Elden Rings most MISUNDERSTOOD mechanic

[@Leviathannohit]

PSA: If you see IGGMs "article", they stole my script for this video word for word, even with the chapter names. Correction: This video is not to say these weapons are impossible to get, if you dont farm for one it will take hundreds of hours to come across them by chance but farming for them actively makes even the toothpick not take too long.

[@GilboPaints]

It took me 4 days of on and off farming

[@hostolis]

Don’t hate me... but with the scarab, the bird’s foot and respec at 50 arcane I got it in 45 minutes of farming 😬 I just got really lucky I guess

[@GilboPaints]

I am happy for you tbh

[@rage_tv4493]

Dude it took me 4 hours to get the executioners greataxe some wym not too long

[@ysera6072]

Yeah, some of the weapons in ER were a pain in the ass to get. I made it a goal of mine to get 2 of every weapon and 1 of every piece of armor without cheating/modding and there were some pretty awful farms. The great envoy horn was by far the worst one. Id rather farm 5 noble toothpicks than get even 1 envoy horn agian.

[@Mooo105]

You have a bag with 1000 total marbles in it. 5 of them are blue and the rest are red. You really want the blue ones (0.5% chance) Doubling your item discovery doubles how many blue marbles there are, but doesn’t take away any red marbles. That’s all the formula is saying.

[@minigooshey]

Thank you sir

[@yasinhenfs4540]

damn, what a smart approach

[@AE-or7xd]

Thx for saving my time

[@CatroiOz]

Very elegant explanation

[@nickthompson1812]

That’s ass! At least it’s not a large change but still a hindrance.

[@TRPB-]

It's always cool to find out later that something you found in your first playthrough turns out to be an extremely rare drop

[@ENTZY.]

@greirat22 I got the envoys great horn on my first run lol

[@backonlazer791]

I got two noble's slender swords before I started to farm for any weapons.

[@salvadorgarcia673]

I got the cat helmet

[@backonlazer791]

@@salvadorgarcia673 I had to google in order to see if you're pulling my leg. I assume you mean the Imp Head (Cat)? I don't think I have that one yet, since I didn't even know it was an option.

[@the666eht]

@@backonlazer791 I got the imp head in the first hour of my first gameplay, pretty neat.

[@abmeda]

i farmed the Royal Toothpick for about 20 minutes, i finally got 1 and thought: huh wouldn't it be cool if i wield 2 of them? i killed another one and boom another toothpick, my lucky day

[@aidenc6343]

😁

[@garetnuite3508]

I spent ages farming the beastmans cleaver in farem azula and later when running by the same beastman I had been farming to get to the dragon lords areana so cure the frenzy flame he dropped another one

[@leonardollanos6600]

Which one is the royal toothpick

[@djdutchgamer40]

@@leonardollanos6600 if you're asking what weapon, it's the 'noble's slender sword'

[@Barricader4697]

@@djdutchgamer40 is it even good

[@tpotshax8703]

The only thing missing in this video explaining discovery is how the drop chances of items are effected by realistic numbers. I now know how effective 0 and several million discovery is, but I have no idea how effective 324 discovery is.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

200 is 2x the drop rate of 100. 300 is 3x the drop rate of 100, or 1.5x the drop rate of 200. 400 would, theoretically, be 4x the drop rate of 100, 2x the drop rate of 200, and I suck too much at math to tell you what it is to 300. If you double the stat, you double the drop rate.

[@QuadfishTym]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Pretty much true and good enough as a rule of thumb. I've spent an honestly regretful amount of time staring at this formula and have a few other trends to note: tl;dr Investing in more discovery/arcane is most valuable if you're farming rare items and don't already have much discovery. The more common the item and the more discovery you already have, the less 'value' you get out of spending more points on it. * Similar to what you're saying, starting from a base stat of 100 discovery, multiplying that stat by X *pretty much* multiplies any drop chance by X. E.g. Achieving 200 discovery basically multiplies drops by 2x, 300 discovery by 3x, etc. * At base drop chances less than 10%, the extra chance granted by discovery might be rounded down. So at very low base chances, you might have to add multiple discovery points before you actually see an improvement. (This doesn't really make those points 'less valuable', it just means you have to add multiple points to get the full benefit) * As the base drop chance increases, the chance improvement granted by discovery decreases. E.g. if you have 200 discovery: * A 1% drop would a ~2% chance (=2x) * A 10% drop would have an ~18% chance (=1.8x) * A 50% drop would have a ~67% chance (=1.3x) * As the base drop chance increases, the 'value' of each new point of discovery obtained (i.e. how much your chances improve compared to previous levels) decreases. E.g. if you have 200 discovery: * At 1% drop, each new point of discovery is about as valuable as a new point was at 100 discovery * At 10% drop, each new point of discovery is ~85% as valuable as a new point was at 100 discovery * At 50% drop, each new point of discovery is ~48% as valuable as a new point was at 100 discovery * Also as discovery increases, the value of each new point of discovery (as per point above) decreases. E.g. for a 10% drop item: * Adding a point at 150 discovery is ~92% as valuable as a new point at 100 discovery * Adding a point at 200 discovery is ~85% as valuable as a new point at 100 discovery * Adding a point at 250 discovery is ~77% as valuable as a new point at 100 discovery

[@lucascamelo3079]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 straight forward like this? This is rare, lol

[@Barclid]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 The drop rate isn't doubled, the number of valid options out of the total is doubled. So if it's 5/1000 originally, doubling it becomes 10/1005. The difference being that you aren't replacing invalid rolls with valid rolls, but adding valid rolls to the invalid rolls. Saying the drop rate doubles is close enough at the low numbers of discovery that are attainable in the game, but not at higher values. The math is pretty simple, if you look up the formula. With a drop rate of 0.5%, at 324 discovery your drop rate is 1.582%. Just a little over triple the original drop rate. The way it scales at very large numbers, however, means it falls off dramatically the higher you go. So at 12,800 discovery, the drop rate is ~39.14%, rather than the 64% it would be if you simply doubled the drop rate as you doubled your item discovery. Double the item discovery again to 25,600 and the formula will tell you a 0.5% item will increase in drop rate to ~56.26%, well shy of the 128% drop rate that you would get if doubling discovery doubled drop rate. At 274 discovery, you get ~1.289% drop rate and at 175 discovery you get ~.797% drop rate.

[@solar9055]

@@lucascamelo3079 not exactly straight forward, but basically. if you double discovery you *nearly* double drop chance, almost double, but not exactly. practically it doubles though so it doesnt really matter.

[@zartam2188]

We can roughly translate the formula with: Discovery 200 = x2 the drop rate, and discovery 300 = x3 the drop rate.

[@quolack9479]

Of that's correct then essentially the best possible chance for those .5% items becomes relatively A 1.5% chance (don't worry, I showered today)

[@jozzi65830]

@@quolack9479 it would be a 1.62% drop chance if 300 discovery really meant 3x the drop chance

[@the_green_band6154]

@@jozzi65830 he said relatively meaning close to it

[@BigDBrian]

@@jozzi65830how tho? "x3 the droprate" when the droprate was 0.005 is just 0.015 or 1.5% edit: Oh nevermind I see, with 324 item discovery

[@quolack9479]

@@jozzi65830 the video stated you could never get to 100% drop rate , I don't know how that math works out specifically so I lowballed it just in case

[@SharkyShocker]

I wish you talked about what 199 Discovery actually gets you for 0.5% drop rates and also give other examples of what achievable numbers can get you.

[@Garryl367]

200 Discovery ups the drop rate of the 0.5% items to ~0.995%. However, due to rounding, 199 Discovery only increases it to ~0.896%.

[@SharkyShocker]

@@Garryl367 Good to know! Thank you so much for the info!

[@tree2992]

in the achievable ranges, discovery is actually quite impactful. The video is kinda misleading with the "2million discovery?!?!" stuff.

[@Altrop]

It would turn 0.5% into like 0.9%. As a rule of thumb, for items with a 8% drop rate or lower, you can just pretend 200 Discovery is twice as often, 300 discovery is 3x as often. In reality the odds are slightly lower but it's close enough to not matter.

[@dominobuilder100]

Yeah exactly, I felt like he went in the wrong direction and got off track with the video. I wanted to know the probability with max discovery

[@yaboikiba4302]

As someone who likes to describe himself as a "hoarding goblin", I decided 2 months after the game released that I would get each and every armor piece, both altered and unaltered, and two copies of every weapon just in case I wanted to power stance them As I started the farm, the whole thing was pretty simple and uneventful. Pretty long farms, but most of them where fairly easy. I fully respec'd into an arcane build and farmed for a shit ton of fowl feet bc I knew I would need em. I watched a shitload of movies and finished some series. On some instances, I even played another game while farming since it was muscle memory at that point There are 3 particular farms that have scared me deeply. Number 3 is the fucking Altered Fire Prelate armor, that shit doesn't drop, I just doesn't, I spent around 2h beating the shit out of the same guy for one drop. Number 2 is Dominula, not because the old hags are hard, but because there are so many pieces of armor and weapons that I spent around 3 days farming the same spot. And the most annoying piece of shit farm, as Leviathan said, has to be the Envoy Greathorn. I didn't get much chances to even try my luck at the drop, bc I kept dying again and again to the fucking ants, or maybe one of the bubbles could hit me and throw me to the fucking void. Sometimes I even fell bc one of the flowers decided to stand right where I landed and I fucking slipped on it and broke my ankle. The moment I got one drop I just decided to quit. I don't need to power stance a giant bubble-making trombone. Envoy's Longhorn is better than this shit, and I have like 4 of those. Fuck it And here I am now, like fucking 9 or 10 months later, farming for this fucking trash weapon bc I decided I REEEEEEALLY need 2 of each weapon. I'm dumb as shit.

[@asad-nd5tf]

i look up to you

[@DemonLordSparda]

I did all of this except for one weapon, because using two of the same weapon is boring. Your analysis of the agonizing farms is spot on. Also thanks to you... I now know I'm missing the Altered Fire Prelate chest piece. Thanks, sarcastically and sincerely.

[@ITBEurgava]

Envoy greathorn... My faith build must be lucky af...

[@RABBITdotS]

I farmed for horns 2 days ago. All 3 horns drops in one spot and there are no ants on the way (used Haligtree town grace)... Took me about an hour to get 1 of each horns with 256 discovery. 2% chance at 100 Discovery => ~5% at 256. 2 Giant Oracle Envoys on the farming route => ~10 runs needed, as I understand it

[@michaelscott9040]

You are a MAD MAN lol

[@KururuFrog]

0:40 that "oh no" felt so real

[@pastafanatic9586]

Holy shit I didn’t know that royal “toothpick” was that rare. It dropped for me twice in 10 minutes while making my way to Renalla using the shortcut. Would have rather won the lottery but I guess this is cool too.

[@Boxghost574]

Same, I got it randomly and its just sitting in my inventory now.

[@Jamyantis]

For Envoy's Greathorn, Assasin's Gambit ash of war helps a ton. It lets you run around the tree without getting targeted by all the bubble boys. You can get to the closest Big Boy in about 20 seconds if you run, using two casts of AG.

[@nannerfrog]

yes! thats exactly how I got mine lol

[@Nightmare-pj4fg]

I just personally drank the Crimsonwhorl tear after running up the ladder from the second site of grace in the area, and then ran up to the one that shoots stuff down at you, and from that path you get access to 2 without having to deal with any of the ants and shit.

[@TheRadioactiveMaster]

or the black knife set

[@AutistiCat2406]

​@@TheRadioactiveMaster black knife chest only silences footsteps there is no other effect of the pieces, unlike AG which provides hidden body effect too And crouching makes it where your footsteps are effectively silenced regardless so black knife armor is terrible

[@Deicide777]

WHAT HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THIS

[@agnacore]

I think one of the most overlooked rare drops has to be the Iron Greatsword. Despite being a basic sword on paper (and in practice), it exclusively drops from Leonine Misbegotten outside of boss fights. This means your only chances are the side exit of Leyndell (so unavailable in endgame) and the couple on the Haligtree.

[@supersbbrawl4ever]

Yep, NEVER going near the Haligtree ones lmfao.

[@ethanbethan6151]

In my first playthrough I got the noble toothpickreally quickly in Liurnia. When I started a new game I knew it wouldn’t be that easy, but I got it even earlier on in Limgrave. You don’t choose the toothpick. It chooses you.

[@dakotagreenwell1796]

I got it and sold it because I didn’t know it was that rare

[@marranin007]

@@dakotagreenwell1796 It does sell for more though, like 500 compared to 100

[@sangumlinggi8330]

My younger brother playing as an intelligence nerd got the toothpick in his first few hours in limgrave. So its mostly bullshit because he was playing prisoner.

[@harithsahaje8157]

It's weird though when we farm for something we will probably spend hours of dedication and patience but when we not even need it even the rarest thing can be easily obtained in early game.

[@eardrum42]

It *feels* that way. Same as irl

[@Zaque-TV]

Yup lmao. You find something only when you aren't looking for it.

[@IrrelevantOaf]

Farming for the Cleanrot set and the Executioner Axe on my first playthrough was annoyingly long lol.

[@Arcessitor]

Did you have a stroke

[@TheBizzerker]

Yeah, I got my first Grossmesser as a random drop when I'd barely encountered any skeletons. Second one took a ton of kills trying to farm. For the Noble sword, I've gotten two in ~140 hours playing without any actual attempt to farm them. I think the real trick is to not let the game know you want something. Once it knows it will refuse to give it to you.

[@finncarstensen4154]

Bro what I got that sword within 40 hours 😮 0:04

[@mancheifer]

I got it first try. I ran by and the mf handed me the sword personally

[@captainozannus6090]

I actually got Noble's Estoc during my first playthough. I was excited to see the golden color of it and thought it was going to be a strong weapon. After seeing the stats, I never even equied it LOL

[@Roonayy]

I'm on my first playthrough and I have 2 of them. Didn't know they were all that rare.

[@russellfisher1303]

I got one too. 😊

[@EthanRadell]

I was hoping it was gonna be a balder side sword type deal :(

[@sf4603]

Its the noble's slender sword people tend to be after not the estoc. Its the longest straight sword in the game, scales well with the faith and intelligence based infusions, has a 110 crit multiplier, has relatively low strength requirements for a straight sword (8) in exchange for slightly higher dex (11), and has the straight sword moveset that i believe most would agree is pretty simple and effective for pve. This makes it a solid choice for casters who dont have a lot of points to invest in str or dex. The astrologer can equip this weapon with their starting stats, unfortunately the prophet is one point shy of the dex requirements so they would maybe opt for something else. Really though this sword with a staff in the off hand is my favourite way to play astrologer.

[@Ecliptor.]

yeah I can back up what SF said, the noble slender sword is the best infusable straight sword for dex, not only that but the range is huge, it's almost like a greatsword with a straight sword moveset haha. If you're a pc chad, you can just turn off anticheat and give yourself a couple with cheat engine, then pretend it dropped.

[@CowboySkeetbop]

Was expecting this video to be a bit longer, getting the end actually surprised me

[@PsclarFraac]

One of the first stone imps I ever fought dropped the imp head mask...I had no idea it was so rare!!

[@jimjimson6208]

same, I got it in the tomb in limgrave near the church with the merchant guy

[@SolaScientia]

Same. I got mine in the catacombs to the west of Stormveil fairly early and I've been wearing it since. I didn't know until later that it's a very rare drop. I've worn it for so long that I have to take it off occasionally to remember what my character looks like.

[@mateoostorero2223]

I got it first time on 2 savefiles and i'm not kidding

[@webbowser8834]

I got the imp wolf head fairly early in my run and wore it for nearly the entire run because it looked cool and gave me endurance.

[@aarthur1996]

How funny, I find this video after finishing a "100%" save on which i've managed to collect almost every single item you can get on ng. Reminded me of the Darkmoon blade farming in DS3, or farming falconers in DS2 for sunlight medals. I love this mechanic because it is like a little secret that 90% of the players will just never interact with, but still adds something to discover for the completionists who want to know 100% of these games.

[@augustday9483]

I had no idea that the Envoy's Great Horn was a rare drop. Got mine on the third enemy I killed in that zone. 🙂

[@barelofmonkeyss5019]

Same! I got it the first time i killed the enemy weilding the greathorn, the first time i even encountered it. I figured it was a scripted drop

[@calub_wendex1233]

Me too and same thing with the imp mask. I needed it for a build I wanted to try and got it halfway through the dungeon I was in

[@Skrulzie]

One playthrough I managed to get every envoy weapon pretty easily. Next time I could never get any of them. Lmao

[@elijahmontgomery4146]

The Nobles Slender Sword is actually a great weapon in pvp. It has the longest reach of any straight sword, making it similar in play to the Lothric Knight sword of DS3. And while the AR isn’t as good, the reach on poke attacks make up for it in a game full of spears, halberds, great swords, and katakana’s.

[@AutistiCat2406]

Classic pvp player prioritizing range over damage It's not the longest, the longest is carian knight sword If you're using straight sword the longsword is worth it tbh, you don't need the range when you're just jump attack spamming half the time with dual straights anyway

[@BalianBlue_]

​@@AutistiCat2406 the noble slender sword is in fact the longest straight sword. As for saying not needing range, you really don't get how higher level pvp works if you think just jump attacking is it.

[@christiancividino455]

I almost sold it until I looked it up and found out rare it is

[@kekmitkeks9328]

I'm just gonna say, wanting to dual wield every weapon in the game was my first mistakr, actually farming them was my downfall

[@Ronam0451]

Yeah I didn't understand a single word you said

[@Holyphantom]

Not understanding basic math is a weird flex

[@NorincoKid80]

@Holyphantom thats..........not basic math

[@MrFreakman0]

@@Ronam0451 thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion, mister Ronam0451

[@primeirrational]

@@NorincoKid80yes it is. Only the four basic methods of calculationn are included.

[@daddysnfoor]

Average magic user's iq:

[@snipercomrade3059]

I think one of the hardest to get is the monk's flameblade. To my knowledge, for some reason the blackflame monks don't drop it even though they wield it regularly. There is one regular fire monk that wields it and he's in the giant conquering hero's grave.

[@raijinoflimgrave8708]

Yep just the one and he's a decent little run from the grace too. Further than the Envoys greathorn run

[@DemonLordSparda]

​@@raijinoflimgrave8708 Further run, but far safer

[@stephentoliver8310]

There's also the on at the bottom of Calid tower before the godskin.

[@DemonLordSparda]

@@stephentoliver8310 It's a Blackflame Monk, so for some reason it doesn't drop it.

[@raijinoflimgrave8708]

@@stephentoliver8310 I don't think that one drops it.

[@DavidFlrczk]

Honestly, I love the toothpick's esthetic, I'm glad I took the time to farm it. As for the envoys great horn, after a few runs, it feels good to be able to clear this part of the game without trouble

[@агенто]

bro remember unaltared banished knight armor - i bet that's hardest item to get only because of there's only 2 enemies dropping it

[@Altrop]

There's one you can shoot with a bow from a grace and he will teleport to you. EZ farming.

[@moanasandford4029]

In summary, don't level up arcane to have more drops but for other reasons like damage scaling or status effects like bleed. The discovery bonus is just a very small one.

[@ChangedCauseYT-HateFoxNames]

I read the title and thought. "OMG IT IS FOR MORE THEN BLEED?" Yes I'm joking but seriously, it's depressing how common bleed is everywhere.

[@ReaverTheSurvivalist]

It’s bad but at least it’s not Transient Moonlight.

[@gaming.beinhauer.otakar3878]

Ok, I am at 2:50 when does the "misunderstood" part of this mechanic come?

[@supremelemon6934]

I got everything. It wasn't that bad and swapping to an Arcane build did expedite the process. Would be nice if the video explain the % increase in drops with the bits of discovery that you get. .5% is 1 in 200, 1% is 1 in 100, 2% is 1 in 50.

[@zeronime284]

With 324 discovery you can get any item you want in 20-50 attempts even if the item in question has 0.5%-2% base drop rate. It only took less than 1 hour to get any desired item.

[@theprodigalson4003]

1:37 BRO sekiro is way more my speed this game is MATH. Math for an extra 2 moves available in a weapon you don’t like and can’t wield because of STATS

[@antonkazda]

In DS series, there were items and set pieces, that helped. In DS3, it was around 550, that gave you around 5% drop rate.

[@Fonix.5]

Never thought about any of this before actually, bc I have multiple of every obtainable in game item. I usually just give away items and runes now. So I guess you could say I increase drop chance to 100% on everything.

[@griglog]

To make the formula simplier, let's make the following assumptions: 0) Everything in this video and on the wiki page is true (the most questionable one). 1) The total weight is always 1000. 2) Rounding never happens. With them we can define our initial chances of getting an item as c1 = w/1000 (w is a weight of an item). The chance after getting our drop rates (d, from 1 to 3.24 or whatever is possible in the game) is c2 = wd/(1000 + w(d-1)). 1/c2 = (1000 + wd - w)/wd = 1000/wd + 1 - 1/d = 1 + 1/(d*c1) + 1/d = 1 + 1/d * (1/c1 - 1). Now let's define the average amount of attempts until getting an item as n1 = 1/c1 and n2 = 1/c2. We get n2 = 1 + (n1 - 1)/d. And it finally makes sense: you will always have to make more than one attempt (chance never goes above 100%), and the amound of attempts beyond 1 is divided by the drop rate stat. You can also interpret it as a direct decrease of failures before getting the first drop. When n1 is high (c1 is low), n2 ≈ n1/d.

[@SpookiYuki42]

I got the great envoys horn on my third attempt down the haligtree, which I had only gotten too like 20 min prior. I feel very lucky now after having watched this video and seeing how rare it is lol

[@zelda12346]

I mean, it IS simple. Discovery is a (approximate) odd-ratio multiplier. 100 discovery doesn't change your odds. 200 discovery doubles your odds. 324 discovery increases your odds by 224%. The problem is that people conflate odds with chances when they absolutely are not. 0.5% drop is 1:199. You should expect to get 1 drop for every 199 failures. 200 discovery changes it to 2 drops for every 199 failures. The reason this is approximate is because the odds ratios are forced to be in reference to 1000 and integers only. So 0.5% literally translates to 5:995 odds. 200 discovery would change it to 10:995. However, 150 discovery would change it only to 7:995 instead of 7.5:995 because we can only use whole numbers. If you delve into the formula, it gets more interesting imo. The roll is out of 1000, so we're working with 1000s for those extra sweet sigfigs. BY THE WAY, Japan counts numbers by groups of 4 0's, not 3. Their numbers use the same format as ours, but they have a unit for 10,000 whereas we do not. Hence, they use 'man' in the same way as we use 'thousands' as a capstone number for something large. Hence, the fact FromSoft is using 1000 instead of 10000 means they use western numbers! anyway -P*10 changes "percent" to "permille" since we're using 1000s -D/100 just changes discovery into its multiplier -w*100 just changes the percent from a (proper) decimal version to its casual percentage version -w-P*10 is literally just extracting that bonus due to discovery > 100 so that the formula doesn't double count -Due to how we've made everything in reference to 1000, the 1000 in the formula actually is the sum of the odds of success and failure. This number would change under normal circumstances, but because the formula forces everything in terms of 1000, it can be hard coded as a magic number (it probably isn't, but it's coded as a static value, so it never changes as far as we're concerned) It's also set up in the elegant 'off-set Direct Ratio' method for scaling decimal multipliers. It's not supposed to be considered with marginal gains via the formula directly but via its reciprocal. The result actually does have linear gains with no asymptote. But the result should be interpreted as "you get to wait x% longer before you roll a dud." 110 discovery would increase the time it takes to get a dud by 10%

[@hellxapo5740]

Even still, most of crafting is normally out of question because lots of items like arteria leaf, string, trina lily are so rare...

[@jacobmarley2417]

ur joking…

[@PsycheTrance65]

what almost everytime i give in to curiosity to pick up an item surrounded by enemies its a freakin' arteria leaf

[@WeLoveToEntertain100]

Well, just go to Jarburg

[@wahidtrynaheghugh260]

There’s more stuff you can wear to increase discovery, anything that increases arcane, and the full kit is a huge buff Silver tear mask: +8 arcane Marika’s soreseal: +5 arc Outer god heirloom: +5 arc Silver scarab Silver horn tender is a consumable but is 10 points better than the silver fowl foot

[@FallenAngel-nt5iu]

I just noticed the armor in the thumbnail and i realised it's actually a set in the dlc now! Coincidence?

[@dustinmcclung4497]

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE! Silver tear mask increases your arcane by 8, and you can further it by another 5 with godrick's rune.

[@are3287]

Not beyond 99 tho

[@churchether]

Anyone who has been through DS 3 Vertebrae shackle farming after the servers were down on pc, know that the elden ring farming is a charm compared.

[@ammarelle]

@Kari Legion Dont even mention proof of concord kept here... PTSD right there.

[@Lickicker]

I do like they added more to the luck stat and made the already existing functions alot more useful. I usually didnt bother with luck in the previous games until my main stats were softcapped because lets be honest in previous games status effects sucked ass. Its also nice to have a few spells that scale with luck and have a luck requirement

[@akostraakostra33]

İ wish you said what is the chance to get an 0.5% item with 324 discovery

[@Leviathannohit]

It's 1.58%

[@akostraakostra33]

@@Leviathannohit thank you

[@xXtHeUnDeAd1Xx]

1.60%

[@Yukiloop]

I didn't even know the golden weapons are rare.. They've been rotting in my inventory for a while now.

[@axolotlbob8338]

You forgot the marais mask in the buffs

[@krakenmahboy]

*says "farm envoy's greathorn"* *war flashbacks ensue*

[@CurvyKirby2.-]

I specifically farmed out every weapon before ng+, took a few weeks of casual grinding but it definitely wasn't awful

[@Garryl367]

The Discovery formula is roughly equivalent to treating drop rates not as a raw percentage, but as a weighted chance, then multiplying the successful drop's weight by the Discovery percentage. For example, the 0.5% drop rate is equivalent to 5 weight for a successful drop and 995 weight for no item to drop. For example, a 200 Discovery value is a 200% multiplier to the successful drop weight, bringing it to 10 and giving a 10 / (10 + 995) or ~0.00995% drop rate. The floor part of the formula is just rounding down so that, treating the total weight at 100 Discovery as 1000 (sum of successful drop and no drop weights), you don't ever add a fraction of point of drop weight, only whole numbers.

[@whoopas312]

Someone finally covered discovery thank you

[@boazburger3846]

btw for anyone struggling to farm envoys greathorn; near the haligtree town grace, up the ladder is one of those f*ckers behind you on the tree (the one that's bombarding you with his holy balls as you try to get to the haligtree town grace), and with spells with an arc like cannon of haima you can hit him without him being able to hit you.

[@Donutcobra27]

I managed to get noble slender sword in both my only 2 play throughs without farming at all

[@zZiL341yRj736]

It's for selling and not using, 1000 runes.

[@icebox1954]

@@zZiL341yRj736 Blasphemy. The coolest looking straight sword by far. Throw on a golden armor set and you've got a great look.

[@tigokok5774]

As someone that farmed the Envoy Greathorn I have to say that the route to the secluded big guy is actually pretty decent once you get the hang of it. And I love the great horn attack so 100% worth it

[@devinchadwick9147]

Started a faith build a week ago and was considering getting the slender sword because of the scaling, but changed my mind when I saw the drop rate lol. It seems like that and the (un-altered, with cape) banished knight armor that are absolute pains to farm for. Idk why From doesn't just put these items in the world somewhere.

[@AVCD44]

From Bernoulli, with 0.5% chance of drop, if you have N tries then the chance of not getting it is (1-0.5%)^N. Hence the chance of getting it is 1-(1-0.5%)^N. With 200 tries (1/200=0.5%) you achieve >63%. True for over values: 1-(1-P)^(1/P)>63%. For example with 0.1 (10%), you multiply 0.1 by 10 to get 1 (100%), and so with 10 tries you have > 63%.

[@dizzydglizzy8546]

I found it interesting how ln my first playthrough I found that toothpick thing after killing one of those guys by accident, I was only about 7 hours into the game and I sold it right after I got it

[@spider-hamnoir7311]

My grandad played the game for all of 3 hours and got the nobles slender sword on his first playthrough, it was literally one of his first items

[@jacobmarley2417]

nothing misunderstood about this mechanic . I wish there was an opposite of subscribing so i could block this channel

[@galaxy6251]

People should also understand that the main point of the arcan attribute isnt the item discovery. The item discovery is mainly a side effect of the attribute and not the main thing abiut it. Its the same way you dont level up dex souly because it dismounts your horse faster or leveling int because it increases your magic defense. They are just side effects. The main reason you ahould upgrade arcane is if you intend to use status effects like bleed and poison as a key part of your build, as well as using some certain spells that can be used through dragon communion seal

[@Beep325]

For a three minute video, theres a lot of information packed into it, good job, great video.

[@Foobin_Lera]

You don't even know how mad I was dude. I had like 6 of these swords, read "can be sold for a good sum" , and cried when I found out they were rare after I sold all of them

[@gravethebeyond]

Arcane like the best stat. It does 5 things. Increases rune drop rate per kill. Increases damage of Dragon spells. Increases item discovery rate. And lastly increase your Defence against Scarlet rot and poison. Its a very good.

[@Le_Fabz26]

I've been farming for every armor (basic and altered), spells, incantation, cookbook, talisman and weapons TWICE for the dual wield and I can confirm that farming 2 Envoy's greathorn was the worst farming session in all of my gaming experience (I was using the silver scarab talisman with the silver tear mask and around 40 arcane)

[@octoberbloodpodcast]

Envoy great horn actually drops quite easy and is 5 seconds from a grace in the royal city. Took 10 minutes to get one without any buffs, go for the big long horn and it absolutely smashes the fire giant boss.

[@kennethM]

The "rare toothpick" was one of my first item drops. I didn't know it was rare but I've been using it for my whole playthrough

[@henryhere]

A few play sessions ago i got an imp head, a nobles straightsword, and old aristocrat shoes, all with no grinding and no good stats except strength, endurance and vigor. It was literally just dumb luck, and i wasn't actively trying to get any of the items, i just got them from random passing enemies.

[@Hoigwai]

I have the toothpick. I farmed the first caravan across the bridge from the starting point. I killed it completely 25x. I got the Slender sword 1x and the Estoc 2x. It didn't feel that bad to do. I sped up the farm time a lot by using the grace next to Sellen. It took me much longer to farm the Banished Knight chest from Castle Sol.

[@thedarkneon4447]

0:10 I got one of these on my first few hours of gameplay when trying to get that one axe carried by the titans and then I sold it afterwards cuz I didn't like it that much... I regret that...

[@richfray5181]

Royal Toothpick so rare, not even listed in the ER Fextralife wiki. Makes you wonder how many other items might be possible

[@Gandhi_Physique]

Are you making a joke?

[@ultravioletdream102]

Rarest in fromsoft vocabulary is: getting your first copy of a rare item after 2 hours farming with 280 discovery and after some days getting your second copy by passing randomly killing the enemy and for some reason dropping the item with 110 discovery.

[@griffin955]

Essentially Discovery chance doesn't scale linearly, just very close to linearly. 0.5% chance of a drop at 100 discovery isn't 1% chance at 200 discovery, it's something like 0.995%. So since the chance improvement of discovery gets worse as you increase it, it's likely to be around 200-250 discovery where you may start actually seeing an improvement to rare items being dropped, provided you're killing a lot of enemies with rare drops.

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

I find the best way to find items is to not want them. I tried doing a powerstance bandit curved sword build and I kept killing this one skeleton on Weeping Peninsula but it wouldn’t drop. In frustration I decided to load my previous two characters, STR build and INT build. Yep, they both had two bandits curved swords in storage despite me never farming it. (I always keep at least one copy of every weapon, two for potential powerstancers). I wish this game had a shared stash!

[@buny1881]

Its mind boggling that i got 2 of them on my first playthrough without even knowing how rare these swords are.

[@nebky]

0:14 1:10 The Celebrant's Skull isn't a drop, it's found along the western cliff of Dominula.

[@DekkarJr]

The stats in Elden Ring and the souls like games in general have always been wildly confusing to me

[@MidnightDrake]

From what i can tell, the max item discovery is actually 330. The Silver Tear mask (You get it from mimic tear) nets you 16 extra discovery. or maybe it increses arcane... That'd.. Hm.. Didnt think of that..

[@zacharoninoodle]

So… 200 discovery makes the drop rate of .5% into 1%. 300 makes it 1.5%. And so on. This is what I figured from the start. Look at discovery as a percentage that affects the drop rate for items. So 101% increases .5% by 1/100th, which would be .501%. But 200 discovery turns that .5% into 1% because the original drop rate is being doubled. 200 discovery basically can read as “x2”, 250 as “x2.5”, and so on.

[@aeriles3845]

Royal Toothpick took me like 8h, at 187 discovery (12 Arcane + Silver Scarab), whilefarming from the convoy next to the Waypoint Ruins with the -Albinauric Destroyer 3000- Sacred Relic Sword...

[@BankruptGreek]

I wish every game implemented a farm detection mechanic where each drop becomes more likely the more you fail to get it in a short span of time. Balanced in a way that playing through the game normally makes hardly any difference but farming anything takes less than half an hour to accomplish. An other way would be increasing discovery by 2 instead of one or even better start off with +20 and +10 and gradually decrease to +2 ending up with 300-400 discovery at 99, which isn't easy to accomplish and should feel as big as 99 strength or dexterity, early points being +20 and +10 sound viable to spec into early on like other stats do.

[@JacketAndTie]

So misunderstood you didn't even give a quantitative example of how much arcane modifies drop rates. Thanks

[@rainofkittens]

Envoys greathorn, what a pain. Was nice and farmed that for a community duper. Decided to take advantage of my 99 arcane Dragon Communion build. Super nice guy, goes out of his way for hours several times a week, to dupe items and runes for players so they can get the build they want early on or whatever. Took me 45min to get proficient enough at farming that horn to not blatantly get knocked off the roots or killed. Took a total of 1.5 hours to get that horn, and 2.5 hours to get a minimum of 2 of each horn so I had a set for myself xD

[@mr.e2643]

To my understanding discovery effects only if something drops not the rng roll on WHAT drops, so boosting for rares is effectively useless beyond mimic head and silver talisman, no need to respec arc for farming

[@MeinCouch123]

Honestly, the item drop chance is one of my biggest problems with this game, considering the map is so gigantic. They easily could have placed some of these items through out the world, instead of only behind rare drop chance. It would have been nice to stumble upon random pieces of armor or weapons instead of Arteria Leaf or Starlight Sharts for the 94788749th time.

[@StrunDoNhor]

Remember when Bloodborne let you _buy_ its weapons & armor sets, but required you to find key items to do so? Elden Ring could definitely do with a system like that. I'm fine with the Somber weapons being one-offs, but I don't see why you can't theoretically have unlimited copies of non-Somber weapons (even the "unique" ones like Serpentbone Blade or Crystal Knife). Even then, giving us _one_ copy of each Somber weapon, just for build experimentation, couldn't hurt. Same goes for armor, though that's mainly for fashion reasons.

[@satouajin1429]

Imagine dragging on a simple answer for 3 minutes, and still leaving without providing the simple answer.

[@awoodenkiwitoy6293]

Farm an envoys great horn? Try farming a full stack of magic golem arrows, from the enemies with thousands of points of HP, are a jaunt away from any grace, drop 5 of them at a time, and have a higher chance of dropping regular, unexceptional great arrows. Cheat engine is a necessity in this game.

[@StarFallTube]

Farmed the great horn myself. took countless hours over several days before I finally got one. I just ran on autopilot with youtube on my second monitor to keep me sane. This was on NG+3 and those bubbleboys hurt...

[@nitroheadgaming1628]

I know this is a month old but there are other items that help boost discovery like Marikas Scarseal/Soreseal and the silver tear helmet (and some other helmets help but I think the silver tear is the highest one)

[@fupaslay1]

They won’t increase your discovery if you have 99 arcane since you can’t increase your arcane any further

[@cjmars822]

For those that don’t understand asymptotes, they work like this. An asymptote is a number in some equations where the answer becomes undefined. I this case, the asymptote is 100. For every point put into discovery, you come closer to 100 but mathematically you can never reach 100. Probably because 100 discovery would break the game. Have any genius level programmers manually entered a 100% discovery just to see what happens? I’m curious

[@xbacky]

i swear to god i got that sword on my second try and didn't know its the rarest item untill now..💀

[@shadowlife15]

I've actually been farming for every weapon in the game and i'm nearly done. The envoy's greathorn wasn't the worst, it was actually the noble's slender sword. The envoy was far more annoying to farm as you mentioned, but it took 131 runs to get the sword. ironically, Doing the wolf of farron and concord kept farms in ds3 together took more total farming time than all of the low drop rate weapons in elden ring have taken so far, and I only have staffs and seals left. 324 discovery does help a ton. of course I still have spells to get left after, and I might do shields as well. Edit: I forgot about the celebrant's weapons actually, those were the worst by far. Guess I blocked those out of my memory after I got them.

[@thewielder3445]

Just started a dual rapier build and got a Nobles Estoc out of pure chance. I was today years old when I found out I was wielding one of the rarest weapons in the game

[@berntz]

The one item I grinded for was a flower crown that could be altered. Took me 2hrs. And that's because I reset my levels and put all my points into arcane and ate a silver foot. Got it after 2 town clears.

[@ArcaneAzmadi]

I have scary good luck with getting rare weapon drops from enemies, to the point where I often assume they're supposed to be a guaranteed drop. I got the Chain Link Flail from the Lesser Mad Pumpkin Head outside Fort Haight on the first (and only) time I killed it, the Longhaft Axe from the Misbegotten in the tower the first time I killed him, 2 Pickaxes from various miners, the Guardian Swordspear from one of the first Guardians I ever killed around the Lesser Erdtree on the Weeping Peninsula, a Crescent Moon Axe in Stormveil Castle, got the Warhawk's Talon fairly easily too, and all this with just my starting 11 Arcane. I have wacky luck.

[@TheOne-9561]

It's funny because on my first playthrough I got it from the first guy who had it and had no idea how rare it was. Still went through with the bloodhounds fang until finishing the game though :)

[@orion1644]

I farmed 3 envoy‘s greathorns in about an hour. It‘s really not that hard if you stop trying to battle it in hand to hand combat. Just pull out your jar cannon and spam that mf from litterally 10 steps from the first haligtree grace. Took around 3 lightning great bolts (ammunition for jar cannon) to kill it. Keep in mind, the guy shoots back at you so be prepared to dodge when the bubble arrives at your branch so you don’t fall off. With the zoom from the cannon you easily see if the dropped item has a purple glow or not. If not, go back to grace and try again. If it actually dropped, go get it and be extra careful with the ants. You really don‘t want to die if you know the drop is waiting there for you to pick it up. I actually died once on my way to get it so I could‘ve gotten 4 of them instead of just 3. (the reason why I farmed more than 2 is that I wanted to give one to a friend as well)

[@besnos7506]

As someone who grinded out to get every item in the game the most hellish time I had was with the nobles estoc, I grinded for many hours with multiple methods and finally on my 8th session on my 3rd spot I got it. The celebrants come close but the grind there was so long because of the amount of items they could dropped.

[@SolaScientia]

I got the stone cat head helm in the catacombs just to the west of Stormveil. I can't remember if an imp dropped it or if it came from the boss, but I remember being very happy to find it. I didn't find out until much later that apparently it's a very rare drop. I've been wearing it since I found it, because it has better stats than any of the other helms/headgear I have and I can adjust what else I wear so I'm not fat rolling all over. I've worn it for so long that I have to occasionally remove it just to remember what my character actually looks like, lol. I think there might be some soldier/knight helms that provide higher physical protection, but it's a FromSoftware game, so most of it doesn't make much difference unless someone is really into min/maxing. I mostly just go with what I like and that stone cat helm does give very high protection against most of the magic related damages, and I'd prefer that over physical protection any day.

[@xxvanikkaxx]

Got NSL at level 30-something and picked it up not knowing what it was; almost deleted it but ultimately just threw it into storage. It’s a fully upgraded main weapon now lol