Let’s Talk... Plot, Or Not | With Julie & Russell | 2018

Simon is joined by his friends Julie and Russell for a discussion, and a bit of a debate all about plot. They were still firm friends by the end, promise.
Russell’s channel Ink and Paper / @inkandpaperblog
Julie’s ‘ Book Chew’ Instagram / bookchew
Books Mentioned…
Snap by Belinda Bauer www.bookdeposi...
Normal People by Sally Rooney www.bookdeposi...
Circe by Madeline Miller www.bookdeposi...
Hot Milk by Deborah Levy www.bookdeposi...
Heartbreaker by Claudia Dey www.bookdeposi...
Pachinko by Min Jin Lee www.bookdeposi...
The Incendiaries by R.O. Kwon www.bookdeposi...
A Girl is a Half Formed Thing by Eimear McBride www.bookdeposi...
The Couple Next Door by Shari Lapena www.bookdeposi...
Mrs Dalloway by Virginia Woolf www.bookdeposi...
Fever Dreams by Samanta Schweblin www.bookdeposi...
Simon Elsewhere...
Simon’s email: [e-mail]
Simon's blog : savidgereads.w...
Simon's Twitter: / savidgereads
Simon on GoodReads: / simon
Simon's podcasts: bookbasedbanter...
Simon’s Instagram: / savidgereads

[@JamieReads]

I love how the woman can see both sides and understand the miscommunication that's happening. 😂❤❤❤❤ BTW... love you all! 😍

[@cheryllovestoread]

I totally saw that! Women do tend to be mediators.

[@Inti313]

I’ve always thought of the difference between plot-driven stories and character-driven stories as the primary source of change. Plot-driven features more external impetus, while character-driven is more internal. My favorite books are when the two work together. Great discussion!

[@InkandPaperBlog]

Sir. It was a great honor to be on your channel. I really enjoyed this entire video and conversation.😊😊

[@chrizs]

/Subscribed

[@lexicon50505]

Russell, you should (if you haven’t) take a look at Alexander Chee’s How To Read An Autobiographical Novel. One essay deals specifically with the plot v no plot question

[@OlyBliss]

When I saw the thumbnail it made my heart sing and watching the video it’s just making me laugh. I haven’t read a lot of these book discussed and it makes me feel like I need to get on with Stoner but also song of Achillies and Cerci. A lot of this sounds like it’s wrapped up in enjoyment of domestic drama and character studies within that type of plot over something like a plot driven book in other styles like fantasy and sci fi. But I particularly agree with what you say about them not being mutually exclusive and when the combo is there it’s beautiful. Omg Simon - Mrs Dalloway is brilliant 😆 but I also agree that character studies are brilliant for a bit of self reflection and insight. Love love love this video- so nice to see you together 😍😍😍

[@LouiseReader]

Wow, what a fabulous surprise this video was. To me, Russell has a narrower meaning of plot than Simon, where (I think) he means external forces/situations, whereas Simon encompasses things that people do, as plot. Story as plot. That's what I think you both think anyway. Julie, who I haven't met before, does a great job of weaving between you both. I'm sorry that she doesn't have a youtube channel still too. Is it still out there though? Confession- I haven't joined instagram! IKR? Maybe it's time? But I don't have time for any other social media....

[@onviekade2893]

The two boys simply have different definitions of the term 'plot'.

[@AilsaVlogs]

This was really interesting! I liked how you all had quite different opinions about some things, and were trying really hard to explain your points of view.

[@columbusmoore9655]

Russell, Simon rockstars!....Julie, we need a channel from you like yesterday!

[@elizabeth2119]

Really enjoyed this. Would absolutely love it if you three could make more of these - you work well together.

[@Dragon-Slay3r]

Well could be a lot worse

[@donnaburger1932]

Quite enjoyed this very bookish conversation. Oh no, Simon Mrs. Dalloway is one of my all time favorite books. But we can disagree on that it’s still a joy to hear discussions with people about books .

[@SamWise24011989]

Brilliant. Very excited for the Russell/Julie podcast but also a little disappointed because I was hoping Russell would be the new The Readers co-host.

[@cheryllovestoread]

Can I just say I was delighted to see the three of you discussing books into infinity through the mirror behind you!?💛🤗

[@emilyweber8216]

I think I’m more with Russel on the “thin plot,” prose-y, character books side. I love The Idiot, Conversations With Friends, Mrs. Dalloway, all those types.

[@OliviaReadinglikeamadwomanPope]

This was such an interesting discussion. Sorry to say that I'm with Russell here. Obviously every book has a plot to some extent, in the same way that every story has character, but I guess it's more about the focus. Like Russell, I can't stand books which are entirely plot focused. I actually find I get bored! Mercedes put it quite well in a wrap up a few months ago when she compared a fast-paced book to sweets you want to eat really fast, but which get sickly in the end. That's totally how I feel about plot. I accept that it's always there, but I don't want to overdose on it!

[@YourTrueShelf]

Great debate!! I will definitely check out your colleagues also. I can't do one or the other, it's all about variety for me. After something fairly literary & possibly lacking in plot, I need something lighter & with a strong plot. I went straight from Jane Eyre to a modern romance as my brain needed a rest! I couldn't just read one or the other. Was really interesting how you felt differently between you. I so remember Gav talking about the woman who walks to the shops thinking about her divorce 😂 love Gav. X

[@vamps_rock]

Really enjoyable debate, and like others have already said I think it boils down to different interpretations of what 'plot' is. Personally I like both plot and character focussed, it depends on the actual premise, and I think I'm quite a bit more accepting of a lower quality writing style so long as the narrative keeps flowing. TFS :)

[@stressedoutofexistence663]

'Frost in May' by Antonia White, a book that has no plot. It's more theme-driven than character-driven as well, since the characters are all part of how White develops her themes.

[@ginathomas237]

I vote for this trio as the new ‘The Readers”🤓

[@ofohsh0]

omg, Simon, do consider.

[@rebeccar9764]

Really interesting chat, as a primarily fantasy reader there is definitely a lot of similar conversation in genre readership at least of character driven vs plot driven narrative, particularly with the growth of mundane fantasy and fantasy of manners as subgenres. Having just finished The Incendiaries as well, I do think the argument there is strong for character driven, so I can definitely get what Russell means in that instance. A major point seems to be establishing the characters as fully fleshed out people in a relationship and just how very normal they are. Building up a real 360 degree view of who they are as day to day people in their relationship(s) and framing their internal lives really is the narrative, which seems the difference of opinion as to whether that and their interpersonal conflict constitutes plot. Either way, it's great fun that this is why we can have literary interpretation and find new things in books years down the road, because how we read them is so varied. I'm really curious if any of you have read The Bricks that Built the Houses by Kate Tempest, as to me it is so incredibly character driven to me, with plotty bits only making up maybe 10% or less. However the heft of the book is establishing parents and grandparents whole lives/loves intricately, entire histories for parents of secondary characters, all leading to the two main characters being throw together in.. a plot.

[@RunwrightReads]

I love the discussion and I enjoy both kinds of books but I think I am most transformed by quiet character studies.

[@amelialuci3]

This video is funnier if you think every time they say plot you think plop.

[@JamieReads]

Amelia haha!!!

[@mradcaqbdb]

I suspect there wouldn’t be much overlap between Russell’s bookshelves and mine. 😂😉 I think I need plot most of the time. One of my recent favorites without much plot (as you all were using the term) is The Many by Wyl Menmuir. I read this book months and months ago and it still stays with me to this day.

[@funaek3601]

Such an interesting conversation! I think I need plot to fully enjoy a book. And I loved Fever Dream, but I thought it was very much a plot-driven book. I felt the need to keep reading to find out what happened. I'd love more discussions like this on a topic with other booktubers!

[@katrinaandallthebooks7993]

I loved this video. I think Common People had a really meaty plot even though it was a relationship study, it reminded me a lot of Fates and Furies. A good book which has everything is Kate Atkinson's Life After Life.

[@bethhinds3744]

I think we’re getting tangled with definitions of ‘plot’ and ‘action’. I think a book can have a lot of plot that is entirely character study and little to no action. Loved this video but felt like screaming throughout! 😆 I love a good character driven plot with less action 😜

[@vacantlots]

OMG my hubby and I have this heated discussion so many times. And it always go into genre discussion and then how I feel Ian McEwan has no plot and I hate it.

[@jacquelinemcmenamin8204]

Russell you should try The Girl From Blind River by Gale Murray The Lost Man by Jane Harper

[@JustJanetAshley]

It's funny that you and Russell are both Booktopians but never attended the same ones.

[@bookishmamablooms2776]

This video is so interesting! I don't really like plot in a book, though that doesn't automatically mean I won't like a book. I think, like Russell, when plot dominates (or in some cases, replaces) character development I just lose interest. And this includes writers like Sarah Waters who I enjoy but don't love (and often skim read in the second half). Scarlett Thomas writes a great novel about a novelist trying to write a book without a plot and that is right up my street 😂it's called Our Tragic Universe 👌

[@Dragon-Slay3r]

This makes me feel brand-new, fancy cherries anyone?

[@SavidgeReads]

I don’t understand?

[@Dragon-Slay3r]

@@SavidgeReads ask the person who's sorry

[@WilliamMay]

Anna Kavan's Ice is largely regarded as absent of plot. It had a fiftieth anniversary printing in 2017.

[@adriana410]

Did Julie volunteer to do this or....

[@drawntostories5940]

Funny video! What I would add to the discussion is definition of the word plot. 'Plot' is the causality of things in the narrative, how the narrative progresses from A to B and so on to the very end. Whereas 'story' is the sum of all parts in the narrative, doesn't depend on the order of things, and it's the reader's job, in a way, to form the story in his head. Several times you mention something like relationship as a big thing - is it a big story or is it a big plot, I wonder.

[@drawntostories5940]

Or, plot answers to the question "what happens in the book" and story "what is the book about"