margaretgerdes8328]

I always thought of him as a simpering social climber, brown-noser, and an idiot. He is a misogynist, but his views and dismissive manner are well within the views of the time. I feel like he represents an older digital view of women and their place compared to the other male characters like Mr. Darcy who are meant to be more modern. He is a foil to the more modern views of other characters, in particular Mr.Darcy, in every way. While Mr.Collins never reads novels, talks incessantly, takes marriage relatively lightly, suggests Lydia should be abandoned, gossips, and is never known to do charity Mr. Darcy is the opposite. He is quiet, does not gossip, thinks long and hard before proposing, is well-known for charity, does charities (like rescuing Lydia) that he will not get credit for, and tries to help (rather than ignore) the needy. I think Mr.Collins, like Mrs. Bennet and Catherine DeBourgh, is meant to show how ridiculous the old social order is. Austin is writing this book during Nepoleonic times after all. The context of the times and the social upheaval of the era play a big role here.

[@katiejlumsden]

Good points, thank you :)

[@averagewoman6962]

I think you're being too generous about Collins' marriage proposal to Elizabeth. My feeling was that he felt obliged to be married (didn't Lady Catherine tell him he should be married?) and he lighted on the Bennet sisters because he thought any one of them would fall into his arms in gratitude, and he wouldn't suffer the messy and ego-bruising inconveniences of courtship and rejection. After Elizabeth turned him down, he went for the next easiest target, Charlotte, who was already being called an old maid by her family.

[@alicecarroll2007]

There were three more Bennet sisters he could have pursued! All things considered, I think he and Charlotte were a good match.

[@averagewoman6962]

@@alicecarroll2007 No. Apart from the fact that the other girls were very young and silly and definitely not the sort that would appeal to Lady Catherine, it would have been too embarrassing to go through a list of them. When Elizabeth rejected him, I think Collins probably thought that he didn't want to have any more to do with the family in respect of matrimony.

[@Cotictimmy]

Hi Katie, I LOVED your discussion of Mr. Collins. My favourite conversation forever has been "Can he be a sensible man Sir?" - "I think not my dear. Indeed I have great hopes of finding him quite the reverse." Having said that I love that you give him greater complexity. An interesting aspect of Lady Catherine receiving the idea of Lizzy's & Mr. Darcy's attachment from Mr. Collins is that he is not so perceptive himself - whilst Charlotte ALWAYS felt the presence of a spark between them (right from the first encounter - Charlotte is the smartest person in P&P.) I believe Charlotte would never have wanted to sabotage Lizzy's prospects, so Mr. C must have betrayed Charlotte's confidence to Lady C. It could have been a calculated betrayal, or possibly NOT. It's possible that if Mr C. thought it ridiculous and not possible, then he may have just been wishing to score points & amuse Lady C. by relating a casual remark of Charlotte's.] Timmy W

[@Beckykeenanx]

I remember watching an interview with David Bamber, and he actually says in it that he didn’t think he was going to get the part as he felt he was much too old to play Mr Collins!

[@katiejlumsden]

I think I might agree with him XD

[@knittingbooksetc.2810]

I think that 25 in the 19th century is not young. Even my parents at that age were not young anymore. When I look at old pictures I am always amazed how much older people used to look in the past.

[@katiejlumsden]

To a certain extent that's true, but I would argue that middle class men of 25 at this time period were still considered young - a woman of 25 of the same class might not have been, but a man of Mr Collin's class, at 25, would have only been of age four years, and would been seen to be marrying fairly young at 25. He's younger than most of Austen's heros, and all the talk of 'the right side of 35', etc in Sense and Sensibility suggests that while women weren't really considered young after 25, men were considered relatively young until 35.

[@jenniferbailey1580]

Biology doesn’t change that fast and we know the brain keeps developing until 24. He’s a dude with a barely finished prefrontal cortex. Yes, people were exposed to things like the ubiquitousness of death back then (my aunt and I both have History degrees, she was a teacher and I minored in psychology so our housemates have heard a ton of dialogs on this). Lydia’s age of 15 cannot be taken out of the equation because her prefrontal cortex was in development. Collins is still a man who is learning to use the systems that count costs and understand cause and effect (the stuff like compound interest or developing a daily habit for long term learning or health). My grandmother (who would have been 100 this year) was in the sun more on her parent’s farm... and her brothers, whose main jobs weren’t in the house, more so. Dad (72) and my uncle (from other side) both have visible damage from time outside without sunscreen (uncle on farm, Dad on a road crew and just wandering). Plus we subconsciously age people based on fashion, often. Having now lived through 20, 1/3 of ‘21 my reading of say what Grandma endured in the Dust Bowl has shifted... many of us have visible changes and most of those knew we could get a jar of store brand peanut butter and some crackers (from store or charity), and at least get a few macronutrients!

[@circedelune]

I think he is silly and has no understanding of how he is seen. Even in the letter where he talks about Lydia, I think he meant well. He just couldn’t help revealing the pettiness inside, which most would feel, but would have the good sense and good manners to refrain from voicing. He finds himself so interesting and so wise that he feels anyone could benefit from his thoughts on this, or any other, matter.

[@julieletford5695]

I always expect better from the Clergyman characters. I understand they're human, but to me, they should be a little bit more understanding because of they work for God.

[@PAgirl790]

I feel like it’s Jane Austen’s commentary on the entailment system and her getting a good dig in. That the likes of Mr Collins will take over upon Mr Bennett’s death, how unfair.

[@angelatheriault8855]

I always call Mr. Collins the Odious Mr. Collins and I was completely enamored by David Bamber’s portrayal of him. The fact the he was flawed never bothered me one bit. I reveled in his flaws. I found him completely clueless, pompous and cringeworthy but at the same time enormously amusing. Weirdly enough, I am very, very fond of him. It wouldn’t be the same story without him.

[@AdrianColley]

Bamber's Collins wasn't just odious, he was oleaginous. I could imagine him being a canonical ancestor of Hyacinth Bucket. I preferred the 2005 Collins, who seemed positively autistic, and slightly bewildered that life didn't behave as specified in the owner's manual. He was less fun but much less hateable.

[@angelatheriault8855]

@@AdrianColley While some may regard the odious and oleaginous Mr. Collins objectionable, I confess that I did not. Disguise of every sort is my abhorrence. Nor am I ashamed of the feelings I have related. They are not quite natural nor just but I find I can forgive Mr. Collins his offense so long as he continues to amuse me. Although, it is true he seems to lack a certain ‘gentleman-like’ manner.

[@gurutruecrimeguru1405]

When you think about it it is so disgusting and horrible to think of a man telling a father than he should prefer it if his FIFTEEN year old daughter were dead because she was tricked and seduced by some evil player who just used her for amusement. So terrible how women have been treated regarding things like that throughout history. Lydia was a 15 year old child.

[@kellynch]

My favorite Collins is Malcolm Rennie from the 1980 version. To me, he's lifted directly from the book. He doesn't scream "axe murderer!" the way David Bamber's Collins does.

[@ekaterinaromanenko174]

So is mine!;)

[@janetsmith8566]

Don't you think mr Collins simply did not know women? He had no sisters and no mother, and does absolutely everything by the book, literally. It's as if, in his scholarly manner (which he is), he "read up" on the nature of women and how to propose (probably from some very outdated source) and took it for gospel. Hence his confident references to how he expects her to behave next (to accept him down the line somewhere) and so he should persist with the next dance step, so to speak. His youth ties in with this image- and I must admit I myself have trusted books rather too much in relationships- only to find it's all rubbish!!!

[@launchedathousand]

True, very similar to how nowadays some men seem to think that reading pickup line books means they know how to get women to like and date them. Also those books written back then would have been insufferable as they would have talked about how women were emotional, irrational creatures who were too pure and genteel but needed the logical male brain in order to function 😤

[@katiejlumsden]

Yes, I do think that might be part of it. The only woman he seems to know well (ish) is Lady Catherine, who obviously is so removed from him by rank that I don't think he knows her well, and she's so weird. I can imagine him studying books about women and getting weird opinions from them!

[@Beckykeenanx]

I don’t know, I read his wanting to marry one of the daughters as “oh the family will be so eternally grateful to me, I’m going to look so generous and selfless” also he just goes straight for Jane who he thinks will be the best arm candy 😂 he doesn’t particularly get to know the girls before making up his mind which one he wants to marry.

[@avaeder264]

I think he went for Jane first because she is the oldest. Lady Katherine makes a comment that she is shocked the younger sisters are out and presented to society before the older ones are married. So, maybe that is why he accepted the idea of Lizzie next before of their age. Either Jane or Lizzie would have also been more mature and conservative for Lady Katherine's presence, that that could have been another reason not to pursue Kitty or Lydia.

[@katiejlumsden]

I do think he goes to Jane sort of by default as she is the oldest, then Lizzy the next as she is the next in age. Jane is only 3 years younger than him, but Lydia is about 10 years younger.

[@wednesdayschild3627]

@@avaeder264 he should have asked Mary. They are great. I think Mary likes him.

[@renaerolley5670]

@@wednesdayschild3627: Mary and Mr. Collins had things in common, at least. 🤷‍♀️

[@alen7480]

@RebeccaSweeney Doesn't Mr. Darcy have the same attitude when proposing to Elizabeth for first time? He is very arrogant and presumes she would jump at the chance for marriage, and puts her down even more severely than even Mr. Collins does. Elizabeth outright tells Mr. Darcy that he doesn't really know her and only liked her for her impertinence after she agrees to marry him.

[@MRDEREVKO]

Mr Collins is a very Dickensian character i find. He is very odd, pompous, silly and absurd.

[@KevTheImpaler]

Is he usually played by short men? David Bamber and Tom Hollander are both quite short.

[@janetsmith8566]

I noticed this. He's supposed to be large!

[@katiejlumsden]

Yes, he's not supposed to be short! I feel like they usually try to make him shorter than Mr Darcy so that Mr Darcy can literally look down on him . . .

[@KevTheImpaler]

I see Malcolm Rennie played him in the 1980 series. I don't think he is short.

[@SuzanneU]

I find it interesting that Mr. Collins uses the phrase "demean myself". Jane must have been aware of the two meanings: to behave himself in a particular way, and to denigrate and abase himself. Mr. Collins' behaviour in society is one of continuous personal abasement. Another way that Mr. Collins behaves is to demean those he considers beneath him and expect them to abase themselves to him.

[@TG-mx5wb]

Mr. Collins feels inferior and so he acts superior when he can. That’s why he seeks only the women who aren’t likely to refuse him. That’s why he doesn’t easily accept Lizzy’s refusal. It’s why he’s so caught up with status - increasing his own by doing the ‘honorable’ thing by trying to marry a Bennet while making sure they know he’s doing them a favor or by simpering and being agreeable to the higher status people. It’s why he gossips about Lydia and brings up Mr. Bennet’s parenting and Lizzy’s refusal in that letter. He’s avenging his wounded pride. He seems like a narcissist, possibly covert. Always aware of his inferiority, the status of others, always trying to put himself forward, assert himself where he can, etc. and, consider that his father is still running his life to an extent after he’s died... and that he doesn’t approach Mr. Bennet until Mr. Bennet can do something for him (easily provide him with a wife).

[@jenadams2576]

This was a very interesting video and topic. I tend to think of Mr. Collins as being silly and awkward, but also mostly well meaning. He says things that are not the nicest, but I genuinely think that is because he does not know better. He is proud to be sure, but his pride and actions enabled him to rise up a bit socially by being honored and chosen by Lady Catherine De Bourgh. So he received a reward/recognition (distinguished job) for it and thus positive encouragement. She is also quite proud and since he spends so much time with her it makes sense that he would try to act and think similarly. In the same way his fashion and clothes probably changed a bit when he moved to be in her society and company, it also makes sense that his manners would also grow to resemble hers. But I think his first letter is quite telling about his character. It seems, to me, that he genuinely wants to mend the relationship. He mentions wanting to reach out before, but also did not want to dishonor his own father. It seems that care and concern is important to him so much so that he has spent time thinking about it for a long time (which he also mentions in the letter). Then he wants to come and try and make amends for something that is out of his control which is going above and beyond. I could see another hero doing this and being praised for it (like Edmund Bertram - he would try to make amends if he were in this situation). I think that is one of the kindest acts in all of Austen. Even Mr. Darcy's kind act with Lydia and Wickham is not as truly kind, since he does bear some of the responsibility. He is also thinking of Elizabeth - while he does try to hide it and does not expect anything from it he is still motivated by Elizabeth). Mr Collins didn't do anything to take the estate away from the family, yet he is still trying to do what he can to help them, personally. He is not introducing them to others so someone else can care for them and be responsible. He offers to bear the financial responsibility himself. That is incredibly kind and thoughtful. Another way to look at his character is as representative of the time and customs. So the reason he responds the way he does during the proposal to Elizabeth, and then the letter is simply because he represents the silly and sometimes ridiculous customs of the time. It's also possible that Jane Austen was aware that customs and thus understanding would change (as it in fact has), and thus she created a character to represent the customs and explain the shock and awe of the character's actions. Elizabeth's refusal is not as odd or shocking in today's society. We need Mr. Collins to explain why is it so shocking and odd. Similarly, we need Mr. Collins to explain just how bad Lydia's behaviors are in that time. The rest of the family mentions how it will make the family look bad, but he points out that it is so bad that it would be better if she had died instead. Maria Bertram is treated as though she is dead (socially speaking): she is sent away from society, not even able to live at home and I believe is not visited by her parents. His comments and reactions, while silly and sometimes not very nice, do provide context for readers, which I think you mentioned. Jane may have known that things would change and to preserve Elizabeth's character (her shocking self-awareness, conviction and desire for love and respect) wrote Mr. Collins a little over the top. I really enjoyed this video. Jane Austen writes characters so well and it is fun to think about them. They are not one-dimensional. Thankfully!!

[@katiejlumsden]

Thanks! He's such an interesting character to me; I do agree that his desire to marry one of the Bennet girls is well-founded, and I agree that the nastier sides of him seem different when thought of in historical context. Such a complex character!

[@jimjohnson5739]

Mr. Collins was seeking a wife because Lady Catherine told him he should. Did anyone ever wonder if she did it because she thought this young man who "polishes flattering phrases for the ladies" might attract the attention of her daughter?

[@katiejlumsden]

Interesting! I have never actually thought about that, but I quite like this thought.

[@malissamelrose]

I don’t think so because Lady C was convinced Mr. Darcy was promised to her daughter.

[@annavafeiadou4420]

I will post a comment that I already posted elsewhere with my synopsis of Mr Collins cause it really is my view both on him and his psychic and in Charlotte's choice . Mr Collins is the type of man that of this time that in the hands of a clever woman will become like a well trained pet dog , is not charming and a bit obnoxious but is honest and the safest of all male characters in the book. And in the hands of Charlote who is older than him and at some time she will become a mother figure (which is what he wants psychologically) he will be like clay ready to mold that's why I like him. And as the book progresses we see that's happening in fact he becomes clay to the hands of Charlote personally and Mrs De Bourgh socially which is the only problem in him the fact he lets his patron become a bad "mother figure" influence so he becomes more pompous and insulting socially, but she is not so involved personally in his issues as it is socially so safe again for his wife (no mother in law). So Charlote has a clay in her hands. He is one that won't cheat , won't drink , won't be brutal and in general he cannot really insult even when he does because nobody takes him seriously enough to get insulted also he treats anyone who just shows him some small level of respect with compliments and generally nice. Very safe choice for marriage and I believe a good person deep in heart.

[@veronicaeasterbrook7698]

The chief purpose of Mr Collins in the story line is to provide a reason for Elizabeth Bennett to be absent from Longbourn when she refuses the first marriage proposal of Mr Darcy. The story required that only the two of them should be aware of what had occurred, and this would have been impossible if it had happened at Longbourn, bearing in mind the furore that surrounded the refusal of Mr Collin’s proposal. It was therefore necessary to have a place that Elizabeth would visit and cross paths with Darcy, where he might catch her alone and make his offer. It required some ingenuity on the Author’s part to create Lady De Bourgh, Mr Collins, Charlotte Lucas etc and blend them all into the plot.

[@katiejlumsden]

Yep, I do think this is one of the key roles Mr Collins has in the plot.

[@kthomp38]

The actor who played Collins in The Lizzie Bennett diaries was in his 20s

[@Daventis]

I find it hard to like Mr Collins, but I don't hate him. I see him as a man with no confidence in himself who constantly seeks approval from others. I doubt he had a burning desire to be a clergyman and he's clearly not good at it, but someone in his past told him that was a good role so he went into it. Later, I expect it was Lady Catherine de Bourgh who suggested he find a wife from the family at Longbourn, she would have no compunction about tying off loose ends among her inferiors. So off he went, not because he wanted a wife but he'd been told to do it. and he's easily convinced and not brave enough to stand up to Lady Catherine. So when Lizzie rejected him, his first thought was 'how can I go back to Lady Catherine and tell her I failed?'. I don't think his obedience to Lady Catherine is social climbing as such, but he needs a strong figure at his back and also he's failed at being a clergyman if he falls out with Lady Catherine, the wealthy families of that time donated greatly to their local church and the diocese would come down hard on him if he lost her favour. He's not in a position to care about others because he's constantly searching for what he is and what life is for in the first place. I think Lady Catherine told him the daughters would definitely say yes, and probably told him not to take no for an answer. He didn't choose Mary, Kitty or Lydia because he knew Lady Catherine would never approve of them and they would not show her the proper respect (which would show him as having failed again). So when Charlotte made her play, he sees a way out of the big problem because Charlotte understands that Mr Collins needs someone to think for him and she convinces him that she will not get in the way of that. And later with the letter, we are hearing the words of his influences as well. That Lydia had better have died is surely Lady Catherine's opinion, but he also takes on board that as the clergyman, he MUST provide some teaching and say something correct. Also, Charlotte I think told him about the Bennett daughters being spoiled and uncontrolled to prevent him regretting his marriage, because logically he might come back to thinking he'd acted in haste. And then that opinion goes into the letter too, because it takes everything Mr Collins has to just play the part that everyone's advice has placed him in, and it also shows that marrying Charlotte instead was not a failure on his part but perspicuity. Also, I doubt Mr Collins would tell Lady Catherine of any impending marriage because it would displease her so much. I think it was Colonel Fitzwilliam who was clearly interested in Lizzie but maybe mentioned to Lady Catherine that he backed off because Darcy was so obviously interested in her. And then Lady Catherine maybe interrogated Mr Collins and learned how often Darcy visited, and forced an interpretation out of them. I have a lot more ideas but I've written way too much so I'll leave it at that. I'm loving your discussions.

[@katiejlumsden]

Thanks :) I do like the idea that some of his bad behaviour is due to Lady Catherine - I can imagine her patronage has brought out the worst qualities in him! In Mr Collins's last letter to Mr Bennet, he does say that he has mentioned the likelihood of a marriage between Elizabeth and Darcy himself to Lady Catherine. I always think that it's not Charlotte telling him that the daughters have been spoiled but Lady Catherine saying it in Charlotte's presence and Charlotte feeling she has to agree. That's always in my head but I generally think very fondly of Charlotte :)

[@MauraVH]

What kind of pushed me over the edge to really disliking Collins was his letter about Lydia & the fact that he thought it a bad idea for Lizzy to marry Darcy because his patroness didn’t like it. He kind of gives up his kindness in order to be a reflection of the society he wants to be a part of, finds it important to consider himself happily married (in love, at least), important to be connected to a family with decent manners, and important to see himself as necessary to a person of high rank, and to portray this illusion of the person he wants to see himself as he’ll justify any bad behavior on his part. Had it not been for the letter I would have thought him just silly and annoying

[@charlesiragui2473]

One way in which JA is a great writer is that her characters are not cardboard, they are made up of strengths and weaknesses. Is he a meanspirited, cruel person? No. Does he follow convention doggedly? Yes, to the point of absurdity. Is he capable of kindness? Yes. Is he capable of empathy? No. Does he try to please? Yes. Does he snub people? No. Does he flatter the powerful? Principal characteristic (plans flatteries in his spare time). Does he do so with a scheme in mind? No, he does it because this is what he views as being a good person, being grateful to his benefactors. One point that hasn't been mentioned in this excellent video: he is a clergyman, like JA's father and JA also uses the infamous letter to criticize his lack of Christian love and forgiveness (Mr. Bennett: "That is his notion of christian forgiveness!"). JA thought a lot about what a clergyman should be and more often what they should not be. Mr Collins may thus also be a kind of criticism of the church's failure to hold power accountable and to care for the lost sheep.

[@Cat_Woods]

To me "silly" is not the operative word. It's stupid. Yes, he's pompous and judgmental, but to me the point is he's incapable of learning. Being mentored by Lady Catherine will make him an even worse person as he ages. It already has. He was lucky enough to marry an intelligent woman, and the best she can do with him is avoid his company when she can. It's that kind of stupidity that can't be cured by hard work or study, because it is a stupidity of values. He does not "get" what is worthwhile and what is not. He's only funny because the author can highlight the humor in settings where he can't do much actual harm. He could easily have destroyed Elizabeth's and Jane's chance of happiness by his telling Lady Catherine about Darcy's possible interest in Lizzy. Fortunately, in fiction, that backfires. In real life, I don't think his kind of stupidity would be so harmless.

[@everichardson493]

I like the point that Mr Collins is much younger than he's usually taken to be, But it's erroneous to think Mr Collins is harmless - we simply don't seem in situations where his misogyny and judgemental attitude do harm. The is a clergyman and as such must have an effect in his parish. Lady De Bourgh is already the local busybody who tries to run people's lives and now she has her toady to help her. (Similar to Mrs Proudie and Mr Slope in Barchester Towers.) Imagine the kind of parochial 'care' of a man who doesn't believe women and who thinks a 15-yr-old would be better of dead than eloping with a known seducer. We can only hope that Charlotte will keep him away from his parishioners as much as possible and do some quiet visiting of her own.

[@heathergagnon5125]

At least on the front of telling Lady Catherine it's possible he told her shortly after getting the news without thinking it through, as we know he's not the brightest. That said there are bits where he's at his worst not taking Lizzie's no seriously, the level of self congratulations for his generosity and the choosing mid-crises to insult parenting skills are not great looks, he's a mess.

[@maryh4650]

I also think he gets very excited about being vicariously related to Lady Catherine, through Elizabeth's marriage to Mr. Darcy.

[@AdrianColley]

Mr. Collins overshares his private thoughts and underlistens. I think this explains his apparently-nasty comments. He has also absorbed some all-too-common bad advice about women: persist! As a result, he's both silly and dangerous. His character is an archetype of people with improper breeding (as people used to say), or inadequate social education (as we would say in these enlightened times).

[@davidsaks8752]

Collin's telling Lizzie during his failed proposal that it is by no means certain she will get any more proposals suggests a certain spiteful streak. T^hen there his complete lack of empathy with the Bennets' plight following Lydiagate, where the best he can do is tell them it would be better had Lydia died. He can't helping being stupid, but his lacking a core of basic kindness and consideration shows a darker side.

[@MsWinterlife]

Imagine having to choose a career that you must stay in for life, and that there is so social security in place to support anyone who doesn’t work, and all of a sudden Mr. Collins seems not that bad. After all, a job that pays well enough is worth putting up with, even if you don’t find it fulfilling or mentally stimulating. Many people today stay in jobs that they aren’t particularly fond of (or even whole heartedly despise) just so they could keep a roof over their heads, and only very few lucky ones could honestly say that they really do look forward to work each morning. I guess we now consider relationship and marriage to be very personal choices, but back then it must’ve been the whole family’s business because people often had to depend on their own family in times of need, and so it would be in everyone’s interest to prefer financial security over ideas of romance and love which may just turn out to be no more than fleeting fancy…

[@kansmill]

I think his comment about it having better if Lydia had died has plenty of modern counterparts. In discussions with other mamas who’ve experienced misscarriages, stillbirth, and SIDS it’s amazing how many well meaning people say some of the most hurtful things without intending to.

[@RaineyDayReads]

I honestly really respect Charlotte’s decision to marry Mr. Collins. It must have been really difficult to take that plunge, knowing that your security (and the security of your family, possibly) hinges on linking yourself forever to someone you’d rather avoid.

[@janetsmith8566]

Remember her honest statement that she is not romantic....

[@katiejlumsden]

Rainey, Naomi's Bookshelf made a really interesting video about this if you haven't seen it - I do respect Charlotte's decision too - she gives herself independence in the only way she can.

[@marthawolfsen5809]

Trying to decide whether Mr. Collins or any other Austen character is all "good" or "bad" is missing the full extent of her genius. Mr. Collins really believes he is good-- even as he is often making other people extremely uncomfortable. Most of the humor of his character comes from his inability to understand how he is coming across to others. He has no clue, for instance, that Charlotte married him for purely mercenary motives.

[@cliffdweller990]

For some reason, Mrs. Bennet and Mr. Collins are percieved to be much older than they are in the book. Mrs. Bennet is an attractive woman in her early 40s, and Mr Collins is a socially awkward dude in his 20s.

[@jrpipik]

What you seem to disregard is the fact that Mr Collins is going to inherit the Longbourn estate at the death of Mr Bennet, and Mrs Bennet and his daughters will be out on the street. When Lady Catherine directs Mr Collins to marry, he fixes on his lovely young cousins not so much because he wants to mend the breach, as he puts it, but more because he knows they are over a barrel, and so whichever one he chooses to propose to will surely have to accept him. He can propose to a girl much too pretty and well bred for him because he has such leverage on her. It's not hard to imagine he has not had much success in wooing women and he wants a sure thing. Odious doesn't begin to describe him. For her part, Charlotte "schemes" (the very word Austen uses) to become his wife to move up to the main house of the Meryton area. Austen describes the joy of the Lucas family at the prospect, and Mrs Bennet senses with their every visit that they are measuring for new drapes. Charlotte has long been Elizabeth's poorer friend and one senses she doesn't mind at all the prospect of turning the tables. In setting her cap at Mr Collins, Charlotte is not merely trying to find a place of her own where she can make a decent life for herself; she's angling to be the lady of the estate.

[@EvBarney]

I agree that Collins is a well-meaning social clod. After all, when Lady Catherine advises him to marry, his first act is to consider one of his cousins who will lose their home when their father dies. He says that he wants to secure the sisters' future and mend the family break between his father and Mr. Bennit. A purely selfish person would look for an heiress.

[@coloraturaElise]

Oh, you need to see the 1980 version; it's on Yt in parts posted by Mistress of Pemberley. It's the first one I saw, and has an excellent Mr. Collins! He is closer to the 'grave' Mr. Collins you mention.

[@KR-ue1gd]

Deep down, Mr. Collins suspects his own mediocrity. He pursues "easy prey" brides, women with few prospects who might be grateful for his attentions, because he wants the easy win to prop up his shaky self image.

[@cheerio3847]

My opinion of Collins goes back and forth. It is better when I remember he is only 25, then he is more awkward and trying too hard to follow appropriate morals of the time as he is a clergyman and feels it's his duty. When I fall into the he is older trap, then it's easier to attribute negatives to his character and motives... he makes a good villain in many ways.. that proposal speech from an older man is horrible and mysoginistic but funny from a young man pretending to know more than he does from novels or serialized stories but little practical experience in life. Or just social experiences. At 25 he just needs a back of a lot more seasoning and the right wife could help him grow up to become a much better man.

[@debraleighscott]

Please slow down your speaking. It is very difficult to listen to you when you speak so fast and loud.

[@kelsey1406]

I love Mr. Collins! He’s such a well written character.

[@katiejlumsden]

He is!

[@coloraturaElise]

Yes, I think he is her greatest comic character!

[@ida574]

I always thought that Mr Collins does not have the confidence to have his own opinions. And that he adapts his views to what everyone of a higher rank around him thinks. He sees people compliment others with positive effect, and tries his best to copy their social interactions. I think Lady Catherine De Bourgh hated the thought of estates being entailed away from the females of a family and told Mr Collins this, and maybe also hinted that he should choose one of the Bennet sisters as his wife to make up for it. And that is why he went to Loungbourn, he is swayed to choose Elisabeth because her mother hints at it. Same goes for the letter, I think it is more Lady Catherine De Bourghs words than those of Mr Collins. I think Mr Collins might have trouble reading people and situations and that is the reason why he is such a silly character, because he copies what he has seen others do, but in the wrong setting and without waiting for the right social cues.

[@BlatantlyBookish]

Oh Katie, you've outdone yourself. This video is fantastic! I try to reconcile all these different interpretations of Mr. Collins within the same character because I've viewed him as silly and ridiculous, proud and conceited, socially awkward, well-meaning, and also malicious and vain. And I really do think he embodies all these traits. My favorite interpretations of Mr. Collins are those that see him grow and change as a character. The Other Bennet Sister was brilliant in questioning what Mr. Collins wants out of a marriage, and whether he knew his own feelings on marriage before selecting Jane, Elizabeth, or Charlotte as his prospective bride. The best theory I have of reconciling all of these sides of Mr. Collins is reminding myself that he is young and was not raised with positive parental figures. I think in many ways that his conflicting actions and attitudes are the result of someone trying to come to terms with society's values, his own morality, and his place in the world. I think that it's possible that he treats Lady Catherine as a role model or a surrogate parental figure of sorts, and embodies many of her views and attitudes of society. His association with her accounts for some of his attitudes and actions in my mind.

[@katiejlumsden]

Thanks Marissa! :) He's such an interesting character. I did love the interpretation of him in The Other Bennet Sister. And certainly I think him having Lady Catherine as a role model isn't good!

[@leas4699]

I didn’t like mr Collins from the start. I found him immature and mean spirited. I also think he had a very weak ego and pretended to think highly of himself. I was horrified with his letter to mr Bennett. I didn’t think him silly at all only inadequate.

[@floraposteschild4184]

You'd probably enjoy the 1980 version: certainly the characters are more accurate than any other version. Except, alas, Mr. Collins. The actor who plays him is nearing 50, portly, and plays the character as vain to the point of being threatening.

[@puisquilfautunnom7030]

Your video is really intresting, but slow down a little bit, please ;). It's not that i didn't understand you, but it was impossible for me to retain any information. Still, great video.

[@Pangie77]

And too loud. It was difficult to listen to in a relaxed manner.

[@charlafrederick1245]

Mr. Collin is a great example of Austin using her work as satire on the regency area. He is a prime example of the hypocrisy in the church at the time. Mr. Collins is the last person on earth I would want to listen to sermon from 😂. He was more concerned about pleasing Lady Catherine than actually living a Christian life. The same way Wickham is used to show the ridiculous way people became officers in the militia. Nothing to do with talent, everything to do with money.

[@knittingbooksetc.2810]

I think he is silly, misguided but not a bad person per se.

[@roxiepoe9586]

Charlotte is plain. Lizzy is beautiful. Charlotte is 27. Lizzy is 20. Charlotte has seen all the girls her age married - and she has never had a whiff of a chance. It becomes the unspoken and perhaps spoken assumption of her family that she will be a spinster, and a burden. She may be useful as the on-call babysitter and companion to the entire family, but that is glorified servitude. Plain women have different expectations than pretty ones. Sadly, pretty ones sometimes overshoot their limit, though.

[@FHMS97]

i dont think mr collins is actively malicious in intention when he says some of the questionable things he says (e.g. in his proposal to lizzie or in his letter later), but regardless i definitely do think that his actions can harm. personally i dont feel like his being in his 20s mitigates his ridiculousness and misguidedness--if anything, it makes them all the more important to pay attention to. ridiculous as he is, mr collins is a man, a fact that affords him power that he explicitly and implicitly benefits from (e.g. longbourn is entailed to him, he lives in the parsonage and so can provide the woman he gets married to with an income, etc). if anything, i think his youth amplifies rather than mitigates the harm he can cause. he's young and so lacks sense and a proper education, but because hes a man his lack of sense and education have the power to affect other people's lives: women, of course, but also the people in his parish who he's clergyman to (e.g. he visits the bennets on a sunday instead of tending to his responsibilities as a clergyman). i think Austen highlights so many men in her novels who are all the more dangerous because they have power as men AND theyre young, so they tend to misuse that power (e.g. henry crawford, willoughby, wickham). and though i definitely dont think mr collins is as bad as them--and also henry and willoughby are more nuanced characters--he still needs to be held accountable because he can do damage if he wanted to solely by virtue of the fact that he is a man and so has some amount of power.

[@katiejlumsden]

Very true! He isn't harmless, even though he may not be malicious.

[@FHMS97]

@@katiejlumsden yes, thats it exactly!

[@annieelisas98]

I think we all know a young guy like mr Collins, I really want to know who Jane Austen based the character off! I definitely have a more sympathetic response to him just because he’s a young man

[@coloraturaElise]

There was a clergyman in her neighborhood who is considered to be the model, her cousin Edward Cooper, whom she thoroughly disliked.

[@esmereldakaffeeklatch8812]

Interesting that Lady Catherine thinks she is ALL THAT and Mr. Collins, of course, thinks she is ALL THAT but rank-wise, she's the widow of a baronet at best, right? So she's a big fish but only comparatively - if she were to swim out of her little area of the lagoon, she would quickly be seen as a rather... smallish fish indeed. And why are two daughters of an earl only able to find husbands among the gentry?

[@happybkwrm]

Well, she IS his patroness, his livelihood depends on her. As for LC and Darcy's mother, I think perhaps they were poor in cash.

[@MichaelaDrechselova]

The letter Mr Collins sends after Lydia's elopement is awful. Yet, I still think it is the effect of his education and, even more so, his company. The things he wrote in that letter sound very much like something Lady Catherine would say after hearing of the elopement. Mr Collins’s father died. Lady Catherine is of a higher class, she is an example for him and he truly admires her. No wonder, she gives him the attention he craves so much. Yes, he shouldn't have written such things. He also never had the chance to realize that might be the case. All that said, he and his silliness are dangerous. As a clergyman, he has a great effect on wide society, even if we don’t see much of that in the book. That will be even more the case once he inherits. He’s in a position of power and he has no real empathy. He is silly, young, and just doesn’t know better. But I don’t personally think he’s harmless. Thank you for this video. I enjoyed it so much! Would you consider making more about other Austen characters, such as Willoughby? 😊

[@katiejlumsden]

It's true - I can imagine Lady Catherine makes him much worse than he is, even while Charlotte tries to make him better! And yes I would love to make one of these about Willoughby - putting that down on the list for next year!

[@Druzica18]

You mean you haven't seen 'Bride and Prejudice' with Aishwarya Rai? It's a Bollywood-style adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, and the actor who plays Mr. Kholi (Collins) is pretty young-looking, and HILARIOUS. If you have not seen it already, it's a must!

[@rachy5384]

I think Mr Collins is a very well written character. He's silly and certainly misguided but I like to think he means well. Even after that horrendous letter in which he writes that it would be better if Lydia died than eloped and he blames her parents for being bad parents he tries to say he can absolve them of their responsibility by thinking Lydia's nature to be naturally bad. I do think that his idea of proposing to one of the Bennet girls because he will have the estate entailed onto him and he doesn't want to rob them of their home is actually him trying to be kind. It did strike me on this re-reading that he is 25 years old and realising that did make me feel a bit more inclined to think well of him... He's younger than me. I felt that with Charlotte's influence in marriage she might be able to redirect him to be slightly less ridiculous in future and teach him social norms which no one has ever taught him before. It does make sense that Charlotte is older than him. I feel that as he's not vicious he could be improved in time and something of his pompous nature could be calmed and softened. I don't think him out of reach of change or amendment. He makes me laugh throughout the book, but mostly I do find him harmless and sometimes his motives to appear to have a sort of kindness at their base

[@katiejlumsden]

He is such an interesting character. I do hope he will be a bit more sensible in the future!

[@vickiamundsen2933]

i will address the book Mr. Collins, though I dearly love David Bamber's portrayal (that smarmy grin!) He is a very ordinary man of his times in every sense. He is complacent, content with the social order, judgmental though not viciously so, and has absolutely no notion that women are actual human beings. He is all output and no input (Lady Catherine's every word being the exception, of course.) And I feel that marrying Charlotte may be the one thing that turns him into a halfway-decent human being. I personally would be driven mad in short order by his incessant blather.

[@judiemeierfranz4329]

I'm really late to the party here. I don't like Mr. Collins, but don't hate him. He's silly and full of pride, tries to force how he wants to be viewed onto others he sees as "less" then himself. I've seen this behavior in business. Yes-person to management or upper management and condescending to those below a management position. Seeking to align with a certain "class". Mr. Collins is a man of all times 😀. I feel Lizzy Bennetts ability to laugh at certain behavior helped her to cope w living in a society that demeans women even when they're brighter then some men like Mr. Collins. We see him thru her eyes - pompous, boring, bowing to Lady Catherine... I think his swipes at Mr. Bennett about Lydia was his mean petty side - insulted by Lizzys refusal and her Dad's supporting it, he takes his revenge where he can; he's rather sad that way.

[@roden70]

I think it is difficult to give a verdict on mr. Collins from the morality and 2021 view of the first world. The mindset in his own era was so very different. The position of woman was very different. A girls virtue was everything. And still even today there are cultures that perform honour killings and where the dishonour of a girl reflects on her own family. So there are so many things to take in consideration when trying to figure out mr. Collins.

[@seanwalsh5717]

16:28 I interpret Mr Collins as honestly well-meaning towards everyone all the time (despite his other vices). I agree that he asks for Elizabeth's hand in part because he wants to do the right thing for his extended family. He has very bad judgement though, obviously. Being more well-meaning than most, however, he deserves some credit. Most of the other characters lack this "virtue". 26:09 I think the infamous letter is also well-meaning, in that he is trying to express what is best for the family as a whole AND Lydia (it would have really been better, he thinks, that Lydia died instead for both good of the family and Lydia herself, from his Regency perspective).

[@bettymalheiro2907]

Would like to make a suggestion. When you're giving a talk in which you analyze something, can you please speak a little slower. I came upon your video interested in your analysis of Mr. Collins, but could pick up very little as you spoke so quickly, it was difficult to remember what you said in the previous sentence. Sorry, comes from being an admin assistant. Detail needs to be spoken at a much slower rate than just general conversation.

[@alen7480]

Wait, so Mr. Collins is apparently creepy for not taking the first proposal rejection and believing a second proposal will be positive? Yes, because this didn't happen exactly in this way to Elizabeth from Mr. Darcy in the very same book! Also, Mr. Bennet is an extreme hypocrite. He first rejects Lydia entering his home but says Mr. Collins is a cruel for saying the same thing as Mr. Bennet and the rest of village about Lydia just a few pages before? I admit that the "death is better" line is a bit much, but we often forget that Mr. Collins is family to the Bennets and has the same tendency to exaggerate (something Elizabeth and her father frequently do). It is funny, at the ending of the book, Elizabeth brings up all these reasons why Mr. Darcy and her are a good match, ironically, the very same things Charlotte brings up about Mr. Collins being a good match. In many ways, Mr. Collins and Mr. Darcy are good parallels for each other. Both are socially awkward, with good hearts but raised to be a certain way, both coming into financial advantage, though from different means. Jane Austen likes using parallels in all her stories, both in character portrayals and even writings. For example Elizabeth says it is impossible for Mr. Collins and Charlotte to marry (of course not impossible since it happened). Later she repeats the word impossible saying it is impossible Charlotte should be happy (also proven wrong when Elizabeth finds Charlotte happy). Charlotte even says she can soften some of Mr. Collins worst attributes, the same thing Elizabeth says about Mr. Darcy near the book's ending. I am glad you brought up the age thing. I think, considering all the advantage of his wealth and meeting Elizabeth (he admits she bettered him) Mr. Darcy is not that much better, although admittedly more suited for Elizabeth. Interestingly Mr. Collins admits Charlotte bettered him too. Considering their own fathers have their own faults (somewhat paralleled in their husbands) both women sort of understand what is most suitable to them, and for Charlotte, Mr. Collins is most like her silly father. It is likely that Mr. Collins is going to mature with Charlottes sage advice, although I find that women tend to have too much influence in his thinking, so I hope Charlotte is the only woman he listens to (and the only one that seems to really care for him). I am sure Mr. Collins and Charlotte have a deep regard for each other that the story only hints at it. Charlotte, when thinking of Mr. Collins says something to the effect that his feelings for her "must" be temporary. Why would she care if she didn't want him too? And of course Charlotte is pregnant by the end of the novel, which is a pretty strong indication that in the few months they have been intimate. There are other hints, that Charlotte shares personal information of Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy with her husband for example, that there is more intimacy than Elizabeth cares to admit (the story is mostly from her point of view after all). Rereading the book several times, I am more and more convinced that Mr. Collins is not as bad as Elizabeth and Mr. Bennet make him out to be (and they are very unreliable judges of character, both mischaracterizing Lydia's affections and stupidity, Mr. Darcy's character, and Mr. Wickham's). What is more, Mr. Bennet is a terrible father (I think all parents come off as wanting in all Jane Austen's books, the most consistent theme I have ever seen throughout) and is responsible for Lydia's behavior and Elizabeth's own opinion of Mr. Collins. She finds him odd, but only wonders if he doesn't have sense, but once her father says he doesn't, it is the only way she sees him. Jane, I think balances out the view a bit more equitably, realizing Mr. Collins is silly, but not vicious (and who ISN"T silly in Pride and Prejudice?)

[@rearadmiraldoublezero8473]

I'm in the strongly negative camp. You mentioned the "death of Lydia letter". No means no and "when sanctioned by your parents"...yikes! Also, when Elizabeth tells him not to go up to Mr Darcy unintroduced at the ball. Talk about a general distain for the feelings/views of others. Even by some miracle he was right, it is her home ground. He should defer to the local expert. He could have waited 5 seconds and been introduced by Elizabeth or her mother. But nope the Collins knows ALL. And makes sure you know he knows ALL! Maybe it's my inner puritan talking but I don't find him funny at all... except maybe Matt Smith's version.

[@katiejlumsden]

Mr Collins is a very interesting character. I vary so much on my opinions of him.

[@birgitpost3675]

I don't think that Mr. Collins is either well-intentioned or really trying because, as Austen puts it: "Mr. Collins was not a sensible man, and the deficiency of nature had been but little assisted by education or society; the greatest part of his life having been spent under the guidance of an illiterate and miserly father...."

[@asdabir]

To me, Mr. Collins is sort of a symbol or the result Jane Austen’s dislike of pomposity and taking oneself too seriously. He is not evil, and in his eyes, tried to do the right thing, but is extremely annoying to anyone reasonable.

[@katiejlumsden]

I can certainly see that!

[@susanstein6604]

I can’t think of anyone less spiritual or less suited to offer guidance or comfort. Why is he a vicar? Is that what Regency vicars were like?

[@strll3048]

I love your different perspectives on Mr. Collins. The value you placed on Charlotte's listening to him, after his rejection from Elizabeth, also made me think of the fact that he grew up without a mother and under a miserly, difficult father. Perhaps it was the only woman who appeared, at least, to like him and not merely tolerate him? It also seems true, as other commentators in the past have pointed out, that he is the voice of the middle class conventional society which was cruel to women. It appears that Mr. Collins echoes that society, because it is the only way for him to find acceptance, of sorts, but never love. So how can he be expected to act through love, when he does not seem to have any directed towards him? This may explain his cruel comments on Lydia, which I think is the worst of him, as far as I can recall.

[@lasalleman6792]

I never thought of Mr Collins as a predator. He's mostly just silly.

[@maijuk802]

I like how you warned about spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the book. I completely agree: anyone who hasn't read it, should go and read it. Pride and Prejudice is marvellous!

[@katel19]

I think that letter makes him appear more badly as he turned a bit worse in trying to get his revenge at the Bennett’s for being refused, so now he acts smug.

[@ShariSSTalk]

mr collins is, in his own way, as selfish as Lydia. he is intent upon himself almost exclusively & cares not for the realities of others.

[@jacquelinemcmenamin8204]

In some ways Mr Collins is just as trapped by society as the Bennet sisters. It’s interesting that Charolette takes him on. It leaves an untold story as to how they would fair in future. How would Elizabeth continue to be Charolettes friend when she becomes Mrs D’Arcy? Would Charolette change him? He shows no family loyalty in that letter. He couldn’t wait to rub Mr Bennett nose in it by saying “ I’m very glad I’m not part of your family”. In ways he’s carrying on the disagreement his father had with his uncle.

[@katiejlumsden]

I can imagine Charlotte maybe improving him as they get older together.

[@maryh4650]

There were really only 2 Bennett girls who were eligible to marry Mr. Collins, the others were too young. Charlotte was therefore next in the pecking order for marriage proposals.

[@coloraturaElise]

Mary was 18, which was not too young. Lydia comments how Jane, who is 22, is almost an old maid, because girls in those days married quite young.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Loved this, what a great analysis of one of my favourite characters! Mr Collins is just one example of how skilled Jane Austen was at creating unique characters that fulfill so many different functions in a story.

[@katiejlumsden]

Thanks :) He is such a complex characters!

[@MoselleGreen]

I agree that Mr. Collins is well-meaning but clueless. I'm socially awkward myself so I tend to make allowances for him. I think he's on the Asperger's spectrum. There's a book called "So Odd A Mixture" about him and other Austen characters possibly being Aspies.

[@katiejlumsden]

I have indeed heard this suggested before.

[@alicecarroll2007]

Thank you for this most interesting perspective!

[@lubnaqureshi2853]

I do not believe that Mr. Collins proposed to Elizabeth as a kind favour; he just believed the Bennet girls were in no position to refuse him.

[@jessicaplumpton918]

“Pride and Prejudice and Zombies wasn’t great.” Blasphemy, I tell you. Pure blasphemy 😂

[@eyrecester]

Pertinent points being made here, especially about age and portrayal. A thoroughly enjoyable video, for which I want to thank you.

[@katiejlumsden]

Thanks :)

[@zuzanka1981]

So his reaction to Lydia's elopment is not that dissimilar to that of Fanny Price - (at least she didn't write a letter, she only thinks that) it would be preferable for Maria Bertram to die rather than abandon her husband and run away with Henry Crawford.

[@katiejlumsden]

You see, I do wonder about that sentence in Mansfield Park - I'm not clear if Fanny is thinking that it would be best for Maria to die, or that it would be easier for all the rest of her family, including her, to die, rather than cope with the disgrace.

[@seanwalsh5717]

@@katiejlumsden Either way, Fanny thinks (without irony) that it might be better for people to die than to do or suffer something so shameful.

[@etherealtb6021]

For some reason, I also ignored how young Mr. Collins is, probably influenced by all of the P&P series and films I've seen. I really liked the 1980versiin, but it has been awhile.

[@tillysshelf]

A young man, proud, socially awkward and oblivious to what people think of him, with an education that was deficient in certain areas despite being ostensibly adequate, proposes to Elizabeth Bennet without ever considering that she might refuse him... I just read in one of Jane's letters a reference to an acquaintance who said "It would give me particular pleasure to have an opportunity of improving my acquaintance with [the Austens] with the hoping of creating to myself a nearer interest but at present I cannot indulge in any expectation of it." She writes "it is therefore most probable that our indifference will soon be mutual, unless his regard, which appeared to spring from knowing nothing of me at first, is best supported by never seeing me." (Letter 11, 1798) It definitely reminded me of Mr Collins and his imagined affection! I think that he has always known about the Bennet household and has cherished an odd romantic expectation that he will marry one of them when he can, so he goes expecting that they will think the same of him. 25 is still so young and adaptable - we see Mr Darcy change, and generally people being influenced for better or worse by those around them is a big theme in Jane Austen. I can imagine that Charlotte is constantly working to improve Mr Collins, and maybe sees a better side to him, hence sharing her private views on the Bennet family, but her influence is counteracted by Lady Catherine.

[@katiejlumsden]

That definitely does remind me of Mr Collins! He is an interesting character and I hope he does improve.

[@Eliot832]

I just read my first Dickens, Our Mutual Friend, at your recommendation and I loved it (I watched your video series on it as I went, and it was a great help in providing context)! I studied Literature in school but I always avoided Dickens because I had some prejudices about what this old white man's writing must be like... what a lovely thing to be wrong about! I'm buddy reading Dombey now and I'm so fascinated by his treatment of women and specifically Edith, I wonder whether she featured in your dissertation on femininity in Dickens? Anyway, if you haven't already made it, I'd love to see a video of you ranking Dickens novels and comparing what you like/dislike about each. Thank you for introducing me to a new favorite author!

[@katiejlumsden]

Yay I'm so glad to hear you loved Our Mutual Friend! And I hope you like Dombey and Son, it's so wonderful. Edith did absolutely feature in my dissertation on gender in Dickens a lot! I'd say a good chunk of my dissertation was taken up with Edith Dombey and Lizzie Hexham alone - two of Dickens's most interesting women! So, there isn't a video on me ranking Dickens but there are 14 ;) Here's the playlist kzbin.info/aero/PLw2Mjecd2B-NJnXjqG86h_tuwciMlCtwY These are quite old videos though, so some day soon I would like to make an updated (and briefer_ ranking in just one video.

[@crazichickify]

Mr Collins was so ridiculous and sometimes annoying to me. But now i have a soft spot for him bc my boyfriend reminds me of Mr Collins in some mannerisms.

[@PaulfromChicago]

I've thought of Mr. Collins is a proto-Victorian surrounded by Regency people.

[@dolorescordell129]

Yes, it is through Collins that Elizabeth meets Darcy's aunt Lady Catherine DeBourgh - who is at least as repellant as any relative of the Bennet family! Maybe Darcy realizes that not all of HIS family relations are so admirable either!?

[@happybkwrm]

THANK YOU. I have said that for years.

[@neusvillegasalba8419]

I think Mr Collins's letter after Lydia's elopement is crucial in order to make him a much more rounded character. At the beginning of the novel we may see him as harmless, we think that maybe he means well, although he is self-centred. Later on, he may have changed (he is perhaps unhappy and embittered), but it is our vision of him what really changes: we now hate him.

[@katiejlumsden]

I do think the letter is very important to the interpretation of his character.

[@constancecampbell4610]

I’ve always thought Mr Collins served the important function of letting modern readers see how misogynistic the property laws of the time were and, of course, he reinforces the tension around the need for the Bennett sisters to marry well enough not to be homeless. Oh, dear. That was a sentence as long as one of Mr Collins’s.

[@mouseketeery]

It wasn't the law, generally. The entailment was a particular clause put in to the property's inheritance by one of Mr Bennet's forebears. It wasn't the run-of-the-mill or standard situation. Lady Catherine comments on her family having seen no need for such an arrangement.

[@constancecampbell4610]

@@mouseketeery Interesting. I have been a bit confused by Austen’s women who can not inherit brushing up against very wealthy matriarchs who have all the power of the purse.

[@lisakaz35]

I think discussing Mr. Collins in terms of his functions in the book is the right place to start. I feel he's a sort of barometer on the silliness and seriousness of aspects of culture at the time among those gentry types. Maybe his functions dwarf development of character to an extent. I'm not sure if the book suggests this or the variety of ways he's been portrayed. I thought the 2005 version about right. A little film backstory on him might have helped the viewer see him better, though his conventionality comes across strongly. His letter about Lydia's elopement and harsh statements to me reflect the views of society, including the preferred notion Lydia die than shame all of her sisters. Given what I believe was a staunch view about women of any sort of rank protecting their purity prior to marriage, it makes me wonder how Lydia could have cast that off. Did she remain that ignorant not to know that she shouldn't have sex with Wickham before marriage? How could she miss that?

[@sarah4hp]

I feel that he is a man that wasn't gifted with much intelligece or talent, but was fortunate enough to find himself in the good graces of a vain, silly and very well off and powerful woman who liked the constant flattery and groveling. He then gets a very inflated sense of his own importance and standing in society. He is also very petty and cruel to the Bennets and seems to enjoy and revel in their horrible situation because his pride was hurt by Elizabeth's rejection of his proposal. To be fair he seems like he is good and kind to his wife, and I don't think he would be a cruel husband or father. Yeah, that is about as positive as I can get about him 😂🤣😂

[@katiejlumsden]

He is such an intriguing character, it's true!

[@heathersealey592]

I quite like Mr. Collins. I don't think I ever realized that he was that young, but I always appreciated his sense of duty to his cousins. He's ridiculous, and you're right that he's young and doesn't really understand the world, but he seems to have a kind heart. Sometimes.