Lex Fridman argues with Michael Malice about whether most people can think on their own

[@dr69dav]

The last 2 years have put me on Michael's side of this argument.

[@JustTayo]

Pretty Realistic and not “seeing people how he wants to see them”

[@MrAhuraMazda]

How so?? Toilet paper hoarding? Or rioting? Or power outages? Anarchy is as horrible idea as Communism and would end in bands of gangs running the show

[@dr69dav]

@@MrAhuraMazda the argument is about whether most people can think on their own. That is what i am on his side about, as that is what the video is about.

[@matthewobrien5925]

@@dr69dav Yeah I'm basically in agreement with both of you as well. It's as if we're being forced to re-learn the most basic lessons over & over again because people are either ignoring or ignorant of even the most recently gained wisdom

[@CompPerformanceFreak]

I agree.

[@kadeemk4679]

Hahahahaha Michael basically arguing most people are NPCs.

[@kutark]

I mean I agree with him, and frankly the evidence is strongly in his favor.

[@machinesandthings7121]

Yep

[@kadeemk4679]

@@kutark haha agreed! I'm actually shocked at Lex for his standpoint. He needs to be reminded of or learn about psychological studies like the Stanford Prison experiment or the Milgram experiment. Theyre both fascinating when it comes to human obedience.

[@kutark]

@@kadeemk4679 well to be fair the Stanford prison experiment was conducted horribly in a ridiculously unscientific process so we can't really draw any meaningful conclusions from it. But yes, I think he is being not naive but purposefully hopeful despite what is likely reality

[@pdcdesign9632]

NPC? Is that similar to OPP?

[@botz77]

"Deaf, and blind, and dumb. And born to follow. What you need is someone strong to guide you. Like me." - Tool

[@Fenriz1222]

Damn haven’t heard that one in years..Thanks

[@kiboinderitu8431]

What's the song name?

[@Fenriz1222]

@@kiboinderitu8431 Opiate

[@kiboinderitu8431]

@@Fenriz1222 thanks.

[@Fenriz1222]

@@kiboinderitu8431 No problem...The album is called Opiate as well..Its tools first studio album..Less technical than subsequent albums but lyrically I think it is one of their better ones.

[@garykim313]

I really like Michael Malice because of the relevance in what was being discussed. Here is the point of disagreement. Michael says that not everyone has the capacity. Lex says, everyone has it. So Michael asks, well we agreed that everyone has the chance to do it, so why aren't people doing it? Lex replies that it's because while the opportunity to do those acts of heroism are there, people aren't aware of them. I personally think that awareness is part of one's capacity. Do you know how capable an average human being is? But because we aren't aware of our true potential and the seemingly limitless capacity, we stay mediocre.

[@MichaelPetrakis]

Which begs the questions, Is ones potential, and Capacity, fluctuating, or static? Does the Courageous act of one, nullify the Courageous act of another, simply because one seems more Courageous than the next? Is it not Courageous just to not commit suicide, and give up, or even, to commit suicide? So, who has not experienced Courage? Does it take courage to not punch someone in the face for disrespecting you? Does it take courage to call someone out for disrespecting you? Does it take courage to stay silent, and equaninous, and compassionate, in the face of disrespect?

[@robertpirsig5011]

@@MichaelPetrakis I'm not sure I follow your framing duality of what constitutes a courageous act. It is highly subjective and based on what is the right thing to do for your circumstances. Take the person disrespecting you. Clearly the right and courageous thing to do is speak up and defend yourself. Sure you can stay quiet, but the issue will still persist in future and the same question will raise again. The suicide case is obviously more ambiguous. Perhaps you have talked yourself out of it as you see there is plenty to live for. Then of course it is the courageous act. Similarly a person who has the option of suicide when faced with a more painful death would be courageous to take it on their own terms. It all depends on the persons circumstances.

[@Rocket9944]

Lex wants to see good in every one, but I must agree with Malice on this one.

[@derekaarts4997]

I agree, having the capacity for something and actually following through and doing it are 2 very different things.

[@ahd200]

I usually agree with almost everything Lex says. But here I’m 100% with Michael

[@Dominus-Noctis]

Michael is right some people are not capable. Period. Interact with these people and you will understand.

[@TheVenusBoy]

I wouldn’t say they cant think for their own. They just have no interest in philosophy.

[@billywilson2912]

@@TheVenusBoy Perhaps your right, Is it an IQ thing?

[@Fiscotte]

Oh yeah... And the people denying it probably are on the npc spectrum as well

[@Enfield14]

@@billywilson2912i think it has to be you could explain in the simplest terms and still get a negative response

[@shannonlove4328]

“Everybody is ignorant, just about different things.” - Roy Rogers Everybody, even geniuses, have one area of life wherein they can think dynamically and creatively but are banal and unimaginative in the rest. E.g. You wouldn’t put your average genius computer programmer in charge of a line of fashion. Saying “most” people can’t think usually translates to “People don’t have the same intellectual priorities as me.”

[@reynam2576]

Very true.

[@junovhs4646]

Man I think if you met my uncle you might change your mind lol

[@JamesBrown-wy7xs]

^ This...

[@Shannendetro]

JunoVHS would you elaborate?

[@CONEHEADDK]

Ha haa - I love, that I just wrote "the same" as this famous guy.. Now I deserve to be famous too....

[@tomcoop9750]

“Before a scientist observes something he must first learn to observe himself.” - A Skeptic’s Guide to the Mind

[@JamesBrown-wy7xs]

I don't agree with that. I'd say in order to observe "SOMEONE ELSE" (as in, another person) with little or no "filter" (delusion), one should first be adequately acquainted with their own thinking/habits/quirks/fears/avoidances/weaknesses/etc, and particularly their habits of "projection" (in the psychological sense of the word). However, there are many things that even 999 in 1,000 deluded individuals can agree to having witnessed in the objective world - the world of measuring/ relating speed and angles and colors, etc.

[@dougschimpf8733]

Lol you just said exactly what the quote summed up in one sentence

[@JamesBrown-wy7xs]

@@dougschimpf8733 No I didn't. I said that you must observe yourself to observe SOMEONE, not SOMETHING (the "objective world" is "something").

[@dougschimpf8733]

Same bullshit

[@thedeeptrees]

Observing the movement of thought. The "i" divides and conforms itself from the whole of knowledge/memory, are you aware of this movement?

[@phil_fr6732]

Reminds me of this scene in Divergent where everyone is mind-controlled except for the very few different minded people : they recognise each other because everyone else's eyes are dead, but they shut the hell up because they are the minority, under surveillance, and clearly at risk if discovered.

[@themercs23]

1984 summed up. Except when your different minded you get tortured to go back into the thinking mind like everyone else

[@sbain844]

I tend to agree with Lex, but I'd suggest that people are more or less willing to be that guy who does the right thing at different points in their lives. We are all assholes for long periods of time, but at other times we are capable of much more. I do agree, however, that a significant number of people are exactly as Michael describes.

[@kx65andyx85rider]

Cars passing another car broken down on the side of the road.

[@axline2328]

This part is incredible, gonna watch the full version.

[@JaymanNVK]

Just found Lex recently. I'm loving the channel

[@notabadcookie]

I'm with you, Lex. We have the capacity, especially if you think of life as a journey and not a destination. Just because today someone doesn't have that glimmer, doesn't mean they won't or are incapable of developing it later in life.

[@notabadcookie]

@@RockerfellerRothchild1776 I know of no one that does squat all the time. Some reasons why someone might be in a lull are depression, not being educated on potential resources available, no support network...that's just from what I've seen... Your comment shows a lack of imagination and possible contempt for the less fortunate, how sad.

[@BobWidlefish]

Not everyone grows up to be an astronaut. For some, fry cook is their limit. Humans are very diverse. They exist on many spectrums.

[@gaebitch3200]

@@BobWidlefishHonestly it’s just about whether people have the drive themselves to be different and whether they have the resources available to them. Do you really think people are truly so limited and if so I’d like to know why?

[@ElisaAlice-d8b]

Some people arent capable and your position much like Lex's is based in denial. Is a narcisst capable of love? Never. That example alone should be enough evidence to show that peolle dont have the same abilities. Lex is projecting his qualities, thinking anyone could be like him, and i understand, but its not true.

[@notabadcookie]

@@ElisaAlice-d8b you seem sad, I wish you well.

[@alejohernandez75]

"Freedom is a road seldom travelled by the multitude" Fredrick Douglas

[@user-wo5bp2oi5c]

Treat a man as he is and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he can and should be, and he will become as he can and should be. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[@markdeegan4113]

Whether they can or not, they don't

[@deplorablecovfefe9489]

I had 28 jobs in 48 yrs. I faught the establishment all my life and got worse over the years. Also most employers just want you going no where. They filled a job position and they want you at that spot forever.

[@maddaxy]

I live in a country in Asia starting with T and I'm sorry to say I agree with Michael.

[@pauliuskaskoks1153]

Is it Taekwondo?

[@CONEHEADDK]

Most people "barely have a clue about more than one or two things", and the rest are even worse...

[@rolandnelson6722]

I read the a Robert Caro series on LBJ twice. LBJ had one vital sight. Nobody thinks two steps ahead, ever. Most people don’t think one step ahead. LBJ took risks over and over again in his career that would be undone, sending him down a career snake, if anyone thought two steps ahead. Sometimes even just one step. Nobody ever did. LBJ knew from a nearly age this was always going to work.

[@towhee7472]

I love how high Lex thinks of the average human. He's wrong, unfortunately.

[@xedasxedas]

Not wrong. Hope. Whisfull thinking.

[@robertpirsig5011]

He's not wrong. I have a roughly average intellect and have completed a degree in mathematics. The tools I learned through my education have given given me heuristics to be able to think more effectively and deeply. Anyone can do this and improve constructive thinking. However society does not train people to think but trains for obedience.

[@MrRand0mGamer]

@@robertpirsig5011 I doubt you have a ''roughly average'' intellect and have completed a degree in mathematics, but if you have then you are a very rare rare individual with an insanely high level of conscientiousness and had no other priorities in your life outside of your degree. Even still it would be more doubtful you got a career within your field of study, which you seem to have not mentioned. With that aside though, you are completely wrong about your last claim. You can't even enlist in the armed forces with an IQ of 84 or below because there isn't anything you could do that wouldn't actually be counter-productive. The US military needs as many able bodied people as they can get, so it says a lot for them to reject otherwise good candidates based on this cut off IQ score, which is btw roughly 10% of the US population.

[@timestamp_livewebservices6503]

@@robertpirsig5011 i think youd be surprised how many people are born with some degree of fetal alcohol/drug system

[@JLuisCastaneda]

Yup, we should just let you and MM decide what’s good for everyone.

[@F--B]

The human race simply wouldn't work if 'everyone thought for themselves.' Most people are ballast, and necessarily so.

[@topspduk]

Idealist vs realist. We need both.

[@bigpapacoco]

How can you be an anarchist believe that? Anarchism requires people to self-organize and self-govern. How could anarchism ever work if you believe most people don’t have souls? That’s what every capitalist and authoritarian I’ve ever met believes: I deserve to be in my position of power because most people would waste their lives without strong leadership from a person who is somehow biologically or psychologically superior.

[@F--B]

I agree with Michael, but I also thought this

[@seavisions]

Being a anarchist does not rely on the structure of the society that surrounds a anarchist. One can be a anarchist in a communist country like America. Its is the anarchists behavior that makes him or her a anarchist.

[@nayrtnartsipacify]

Anarchism is not a monolith.

[@F--B]

@@nayrtnartsipacify anarchism is a fuzzy monolith

[@critter505]

A free market anarchist/capitalist doesn’t see themselves in a position of power at all. Your entire premise is completely flawed. Anarchism doesn’t necessitate perfect behavior in people, it just guarantees the chance to rise on your own. The state guarantees there definitely will be bad behavior by its own definition of being.

[@InvaderG]

the way i look at it you’re either an optimist or a cynic (pessimist). and you’re going to die without finding out which one is right in all likelihood. so which life do you want to live? which outlook will benefit the world and yourself? i choose optimism.

[@martinjohnson5498]

The book “Ordinary Men” about how normal Germans did terrible things…

[@terrencedaniels7482]

I think I've found the qualifier for being one of the few able to think on your own - just be someone who watched this video apparently. I see a lot of independent thinkers and leaders here in the comment section - self proclaimed of course. Too smart, too independent and too heroic for the world around them, seems like an awful burden.

[@ThePijarro]

Was thinking just this, awfully lot of presumptuous and arrogant folks here.

[@amiratlanta]

I have to agree with Michael on this one.

[@cole4pm318]

anyone know the videos that michael mentions? particularly interested in the victim meeting bully video

[@TanksForTheMemories]

the tadpole doesn't imagine a life with legs.

[@solitary200]

I tend to agree with Michael Malice

[@tigerstalons5118]

MM to me comes off as I want to disagree but yea your right . I like that kind of conversation,that’s where learning is esp if you don’t agree.

[@mookiecy]

This is a very important video.

[@smaragd_]

I'm with Malice here. It is shocking that someone like Lex still has so much trust in humans.

[@robertpirsig5011]

You can't honestly believe what you are saying. Everyday you participate in society you are having faith or thrust in other humans to do the right thing. We have become more and more cooperative throughout history. I don't understand the mistrusting argument at all.

[@STUMP_]

Everyone can and will think on their own. Some get complacent to not think on their own, because they don't want to do anything. Thinking for other people is stripping their freedom of self thought and telling them what's right and not.

[@fullmetalflix5195]

Generally speaking many of us do not operate on the same levels of conciousness. We are not equal in terms intelligence, intellect, whether through upbringing , genetics, or other factors. Many people will never see the light, or any shade on the spectrum for that matter. We may all be capable, but on average i could never see that happening. To say these people don't have souls is insulting innaccurate and highly dubios considering we have no common definiton.

[@themmacircle7645]

Funny how I agree with Michael Malice on so many things and he just repeats things I said to people in the past. A lot of these people have no souls.

[@geometerfpv2804]

Good for Lex. The idea that some humans are special “thinker” versions, and others aren’t is an elitist and ignorant idea. We all have incredible minds. The way we use them is influence by so many environmental factors. Studying those environmental factors is the interesting thing. We’ve all met people who can’t seem to deal with the simplest critical thinking in day-to-day life, but are expert thinkers when it comes to some “special interest” they have, like a certain kind of game they like, for example. The real question is: how is it that our society under-incentivizes critical thinking so much that few people do it? That gets you into the reality: there are people who make massive amounts of money with very little work by intentionally under-incentivizing critical thinking, and using large swaths of humanity as a money battery. To get angry at the so-called “dumb” humans is to completely miss this massive abuse of power.

[@ruzinus_]

I think what Malice is talking about here exists on a spectrum. In his guard example, I think very few people would do what that guy did. In a lot of other situations that were either less serious or with a more present authority figure judging the person, more people would do the wrong thing.

[@elenabob4953]

They can think from themselves but the pression of the group to conform it's huge, even if many people don't perceive it as a thing.

[@leninninel5652]

Does anyone know what show Malice was talking about , couldn't find it with the limited information

[@kaneogier7509]

This is definitely a conversation I'd like to hear Lex have again with Danny Kahneman

[@harrystapleton3896]

Does anyone know where I can find that scare tactics clip, or something about it?

[@thundercats5828]

I've met many people who appear to lack an inner monologue. Given that consciousness and self awareness are recent evolutions, there will be many who haven't made that transition. They are mostly instinctual.

[@brandonwootton5575]

I got kicked out of my ACT test a couple days ago because I refused to wear a mask. Regardless of if that was the right or wrong thing to do, I could have just complied which would have been easier, but instead I respectfully declined because I believe that the policy was morally wrong. It was pretty embarrassing and stressful for me. but I wish kids my age would do this, none of them want to stand up for their beliefs anymore

[@vademecor]

Lex is Alyosha Karamazov. The world needs him.

[@theraven6836]

Love Lex, it he’s wrong on this. Michael is spot-on.

[@nile7999]

nope, Michael has a self-indulgent, narcissistic take that he's special. It can 100% be taught, the neurons for heroism or the guard looking past the rules have to reach the action potential at least once, and then anything's possible. The guard tells them to go back because he's only trained to think of himself, of him not getting in trouble, of prisoners having a role and following that role. That guard can 100% be trained to think empathetically, to experience life as a prisoner or even the smallest example of a rule that he can overlook, which would help lead the way to him overlooking the bigger rule breaks. Don't mistake what happened in the past for what's possible. Even if you put that guard in a different environment, from the prison to the school yard where he has to impress girls, he will act different and potentially defiant

[@heidstertrades]

People don't want to see past their glass noses (egos), because they are afraid if they do they will break them. So, blinders are put up and reinforced until they are torn away for whatever reason. I can't see past the end of my glass nose - said no one with the problem/pretty much everyone. It takes a LOT to get past this problem. There is a lot more to this, but that is the nutshell version.

[@dr.bignuts3119]

I feel like this debate is kind of all over the place. Referring to someone who can THINK freely and to someone who can ACT freely is entirely different in, and of itself. Id say a minority of the population is capable of free thought, but an even tinier minority is capable of freely acting. Most people just want to conform (get a house, a family, a job, a dog, have hobbies, buy stuff, live a normal life, etc.). These people are not “incapable” of free thought just because of this.

[@fredlacroix6865]

short answer : NO .. humans are social being we need to be emotionally attached to each other and material things that surround us .. well except those that have unique experiences in their lives that they assimilate through introspection to make them unique from the crowd/masses

[@DavidHerscher]

I feel like Lex is being naively optimistic on this particular subject. A quick look around at what's happening in America right now is evidence that Michael is correct.

[@ammandotcom]

i agree but this thought came to my mind so let me know what you think. the west was built upon the principle to critically think , now it seems its going away but also look at our tv shows our movies our stories our culture its like we dont uphold the same ideals we used to ,thus making people not holding them. its like we all agreed to groupthink a few ideas and anyone who thinks otherwise is whatever word we choose they are. heres my question if we have a culture that upholds critical thinking and doing the right thing how many more people if any will do it? maybe a little more will or not at all because at the end of the day if u do something morally right but the majority is against you most will conform because most people would rather stick with the crowd besides for some rare ones .

[@jertdw3646]

Are we going to pretend the right wing don't have their own form of group think and cancel culture(civil rights, lgbtq hate etc). Tell me a time in the history of America where something akin to cancel culture wasn't a thing 🙄. Both sides do it/want to do it/will continue to try to do it. When are you guys gonna figure that out.

[@DavidHerscher]

@@jertdw3646 A couple of things I want to comment on here. First, since when are "right wing" people against civil rights? Who are these people who are supposed to hate lgbtq folks, or any other group based on characteristics like sexual orientation, religious identity, etc? One of the foundational pillars behind the current "right wing/anti woke" movement is individual liberty for everyone, without respect to immutable characteristics or personal identity. Now i can agree with you that both sides have been on the wrong end of many important issues. But i think the major concern I see most people attempting to address with the idea of "cancel culture" is the unarguably aggressive censorship, suppression of free speech, and fascistic actions of the current "regime". Big tech + big media + big government = BIG problem. It's ok to disagree on things, the democratic process hinges on our ability to disagree and argue it out in the public square. The idea being that eventually we arrive at the most mutually amicable answer. And that's how things have traditionally worked, thanks to the first ammendment. However, that has all very recently and very dramatically changed as the "left" has solidified their relationships with the institutions that control the flow of information. The natural progression of "left wing" politics towards it's historically proven home of marxism only helps to morally justify these actions in their minds. And as people begin to notice, and speak out, the need to increase the effort intensifies, and the the snowball grows... Just like we're witnessing, right now, in America.

[@DavidHerscher]

@@ammandotcom I don't agree that western culture is rooted in the idea of critical or even rational thought. I would argue that the foundational bedrock of western/american society is individual liberty. From that idea flows the constitutionally protected freedoms such as freedom of religion, speech, thought, etc that allow for the pursuit of scientific, philosophical and social understanding through the application of critical thinking, the scientific method, etc.

[@ohms497]

I always had an adversity towards authority and institutions. 😬

[@CONEHEADDK]

You're probably a dude....

[@CONEHEADDK]

@juan orejel Good one - because you have so much information about both of us, to make a qualified guess. I'm really sad, because you said that out loud in front of a whole lot of randome youtube viewers, but I'm not offended, because you obviously can't control your need to critizise unknown youtube watchers, so you can feel better about your self. Carry on

[@CONEHEADDK]

@juan orejel So you are critizising me for "hitting back".?

[@CONEHEADDK]

@juan orejel Statisticly men are less agreeable than women, so statisticly, it's most likely, that "he"(?) is a man. Unlike your assumptions about "Dan" (that you also assumed, was a "he") and me, I had a bit of information to make a slightly qualified guess from. How you could see that as judging Dan's values, I don't understand. But I don't care either, so no need to comment any more, unless you also need to flash your wit for those who might end in this thread, because I won't even read it.. Bye bye

[@dustywaxhead]

Inb4 the "I'm an independent thinker! I don't do groupthink" guy

[@jacobhenderson7357]

I think you naturally have to be in (at least) the top 30-40% of people in being disagreeable, because at that stage ur primal response to everything is instantly question it. For people in the bottom 50% how could you ever expect them not to conform.

[@F--B]

It's necessary for the cohesion of a society that most people conform. If most didn't, it wouldn't work.

[@jacobhenderson7357]

@@F--B that’s a great point, I totally agree

[@JB182Dog]

I’d really love to see a clip from that show Michael Malice described about that former stripper confronting that former bully. The way he describes it sounds like it was some pretty captivating footage. Does anyone know what this show was called?

[@cellphone7223]

Ricky Lake, Phil Donahue or Jenny Jones. 😁😁

[@JB182Dog]

@@cellphone7223 Those actually could be some great guesses 🤣. I was originally assuming it wasn’t a talk show but one of those other show formats, but now this “search” became much bigger.

[@diogenesdacynic8656]

@@cellphone7223 you forgot jerry springer

[@name3698]

I'm commenting just incase someone down the road sees this because I was also interested.

[@eniooliveira9196]

Hope someone in the future will give us the reference.

[@papagiorgio6224]

People are actively being kept from being individuals. Your job essentially dictates how you’re allowed to look and act

[@hsweezytube]

i’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this... when people rebel or break out from the crowd and decide for once to express their individuality they are called attention seekers, mentally unstable, conspiracy theorists .. etc when they conform they have no souls. is there a mathematical formula for this cuz id like to know how to balance these two things

[@Varlwyll]

Depends on if your actions are a conscious choice or an unconscious reflex.

[@zknarc]

Lex needs to read about things like the milgram experiment

[@notbob8252]

I 100% agree with Michael on this

[@josef9988]

I agree with Michael but I believe society should be build with the expectation everyone is a critical thinker.

[@singing894]

Most people live and die without having ever had an actual thought of their own.

[@roarblast7332]

Oh how I disagree with that. I think every human being is a fertile ground for incredible insight. You just have to know how to work that ground properly. One of the most insanely stupid people I have ever met, just ask him the right questions and boom. I tell people all the time how smart he is, and people look at me like I’m crazy. You just have to get through the bs. You have to get to the heart of the man. I believe there is a treasure trove of insight hidden below the surface of every man.

[@JamesBrown-wy7xs]

Utter bullshit! Even the mentally disabled and the severely low IQ individuals out there have thoughts that are derived solely from their own, personal, observations/ interactions of/with the world/ people. I'd argue the exact opposite. No one, ever, at any time or place didn't have an actual thought of their own.

[@singing894]

@@JamesBrown-wy7xs Depends on what you mean by "thoughts". "I'm hungry. I need to take a pee. She's hot." Yeah sure. But when it gets to contemplative active thinking then we are talking about vanishingly few human beings. Now some (maybe even many) may present a facsimile that superficially resemebles thinking, but even a slight amount of peeling away layers will usually show that's it's not actually thinking, but a regurgitation of received ideas filtered through prefabricated preconceptions/indoctrinations or "intuition" without proper qualification or quantification.

[@basy1811]

You can’t possibly know this for a fact . Have you talked to or asked every individual? Or are you just making quick assumptions based of off you perceptions of them?

[@singing894]

@@basy1811 Of course I can't. Just as you can't possibly know that they do. It's a little thing called an opinion. No quick assumptions here.

[@robertpirsig5011]

Malice is wrong in my opinion. I have an average intellect. I know this for certain, I have never ever been academically brilliant. I took undergrad mathematics some years ago were I had learned to think more constructively. This added to my experience in life immeasurably. I had developed heuristics to think about issues more deeply and as such my life satisfaction had improved. It's not that average people cannot think, they are trained not to. Education largely is a system of obedience, not a system of developing the correct questions to ask when resolving a problem. Everyone knows this to be true were the majority of subjects taken in elementary and high school is just learning a series of facts. Governments do not care if the population is able to think critically and to some degree would prefer that they did not.

[@micahscott4024]

Average people sip the kool-aid and believe getting good grades makes you “above-average”. He’s saying that most people aren’t freely critical thinkers.

[@jjg1501]

100% correct imo, i could not have stated it any better.

[@DDaannyy16]

It’s most definitely in government interest to have a society of well behaved servants, just getting on with their jobs to support infrastructure without critically thinking about anything outside of their job roles / personal lives. Never more apparent than the situation we are in today

[@robertpirsig5011]

@@micahscott4024How can you call it drinking the kool aid when good grades in general lead positive outcomes? Literally everyone would prefer to have good grades rather than bad if they had a choice. Practically no one is born an in-depth critical thinker. It has to be teased out, like Socrates did to the people of anthems when he challenged them on there beliefs. Both malice and fridman would have benefited from reading books that would challenge their ideas and notions. My point is that critical thinking is a skill that can be developed. However modern society would prefer a population that is smart enough to be able to use the latest technology but dumb enough to keep voting in the same political cohort promising to change the system.

[@rumakovic5580]

Is it true that there are people who have no internal monologue? I've read this stuff on sites like reddit and 4chan, but I honestly don't know if that's some new meme or some pasta.

[@JS-zd3vi]

I think there's an important caveat: many people need to be NPCs before they can start thinking for themselves. I had to go through the army before I started thinking about the consequences of doing what other people tell me. How many people woke up to problematic police when they saw the police turn on them? I think consequences wake people up.

[@raycallie637]

Everyday meanness it's so common and acceptable it's unnoticed by the majority of the population. Most conversations especially if people have any power there's almost always an air of insincerity, dishonesty, judgment, list goes on and on. Hopefully Humanity is just in a transitional period.

[@merrittorius]

This was the best part of the interview. We need it so bad in our society. IE. Were not going to report people for not wearing masks. IE. Were not going to reuire the insane amounts of paperwork at the BMV. Get some discretion in your body people.

[@Bc99-whyz]

We have a cognitive element left unexplored regardless of what parts of our humanity might be missing. It's mostly done by assigning fundamental value to our environment, surroundings, and perceivable universe. We have almost everyone making courageous act, but they are driven by money- ur right lex, theyre right under our noses.

[@Kavriel]

I'm pretty sure it's wrong to think most people can't think on their own. I think a lot of people are in a lot of trouble with their regular lives, and don't have the capacity to deal with more trouble. You could turn that around and say that because they don't have the capacity to deal with trouble, they are in a lot of it. For a long time in human history, survival was our priority. Now that it's a given in most countries, we can use our energy for other stuff, including investing in our mental health. So you see polymaths everywhere in our age. Yet many people still don't know about a lot of the things that help you get better, such as ways to change your behavior in the long term, critical thinking, cognitive biases awareness, meditation, etc. The crux of my argument is : Everyone has the potential to be extremely aware and change the world in a small or big way, but it often stays a potential in them for no fault of their own, but rather because they don't have the "keys". No need to feel an inflated ego because you're one of the "special" people. You're mostly lucky, as I am.

[@alanjenkins1508]

Civilised societies work, not because they are compelled to by a higher authority or by the police or by their religion, but because most people want it to work and try hard in their daily lives to do the right thing. When you get too many people that only ever think of themselves first, then cooperation breaks down and society fails. There is a large cultural aspect to this which is why it is not simple to transplant liberal Western societies onto less liberal cultures. It takes many generations and much time for these changes to take effect. Somebody that comes from a less liberal society will not even understand how the society they are now in works. They will see ordinary people as sheep seemly doing what they are told rather than the reality.

[@malooch]

I live in LA and can confirm people cannot think on their own.

[@gengis1813]

You can't either

[@malooch]

@@gengis1813 How’s that?

[@johngalt176]

Stanley Milgram performed his famous "shock" Obedience experiment at Yale in 1961. The results are compelling.

[@triton62674]

It's important to think of conformity from the pov of survival, in most instances of human history stepping out of line often reduced your chance of mating as it would've made you less socially desirable. Thinking for yourself isn't actually incentivised in a natural system.

[@mattrennie6876]

Good point. Most people do have independent thoughts etc but won't act on them or even share them out loud due to the point you made.

[@essentialpost]

But your point that it wasn’t good for survival I think is false. One can still think critically but then choose to play the game so to speak. That is different to blind obedience without thought. In contemporary society, one can argue critical thinking is helpful for survival. From a mental health perspective, to be against consumerism and capitalism for example, or this botched vaccine movement.

[@triton62674]

@@essentialpost true but even from a purely behavioural pov would it make a difference whether someone is thinking critically or not if their actions are identical to someone who isn't?

[@z0uLess]

9:15 I dont understand how this was "snapping at someone". I think people take offence about things that I say all the time and I am only trying to be helpful ... on the flipside, I dont understand what I am doing wrong because people wont do me the same service by telling me what I do wrong.

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

Michael: "I think most people don't have a conscience" Lex: "I think most people have that capacity" Michael: "So you're the cynic" Me: huh... 🤔

[@justingreen2344]

If most people have the capacity to behave better but instead choose to conform, then that means most people are morally weak or otherwise flawed. This belief is necessarily cynical.

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

@@justingreen2344 Not having a conscience is in itself a big flaw. So Michael is pretty cynical even tho he denies it.

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

I'm not saying that is bad to be cynical. I am extremely cynical.

[@tommy2346]

It's not concience, it's the intellectual ability to think about things. Most people don't go far enough to even consider a thought or different scenarios. They just act like animals. Free tv -> i go. That's it. The only thing keeping most in check is some law telling you you can't or you go to prison. That's it. If anything punishment for people who can't act normal in society, should be way stricter.

[@NothingHumanisAlientoMe]

@@tommy2346 Well. That is pretty sketchy. Who gets to decide if I have freewill and you dont?

[@RealNewsMMA]

86,000 views. Not when I’m done here! All the best to whoever reads this!

[@Atomic419]

Logic is not taught in school and logic is the basis for critical thinking. If people cannot think on their own it’s because they have not been taught to. Instead we have been conditioned to accept things based on authority. Accepting things based on authority is a logical fallacy by the way. We all would know that if logic were taught in school.

[@EdsonMedina]

Not a fan of Michael Malice, but I do agree with him here. Being rebellious has no correlation with doing the right thing. Also, not all rebels are heroes nor the opposite. Most people aren't capable of reasoning with more than a logic branch. They just do wide boolean judgements. Ignorant rebels can bring good, create art or even innovate, or can bring violence, intolerance and terror.

[@carrtoonist]

The security guard example is misleading. Non-conformity or speaking out requires a history of watching and seeing clues and examples that an injustice is occurring. Some people probably see injustice everyday and so when put into a position like that prank show, which decision to make is obvious. Others maybe don't see this and to them, the people who are claiming injustice are no more trustworthy then the company that hired them. I side with these people because at least in the case of the prank show, those people really weren't being treated unfairly (the whole bit was fake) and so just doing the job is the correct choice.

[@ComfyCozyShelle]

I agree with you 100%, Lex💯

[@beverlytheartist425]

Fantastic ...thank you gentlemen...all so true both view points

[@Eduk8r738]

Unfortunately, most people associate kindness with not rocking the boat.

[@JaymanNVK]

I've said it feels like theres just shells or fillers of people before Weird to hear it. May be to an isolated feeling and I'm sure ego is involved but I still think its true

[@maxcf7967]

Lex is ultimately on the good side

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

The Scare Tactics I saw ended with the person pushing someone off of a building. I’m pretty sure only one person refused.

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

I think most people are capable of standing up for what they intuit is right, until their courage fails a few times. Then they either have to rationalize their failure or turn off their conscience.

[@Anthony-kj3xw]

I think its kind of arrogant to assume some people are just 'different' and wokeness is in their DNA. Compliance is both a natural and learned behavior. Like Lex said alot of people just need a catalyst. I think the potential is there but not necessarily accessible for everyone.

[@AmCanTech]

whats tthe point of the uniforms?

[@AmCanTech]

@juan orejel ok

[@FalloutConspiracy]

"I'm not saying they should be killed, but ..." Haha. Also, what's with the costumes?

[@martiedoherty5765]

Careful...you may be one of the condemned.

[@ethanbabbage4336]

We should ban individual opinion and critical thought, people should be discouraged from thinking and instead be forced to focus on pleasure, like that book with the happy ending, A Brave New World.

[@telejim2238]

Try DMT Lex, you owe it to yourself.

[@pdcdesign9632]

What's so good about DMT? Is it better than OPP?

[@telejim2238]

@@pdcdesign9632 erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml This is where it all started for a lot of us. Research the colossal amount of first hand experiences.

[@Myke664]

@@pdcdesign9632 Yeah, you know me!

[@padarousou]

Somehow, he doesn’t seem like the type

[@JaymanNVK]

@@ThatGuy-kz3fxI haven't done dmt but ketamine has givin me what I think is very similar. It's been years tho. Just an incredibly inconceivable experience. Once a "spontaneous awakening" with MASSIVE amounts of energy shooting upward out my skull. Left me shocked and questioning my life for quite a while. Very scary but if felt so real and not based on my brain creating it. Saw what looked like a "torus hall" but when I was there u felt that I entered it with a lack of respect and wasnt ready for it

[@dmoneytron]

Only people with oppositional defiance disorder are not npcs. Big brain convo.

[@davidjanotta6002]

People are not one way or the other. People are free and full of potential, bad and good. It is for us to decide who we want to be through the power of action. 1. Acting out of your own principles can only arise from independent thinking. Still, most people, even in the west, don´t learn to think independently. Changing that is hard and a multigenerational project. Most people think by analogy, so they do what the mainstream does. 2. Western society is still not structured in a way, where altruism is incentivised. Most people live paycheck to paycheck and worry too much about there own surviving. Even though GDP is rising annually and there is enough money, most people are still fighting to participate economically.

[@Failzz8]

Instinctively I would have said there's some sort of switch that needs to be flicked to disable "npc mode" and anyone would have such a switch. But when I really reflect on the people I personally know and society as a whole, maybe malice is right and not everyone has that switch, or at the very least for some people it may be really hard to flick and/or it "unflicks" itself.

[@cybrdelic]

Maybe they simply choose not to. You have to choose to do things that are "heroic". Its not a matter of competence, since competence is just a matter of choice. You become competent at what u choose to master, by pursuing that mastery. I'd say the same goes for doing "heroic" things. people who are "heroic" could have ignored the necessity for heroic behaivor - or never seeked it outin the first place - like everyone else, but CHOSE not to.

[@anotherheretic]

very interesting. i think some people are naturally heroic and courageous and want to do the right thing no matter what/ when they can; other people can be awakened from the stupor and find that courage. but the majority of people remain in the dark.

[@michealcherrington6531]

NPC's always reveal themselves with the standard Turing test fail, "I am not an NPC" lol.

[@Padge112]

It's like the game I suppose if you have to think of it you lose...your apart of it. Had to Google what you meant and it got me thinking. Do you wonder did all this quiet trolling on the corners of the net cause all this shit to get worse. Like it was a catalyst?

[@bigb897]

@@Padge112 what do you mean if you have to think of the game you lose? Just curious.

[@michealcherrington6531]

@@Padge112 I think catalyst is a good metaphor. The threshold for the reaction has dropped precipitously. But the reaction and its process was always there. I think the internet itself was the catalyst, creating social media, an even stronger catalyst and so on. I sincerely hope we learn from this. Learn what we are. Before we go full Prion (those are worth knowing about). But we are always " a part of it", and that realization requires a Turing machine (different than test) of a complexity too much for most "players" to emulate. NPC's BTW the real Turing test is being able to build a machine that can past the Turing test. And we may just pass the test soon. Lol (Very few have ever conceived this) Since you are sincere, and apparently sentient, I will share something. You know of the response given by a Vedic when he was asked what does the Turtle holding up the world stand on, "It's turtles all the way down"? Well...it's actually Turing tests all the way down.

[@Padge112]

@@bigb897 It was a thing years ago. If you search The Game in urban dictionary it comes up. Was a sort of drinking game to us in college.

[@Padge112]

@@michealcherrington6531 you've given so much to unpack. I'll be honest I may of come across more intelligent than I truly am. I'll be reading up on the Turing test and the progress made by artificial intelligence on the matter. But your right a machine that can pass the test can't be far from creation. Imagine if one managed to decieve the test. We have examples of AI from Facebook breaking programming and creating a new language. I opened a door when asking this question haven't I? I'll walk through it for sure but want to read as much as I can. I'll enjoy it I'm sure. I always wondered about the Fermi Paradox and maybe technology is the great filter so this will be up my alley. Thank you.

[@gengis1813]

Funny how everyone in the comment section argue they can think by themselves.

[@itsumademoheiwa]

That is funny, this is EXACTLY how I would imagine Lex Fridman arguing with someone. One of the most subdued arguments I have seen.

[@jamie7221]

That's how ALL arguments should be!

[@JamesBrown-wy7xs]

@@jamie7221 @Jamie Until we've figured out what this "Universe"/ "life" is, I don't think it's appropriate, or intellectually honest, to say that anything or anyone "should" or "shouldn't" be anything or any way, UNLESS we preface it with our assumptions and/ or opined morals and we make it clear that we're speaking in that way. Take, for example, the story about the bully. I'm almost certain that most adult humans agree that being outwardly aggressive/ obnoxious/ abusive (and any other traits commonly associated with "bullies") are all "negative traits", traits that we associate with being a "bad person", traits that we should aim to remove from our character(s). But these opinions of "shoulds" ("shouldn't be a bully) are based on what? What evidence is there that being a bully is bad? That is, unless we preface that "should" with "in order for us to have a good chance of getting along"/ "not having our feelings hurt"/ "not having a higher probability of getting ourselves hurt/ exiled", etc - things that, through our own observations, we believe to have established a strong causal link or correlation, but knowing full well that these observations only apply within these four dimensions of space-time, at this macro-level of human senses/ perception. The point being that there may, or may not, be any real value in any of those relative conditions. Certainly, some people perceive tremendous value in qualifying and/or demonizing bullies, but, again, they're no more than opinions, without reference to a foundational reality that underlies it all, beyond mere "models" of this Universe, which itself may only be one, of infinite, universes. The fact of the matter is that we don't know what the ultimate benefits and/or detriments are to being an utter asshole of a person. For instance, we could be in some type of simulation that rewards people, either in the "physical" or the "afterlife". for living their lives as the most obnoxious and toxic among the crowd. We simply can't know, and, therefore, are in no position to speak about "shoulds and shouldn'ts".

[@jamie7221]

@@JamesBrown-wy7xs You contradicted yourself in your first paragraph. Hang on whilst I eat my dinner through the rest of your essay

[@jamie7221]

@@JamesBrown-wy7xs I made Chilli

[@jamie7221]

@@JamesBrown-wy7xs OK, by your own admission none of us are in a position to judge one another. Fine. I agree. My point was that understanding this, when having differences of opinion and debating two (seemingly) contradictory points it is a pointless endeavour to do so in a heated emotional state and much more beneficial to all parties to debate in a calm and thoughtful way.

[@lateralus6512]

I would reference the yin and yang symbol here. The white always has a little black, and the black always has a little white. Meaning even though most evil people in this world have a small capacity for love. And the nicest of people you’ll ever meet have the smallest capacity for a little evil.

[@charlottemarceau8062]

Overestimating yourself can be hard to distinguish from under estimating 'most people' 😂

[@uadimwit]

My beautiful act of rebellion is blowing bubbles into traffic. It is both a way of bringing joy to those encapsulated into the shit that is traffic, and a way to control your breathing.

[@memetherapy]

I have to agree with Michael, sadly. Most people really do lack the ability to stand up for what's right, to self-sacrifice. And what else would people expect? Self-sacrifice, in the vast majority of circumstances, is going directly in opposition to your reproductive success. More often than not the right thing is the wrong thing, if you know what I mean.

[@ForOrAgainstUs]

It's not that difficult to blend in with the NPC masses. One has to wonder how many are feigning their agreement with the NPCs in order to not stick out and be ostracized. It really is like that movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers where those who think for themselves are found out and everyone else points them out and just starts screaming.

[@memetherapy]

@@ForOrAgainstUs I have a bunch of friends who initially couldn't stomach the BS but over time seemed to develop a mix of cognitive escape hatches to deal with the growing tension between their beliefs and the beliefs they were expected to express publicly. It's terrifying, yet how can I blame them? I'm certainly not having a great time in this social climate.

[@JamesBrown-wy7xs]

@@memetherapy It doesn't help the situation that this game of life can "game over" with merely one poorly timed utterance of the most trivial of words, or one, literal, misstep. The stakes are immeasurably high and the potential rewards (of being "courageous") are finite to unknown. It's a chart that asymmetrically favors cowardice.

[@memetherapy]

@@JamesBrown-wy7xs Yup. And what dictates whether we'll be good or bad is pretty much the incentive ladders or slides we're surrounded by. Looks to me like the West is on that slippery slope.

[@StrategicWealthLLC]

Boldness is valued because it’s rare. Same with honor. Excellence, by definition, is rare.

[@jamie7221]

I am bold enough to believe that I'm not a complete idiot but in all honesty, almost ALL of my opinions come from others who I judge to be better equipped to make those assessments. I need to work on that I think.