LiftFoils vs Fliteboard: Who’s Dominating the eFoil Market in 2024?

[@amann1231]

Personally, not my favorite style of message delivery, but damn, content of the message is 100% point; well-done! I sincerely hope Lift hears and listens to your message!

[@VerdantRide]

What is your favorite style of message delivery?

[@RafaelGarcia-uz1we]

@@VerdantRide lol, not sure what he means by that, he is watching your channel after all.

[@teakseller]

the glasses, the rbf, the demanding, complaining style. its hard to watch. Such a know it all style. The points are good. the delivery is horrible.

[@VerdantRide]

@@teakseller The glasses? You are stuck on my fugg'n choice in eyewear and then think MY style is "complaining?" And a resting-bitch-face? I don't think you know what RBF means. I'm pretty freak'n expressive as far as a presenter goes and if there truly is a scale on the spectrum of unexpressive and overly expressive, I usually ping closer to the right. Either way, my face, is my face and if you don't like it, I don't think that I can do much to change it at this point in my career as a human being on Planet Earth. I don't know what you are comparing my show to exactly but as far as production value and topic handling goes, I don't think I can make you happy and you might be better-off watching another show. Not sure what show will do it for you, but I know, I'll never be interested in even attempting to make someone like you happy with my content.

[@NMBowhntr]

We have been riding two Flite Pro boards on 30” masts with a variety of wings all season. The Flite Controller design is actually genius. It disappears in your hand because you keep the trigger pulled with the base of the index finger like you’re making an “ok” gesture 👌. Then if you want to play around with feathering, you bump up a few gears faster than you want to go and just feather the trigger like normal. Best of both worlds. And I charge mine for an hour about once a month or every ten to 15 rides, and they are still charged above the 50% level. And a $5 camera float strap from Amazon and guess what? They float! Having used both, Flite wins hands down. Lift is just so big and clunky feeling. My opinion is the more the technology disappears so you can get lost in the flow, the better, and Flite Controller in general is superior in that respect. Our first lessons were on Lifts, , and man, I’m glad we didn’t buy that brand. The porposing because of the motor location is so annoying. Everything about the Flite feels higher quality. I mean, a titanium case on the battery, with a BMS on all versions of batteries, not just V4? Battery tech alone makes Flite a brand you really need to investigate. As far as the service, I have a boat shop in Mew Mexico I can take my mast to for service, so that’s a non-issue. Really like the guys at Lift. I’ve never met them, but they seem so cool. But so do the guys in Byron Bay, and sorry, their design is just better. First definitely isn’t the same as best. I’ve seen it in other industries, and seems to be true in this one, too. Best of luck to both companies, competition is healthy, and at the end of the day, getting out on the board and riding is what’s important. Enjoy what you’re riding!

[@VerdantRide]

Are you comparing the Flite Pro to a Lift Pro or a different model? I ask because everything I ride larger than a Pro seems clunky, this includes the standard (classic) Fliteboard I took for a spin last year.

[@NMBowhntr]

@@VerdantRide I believe any larger board will feel clunky. And I’m not as familiar with the designations of size with Lift, but yes, we ride Flite Pro’s, and honestly, have considered adding an Ultra for down the road because we love the hard turns, and as you know, swing weight matters. My son rode the 4’9” Lift and liked it fine. I think the Flite Ultra L2 with a folding prop and long carbon mast would be incredible in the surf, weighs under 40lbs with a Nano battery! There’s a video on KZbin of an expert riding it in the surf at Byron Bay for 1 1/2 hours and only using 50% of the Nano battery. It’s my favorite Fliteboard video ever! Check it out sometime and see if you don’t want to go on vacation to Byron Bay. Or move there.🤣

[@ck7846]

⁠@@NMBowhntryup I have the L2/MN wave mast, Nano Battery and 850 HA wing and it rips unpowered in the Surf. I get about 5 - 7km unpowered every session.

[@foilride9115]

The difference for a beginner on a short mast is that there is less nose lift when trying to get on foil. Once trying to maintain constant height on foil the reduction in drag for a student reduces the severity of nose dip as they feather the throttle. It makes the first steps much easier but as you say it's pretty subtle. I would not teach on a 32.

[@VerdantRide]

I've not found this to be true after 4 years of teaching people to ride. I now only outfit my boards with taller masts and the training has only gotten easier for everyone involved.

[@foilride9115]

That’s our take on this, 5 years and many hundreds of students, my team of 8 instructors are unamimous.

[@VerdantRide]

@@foilride9115 I can't endorse a private purchaser to invest in the 28" mast. If there is an advantage to newbies, which I still haven't found to be the reality, they'll only stay newbies for a couple of weeks after which time everything about the 28" mast is a disadvantage. Wanna change one thing about the setup and see a massive improvement and enjoyment in the ride? The taller mast is the key upgrade.

[@NeilSeaver]

For me the #1 point is the placement of the motor on the mast. I’m getting to the level where I am breaching the propeller on angled carves because I’m always trying to carve harder. I will probably ride Lift for another 2 years until my brand new 4’2 warranty runs out and decide if I want to jump ship to the Flite ultra L2.

[@VerdantRide]

You might want to check out my next show before buying anything.

[@NeilSeaver]

@@VerdantRide i will waiting until next year to see if Lift releases anything new. Can’t ride that much during the winter anyway so no reason to buy anything right now

[@carlmast7642]

Every successful startup that I'm familiar with has / had great customer service. I love my LIft 4 + ride daily, but am stunned but the abject lack customer service. No replies on their website or phone. Hope they make it - I love foiling.

[@VerdantRide]

When did you last contact them? I know they are a bit slow with first response but once in the system they resolve issues pretty quickly in my experience. Keep us updated.

[@carlmast7642]

Been a few weeks now. I’m still using the loaner battery and bought a lite battery as well.

[@VerdantRide]

@@carlmast7642 You bought a lite battery? Can you still return it? Even Lift seems to have realized they were a shit idea.

[@carlmast7642]

Yes - I have a full range and a Lite battery. Works well for me.

[@ScarBear828]

Now that you’ve ridden the 32 glide more do you think you will stick with that or go back to 36? I mentioned in your other video I have a 46 and 32, they are vastly different. 32 goes faster but 46 turns much better IMO. Wondering if worth getting a 36 glide also or if it’s similar enough to 32 and I should look at a flow or carve… that is my biggest con for lift is trying to figure out the difference between wings before buying. I would have never gotten a 38 surf. Customer service has been great though. I have a battery that is slightly too thick so hatch doesn’t seal. They got me a taller hatch seal tape within 3 days to my door from the day I reached out.

[@VerdantRide]

I love my 36 Glide. It is very very smooth and my favorite pair with both the 160 Camber Pro and 100 Surf V2 specifically for freestyle carving. I have learned to control the 32 Glide (seriously gonna start calling it the "32 S-Glide") and when paired with my 100 Surf V2, I'm nailing the course much tighter and faster than any other wing combo I've tried. So I rank the combos as A. 160 CamberPro/36Glide = Highest G-Force deep banking carves (most smooth and consistent high-speed carves but must maintain momentum due to high drag of the camber) B. 100 SurfV2/36Glide = Most fun and versatile freestyle carver (allows for more variation of speed and maneuvers than all other combos) C. 100SufV2/32S-Glide = Most technically accurate at high speed slalom maneuvers (very digital banking, very limited operable speed tolerance, dropping below about 15mph results in stall, so only useful for racing) These findings are only my own observations based on my riding style, body weight, gravitation forces on my like, etc.Duh! You have a battery that doesn't fit in your freak'n board??? WTF??? - I don't understand. All their batteries are standard size are they not?

[@ScarBear828]

@@VerdantRideapparently they had some batteries come out a few mm to tall. So it hits the top of the hatch when closing and doesn’t allow a proper seal. They gave me 2 options - 1- a new battery or 2- a new seal. In order to get a new battery I would have to show them me exposing of old one by removing gasket and dunking in water. So I went with the new seal that is slightly taller. I haven’t installed it yet as instead I put 1/16in foam tape on the hatch and it now has been bone dry last few rides. Weird issue but they were really quick to respond and get a solution. They already had this taller seal tape (it’s barely taller maybe 1/32in) and said it is a known manufacturing issue that happens sometimes. So anytime someone says their hatch is getting a lot of water see if they are getting battery marks on the hatch lid from pressing into the battery. That’s where I found out my issue. Thanks for the feedback on the wings really appreciate it! 😊

[@VerdantRide]

@@ScarBear828 Whoa! I would have demanded a new battery. That type of manufacturing defect just isn't acceptable.

[@NeilSeaver]

@@VerdantRideactually he is right about a battery not fitting. I’m friends with a local Lift affiliate that I ride with. I have a brand new 4’2 board and one of his older batteries does not fit in my board. It fits in my 4’9 board, but not my 4’2. The battery is slightly too thick to fit under the plastic piece at the bottom of the board that keeps the battery from bouncing

[@VerdantRide]

@@NeilSeaver Weird.

[@RafaelGarcia-uz1we]

Dude, besides a lot of the good points you bring up, I totally agree about the LOGO, it's horrible. looks like a really bad tattoo. Design wise, it's just not professional. And you are right, people WILL buy or NOT buy just based on perception, aesthetics and pure looks. Look at APPLE, everything about their products look and feel like how the FUTURE should be, they are artistically beautiful. Lift has a good name, probably as good or better than flite. but their logo looks like a friend of the owner drew it on a napkin while smoking weed and he really liked it and decided that that would be the final logo. Just a really bad decision that unfortunately they have to live for a long time, it's not too late for a redesign but they can never take back that horrible logo that looks like a tramp stamp. I think you are being very nice to tell them these things to their face, I hope they listen to you.

[@SurferBobbyLew]

Totally agree it’s like they don’t even care or want it. They nailed it with the basic controller got the more expensive one and hate the throttle but used it because I feel like I have to I spent money on it haha. Love their logo wouldn’t dwell too much on that people’s views on beauty is varied and at this point they can’t change because it’s association with their brand which is what you want. It looks like this video was meant for LIFT so I’ll piggy back my message to them is release the darn battery LED fault code guide! Why so guarded it makes me hate you for it? It’s so simple release it make it available! Everything else you have done in the past has been in such good faith to your customers. You generosity and support is literally legendary but some of us don’t want you to give us free stuff without knowing what the actual issue is ourselves!! I want you guys to win and I don’t want to always cost you if I can figure out myself!

[@VerdantRide]

Branding can always be changed. They could also brand their eFoil lines separately from their Foilboards, and their company in general. Logos can be changed at the will of the company and if properly launched, it can be done successfully. Most companies update their branding with reasonable regularity to remain current. If you make a logo that could be confused with a mega-church, it can be off-putting to those who may wish to communicate to others, "I'm into this awesome emerging sport and this is the brand I ride, but don't want to be confused for a religious zealot." Their font is the cursive version of Comic Sans and it reeks of all the signs associated with an immature designer. This logo needs to change and it isn't a matter of opinion, it is a matter of putting it in front of a focus group and finding out if it helps promote or confuse the product identity and company values. The Lift logo lacks cool, and cool is needed if you want your customer base to promote your brand.

[@SurferBobbyLew]

@@VerdantRide I concede you are right but the Brand Logo is the least important factor to me but maybe im biased because I actually like the logo? Id rather focus on all the other points and specifically a lime green innovation instead of a v5 isnt going to cut it against Fliteboards pace and apparent hunger in this space.

[@VerdantRide]

@@SurferBobbyLew I'm good enough at multi-tasking to handle multiple topics simultaneously. The logo is one of the things that matter and if it didn't matter, companies wouldn't spend 10s of thousands of dollars designing and ensuring they are aligned across all business channels. I don't know what you are referencing when you say, "v5/lime green…" As far as I can tell, there is no v5 in any color.

[@SurferBobbyLew]

@@VerdantRide I know you are an incredible multitasker but was hoping could align focus the message to the recipient Lift that does not have infinite resources multi tasking and ability to equally do everything perfectly like yourself. I love their logo, and hate flites, but it meant so little to me that I simply wanted to concede this trivial aspect relative to the other principal factors you brought up that will bring down Lift. Otherwise we are arguing about very subjective tastes that arent that important to kicking ass, and ripping it up and actually having a great experience with the product. Also YES the v5 does not exist it was again facetious, sarcasm at Lifts recent major announcement of a lime green board (v4) instead of a v5 to keep pace with Flite. I have been playfully referring to it as a v5. Points we can all agree on: 1) Lift continues their legendary reputation of good faith which means when you F up you own it always. Be totally transparent with customers this includes point in your video if valid and my person want release the troubleshoot codes!! 2) Better marketing examples of their product uses. The highlight for me isnt walking down to the beach carrying it as you pointed out. Sponsor local events at major lakes. Im the efoiler on Lake Allatoona, im repping for you Lift everyday in every conservation daily on the water for free because I believe in you and want you to succeed. It would great if you could sponsor some local events or help me do that for you. Right now I literally give lessons for free to interested people because humans are awesome! 3) You either need to keep pace with flite from an innovation perspective or you need to take the v4 and make it bulletproof. Id buy a model T over newer and shinier if I knew it was bulletproof and trouble free forever. Maybe do both would be even better.

[@VerdantRide]

@@SurferBobbyLew Sounds good to me. Still, I'll probably keep tell them to get a new logo.

[@foilride9115]

Are you just considering the profiles of the Glides? I think that you are missing the main difference which is how they effect rear foot placement; the Surf offers more rear foot pressure for harder carves whereas the Glide has a lower angles of attack which offers better glide when used in combo with HA wings

[@VerdantRide]

I think you are missing the point of my initial reaction, which is, Lift does a bad job of naming, describing and taking photos of their products so that buyers know what they are buying. The performance of the 32 Glide is fantastic, perfect pairing with my 100 SV2, but what I wanted and thought I was buying was a 36 Glide with 32" of surface area. You can make the argument that it doesn't matter that if their site causes buyer confusion if you can somehow explain the benefit of having confused buyers.

[@barnabasseadog7660]

It's already happening. I want to get into efoils. Clearly Lift and Flightboard are the leaders. I know it all started with Lift and Fliteboard later entering the market with an emphasis on Efoil safety and the entire experience. I just pulled the trigger on an Fliteboard Air Pro for under $8K. New setup with warranty for a used price. Flite is innovating more and expanding the sport in every direction at the expense of Lift.

[@VerdantRide]

They get rid of their unreasonable maintenance requirement and they might just crush it.

[@rainusvideos457]

Hi Stephan Love your videos! I am still in evaluation process to buy a board. I agree with most of your points!

[@VerdantRide]

Glad you like them!

[@kyleoem]

I've been wondering what Cody from "Sister Wives" show has been doing since filming ended.

[@VerdantRide]

Your comment is lost on me. I have zero knowledge of reality programming because me too smart to watch unscripted programming.

[@kyleoem]

I like the depth of detail & experience with the ride and product knowledge. Who did you ride with in PR? Looking for a demo/multi day ride.

[@VerdantRide]

@@kyleoem I rode Dale's boards many times and I also rode some demos provided by Lift. I spent a day on Crashboat Beach with a whole bunch of Midwest Sales reps. If you are looking for a fantastic and knowledgeable guy to rent boards from, check with Dale prsurfadventures.com/who-we-are

[@mikestephens4589]

Somehow I thought u rode FlighBoard?? Anyways if u have both Lift & Fb, I would love to see a comparison review. Tnx for your great videos & insight.

[@VerdantRide]

Nope… Always been on Lift. I too would like to make a direct comparison with comparable models.

[@Rocketpax]

My understanding is the Fliteboard service requirement is for 100 hours. The mast gets sent in by itself. I think without the prop and guard is ok as well. It can also be serviced by Flite service centers. I believe the service cost is around $200USD. Not nearly the burden you describe in this video but it’s not nothing either. I believe most of the service centers around checking the health of the motor and gearbox(Lift does not have a gearbox). My biggest problem is that they do not make the servicing instructions, parts, or tools readily available which I hate. In fact the authorized service centers make a big stink about how the training to perform the service is covered under NDA and other bullshit. I bought a Fliteboard Air Pro anyway so hopefully that posture changes.

[@VerdantRide]

For me, this service schedule is unsustainable. I can't be sending in my board for overhaul @ $200 every 33.3 days. A - I don't want the pain in the butt of dealing with it. B - I don't want to be without my board while it's getting overhauled that often. C - I don't want to spend that much money keeping my board running that often.

[@YourLockerzPal]

I need a Verdant Ride sticker for my rig

[@VerdantRide]

On it. What's your favorite print on demand company? I'll set up some shirts and stickers and stuff!

[@JKW1962]

@@VerdantRideI’d be in for a Verdant Ride shirt when you get a merch shop going.

[@VerdantRide]

@@JKW1962 Ok. I'll get to work on selecting a PoD service for some merch.

[@SurferBobbyLew]

This aged terribly…. LIFT just announced the new Lift v5 board!!! …….Aka as v4 in lime green. RIP Lift will rock my v2, v3 and v4 until all components fail in a couple years

[@SurferBobbyLew]

facetious ;-)

[@VerdantRide]

@@SurferBobbyLew Figured that out but it took me a beat or two to do that. :D

[@perdidomar]

I actually think Lifts emblem is Awesome! I'm not a big fan of Fliteboards. One other thing too is that riding a Fliteboard is loud like riding a skill saw.

[@VerdantRide]

I swear I'm having trouble detecting sarcasm. I know you must be being facetious. I've ridden Fliteboards. I thought they were pretty quiet. Maybe not as quite as my Lift4 Pro, but certainly no saw, skilled or not. Are you a shill? I'm only asking because nobody who admits to liking the Lift logo can be truly unbiased.

[@RafaelGarcia-uz1we]

​@@VerdantRide Lift Logo just looks cheap and tacky and disagree about the loudness of flite board, to me they are not as loud as a skill saw and actually the noise is not a problem at all for me. But to each their own, I think if you are from Puerto Rico you probably have some loyalty to lift and I can understand that.

[@perdidomar]

@@VerdantRide Okay Okay, I'm definitely not a shill but I really want to see Lift come out on top. I'm addicted to efoiling and when on, their setup is amazing. The Fliteboard I rode was very loud maybe it was due to a service issue or something I don't know. I do like Lifts logo though. Their outstanding customer service is the reason I'm staying with them for now. I also agree about the trigger. I ride without the governor and like the feather ability.

[@VerdantRide]

@@perdidomar At least on the Fliteboards I've ridden, they didn't at all seem loud. They have a slightly higher pitched whine than Lift that is very hard to hear once the wind starts blowing past your years. I'm sure that the sound is very different depending on what propulsion method you use, board size, and wing and other factors so maybe that is why we had such different experiences. I guess I don't care who comes out on top. I think there's room for both companies to compete with each other. Right now I'm mostly worried that interest in eFoiling will start to drop off before it has a chance to mature. We're the early adopters. We're the guys who get it well before the companies figured out how to position their product for mass appeal. If it doesn't take off this could go the way of the Amiga, the Wetbike, or the Beta Cassette

[@_JustinChait_]

I can 100% tell you for certain you do not need to mail in your board for warranty. If you’re in a location without a service center Flite will train and provide parts. Also definitely important that a certified person works on the efoil. A lot of small details that can cause issues. Also the trigger is long and from personal experience super dialed. There’s light rider mode for small rider who need a softer trigger pull. Also there’s a clock on the controller and sooo many other features. Let’s chat about your next Flite and make sure you’re on the right kit 🏄🏼‍♂️⚡️

[@VerdantRide]

Have they changed their documentation regarding the warranty? The copy I have doesn't contain any language that says anything remotely similar to, "We'll train you to be an authorized Flite technician capable of maintaining the board and fulfilling all warranty requirements." Can you share the actual documentation that ships with the board regarding the owner's requirements to ensure the warranty will be honored when needed over the first 2 years?

[@_JustinChait_]

@@VerdantRide as a certified Flite service center and partner I know for a fact Flite does this. As far as documents go I’m not sure. Flite is very supportive of their customers. I’ve witnessed nothing but excellent service with warranties and service. Service is required every 100 hours on the series 3 to maintain the 2 year warranty. After 2 years, you should still service the board every 100 hours to keep it working. Think of Flite like a high end sports car. Gotta take care of it to get the top performance. Down to have a conversation with you and go over things

[@VerdantRide]

@@_JustinChait_ You know I respect your knowledge of Flite and the sport of efoiling, but I don't know how to properly handle this as an unbiased efoil news/review source. I hear and believe that you've witnessed Flite taking phenomenal care of their customers, but I'd like to see in writing from the company that I can use as an assurance to my audience that if they buy one and live in some remote location, they won't be needing to drive their board 7 hours to the nearest service center, or shipping their components back and forth with insurance every 100 hours use. I gotta say. I don't love that Flite is so complex that intricate maintenance is required at such regular intervals. Is it seriously every 12 months or every 100 hours, whichever comes first? That means I'd need to send in my board every 33.3 days. That means I'd be without my Flite board thrice in a single summer. That would make it the most high maintenance product I've ever owned and that is just not sustainable. I prefer Lift's method of replacing 1 of 4 major parts that anyone can install quickly to restore function to nearly any problem the board might have. In my experience, every likely problem any Lift board might have can be solved by replacing either the, mast/motor, battery, eBox, or controller. I don't need to send in my gear, I just swap it out with new gear and that is fast, painless, and affordable. If you've got contacts with officials at Flite, I'd love to interview them.

[@_JustinChait_]

@@VerdantRide the service is pretty simple however requires a bit of triaining… if details are missed it could cause issues. Just imagine 11000 boards on the market with untrained servicemen. Doesn’t make sense. What you’re getting from Flite is a bomb proof design that works flawlessly as long as you take care of it. Lift imo is a basic engineered efoil. No different than a diy efoil, just with some nice finishes. Flite on the other hand will literally run forever as long as the seals, oil and bearings are replace regularly. Jet skis require service every 50-100 hours and so do most boats. Because you live in a remote location you would be a candidate for training and be able to order your own parts and do the maintenance yourself. Every ev needs maintenance. The reality is you can go a long time before noticing any wear and tear. By the time you do notice wear in an ev,it’s too late. One ride on my ultra and you’d be smiling ear to ear ready to learn how to work on a Flite 😉

[@matthewharris9873]

@@VerdantRide "The initial 1 year/100 hour and ongoing 1 year/100 hour (whichever comes first) service requires that your eFoil (mast), Flite Controller and True Glide Prop (if purchased) be serviced by an authorized service partner or Fliteboard HQ." I just learned this as well was very surprised as it seems like something that should have been front and center when the board arrived that you lose your warranty after 100 hours or a year if you don't have it professionally maintained. I'm guessing since I have not heard too many horror stories they keep this in there so they can deny warranties on people who abuse their gear but will likely honor the warranty if they can see it has not been abused. Just speculating but dumb for sure.

[@mikeb1039]

Seems like this mole hill has become a mountain to you and takes you down a rather aggressively toned path that the issue doesn't really warrant. Lifts downfall? Highly speculative and probably unfair, but hey it's your channel.

[@VerdantRide]

Let's discuss… Did Lift do a good job of providing photos and descriptions of this wing to let the customers know what they were buying? No. Does that lead to customer confusion? Yes. Are customers that are confused more or less likely to make future purchases? Less. Is Lift doing a good job of marketing to people in my market segment? No. Are there lots of potential buyers in my particular market segment? Yes. Is Flite catching up and surpassing Lift in terms of innovation? Maybe/Hard to Say. Is Flite increasing its foothold in the market space? Yes. Is my marketing advice I provided to Lift likely to be successful in my particular regional and market segment? It has worked very well for brands like Harley Davidson, Minn-Kota, Polaris, and other recreational/sport market segments that are launching new or advantageous innovations.