Let's talk about PLOT TWISTS in Dungeons and Dragons

[@namelessspook7987]

I've honestly got nothing to add. I'm just trying to help the algorithm along. The community needs more of these system agnostic videos that can work in any game and any setting. Very nice work as always.

[@TalesArcane]

Hey, I always appreciate a comment - it's just nice to know there's real people on the other side of the screen! And yeah, system agnostic is the way to go - while D&D is a useful keyword, most of my content could work across any system now, I hope.

[@namelessspook7987]

@@TalesArcane which is why I've always enjoyed it. Keep up the good work.

[@TheEncouragementKid]

we love people like you helping out the algorithm

[@ruanvermeulen6527]

Fantastic content is really good to get the tought process going. I had one of my players over for a New years party, and just talking about the game, he said, "Imagine if...."nailing my plot twist to the T. 2 sessions later, the reveal came. The look on his face when he realised he called it and was right is why I play this game.

[@TalesArcane]

I love this! I think some of my favorite plot twists are the ones where the players guessed it in advance, or were at least close to uncovering it.

[@mathmusicandlooks]

Plot twist done right

[@mathmusicandlooks]

For any major plot pivot-point that I have planned for the party, I try to make sure it is well foreshadowed first. Give one or more players an opportunity for an obscure vision or put them in a situation that mirrors what is to come. My players uncovered a secret that their country’s doctors guild had a major conspiracy, they were necromancer planning a coup. What they didn’t know is 3/5 of them were already “unliving” after they had visited doctors. In one city, they exposed one of the doctors, and in the middle of the battle, one of the PCs failed a charisma save to keep her own will and was instructed that she was charmed and felt compelled to keep the doctor safe. (My players played along quite nicely.) The BBEG was a lich who could potentially turn 3 of the party members against all the others, and I didn’t want that coming out of left field. Talk about dissatisfying. But my players ended up discovering 1 session before the big boss fight that 3 of them were unliving and could potentially be controlled. At that point it was no longer a surprise, but still served beautifully to put the pressure on and raise the stakes of the final battle. In the end, only the character with the highest charisma failed her saving throw (the exact same player, hah), and even then my lvl 6 party defeated a horde of zombies+3 necromancers +the lich AND kept the king alive and safe in the meantime. It was NOT how I planned it, but I would not have it any other way.

[@TalesArcane]

Thanks for commenting, mate! That's a perfect illustration of how a plot twist can be uncovered early and end up being all the better for it - I genuinely prefer when that happens, sometimes, because the players always assume that was my plan the whole time, and they get such a kick out of successfully finding out the twist. "It was NOT how I planned it, but I would not have it any other way" really sums up how the best games often feel.

[@jimmybrook7119]

Wow!

[@whiskeySe7en]

Ooooh hell yes. Thank you commentor for getting a video on this topic. Something I didn't know I wanted this bad.

[@dario5178]

Spoilers for Wild beyond the Witchlight: In my game there is a big twist where it turns out the Fey queen my player is trying to save is actually Tasha the witch and the adoptive sister of the evil hags that usurped the throne. My player (it’s a one player 1 DM game) was excited when she figured out part of the secret. Can’t wait for the full reveal.

[@Grimlore82]

Love these long form videos!

[@TalesArcane]

Glad to hear it, mate! Got another more scripted one coming later this week that I'm excited for too - they're a lot of fun to make.

[@Grimlore82]

@@TalesArcane oh, as we share a taste for the darker themed stuff... Check out Shadowdark RPG... Kickstarter starts Feb 28th. Arcane Library is the author, and they made a trailer the other day for KZbin. You mentioned some interest so I thought I'd keep you in the loop. 👊

[@silverturtle1105]

The text at the beginning where you said you'd ramble gave me an idea if videos like this are successful. I like the nebulous free-form thought experiment, and wonder how a playlist of "Ramble with me" series would go. You just kind of start with a topic and go with it. As a forever DM (and recent switch to Pathfinder), the system agnostic vague ideas still work great for me.

[@muker83]

What I've noticed is that it's better to make a plot twist that benefits the party, then the other way around. If you want players to interact with your NPCs and not be murder hobos, the best you can do is not turn those NPCs on them.

[@TalesArcane]

100%! I think, if you are going to do an NPC betrayal, it's best to do it maybe ONCE in the length of a campaign, and to also make it justified and interesting as a character moment. A really random NPC betrayal, where the NPC just wanted some gold and didn't have any remorse, is waaaay less fun than a nuanced NPC who likes the players but feels under some kind of pressure or conflict where they have to assist the BBEG.

[@sydneysincere1311]

One twist I did was when I had a little girl crying and lost looking for her brother in a tourist town marketplace. PCs helped the little girl who suddenly sees her brother being dragged by a suspicious NPC from previous and runs after him. The girl and PCs witness the brother get murdered by Sus NPC thru a window. Then the murderer gets away. Little girl cries but invites the PCs back to her family's small camp/village where it is all revealed that a master demon of deceit and illusion that is causing everything they witnessed including the little girl, the brother, the Sus NPC, and the small village wakes them up with an ambush attack and big fight that night when they rest They never saw it coming!

[@Bluejayhunt]

I’ve been building to a big reveal (not such a twist) but yeah… it is difficult so far haha. This was really useful - also didn’t think this was rambley at all!

[@hellodolly7989]

Great Stuff! Plot hooks seem cool after watching movies or playing games but there’s a lot more to think about during a ttrpg lol

[@Teraclon]

Oh no... my players will never see it coming... 😈 Thank you once again for the great tips and insight!

[@TalesArcane]

Happy to help, mate! I always appreciate the kind words 🙏

[@millionsofbooks]

I have a session coming up and I'm so excited for my first plot twist of this campaign to happen. One of the characters has been "changed" (with bts work with the PC) due to "Chaos Magic". The others have no idea and I can't wait to see their reactions the day of because they haven't figured out the chaos element yet. Loved this video!

[@maxherzog3287]

Really enjoy your content and the long form videos!

[@b0baf00t8]

Good advice. Thanks

[@cadenceclearwater4340]

Love the disclaimer 😅❤

[@BAMWB]

Thank you so much!! I'm a first time DM, and the campaign I'm writing has a handful of very significant plot twists. You've provided some really useful and very eloquently explained advice. You clearly know your stuff!

[@TalesArcane]

Hey, that's very kind of you to say! I've still got a lot to learn, but I'm glad I can share what I'm learning with other DMs as I go along 👏 Good luck with all the games to come!

[@dgthall]

An excellent review of a tricky topic. if you hadn't added the note a the beginning i wouldn't have thought of it as rambling at all. :) I particularly like the focus on stuff (plot twists, reveals, etc) being for the players instead of (just) the DM. This is something i have run into several different times and it is important for me to keep in mind as I try to resume the COVID-hiatus game where I want to get to reveals that have waited literally decades IRL. Fortunately, in the pre-COVID times I laid some really good groundwork, which included making it clear how relevant it was to the characters.

[@Griff1011]

I don't mind the rambling personally. When I watch D&D content, my ADHD really turns on and I'll tune out for like 1-3 minutes thinking about my own sessions or settings. Something about your videos makes it feel easy to tune back in without feeling like I've completely missed how we got from A to B while I wasn't listening. Also, you should not be able to rock every facial hair style as well as you do, it simply isn't fair.

[@TalesArcane]

That's really good of you to say, thank you! I'm still finding my feet with my presentation style, so it really means a lot to get feedback like this. And yeah, I've just realized that this channel is now documenting my beard growth in real-time 🤣 We'll see how long it takes for the moustache to make a comeback.

[@loganpiper734]

Good stuff

[@vinimagus]

Love the video. You do very well either way i.e. whether you are doing something more scripted or more rambling. Thanks so much, V

[@KhumboSharma]

i've been heavily foreshadowing a major plot twist that I think should be pretty clear in my game. The player that this affects most keeps saying things like "I don't enjoy this" or "I don't get it" and I'm not sure what I should do, if I should keep the ship going as is or not. Maybe the player will enjoy it after it's more clear, but I don't know whether they will or not with their constant complaining. Unfortunately this twist and the plot as it's been going on has already been so far into play, I can't easily write around the events that have already happened. It's only been two sessions that this stuff's been going on for, so not that long, but long enough that it's already got a major impact on the plot. On the one hand the plot twist seems to be hated by the player experiencing it, and on the other hand I'd have to not only write entirely new sets of story engagement beats for the player but also would have to explain what's happened before (pretty much impossible in-setting) I really don't know what to do (please don't insult me for lack of imagination)