Let's Talk About... VS Directive Weapons | Planetside 2 Gameplay

The new Anti-Material Rifles are now on the live server, and its safe to say that they have arrived to mixed reviews. Today, we are going to talk about their live server performance, and the stumbles that can occur when you aim to create faction specific weaponry. If you enjoyed the video backhand that like button! Feedback is always appreciated.
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PREVIOUS CONTENT
• Ask Cami Anything #2 | A Long Overdue Return ►► • Ask Cami Anything #2 |...
• The New AMRs... And the Duality of Faction Specific Weapons | Planetside 2 Gameplay ►► • The New AMRs... And th...
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#planetside2 #planetside2 #camikaze78

[@soldierhobbes1182]

You know you've played too much on Connery when you recognize half the names that pop up on Cami's kill feed.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

It's a humble little home, that good ole Connery (when it works).

[@midrovar5811]

come to emerald, would love to play with camikaze XD

[@MikeP5830]

The nerfs basically signified that the mouth-breathing portion of the PS2 reddit (but I repeat myself here) have won. Everything that made the heat mechanic powerful (infinite ammo, lower downtime, higher uptime) can be replicated by certain implants, ext mag, and ammo belt. They were never powerful enough to warrant the nerfs in the first place, and the uptime/downtime advantages were literally the whole point of those weapons. The nerfs need to be reverted completely, all the arx guns need a full mag's worth of ammo at minimum, and the manual calibration option seen on the obelisk. If an NC main like me can recognize how dumb the nerfs were, anyone else can

[@theonlymann1485]

exclaming that you can replicate the behavior by using this attachment, this implant, this suit slot only signifies that the betel was beeter than those options by mounting other things on that slot(namely nanoweave, athlete,[no attachment options]) while the nerf is partially reverted to take 5% loss instead of the 10% before, and skoroios doesnt loose any mag capacity, it still is kinda... nerfed in the process, and most of it was hit together with the nerf for betelgeuse.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

Uh... No they don't. The heat mechanic is totally unique and is not properly replicated by anything. Extended Magazines come with the opportunity cost of using up your rail attachment option. Scavenger is useless and comes with the opportunity cost of the fact you aren't using Assimilate, or Survivalist, or whatever other implant you would actually want on, just to get a tiny partial reload on the off-chance you can get a kill with your pistol. The heat mechanic is, as it is right now, perfectly balanced. It doesn't need buffing. It doesn't need changing. It is absolutely fine. Watch the video, Cami isn't struggling to get kills with these weapons, and neither should you. *They are fine*

[@MikeP5830]

@@Megan-ii4gf NC directive weapons either start out with extended mag or have an option to do so, with ammo belt they can reload faster than the base weapon or remove the penalty for ext mag. TR's big schtick is massive mags to begin with, and can sometimes get an even bigger one and still run ammo belt. That's WITHOUT actively trying to replicate the heat mechanic with scav. VS arx weps can't run ammo belt or extend their mags, and most of them are already based on guns that lack DPS. Ruining the one thing they used to be good at just because betel users know how to control engagements is brain-dead game design

[@Megan-ii4gf]

@@MikeP5830 That's all well and good except for the part where I never use ammo belt or extended mags because that would mean not using grenade bandolier, advanced shield capacitor, flak armour, or auto repair on my NSO - and would mean no laser sight, forward grip, or angled forward grip. You have to intentionally gimp your weapons in order to run extended mags, or gimp your loadout to run ammo belt. I will not concede the "lack dps" argument because these weapons are extremely controllable. I repeat, the vanu directive weapons are actually balanced for once and are perfectly useable. Don't try to make them into broken farming tools.

[@MikeP5830]

@@Megan-ii4gf Concerns that ext mag will gimp you are obsolete; either a barrel attachment can compensate, ext mag is in the ammo slot, the arx gun in question already has a particular attachment built in, or it's a combo of the 3. Ammo belt over ASC isn't a huge sacrifice with maxed out survivalist. And thinking accuracy is a good tradeoff for DPS on the VS arx guns is nonsensical. With a little practice and the right attachments, the TR and NC counterparts can easily have both. You can repeat yourself, but it doesn't make you right.

[@Garlan4]

as much as i think this video is very open in discussing this topic from someone who is a NC main (the whole VS comunity thanks you) despite this, i dont think the entire Planetside 2 comunity will have a sudden change of heart about VS weapons. The whole etc etc will continue for a long time for the simple fact they became a meme more than an actual opinion based on personal experience by the players. We still have new players who got teached that VS players are easy life cause their weapons

[@kitsune_bot1654]

The best part about NSO is that we have multiple op directive weapons that will never get nerfed because only a handful of people have them. Long live the newton!

[@CAMIKAZE78]

I'm all for making sure these conversations are had. I may be an NC main, but I care much more about the ongoing health of the game and I like voicing my thoughts on the overall fairness of the game. Cheers for sharing your thoughts mate.

[@noble_lemon]

im playing nso and was killed with betel pretty often. but can't say same thing about butcher or godsaw. why so?

[@Garlan4]

@@noble_lemon point is different: name anithing other than the betlegeuse in the VS arsenal that "feel" op. cause the only conplain for the comunity merge on the betlegeuse. i can name multiple TR or NC weapons that fell Op with the new attachments introduced in the game

[@provalivay]

Problem with btlgs mostly are not actually related to the endless ammo, i think. It's just the overall quality of the weapon, that allows you to make spray with a laser w/o kickback or any other downsides at all. Imagine how deadly such weapon is in hand of players who grinded near 7k of LMG frags before receiving btlgs? You can't spray like that with TR or maybe NC LMGs.

[@kobaltotto3252]

you forgot to mention the cof changes to the betel

[@maxmuller2928]

That’s the biggest problem

[@evanceaicovschi7230]

As a TR main, I have never viewed the Beatle as OP, on the contrary, I viewed it as the coolest directive weapon. While I am happy that the Butcher got a little love, I see a pretty noticeable double-standard with the treatment of VS directive weapons.

[@missk1697]

Honestly, I have given up on PS2. It has been a week? Two weeks? Of introducing the new AMRs, and the devs didn't even bother to *ACKNOWLEDGE* that they are looking into ways to re-balance them properly. Not to mention how they seemingly ignored all the feedback from the test server, instead leaving Slicer and DAGR absolutely underwhelming. PS2 is not a bad title, but in all honesty, I see no reason to play a game developed by devs with such dismissive attitude. Even the best army can be brought down by incompetent high command.

[@theonlymann1485]

should have left wheb trawler joined the game kek PS2 is a great game. devs though dont want to comfront players for some reason.

[@missk1697]

@@theonlymann1485 NC always getting the best out of the deal is yet another reason, indeed.

[@theonlymann1485]

@@missk1697 oh well other highlights include: containment sites, Ti-Crown Bridge removal(now people snipe there even more without a way to engage em, thanks wrel), Ikanam, Oshur map layouts(Tridents and Interlinks in particular), etc

[@ToaArcan]

@@missk1697 NC gets so many handjobs from the devs it isn't funny. They would win every alert if their playerbase had brains.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

@@theonlymann1485 I still insist that tanks wouldn't be able to snipe from hill tops if we just added a cone of fire to their shots... It doesn't even have to be a big one. Just the sort of variance you expect from an LMG or something, 0.1 degrees. It'll be too inaccurate to snipe from 400 meters but perfectly good at reliably hitting any vehicle you aim at within 200 meters. But nobody cares about balance, they care about being the one who gets to farm.

[@yunhuixie3177]

1. Scavenger takes an implant slot, which according to you means that if other factions want something similar to betelgeuse they have to sacrifice one implant slot. 2. Heat mechanism is more than "switch to pistol, get a kill and go back to lmg"; if you are not shooting, you are effectively reloading, and this process of reloading can be halted (goes back to shooting) without any penalty apart from overheating the weapon. 3. The butcher in itself is a meme weapon (worst accuracy, worst recoil among directive LMGs), having 300 round mag doesn't change that. 4. The nerf to other VS directive weapons I agree was a bit too harsh, but betelgeuse after the nerf IMO is in an appropriate state.

[@EternalGaming786]

As sadly as it is, VS got the tech to use HEAT while TR/NC doesn't :'3 unless there's a update where TR/NC are able to smuggle/steal some of those HEAT mechanics and slap them on their own weapons. ^-^

[@amgvlogs5087]

I'll give a 5th point: heat mechanic completely unties the player from needing to resupply from either an ammo box or terminal. That is a Huge advantage. This is the main reason cracked players could go around taking on whole squads of other players and seem to never lose. With the other factions, they will eventually have to get more ammo from somewhere, have someone who is an engineer which takes away some of their fire power, or have an ammo printing implant, which take away a slot they could use for increased survivability like carapace or something. And even with ammo printing, if they are killing players at a high enough clip, they will outpace the implants effects. Not to mention no bullet drop lol. Nerf was well deserved.

[@violenceandpoetry]

Speaking as an engineer main, if you're out of ammo, you have no because you ask not. I will never complain about you feeding me certs.

[@jayijng]

I had a stroke reading this

[@CAfakmykak]

I never thought VS directive weapons were OP even before the nerf, I'm a VS main and I play better with NC weapons. For example, my stats with Gauss Saw has 0.15 better KPM than Betelgeuse, my KDA is better by 0.4, 3% higher accuracy and 2% better HSR. Gauss Saw is definitely a harder weapon to use than Betelgeuse. I'm also at a disadvantage because NC is not my main character, so I don't have everything unlocked. People who complain about VS directive weapons are just salty from getting dunked on by vets who have been playing since launch.

[@aquapendulum]

The only reason they are falsely perceived to be OP is because they are awarded to players who had at least 5800 kills in each weapon class. They are strictly wielded by veterans of the game. If you consistently lose gunfights to a VS player wielding a Betelgeuse, chances are you won't fare much better if he was using any other LMG. He got 5800 kills to get here.

[@uk6396]

Same

[@chettonex]

​​​@@aquapendulum still it doesnt explain why those Veterans pick 40% more their directive weapon over regular guns that have similar stats to the VS and NC variants. Veterans know what weapons are op, right? Btw, your stats may be better with the Godsaw due to your playstyle and aiming skills. It just doesnt mean it is a better weapon overall if you compare faction stats with all LMGs.

[@aquapendulum]

@@chettonex 2 words: sustain potential. Performance in gunfight has nothing to do with it. The Betelgeuse would perform no better (now worse due to reduced mag size) than the stock Orion in the hands of noobs because they don't tend to survive long enough to benefit from its gimmick anyway. It's the veterans that can survive from gunfights to gunfights and the Betelgeuse simply provides a quality-of-life improvement to cut out the dead air where they just stand next to an ammo pack and do nothing for 10 seconds before running back to the fight.

[@wanderingaming5805]

This is exactly me. I’m a VS main for about 2000 hours in Vanu alone; switch to NC, I get higher KDA, better accuracy, more kill streaks etc. NC guns are strictly better statistically when compared to other factions, and they have a 143, 167, and 200 damage option no other faction gets to top it off. The same options as all the other factions with a bonus damage tier locked to NC. (Also wtf is the new AMR for NC, and wtf is the Trawler doing two tapping infantry)

[@TheHuffur]

Its unfortunate that a lot of the time anyone complains about VS getting shafted it gets countered by "You just think everyone is out to get you / Victim complex" or similar argument but for any VS main player its kinda hard not to get that because in many ways its actually true, VS is the only faction that gets perks that comes with drawbacks that negate or even outweighs the benefits of the perk given. VS is never allowed to have something that is purely beneficial, there always has to be a negative tacked on with it to please the NC/TR players who in reverse mainly get purely beneficial perks or at least the benefits far outweighs the drawback like a Prowler having to be stationary to gain a insane 50% velocity buff. If VS got a bonus that large... it would probably be a suicide button, you get the bonus but then you DIE to make up for it. Even the no bullet drop perk does this, does not work on most long range weapons but because of the no bullet drop perk the devs punish most VS weapons with a lower projectile speed to 'make up' for it. Its far easier to aim slightly above someones head than it is to predict where they will be moving due to lower projectile speed. Heat mechanic, great it increases the uptime of the weapon so here is the punishment to 'make up' for it. Less ammo to decrease the uptime. Magrider can dodge so lets punish it with slow speed and acceleration to 'make up' for it and make it hard to dodge. Saron got turned into a 6 shooter simply because it paired up too well with the Magrider using cover, thats not allowed. Lancer, the long range beam cannon loses 50% of its damage past and between 150-300m and the projectile velocity is slower than a Archer bullet because the long range beam cannon is not allowed to actually have the benefits its supposed to have and be a accurate long range AV weapon. etc etc and so on and so forth.

[@addmen96]

Meanwhile NC get mashhead, trawler, railjack, shotguns on everything possible... I can't help but feel that devs simply hate vanu

[@Megan-ii4gf]

I could do this same /cry victim complex post about TR or NSO though. The real problem is NC gets all the good stuff and everyone else gets the shaft. TR weapons get bigger magazine and fire rate? Better make the damage model useless and make it kick like a mule to "make up" for it. Prowler can do lots of damage so let's make it sit perfectly still where it can easily be c4ed to "make up" for it. Gatekeeper was strong on release so turn it into a garbage 8 round burst weapon weaker than a halberd in all situations to "make up" for it. Striker? Great against aircraft. Better make it useless against infantry and vehicles to "make up" for it. Etcetera, etcetera. We have the same problems. NSO has even worse problems. As I said, the current issue is NC getting all the good toys. Look at vanguard. Name a downside on that thing, I'll wait. The infantry guns? Oh no slow fire rate, but it doesn't matter because two hits and you're dead. Etc, etc.

[@TheHuffur]

@@Megan-ii4gf Could you though? The difference between the two TR and VS is like I already said, the bonuses TR gets are at least large enough to still be a bonus that outweighs the drawback they come with. Prowler does have to sit still to use Anchor mode but its a god damn +50% velocity buff, its only the potatoes that sit in it 24/7 while shooting at infantry in a base that realistically get punished while using it. A Prowler driving around and Anchoring up every now and then to take shots will not get tagged with C4 more than any other tank. The Barrage ability is always a huge boost no matter what loadout or weapon you are using while a Maggie Recharge is at best questionable if not just using Fire Suppression is better with the exception of if you go all in on evasion/turbo you might as well get it as well. Gatekeeper can do 940 damage per reload against a tank and is just slightly slower to reload than a Halberd that does 720 damage against a tank, its slower because it takes like 0.7 seconds to fire all the projectiles... but it does more damage and afaik has lower projectile drop compared to a Halberd. Striker is a launcher, obviously its not good against infantry with only Deci and Masamune being even remotely 'ok' but those are garbage against aircraft unless its a flying potato and/or like 20-30m away. Striker is still godlike compared to any other AA launcher and it has a more than good damage potential against ground vehicles though it does leave you vulnerable. Striker does 900 damage per 3.34 second reload against tanks while a Decimator does 975 with a 5.7 second reload.... obviously takes a little time to shoot all shots from a Striker but in terms of DPS they are quite even but Striker is capable of easily hitting long range targets. TR and VS have the same problem for sure but TR at least gets something worth using out of it while VS are more often than not left with the "It would be better without it" option.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

@@TheHuffur You say Prowler doesn't have to stay locked down all the time, the problem is that moving around, locking down, moving around, is pointless, when you can instead just put on racer chassis and barrel at the enemy with a vulcan on top. Magrider gets the ability to scale sheer cliffs and is capable of turboing through the sky, it's not simply defenseless. They're used extensively because they are more than viable. Gatekeeper's overall TTK against vehicles is the same as a halberd, assuming all shots hit. Thanks to the cone of fire, you will not be hitting all shots. It can't reliably kill infantry, and does its damage split up instead of a single burst, which is also a downside. I STRONGLY prefer the Saron, it's a considerably more useful weapon than Gatekeeper, and is an actual alternative to Halberd. Striker is good against aircraft, unless they're more than 100 meters away because the projectile velocity is so low that anyone with a brain can escape. However, like I said, it IS good at it. That said, that's the only thing it's ever good at. Firing a striker at a tank means you need to stand completely still and be dangerously close, because beyond 50 meters the cone of fire will cause you to miss half your shots, and moving will add a wide enough cone of fire that you'll be missing even then. And if the vehicle is moving, you'll hit maybe half your shots, unless it's right next to you. Decimator meanwhile does it all in one single burst, so you can fire it and then move around and hide, instead of having to stand still for like 3 straight seconds. Striker is ONLY good against aircraft, but as I said, it IS good against them. You're completely wrong. I was a TR main for years, and use them intermittently, I am familiar with everything in their arsenal, and even still, I have mained Vanu and NSO for several years now. NSO is genuinely weak, and is absolutely underpowered. Vanu, however? It's got plenty of flavour. The guns really are far more accurate because of their lower rate of fire and more forgiving recoil patterns. My Vanu harasser has the aphelion, saron, and proton ppa, (plus every single one of the NS top guns) all of which are fantastic weapons. As for the magrider? Yes, you don't use it like an MBT... You use it like a fat harasser. It excels in verticle mobility. Prowler is designed to sit on top of a hill, but Magrider is designed to GET on top of a hill. It's got a much higher skill ceiling than prowler or vanguard, and it shows in the results that new versus veteran players are capable of achieving in it. Also, my favourite MAX in the game? Absolutely, without question, my Blueshift ZOE Vanu MAX. It's a beast. You just hit ZOE as you break a doorway, exterminate some guy and several others, then back up through the doorway, and repeat. You can also attack corners far more aggressively than another MAX suit can, and dodge rockets too. Don't underestimate your own arsenal, embrace it. Otherwise, go to a different faction if it's too hard for you. I absolutely love my vanu, more than any other faction, and I love it for very good reasons.

[@TheHuffur]

@@Megan-ii4gf You dont seem to base anything on actual performance/reality so I probably wont bother too much with this but just a FYI the Magrider being "extensively" used? It has a nearly daily streak of having 35-40/60% less people using it compared to Prowler/Vanguard which you can easily confirm yourself by adding up the MBT primary weapons daily "Unique" user numbers. Last Saturday for example: 674 unique Magrider drivers 1067 unique Vanguard drivers 1000 unique Prowler drivers So depending on how you want to use the %, you would either have to increase the unique Magrider users by ~60% or decrease the Vanguard/Prowler users by ~36% to get the numbers to be decently equal... "extensively" used for sure.

[@m.i.g.2023]

Everyone complains about Directive weapon changes, but nobody seems to notice that Flare V6's three-round burst was removed. It was the only feature that made Flare unique compared to other 577/167 LMGs and now it is just another copy+paste weapon. I really miss the burst...

[@ericksosa6212]

Same for the tmg-50 with two-round burst, maybe much people dont used it but there was people who give it a good use, now it feels same as the gd-22 and flare

[@theonlymann1485]

@@ericksosa6212 most firemode swap was removed for "useless" reasons. some of them kept it like the SABR-13(was explicitly mentioned) but it didnt hurt noone, dont know why they removed it. maybe due to angled grip

[@jimvonmoon]

The problem with Betel is that you need to be really good at the game to use heat mechanic to your advantage. I am trash at playing infantry, so VS directive weapons are basically collectibles to me. I never use them.

[@lloydrobins6074]

And now they are less usable compared with their base weapons. I'm still trying to use them for the challenge but I definitely fare better with the Orion, Solstice and Eridani than I do with the Betel, Eclipse and Skorpios.

[@ultramax4018]

Unstable Eclipse brought me back to the game. Its so damn good especially with short barrel and re-peaking corners with jet pack 🤘Im in love with unstable ammo on LA shit just hits different with the air-hipfire mechanics. And you can switch between Eclipse and Skorpios for max uptime and by the time you switch back its fully reloaded. I feel the betel is in a good spot. -5 rounds but can equip grip making it pretty beamy compared to before.

[@theonlymann1485]

the change really was made for quickswapping to another heat weaponry with the asp kek

[@theonlymann1485]

that said initial nerf was too much

[@spamhonx56]

Once upon a time, heat mechanic weapons were cool and rare, i remember playing so much VS to get to use them. i still haven't unlocked a single one (though i'm close to several) because while i was doing that, ammo printer implants and guns with infinite ammo like the obelisk were released, and so i stopped trying to get directive weapons because... meh.

[@Zeecontainers]

I don't think the heat mechanic is a problem I do think that scavenger, where you have to sacrifice an implant slot - and - be dependent on killing enemies for an effect is very far from comparable. As apples to pears as it can be. Also, the betlegeuse doesn't have to wait for a full reload to kill a player. You'll usually do fine with half a clip, and most users don't wait until it's completely cooled down before firing again. It makes comparing reload times apples to pears if both are handled that differently. Normal guns having set reload times and betelgeuse having a fire when you feel like reload time is a powerful trait. 20 rounds is definitely enough for most kills. Does vanu then disserve the nerf? Not particularly comparing accuracy and whatnot. But just glossing over those points seems disingenuous in order to make your case. Not all things are considered or compared. Not needing to kill for ammo and not taking up an implant slot is a massive difference. Killing usually entails recieving damage, which incurs shield regen or ability downtime. Together with flexible reload time, the possibility of slashing reload time in half in a pinch is also a major factor. You can't just ignore that. In order to make a strong point you can't cherrypick metrics and ignore other relevant aspects. So I don't consider this video a strong argument.

[@frankdukesC]

Amen...

[@CAMIKAZE78]

I see what you are saying, but let's just take into consideration the 20 round scenario as per outlined above: that equates to approx. a 1.95s downtime plus the .5ish seconds of cooldown delay before the weapon does start cooling down. Now yes, this passive reload means that the weapon doesn't have a reload that forces it to be out of action, this is true and I probably could've drawn on that a bit more. But, I would still make the argument that the weapon doesn't let you play too much more aggresively over other weapons, in the sense that you can't chain more targets in quick succession over other weapons. The way the heat mechanic is set up now, forces players out of fights to ensure that in the scenarios where a 1v2 occurs, they have the heat capacity to deal with it. Any good player with a weapon like the Betelgeuse will have some downtime on their mind to ensure they have the necessary flexibility for the worst case scenario. Just food for thought.

[@provalivay]

@@CAMIKAZE78 again, your example is a quite situative, as fight might happen either in a field where you have 2 enemies against you and you have no place to hide OR you fighting with them in a maze, where you have a second to disengage to drop some heat. But imagine these both scenarios like you have only a standard LMG with 4 sec reload time. In both cases you're dead if you're empty. In 4 seconds they could knife you down.

[@darrenskjoelsvold]

Glad I was subscribed because I got the news from this channel that Connery was working again and I had a good session with my Connery character.

[@richardzheng231]

I feel like a lot of the strength of the betel isn’t really the ability to passively reload a full magazine, but rather it can passively reload just enough rounds to win a fight. You can fire up t’il the heat limit, chug a medkit, and you have enough rounds back to finish the job, even if it’s not a full mag

[@lloydrobins6074]

Noone is arguing this point. The problem is that the VS directive weapons run out too fast and then have to be reloaded. There is no passive reload once they are overheated. And they overheat too fast for the situations in which they should be most effective.

[@richardzheng231]

@@lloydrobins6074 On paper yea 45 rounds suck, in practice you are never gonna be shooting constantly for that many rounds. Even when you fire a lot, you will almost always shoot more than 50 rounds before needing a long reload in the betel

[@lloydrobins6074]

@@richardzheng231 The problem is everyone is focusing on the Betel. I can use the Betel effectively without too much drama, and compared with the Orion with its 50 shots (not 'rounds', they're energy bolts), the Betel is fine. It's the others, like the Eclipse, Darkstar and particularly the Skorpios that have fared worst out of this. Noone's talking about them, but that's where the real issues lie.

[@lloydrobins6074]

@@richardzheng231 In any case, no matter what people say, it's the players themselves who will decide. I've decided I've had enough of the devs nerfing my favourite weapons. That's enough for me.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

@@lloydrobins6074 Run out too fast? I'm sorry, is 90% of the magazine of an Orion not enough for you to get a kill? Are you incapable of holding your finger off the trigger for one measley second to regenerate enough rounds to kill somebody with? The heat mechanic is completely balanced as it is.

[@eris902]

The reason I dont care about the Scav implant is mainly due to its opportunity cost and how it is more restrictive that the heat mechanic

[@Megan-ii4gf]

That, and the fact it's useless on anything with a magazine size under 100 and forces you to use a pistol to get kills which puts you at a significant disadvantage.

[@eris902]

@@Megan-ii4gf A Comi only has 6 shots after all

[@thebloxxer22]

And of course I was the bloody first kill in the video

[@CAMIKAZE78]

GGs my friend.

[@cookieofkhaine4904]

A problem with your calculation is that you don't need to get back to zero overheat for it to be effective (unlike the full length of a reload) and also the combo with medkit switch which you wouldn't be able to do with anchor/msw-r. Basically it gives a lot of flexibility so the beetlejuice is still great has a 1v1-1v2 or skirmish weapon (like anchor and msw)

[@GHKiwi]

In 1v1 or 1v2 the ammo pool and reload is irrelevant compared to skill.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

I've had a few people bring this up, and I definitely should have elaborated on it more in the video. However, if you are taking the time to pop a medkit, as an example, typically you aren't about to go ahead an re-engage in a 1v2. Popping a medkit suggests that your health is low and you need some time to get yourself back up to speed. The passive cooldown just means that you have a little more wiggle room against unexpected opponents - but any situations where you kill multiple in quick succession will still create a sense of forced downtime as most players will aim to get as much "heat" back as possible to allow for as much flexibility as possible.

[@Rykaas]

The Eclipse and Beatle are basically a slightly less accurate Solstice and Orion but with heat mechanic. It's a cool feature to have but that's pretty much it. Most often than not i run the Pulsar C on my LA

[@addmen96]

Lets consider turning heat mechanic into proper VS faction trait, cus 'no bullet drop' is worthless and the faction need something to compete with others

[@theonlymann1485]

it always was reload speed, problem is NC comes too close to "quick reload" eith better stats kek

[@strikeforce1500]

What is worse is, the no bullet drop only applies to pistols and I think other weapon type, not all of then

[@arahelis2038]

The thing I don't really agree on is the mag size of the betelgeuse, or comparing reload times directly. Sure, if you just fire down your weapon like there's no tomorrow, you'd be as a disadvantage over other equivalent weapons, but that's terrible use of the weapon to begin with. Since the weapon cools down/"reloads" as soon as you stop firing with it (there might be a slight delay tho) your 40/45 rounds magazine have effectively a few more shots in it, and the fact you're "reloading" while not fighting still gives you an edge over other weapons in my opinion, you click three or four heads, then during the time it takes for the next wave to come, your weapon is all good to go, while another one might have to reload and get caught with its pants down midfight,meaning your 40/45 rounds magazine might have more bullets in it than a weapon with 10/15 more rounds, because this weapon had to reload somewhere in-between. I do agree it's an issue on carbines/SMG tho, 20 rounds magazine is just too small, you can't be effective with it. Edit: Well, I should have watched the video until the end, I'm not saying the VS Arsenal is OP by any mean (I'd like to have a lasher and an horizon, but that's another subject), I'm just really tired of VS vets saying their arsenal is the worst in the game when they're constantly being the number one faction by alert wins on our server regardless of population and actively avoided by the other two because they're so unfun to fight against

[@theonlymann1485]

VS just has top tier weapons and then just half ass weapons rest for the arsenal. better description would be "arsenal is stale as fuck"

[@avaliantsoul5408]

I think something some people forget is that two weapons can be statistically identical/similar, and yet function slightly to very differently. I'm a TR main, but I perform 10x better with NS and NC weapons. Does that mean that TR has the worst weapons? not necessarily. I literally don't use the VS weapons because they "feel" weird and Ive never gotten the hang of them like I did the other 3 factions.

[@TheIlandarLegacy]

They're number one because they have better players. It's a pretty well established fact at this point that the inferior arsenal and aesthetic appeal led to lower initial populations, thus attracting the better players who wanted to avoid queues. In a 10 year old game, that results in a skill snowball effect and you end up with a faction that is overwhelmingly dominant.

[@arahelis2038]

@@TheIlandarLegacy Except they don't have better players, you can verify this by looking at the outfits wars results that were quite balanced (outside of Cobalt where the winner is decided by which faction did [T]/[VS] decided to join). Outfit wars isn't a good metric to judge a lot of thing, but I think it is if you're looking to judge which faction has the best shooters and the best leaders. You can also look at live events, Arshee hosted an event on Cobalt where NC won and TR was a close second, VS, sadly, didn't show up at all so it's hard to really judge. Also, not to discredit the effort of the good VS players, but VS is known for having some of the biggest zergfits (at least now that 91AR has been disbanded), with both SKL, The BOIS and I think some others on the other servers.

[@TheIlandarLegacy]

@@arahelis2038 Outfit Wars is a terrible indicator. People switched factions and good outfits were heavily targeted. Multiple outfits were caught cheating and warned or banned. It was a joke. Arshee's event... really? Another one-off, meaningless event organised by someone who doesn't even play the game. You really think that's a better metric than 10 years of live server conditions? As for zergfits...what's your point? All factions have zergfits, no one ever argued that this is an NC/TR trait only.

[@SS-dc5jz]

The core value of Betel is the up time when there are multiple targets or big push coming in, the heat mechanism can help avoid the reload downtime which is often going to kill you. 40 or 50 rounds doesn't quite bother me too much as long as the damage profile remains in top tier(143 with 750rpm). On the other hand, Arsenal update regarding to Betel is quite not ideal, Betel can equip forward grip or laser now, which is huge advantage in my opinion. Betel isn't suppose to be an advanced version of Orion, it should be something good when you can actually control it. The original version of Betel is really fun to use, 50 rounds, if you overheated it, you get yourself killed, need to be pay extreme attention when using it. Regarding to other directive weapon, reduction of mag size just killed Eclipse, unlike heavy, LA often can find a place to reload with it's ablility, heat mechanism doesn't really help too much. On the other hand, the engagement range of LA is unstable which means more rounds per kill, mag size is critical to make sure you don't miss the kill, 25 rounds or even 27 rounds is quite big nerf in my opinion. BTW, I'm willing to trade all VS carbines for Fortuna, it's just OP,lol.

[@lloydrobins6074]

To me the heat mechanic on the Betel simply compensated for what was to me an already too small magazine size of the Orion. Nerfing the Betel in the way it has been in the face of the magazine sizes of other faction's weapons was to me a low blow. I agree with giving all the VS directive weapons that same heat mechanic but reducing the mag size for any of them was wrong imho. I am big on fairness and this frankly has put an extremely bad taste in my mouth. Not only do I not want to play TR or NC anymore, I actually don't want to even play VS. I worked hard to get my Betel, Eclipse and Skorpios. Now I have to work HARDER to use them all effectively compared with the base models. I still prefer to try to use them for the challenge, but I no longer have the incentive. I have been up until now a member, but will now probably not be renewing since I can't play my favoured faction the way I have come to expect. I'm already finding myself playing less and less as a result.

[@TommyCol31]

Lol it is only gem y u heff to be mad :(

[@lloydrobins6074]

@@TommyCol31 I'm not mad. I'm quite happy to leave the game behind, since the devs have changed it to the point I don't enjoy it anymore.

[@theonlymann1485]

@@lloydrobins6074 good luck then

[@removalofrem8034]

Love your take on a lot of stuff, but I feel that the scavenger isn't a fair comparison to the directive weapons. You're giving up an implant slot, which can be costly for certain loadouts, and then you still need to get a kill with a sidearm, which limits viable sidearms.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

If we are going to be making comparisons when it comes to the most "meta" weapons against the most "meta" ways to counter them, I feel like it's a fair comparison to make. I would never run Scavenger on anything other than a heavy assault myself due to the nature of the implant, and then I'm only ever really giving up something like Athelete or Battle Hardened myself (Assimilate is a must own for me). Really depends on the player, I'm just saying that if players are that keen on getting the benefit of the heat mechanic, that's how you get it.

[@nickryan9687]

Great video. I don't always read tldr on patch notes so never knew about mag nerfs on the heat weapons. All and all for me directive weapons should be 500 kills per weapon not 1160🤣 ill get the vs directives one day! Also I kindve want to play on higher settings to see if I can still perform as good. Are your settings in the discord or should I generally just play on high and ultra?

[@GearbieFPS]

Honestly high settings are just a detriment. For some reason the firing rate in planetside is tied to your fps, so you should go for as low on the settings as you can tolerate. Otherwise it’s literally a direct nerf to your weapons.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

Settings are available in the discord in a dedicated channel mate, thanks for the comment :)

[@nickryan9687]

@@GearbieFPS thank you! I'm well aware. Spent alot of time watching videos on how to max fps. I currently get 200 in most fights but bigger zergs drop anywhere between 115-150 I just thought it would be a meme to play something like 75 frames but have the game look amazinggg!

[@nickryan9687]

@@CAMIKAZE78 thank you as always 🙂

[@provalivay]

@@nickryan9687 what hardware do you have for these fps amount?

[@bailey3559]

What computer specs do you have?

[@mjolnir1906]

As an NC main, I love to meme that "Vanu OP" or "betel OP," but these nerfs were a bit much.

[@Uchiha_1619]

Nc op 😈

[@kbwarriors]

You know Cami, there's a reason almost no one runs scav on HA.... Anyways good vid! Agree on most points esp after the Arsenal Update

[@LetustheDragon]

I think it would've been better if there was a way to disable the heat mechanic when weapon is sheathed. The problem is, the Repair Tool and Medic Tool also run on heat, and I have a feeling all heat weapons roll on the same mechanic. Just a theory, but if that is true, then medics and engineers might as well just not get weaponry. After the update, the heat mechanic seems moot; especially when compared to the Butcher I will argue against the "Vanu Easy Mode" as it's not a placebo... it's more of a Mandela Effect.

[@paxelic1429]

2 quick questions, is Camikaze australian? and what server is he on. Since Briggs went down, playing on 180ms caps the skill that I can potentially achieve. Its just shoot first and if I dont hope they choke.

[@Draumal97]

He is, and I think he's on Connery?

[@fbp3229]

How are the servers for you now Cami? I hope the recent update has made the game playable for you again, because I've really missed your regular PS2 content.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

Much better my friend, I can play the game again. Has been a nice change of pace.

[@Kna5041]

Wait till you try the nso directive weapons.

[@User__Not__Found]

I'm a new player. Can confirm, I've never lived long enough to run out of ammo in my primary

[@marthvader14]

I'm an old player, can also confirm

[@xVertigo101]

I struggle to use the battle gauss 54-A vs the Orion on console due to its erratic horizontal shake

[@renegadegonesane]

Scout rifle user here (infil). I think that the Revenant doesn't offer very much more than the base model. Compared to the eidolon you lose out on an already small magazine as well as the ubgl. If you find yourself using a sidearm here you've been out positioned and are probably dead - passive heat reload doesn't matter, especially if you're playing at extended ranges. If you've lived long enough to run out of ammo you're probably not contributing much to a base fight anyways because you're picking off people well outside any meaningful area in a base while playing cautiously to stay alive. I find it underwhelming. What can it offer beyond the eidolon? Not much, but for sure this is a case where my role becomes much more limited (lost the ubgl, became less effective/versatile in point hold/breach situations) than compared to the base model.

[@Ethan0433]

Also, Obelisk exists, so that also competes with Revenant.

[@addmen96]

UGL is very situatinal, heat ammo gives you advantage in 1v1 long range situations(sustain fire); gun can be build for close or mid-long range. Also why in the world would you use scout rifle to breach the point as infil? You either play a rat with smg or snipe bastards

[@addmen96]

@@Ethan0433 Obelisk is mid to super long range, revenant is more flexible in that regard

[@S0VIETS0DA]

Do TR directive weapons, these are imo the most insignificant direct weapons in the game. They removed the T9 butchers forward grip and compensator for example.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

I'd be surprised if he even has them. Unity is good, Butcher is whatever, Shuriken is ok, and the TRAC-Shot is the worst piece of crap I've ever used in my life. He talks about Vanu directive weapons plenty but I don't even know if he's got much use of NC and TR directive weapons.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

@@Megan-ii4gf For the record, I have all the NC directive weapons minus the Moonshot, Executive, and Guardian, and I have the Butcher/Tracshot and am about to unlock the Unity. The Butcher is amazing.

[@tatsunote]

@@Megan-ii4gf Good lord I'm going to have to get my sodium levels evaluated from all the salt you keep dumping on the comment section. Can't someone make a video request without you interjecting with baseless vitriol?

[@Megan-ii4gf]

@@tatsunote On a video where the VS victim complex is being stroked? No.

[@tatsunote]

@@Megan-ii4gf I'm going to have to assume you don't know what 'baseless' and 'vitriol' mean. Also, you are the biggest victim cryer I've seen in the whole section. You've been calling everything unfair because you can't seem to use the tools given you to counter things like MAXs, and oh, no, infils can cloak! And in case you forgot, this particular comment was about TR.

[@kestutisstugys1189]

A couple of points I wanted to make. First of all heat mechanics is not so much making VS weapons OP as it makes them unique and it's too bad other factions don't get that. NC, shotgun gets an under-barrel shotgun, I think all NC directive weapons could get that. Maybe... I don't know. I just imagine having tempest with an under-barrel shotgun. That would be cool. And not that we don't have precedence of under-barrel attachments to SMGs, I mean, punisher exists. Another thing I thought about these new heat mechanics for all weapons, is that the new Parsec made Phaseshift somewhat redundant. One of the biggest advantages of Phaseshift, at least for me, was that I could take out targets without taking time to reload, so if I'm pacing my shots properly I could take out targets all the time without downtime dictated by the need to reload. There were some sacrifices made for that, Phaseshift's lower Muzzle Velocity, which made it harder to engage targets at longer ranges and also damage drop-off. Now the only reason to carry the Phaseshift is if you want to auraxium it or you want to have an ability to swap between knock-off Parsec and Obelisk on the fly.

[@midrovar5811]

a godsaw with an underbarrel shotgun???? sing me in

[@kestutisstugys1189]

@@midrovar5811 I mean, NC already has an under-barrel shotgun on the shotgun. So...

[@magorostravsky5732]

It would be nice to have at least one update without to be stomped down to ground (reliving 10% penality isn't much boost) Pariah causing more psychical dmg to user than on target and new AMR is useless. Why would I trade Archer or Shortbow for it? For no bullet drop? I can hit moving vehicles on 1000 m with archer. No need for that.

[@jjkthebest]

Even the most skilled players I know wouldn't come close to matching a beetlejuice's passive reload with that implant.

[@imperiumCirca41]

I really hope they are revised

[@Megan-ii4gf]

They're finally balanced for the first time in the game's history. I hope they don't touch them.

[@ChopSueyyy]

VS in general have what it feels like small mag sizes. The idea of the heat mechanic gives VS the option to get pseudo big magazines. Nerfing this mechanic into the ground basically strips a whole faction of something others have or can do waaaaay better. Sure it works differently and has its up and downsides that mostly benefit skilled players, but thats what factions and faction flavours are made for. As long as its not something completely busted like the Masthead (balance wise) i dont get why such a fun mechanic gets nerfed and nerfed and nerfed.

[@mikebaum3754]

i rly wanna see his esf gameplay

[@Cumfart_Inn]

Man we've been getting our tight juicy spandex butts kicked with these balance patches and weapon additions hahah

[@nickryan9687]

HI CAMMI! commenting before I even watch 😆 I'll comment again when I'm done

[@terisye]

I have the belegeuse but I still use the orion because it is just better. Always has been

[@sulferix7265]

you can thank me for that amerish footage lmao. i busted my ass so hard trying to keep vanu on the cont that day it was insane. blew up so many flank buses.

[@Vaelkari]

Implants as a counter arguement are only really a valid if you arnt giving something up to run that implant- which the VS weapons dont have to do. Opportunity cost is a thing. Personally I dont really have an issue with the heat mechanic, my issue that the VS are the only faction that gets a mechanic. As a TR main Id like to see something more interesting then extended extended mags.. maybe an inverse COF or something. That said, the biggest 'imbalance' in faction weapons isnt mechanics, its the quality and clarity of sights. - Compare VS 1x to a TR 1x and see the difference in screen real estate and ease of target acquisition.

[@Effect_FX]

It's worth noting that scavenger actually surpasses what the betel is capable of.

[@trucker2b]

Just give vs plasma burn for 2 sec after 5 hits will change the tide of battle

[@Jakieboi]

I got Betelgeuse like 2 weeks ago and all i can say that it is amazing weapon and my main LMG at the moment.

[@lloydrobins6074]

I agree, it's really a great LMG. It used to be better. Luckily it's still usable as is.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

Definitely a lot of fun, has to be said.

[@daemoniaque6640]

Looks like someone forgot to change the description ;)

[@CAMIKAZE78]

I'm a fool

[@baronwhite4631]

As a pistol main, I just hope the VS Immortal Pistol is leagues better than the Beamer & not just 1% better.

[@AeciusthePhilosopher]

11:49 - also two words: Ammo Printer implant. That said - you would need to use both your implant slots to replicate the full Betelgeuse experience on an ammo based weapon, but it's still an option if you really want it.

[@clownymcclownerton1653]

Thats 3 words dummy

[@DzinkyDzink]

The trade off is IMMENSE lol. Those two implants make you what you're more than the LMG.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

I'd love to see you use scavenger to never have to reload your primary. I really would. You'd be getting the full stalker cloaker experience but without stalker cloaking.

[@PainProjection]

I remember trying butcher after arenal update: Late night, me and other completely random guy just farmed some micro squad of ~10 people at some tech plant. I equipped Butcher for the first time and managed to run out of ammo. I'm not even THAT good, these 10 peoples just been exceptionally bad at this game. So, when i died because i ran out of bullets i equipped ammo belt and my total capacity went over one thousand rounds and i still managed to run out of ammo in my next attempt. Thats me, just average 3k/d shitter. My point is what it is totally possible to run out of bullets even with beasts like butcher and the neat part of having trully infinite ammo pool is ability to sustain indefinetly as long as you landing headshots and "lifesteal" via adrenaline and assimilate. Thats what makes betel so much better than MSW-R for example, 250 rounds is pathetic amount. Not scavenger, not ammo belt, not even ammo printer can fix that issue, only mitigate slightly, while occupying your precious implant slots which is extremely limited resource, you got only 2, spend them wisely. Also scavenger actually requires additional input from user, while betel cooldowns regardless of you smacking someones head with commie or popping a skillstick. Not saying what they are overpowered rn, i think lack of attachments hurts a lot, at least for peoples like me, who likes laser beams and play with relatively low FoV so even small difference in recoil, such as lack of compensator, hits hard.

[@Teabahgeue]

Trade your HUUUUGE MAG for lowest mag cap in class to get INFINITE AMMO!!!

[@wanderingaming5805]

@@Teabahgeue made me laugh pretty hard. Imagine having over 1000 rounds in this incredibly specific scenario to say Betel OP with infinite

[@Teabahgeue]

@@wanderingaming5805 Kami brushed on how Scavenger implant with the Butcher + ext mags is basically 90 rounds a kill with your secondary. ^_____^

[@destructionzone8493]

Well if you run ammo printer you have infernet ammo, so the argument of the heat machanic gives infenet ammo is not really viable

[@HaloPlaya443]

The big killer isn't infinite ammo, it's the infinite mag/no reload that gets me. They're the only ones who have the ability to keep in the fight the longest so long as they watch their heat, and can disengage fights to heal, maneuver, reload a rocket, or whatever, and not need to worry about reloading their primary. Makes flanking and surprising them that much harder than other factions at times.

[@Bertral1]

Your argument also falls flat, considering you need both ammo printer and scavenger to mimic the heat mechanic. With your reasoning, the betelgeuse is an orion that comes with 2 additional implant slots.

[@theonlymann1485]

lets not forget that to run these "betelgeuse but good gun" loadouts one must compromise implant slot that would be otherwise used for monility mesh, assimilate, sensor shield, athlete, catlike, etc. 2 if you also use ammo printer.

[@TheHuffur]

@@Bertral1 Sure but its stupid to balance weapons around what the top 1% of players can do with them. Not everyone is MLG ready like you and constantly sit on +6 KDR. I mean how many people would a high skilled Betel user get with a SAW or Carv without reloading if they use the same trigger discipline as they do with a Betel? Easily more than 6.

[@Effect_FX]

@@Bertral1 infinite ammo was always irrelevant so ammo printer isnt necessary, scavenger however straight up surpasses the heat mechanic, since it will always reload your gun even if you have zero bullets in the magazine, where as the betel if it hits zero bullets mist always physically pull the gun out to reload it (and scavenger doesn't work on heatbased weapons)

[@UEENavy]

My problem with the betelgeuse is not the weapon itself, although very good, it's what it enables. You can be entirely self sufficient as a heavy assault and have a tool for every situation as well as win most 1v1 due to overshield. I can't count the number of times I dropped with squads made up entirely of medics and heavies with betels. It's easymode to cap points as you can just spam the best damage model infinitely and medics keep you up.

[@bruvaguren494]

NSO directive arsenal update when?

[@Tupapcu]

so the Dev's Nerf the only good weapon vs owned?

[@AnInsanePersonNotFromTwitter]

Yep

[@HPmcDoogle]

0:41 Oooh so close, so close. 1:21 Fuck. nice.

[@B-U-T-C-H-E-R]

You said yourself that if you go crazy it "makes it about the same as weapons on other factions". Isn't that the point? It's not better anymore, it's about the same

[@Alpha1598753]

I keep hearing beetel juice

[@DanceSC2]

vs main, but I do play all factions. I actually don't care too much for the betelgeuse, I like the sva88 more. The guass saw has more up time and a faster kill imo, the msrw feels just like the orion / betelgeuse so not sure why tr complain about it. and anytime you have server lag, heat guns are a bitch. It's like infil cloaking in server lag, you get a delay that is not consistent enough to work with, and back in the day when I was running on a not so good comp, the bullet loss from fps issues would mean less bullets per mag because your heat mechanic will always drain at a consitent rate, you would see the heat bar hit 25% before your gun even fires or any audio / hit detection shows up.

[@whitewolf7179]

The big think is with beatel you dont,t realy need pistol "vanu vet" Literly evry vanu hevy now takes with easp lasher as secendery

[@nolanncerdan7039]

i mean....the only directive weapons that are realy used are the LMG ...maybe some AR or SMG but the probleme is that the heavt and the LMG are to powerfull compare to other classes or weaponds

[@wanderingaming5805]

Bro did you watch the video?

[@xoawolf]

Papa Vanu is pleased by this statement Cami

[@DzinkyDzink]

The ammo pool is only valid to choke point fights. Playing as an Infliltrator or Medic in low to medium intensity hexes(1-12/12-24 enemies) you eventually run out of ammo. It's a miracle if there's an Engineer with Spitfire and ammo packs in those scenarios.

[@coryv5679]

That is why there is ammo printer...

[@ToaArcan]

On the subject of the Butcher buff vs. the Goose nerf, it's simple. Being a precise bullet hose with endless uptime is perfectly okay when it's TR doing it, or rather, _not VS doing it._ A large portion of the game's playerbase have an absolutely childish hateboner for VS, and it's reaching terminal levels. When they said they were going to rework directive weapons, I was pretty excited. I badly wanted a buff to the Eclipse I'd worked so hard to unlock on Connery and am currently working towards on Emerald. I'd been pretty disappointed with it when I got it the first time, the heat mechanic was neat, but it was attached to what I already considered a pretty lacklustre gun in the Solstice, and everything that I disliked about the Solstice was still there. Of course, I _had_ just finished grinding through Auraxiums on the base Solstice and the Solstice Burst, so maybe I was just out of patience with the Solstice model and I thus didn't give it a fair shake. We'll see when I unlock it on Emerald, I've not included _any_ Solstices in my list this time (Serpent/Horizon/Pulsar/Zenith/VX6-7), or at least, that's what I would say... if not for the nerf. I'd also spent a hefty amount of time on NC, and throughout all my time there, I don't think I _ever_ got killed by an Eclipse. I saw plenty of Betels, a few Skorpios and a handful of Darkstars. But never the Eclipse. And I'm not exactly good at this game, I die to basically everything, and if I'm _not_ dying to something, it's probably not there to begin with. So I was really hoping for a buff when the Arsenal Update came down. Most of the VS directives were lacklustre at best (there's literally an outfit on Cobalt called 'Darkstar is Nanites/Shit'), and I was looking forward to seeing them become viable... and then I read the patch notes and realised that they were being _nerfed._ Great, wonderful, the gun I already wasn't using is now even worse. Thanks Wrel. And it wasn't even nerfed because of its own performance! It was nerfed in the name of making a new 'rule' for the heat weapons, to make it the 'same' as the Betel, for _reasons._ The Betel can kinda eat the nerf and still be somewhat okay (Not good, but _okay_ at least), but short-mag weapons like Carbines and SMGs? Yeah, no. I haven't gotten the chance to use it myself (I don't have room for PTS on my computer and I don't have the time to get 6k kills with SMGs to unlock on it on live) but I've heard that the Skorpios now struggles to kill Heavies with their shield up in a single mag, which is... not good. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Arsenal Update and the AMR update happened to coincide with VS' already lower average population hitting a crater. Why the hell would they stay on VS with our overnerfed directive guns and our worst AMR, when they can go to TR and have the Butcher, or NC and have the GODSAW, the Trawler, and the goddamn Masthead.

[@DzinkyDzink]

Slash that 44% Vanu win rate on Cobalt and then we can talk about VS hateboner.

[@wanderingaming5805]

@Nick Dzink VS have that high win rate for reasons NOT including their guns, I promise you.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

Never, in all my over 2000 kills with the Butcher, would I ever have described it as "a precise bullet hose". It sprays, and is hard to control, and now has similar uptime to the Betelgeuse. If you want the extended mags to never have to reload, congratulations, you aren't getting a rail slot. Also guess what, you're also stuck using the Butcher instead of the MSW-R, which actually DOES have the damage profile and similar accuracy to Orion and Betelgeuse. The heat mechanic is fine as it is.

[@theonlymann1485]

@@Megan-ii4gf *gets robbed of fgrip and compensater at patch 3 moment*

[@Noah-rm5bu]

I've started playing nc. Why? Cyclone.

[@TunaThighs]

Too large of a % of the player base has an unjustified hate-boner for VS because they can't cope with a space faction in a space game. They want traditional military faction versus traditional military faction and so the team that looks weird or has weird mechanics is instantly OP in their eyes. No rational changes will be made to the VS arsenal for that very reason.

[@lloydrobins6074]

Which is why I'm probably going to walk away from this game.

[@GearbieFPS]

@@lloydrobins6074 LMFAO AGAIN

[@lloydrobins6074]

@@GearbieFPS what exactly are you laughing at?

[@AMDeZani]

Top of your description's wrong, Cami!

[@raservesthedinner7620]

quote on quote on quote on quote on quote on quote

[@M1kst3r1]

Kills per magazine (headshots | bodyshots): GAUSS SAW: 33 | 20 || Betelgeuse: 11 | 6. SAW is literally 3 to 4 times better for farming than Betel, but Betel still OP? :D

[@Megan-ii4gf]

How often do you "farm" people by holding your mouse on the trigger and not letting go? Let your finger off the trigger for just two seconds to acquire a new target to kill and you've just regenerated half your freaking magazine, and you can kill about 3-4 people in a Betel's magazine without issue. You do not practically have time to run out of ammo unless you're trying to use it as a suppression or squad wiping weapon, which is something it can't do because it's based on Orion, which is in the same category as the MSW-R, for being a small magazine high accuracy weapon. Gauss SAW is in the low accuracy category, except it's overpowered in its own right. Not because of it's magazine of course, but because it has a 200 damage model coupled with huge effective DPS.

[@Ragmon1]

Tl;dr. If you complain enough you can get the devs to make unfair and irrational changes.

[@SS-dc5jz]

except betel，all vs directives are just not that competitive.

[@coryv5679]

All they needed to do was keep the damn Cold Heart implant to it's original form. Having it help with heat was just awesome. Since it's now useless. The heat mechanic is also not that special because if people worry about unlimited ammo they can just use ammo printer which everyone can get.

[@devinmcgee5130]

10/10

[@allanscotch4920]

the VS nerf was so low blow that DBG did a vasectomy to the VS faction just because, while at the same time buffing both NC & TR. a blow so low, they didnt stop with the jewels getting stomped, they cut off both legs of the VS, an eye, broken hands on one arm & broken arm on the other, while giving 2 thumbs up in the direction of NC & TR. AND STILL, people are still calling VS too OP. the nerf didnt stop there, they traveled back in time, killed the VS ancestors just to create a paradox bomb to kill the VS down to its atoms, AAAND STILL, people will still call for VS nerfs... until only NC & TR are the playable factions

[@lloydrobins6074]

And as a result, nor only do I not wish to play VS anymore, I dislike the option of playing TR or NC just because they're the only ones left. Rather I will just stop playing PS2. If that's what they want, they can have it.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

I don't see why you're complaining. VS feels as strong as TR at the moment for me. The underpowered faction is NSO, and the overpowered faction is NC, as things stand.

[@lloydrobins6074]

@@Megan-ii4gf not on the server I play on. I'm on CERES and there VS is regularly walked all over by NC and TR. In any case this thread isn't about which faction is stronger it's about the VS directive weapons being nerfed. Or did you miss that bit?

[@GearbieFPS]

@@lloydrobins6074 you’ve replied to like six comments under this video announcing your departure lmfao

[@lloydrobins6074]

@@GearbieFPS departure from the game, not from these threads. But yes I'm finding myself playing less and less since the nerfs. I really just don't much feel like playing anymore.

[@ThousandTimesNo]

the only thing that bothers me is pronounciation of betelgeuse :D

[@HAOSMIKE]

Bevor and after the nerf, the bettelguese is still the weapon i get killed the most............

[@Carrybou]

Just as a heads up, the description is not the good one ;)

[@CAMIKAZE78]

Tired Cami is an idiot.

[@DzinkyDzink]

The Betel is beating by x2 the next contender for most VS LMG kills among top 500 players. That is COMPLETELY not the case for TR or NC, they enjoy a much varied distribution with gradual but understandble decrease in popularity.

[@chettonex]

When a weapon is THAT popular among veterans, its not because it is used for bragging, but because it is OP. I dont understand why people try to compare it with other LMGs when it is a completely unique weapon. Stats dont matter when you have a unique trait such as heat mechanic (automatic percentual partial reload and infinite ammo). "ItS nOt oP, iTs HaS LoWeR TTK tHan SoME oThEr LMGs!" - VS players who pick Betel in 99% of fights.

[@M1kst3r1]

@@chettonex How many kills per mag do Betel and SAW have respectably? Here's a hint one has 11 and the other has 33 with pure headshots.

[@chettonex]

@@M1kst3r1 stupid comparison. How much bigger is the Betel mag compared to others if shot a few rounds every 5 seconds? Betel can kill an entire faction withoit reloading due to its infinite ammo. Betel is OP due to its heat mechanic and everything that it allows it to do. Betel is OP due to its versatility and unique (OP) trait. Dont compare plain stats if you dont want to sound like... you know.

[@Kyouki13]

Maybe if the VS had more viable LMGs they would use them besides to unlock their goose. It was a slog to unlock it going through the trash that is the VS heavy options.

[@wanderingaming5805]

@@chettonex bro they use the Goose not because it’s OP, it’s because all the other VS LMGs aren’t as competitive of options, aside from the Orion itself. TR and NC both have at least 3 LMGs that out class VS and are viable picks. VS just has statistically worse Orions as it’s options or statistically worse Anchor as it’s options. It’s really sad.

[@samyt681]

VS always gets shafted

[@dragonirfirescar25]

I think weapons getting nerfed is the result of people who only Play one faction and refuse to make a char on any other faction to try those"OP" weapons out in the field afraid it might change their narrative/bias/ingame persona/Forum "Prestige"

[@tatsunote]

Agree completely. I play every faction, and every faction complains that the other factions are op. It's honestly pretty funny.

[@andybatal5764]

The problem with this game is that NS weapons completely take away the point of directive weapons. this game needs a change. Leave NS weapons only for robots, and add at least one more Aurax weapon variant to all factions and change the conditions for obtaining them (for example, include the need to use faction pistols, etc.)

[@Effect_FX]

Scavenger actually makes other guns stronger than the betel. You'll remember that the Betel was nerfed so that if you overheated and swapped to a pistol/medkit or died it wouldn't cooldown until you pulled it out again and physically reloaded the weapon. Scavenger (both rank 4 and rank 5 effects) will always reload your guns even if they have zero bullets in the magazine, except for heat based weapons. The betel nerfs wouldn't have bothered me as much if another VS lmg like the pulsar LSW got a buff/rework to give VS a competitive high capacity LMG.

[@Zeecontainers]

I guess having to press r on your gun is worse than sacrificing an implant slot and needing to kill someone at that disadvantage, with your sidearm, to get some extra rounds Compared to a passive recharge that lets you fire mid "reload"

[@Effect_FX]

@@ZeecontainersGiven how absolutely incredible scavenger is for both solo and teamplay, it's hardly a sacrifice. It does more than reload your primary, it reloads your secondary while you're using it (some pistols in theory would never need to reload). At rank 5 it reloads both guns when you get a revive. You know what the betel can't do? Reload while dead after overheating, not even with scavenger. A passive reload that *slowly* refills a small magazine doesn't compare. Betel's still a top tier weapon don't get me wrong, but the nerfs it got aren't justified if the devs aren't going to give VS an actual high capacity high DPS LMG.

[@Jo-eg8sw]

Betelgeuse nerf okay, all other directive weapons for the VS were nerfed to hard. But if the darkstar becomes viable pray to god. Assault rifle, auto scout rfile combo with better uptime is really scary. Except for the unity, butcher, betelgeuse and fortuna i think all directive weapons are really underwhelming right now.

[@10lbsbiscuit83]

The Trac Shot is a laser now

[@cdr_clutch8711]

1 guy self sufficient forever when air dropped on top of a tower, also.

[@Flagdread]

Hate those guys

[@Azrai030]

Dbg give orion and betel a f ucking compensator option plz ...😑

[@avaliantsoul5408]

The biggest issue (imo) was always the fact that the Heat mechanic allowed them to passively reload while dead on the ground, so when revived they had a full mag, whereas if you died with an empty butcher, you had a 3-4 second reload time, or a 1-2 second switch time to pull out your secondary. as a casual vet though, I'd just put this forward: roughly 60-70% of my deaths to VS heavies are to Beatlegeuse's. Only about 25-35% of my deaths to NC heavies are from GodSAWs, and TR heavies? literally about 10% max. while this doesn't technically mean that the battlegoose is OP, it does make it SEEM that way to the players, and perhaps even to the devs. In reality, what it mostly means (IMO) is that VS has a disproportionate amount of skilled players/vets and that they really need to even it out across the factions (the players themselves do, no dev intervention please) as this does negatively impact the game. on Emerald (my home server) VS wins way more often, and often times the only reason they lose is off-hours or the TR and NC double team (often because VS won the previous alert by a landslide) or because NC or TR abandons trying to win the alert so that they can force the VS to lose (not gonna name any names, but TR does that too much under certain leadership)

[@splishsplash8498]

the reason that VS heavies only use betel is because orion is the only 'good' option for the lmgs. and picking between orion or orion + some convenience is an easy choice. if it was orion, pulsar lsw, or sva, or orion + convenience, the variation would be more significant. all the other options atm are either bad, noncompetitive, or mediocre. arsenal update helped a tiny amount, but not really. there are tons of skilled players on all 3 factions for emerald, and alert victories are not a good gauge of top end player skill, imo, since a lot of them probably dont care about alerts at all.

[@enderluca6752]

Same thing on Cobalt.

[@avaliantsoul5408]

@@splishsplash8498 an excellent point. as much as I dislike the way Bungie nerfs/buffs stuff in D2, looking at how much players use certain weapons can be a useful metric, especially when it seems to be such a massive disparity.

[@Megan-ii4gf]

An empty butcher is like 6 seconds of reload lol. The issue is just that Orion is the best 143 damage model LMG in the game. Betelgeuse is Orion but special. With the current nerf I actually get better results from Orion than Betel though. Butcher I've got over 2k kills with and I think it's mediocre at best, I don't get the hype around it. Its recoil is oppressive, its hipfire is trash, and is absolutely not comparable with MSW-R and Orion. I still, to this day, prefer using my TMG-50 or my T32 Butcher on my TR heavy. I genuinely get better results from them. The heat mechanic is perfectly fine as it is. Finally.

[@avaliantsoul5408]

@@Megan-ii4gf people really hype up mag size, and "damage per mag" as useful stats. beyond a certain point, mag size stops mattering entirely.

[@trucker2b]

Vs got screwed

[@World-Revelations]

First

[@Megan-ii4gf]

The Vanu directive weapons are relatively balanced now. They aren't underpowered, nor are they overpowered. They're finally where they should be. Scavenger as a viable alternative to the heat mechanic? Don't be ridiculous. Nobody is getting pistol kills on demand against someone as good as them. Likewise, 0.45 seconds + 0.36 seconds as a best case scenario would reload 30% of your magazine, so 15 rounds for your MSW-R. That's not your entire magazine and there's no way you're going to pull out your pistol and one-tap 4 people in a row to get 100% of your magazine. It's absolutely not comparable to the heat mechanic and it comes with the opportunity cost of having to use up one of your scarce two implant slots to do so, which means you're not bringing assimilate, or survivalist, or sweeper hud, or whatever else is objectively superior to scavenger. The point about magazine size is more reasonable. Larger magazine weapons will be less likely to suffer from having to reload, the bigger issue there is that of course, eventually, you do reload. And there's always the potential that point is the point your life ends because you simply can't put out damage with your Carv for 6 straight seconds. I'd say that downside is about as limiting as the downside of having to monitor your risk of overheating though, so it balances the two out. That's why I think you're right that the heat mechanic is not a problem any more. If there's anything to complain about, it'd be how bad the NSO faction guns are, or how overpowered the Trawler and Masthead are relative to their counterparts. Or how HESH tanks are way too strong. Or how A2G farming (especially mosquito and airhammer) still exists at all. Or how Liberators completely trash mid pop fights and completely ruin the game. Or how MAXes do the same to low pop fights. Or how infiltrators get an instakill weapon with a cloak and it's okay because it takes "skill". Etcetera. This game is far too heavily based around accomodating "high skill ceiling" players that it just makes the game easy for people who are better and hard for people who are not. The game really should not be designed to do that, but it's what happens. Being just a little bit better than someone else translates to you absolutely annihilating them every single time over and over without mercy. This absolutely should not be the case and it ruins the fun of the game for me. You can't enjoy this game and play casually, you HAVE to tryhard or else you're just going to get demolished repeatedly in some disgusting 60% fight. That's not fair, and the community doesn't seem to care.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

Hate to break it to ya, but I proc Scavenger against players who I would consider to be better than me all the time. It's more than possible, and I hate to break it to you, but the mentality you express at the end of your comment tells me exactly why you believe it isn't possible. In relation to filling up the whole magazine, I never said it was capable of doing that - I said it was possible to use it as an alternative to get a shred more ammo in a pinch if required (which is where the Betel's passive ammo regen works best unless the user takes a BIG break between fights). I agree on a lot of the pain points raised in the centre but won't address each of them indiviually. In relation to the last point - game's with a high skill ceiling keep players around. They keep the dedicated communiy members who want to continue getting better at the game, here. Being better, mechanically, at the game, should net you the win. That is how gaming works as a whole, and it is also how life works. If you have more merit over someone you are competing against, whether it be in a game or for a job interview, they should 100% win. Players who put in the effort should not be punished because they are good at the game because everyone started at the bottom. We all used to be terrible players once - and we improved. We took the time.

[@tacticalturtlez4906]

My issue is less that the vs directive weapons are op, but rather that the nc directive weapons are worse by comparison to the tr and vs ones. Gauss prime is basically just a gauss rifle with HVA and the same gauss rifle attachments. Brawler is just a chaos with 3 more rounds with an arguably useless underbarrel and a longer reload. Godsaw hurts armor about as much as a pistol kills a max. Warden gets disruptor ammo which is useless, tempest has extra ammo and is kinda just a cyclone with a extended mag for free. Fortuna is basically just merc with impulse nades. Oh, and while people don’t use pistols much, executive is a mag shot with 2 less bullets.

[@theonlymann1485]

Brawler is a extended mag default shotgun with a added underbarrel shotgun that has the ability to oneshot people unlike the shotgun its stuck to, GODSAW has similar MBT ttk as the DAGR(wheeze), Gauss prime's inherent HVA allowa you to hit targets like a hitscan at range without forcing to mount HVA, Fortuna's base gun is one of the top tier carbines with only vertical recoil to boot, Tempset's base gun is also the best SMG available to all factions that hit both TTK and Damage right, executive is kind of a meme yeah but its designed to use with disruptor ammo for some reason making it deal about slightly more damage on shielded targets.

[@tacticalturtlez4906]

@@theonlymann1485 yeah not saying they are bad guns just that they are mostly in distinctive from their base weapons with little benefit, comparatively making the directive weapons of the other factions more interesting. Also gauss prime doesn’t even become hit scan when you give it HVA let alone without it. You also sacrifice ever having a 3shot headshot kill.

[@addmen96]

Gauss prime has highest bullet velocity in the class and extremely easy to control, fortuna is overall good, brawler is typical nc kink. Godsaw can be a decent AA and harras tanks. Be grateful your tempest have extended mag in a first place

[@theonlymann1485]

@@tacticalturtlez4906 how so? 675m/s velocity is *faster* than most snipers and all scout rifles in this game. 3 shot headshot kill doesnt really matter at the ranges HVA shines which is definitely beyond 10 meters and gauss prime has a inherent advantage for that. With Hva its the fastest velocity of a automatic weapon boasting about 712m/s, that reaches 300m in lless than half a second.

[@tacticalturtlez4906]

@@theonlymann1485 712? Dude gauss primes maximum muzzle velocity is 750.2 m/s. Which still doesn’t make it hitscan cause that’s not how hitscan works.

[@lc5957]

comically large magazine...

[@MasterRedwing]

Let start by saying that I agree mostly with what you said. I feel that I missed one thing in the video. The power that the heat mechanic keeps is that during a non overheat cooldown you are free to shoot with the gun at any point. While with a normal reload you are locked out from shooting. Yeah you can switch to sidearm but hey now you gotta restart that reload again after the engagement. Right now I think the heat mechanic is pretty balanced. At max a few really small tweaks.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

Definitely something I should have mentioned more in the video. Appreciate the thoughts mate.

[@theonlymann1485]

Scavanger only works on sidearm as such you are locked out on "heavy weapon secondary" ASP. Butcher, even though the description suggests it can be used for long range engagements, cannot do it because it doesnt have compensator/vgrip(was robbed for bqlance reasons, guess i can understand that) VS weapons were buffed after many players complained that it was terrible now, scorpios was reverted to 25 rnd mag(still too low kek), 30 roudn AR/Carbines into 27, betel into 45 rnd(thats 5%)after the buff VS weapons are at a decent state now.

[@EcchiRevenge]

VS deserved the initial 20% magazine size nerf. Heat mechanic giving infinite ammo at the very least is worth an implant slot(not to mention it constantly regenerates ammo and doesn't require weapon switch/kill). Shooting 44 rounds is one of the rarer cases (if you were using orion you would be doing the reload before that, 1v1 usually ends before 20 rounds are fired, and people generally aren't going to feel safe with less than 1/3 of the magazine left). Engineers aren't "everywhere" - especially when you get to decent spots like in 9:34. This is extra obvious when playing as LA - obviously engineers can't follow you everywhere with ammopack. And even if it's nerfed to the ground - just go back to Orion. Regarding msw-r with compensator - who uses compensator on msw-r anyway? Its main shtick is close range and decent(for a lmg) hipfire. It's only "laser-beamy" compared to most of TR's LMG arsenal which typically have worse horizontal recoil. Arsenal update also let Betelgeuse use the likes of vertical foregrip which is a far more significant change in favor of betelgeuse. (or maybe angled grip) And when people say VS is accurate - it's not wrong, VS neither has TR's CARV-like horizontal recoil, nor does it have Gauss Saw's vertical recoil.

[@Calvictus360]

I'd just like to thank you for ruining my VS guns then back stepping your ass all the way back... thanks.

[@CAMIKAZE78]

If you think that I single-handedly had an influence on the VS guns being nerfed, you flatter me way too much in regards to how much sway I have in this game.

[@Calvictus360]

@@CAMIKAZE78 idk, planetside seems to put a lot of stock in their community. The last guy in your position was made lead game design.

[@FusionshadowXJ]

Vanu had the most meta weapon for around 8 years. I don't care if they are weak now - they had 8 years ontop