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Leung Ting - Biu Tze

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GrayFoxSVK

GrayFoxSVK

Күн бұрын

Leung Ting performing Biu Tze form

Пікірлер: 232
@tristansmith5087
@tristansmith5087 5 жыл бұрын
It's funny because there are plenty of other Biu Jee Examples on the internet with far more likes, but this is the best form I've seen of Biu Jee on KZbin
@JKDVIPER
@JKDVIPER 2 жыл бұрын
This is the teacher of “The Kung-Fu genius Alex Richter.. he’s a pioneer who learned from Ipman..
@javiercisneros8622
@javiercisneros8622 2 жыл бұрын
X 2
@Jw-bg7ue
@Jw-bg7ue 2 жыл бұрын
This man was ip man’s last student
@reyerspaans3861
@reyerspaans3861 Жыл бұрын
Def most others are quite sloppy
@franciscoa8314
@franciscoa8314 Жыл бұрын
@@JKDVIPERdo you train at city?
@Achilles1987
@Achilles1987 13 жыл бұрын
I love GM Leung Ting's forms, in my opinion they are really close to perfection. I am an EBMAS student by the way. There is great Chinese Kung Fu knowledge in his "modified" forms. In EBMAS we inspect every movement in scientific approaches (angles, dynamic&mecanic anatomy of human etc.) so it is obvious that GM Leung Ting knew something before he modified GGM Yip Man's forms. It is not for nothing. But of course other masters could have different approaches to techniques.It's natural
@padrak18
@padrak18 15 жыл бұрын
I studied under Dr.Leung when he was in the U.S. He is Very very good and shows no mercy to his students either. Bye the end of the first day I was one whipped puppy.
@jesusc6871
@jesusc6871 9 жыл бұрын
Alot of shit-talking going on here I see regarding Leung Tings lineage and it's authenticity. Well Ip Man himself simplified the style from an earlier lineage. And Wing Chun itself was simplified from Traditional Shaolin Kung Fu and it's still evolving to this day by students of the Leung Ting and other lineages. It's evolution guys... and I personally welcome it. I myself am student under his lineage which has been modified even further (and for the better in my opinion) but I still rate Leung Ting because he was one man who took the time and effort to explain about the whole system in detailed books and provide a structured system for grading. Something Ip Man, Ip Chun/Ching themselves failed to do before. He's given his knowledge of the system to the world and deserves credit.
@nelsontorres5087
@nelsontorres5087 7 жыл бұрын
Jesus C.
@frankmartinez4856
@frankmartinez4856 8 ай бұрын
Leung Ting Sigung, always had good stuff! Always looking for the 8mm of the five pattern Hung Kuen 😳
@changsau
@changsau 16 жыл бұрын
alot of the moves in this form are to recover from already losing ground or balance or centerline.your get turned sideway a lil that bui tze elbow is most effective
@narayanr
@narayanr 17 жыл бұрын
I'm happy to see the Bil Jee performed. It's very magnanimous of Master Leung Ting to share this form with us.
@zoolkhan
@zoolkhan 16 жыл бұрын
makes sense. it sbeen said : the bju tse form doesnt leave the house. its tought first hand only, you cannot learn wing chun / wing tsun from videos anyways. equally bad you can judge on it by watching youtube. this video has been recorded long ago for wing tsun students, and not as PR movie or for epeen constesting on youtube. GGM dr leung ting is a nice and able person i shook his hands and enjoyed his punches first hand. i dont judge. or talk bad about other branches and styles.
@davidbermudez7704
@davidbermudez7704 11 жыл бұрын
Ting is from the Ip Man lineage I respect that he just made his own style of Wing Chun.
@maartenpsion9036
@maartenpsion9036 4 жыл бұрын
This looks so insanely deadly indeed. You can defeat anyone with this; buakaw, badr hari, Fedor you name it!
@djbraincrash
@djbraincrash 13 жыл бұрын
he is perfect
@tmaxted91
@tmaxted91 10 жыл бұрын
Great version of the Bil Jee form
@LivakProductions
@LivakProductions 4 жыл бұрын
Bil Jee? Do you mean Biu Tze?
@M43k0
@M43k0 15 жыл бұрын
This music in the background is interesting!
@mofotox
@mofotox 17 жыл бұрын
True, his form is quite decent. After all, he learned from Leung Sheung first. As for his character and ethic...that's a different story. I wonder if you can find more footage and photos of L Thug around that time. He used to like to post CK MA with exaggerated 45 degrees lean backward. WSL used to make fun of him. L Thug does not do the 45 thing anymore thou.
@B.P.0
@B.P.0 14 жыл бұрын
Wow, that's so beautiful.
@Nightwolf866
@Nightwolf866 12 жыл бұрын
@bl00zjamma Yes I Can. It's for Building Strength in the forearms.(what only works if u don't Move the rest of ur Arm) Applications are:breking armlocks,sneak in better striking positions and striking with the side of the hand (in and outside)
@prchdaword
@prchdaword 17 жыл бұрын
Ip Ching, who is Ip Man's youngest son and trained the most with him especially at home, says differently ...see his history of Wing Chun DVD...
@princeandras
@princeandras 15 жыл бұрын
This is a very old video. I see no kwai jarn, here. According to my knowledge this is because at that time he did not know that kwai jarn was in the form, so he later added it into it. Perhaps there should be an other video put up.
@theplunkinator
@theplunkinator 14 жыл бұрын
Don't forget about how Leung Ting beat up his baby mama! What a wonderful Wing Chun role model.
@danijelgrahovac3918
@danijelgrahovac3918 Жыл бұрын
I am become a master with this video....
@11Kralle
@11Kralle 11 жыл бұрын
If Your ligaments and muscles are not strenghtened by preliminar exercises and professional teaching. These biutze-sets look much like wrist, hand and elbow techniques, but it works with the whole body (look after the Golgi-apparatus, if You don´t know it already)!
@axlegreen
@axlegreen 17 жыл бұрын
The movement you draw attention to is the don fak sau. This swinging arm movements is one of the most powerful movements your body can make, think of it if you will as the same kind of low to high swing that a cricke batsman makes and is able to drive the ball back down the ground over the head of the bowler.
@shua559
@shua559 16 жыл бұрын
wing chung very powerful its all mind over matter ........good video
@ronaldocenteno7937
@ronaldocenteno7937 2 жыл бұрын
Hola mucho gusto es un placer saludarle
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@shiyongshuomingshu of course, and that. @WingChunLova I recalled the story of WSL's defeat.Pretty funny one actually; it happened during his first years with Yip Man, all the older students were fighting in the Bei Mo fights and he was fretting about the fact that his name hadn't been nominated yet to participate.The fights took place every weekend and Yip Man wrote the names of the ones who would fight on a board at the gym before he left.So the first time Yip Man wrote his name down he got
@axlegreen
@axlegreen 17 жыл бұрын
The reason he stops quite so high is that to stop the arm swinging upwards requires tensing of the muscles, something we try to avoid in wing tsun. Our forms our not devised to look good but to teach (partly) a relaxed skill of striking through your enemy, resulting in what you see as "poor form." I hope this helps, as my own knowledge of the biu tze form is very scant.
@MASTERY1992
@MASTERY1992 11 жыл бұрын
legend.
@TURINMACLEOD
@TURINMACLEOD 13 жыл бұрын
What dance is this?
@prchdaword
@prchdaword 17 жыл бұрын
I have heard the same thing from very credible sources especially from Ip Man's own family...Ip Ching can especially attest to who was "in" and who was not...goodness, he only lived and trained with his father in a more intimate way than other students.
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
You probably don't know the old days in Hong Kong. Yip & Ip are the same in Cantonese. GM Ip (or Yip?)Man's 2 sons are IP CHUN & IP CHING, you know?
@arHei777
@arHei777 15 жыл бұрын
i think the execution is fine, irrelevant of the other issues you are mentioning. Do you have any documents you can prove them with, or are they just rumours you heard?
@prchdaword
@prchdaword 17 жыл бұрын
Granted. BUT Ip Ching had already started his training and still, as a son, had more intimate knowledge of Wing Chun from his father than any student would have had simply because he lived with Ip Man. Also a fact that only 5 students ever completed the entire WC system under IP Man...Ip Ching is one of those
@prchdaword
@prchdaword 17 жыл бұрын
My Sifu, Master Ron Heimberger has personally told me what SiGung Ip Ching has said about this and Ip Ching attests to it himself in the Wing Chun history lecture he has on DVD
@axlegreen
@axlegreen 17 жыл бұрын
Or try it, have a friend hold a pillow or pad face down and swing your arm upwards in this fashion. If you are nice and relaxed you should have no difficulty generating a significant amount of power.
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@11Kralle Oh sure, I was just talking about the ''undefeated'' title WSL had regarding his Bei Mo fights, not that he was ''undefeated'' overall. I think I even posted a story of one of WSL's defeats, his first practice Bei Mo fight, in the comments section of this video. I'd rather not debate about LT because as you may have noticed I'm not really fond of him in general, so no need to release the Kraken:) Cheers!
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@WingChunLova It's never claimed that he hasn't been, it's only natural to get beaten if you participate in fights throughout your life, I was only stating the fact that it was WSL not LT that had the ''undefeated'' title in Hong Kong, there has been no such claim about LT. Information is everywhere, I got it second hand thanks to my lineage, but you can find it on the net too if you want to.
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
I personally got it from Master Ip Chun in 1985. Did you actually get the info from Master Ip Ching?
@awakenedstream
@awakenedstream 16 жыл бұрын
martial arts are meant to be learned from person to person. and i highly doubt he released them with the goal of teaching everyone biu tze, most likely the dvds are just meant to give a general overview of the system. iirc this is from his dynamic wing tsun dvd
@PhongThanhLuu-yn8zb
@PhongThanhLuu-yn8zb 9 ай бұрын
The Grandmaster i Not members 😊
@woeskwee
@woeskwee 11 жыл бұрын
It's funny, I study wing chun, and I thought the same thing the first time I saw that.
@111mcraig
@111mcraig 5 жыл бұрын
The video commentary is as hilarious as the technique is flawless. For the non wing chung practitioners: our forms are not proper fighting techniques because in our forms we are training both sides of the body at once. Watching this is comparable to watching Daniel doing Mr. Miyagi's chores no ones going to get hurt but without context it's meaningless. For those comparing this to ballet: that's actually a super accurate comparison. Give me 6 months of training with a professional dancer and they will be a terrifyingly powerful martial artist! A dancers strength, body awareness, choreography and partner training are all transferable. Furthermore; our system was not meant to be the long road to no where that it got turned into.
@bordereye
@bordereye 17 жыл бұрын
I want to avoid any possible misunderstanding: I said that Leung Ting's WC is good, not that is a good idea to join his organization! You are never going to learn anything good under greedy Kernspecht: he teaches a poor WC, quite different from the one Leung Ting teaches in China. I know it sounds crazy as they are bosses of the same company -I was disgusted when I found out that. It's a long story. However, STAY AWAY FROM THOSE PEOPLE.
@wtchris7
@wtchris7 17 жыл бұрын
Who is your sifu? i also agree with what you were saying
@actionoob
@actionoob 14 жыл бұрын
sound effects added?
@And-Or101
@And-Or101 17 жыл бұрын
Leung Ting rocks.
@MasteringParagliding
@MasteringParagliding 14 жыл бұрын
@Skahighh he was acquited, the injuries were inconsistent with her story
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@WingChunLova Actually nope, WSL fought Bei Mo fights in Hong Kong between his ages 18-35, some claim that he has hundreds of victories but the more sturdy resources (such as himself) claim to have around 60, undefeated.He even got the nickname Gong Sau Wong (the king of talking hands) in the underground. Tehehe I haven't been able to go to one of his seminars yet, but as far as I've watched on the internet they are highly ''entertaining''.
@anonymoose9907
@anonymoose9907 2 жыл бұрын
So I attempted this without having first grasped enough controlling skills and I chopped myself in the throat, crushing my arteries and windpipe while also somehow severing my spinal cord and now I am in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.
@kraftwerk974
@kraftwerk974 3 жыл бұрын
Leung ting 😁😆😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤭🥱🥱🥱
@prchdaword
@prchdaword 17 жыл бұрын
Just curious, but what does Ip Chun say about Leung Ting's credibility in completing the Wing Chun system up to the Baat Jaam Do with Ip Man?
@FightingWarrior
@FightingWarrior 17 жыл бұрын
Leung Ting was only a Siu Lim Tau student and not even Leung Sheung's disciple, but a student of a student...
@11Kralle
@11Kralle 12 жыл бұрын
IpChun is the son of YipMan - thats all the credit I can give to him. The video above shows the old Biutze-Set as it was taught by the late YipMan. The LeungTing-System teaches nowadays an earlier BiuTze-set with one additional kwan-Sao-movement. Before You ask: I would rather recommend YipChing than his brother, but he is not that good as real accomplished WingChun-Practicioners. Have a nice day!
@mgk22
@mgk22 13 жыл бұрын
@miellikkiful wait which photo did he forge because if its the one I think your referring to its been proven to not be forged further more he has good posture but hes making it look bad in this video on purpose, anyone who trained under Leung Ting during that time knew that in these videos he displayed the forms wrong like he is here so that anyone trying to learn Wing Chun from these videos would be learning the wrong way unless from him directly
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
The reason I know is before Master Ip Chun taught me Baat Jaam Do in 1985, he told me the story of BJD, that's why I know 8 but not 5 according to him. That was a private lesson (1 to 1 lesson). I am sure he would tell my other sihing the same story when he taught them.
@thedigitalshed
@thedigitalshed 17 жыл бұрын
Ting as he was called did not learn BJ he copied others then changed his anyway. and tillerbear dude Leung Sheung wasnt the most senior and in fact spent the least amount of time with Gm Ip. He left to start his own school because he came from a poor family and needed the money.Sifu Lok spent the longest time with Gm Ip a few months more than WSL. LT is a better businessman than a VT teacher of allmightyness. LOL
@76kamikazi
@76kamikazi 10 ай бұрын
At one time Leoung Ting seemed like a very legitimate Kung fu practitioner his stuff seemed very effective back in the days.But i think ego money and fame sent him off the deep edge and it seemed like everything he started doing at a certain point became less effective and more for showmanship.
@nicolapanicucci1737
@nicolapanicucci1737 7 жыл бұрын
Sempre bella da vedere la biu jee di Leung ting,tanti non la capiscono...Guardate con attenzione!!😊
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
So you just heard it from someone, right? Master Ip Chun told me the history of Wing Chun way back in 1985 in his place. I don't think Master Ip Chun would lie to me. What do you think?
@zoolkhan
@zoolkhan 16 жыл бұрын
this is from the even older VHS casette. regards zool
@M43k0
@M43k0 15 жыл бұрын
sure.... to earn money
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
Being continious while performing a form isn't something to be proud of.The reason for these forms are to train the body to the needs of Ving Tsun (or WC, WT etc) as much as possible, every single fuk sau, tan sau etc is a punch, not some fancy movement to block an attack.The forms must be performed slow, with explosive power during some punches.It's not a dance, it's a martial arts form.Oh and if your trainers tell you to put 100% weight on just one foot at any time, just RUN AWAY from there!
@killertoad
@killertoad 15 жыл бұрын
That's not answering the qeustion. Gary Lam is not young either. And as to Velasca's question - Yes, he would. Even if Leung Ting was 40 years younger than he is now
@alliaxandromeda
@alliaxandromeda 15 жыл бұрын
What is the name of the shirt thing he wears? I've been trying to find out what that style of shirt is called for ages....
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@GaolisVideoLog 黃淳樑 there you go. Good luck with your research.
@Majic275
@Majic275 13 жыл бұрын
@Disipol You're half right. There's a lot of questions surrounding his lineage and some people have said he lied about ever training with Ip Man. The only thing we know is... We don't know. Leung Ting claims Ip Man chose him as his successor but there's no real proof, and as he's a closed door student nobody can vouch for him either. My personal theory is that Leung Ting probably did train with Ip Man, but I don't buy into his story about Ip Man choosing him as his successor, seems a bit odd...
@theScytheofGod
@theScytheofGod 14 жыл бұрын
Many of my old Wing Chun teachers told me stories about Leung Ting; all of them bad. I bought this video 20 years ago, and it has good information on it, but as far as the man himself, I don't trust him.
@Steadno
@Steadno 15 жыл бұрын
is that right?
@zoolkhan
@zoolkhan 16 жыл бұрын
>Then he retracted the fists without the >"rolling fist"(for lack of a better term). huen-sao for you, mister expert.
@hk91583
@hk91583 15 жыл бұрын
ummmm....no it's not...they're just different versions of romanized chinese. Yip man (cantonese) = "Ye wen" (mandarin)
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@cciemail I respect anyone who gives a time of their day to study any form of martial arts, one doesn't have to be a master to earn respect. However, if said person is known to be a cheater, fraud and a liar; no, I will not respect them in any form. Even if they are a self proclaimed ''grand master''. I study VT and this is my lineage: Ip Man -> Wong Shun Leung -> Philipp Bayer -> Nedret Kılıç -> Me Earnest question; how did you come to the conclusion that I don't know what I'm talking about?
@kwokcheungpang7440
@kwokcheungpang7440 8 жыл бұрын
john pang in here 2015
@doctor-dan
@doctor-dan 15 жыл бұрын
Well said, I'll add you just for the last line. I'm a wing tsun student myself and hearing all those wing chun william chung people saying a lot of stupid things just makes me sick. It would be much more easy to just train and enjoy the martial art insted of using all that energy into arguing! The Biu Tse does not leave the house, and no, one can't learn wung chun from videos, ebooks and without a proper instructor!
@theplunkinator
@theplunkinator 15 жыл бұрын
I did not forget about WSL. He was terrible and egotistical. When he took a hit in a street fight he had the nerve to ask Yip Man why he took a hit, instead of trying to grow in the system and realize his shortcomings, he assumed that the shortcoming was with Wing Chun.
@kwokcheungpang7440
@kwokcheungpang7440 8 жыл бұрын
this is wing chun kuen kung fu biu tze
@Velasca
@Velasca 16 жыл бұрын
Would Simon Lau or Gary Lam beat him in a fight?
@cinzahno
@cinzahno 15 жыл бұрын
somebody now the name off the song???
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
Sorry, typing error. Should be : He never learnt any BJD from his master or GM Ip Man,...
@kellyredblu
@kellyredblu 12 жыл бұрын
está faltando 3 entradas, da sequência, cavalo voador , jum sao e mãos que procuram a ponte.
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
He's missing "man-sau" in the first part of "cup-joun" & the "man-sau" at the last part's way too high. It's only up to the shoulder's height. The way to turn the feet is way different from GM IP MAN. Check GM IP MAN's "Chum Kui" video and you'll see the difference.
@mgk22
@mgk22 13 жыл бұрын
@miellikkiful so it is the same photo that I thought you were talking about, I wont lie seems pretty convincing the only thing is Leung Tings head is smaller than that guys head it shouldnt fit over the other guys head that good especially by that times standards I know a thing or two on photography. whether or not it is doctored though he was still his closed door student. I personally dont like Leung Tings character but still doesnt affect his position as far as Wing Chun goes,
@Gyatus1
@Gyatus1 14 жыл бұрын
Szubjektív véleményem az ,ha valaki megérti az eredeti LT Wing Tsun-t,több lehet ebben a világban!
@Bootyholic19old
@Bootyholic19old 17 жыл бұрын
@coolremo88: It is pronounced Byuu Ji
@boothdos
@boothdos 14 жыл бұрын
Ting is in the same boat as William Cheung. What a shame...!
@theplunkinator
@theplunkinator 14 жыл бұрын
One more addition, there is a perfect phrase in Cantonese for people like Leung Ting and William Cheung: Doa lo yut cheung hung. It means that you are empty (lacking substance) when you get old, because you were empty from the beginning.
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
@WingChunLova Well the master who is known to be undefeated in Hong Kong is not Leung Ting, it's Wong Shun Leung.There is no record of Leung Ting being undefeated, I mean look at him, he can't even keep his posture right.All he is good for is politics and commercializing a respectable martial arts form.. He even forged photos of himself and Yip Man just for publicity, I really feel sad about it all..
@bordereye
@bordereye 17 жыл бұрын
So, if LT used bigger knives would it mean that he was Ip Man's student? Of course not. I know what do you mean, ac338; anyway, I think that doesn't prove LT's incompetence. Everyboby, as well as LT, has seen at least one picture featuring Ip Man in 'Kuan sao' with the BJD. LT could use bigger knives to try to hide his ignorance. Besides, a student can modify his master's teachings to improve them. Probably LT wasn't an Ip Man's pupil, but we cannot get it from that.
@goestyou
@goestyou 14 жыл бұрын
and as with all wing chun vids the asian nerds come rushing in to start flamewars, gee the asian nerds must be dancing their socks off since the advent of the internet
@WingChum
@WingChum 15 жыл бұрын
Leung Ting looks to have Indo-Asian blood in his ancestry as well as Chinese. He looks like some of my Pakistani relatives.
@ac338
@ac338 17 жыл бұрын
Some sifus don't even know the techniques and how can they teach students? Take a look at LT. He never learnt any BJD from his master of GM Ip Man, but he used a pair of little knives (compare to GM Ip Man's BJD) to teach students. Question : how would the students learn the proper BJD techniques if the sifu doesn't even know BJD?
@M43k0
@M43k0 15 жыл бұрын
@ Valesca & killertoad: Oh i found a wrong (younger) Gary Lam... so , i don't know! Does this matter? I mean, in real fighting you use a surprising attack to bring down your opponent, because you can't win vs a pitbull that is training 12 h a day. But if you must fight, then you must do your best to win and safe your life. Running away also safes lifes! Fighting is not a question of honor, it's a question of life. Don't you think so?
@lordtains
@lordtains 15 жыл бұрын
what are you talking about
@GrafRollo
@GrafRollo 16 жыл бұрын
Good Video, but the shown form is not complete!
@shroomedup
@shroomedup 13 жыл бұрын
oh and even tho he might be defeated in your world, Please answer me this: Why is GM kernspecht one of the most respected persons around? Why did another student of Leung Ting defeat William Cheung? Indeed, think before you talk, even if he would be a phoney he raised more super talents than u ever will, I mean cmon.... Emin Boztepe & GM K. Kernspecht are not some regular names in Martial Arts. Grow up internet gangster.
@11Kralle
@11Kralle 13 жыл бұрын
@miellikkiful Wong Shun Leung is not undefeated! No one is - not even Yip Man! The day LeungTing appears to be dead - which may last as long as one pleases - will be the cornerstone for the next round of the great WingChun-struggle. He has taught WingChun to more of his actual concurrents than you would ever believe. My comment to your notes: LeungTing has influenced the technically accuracy of the wingchun-training method most! Your notes about it are a testimony of misunderstanding it all!
@wingtsun20
@wingtsun20 16 жыл бұрын
body weight in strikes thats stupid... the whole point of bui tze is exerting the force through the fingers.. You compare what he is doing to the laws of science then that proves who is right!!
@miellikkiful
@miellikkiful 13 жыл бұрын
pretty hyped up and a bit overconfident I must add.Philipp Bayer says that WSL didn't remember a thing about that fight, he was knocked out the moment it began. The truth is, Yip Man wanted to tame WSL a little, so he was put against the best fighter of Bei Mo for his first match, a mantis style practicer.Well, it seems like it's worked wonders, after that incident he settled down a little, concentrated on his VT and went back to fight in Bei Mo when he actually was ready.
@paulstefan
@paulstefan 15 жыл бұрын
Wong Shun Leung is the real master.
@roadragevirus
@roadragevirus 12 жыл бұрын
Tings father was a rich man,Ting paid Yip Man a fortune for 90 hours of private lessons.Yip 'corrected' what Ting had earlier learnt,of course the money went to fuel Yip Mans Opium addiction
@alkaline8989
@alkaline8989 5 жыл бұрын
made my day
@theplunkinator
@theplunkinator 14 жыл бұрын
Lol, Just because someone is famous doesn't mean they are good. That's all I'm trying to point out. But if you want, tell me what to do. I'm never done a "cyber" challenge before. I'd much prefer a physical one. If there is anyone in the Houston area who wants to set something up I think that would be much better, but it's whatever.
@Steadno
@Steadno 15 жыл бұрын
...and when you get taken to the ground, what then?
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