LGR - Experiencing The IBM PCjr Chiclet Keyboard

I always wondered how much the original IBM PCjr's keyboard actually sucked. Now I know.
Just a quickly-made video to show the original "Chiclet-style" keyboard for IBM's failed home PC, the PC jr. Retro computing sadists unite!

[@raydeen2k]

We had a combo of Tandy clones and PCjr's in my high school computer class. The classic prank was to wait until the person sitting directly in front of you was distracted whilst eyeballing their code print out. During those brief seconds, you'd raise your keyboard up and aim it at their machine and just blast random characters into their code. Or if you were really clever and a good typist, you'd imbed some 'easter eggs' into their code that they wouldn't notice until they ran their program. ;) The chiclet keyboard was probably cheaper to produce so it was probably seen as a money saving compromise for a system that just didn't take off like IBM thought it would.

[@LGR]

@MAMECADE No problem, thank you for watching! It's such an odd and interesting little machine, I'm only happy to be able to own one and keep its tainted memory alive. Charlie Chaplin's "Tramp" would be a great addition though, I'll give you that!

[@TheTurnipKing]

I'm going to guess the reasoning behind it probably was cost reduction. One of the reasons the Beeb and Electron were relatively expensive was their keyboard, but they were designed to take a hammering, which is important in an educational setting. With the PCjr being so expensive in general though, I'm guessing they were trying to reduce the cost everyplace they could, and with competing systems having relatively cheap keyboards, they thought "well, we can get away with cost-cutting here, too".

[@musikba]

I used to have a PCjr as a kid. Fortunately it came with the later keyboard and not the "Chiclet" one.

[@LGR]

@vwestlife Yes, I finally heard the "dead flesh" term when I got to talking to overseas owners of the thing when I got mine. I had always seen it listed as a Chiclet keyboard (on Wikipedia and random computer websites) but when I got this PCjr keyboard I was like "now THIS is a Chiclet keyboard!", as it really does feel like Chiclet gum.

[@jimothysparkcus]

I like how my VHS collection from circa 1994-1997 is randomly hanging out in the background.

[@LGR]

@vwestlife That's probably the issue. During any kind of real typing it was beeping at me, as well as gameplay in Round 42 at the end, when I tried to press 2 buttons at once. You could also see this happening when I was using both keyboards at once and was pressing two keys at once, one on each keyboard. And yes, Electron review will be not this next video but the next, the last weekend of January!

[@fountaincap]

Isn't it ironic that while IBM made this piece of crap, they also made what is arguably the best keyboard ever (the Model M)?

[@IvanBoskovic808]

Model F is better

[@fountaincap]

If they could make a Model M layout with Model F capacitive switches, that would be the ultimate keyboard!

[@IvanBoskovic808]

Yeah i agree

[@TAVIII]

The Model F is clearly superior and the Beam Spring boards are better than even those.

[@jasondoe2596]

fountainhead, *no* it's not "ironic" - that's not what "irony" is.

[@Billy2600]

I have a sudden urge to watch MIB, The Blues Brothers, Jurassic Park, and Aliens

[@LGR]

I got the PCjr version of 2.1 from a fellow collector. It should work with any DOS version up to v3.3 just fine, but the PCjr version is ideal. I have an image of the disk if you need it, just email me.

[@LGR]

Where it plugs in is a proprietary port, it's not a phone jack/RJ-11/14.

[@LGR]

Nope, they don't use the same connection or wiring.

[@johneygd]

I think the chicklit type keyboard just feel more like a damaged keyboard due weird psysical mechanics inside. Where you have press pixel perfect on the key's to get response out of it,such type keyboards are the last ones you ever want to use in your life.

[@LGR]

I have used both. Have you used a PCjr keyboard for any length of time? What I said should make a bit more sense then, because it's quite a different experience. The PCjr's keys are a lot taller and stiffer than any calculator I've used.

[@LGR]

@xargos This isn't a standard key layout, so it makes it more of a pain than it should be. Even once you figure that out, you will never want to get used to touch typing because of the way the keys work (or rather, don't work). I am well aware of non-marked keyboards to teach touch typing. I'm a touch typer myself. It's fine on a keyboard that has keys that allow for touch typing, but try one of these and you'll see why this makes unmarked keys an even bigger issue.

[@TheRamblingG]

These old Computers always make me think of the Kurt Russel version of the thing. Remember how he got mad at the computer beating him at chess and dumped his drink into the computer. Lol Damn cheaters lol

[@LGR]

@Aeduo Considering this is a video about the PCjr's original keyboard design, and not a demonstration of my naturally-superior fingering capabilities, I fail to see how that is relevant.

[@imeakdo7]

a lot of aio pcs now come with cheap keyboards that feel cheap and have next to no tactile response, are quiet and fells like typing on a chewing gum...

[@defosh369]

Seriously, how needs modern day keyboard technology ;P I just exchanged my black, compact keyboard and got my hands on a old keyboard. Which will be my new keyboard from now on. My God is it satisfying to use and type stuff. It's massive, it's clunky, feels almost indestructible, buttons are huge and they got this nice "click" to them. Sure enough, buttons have this classic white and grey look, and I'd had to use an additional adapter to actually connect it to my PS/2 port. It is great though.

[@LGR]

@mbbrutman At a technical level they're the same, quite correct. But that's one of the biggest things that can possibly matter with a keyboard, and while it's not completely unusable it's just impressively awkward until you're used to it. I do like how it was a forerunner of the FN key. What's awful is, from a gamer's standpoint, games that use F1-10 for common controls. The FN key is no good then. And of course, I'm stating this for the benefit of others not necessarily you, Master Brutman :D

[@SazanD1]

So fun to see how much your videos have improved since this. Still fun to watch in 2018 tho, but your new shit just keeps getting better. Wish you did a LOT more odware, those are my favorites :D

[@MAMECADE]

Hey Clint, That was awesome. Thanks for showcasing PCjr peripherals. A real blast from the past. One request though, could you dress up like Charlie Chaplin on the next video to really capture PCjr nostalgia. Keep rockin dude!

[@dwgustaf]

Wow! A working PCjr! That was actually the second computer I ever owned. First one was a TI-99 4A. Those IR keyboards were the reason why every computer I've purchased since has always had a wired keyboard. You pretty much had to be right in front of the computer to use them and if you were working on a book report when the batteries died, you were pretty screwed if you didn't have spares available.

[@heinrichgrobler2645]

i want old pc's so bad but it to expensive to inport to South Africa

[@vwestlife]

@phreakindee The ZX Spectrum's rubbery keys are more properly known as "dead flesh". "Chiclet" keys are made of hard plastic.

[@LGR]

@pWnaniX They're actually all three movies on VHS, but yeah big JP fan and have been ever since I saw the first one as a wee lad! That was one of those "holy crap, this is what movies should be" moments...

[@amaruqlonewolf3350]

Given how precise and finnicky the infrared is with this one, I doubt if someone else could take over somebody's computer in a classroom. The actual surprise would be if they were able to actually type on their own.

[@mbbrutman]

From a technical standpoint, the first and second revision keyboards are identical - the key travel, spacing, resistance, etc. are the same. All that changed was the shape of the keys. When you consider the trickery that went into the BIOS programming to allow the machine to emulate the original PC keyboard at the BIOS level with 21 less keys, it is a wonderful achievement. Today you can find netbooks using the same 'FN' key trick that the PCjr pioneered 28 years ago. That's not so bad.

[@noice8985]

I've never seen a video of a crt without scan lines before this!

[@LGR]

@SovietWookie1 Sadly no Amstrad stuff. At least, not yet! I'd love to get a CPC of some kind.

[@LGR]

@UKRetroGames Yes, I very dared and I very well may not have been fair about it but hey. It's the only other "chilet-style" keyboard I own so it gets compared! :P Oh and the Elk not having dedicated function keys I can deal with, since I've not really run across anything that uses them for regular buttons, like firing in games. The PC used the function keys extensively because of how they were laid out on the keyboard on the far left, and the jr suffers due to that.

[@mista1two]

Great video! I love keyboards and I love chiclets but the two just don't go together very well. I always wondered how hardware that bad gets through testing and inspection without someone saying, "Hey wait a minute. This absolutely blows!" Thanks for taking the time to upload so many great vids!

[@LGR]

@hanksranger Thanks dude, happy to entertain! I'll go ahead and check out your stuff, looks like you've got quite the variety of video content.

[@mbbrutman]

@Ruinah That PCjr has a Racore PC keyboard adapter and an original IBM PC keyboard, hence the clickiness. The PC keyboard is easier to use because the layout is more standard than the PCjr keyboard. With the correct keyboard I can have a full extended keyboard on that machine which is a real treat.

[@blendernoob64]

Thumbnail makes it look like Clint is just grossed out by touching the dang keyboard

[@LGR]

It’s still off-putting all these years later

[@LGR]

@mocthezuma Yup, that is MIB on VHS.

[@newcoleco]

I've programmed in BASIC, BASICA and also GWBASIC with an IBMjr... it was a long time ago and the sound of the 5"1/4 drive feels nostalgia, like if I've coded a game for IBMjr yesterday.

[@LGR]

@yushatak Dang dude, that sounds rad! I'd certainly like to see it, whenever you may get around to doing so!

[@LGR]

@SteveBenway I do wonder how similar it is to the PCjr. Both the Oric-1 and Speccy are often listed as having Chiclet keys, but the Speccy does not, IMO, actually have them. Calling those "dead flesh" makes sense, while the PCjr actually feels like Chiclets. Looking at photos, the Oric-1 seems to be closer to the jr than the Spectrum.

[@LGR]

@SNK038 Ha, it sucks on both, severely. If I had to choose, I guess I'd go with the Spectrum for being "easier" but that's totally up for debate.

[@C.Q.Q]

What will those who experienced about this keyboard at the time think about if they're told that chiclet keyboard will dominate the world 30 years afterward.. although it is different type of chiclet keyboard.

[@vwestlife]

Is it beeping because it thinks you're pressing too many keys at the same time? Because touch typists do not completely release one key before pressing the next, normal PC keyboards allow "rollover", which accomodates this overlap and keeps track of which order the keys were pressed. But since the PCjr "chiclet" keyboard was not designed for touch typing, maybe it does not allow rollover. An electronic key click (like Atari computers) would help a lot, too. p.s. Acorn Electron review soon??

[@MasticinaAkicta]

Oooh the world of terrible keyboards. Ouch the pain the pain! Never had to deal with more then the old IBM keyboard, remember that one so big and heavy with springy keys.. almost as if it was a type machine!

[@MoreDakka101]

wow that brings back memories. I never owned the weird chiclet looking keyboard but I did use it a few times.

[@LGR]

@Ajanek Quite interesting stuff indeed! It would be even cooler if it worked with any kind of reliability, hehe.

[@GTXDash]

12:45 XD I do that also when I can't find the controls for a game.

[@niceandgames]

This is awesome, I remember seeing that chiclet keyboard in ads wondering what the deal was. It's like a solution to a problem no one was having. Regular keyboards didn't need a redesign like that! lol But I like the ability to have keyboard overlays, just like the Mattel Aquarius! That wasn't sarcasm, the overlays are cool. :)

[@pubesz]

Thank you for reviewing it, so we all can avoid it like the plague.

[@LGR]

@yushatak Hmm, I'll have to try that one out. Also a constant Model M user, so yeah :D

[@ZyllAvatar]

These keyboards were given away when they were selling the pcjr with the later keyboards. I found this keboard that came with our pcjr many years later in my father's closet. I think he was saving it in case the other one broke.

[@Ruinah]

I love that one of the related "suggestion" videos next to this is a video demonstrating an IRC client running on a PCjr in PC-DOS 5.0. I wonder which keyboard they were using. :D

[@MasticinaAkicta]

@GreatNorthWeb That indeed was quite the special keyboard. Still good memories but no speed typing possible on that thing. Not with that deep stroke! Happy our modern keyboards are so smooth and easy to handle. Even this one on my laptop.

[@GreatNorthWeb]

@masticina that keyboard was so heavy and dangerous that many states now require a 2 week waiting period and a background check before purchasing.

[@kiko_meeko]

You may think this is kind of silly, but will an RJ11 to USB adapter cable allow you to use the non-chicklet PCJr keyboard on a modern computer? Thanks!

[@Lachlant1984]

Bluetooth keyboards have the advantage that they must be paired with a host device to prevent the kind of scenarios and problems you demonstrated in this video, of course Bluetooth technology wasn't even around in the 80's. My iMac came with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, but I don't use them for one of the same reasons you don't like the PC Jr keyboards, they use batteries that I don't want to replace all the time, so I'm just using the standard Apple USB keyboard and mouse.

[@The-Nil-By-Mouth]

Your video appeared in my stream after Dave Jones did the tear-down of the PCjr. Even that photo-bombing Acorn Electron had a better keyboard on it.

[@SonicTheJackrabbit]

@SonicTheJackrabbit BTW, that PC speaker beep sounds like the select beep from the SMB/Duck Hunt NES cart. XP

[@ibkuzz301]

The thumbnail feels oddly cursed

[@danmanx2]

Wow. That keyboard looked terrible.....

[@AllGamingStarred]

that CRT is intimidating

[@offensivejerk]

I see you got that chiclet board on eBay, but how much if you don't mind me asking? I just picked up a PCJR that came with the second revision keyboard, but it's wonky due to battery corrosion. I kinda fixed it, but still having issues.

[@MuscarV2]

Man, it's such a gorgeous keyboard though, really sucks that it's so bad.

[@bryede]

Boy, Tandy did the Jr so much better.

[@Caseytify]

Tandy got it right.

[@kinmanyuen]

omg only looking at it makes me feel it kinda sticks even if you lift up your finger... or pressing on the edge of a key at an angle it wont go down

[@tom611]

I'm surprised that Round 42 works on your PCjr, it doesn't on mine. Though, mine has the Racore second floppy drive upgrade stacked on top and 640KB of RAM, so that may break some things. I got to avoid using using either PCjr keyboard on mine because I had an adapter box (also Racore I think) that let me plug in XT keyboards to the back.

[@oj43085]

I never knew wireless keyboards existed way back then!

[@retroguy4616]

In high school we considered its keyboard the cheapest thing ever made.

[@HighTreason610]

It may be bad, but I reckon a lot of those modern deformed PC Keyboards are just as bad if not worse, at least back in the 80's with this thing they kind of had an excuse.

[@AmyraCarter]

Ick, what a nasty keyboard...

[@MusicIan423]

They look like keys from really old calculators, like ones my grandparents had.

[@captainexcabier]

I imagine keyboards like that were made more for people who didn't know how to properly type yet.

[@toymachine4253]

captainexcabier Kind of what I was thinking, if they enforce proper form. Of course, I don't know if that's actually the case or just hopeful thinking.

[@benflashman7320]

This video was uploaded on my birthday :D

[@nathanfield8789]

Compared to the ABC keyboard which would you say is worse?

[@cbdrummer19]

the keyboard does look weird but i wonder how many people know that the current keyboard we use was made to make people type slower

[@Case_]

I know this is an old comment, but can't help it...if you mean QWERTY, then it wasn't designed to make people type slower, that's a weird myth that is going around for some reason. It was actually made to type faster - the way the letters were arranged before QWERTY would, if people tried typing fast, lead to frequent jamming of the keys. QWERTY was invented to avoid these jams as much as possible, in turn allowing people to type faster.

[@toymachine4253]

Martin Fiala It's a different way of looking at the same result. Before qwerty, people could press the keys they wanted faster, which caused the mechanism to jam. Making people reach farther for the common keys meant it took longer for their fingers to hit the keys to type out a message, but the machine was able to keep up, which saved time in the long run.

[@Case_]

It's not a different way of looking at the same result. Saying "QWERTY was designed to make people type slower" is very different from saying "QWERTY was designed to make people not jam the keys as often". There's no actual correlation between theoretical speed of typing and jamming the keys. On a mechanical typewriter, you can jam the keys fairly easily even if you actually type quite slow (and I'd expect it to be even easier with the typewriters from the era QWERTY was born). Nothing in the design of QWERTY was decided with "slowing down typing" in mind - even if we ignore the jamming of the keys as the primary reason for the creation of QWERTY, it offers several design features that clearly improve on typing speed by design, such as placing the most used keys further apart, which is a proven way to increase typing speed. The keyboard layouts that were used before QWERTY were not optimized better for fast typing, even if you ignore the possibility of jamming the keys. QWERTY is not perfect either, but it is acceptable.

[@SNK038]

Is it easier to type on this keyboard or the actual rubber keyboards like on the Sinclair ZX Spectrum?

[@VinnieBlackLodge]

prolly why businesses didnt buy many of them back then either.

[@tsskiller08]

Another keyboard I wasn't fond of was the stock keyboards from the LC Pizza Box Macs. I would bet a lot of people will agree with me that the latest batch of HP low end systems come with probably the worst keyboards of this generation (it makes me wonder how companies can work with these kinds of keyboards).

[@mcFreaki]

i love my new keyboard, it's a proper gaming keyboard and everything. i can imagine that keyboard being the polar opposite of the one i've got, because this one is awesome.

[@mbbrutman]

@phreakindee No doubt - the layout is a tremendous problem. Hence my using a PC 5150 keyboard on my PCjr, which is a minor crime. Want to see evidence of a design struggle in the PCjr BIOS? Bring up the diagnostics sometime and try to figure out why they have keyboard diagnostics for both the 62 key PCjr keyboard an an 83 key PC style keyboard. Yes, that's burned into the ROMs from the factory. :-) Keep up the good work ..

[@MagikGimp]

A keyboard for each hand! Now why didn't I think of that? Probably because it sucks.

[@yourgeekneeds]

I haven't seen a wireless keyboard that old

[@mocthezuma]

Do you have MIB in VHS? Or is that something else over on the right side of the monitor?

[@archiethedog4515]

I own a Topre Realforce and IBM Model M (1988) keyboard so I know the pleasures of typing heaven. I need to get a Cherry MX keyboard to add to my collection. Anyone have any suggestions what brand I should get? I have my eye on browns fyi.

[@archiethedog4515]

Sheldetin I actually have a couple ALPS keyboards. I want a blue ALPS one but they sell for so damn much.

[@archiethedog4515]

Sheldetin Just wanted to let you know I just snagged a complicated BLUE Alps SKCM Switches keyboard for $100. www.ebay.com/itm/Working-Monterey-K101-Vintage-Keyboard-REAL-complicated-BLUE-Alps-SKCM-Switches-/152053514138?nma=true&si=pCFRqoyPLhLkiPObLHJGIlm3lZw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[@PhilippMaierTelevision]

No function keys, like my new lenovo laptop at work ;-(

[@ChoboUnjeon]

So it's like membrane keyboard, isn't it?

[@kargaroc386]

and now we know why the PCjr bombed

[@hobocamptheater]

I think the problem that you were having with the angles and everything is the keys are too small. you know, they're about as big as chicklet gum tablets (ha, tablets... pebbles).

[@stonent]

I do in fact have it on good authority that this keyboard will give you cancer of the fingers if you write a term paper on it.

[@cbayer5012]

White noise, my favorite.

[@Hardts]

It's good this, you're making my complaints about infuriating old crap seem relevant. Hah but you know - I never even knew what the 'home keys' where - just looked down at my keyboard and discovered little knobs on F and J. Well what do you know... I never even knew we had IR keyboards once - I imagine the nerds worst night mare (the sun) is going to be even worse once it shines directly on your pc and starts communicating..

[@josephchacon72]

I have the second version pcjr keyboard. I have a cable. Do you know how I can get it to work on a modern pc?

[@xnamkcor]

Build an IR receiver and program a driver?

[@gamersafterglow]

@SteveBenway Just watched your vectrex video then came here, and here you are. lol

[@P5ychoFox]

Cool, that's the board for me! I only type one fingered :)

[@richardlapa44]

im going to ask a question again, do you know where to find a good one of theses at a fair price?

[@hobocamptheater]

@SonicTheJackrabbit too bad the revision wasn't much better as stated by phreakindee (plastic on silly puddy).

[@edwinchenoweth4251]

You should review the IBM model m.

[@JonnyInfinite]

I had no idea Chiclet keys came from gum....

[@AlyxxTheRat]

I have no idea how they thought pressing gum was better than pressing actual keys...

[@tinyNinja3]

Alexandria Thorne Ask the people who swear by the mac keyboards that.

[@Jodie842]

@yushatak I have a macally Icekey which was incredibly hard to get. I hate the keyboards Apple ship with their machines now!

[@destroy141]

@phreakindee yes i agree