Heroes 3: Horn of the Abyss Adventure Skill TIERLIST!

[@garrettducat5769]

Pretty good but you need a lower tier for Eagle Eye

[@Igor369]

Year 6 of waiting Hota team to do something about it...

[@SvobodovaEva]

@@Igor369 Scholar and Eagle eye should morph into one skill.

[@Igor369]

@@SvobodovaEva It would still be bad, scholar is only good on secondary heroes, eagle eye requires you to fight... and live... I do not remember if it even works when you retreat from a fight.

[@martinkunev9911]

@@SvobodovaEva Since Eagle eye literally does nothing so this will not fix the issue. Eagle eye needs to do something more than let you learn spells to be useful, for example some chance to cast a spell (or something like give the hero two casts per round every other round). Sorcery could work if the coefficient is higher (e.g. like archery's 10/25/50%).

[@SvobodovaEva]

@@martinkunev9911 It would not fix the issue completely but at least it would get rid of one useless skill to choose from.

[@vojtechvanek1686]

It's always really nice when you get Witch's Hut with Estate, Logistics or Scouting for all your side heroes.

[@ВолодимирЛозицький]

Far better scholar with necromancy for your main )

[@DOGEreal]

It's a lot better when I get an Earth Magics from a witch hut with my main.

[@naitsirk32]

These videoes are highly entertaining, keep it going

[@geroszekeres7136]

Great content!! I remember I bought HOMM 3 The Restauration of Erathia back in 2000. I was 7 years old at that time and I was begging my mother to buy it for me due to the beauty of the CD cover. Fast forward 20 years and I still play HOMM 3 constantly. Back then I didn't know what a gem I just bought. I remember watching the trailer with awe and fear especially at that part when the Medusa petrified the Arch Mage. It gave me nightmares as a kid... But now it just fuels my constant nostalgy over this masterpiece of a game. HOMM 3 and AoE 2 defined my childhood. Thank you again for the great content. :D.

[@dicsakbuksi909]

Külön élmény, hogy ezt a kommentet egy magyartól látom :D same feels :D

[@geroszekeres7136]

@@dicsakbuksi909 köszönöm szépen a komentre. Különös élmény h kapjak egy magyar embert aki szereti ezt a játékot!!

[@MajesticDemonLord]

You should let your mum know this story and how it still means something to you

[@geroszekeres7136]

@@MajesticDemonLord I remind her almost every week about the impact these games had on me. Sadly, being a boomer she always nags me about not reading enough, not being much affected by my passion for games. However, she is mother and I will always respect her point of view.

[@manupainkiller]

@@geroszekeres7136 Your mother, being a "boomer", was quite nice to buy the game for you. My mother (both parents, actually) never conceived the idea to pay for something as trivial as "video games" or movies. My first game ever bought, was Diablo 2 LOD, in 2007, with MY lunch money from high school, saved across 2 months or something (and keeping the money-saved as secret - otherwise, she wouldn't have given me money the next day). And I bought diablo 2 because it was, and still regard as, the best game I played (along with half-life). And the fact that I wanted to play it online, "legit" way. So yea...I think your mother is a nice person, and did the right thing back then DESPITE her personal views. By the way, I'm from Romania. We love HOMM as well ! (as well as most of central/ east europe) :D

[@Nik_M11]

Love these videos Lexi ! Hope you make more. Take care !

[@dinohunter7176]

Water magic, with mass dispell, mass cure, mass bless etc is sick. I'd put on A.

[@balanrares]

Water magic is awesome, but Earth has TP, Rez, Slow, Implo which are amazing, Air has Haste, Fly and DD which are also amazing and Fire has Curse, Arma and Mass Berserk which is by far the strongest spell in the game (I just won a game of 22 Phoenixes powerstack vs 1500 Archdevil and tens of thousands of assorted demons with it). And honestly, when are you going to get a fourth Magic school in a game. But yeah for Eovacius and such it is amazeballs.

[@eriphilus2448]

Regarding Wisdom skill, I think is more than essential. Without it is like, bye bye Town Portal or any other above lvl 2 magic.

[@KyRaiden]

Yes. You put eath magic as must, but wisdom at maybe. Without it you dont have more than 1and 2 level spels. Its S top list.

[@likenot3073]

Wisdom isn't good or bad. It's okay safe skill to not feel like your hero is ruined. Slow is the best spell in game and is tier 1. For wisdom you need lot of mana, either mage guild or pandora box or scholar hero. If you get lucky and find earth tome it becomes eagle eye tier skill

[@mato3362]

you can still use the spells from scrolls or books, no?

[@cobrazax]

exactly! how is wisdom not S tier? it enables u all the BEST spells in the game, including critical control spells!!

[@andriusjanusauskas1097]

H3 hota team need just get rid of it, and made simple as in h5.

[@Murgraht]

I love those ranking videos! Cheers from Poland!

[@anthonydahl5998]

Just discovered HOTA and your channel as well. Love your expertise at the game and your explanations as well. Nice and usefull video! Thanks!

[@Janshevik]

I'd disagree water magic being below fire magic. Water magic has some nice mass spells, with a pseudo haste in prayer and cure/dispel when the opponent casts a mass debuff on your army. Mass bless also improves your damage output. High level may not be that impactful, but as you mentioned clone is good and water walk even not being the top has some uses.

[@webbowser8834]

I find that the tier 3+ water spells just aren't worth it, but might heroes really do appreciate mass bless and mass cure.

[@brianmayabella5992]

Fire magic is useful compare to Water. Contains the powerful spell, mind affecting spell (berserk), and blind. You could say is the water is the counter for fire spell. However, the spell Armageddon in the hands of dungeon, inferno or conflux is so destructive even the all the school of magic combine. The downside is it depends of what faction u use, luck of getting armageddon and it is long game play

[@Janshevik]

@@brianmayabella5992 yes, those fire spells are good, but what I had in mind is that expertise doesn't bring that dramatic of increase, while water has more relevant mass spells, where expert expertise is mandatory. Basic Forgetfulness is useless, but expert one can make some battles where you'd suffer severe losses into no loss battles.

[@webbowser8834]

@@brianmayabella5992 frankly disagree. Fire Magic doesn't actually enhance blind all that much outside of slightly reducing the MP cost, which isn't worth a skill slot. Armageddon is very strong, but it's also extremely hard to obtain. Bless and Cure on the other hand, are both extremely easy to obtain and give your army a very noticeable boost. Water also has a useful early damage spell in ice bolt, which fire magic lacks.

[@brianmayabella5992]

@@webbowser8834 thats why i said depending on your faction. Dungeon, inferno and comflux have highest roll obtaining armageddon. Also like, necro cant get bless spell in their library or inferno / dungeon rarely get prayer spell. The tier list Lexiav is not about availability, its about the ability to win games once u have it. Believe me, if i am dungeon hero and there is a roll between Water and Fire Magic, i go for Fire likewise for Castle heroes for water magic.

[@connybengtsson9304]

Amazing video! And extra cred That You explained for us not playing Hota What was nerfed and what was buffed!

[@n00bultima]

Sad that water magic wasn't one rank higher for us to get a diagonal row of magic schools. :(

[@brianmayabella5992]

True, water magic is useful to combat type faction. Generally its not that useful compare to Earth and Air.

[@webbowser8834]

Lexiav: Necromancy is A tier Also Lexiav: Skeletons are D tier

[@CthulhuAndariel]

The thing is in numbers If you had a stack of 100000 peasants and you could make them hit something they'd be impactful as well (*Republic of China intensifies*)

[@brianmayabella5992]

Its called synergy. Its useless without the other.

[@DOGEreal]

He didn't mean the numbers. He was talking about the stats, hp, dmg, speed, and how good they are in a scenario with the same army, no more, no less. 1 centaur is definitely better than 1 skeleton

[@swampsect]

Damn, HOMM 2 & 3 were my favorite games as a kid, finally decided to get homm 3 ultimate from GOG and also slapped on the HD mod & HotA and man... having such a blast. Thanks for this list btw!

[@CriminaIlyInsane]

whats great about water magic is that you can clone archangels and resurrect with them infinitely

[@DuelistFencing]

Yeah, it's not always good but it definitely has some nice use cases

[@dinohunter7176]

Yes, assuming the clone is killed after using resurrect.

[@hanschr.lauridsen8795]

I agree with most of your rankings. Especially the 4 magic schools. I've always felt that Water needed a higher damage spell (maybe a blizzard or something similar to deep freeze in homm5) to better match the other schools (meteor shower, implosion, armageddon and chain lightning). But it has some uses, such as your mention of prayer and clone. Others include teleporting hydras behind castle walls, mass cure/dispel can be OK, and on a few rare occasions mass forgetfulness can be usable

[@garyco766]

Agreed, Water is underrated, specifically for mass cure and clone (and sometimes prayer in a tough fight). I'd put it as high B tier (still not a skill you'd pick if you got to pick your top 8... or even made a top 10 list.

[@plasmahvh]

@@garyco766 in pve it is a must. or in challenge maps rather. forgetfulness / cloning archangels is a must

[@leafsfanforever2896]

Leadership is a big game changer because with Expert Leadership, your hero can have multiple faction units and not have his/her morale affected

[@balazsfenyes3880]

Nothing is more frustrating than loosing morale in a fight.

[@pawlaczek1397]

Great Vid Rytis!! Even i play Hota alot and most of it is known to me, kind of videos are really enjoyable to watch and even more when You say about Your examples like with tactics. Keep it goin

[@Rogar117]

As someone who is getting more into HoMM III again and hasn't played competitively I really enjoy and, find this kind of content valuable. It's help all the information and tid bits you share that otherwise I'd miss out on. I would like to see how you rank each hero in hota. I understand would be a lot of work. Great video, thanks for improving my knowledge of one of my all time favorite games. I'm excited to see what you rank next!

[@Eye_Exist]

i'm not saying Eagle Eye isn't a waste of skill slot, but it does have one competent use: a defender hero in a high priority town constantly attacked by the enemy, especially if its stronghold or fortress with only access to level 3 mage guild. having the eagle eye on your defender hero can rather quickly give him access to all the spells of the enemy teams, and with scholar you can pass them to your other heroes well.

[@laurens4102]

Love these tier lists! Can you do a long one for all monsters/spells?

[@AndreasVNesje]

Water magic with the correct faction is at least B tier. Expert bless on early conflux play is OP

[@cosminmihai1229]

Diplomacy can be used to take the library at level 6, you forgot to mention

[@stambe8605]

More specifically, you can take library at 8th lvl with basic Diplo, at 6th lvl with advanced Diplo and at 4th lvl with expert Diplo. Also reduces the cost of surrendering by 20/40/60%.

[@mz5805]

@@stambe8605 omg I did no know that!

[@stambe8605]

@@mz5805 :)

[@Ducky-vl7mp]

These tier lists are so fun! Do spell tier list next.

[@ericperestrelo3798]

yo lexi good shit bruh, really liked ur tier list, i would really like to see a unit tier list xd

[@robertgaudet7407]

Diplomacy is a hard skip in Hota. Their nerfs were very effective.

[@nein1336]

I personally would place Air Magic into S tier too, because it has also strong early, mid and late game spells like haste, lightning bolt or chain lightning and even dimension door and fly. AND when you play against necropolis, an expert killing undead spell could be useful too.

[@mariuscarausu9352]

I'd put Air Magic S tier and Fire/Water on A tier.You don't really want all 4 on the same hero but if you cannot get both earth and air magic on a hero ,you can easily replace them with 1 of the other 2(especially air with water)

[@worldofnorman]

Wisdom is really essential so I would not put it below S. You can't have TP (or DD or Fly or Armageddon) without wisdom (unless you have an artifact of the book of earth magic or other tome books that are rare). Maybe if you are playing with Barbarians on a medium map but in 95% of cases you need wisdom (long term) and its not even a question. The rest is pretty spot on and I really enjoy your content.

[@01gg01]

You don't need wisdom to town portal or dimension door. You can use it without wisdom... many misunderstanding. You can use it if you have a scroll without wisdom and you can use it if you have a tome of magic like tome of air magic and you can use dimension door without wisdom. You only need wisdom if you want to learn it from mage guild or something...

[@cobrazax]

@@01gg01 so there is a good chance that you wont be able to use town portal, as u must have that specific scroll, or that specific tome. its still an S tier as u cant regularly rely on that, and even then, u would miss a lot of other good spells.

[@plushysheep]

That's why he put it as "It's good when you need it" but it's not a must pick. Situational like others@@cobrazax

[@cobrazax]

@@plushysheep its super useful in almost every game, especially if u cannot reliably get the scroll or tome. ive almost never got these in my games. town portal was the best spell in the game for me, and allowed me to literally be everywhere with my main army.

[@plushysheep]

Might be a template-specific situation then. I can see your point.@@cobrazax

[@TheMelnTeam]

HOMM 5 made learning a serious consideration, still a meme in HOMM 3 :).

[@GamingDualities]

HOMM 3 with no multiplayer is a meme or do u have to have a original game for that? a lot of people don't have original game but downloaded one

[@TheMelnTeam]

@@GamingDualities I don't know the answer to your question offhand, the downloaded game from GOG can do MP though. The point of my post was actually that HOMM 5 buffed learning, you get a pretty big boost to primary stats from it in addition to its unlocks + the XP itself.

[@GamingDualities]

@@TheMelnTeam yeah it was actually quite easy. it a little challenge to find the original game tho. vas trying to torrent something...but at the end I got Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic_III_Complete_Edition__Patch_GOG then i update it with the new community mod...and voila...I was surprised when i saw multiplayer lobbies...remind me of cod days lol or battlefield heroes days discord.com/channels/526367021600997377/526431520941015088/783861461671084063 are there any other big changes...I read somewhere they removed angels? why? or was that in original update

[@pawlo669]

@@GamingDualities i have og file but its win7/8

[@badmanvip6800]

I love how you talk to your viewers like were 3 years old :D

[@GamingDualities]

hey maybe I'm. sometimes simplicity is nice

[@caseyhansen1812]

Wisdom is S-tier. You always put yourself in a position to acquire game-breaking abilities, and Town Portal/Dimension Door/Implosion/Resurrection are essential if you're playing a difficult/competitive campaign.

[@atommindproject9060]

In Wake of Gods the First Aid and Ballistics are insanely good and are GOD tier with a specialist hero who have them as a skill. :)

[@plasmahvh]

artillery also as a stronghold hero due to the commander specialty

[@atommindproject9060]

@@plasmahvh That's straight up cheating using that skill though. :D :) I ban it.

[@mvp3969]

here is why you need all magic schools. all spells are cheaper AND more effective. air: dimension door (broken), flying, haste, counterstrike, chain lightning can be brutal earth: town portal (broken) , ressurection, slow, shield, implosion water: clone (gg with Archangels), prayer, forgetfulness, bless, heal, dispell, summon boat outta nowhere fire: berserk (broken spell), blind, curse, fire shield is brutal summoning elementals for all magic schools. fortune, misfortune, mirth and sorrow also nice. even other spells i didnt mention CAN virtually all be useful, except magic mirror, which is NOT working

[@GRIMHOOD99]

You did water magic dirty.

[@ratatoskr1069]

What did I miss about the wisdom skill? Is it only essential for using the mage guilds? Or do you also need it for using higher tier spells you find on the map? Like, do you get around it by finding spell books for example?

[@jarirepo1172]

You need wisdom for level 3,4 and 5 spells. Which would make me put it into S tier for town portal etc.EDIT: Oh, but you could get those spells from tomes or scrolls so it's not always absolutely necessary.

[@TibiaOTarena]

how can Wisdom only be A? You need it for townportal, which makes earth magic kind of pointless without wisdom? (late game, mass slow is still op)

[@01gg01]

You don't need wisdom to town portal or dimension door. You can use it without wisdom... many misunderstanding. You can use it if you have a scroll without wisdom and you can use it if you have a tome of magic like tome of air magic and you can use dimension door without wisdom. You only need wisdom if you want to learn it from mage guild or something.

[@TibiaOTarena]

@@01gg01 Thank you, didn't know that!

[@fredericbouchardwong4596]

Love the points, especially on magic schools and wisdom

[@vedmaburuxova68]

I don't play multiplayer, but I've used mysticism a couple times now and it feels really good. When I develop a hero so much that he doesn't need to go to town to restock I can just let him traverse the map for ages and never run out of spell points

[@balazsfenyes3880]

In hota it's definately usable on mages, let's say you have a big battle and you are out of mana and you flew or dimensioned to explore, then you need to wait an infinity to use fly or DD or town portal again or wait 1 day to get 16 mana back which is enough for a town portal

[@jarirepo1172]

Scouting is really difficult to evaluate. It does not seem to do much, but it can save you a lot of wasted movement... and any skill granting extra movement is extremely good. While there are so many skills you want your main hero to have, that hero often does lot of spearheading into new territory as well. Hm, gotta try it out I guess. What a game, always something to experiment with...

[@Jannikjr]

Have you made a tierlist for creatures? Saw another do it, but I really like your explanations :-D

[@zp3888]

Water magic is a must if you have archangels. Expert clone and you never loose a unit. Bless and cure are also very handy.

[@DOGEreal]

Also Bless on Archangels are so OP

[@gbs5009]

@@DOGEreal Bless does doodly for them... they don't have a damage range.

[@DOGEreal]

@@gbs5009 That's the joke

[@mvp3969]

Elleshar with Intelligence specialty: Wisdom, water magic, earth magic, air magic, fire magic, intelligence are skills you ALWAYS WILL NEED. 2 slots left i think the best is to then take offense and armorer. sometimes i do think logistics and diplomacy instead of offense and armorer. what about archery? and moral and luck. necromancy. only these skills really matter. maybe pathfinding and navigation on certain maps. im totally not sure about tactics. possibly resistance also nice? estates for secondary heroes, otherwise is a wasted slott. scouting only for scout-heroes. ballistics is probably a wasted skill. the skills i didnt mention are trash.

[@dinohunter7176]

I'd put logistics on B or C. If have town portal or fly or dimension door, logistics is almost useless. Boots, gloves can compensate well against the lack of logistics.

[@florianhofmann7553]

Since the nerf in hota I too am trying to avoid logistics.

[@Webiz369]

A good, informative and an entertaining video. Would you perhaps consider doing a tier list for hero classes, heroes, spells, major/minor artefact as well?

[@bhizahr]

I value water magic with necro skelly army to teleport the skellies for the 3spell points and in sieges it's quite useful

[@piotrtoborek2442]

Those are officially called "Secondary skills" not "Adventure skills" :P (Primary skills are A, D, K, P) That said everything else is pretty accurate and this guide will be a great help for any players new to PvP. One thing to add: Diplomacy lowers the level requirement for library (2 levels per mastery), so level 4 hero with expert diplo can get sweet +2 all boost effectively doubling his early game power (even better for might heroes to increase magic skills), this is so niche though... :D Good job!

[@martinkunev9911]

Adventure skills are those secondary skills which help your hero on the adventure map. These are the skills that do not affect your units or spells during a battle. Logistics, Pathfinding, Navigation, Scouting, Diplomacy, Estates, Learning. You could probably also classify Necromancy, Scholar, Eagle eye, Mysticism and Intelligence as such.

[@piotrtoborek2442]

@@martinkunev9911 This isn't an official name though. I specified it in my comment that official name is "Secondary Skills".

[@martinkunev9911]

@@piotrtoborek2442 There is no official name for the thing described. "Secondary Skills" means something different. You can call them "Adventure Map Secondary Skills" if you prefer.

[@piotrtoborek2442]

@@martinkunev9911 This would be more accurate, indeed. Calling them "adventure skills" is also acceptable as long as everyone know what You mean exactly.

[@ungrimironfist5740]

I really like Leadership, especially together with Luck. How cool isn't it to get to move again, and then also get luck on the second go? Sometimes you get double move with luck on both as well. Really good on might heroes. Of course I'd prefer Pendant of Courage, but you can't depend on finding that. I don't like Leadership or Luck so much on their own, but by stacking them together, they make eachother even more effective.

[@Draregkoeliekalie]

I remember an rampart campaign where i had both on max. It was beautiful indeed

[@akselallas5583]

Do you know of "HotA Magic and Skills Balance Mod". There is an idea of moving Ressurection to water magic. Nerfing meteor shower, and buffing fireball + inferno for aoe damage. IMO these changes would be good for balancing schools of magic.

[@Lexiav]

Yea, these would make them more fair. But in my opinion its more fun for them to be unbalanced as they are, whenever you get to win with fire/magic it feels really rewarding, and earth being busted after 20+ years feels like a core piece of the game. Much like angel being the most overpowered, cost effective unit is also a core part of the game. So i like changes that don't mess with the identity of the game too much like the mysticism number buff. I think heroes 3 is carried a lot by the Nostalgia and making the game different would go much against it.

[@Lexiav]

Ah, so in the end i did not hear of the "HotA Magic and Skills Balance Mod" but in the end it doesn't sound interesting to me personally.

[@hommhommhomm]

Balance is not always what is wanted. Imagine balancing all units. How do you make choices then, if imp and angel are as good as gryphon and halfling? Part of the game is that some things are better than others.

[@endyourway8751]

@@hommhommhomm u dont understand what balance means. It should be that everything can be usable with a similar probability of winning, that is, to be closely effective, this does not mean that a t1 is as powerful as a t7.

[@hommhommhomm]

@@endyourway8751 Fair point but it's a bit more complicated than that. For example, towns are balanced against each other because player chooses a town. That's why it's not needed to balance each level 1 creature (e.g. imp being as effective as centaur). With heroes and secondary skills, everyone is picking from pretty much the same pool. I can get barbarian playing castle and that barbarian can get artillery, the same way knights do. So just because artillery sucks doesn't mean anything has to be changed, everyone has access to everything. Imagine that earth is level 7 creature and luck is level 2 creature. Now it would be problem if knights have bad chance to get e.g. earth and that makes the castle weak. But castle is not weak, it's great. The main balance problem is if some towns are never played, in that sense maybe inferno needs help. Worst skills could still be buffed, like learning.

[@TheYostera]

Lexiav, you're awesome always :p

[@crimsonlightbinder]

resurrection is not the only way keep ALL your units. Clone a powerstack of archangels and they will resurrect a whole lot more than expert resurrection. Clone makes water magic relevant. Also, bias towards archery is like, wtf? you literally have a crappy tier 3 spell which does exactly the same thing

[@happyfeet3386]

Why is wisdom not essential? You need it for townportal right?

[@mineman2142]

picked up 240 master genies last night with diplomacy. it was like week 3

[@thebbcjoke]

I really don't understand your hatred of Water Magic. An expert level Cure is game-changing, not to ignore Bless, Prayer, Forgetfulness, Teleport and Clone.

[@averagelizard2489]

I would swap Luck with Water Magic. The reason why he doesn't like Water is probably because the other schools of magic are just better. Bless, Teleport, and Clone are the only good Water spells, Prayer is meh, sometimes it's good, it's a worse version of Haste basically, Forgetfulness is never used no matter how cool the concept is. Bless doesn't need Water Magics to be good, and in most cases neither Teleport does, in many situations Teleport doesn't need it either.

[@siphirath84]

100% Agree with you on the scouting. I use to ignore it when I was younger. Now I target items with it and I can see so much more with just basic scouting. It wins games by giving you way more information. Love witch huts with it. All delivery heroes pick it up.

[@aleksandar5323]

Luck is very useful for low-attack units and/or high defence enemies. You get a 12.5% chance for a +100% base damage hit. If you spec for defence only then you can wait for luck and destroy your enemy while they do very little damage to you :)

[@TheSpiritedFendron]

updated tier-list for the complete edition?

[@balanrares]

What's a complete edition? This is with the last Hota patch ... this came about 20 years after The Complete Edition ...

[@TheSpiritedFendron]

@@balanrares for people that play the CE, since it's the better version, so an "updated tier-list" is used correctly here

[@abradusthalas2793]

Great vid, but I would like to see maybe in another vid on how would you fix/improve the lower skills to make them more viable. It could be an interesting discussion.

[@nemlas85]

wait, Wisdom is only A tier? then how will you use Town portal for your S tier Earth magic ? or Resurrection? or even Animate Dead? or Dimension door from the Air pack? or Armageddon with AntiMagic? or any remotely useful level 3+ spell? I mean, it is not exciting skill. it is just necessary, more important to have than anything.

[@mariuscarausu9352]

I agree it should be S tier,but if you get an earth tome(or town portal scroll+ ressurection/animate dead scroll) and either an air tome,a wizard hat,angel wings,scroll with dim door/fly or on some maps levitating boots or water tome will do.

[@blackwidow7804]

Diplo is solid S tier. Whenever you get it you win. And water skill is better than fire skill becouse arma or blind is still powerfull without it. Its only curse and berserk which benefit a lot from fire skill. However a lot of water magic spells are greatly enhanced with water skill.

[@cl8804]

Honestly these ruskis have no fucking idea what they're doing half of the time, which is sadge. Keep fucking resistance and turn it into "Reduces the power level of all [including monsters'] spells used against the hero in combat by 10%, 20% and 30%, respectively (reduces spell power by at least 1 unless it is already 1). No - let's just ruin the game like we ruined the Pikeman skin for no fucking reason!

[@Alex-ez1lk]

Nitpicking here but I would consider Logistics S-tier, a must-have on all my heroes. Your performance (final score) is ultimately determined by how many days it takes you to finish the game, and as you continue to master the game, you became more and more ambitious--wanting to finish it in the fewest moves possible. Wisdom--also S-tier, no Wisdom no Town Portal, Implosion, Resurrect, Berserk, Fly... the best spells in the game. For Navigation, I would consider it a C-level skill only worthy of a secondary or tertiary hero, especially considering that most water maps have one or more lighthouses that compensate for lack of Navigation skill.

[@woutervisser876]

Artillery and Ballistics should be combined in 1 skill to make it more interesting, maybe even add in first aid

[@daviddesgagne]

Yes, I also mentionned that fact once. These 3 should be combined in one for correct value.

[@cobrazax]

i always take ballistics as it makes sieges way easier, at least for any army without MANY ranged or fliers.

[@stephen7690]

Wait so both heroes don't need scholar to trade spells between each other? It just requires on hero knowing it?

[@balanrares]

Yes. ofc,

[@VASM160689]

Interesting tier list! Although I disagree with the placement of water magic as its strong spells are game changing in my opinion. Bless, cure, clone, forgetfullness and prayer, as well as water walk outside of combat, can be very powerful in their own right. And prayer is offense/armorer/haste spell all in one.

[@brianmayabella5992]

I pick water depending on faction the same as fire magic. Its not really reliable if you are Necro, inferno, or dungeon. do you know why?

[@DOGEreal]

I think mysticism should be higher. It was a game changer for me because there was no magic well and i only had 50 mana in total with my wizard and no army at all.

[@ROLKISSSSSS]

I would not be placing armor on the top of the tier. Was fun to watch all that. Did not expect that :D Great video! :)

[@robertgaudet7407]

Armorer is good on an armorer specialist... in which case they start with it. Otherwise I'm pretty much with you. It's really clutch when it does make the difference between losing a tier seven and not but... logistics or tactics or earth magic would work that slot much harder.

[@mariuscarausu9352]

@@robertgaudet7407 Vampires with armorer and offense are just fin ruthless.You'll struggle to lose them

[@taotaozhang4568]

Does diplo only work if your army is already much bigger than the wild camp? I. E. can you get a side hero up to Expert Diplo but walk around with only 1 pikeman and still grab armies?

[@slim-op8bi]

About wisdom, I understand your reasoning. But early in the video, you talk about how unmissable town portal and dimension door are. By that standard, however boring, wisdom is S tier.

[@teodosy]

Is not Wisdom mandatory for every single hero? You cannot cast the good stuff without it.

[@NeblogaiLT]

I play SoD vs AI with house rules, and one of the rules is autocombat with magic vs neutrals. So in my case- wisdom is not that useful, because AI then often casts some poor higher tier spell, instead of good cheap lvl1 buffs. And even bigger risk is having expert wisdom, and accidentally learning 'summon elemental' spells- then AI only casts summoning everytime, draining all mana, and not casting useful spells, which ruins the hero..:)

[@teodosy]

@@NeblogaiLT, I understand that, but it is a very bizarre scenario. Usually, you will do whatever you can to get Wisdom.

[@Tibor0803]

I think combining Interference with Resistance skills together against mage heroes is actually a real powerhouse especially if you obtain other magic blocking artifacts.

[@Lightning_Lance]

Can you ever get them both? Doesn't Resistance replace Interference if you enable it?

[@brianmayabella5992]

This is good for combat type faction and also rampart which is their forte.

[@BaileyFox1818]

Personally I love using Water Magic and Clone alongside Archangels. Then again, I'm a casual

[@naruchan1010]

Nice video, keep 'em coming! I made a guessing game out of that and guessed mostly right - yay! :D I only would have thought Water Magic and Wisdom would be a bit higher. (Wisdom cause you kinda need it for Town Portal or DD, when you don't have a scroll.) Have a good one. :)

[@cobrazax]

only wisdom seems critical here. water magic doesnt really do much.

[@naruchan1010]

@@cobrazax Depends on the map you play. I'm currently addicted to the Maelstrom Map and Visions, Clone and Waterwalk are extremely useful.

[@cobrazax]

@@naruchan1010 Are these in the base game? Not sure i got those...

[@naruchan1010]

@@cobrazax No, the Maelstrom Scenario is in the Horn of the Abyss Addon.

[@babasemka]

Oh, and btw, the Offense skill does not affect shooters. Just so everybody knows. + Defense is trumping Offense. By a small margin, but still.

[@martinblake2278]

Love your videos bro but Prayer and Clone are only C tier? If you are able to cast the first, it's like haste + bless + stone skin. A cloned Archangel means, no army losses and high tier unit deletion. A cloned Pitlord means more troops. A cloned Titan is almost gg. Also the ff: Cure, Bless, Summon Boat, Dispel, Weakness, Vision, Forgetfullness, Teleport, and Water Walk? Water has more utility than Fire.

[@mariuscarausu9352]

They're both pretty even to me tbf.Fire has Berserk,armagheddon and blind while water has cure/dispel,clone prayer and forgetfulness

[@mariuscarausu9352]

@Maluga You need it for Berserk,on the other hand,as the enemy you need water to deal with it most likely.

[@Lightning_Lance]

Shouldn't Navigation be top of A tier, or even low S tier. You can only get it on water maps now, right? So whenever it gets offered, that means it's a water map. In which case, it's probably more useful than Logistics? (unless there's only a little bit of water)

[@awesomemccoolname7111]

Expert cure and expert prayer should put water magic in B tier, imho. Also, expert dispell detonates all the landmines on a tower town, which is super cool and useful since your units will literally walk through 3 or 4 of them if you aren't careful. Edit: Also, Loynis is my favorite hero, so I'm a tad biased, lol.

[@DOGEreal]

You will never ever use dispell to clear land mines, it can sometimes win games if opponent has ogrefist but couldn't find the anti-dispell orb, also opponent can't stack up buffs which is also pretty good. Prayer is a worse version of haste, if people ever cast prayer it's because Haste is removed because it's extremely good and makes the game miles easier, Loynis has such a cool speciality, unfortunately it's on a hero that rolls bad skills and starts with a dead skill.

[@awesomemccoolname7111]

@𝗗𝗢𝗚𝗘 I will admit that learning sucks ass. It can be useful if you want to rush early game but overall it's terrible. His other skills aren't that bad though, I reliably get earth, air, and water with him. Pathfinder and logistics are common too.

[@cobrazax]

prayer doesnt seem to do much honestly... haste seems to just be better in most cases. and u dont need water magic for it.

[@awesomemccoolname7111]

@cobrazax your second point is valid. water magic takes up a slot and with the exception of expert cure and prayer is not the best magic skill. However to your first point, prayer is amazing over the course of a game. The buff to defense and offense coupled with the speed boost means that 50 turns in your stacks are far better preserved.

[@cobrazax]

@@awesomemccoolname7111 Is the buff the same as expert bloodlust and stoneskin?

[@Vincrand]

Gotta say that the choice between Eagle Eye and First Aid isn't one I want to make, but have to :(.

[@taytertot9382]

Very curious how you might restructure this if we were looking at purely the base game?

[@jakistam1000]

For all skills changed in HotA, you mentioned the change... except Scouting. So: in SoD, Scouting gives +1/+2/+3 scouting radius. In HotA, it's +1/+3/+5.

[@Lexiav]

Yea! Good notice. I almost never played SoD at a high PvP level so i'm not fully aware of all these diffences i guess. Thanks for mentioning! I'll know from now on :D

[@Parasmunt]

My list in order from best downwards Wisdom, Earth, Logistics, Offence, Necromancy, intelligence, Air, Armory = my perfect 8

[@TISZALAEGERSZEG]

I think apart from the final battle, current Misticism is two tiers above current Intelligence and I would pick it every time. But yeah, factoring the end fight in INT might be better

[@martinkunev9911]

I'd switch scouting and water magic.

[@milat9287]

Under certain circumstances that were possible in the past, Resistance woulda easily been one of the best skills in the game, simply because if you get enough exp with Thorgrim, get him the Amulet of Resistance, and Expert Resistance, you'd eventually become pretty much immune to magic.

[@msxwindx3238]

Why Estates is C, it's more like B imo. Perfect skill for not-main hero

[@vodkavecz]

If Artillery and Ballistics was combined, do you think it'd make it a top pick contender?

[@josephvanwyk2088]

Yeah, first list I agree with you. Town Portal game breaker hahah. I have played big maps and NO TOWN had town portal or scrolls lying around. The agony. Still won, just took forever. Scouting for me is A tier along with Logistics.

[@yifuhood]

water magic counter other schools of magics 　cure, dispel, forgetfulness. amazing defense magic for might heroes with mostly might skills

[@Juhi118]

I know I am late to the conversation, but can the developers consider to buff some under powered secondary skills like they did with WoG version way back? For example they buffed Eagle Eye as to discover a random spell each level up, depending on skill level (Basic: up to spell lvl 2, Adv: up to spell lvl 3, Expert: up to spell lvl 4).

[@admiraltonydawning3847]

For a reason to pick up Leadership just watch the final battle in the "20IQ v 30IQ" video by TheKnownWorld.

[@balazsfenyes3880]

In Hota Resistance is replaced by Interference making it more useful against heroes. Wisdom should be in S, without wisdom there is no town portal, dd or armageddon. Town portal is essential on bigger maps.

[@Rimmer7]

You can get spells like Town Portal without Wisdom through scrolls and tomes. And you usually have poor-man's Town Portal available unless the scenario doesn't allow you to lose your hero.

[@Neon_Noir]

Putting archery in A tier? Considering it only effects a small portion of your army and that portion usually gets picked off first I find it kind of a waste. That and its faction dependent as I wouldn't use it for certain factions at all because their are limited or not that good, I'd put it low B maybe high C.

[@Lexiav]

The thing is, in almost any late game scenario you will have a cyclops stack, and also the numerical value on archery is completely busted. 50% damage is Actually insane. This super high value pushes this skill to a very high level despite it not always being usable. And ofcourse pickets existing also makes it far more valuable.

[@Neon_Noir]

@@Lexiav oh yeah, Hota. I was gonna say I'd get it if I had a cyclops power stack, but in a non-Hota game that be can be hard to come by.

[@Retrowaveresearch]

keep it up buddy u are awesome i might not agree with everything but u are far more knowledgeable than i am.

[@tomasplanicka2539]

I never pick tactics... because it is such a pain in the ass to use it :D

[@ivannikolov8194]

I have to disagree with you saying water magic is as bad as it is. I mainly play fortress and having expert water magic with teleport can make wonders with MGs and CHs :). Also mass dispel, cure, bless and prayer make up for not having slow and haste. While I agree with it not being able to compete with earth and air magic it's not too farther below than fire magic imo :)

[@SarielSol]

Why the hate on water magic? Archangels with clone is my favorite tactic. You go very fast beating everything with no losses. Besides that, you have mass cure, mass bless, teleport and forgetfulness. It is much better than fire. Blind and Armageddon work well enough without specializing, making beserk the only spell for fire.

[@DjoleBravo]

Nothing beats expert earth for slow and town portal and logistics. Edit: Wisdom is a must on the main hero ofc.

[@damianstasinski6378]

Did you know the expert patchfinding reduces the cost of diagonally from 141 to 100 with ???

[@Lexiav]

It doesn't xD

[@caseyhansen1812]

I used to disregard water magic, but expert clone and prayer can break the game in the late game. I guess that depends on what your level 7 units are, but certainly with archangels it is insane.

[@stuartbailey5985]

So by logic, if earth magic is s tier meaning you can't live without it, and this is predominantly for 3 spells, tp, resurrection, and implosion, all which are tier 4 or above meaning they require wisdom, then wisdom must too be s tier as without it you can't really use earth magic at all outside of slow...

[@DOGEreal]

You can use higher tier spells without Wisdom. It annoys so much that people think that you can't use T4/T3/T5 spells without Wisdom, I guess it's the games fault for not mentioning it. Most of the time you get higher tier spells from Scrolls or Tomes, and you do not need wisdom to use Implosion, Town Portal, or anything if you have scrolls or tomes.

[@BaSsFrEaK04]

It’s tough to create ranking, because at some points, you can give the sec. skill a massiv boost. Necro, e.g., in combination with the cloak of the undead King defintely is S. You can turn any creature into a skeleton and sacrafice them to get an army of Power Liches;) OC you must be lucky to get the 3 artefacts.. I mostly agree, but I‘d put Water to B, when you have Castle, because Clone is OP with Archangels^^

[@MaegnasMw]

Let's be clear here, no banned skill should have a place on any tier so Diplomacy should be Omega tier or below!

[@MaegnasMw]

Dimension Door, Fly, Town Portal, Ressurection, Summon Elemental (ANY type), Meteor Shower, Implosion, Armageddon are level 1 or 2 spells in HotA?? If yes, then yes, Wisdom does not do anything for you.