Lets learn Go basics 2: Good and bad shapes

What shapes are good and what shapes are bad in Go? A brief beginners guide to shapes in Baduk/Go/Weiqi.

[@jonl7855]

I love how go, compared to other board games, has the least “war-like” appearance because it’s just stones and not Kings and knights, and what not, but when you play it, it feels the most like a fight because you’re basically trying to bully your opponent away from territory

[@Tanglangfa]

11years ago but still very helpful. I can only imagine how much you’ve progressed since then!

[@brianpeterbroderick]

This video totally took me to the next level. GO is off the hook.

[@theduddha2]

+Brian Broderick agreed

[@Donteatacowman]

Man, I love your explanations. Whenever I learn something, I really need to know not just advice, but the consequences of ignoring advice (and what I should do in that case). I feel like a lot of explanations would stop at 3:07 and take for granted that I know why white needs to block. I'm ready to feel confused. But then you say "if white DOESN'T block," and I sag in relief. Love this series. I'm going to try to hold myself to watching all of them - and practicing along and replaying parts that I need to.

[@jameswiscott6480]

So glad this series still helps people

[@ryanjulius1047]

I can see that you are truly passionate about Go from these videos that you have created. Thank you so much and never stop playing!

[@Trollfagget]

I liked the description of the "empty triangle" by a chinese commentator. "A shape that looks like it wants to cry, but cannot produce tears".

[@pedrojalapeno4122]

Good thing about Baduk video, 6 years later it's still relevant! Good stuff man

[@InSingularity]

Generally the ponnuki and the turtle shape (your diamond) are considered good shape when the are formed after capturing one or two stones respectively. If they are formed on their own they are considered inefficient and bad shape. The ponnuki when a stone is not captured is simply a diamond, and is not generally considered particularly good shape.

[@futuro2076]

avoid all the tetris shaped shapes ... nice vid,thanks

[@RayVitoles]

+Bee Dilla just remember,connecting 'diagonal' stones is generally bad because most times they cant be cut

[@nallenthepuh]

I loved this video! It's simple but yet it gives me knowledge to dive deeper into it!

[@AstroCow100]

Holy smokes this video helped me so much!

[@theduddha2]

thanks!

[@NorioAS]

Thanks a lot! Direct to the point, easy to understand!

[@DruLeeParsec]

Oh My Gosh, I never noticed the similarity between the bamboo joint and the diamond shape until now. Thank you. I also liked your description of the chair shape. Very well done.

[@TR-pg6xx]

I wish I lived in a area where I knew people played this. So I could play against someone trained...... But I live in the mountains ;-(

[@theduddha2]

yea, if you play it again and listen closely, I do say "after playing elsewhere".. I do kinda mumble it so sorry about that. Thank you for the comment. You guys keep me on the straight and narrow.

[@theduddha2]

I got this info from a few places. I hope I remember them all. The British go organization homepage has a nice link. The books "Shape up", by Charles Mathews and "38 basic Joseki", By Davies I think. I think just from reading about the different flawed shapes that arise from the joseki's being misplayed. and Kageyama's "Lessons In The Fundamentals Of Go". Chapter 8 I think. Hope this helps. There are others I think, I just cant remember right now. Also a amateur teacher at best!

[@laliborio]

such a really good video! Helped me a lot! Thank you!

[@Alex-mi6vp]

Thanks man for the great video! Hope you keep going

[@AndrewSkalak]

Extremely helpful. Thank you!

[@ng658622]

Great video by the way! I really appreciated it, I've been looking for some simple instruction on shape

[@prosoccer95]

Really helpful shit, just hopped in after reading basic rules and had alotta troubles, your vids showed me why lol

[@ng658622]

Hey, that's awesome. I really liked the video, by the way. You did an excellent job of making it simple and easy to understand.

[@m.rochecouste1095]

Very useful material. Sure as hell beats plowing through a book.

[@MarianoLopezMinnucci]

I was looking for something like this, really basic. Thank you very much! ;) The last good shape is called the "net shape" or in japanese "geta".

[@jaredong]

thanks,! clear and useful shape tutorial. subbing!

[@VadimKiselev1982]

Thank you for very interesting videos!

[@theduddha2]

That is a great point. Though that shape may still be good in some cases, it is at best very slow! Making shape just to make shape without any good reason to do so is bad. This is good to point out, thanks!

[@Doriesep6622]

Thanks. Good teaching.

[@theduddha2]

I hope I will play forever. Thank you for the compliment and same to you.

[@ericryckman5174]

I feel armed now. Thank you Sir!

[@theduddha2]

Glad to help

[@theduddha2]

Thanks again for the nice comment Nallenthepuh! Video 3 is just around the corner.

[@theduddha2]

Glad it helped you!

[@ng658622]

At 6:00 white could hane (play on the end of the black group) in order to form a ladder. If you were to keep alternating sides the black group is already dead. Not sure if you saw that or not, so i thought I'd mention it.

[@theduddha2]

Yes, it sure is and I am hoping to do a video on nets in the near future so stay tuned.

[@SNCA-bd7iq]

The shape 2nd from the top (made in black stones) is sometimes referred to as a "table" shape.

[@theduddha2]

True, I am not sure why I did not comment on the ladder. Probably to keep it simple. But I do feel I should have commented on it. Thank you for pointing it out for me. If you watch the video again I added a note on that point and I gave you credit for it. Thanx again!

[@theduddha2]

Yes Get That's it! Thank you. Remember to subscribe if you like. I do these videos for you guys as well as for me! Keep the helpful comments snd suggestios coming.

[@ryanjulius1047]

I was just playing through some possible outcomes with these shapes and i found that really the only way for white to win against the Bamboo Joint and the variations (except for the diamond) is to secure the spots that would make the peaks of the diamonds. I played through tons of different outcomes and i could never find a safe way past this. Any ideas on this?

[@clevermesays]

I like the board!

[@wonskim68]

I also play baduk and good job explaining

[@arikanAX]

thanks for the videos senpai

[@theduddha2]

+Shankar Raghu Please, no senpai! Brother in Go.

[@theduddha2]

Thank you, and subscribe if you did not already.

[@phantomcruizer]

This is a very good video! In all the books I read not one defined these shapes as good or bad....they were mentioned as "attack and defense" only.In fact after watching your video I had to look these shapes up on the "Sensei Library" and not all that you mentioned were there! So theduddha where did you find this information....interested Go beginners want to known :-) Oh BTW I guess this officially make you a Teacher!!... cause you taught me something I did'nt know.

[@antonistsachtanis9004]

Great video man thanks. One question isnt the exaple at 9:28 not possible because of the Ko rule ?

[@uncleswell]

It's easy to miss but he said "white can play right back (after playing elsewhere)" So yeah, bc of the ko rule, they would need to play some where else first before re-entering the ko.

[@alexandre3989]

9:22 White has to wait till the board is changed (play elsewhere), so black can play in the middle.

[@theduddha2]

Good thinking... I am sadly not sure though. Let me know if you hear from a stronger player than me.

[@theduddha2]

When did I say that so I can go back and see what you mean?

[@theduddha2]

You can always move here...Joking.. You can start your own club. I did and after a bit of work, We got around 6 members so far in 3 months.

[@PhucNguyen-ih2lf]

Your example on the diamond and the smaller one (i have no idea what it call) isn't accurate, i don't know if there was "ko" back then but white can capture black back at 9:20...

[@jilow]

+Phuc Nguyen He said after playing elsewhere, but ya that was a bit unclear.

[@kyugajugan3001]

10:07 black has a strong shape... if ya know what i mean O.o

[@Smiiiiiith]

at 9:30, you say white can capture back, and it can, if you want to create an infinite cycle of captures, anyways, good video!

[@francisxes8471]

Smith He mentioned “after playing elsewhere.”

[@HaTeFuLxSiN]

I'm a bit late, but where did you get that board?!

[@theduddha2]

+Anthony Belardo yellow mountain imports . com

[@HaTeFuLxSiN]

theduddha2 What a bummer. It's not on there anymore. Do you know what the name of it was?

[@theduddha2]

Anthony Belardo yeah I haven't been on there in a while. I saw it on Amazon too but that was a long time ago. I think it's discontinued. I got it like 3 or 4 years ago. sorry buddy. I don't remember what it was called. I think it was called a floor go Bon

[@HaTeFuLxSiN]

theduddha2 Haha sounds like my luck. Thanks know you man. I appreciate it. Awesome video BTW.

[@dixonyamada6969]

your example on the tiger was kinda bad. i mean, i just learned it from you, but im pretty sure any time you're about to put a stone on atari, you should direct that stone at the shortest amount of area around it, so you would atari to make white go left instead of going up. also, on the diamond, nobody would ever put a stone into the shape unless it causes an atari or sth cuz thatd be a dead stone. oh and with the empty triangle, i think if you placed white diagonal to black, it wouldnt form a ladder. the ladder is quite a bad example to learn from because its something you must avoid, and if you play it in a real game, chances are you're falling right into someone's plan (if you count the ladder starting from your stone, and it ends up stopping at the enemy' stone, you're doomed). btw, how do you stop someone from making a really long line? I mean, if I dont respond to it in the opening a fight might start there, and if i make a move somewhere else because its still the opening, im letting them start a fight. thanks for the shapes and examples tho.

[@theduddha2]

yea I agree with you. This is an older video and I used to just "wing it" and free flow through a video. I have made a vow to create scripted and better quality videos this year with fewer bad examples and better quality instruction. I do not understand your question about the long line. If you can perhaps give a better description and a time in the video and I will perhaps understand your better so as to try to give you and answer...Thanks for your comments.

[@dixonyamada6969]

theduddha2 Thanks for the reply and the dedication to your videos :). I'm not sure how to explain this, but when I play a bot, they like to play stones next to each other, and right in the middle of my stones (after the fuseki), and if I ignore it and try to make a threat on a sort of even area, they just continue to put a stone, up to like 3-4, and then when they just branch out a bit they somehow have my territory, and proceed to attack the stones I put in the territory I tried to use as a threat. My friend also says that this bot plays in an "annoying" way. I'm not sure if this bot is making a bad move when he does these long lines, and if he's actually making a mistake to go easy on me. I can't explain it much, but if you've ever encountered a game as 'annoying' simply because the bot plays seemingly obvious moves yet still manages to win the game, I hope you can tell me if that's a common mistake, or if there is a name for that, or if it's some type of joseki or the like. Thanks for the quick reply again, and the dedication in these vids, they're something I can actually understand, and the fact that you agreed with me, even if it's some of the points, boosts my confidence. I have a lot of problems with just 'winging' it during a game, so if you could make something with that, then it would be amazing :D

[@theduddha2]

Z Send me a game and I will better be able to see what you are talking about. Bots play in a way to get the most points. Sometimes they are getting hypothetical points that they do not really have but think they do. This is often why they play this way. I would just focus on trying not to kill them and taking big points to start. I almost always lose a game with a bot when I try to kill a group. They can be very frustrating to play. I think I play a few bots on some of my videos. The "my 1st jigo" is one of them and "my ear reddening game is another". You can watch me lost to bots there to help you see that you are not alone.

[@hybrid686]

You can play with people online at gokgs.com

[@theduddha2]

Oh it produced many tears for me many times! lol

[@uyentang4571]

where's bad shape that looks good?

[@HoloBoss]

hes talking like hes a master of the game =D spoiler alarm: hes 6kyu...nothign to learn here, could prbbly beat him in my sleep!

[@theduddha2]

If you watch mine intro video I made it perfectly clear that I'm a beginner. I have never made it past 4th kyu. If I've given you that impression I apologize

[@francisxes8471]

I can’t make it past 20 kyu.... I am very bad at this game.

[@malharjajoo7393]

Didnt enjoy the explanation at all. You were playing all the bad moves for the opponent just to prove a shape as being good :/