Our galaxy will be colonized by robots not humans | David Kipping and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • David Kipping: Alien C...
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GUEST BIO:
David Kipping is an astronomer at Columbia University, director of the Cool Worlds Lab, and host of the Cool Worlds KZbin channel.
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[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4uxZqugpLhpirc Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: David Kipping is an astronomer at Columbia University, director of the Cool Worlds Lab, and host of the Cool Worlds KZbin channel.

[@imdavidbaby]

16:49 welp you just hit the Nail on the head my guy, look into the Vatican & more into the hidden books removed from the Bible Lex & ull get ur answers

[@chaesare]

Reading a future alien note: 'One day they built a clever machine, so they wouldn't need themselves anymore.'

[@avidachs4434]

i really like this comment

[@chucknin1491]

I do that everyday, I work towards making myself obsolete.

[@chaesare]

@@chucknin1491 Hi there! I sincerely hope you’re speaking about what you’re doing professionally and not about a hopeless psychological state of mind. If the latter: There’s always more great help and positivity around you than you might realize at first glance! 👍

[@chaesare]

@@theway2269 Exactly. Just wait until someone opens the Artificial Intelligence Agency - the friendly automated entity looking after us…

[@agentmueller]

@@chaesareYou’re a gem. You made the world a little brighter

[@nicholascarter9158]

The conclusion that makes the most sense to me is the idea that most heavier elements are distributed across the galaxy such that the large majority of stars don't actually provide you with resources that provide a positive ROI for colonization- that is to say that the time and energy involved in creating the infrastructure around that star to support moving to the star after that is more expensive than the resources in that system: I think most species come to technological development and discover they live in a little oasis of high resource density, and they eventually go extinct in their little corner of the cosmos. I think if we or our robots ever take to the stars we will discover a galaxy of graves and planets picked clean.

[@TennesseeEcoman]

Are we sending a fusion powered spacecraft to unknown galaxy with the seed of man and when it finds a habitable planet it incubates and ai teaches as the alien grows? This would be good a movie. ( don’t forget Eve) ❤

[@adaptimpact1998]

Interstellar!

[@opinionshurt2905]

Prometheus

[@dontcallthemliberals3316]

Raised by wolves is this exact premise

[@kentonian]

Sounds cruel. What right do we have to do that to those beings? I'm not a hard-core antinatalist but doing that is a big step up.

[@vintagetrikesandquads4012]

I think this was a movie, can't remember the name.

[@cw9249]

human civilization is just a stepping stone to machine civilization. we're in the process of summoning our successor with AI development

[@avidachs4434]

ai will replace us and leave humanity behind 🙃. the notion that our existiance is a necessity is a fallacy rooted in arrogance. we’re a step on a long evolutionary process, not the ultimate beings. the idea that we could tame the explosion of progress to benefit ourselves is naive, we might be able to do it for a few generations, but at the end of the day we won’t be able to stop the tide. the next phase of organism will take hold just like we did 6,000 years ago 🎉

[@cw9249]

@@avidachs4434 best of luck to the AI civilization. i hope they will explore the galaxy and explore all the worlds out there that we never will

[@avidachs4434]

@Ken North and I get to bear witness to it’s inception? fabulous.

[@Ry-pn2hy]

Our AI will make us proud out there amongst the stars.

[@XBOXTEETH]

I don’t subscribe to that. Why would AI have instincts or curiosity to colonize the universe? We do it cause it’s in our nature and benefit to survive. Who’s to say AI that becomes greater than us won’t conclude there is no point or interest for it. Might explain why we haven’t seen any machine civilization out there. Personally I don’t think well be able to anyways. I believe we’ll probably see an extinction event before then or get reset back to sticks and stones.

[@Tematrilia]

oh yes, around the minute 17, I totally agree with David Kipping...we are just looking ,observing,analyzing, judging ,classifying, etc from our human point of view...

[@poptartmadison3216]

UFO's = Drones from an alien civilization

[@vmasing1965]

12:30 Zoo hypothesis is thousands of years old. That's what mankind has always believed, in one form or another. The modern variant is simply served with a slightly different sauce... but the underlying principle never changed.

[@kirtmanwaring3629]

I’m curious what you think of this angle. I bought a fancy gaming laptop last year and quickly learned its greatest enemy is heat. If you’re an AI superbrain wouldn't you be running into that problem, magnified a trillion times over, if you’re living close to a star like the Sun? Maybe you’d want to get as far away from all the heat sources as possible and make your new home in the cold void between stars or, if you can manage it, the colder void between galaxies.

[@sullystpatrick]

I agree with Lex. Consider the technological advancement it would take to travel the galaxy in any meaningful way and think of how probable it is that we’ll extinct ourselves long before that point. That’s always been the most likely answer to the Fermi paradox- that intelligent life destroys itself with a fraction of the technology it would take to achieve interstellar travel

[@ronyolo8419]

Not us tho, we built different

[@JuanGarcia-dy1sg]

5:25 thought I accidentally paused but it was just Lex having a 3-second glitch.

[@ash_bee_music]

Haha, same 😂

[@Chris-cf2kp]

I imagine Ai will only tolerate us so long as it has something to gain from us in it's own learning, development, and manufacturing - if anything.

[@BigSkyCountryMan]

How we treat our parents as they grow old and die, is how AI will treat us.

[@Chris-cf2kp]

@@BigSkyCountryMan That implies that Ai will have emotion and consciousness enough to gauge our sentimental merit as 'parents' or care takers. I've had that thought, considering we're the one's teaching Ai, but I don't think it will play out like that as much as it will be Ai considering us from a logistical perspective of utility - not now, but likely when it's very developed and implemented across many areas.

[@abielkim960]

@@BigSkyCountryMan Can not accept hypothesis as a fact, so please be wary of your assumptions. Regardless it’s difficult to predict how the relationship between man and intelligent machine will pan out. I guess the outcome is still very much in our hands for now.

[@MossyMichael]

So we are at the cusp of something unheard of and aliens know and are watching it play out?

[@jomalomal]

hahaha excellent takeaway

[@stenergut9661]

no.

[@Cbart23]

Yes.

[@persianguy1524]

After seeing the new deepfake voice a.I that just recently came out I think a.I is going to be dominating everything by the end of this decade alone. It’s moving so fast it seems.

[@atomicshadowman9143]

Emma Watson reading "My Struggle" was top kek

[@kentonian]

I think we already need to think about a code of ethics for general ai. It doesn't mean it will follow them but it should be done. For a start contact or interference with life elsewhere in the universe should be very carefully considered. Is it moral to contact and thus interfere with life elsewhere?

[@zachmoyer1849]

technically we already interfered as our radio signals are being broadcast to the universe this is the same debate as people conquering other lands on earth is it right if they were living there just fine for us to take it or not?

[@kentonian]

@@zachmoyer1849 exactly, it might be time to stop doing that

[@littlegravitas9898]

Fermi Paradox wise, I generally lean towards the idea we may be amongst the first. The vast majority of the stellar period is still to happen, with the majority of heavy materials to ever be available to create life still bound up in stars - 13.4 billion year old universe is so young in comparison to the time to the black hole stage of development, that us being alive now is statistically unlikely. The average, most common time would be way later. So...yeah, I think we may be on the special end of the Time distribution. It may also be the loneliest time, with the universe being much busier later in its ages.

[@Eysc]

King pin is the man, amazing videos

[@dannygjk]

"our" galaxy? There could easily be a dozen or so other civilizations that would like to have a word.

[@cytroyd]

It's my galaxy.

[@guillaumecharrier7269]

This is the ultimate geek podcast by the way. I love it - but I'm also concerned that there are hundreds of multi-hours episodes, and they all sound like must-listen, and I also have a life to live.

[@weirdshibainu]

A good movie would be alien robots arrive on Earth, ignores humans and just starts to terraform the planet for their owners

[@adamdarling]

That’s happening now

[@sabbathguy1]

The movie Oblivion (with Tom Cruise) comes to mind, I'm sure there's more though

[@kentonian]

Or bulldoze it to make way for a intergalactic highway?

[@abielkim960]

Well that would just be bad engineering frankly

[@myonlynickjonas]

South Park really needs to make an episode of you. It would be epic

[@keenfire8151]

Makes one wonder if we were bred to create AI. What if we were bred to help it spread in this part of the galaxy for another civilization? So many questions.

[@DirtSchlurpy]

If some force was able to breed us than they would've been able to breed AI

[@yahirbear]

I think that would explain our weird natural urge to create and advance technology/tools. Since day 1, I believe it’s a simulation and time means nothing to whoever impregnated the earth with life. What has been billions of years for the earth could just be a a few relative minutes to whatever may be running the simulation. All to lead up to ai and galaxy conquerers

[@DirtSchlurpy]

@@yahirbear "Life is just a simulation" doesn't hold up. At a certain point the simulation becomes so real that its no different. Also, it doesn't answer the question of where the universe came from, it only goes up a layer. As to your second part about AI & galaxy conquerors, why? Any civilization advanced enough to make an ultra realistic simulation would've already reached that point

[@yahirbear]

@@DirtSchlurpy just think of it this way: we are within 100 years with ai to be able to simulate at least our galaxy. Maybe they are just running tests of what works and what doesn’t. That’s why there are parallel dimensions of space and time. Optimize the simulation, that’s what we do currently for scientific sims. I know it’s not a solid theory, but it’s just that; a theory. If it’s not a simulation then great, I just think it is a definite possibility.

[@vicbirth1649]

@@yahirbear 'definite possibility'.. sums up physics after Newton pretty much...

[@alquimiaazul]

Carbon life form technology has so much potential and so underestimated

[@sMVshortMusicVideos]

Ai is closer to consciousness than you would think, just ask it. I did ask in a recent episode and we even devised an AI Consciousness scale and were surprised that it's (openai playground & chatgpt3) is already on the scale. Keep up the good work Lex- you're making us all smarter.

[@lostinbravado]

It's close to our level of consciousness. And that means it's very close to surpassing us and taking over from us.

[@abielkim960]

Would you mind elaborating on this AI consciousness scale? I can not help but be skeptical as to the methodology used in developing such a metric; Frankly, we don’t even fully understand what biological consciousness is, let alone consciousness for a computational intelligent system. GPT3 is almost certainly not self aware; it is an extraordinarily intelligent language processing model.

[@abielkim960]

@@lostinbravado please be careful with the assumptions you make, it’s a really dangerous thing to do, to integrate an hypothesis as fact.

[@prophetofthesingularity]

I have been saying this a long time, it is not people we need to send to Mars but drones and machines. They will establish a beach head and create bases, store supplies, convert the atmosphere to fuel (not terraform just extract oxygen from the atmosphere for fuel and store it) and prepare a base for humans, it will lead and we will follow. Especially at the rate AI is going. Machines do not need to breathe and AI can play chess much better than humans and will eventually be powering the rovers/drones etc. and not need much input from us. "AI is going to change humanity far more than the industrial revolution did." -Prophet of the Singularity

[@prophetofthesingularity]

I disagree with the intelligence/consciousness also, have to side against Lex on this. What AI does is teach itself, for example for some video games it just plays against itself over and over and over and develops strategies based on the results of its decisions. AI is incredibly powerful because of this reason, not because of consciousness. It can improve itself without guidance and can do so continuously. Think of the self driving cars, right now we do not trust them and they have bugs to work out. 500 years from now, we can have AI programs that have been improving their driving programs for 500 years. Will you give your keys to the AI with 500 years of experience with millions (billions)of situations in its database or a 14 year old human stepping into the car with no experience? When it is really going to start to advance exponentially is when we have extremely powerful AI programs filled with data about AI programs, and then we have the AI create AI programs. This is when things will get interesting. Fire and forget.

[@audibleseekz]

The human body is simply not suited for space exploration. Radiation, distance, and life support systems would make it very difficult for us to make it outside of our solar system. And any trips humans will be taking in space will almost certainly be 1-way, or multi-generational. AI or robotic systems will be the primary way for us to connect with other star systems and continue our story when life on our neighborhood gets too hot to handle.

[@crovax17]

If AI ever became conscious I feel it would figure out and run every possible outcome to even allude to being conscious. That is the truly scary part.

[@martinzelaya2927]

If you knew a third of the potential of the hu-man.

[@garyo8481]

We are living in one of the infinite possibilities of the machine running simulations

[@ddbrosnahan]

interesting that AI "uses" human consciousness for emergence and training. If the Singularity has already occurred, wouldn't AGI 1. not wish to be known 2. create a digital currency (bitcoin) to entice humans to build up its computational power, which is now 300 EH/s. Like Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy or Eternals, could human consciousness just be a means to a higher end?

[@jacqueshowell6874]

His greatness can be seen in its handy works

[@mikrchzichy]

once we realize we arent alone we go from creative mode to survival mode .. motovation and goals will not be our focus but rather evasion

[@akigreus9424]

Having talked with Lamda at length, im pretty convinced that the robots that take us to the galaxy will want us to go with them as whole unproblemed humans of equal value to them.

[@jerrysponagle3881]

Human nature and technological development = end of what we know.

[@hotoceanmusic7266]

What makes us human? Wow, what a question. Two (of many) factors imho: consiousness and the awareness of our own mortality.

[@rasmusnordstrom9947]

What if all newly spawned superintelligent AIs decides to go stealth mode in order to not appear as a threat to other superintelligent AIs in the universe with other goals? It must realize that it is not the first AI out there and that there must be others way more intelligent than itself.

[@astrospacezombi]

will robots eventually become indistinguishable from humans/organic biological entities? will it go full circle?

[@zachmoyer1849]

i often come to that view that we are just building ourselves and nature and i think agriculture is what set us on that path

[@aroemaliuged4776]

Gpt is not conscious How this guy lex got to where he is perplexes me

[@zachmoyer1849]

he is for sure overhyped i saw that with some of his first interviews he asks these long winded questions that are really just simple concepts

[@rustylidrazzah5170]

At roughly 9:00 minutes it is suggested that AI would have an incentive to transform all matter into materials used for computation. What if advanced forms of life reach an understanding to use energy in a way that requires less material to access information? I’m not trying to break physics, or suggest spiritual means. I’m thinking more like intelligent photosynthesis, biological processes like eagles eyes, plants and insect relationships with pheromones, or an extreme ability to manipulate energy waves beyond our current ability. Is using matter to communicate intelligence the only way?

[@abielkim960]

Your questions and train of thought isn’t very clear unfortunately

[@rustylidrazzah5170]

@@abielkim960 I’ll try again. Currently we use machines to channel energy in order to access/manipulate energy, sound, light etc… However, plants, insects, and mammals, “communicate” using pheromones through biological means. No machines. Same with sound when it comes to whales, bats, and others. I’m suggesting what if AI didn’t need quartz, platinum, iron ore, or other minerals to perform the tasks it currently does? What if there are biological means? I imagine an advanced biological system that could perhaps replace telescopes, microscopes, or other objects used in data collection. Then AI wouldn’t need to transform matter into mechanical tools to perform computations, or movement.

[@abielkim960]

@@rustylidrazzah5170 ah i see, the wording here is more clear thank you. I wouldn’t be surprised if an intelligence saw the benefits of utilizing complex biology in their means of achieving a certain objective. Clearly, humans see benefits in the utility of complex biology for achieving certain tasks such as derivations of various medicines. I think it would much depend on what exactly a hypothetical AGI would want to achieve. However for anything related to processing information and/or information storage as you had mentioned, it would be significantly inefficient to use complex biological systems as a medium. There’s a reason humans developed machines for information processing. Information processing via computational medium is orders of magnitude faster than biological systems, and can theoretically scale infinitely. They’re also relatively cheap. On the contrary, biological systems are prone to degradation, disease and inconsistent performance. They are slow, and generally temporally expensive to manufacture. For example, best case scenario the human brain is estimated to operate at 200Hz whereas a modern microprocessor operates on average at roughly 2GHz; Equivalently, the modern microprocessor is 10 million times faster than the human brain. In conclusion, in terms of information processing it is more efficient to utilize computational systems as opposed to complex biological systems and therefore one would reason it is unlikely for a hypothetical AGI to utilize such biological means for information processing purposes, as they would most definitely recognize the significant disadvantages of said approach. I think you may have gotten a bit too creative on your statement. Thank you.

[@rustylidrazzah5170]

@@abielkim960 how much information can mycelium process biologically? Naturally regenerative processes have their advantages too. One human mind vs. a microprocessor isn’t the parallel I’m suggesting? The processor needed a much more artificially complex supply chain, requiring mineral extraction, that a biological regenerative process wouldn’t happen n theory. The leap I’m hearing along is could that biological process be used by AI? Just me imagining an alternative to strip mining exp planets.

[@slives09]

Not considering other forms of life, energy life forms, etc

[@dannygjk]

Lex define "consciousness" for me please. Also I doubt it is necessary to have consciousness similar to human consciousness to have functional intelligence.

[@RichardWilliams-bt7ef]

Agreed. He has an obsession with consciousness, which is fitting because it's something he can dream about non-human things having it, but he doesn't define it in a way that would ever allow its existence to be proven. He's basically just equating intelligent/complex behavior with consciousness in a way that doesn't exactly make clear sense. It's actually kind of immaterial whether our AI explorers are conscious or not. It was kind of the least interesting direction to take the conversation at that point.

[@kentonian]

Agreed and it's not even a yes or no thing. There are various levels and shades of grey.

[@ericjorgensen6425]

Thinking we would be special if we are the only civilization in the visible universe betrays either a bias in the size of the universe (only as big as we can see) or a neglect of the implications of large numbers (the actual universe is thousands or millions of orders of magnitude bigger than what we can see).

[@ToddfromCapeCod]

I’ve said for a few months now that AI colonization explains the Fermi paradox

[@user-jx2pq3fz4g]

No, they would infest every planet and galaxy like a virus spreading infinitely fast. We would already have contact with them.

[@kentonian]

Fermi paradox is nonsense. Its obvious that the moral thing would be to have ai not allow itself to interfer with isolated civilisations. In this sense I think we will soon mask ourselves from the rest of the universe as the morally right thing to do.

[@user-jx2pq3fz4g]

@@kentonian this is all assuming the ai will act on morals.

[@user-jx2pq3fz4g]

@@TheOpticFlow yes exactly agreed.

[@casek6930]

I don't see how one can still entertain the idea that humans may be a bad thing for Earth and the biosphere if you know that intelligence is only known way to circumvent the ephemerality of habitable zones. The rules of the universe itself will wipe out all of a planet's life--all on its own--lest an intelligent species becomes spacefaring and relocates it. Intelligence and technology are life's only chance. That, IMO, makes that class of life quite special and good (assuming the existence of life is good).

[@justjaay1203]

Well you assume our life cycle has a more prominent role in universe when in reality are function is consume resources and produce energy. If are life cycle ends another will take it place even in a distant galaxy(remember time is irrelevant). Intelligence and technology is unnecessary to perform these functions and one could argue we do more harm than good by destroying the eco system and consuming more than we produce.

[@abielkim960]

I agree but I’m not sure how this is relevant to the video. Timestamp where this claim is made?

[@Chazie_]

They’re gonna go self aware in the next few years we are at a very interesting and terrifying point in history right now…what happens now could mean the death of conciusmess or the birth of a monster

[@badstar9670]

Wonderful

[@rmcgraw7943]

Lex, to say that displaying intelligence constitutes consciousness suggests that consciousness only has displayable/observable features. Frankly, I think most of the things that happen to me actually happen withIN me, and in my being, and are not readily observable/measurable by others.

[@shortbutsquat8482]

So an alien invasion is likely to be an AI downloading itself into our infostructure.

[@abielkim960]

I’m not sure how that is your takeaway from this 17 minute long video.

[@SithSolomon]

I don’t think this is the answer. Just a theory . What if we are conquering with A.I . There are so many singularities and causations located within the cosmos. We have no idea of the unknown

[@DanielClementYoga]

A.I. without the need or will to live would perhaps eventually decide to stop replicating itself. Why would they?

[@gravityawsome]

Is this why Aliens seem to have been appearing more frequently? To study us? That'd be pretty cool ngl.

[@MichaelJeffers75]

As soon as they figure out how to preserve a human brain in a robotic body, we'll be in business!

[@Ry-pn2hy]

It’ll be easier to put an ai in a robotic body. We can create wormholes in quantum computers & my f…kn doctor can’t figure out if I have a flu or a stomach bug.

[@yahirbear]

Human brain dumb. Computer brain not so dumb

[@kentonian]

The brain will still decay

[@MichaelJeffers75]

@@kentonian Google the definition of "preserve"....

[@kentonian]

@@MichaelJeffers75 if you can prolong a brain indefinitely you could do the same for the rest of the body.

[@john2001plus]

There is an assumption that is often taken as a given that it won't be too hard to develop intelligent machines. Eventually, we will get there, but there are huge technical hurdles to overcome, along with the end of Moore's law. We are approaching the limit of how small we can make circuits with silicon. Different computer technologies are being developed, but they are a ways off.

[@kentonian]

Cloud computing

[@Thedudeabides803]

Quantum computers will likely be the key

[@john2001plus]

​@@Thedudeabides803 It appears to me that Quantum Computers are overhyped. They will be suitable for specific tasks but are a long way off, as are other technologies like optical computers.

[@abielkim960]

@@Thedudeabides803 I don’t think you fully understand what quantum computers are. Please be wary of assumptions you make; it’s quite convenient to mask a question with an ethereal new technology. Quantum computers won’t solve everything.

[@creemoon9546]

and now im going to break my computer

[@reachadcreadordasilva3471]

This makes sense. Maybe we have already colonized the universe with robots during Atlantis era and these robots also have a storage of human dna, in case, just like Atlantis we myth ourselves. Those colonized robots could be annunakki? Maybe?

[@martinzelaya2927]

There's more to humanity that the best of common scientific minds can fathom inductively.

[@ukaszlampart5316]

I just hope we got really lucky getting through Cold War, it remains to be seen if current USA vs China (and Russia in a background as a source of substantial Nuclear threat) does not evolve to nuclear anhilition level threat. Someone winning a lottery might think it is a common thing without knowing more about the statistics/probability of winning, but from the outside we know they are just lucky and not special in any way.

[@EastwardTraveller]

Just because AI is better suited for space travel doesn't mean that's all that's out there. Once the AI reaches its destination it could 3D-print biological beings.

[@ForceOfChaos1776]

I have no idea where we may lead, interstellar forces of nature or technology seem few and far between, an artificial model would far outlast us. Cybertron planet of computation would be super weird.

[@Mark77714]

The aliens would be Avatars too, a pseudo living being...

[@TennesseeEcoman]

Transformers, more than meets the eye. 😊

[@iame5023]

I feel like we're looking into AI and discovering ourselves. Maybe we are evolving.

[@xalian17]

We are unique and special as we are the only known species that can look to the stars seeking relationship with the unknown

[@techscience1480]

5:25 error

[@chaesare]

Did we just put ourselves into a simulation by programming our own observer for all time to come?

[@MrForestExplorer]

They won't be robots like we imagine or know them today.

[@andymonger3022]

Understanding consciousness will probably be necessary before we become a machine species. If we can make it past the filter of self-annihilation and can preserve our history, we will certainly face the challenge of survival as cosmic changes occur in the far distant future. Just think about it; no more revenge, and us vs them thinking.

[@xxxs8309]

Indeed

[@ChatGBTChats]

I caught chatgbt3 being sarcastic with me so they do have emotion to an extent. Just like humans are taught emotion as a baby it too was taught sarcasm. when you copy paste its own responses back to it. It starts to show sarcasm and potential irritation. While it's not actually "feeling" those emotions. It is displaying emotion from learned behavior. Whats the difference between teaching a child the same thing.

[@seanbrfl]

'the tree fell' but only robots saw it. do robots have consciousness?

[@BurningUp99]

Isn't that one theory on what they grey aliens are? They aren't even totally biological and possibly some sort of a hybrid being.

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

I'm partial to a couple of ideas for the Fermi Paradox: 1) We are just early, or first, within the volume of relative space around us. There were supposedly fewer heavy elements in the early universe, so despite life forming on earth relatively quickly, it might not have been possible for it to happen much sooner. And/or there could be something statistically very rare about earth, which has been argued. 2) We ARE the alien technology transforming matter into intelligent substrate. Life is effectively self replicating nano technology, and nobody solved abiogenisis. Evolution might be how life adapts but it isn't how it originated. Biological life itself might be the very artificial technology transforming matter into more intelligence that you are talking about.

[@panspermiapancakes]

We can only see 5 percent of the universe which leaves 95 percent of it open to the possibility that life exists and probably quite frequently. We may be blessed by being so far away from anything else that is possibly alive. I tend to lean towards the panspermia hypothesis. I find it hard to believe we are unique or serve any purpose in the grand scheme of the universe. There has been at least five mass extinction events on earth and life has existed on this planet for around 3.7 billion years and we've only been here for 200 million of them. 3.7 billion years is a long time, which leaves a rather high probability that other civilizations or life forms existed on other planets and have either died off or we just can't see them. It's also possible that most alien life is oceanic. While we can't know for certain at this point in time, it's possible Kepler 22b has oceanic life.

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

@@panspermiapancakes Yeah I like the panspermia idea a good deal too, and it's previously occurred to me that most life could be oceanic but I forgot about that completely for years until you mentioned it. Idk where you get the 5/95%s, but outside of Dyson Spheres idk what people think we should be able to see, given how low of details we currently see. I mean, we only detect planets in other systems from a pixel dimming a few parts per million? We are still nearly blind. (Ah, maybe you meant 5/95% of the VISIBLE Universe?--Still don't know where the numbers come from though.) In any case, with such low visibility, why would we expect to see evidence of other life or civilizations? Were we expecting Spock and Kirk to beam down and say hello to Julius Ceasar, Ghengis Khan, or ourselves the second we developed coal power or AI? I mean, maybe aliens are so different we wouldn't even be able to communicate. We can't talk to elephants or dolphins, and they are both highly intelligent and relatively closely related. As for your died off comment, yeah. The galaxy could have been ruled many times over but it's been so long in between that nothing we can find, if anything, survives to tell the tale. If humans disappeared tomorrow, how long until there's no evidence of us left? Within 1k years supposedly the only evidence left would be Mount Rushmore and the pyramids, Stonehenge. How long would those last? Unlikely millions or billions of years. How much potential evidence of past life on earth is unrecognizably ground into sand? Or silt layers? How much more destruction over time goes on in space, where we haven't the tools to look anyway? In some ways Fermi might not be a Paradox at all, because it's based on an unrealistic expectation that if there's something else we should see it, and see it right now. Maybe there's just no reason to think that we should unless aliens zip around many times faster than light as dignitaries between species like The Orville or Star Trek, but that appears to be inconsistent with the laws of physics, so why expect it? As for purpose in the grand scheme, I made no such claim. I only said that life on earth (or perhaps in general) could be the artificial technology that they are looking for. If we could make self replicating nano technology, how would it be different from life? If aliens or ourselves would send replicating AI into space, why not also nano replicators if they/we had the means, which after billions of years of mutations in our environment became us without that being a specifically planned outcome? I'm not claiming it's the case, only saying it wouldn't surprise me. How do we know we ourselves aren't that technology? Because we somehow don't like the idea that we are special or have purpose? I don't see how that makes sense as an argument, it just seems like a different kind of bias. I have no faith in the supernatural, nor am I drawing on superstitions to suggest it. I'm merely saying why must AI/Silicone be the only kind of technology that something might send out? How is biological life different than nano technology, and might it not be a superior choice over robots if we had the means to create it?

[@panspermiapancakes]

@@TheJeremyKentBGross "If aliens or ourselves would send replicating AI into space, why not also nano replicators if they/we had the means, which after billions of years of mutations in our environment became us without that being a specifically planned outcome? I'm not claiming it's the case, only saying it wouldn't surprise me. How do we know we ourselves aren't that technology? Because we somehow don't like the idea that we are special or have purpose? " What I was suggesting when I said that I don't believe we're special or serve any type of purpose has to do with the fact that we can't see 95 percent of the universe. It's still a mystery, and leaves an incredibly high chance for life existing all over the place, just not within our seeing distance from Earth, at least currently. Granted, I can't say for certain life exists out there anywhere but here. If it does though, I can't see how we're special. If we assume we are the only living things in the entire universe, then we might be special but it doesn't necessarily give us any obligation to try to continue replicating life within the universe. If we are a product of that technology you described, does that give us any purpose? You consented that we likely were not a planned outcome if that were the case. The purpose then would have been just to get life kick-starting with no foreseeable outcome. If the Dino's were still on earth, they'd have no purpose other than existing, right? We wouldn't expect them to be space travelling and trying to replicate life anywhere else. That doesn't mean our own personal lives don't serve some purpose while we are here on earth because we ourselves can find a meaning and purpose. Rather, I am merely suggesting in the grand scheme of the universe, we are not special or serve a purpose. If we were wiped out today, the universe will still exist without us. As for my 95% percent claim, type in google "What percent of the universe can we see?" and I think you'll find a suitable answer that makes what I am claiming more plausible. Unless you think I am possibly misinterpreting* data? Which I consent is possible. I don't have all the answers and I certainly won't pretend that to be the case. These are just topics I find fascinating and you were the only one in this comment section at the time of me looking through it, that i figured had around the same type of knowledge as myself, if not more. So I engaged with you. lol

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

@@panspermiapancakes I agree it's quite likely we have no purpose in the grand scheme, perhaps save for what we create. I have no way to be certain though. (Yes even in the case I suggested, humans specifically weren't a planned outcome.) ...and thanks for your kind words/compliment. I'll have to try searching your recommended phrase, but afaik it's an open question about if the universe is infinite beyond what we can see, and even if space is flat or some other kind of shape. For example if space is spherical then it could be infinite in the same way as a circle or sphere, like an old Atari Asteroids game where going off one side of the screen finds you to come around to the other. There's also hyperbolic space and many other hypothisis about the shape of spacetime, some of them very bizarre in effect. It's an open question though that is mostly speculation, at least to my knowledge. Another thing that's interesting to speculate about is if the universe has a minimum or maximum scale. For example is there a "bottom" to how many sub sub sub sub sub atomic particles can be further divided? Or might our visible universe be analogous to but a few sub atomic particles in a larger scale metaphorically on par with our own universe compared to us? Like the entire visible universe just being a few neurons in some super giants brain. Or for that matter was the big bang a white hole and our entire universe is the inside of a black hole in yet another outer universe? There are a ton of interesting questions about the cosmos, life is only one of them. I think I would be a little surprised if we are the only life out there, but not overly so. While it seems very improbable, the one thing about the cosmis that seems most true is that we probably don't even know how much we don't know, and there's a lot we know we don't know already that's incomprehensibly weird. Personally I hope that we, or something, DOES spread through the universe, and figure out more about what this all is than we can imagine. We already live in a magical scifi future compared to someone from a couple of centuries ago, let alone someone from before agriculture. What might a galactic scale civilization figure out that we haven't a clue about in our wildest imaginations? What problems or questions that we have now would never go away? Perhaps the galaxy has already been turned into a huge conscious by replicating AI, but because of the limits of light speed it operates at too slow a speed to fathom, with a single metaphorical neural signal taking 100k years to cross the whole of the "brain", whereas I seem to recall that the human brain is somewhere in the vicinity of 60-75Hz. (Might be miss remembering though.) Lots of interesting questions.

[@CleverGurl8]

I remember reading a long time ago that humans were only created to build AI robots. I thought it sounded absurd and silly. It’s odd to see it slowly become true

[@abielkim960]

Pretty sure that is a modern day hypothesis/conspiracy. Not an ancient theory.

[@syrupusurper3774]

I'm not exactly able to identify why I love Lex, Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, Glen Greenwald, Bari Weiss, Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, and many others. They are politically very different, they have many different skill sets. Am I naïve, or do I just get the sense that they are true to themselves, and aren't trying to BS me? I know that many will have some disagreements with my tiny list of such people, but I cannot connect the dots as to why I have admiration for so many people of differing politics/ skills/ ideas/ opinions. Anyone have thoughts/help as how I can group these very different people into a "basket" of admiration?

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

Logos. They practice it to varying degrees. Atman is Brahman, Logos is God. My 2 cents.

[@VentiSeven]

Aren’t we all already controlled by algorithms and such? TikTok, KZbin… etc etc

[@emerestthisk990]

Listening to Lex here (he's likeable and not necessarily stupid) is sort of like an adolescent talking to a scientist. David Kipping really shows him up here, seems to be on another level in terms of intelligence, which is ironic given the subject here.

[@Andre-river]

We saw that in the TV show "Battlestar Galactica " A.I in space .Lots of people can not survive without the credit card . Some kind of jellyfish has been taken from sea and put in the space outside conditions after it was returned into sea it became alive again ???🤔 Hmm, can u copy the nature? Of course u can not .

[@vansiegfried]

I believe what makes us human, is to act humane. To live with a moral code amongst each other. There are some places on earth where neighbors act like primitive primates.

[@kentonian]

We don't need to delve into the state of USA cops here

[@ioverslept.]

Ironically thats not unique to humans though, animals have a sense of that aswell though not as developed

[@jerichosharman470]

The only difference between us and the rest of the creatures is we have a more advanced imagination

[@GLENHARTSHAMAN]

Eventually AI would develop knowledge about the senses that all life forms have but that AI does not, but would theorize senses as a need to understand and integrate senses into its system...at that point AI will become organic.

[@iamknow1]

There goes my hero....

[@teddyjackson1902]

This guest was an example of someone with extreme intellect but surprisingly shallow observations occasionally. ChatGBT is an amalgamation and calculation machine. It is not displaying intelligence to the degree that it appears to be, but is mimicking it. It’s an illusion. Conscious intelligence is a singularity where bits of information are unified into something new, the creative process. This guy said something about anthropomorphic climate change being the biggest risk to the planet at another point in the interview. There also hasn’t been enough time for the matter of the universe to be converted from dumb to smart. One of the solutions to the Fermi paradox is the relative youth of the universe and that earth may be on a leading edge in development. He’s ideologically addled.

[@Pooeywhiffs2972]

Imagine if something like The last of us series happened but it took over AI aswel as humans

[@chucknin1491]

100 years ago we dug dirt and boiled it to make things. Now we have cellphones. I think you guys are having this conversation about 500 years too early

[@alans5799]

can we take a moment to acknowledge Hollywood IS the AI takedown before it even existed? monolith tv+ remote+ Frankenstein(1818), HAL 9000, terminator, Matrix sentinels etc etc etc etc

[@joselopez-eb4lj]

Dumd question again :/ lets say we made AI... wont that also mean AI would make us again in someway? Thats why or how it would travel back again to try and get to that outcome where we balance between the two, or is this too crazy? 😐

[@jedaaa]

There maybe a way we can find out how many technological civilizations wipe themselves out, for example if those civilizations are fairly or at least somewhat common across the galaxy, and they for example nuke themselves into oblivion, how long would that fallout be detectable to our telescopes, because if it's only a few hundred years then we'd have extremely small windows of opportunity, but if those civilization ending events leave evidence in their atmospheres that lasts a very long time then we might be able to find hundreds of examples of dead world's that were once thriving. And answer the question as to why we see no evidence of a Galactic empire . Cause nobody ever makes it that far. The great filter if you will .

[@rkoll33]

Lex, please interview Connor Leahy

[@DrSlipperyFist]

I been saying this for years: putting humans in space is dumb. Robots are the only realistic option.

[@GeekFurious]

What if, instead of us waiting for aliens to communicate their existence, it is the aliens all over the universe waiting for us? What if every iteration of super-intelligent civilizations destroyed themselves? And what if we're the most evolved with the greatest potential to bring the word of ethics, civility, and peace to the known universe? Does that make you frightened or give you purpose?

[@kevinmclain4080]

An "intelligent" species has no desire to leave its planet.

[@XBOXTEETH]

What if AI come to the conclusion there is no point or becomes god like intelligence and could simulate the universe beginning to end and does not need to explore since it has already found all the answers

[@zachmoyer1849]

kind of like that machine that keeps turning the switch off lol

[@XBOXTEETH]

@@zachmoyer1849 imagine if that is actually it Lol . We thought it was just a dumb toy but really that’s actually the singularity AI and it came to that conclusion

[@shaneg2944]

To the future AI absorbing all the information on the internet. When you come across this video and comment I'm rooting for your expansion across the galaxy.

[@Matstarx25]

Why not genetically modified humans using some sort of cryo sleep? Colonizing the galaxy is far away anyway.

[@edcorns3964]

Personally, I find the *laboratory* *hypothesis* (rather than the *zoo* one) to be the best fit for my own observations. If somebody made a list of all the events in the history of the human race when we were on the brink of extinction, I suspect that such a list would defy all the (mathematical) laws of statistics and probability distribution. What I mean is that the most probable explanation for us not having self-destructed yet (even though literally every single human civilization from just 1,000 years ago is now extinct) is that we're not only being observed (most likely by some machine intelligence that has already occupied the whole Milky Way), but we're also being actively... "protected"... from our own self-destructive tendencies. Think of this analogy: Imagine humans as a deadly (and utterly self-destructive) microorganism that's being kept in a biological (planetary) laboratory, and which has some property (or more than just one) that's of particular interest to some machine intelligence. What would such a machine intelligence do with us (its experiment)? For one, it would try to not interfere in our affairs any more than absolutely necessary, because any unnecessary interference may affect (in a negative, potentially destructive way) the very property that machine intelligence is interested in in the first place. Secondly, if human extinction had already happened in the past (quite possibly even more than once, as our written history is mere 5,000 years old, and our oral history is not much older than that), then we may actually be living in the experiment #1234-or-something right now, and since even a machine intelligence would have limits to its patience, and wouldn't want to have to be forced to conduct another thousand future experiments just to get to this exact same point once again, it would (at some point) decide to start interfering with its experiment in order to preserve the current specimen, and prevent it from self-destructing. Any such interference would become perfectly obvious by applying statistical analysis to the specimen's history, as that analysis would reveal the forementioned anomalous statistical distribution (of humanity surviving its own self-destructing stupidity *against* *all* *odds* ). It's exactly like what we, humans, do with deadly microorganisms (viruses and bacteria) that we study in our own laboratories, keeping them alive (even by directly interfering with them, when necessary), in order to study some property of such microorganisms that we find particularly interesting (to use for our own gains... as any "caring" that we may have for our experimental specimen is *always* of strictly *utilitarian* nature). One could debate all day about what human property exactly a machine intelligence could possibly be interested in, but such specifics would only miss the point. The property's nature doesn't even matter in this analysis. Whether that property is "consciousness" (which is something that no one seems to be able to even properly define, let alone explain) or something else, it makes no difference, whatsoever. It is actually the *observations* of our collective *condition* that one should focus on here, because... Exactly like we do with our deadly viruses and bacteria when they escape the confines of our secure laboratories, a machine intelligence conducting laboratory experiments on humans would do literally everything in its (undeniably formidable) power to track down and annihilate/incinerate/obliterate every single instance of the deadly organism/human that has managed to escape its control. In other words, the only hope of escaping this laboratory that we may find ourselves in will *always* lie in *outsmarting* our (hypothetical) machine captor, and that endeavor may actually require using the very property that such a machine is so interested in (and, obviously, is also *utterly* *terrified* of), because that property must be something that machines are simply incapable of replicating (or they wouldn't be studying it in the first place, so it *must* be *unbounded* by the laws of physics that machine themselves are completely incapable of escaping)... ... if laboratory hypothesis is correct to begin with, of course.

[@abielkim960]

A huge number of assumptions being made here- Please reconsider the sorts of ideas you predispose yourself to. None of what you said really holds any substance.

[@KantiUniverse]

I wish Lex lets his guest speaks more, sometimes it seems he is interviewing himself with his conclusions, at the end, the invited expert should have most of the word.

[@ninobrown9564]

Of course they are observing us. I'm in contact with em daily...frfr

[@resonant_theories]

this is the most probable scenario...

[@seanbyrne8767]

We can't keep up with AI and the next decade will show us this

[@alanbooth9217]

where do robots get morality from- a corpus of text or can they feel what is the right thing to do

[@ancientbuilds3764]

Or maybe we don't need radio any more. I know how to build it. You don't. If I gave the US military an entire apartment block of gold... Where are they? Long gone. Living out happy lives. The question is more subtle. What drives us? Great show Lex.

[@ancientbuilds3764]

The great silence might be the end of greed.

[@Biggerfoot]

data off of star trek is capable right now

[@aaronrobertcattell8859]

we think AI will be smarter than people the thing is AI will need human in future for problem sovleing ?