Guitar intonation problems at lower frets and how to troubleshoot and fix them

My old Ibanez RG 470 FMR developed some weird intonation and action issues after upgrading the bridge to an original Floyd Rose and replacing the nut. The notes at the lower frets 1-7 were all sharp so I set out to troubleshoot and fix this problem. The solution was to remove some wood from the fretboard allowing the nut to sit lower.

[@caseykittel]

2:18 pressing on notes on the bench like that will also show slightly sharp. take any guitar that you tune in playing position and then lay it on the bench and check the tuning. I think you get better results doing your final intonation while in playing position and being careful to not push or pull on the neck when fretting

[@1976oswald]

i have the same problem on a guitar that i'm building, nice ibanez guitar by the way. i used to have a jackson with floyd rose in 1998, great guitars !!! :) keep on rocking bro.!!!

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Don't mention guitar building! I'm failing miserably with a build myself at the moment, but you'll hear more about that in one of my next episodes of 'The IdiotCaster' build lol

[@0Rumpy]

Thank you it, took me weeks to find a video like this!!!! AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Haha, glad you found it!

[@rodrigocamargo8400]

Nice video , man. Thank you. My Carvin DC400 has a great sound but the notes are sharp on the first frets just as you described. I wish we had some adjustable nut, like the ones I've seen in Warwick basses. Each groove is a screw, so you can set them up individually.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

I agree. Once set up though, you don't need to touch it again so adjustable nuts would probably be overkill.

[@sophiarodriguez1861]

Thank you!!!

[@rockyleonmusic]

blew my mind when you turned the guitar over and the back of the neck has a music store from vienna, where i live, written on it. so random! xD

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Wow, that's amazing! I bought this guitar in that store back in 1997. I wonder if it still exists? Haven't been there in a while.

[@giantessmaria]

This is a very common problem and extremely frustrating to try to remedy. My tele has the problem and seems most pronounces on the bass strings, 2nd and 3rd frets. so you can play a open D chord and sound perfectly in tune, but then switch to an open C and it sounds WAY out! I'm using 09's(ernie ball super slinky) and have it set at medium action. the nut is fine and all parts are standard with the guitar. Not sure why this happens, but i seem to have had this issue on many guitars to varying degrees through out my life. Was wondering if a truss rod adjustment may help? i may try that after i try different gauge strings and raising the action. Frustrating as HELL! Thanks for the insight my friend and good luck to you.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Truss rod adjustment is not likely to help with intonation problems but worth a try. Be careful though not to damage anything. I have destroyed a neck before by over-doing it.

[@owakulukem]

Just FYI, on a Floyd Rose (or similar) tremolo you shouldn't raise or lower the bridge height without taking the tension off. It can wear and cause a flat spot on the blades that rests on the posts making it so that it won't come back to in tune after moving the tremolo.

[@richwilson3767]

Haha that makes me feel old. I know. Me too bro. Btw. I just bought a esp Ltd LP style. I tuned it and G chord is fine. Then I play D chord. And horrible. The G and B string is very sharp. Is this fixable with a set up ? Inotation ?? Will that help ? Also the low E buzzes. I paid decent money for it. Brand new. Thank you.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

I've had a brand new Ltd before that I had to return because the high E string was off the fretboard at the 12'th fret and higher so I wouldn't rely on their factory setup too much. The low E buzz sounds like either the action is too low or it had a terrible fret job and one of the frets is too high. Are the G and B strings sharp everywhere or only the 2'nd/3rd frets? What about 12'th fret? If they gradually become sharper/flatter as you go up the neck, it's likely incorrectly intonated. Hope this helps, let me know how you got on!

[@01left]

is the distance 0.06mm at your feeler gauge?

[@markusaurelius777]

Great tutorial video mate! you made me laugh at some of the things you said, (You have a really good sense of British humour), LOL !!! Congrats on the job you did as well. Cheers!

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Thanks mate, I've lived in Britain for about 15 years and I think I'm finally starting to assimilate lol

[@albertn872]

I'm confused about wether I have an intonation problem or not on my lsd with Floyd rose, when I do the 12 fret check it seems in tune, however if I go above the 12 fret and do a perfect 4th on the high E and B strings it sounds more dissonant the higher I go.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

What does the tuner say on those frets on the high E and B? It also could be that you're pressing down too hard on those 4ths

[@Dave.F0x]

I have two guitars with this problem. Both have very low string action. One has a low nut, so that's not the cause of the problem. My other one has a zero fret, so the nut is not the issue. I was wondering if a string gauge of 10 instead of 9 may fix the pitch. What do you think?

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Not sure if thicker strings are going to fix that but doesn't hurt to try it I guess. What condition are your frets in? Worn frets could be another culprit.

[@Dave.F0x]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL Frets not worn. Both guitars have been this way since new. I'll try a set of 10s and let you know if it improves intonation.

[@Cautionary_Tale_Harris]

@@Dave.F0x I replaced my G string with a heavier string and it made the issue 'better' but it didn't fix it.

[@hangman289]

good job dude but you can sanding your locking nut. because if you do someting wrong (too much sanding for example) you have the chance to get replace the nut.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Good idea. I'll try that next time, however I'm a bit worried about the nut rusting if I sand off the coating. Could be wrong though.

[@yrrahyrrah]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL I've been sanding my plastic nuts to fit higher gauge strings and that works well at least

[@vladv5126]

It's a good thing you've got that Star Wars ruler, it's legitimately the only kind that works.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Absolutely! Wouldn't use anything else. :D

[@riichan2895]

in my case is that its only the g string From open to around 5tg fret that sounds sharp, how do i fix it?

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

hmm, that sounds wierd. Is it fixed bridge or floyd? If it's only one string then I would say it's intonation. Try playing with the bridge saddles.

[@riichan2895]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL i dont have floyd rose, but the higher frets sounds alright

[@musicshallsetyoufree6253]

Hi Oliver, my issue is just the opposite. The higher frets starting from 17th to 24th fret are off on my guitar. Any possible solution to it?

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Have they always been like that? If intonation and action is correct, it could also mean that the frets are screwed/ installed wrong in the factory.

[@musicshallsetyoufree6253]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL so do i need to refret them?

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

@@musicshallsetyoufree6253 Not necessarily, hard to say without seeing it. What's the action like up there?

[@musicshallsetyoufree6253]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL It is not to high or low

[@TTSetters]

Unfortunately, I went through this as well. I have a harley benton double cut sg custom and I changed out the bridge and nut with graphtech nuts. The first part is to take new nut and match height to old one. Then, you have to look at the radius of the nut slots. I found that graphtech runs a tiny bit on the high side for the d g b strings and as a result, playing an E maj results in the G string being sharp, even though it's perfect on 12th fret and intonated (not sharp nor flat). The challenge is patience, you have to loosen that one string, move it over, then take a nut file (or folded sandpaper with a sharp edge) and take off a tiny bit a time, retune and test. It took me about a dozen tries on each string to get it right. Too much and you have to raise the whole nut and start over again, but this time with all the strings as you just raised it. Sounds fun right? The bridge is another challenge altogether. I spent a few days after work unstringing, restringing, adjusting saddles, height, and everything else. Just so it can be out of balance and the nut needs yet more adjusting. A constant back and forth. Last night I got my sg in order mostly, and most fretted notes are where they should be.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

I feel your pain, but it's part of the fun! Glad your SG is set up now.

[@TTSetters]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL I thought it was. I filed the G string too low, so had to buy another nut and start over. Waiting for it to ship. Bridge is good though. Flippable bridge saddles really help giving some extra distance to intonate.

[@bcain5823]

I have the exact same problem with my Gibson SG. It's an early 70s vintage and I had a problem with the A string buzzing. Discovered the 'A' position nut groove was worn due to round wound string grinding it down over time. Like you, I replaced it with a Graphtech nut. I noticed with a tuner the 'G' string in particular is always sharp when pressing the first fret, but you have to be careful and not to press too hard. I was thinking of doing the same thing as you and file down the G groove but don't want to screw it up. Let me know how it goes with your new nut.

[@TTSetters]

@@bcain5823 It's fine now! So with the nut, you have to take a file that's same gauge as string and literally go ONE PASS to sand it. I just loosen string and move it to the side, put it back and tune up. I did that around 12 times and it's still sharp 5 cents, but it was 11 cents prior. I just don't press as hard and it's fine. Also, if I use a capo on 1st fret, they are perfect then.

[@bcain5823]

@@TTSetters That's good to know. I think I have mine fixed as well. At first I tried using a 'D' round wound string I took off my acoustic as a file. Seemed like a good idea at first but didn't budge much of the material. I don't have the proper luthier file but do have a small triangular file that worked. I did not take much material at all and was able to improve both my G and D intonation on my SG. Like you, it's not perfect but close enough. Just don't want to take the chance of taking too much off.

[@makruwn]

I couldn't even tune a guitar with floyd rose

[@laszlojambrik3989]

Esküggy!

[@tedtedsen269]

if you like intonation problems play 5 string banjo they go out of tune while you are playing even my 4tousan usd deering i tune and play at the same time

[@caseykittel]

here's a weird question. my intonation is set perfect for notes played up to the 12th fret everything above the 12th fret is flat as fuck. are the frets in the wrong place? it is, after all, an epiphone LP special, but come on man - really?

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

Hmm, could be. Depending on their method of cutting the fret slots I don't think it's very likely that all frets higher than 12 are in the wrong place. The bridge could also be in the wrong place. Try measuring your scale length from the nut to the bridge where the strings touch the steele. If your scale length for example is 25.5 inches (647.7 mm) your bridge should be exactly that far from your nut. If that matches, use an online fret calculator and you can measure each fret and verify whether it's in the correct place. Hope this helps! I know it's frustrating.

[@caseykittel]

@@OliverLukacs-XXL yes. Thank you. So I looked at the stewmac fret calculator for 24.75 gibson. Frets seems to be accurately placed all the up, but the nut is a about .025” toward the headstock. It looks like the end of the fretboard was cut a little uneven which is keeping the nut from sitting where it should. Here’s where it gets really weird. According to the KZbin video by David Collins “guitar intonation physics” - says compensated nuts make the upper fretted notes sharp. He has a chapter on compensated nuts and one chapter on side effects. However, my upper fretted notes are flat - the opposite of what’s he’s reporting. Thank you for the reply! I have a new nut. I just want to make sure I place it correctly.

[@charlieruffell4635]

Where abouts on a guitar do you locate an open ‘C’ 🤣

[@Damaged7]

C standard or Drop C.

[@vladv5126]

You must be new at this, there's more than one way to tune a guitar, not just grandpa E standard.

[@OliverLukacs-XXL]

@@vladv5126 :D

[@dlewtweentorla1210]

@@vladv5126 Guess I could say the same about you, but not that rude. Intonating the guitar in drop "C" may be the problem all its own. Guitar was designed for standard tuning in "E". Always best to intonate in standard tuning as that's what it was deisnged for . C has a very slack string tension, therefore one gets the "close enough" when intonating. To get the better result tune back up to E, Intonate then drop to desired tuning. WIll end up being more precise. Part of the reason being, a Drop tuning increases tension on the other non dropped strings, once again causing some tuning issues. Contrary to the theory of using a heavier guage string, try a lighter guage on the E string (perhaps another A string ) the tension won't be so loose and may help the tuning stability of all strings.

[@markusaurelius777]

@@dlewtweentorla1210 Actually one half step is even better, which resonates better than standard tuning. :D

[@Fogertian]

Do you know how to intonate your electric/acoustic guitar with a deformation degree concept applied ? Well, you are already near than you think. Firstly, let's be clear with this wrong idea that is in our heads always: "My guitar now is in tune. I got the best tuner in the market !!!". Wrong!. Even piano makers know the intonation is NOT perfect. Some notes need to be more sharp (or flat) than others in order to get a "perfect" piano tuned. The fact is that the real world tuning that makes sense is made by a perfect "out of tune" system. Some notes are near to the pure note by fractions than others. One fine example is given at the first frets of any guitar. There's too much tension applied at this point because strings are near to the nut and the action is too high (ex. acoustic guitar). Have you heard a perfect Am chord .... but you get a sour Em chord on the first frets?. Tension is even greater with wounded strings at this point. Try to play for 3 or 5 minutes an F Major chord. Your strength in your fingers decreases and that chord start to sound like is not a complete F Maj chord anymore. Some strings ring and others are muted. The concept of deformation degree applied on a string is related to it's gauge. The greater is the gauge, the greater is the tension at the first frets. It's harder to track the strenght you apply on wounded strings. Check your guitar is in tune with your electronic tuner. Now play a G note on the 6th string/3rd fret. Check on your tuner how this G note goes sharp as you play soft or hard. Apply little pressure until you hit a perfect G note. It's noticeable !!!! Knowing this lead us to the conclusion that open strings notes are not good for tuning because these notes have ZERO deformation degree applied. The best way to keep tension lower in a practical manner when you are tuning your instrument is to "relocate" the nut to get a low deformation degree at the wounded strings. It' s a logic step you need to be aware of: -Tune every string as usual at the 12th fret harmonics, then fret notes at the 12 fret, and check open string notes. -Execute some wide bends slowly at the 12 fret and the 7 fret on every string jumping from one string to another for about 3 minutes. -Now, at the 7th fret/6th string , tune to B slowly. -Next, 7th fret/5th string, tune to E slowly. -Shift to 6th fret/4rth string, tune to Ab slowly. -6th fret/3rd string, tune to C# slowly. -Shift again to 5th fret/ 2nd string, tune to E slowly. -5th fret/1rst string, tune to A slowly. -Repeat wide bends and tune again the same way until you don't need to tune after bends. This way you got the perfect balance, tension vs. string gauge/lenght in every string. Your guitar NOW is "out of tune/in tune" by fractional notes at the right point on the fretboard with the lowest deformation degree when You fret notes. Want to check how open notes are "in tune/out of tune" making chords sound sweet ? Play a cowboy G Maj chord an pay attention on the G note on the 3rd fret/6th string. Every note now is in a relocated harmonized-pitch due to the tension applied/wounded strings (Gauge) relationship. Ask the pros about it. Check Earvana nut, Buzz Feiten System, Guitars with fan fretboard. This relocated spot tuning procedure [Virtual Nut With Balanced Gauge/Tension Tuning] works wonders on cheap acoustic guitars. One final word: Have you noticed how hard is to record an acoustic guitar that You think is in tune? And what about when you use a wide capo?. Goes Sharp enough to make things worse? "Devil is on details" , said the guy that showed me to tune my acoustic guitar to the song's key .... every time I record a song. (?!?!). Well, all that hell of "learning to deal with an acoustic guitar" is now .... in the past ! You're welcome ! Cheers.