Light rail isn't light? Street Car vs. Light Rail vs. Commuter Rail | Railroad 101

[@bluescrew3124]

Ummmmm I see Zagreb?

[@Hyce777]

Winner winner chicken dinner, though you are there with me now.... :P

[@385x01y]

@@Hyce777 I am in Zagreb tomorrow

[@simonbasko4214]

Hey, I was there yesterday.

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

​@@Hyce777what's up buddy. Croatia is beautiful. I had the best Indian food there I ever had. Flying into the country looks like a postcard. Hey bud, few months ago you replied to me. Bro... I was having a bad day, a bad few years actually and your message brightened my day. Since then things have become manageable but I still have only a good few hours each day. I am getting stronger and better bit by bit. Thank you for your kind words that day and if you ever come to Japan, please let me know. I'm sure you would LOVE our trains here. Take it easy.

[@dfor]

I’m a light rail operator in Portland, and you’re correct in that for the most part we are regulated by the FTA, but also the state of Oregon’s DOT. The only places where we have to follow specific FRA regulations (like keeping our railroad light on at all times) is where we run right next to heavy rail tracks. On the MAX system, our only tracks that runs close enough to heavy rail to fall into that classification is parts of the Orange Line where we share 8 grade crossings with heavy rail and some parts of it where we run adjacent with no separation fencing.

[@Hyce777]

Well said; crossings tie into, a whole litany of other issues that bring all sorts of regulation. In my brain that was a separate thing I've already covered but here we are. Thanks for your experience!

[@robnobert]

TriMet employees in Portland are AWESOME 😎🌞 unfortunately our local government has made the system so unreliable and also unsafe that despite the fact my house AND my job are RIGHT NEXT to a MAX stop... I take the TriMet bus instead. It's literally faster 70% of the time (I've tested it, I have spreadsheets 😅), and I'm less likely to get raped at a station or stabbed 🤷‍♂️ -- so I'm realllllly not a fan of the MAX. Combine that with the fact it was randomly delayed for accidents, switch issues, and maintaince, often with no warning, often several times a month depending on the line (looking at you Blue Line 😡) ... and if I didn't account for that instead of getting to work 20mins early... it could possibly get me there 1hr late and it happened often enough eventually I just had to stop using the MAX or I'd lose my job 🤷‍♂️. Either that or I could leave 2 HOURS early for insurance that I'd have time to transfer to the right bus if something happened. After timing out a bunch of commutes I discovered I saved 15mins on average every time I chose the bus instead of the MAX, often even if there were transfers involved. --- Don't even get me started on the fact that are way WAY too many stops downtown. It doesn't make sense it should take almost an hour to go 2 miles just because they want a stop every. other. block 🙄 -- I really want to love the MAX... I LOVE the operators and TriMet drivers and employees in general ❤️ you guys are not only friendly, the amount of compassion COMBINED with a good sense for keeping people safe is amazing! ... I just wish our system was better managed, maintained and upgraded, and better policed so that the public could get better use out of it! It has the potential to be amazing! ... It just isn't right now imo ☹️

[@ChrisPoach]

​@@robnobert it would help if the decision makers for trimet/max were in Portland and not Salem

[@Hybris51129]

Ever since I was a kid I thought "Light Rail" was just a fancy term for a narrow gauge railroad with smaller lighter cars. Good to see that I wasn't completely wrong.

[@ytzpilot]

I believe the BART system in San Francisco is the only subway system in the world using wide gauge which is a 60” span, the advantage of wide gauge is a much smoother ride the trains don’t rock around with a wider wheel base

[@someonesomewhere1240]

@@ytzpilot Melbourne has broad gauge 5'3" / 1600mm commuter/metropolitan rail, including an underground section through the central city (and another being built). It probably doesn't strictly count as a subway but it's not a low-frequency system

[@AL5520]

@@ytzpilot Barcelona's L1 metro uses Iberian gauge of 1,668 mm/65.67" L8, on the other hand, uses narrow meter gauge 1000 mm/39.37" The rest is standard gauge In Spain there is pretty extensive meter gauge system of about 1,250 km (780 mi) that carries both passengers and freight. The regular network is broad gauge Iberian and the high speed network is standard gauge which is why there are trains that can switch between Iberian and standard gauge on the fly by passing through a gauge convertor while moving with passengers - it takes about 2 minutes at slow speed.

[@Bassotronics]

Bonus Commentary. "Light Rail Transit" is usually 8.5 feet in width compared to the 10 feet of full sized trains to match the width of 18 Wheeler trucks and merge properly with traffic with most big vehicles. Anything wider than 8.5 is considered "wide load" and not permitted on streets without proper signs or some type of permission. But of coarse there are exceptions in some cases.

[@upnorth7497]

"Let me know if you'd like to see that.." Of course we would!! If it's a Hyce video, I'm going to watch it, I don't care what it's about

[@theolittlestone6406]

Same hear.

[@daveagreg]

Totally!

[@a101a6]

One interesting thing about light rail at least in the US is that the term “Light Rail” has more to do with limited passenger capacity than weight. Most light rail vehicles in the US are actually much heavier than the “heavy rail” subway cars mainly because they need to be able to survive collisions with automobiles in regular service.

[@Hyce777]

Interesting!

[@huberthahn7865]

i still think, its because some marketing guys doesnt want to name it "interurban", because thats what LRT practically is.

[@VestedUTuber]

I'd say that's a matter of "light rail is a form of interurban but not all interurbans are light rail". Because the South Shore Line in Chicago and along the south shore of Lake Michigan is an interurban but runs full heavy rail equipment in the form of Nippon-Sharyo designed modular EMUs. And yes, that's despite the fact that multiple stations along the route are actually street-running stops (at least until they complete the new right-of-way).

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

It's actually almost Exactly the same as an Interurban, infact they are often the direct successors to Interurbans

[@EyeMWing]

The Baltimore light rail system used to have a section that was shared with heavy rail freight. Because FRA, they had to separate the two - light rail ran during the day and into the evening, and then they'd shove them all in the car barn, remove a derailer and the class 1 would come in and switch out their industries. If they didn't get their crap done in time, better get out the bus replacement service, because no light rail for you, This came about because the light rail basically bought out the right of way from the class 1 as the basis for building out service to a new area, and ended because the freight customers dried up (probably because getting your cars switched out at 3AM sucks)

[@xanukraine]

France and Germany have several similar systems, typically called “tram-train”. Really cool and out of box approach.

[@thefaulnt3562]

Yeah, my town had a mixed use track built to the coast, that became only freight, then light rail bought out the daytime hours of a good chunk of the alignment and built new the rest. So now cargo to the industries only switch at way too early in the morning. West coast USA.

[@RadioNJ1948]

Same here in New Jersey. The light rail River Line from Camden to Trenton runs on freight RW in the daytime and freight runs at night. Seems to work okay but no light rail after midnight could leave you stranded with no way home if out at a concert or partying.

[@tramlink8544]

im a lightrail driver, in German speaking parts of europe we call them Stadbahnen (City railways) and Streetcars/Trams are called Strassenbahn (Street Railway) The definition in europe is pretty clear. if it only has doors on one side, its a tram, if it has doors on both sides, its light rail. same with two cabs and single cab, and usually city rails use versions of TPS, the Swiss example being we use ZSI127 which is whats also used by narrowgauge railways here

[@Hyce777]

That's smart!

[@genoobtlp4424]

Somehow, the single ended vs. dual ended definition as a per se rule bothers me, coming from Switzerland. There’s quite a few lines that once were separate narrow gauge railways that got interlined into their local tram networks and thus converted to single ended operation (in Germany, I know Karlsruhe S1/S11, that are run with trams despite clearly being an S-Bahn worthy line) while Geneva is reviving its tram network but likes the flexibility offered by double ended trams that clearly remain trams in my eyes. But I guess the exception confirms the rule

[@AndreasSebayang]

@@genoobtlp4424Innsbruck in Austria also has two lines which used to be narrow gauge steam lines that have been converted into a system that is compatible with the tram rolling stock. But aren’t they running historical steam trains every now and then? They also keep the traditional names for the routes, so the heritage is clear. Wonder if a light rail definition would be applicable here at all.

[@bahnspotterEU]

Who came up with that definition? I've never heard of it and I heavily doubt this is serious in any way, because unidirectional vs. bidirectional vehicles says nothing about the system's qualities.

[@DanielLamando]

Interesting on the single/double sided point.. I'm in Berlin and the Trams here are mostly double headed, while some lines still operate trams with doors only on one side. They're all a part of the same BVG Tram system. So how does that balance out 🤔

[@hvfd5956]

I have also ridden an RTD train in Denver. It came right by my hotel, turned the corner and went up by the Theater. Seattle, Denver and Austin all have Paramount Theaters. Seattle's still has their original 1926 Wurlitzer pipe organ(although it now has micro-processor controls - the original relays are still there because no one is crazy enough to carry them down the ladder which is only a couple of feet from the back of the building. If you get up that way again, all 3 theaters in the Seattle Theater group give behind the scene tours on various Saturday's. I had a blast. I have done the tour at the Moore (1907) and the Paramount so far.

[@cruisemasterdoesgames]

thank you for posting this from a light rail operator

[@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire]

In the UK we class Light Rail as a system with axle weights of less than 12.5 tons and at a speed of less than 25mph and this has been the case since 1896. In the UK the level boarding standard is 1,115mm vertical offset from railhead and 900mm horizontal offset railhead.

[@Hyce777]

Interesting. That's *very* different than our definition.

[@davidty2006]

But more importantly it was a way to build a railway line without an act of parliament which is generally a pain to get in the best of times...

[@DiamondKingStudios]

I wonder if “tramways” or various industrial lines would have been included under this definition.

[@screwdriver5181]

Light Rail in the uk was a line built with Statutory Powers granted under the Light Railways Act.. I am the President of one such line. There were special exemptions and limits such as the maximum speed of 25 mph. Since the change of regulations with the introduction of the Interoperabilty Directive there are other requirements but the speed limit is still 25 mph (40kph). The Regulator is still His Majesties Railways Inspectorate, now part of the Office of Rail and road. ORR. The confusion exists because the modern tramways are often referred to as “light rail” because the term tramway is seen as old fashioned.!

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

the UK has a level boarding standard, but does not adhere to it or attempt to adhere to it :/

[@AndreasSebayang]

It gets messier in Germany. Basically everything that is not “heavy rail” (Eisenbahn, EBO regulations) is a streetcar (Straßenbahn, BOStrab regulations, which means operating and building rules for streetcar systems). The later includes subways, streetcars, stadtbahn systems, People Mover (“Besondere Bauart”). But there are streetcars that can and indeed follow the EBO regulations. Either on pretty much an exclusive network (Mannheim/Heidelberg) where this EBO network connects the street car networks. Or they actually run along the big trains (Karlsruhe area). There is however not a single subway system (Berlin, Nürnberg, München, Hamburg) that does that. Stadtbahn systems however can do EBO. I think in the Rhein Ruhr area? I am not sure. And then we have two definitions of S-Bahn systems. One that almost exclusively uses it’s own network even own signaling (but still following EBO) in Hamburg and Berlin. And then the S-Bahn systems that are basically the big trains, sometimes even running with those trainsets (labeling RB Trains for marketing reasons into S-Bahn). And finally there is Munich which is kinda in the middle of things. 😅 Oh, and then there is a regulation for Maglev trains thanks to the Transrapid and the newer TSB system. These are neither EBO nor BOStrab IIRC.

[@hypermaniksk534]

Mannheim Mentioned🇩🇪🇩🇪🔥🔥🔥🚈🚈

[@MarioFanGamer659]

You forgot another classification: ESBO which is used for narrow gauge railways (but not all narrow gauge railways are classified as this, see the Harz Railway). Which, for that matter, is what the tracks between Mannheim and Heidelberg (and Weinheim, alongside between Ludwigshafen and Bad Dürkheim) are classified, not EBO.

[@AndreasSebayang]

@@MarioFanGamer659 Oh, indeed. Always thought Mannheim/Heidelberg is EBO. Interesting. Maybe because the trains are so wide I just assumed that. Sometimes I don’t recognize meter gauge.

[@djdougiefresh6492]

KC Rail LRO here (former BNSF and Sound Transit IT) THANK YOU for essentially making a video summarizing everything I continually have to lecture friends and coworkers on about my job😁

[@timothystamm3200]

The Denver trains are the same as the Philadelphia trains. They look like subway trains because they are electric multiple units. In some countries only freight carried in dedicated freight cars are hauled by locomotive still. The passenger trains are all train sets, multiple units, or self-propelled rail cars. In Japan for container freight trains, they actually have freight electrical multiple units that are essentially all gondala cars with a wall on the front and rear end to secure the containers to with a control cab on the front and rear ends of the train set.

[@gonzoengineering4894]

I once wrote a spy story where an elderly character from Europe ( a different country every draft) was meeting a contact at a disused commuter station. While waiting, he took some nostalgic amusement in seeing a loco hauled express rush by. "Like in the old days" he muses to what he thought was an empty platform His contact introduces herself "They're mostly fixed sets these days. The worst of both worlds really, but we love doing things differently just to be different here."

[@lbicknell]

I always thought the main difference was in the crash worthiness standards. “Heavy rail” vehicles have to assume hitting a 18 wheeler at a grade crossing at 70MPH with 10,000 tons behind them. Light rail assumes a DMU with perhaps 8-10 cars max generally operating at slower speeds. The standards as I understand it for both the locomotives and passenger interiors are significantly different. This argument also comes up with the few commuter lines and the NEC where there is full grade separation but the FRA is holding the equipment to “heavy rail” standards. Many argue in these environments we should adopt Europe’s standards, “medium rail?”, to get more efficient and comfortable vehicles at a lower cost.

[@paulgracey4697]

Around 100 years ago the term "light rail" might apply to interurban electric passenger services, different from street car railways found only within one city. Freight rated trackage when automobiles were becoming common, sometimes to this day, might involve street running sections in suburban towns that the railroads had created. Those "heavy rail" lines also needed the streets they ran through to have a more substantial roadbed to spread the load. Light rail as you say is about the weight that the right of way can carry with the rails and ballast it uses.

[@angryrailfan5711]

I find it funny the Pittsburgh streetcar network was technically light rail. Half of the system in the late 60’s was private ROW. All they really did to make it light rail in the 80’s was dig a tunnel downtown for a subway and redo the overhead to catenary. Some parts of the system remain unchanged from when it was built down to the signals and wire except for 2 inch extensions on the wire hangers to make the pantographs clear the span wires.

[@vidguy1976]

None of the original pre 1980s signals, track, overhead or support of overhead wires still exists on the T as it currently is, and has been the case since they closed down the Drake line in 1999. The entire route from South Hills Village thru Mt Lebanon and to down town was rebuilt in the 80s from the ground up and the two remaining street car era chunks were closed in 1998 (Overbrook to be later rebuilt as a modern dual track system) and Drake, which was abandoned .

[@angryrailfan5711]

@@vidguy1976 The library line is absolutely original. The poles are still wood, the overhead is still the original, the crossing electronics, and the signals are original.

[@TheTransitNomad]

Totally agree! 👍😅

[@ryanair9031]

This video cleared up a ton of confusion I had. As a Bostonian, I was always confused as to why the Green Line was considered light rail and the others were considered heavy rail, despite the fact that the Green Line runs on standard gauge rail of the same weight as the rest of them. The only difference is that the Green Line is a trolley, while Blue, Red, and Orange are third-rail subway cars.

[@dgwdgw]

When I first started taking buses back home in MSP, the "normal city bus" still had a raised floor and steps at the front & rear doors. They were very early in the process of replacing the gasoline fleet with hybrid and battery-only buses-and in the couple decades since the whole metro has switched to low-floor vehicles. We're also building billions of dollars' worth of new LRT 😁 If that other video on speed commands and/or LRT signaling ever happened, I can't find it. But I have a mighty need!

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

if you want a truly light locomotive, then the LNER Y6 is the perfect little garden shed... I mean locomotive, especially if you picture it next to a Y6b, which is just too hilarious!

[@DC4260Productions]

The Y7 too, only she's not a tram engine.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

@@DC4260Productions true. Both are lovely little engines, but I cant make the same joke of a Y6 next to a Y6b with the Y7!

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

I would absolutely love to learn more about light rail signaling. Your area of expertise, as I understand it!

[@Hyce777]

Bob Boerwinkle is the expert, I was merely a Padawan but I can share what I've learned.

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

@@Hyce777 Fair enough. Though you're a little late for Star Wars month - that was back in May!

[@dreibes43]

NJTransit's River Line runs LRVs over existing freight trackage. They had to get FRA approval for this because of the crashworthiness of light vs. heavy vehicles. Part of how this was done was with temporal separation built into the signaling system: if a LRV is on the line, the signal system will not give proceed signals to any of the places freight trains can enter, until the line is clear of LRVs, and vice versa. Since most freight usage occurs overnight, its a good way to accommodate both

[@TheTransitNomad]

Thank you so much for explaining all of that! I was often confused, but now I have a much better understanding of the difference. Great video! ❤

[@VintageRenewed]

Speaking of rail weight, something I found out recently that I thought was interesting The white pass in Alaska mainly uses 133 pound jointed rail but they are going through and gonna make their entire like 133 pound welded rail

[@Hyce777]

Oh wow! They do put miles on it. Makes sense.

[@davidfuller581]

I was under the impression that Light Rail used to use light rail, but now it's pretty much a catch-all for tram-style/trolley style mass transit that generally operates mostly at roughly street grade...

[@Cheftom6]

Finally, someone explained this now I do not have to explain light rail anymore. Thank you hyce

[@billlee5307]

A video about rail would be great. Thanks!

[@MartintheTinman]

In Australia Light Rail is popular everywhere they got rid of Trams and are now bringing them back, just because they don't want to be ridiculed for getting rid of Trams

[@QuintonMurdock]

I’ve become obsessed with the aging type 1 LRVs Portland uses

[@BandanRRChannel]

When it comes to passenger rail, I usually follow the rough AREMA (American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association) categories, which divides it as streetcar/vintage trolley, light rail transit, rapid transit (subways, Chicago L, Vancouver Skytrain, etc), commuter rail/regional rail, intercity rail (Amtrak, Brightline, etc), and high speed rail. Their Practical Guide to Railway Engineering has a nice overview on what separates the services; the first three are considered "Transit" (FTA regulated) and the second three are "Railway" (FRA regulated). There's also some guidance on typical speeds, headways, distances, etc. There are rare cases where light rail lines play host to freight trains at night (glares at San Diego) when light rail trains aren't running, and that's where I'd expect FTA/FRA joint regulation. There's also a couple "hybrid" systems that combine elements of several types and don't fit those neat categories, such as Sprinter (glares at San Diego/Oceanside).

[@Hyce777]

That's a solid set of definitions! I always forget about arema these days.

[@BoredSquirell]

I prefer to divide rail by the degree of separation from other traffic, either road or rail: - Sharing road lanes (streetcar) - Separate lanes or street sections but level crossings (light rail or tram, depending on region) - Some sections fully grade separated, some level crossings (light rail) - Fully grade separated from other traffic whether road, rail or pedestrian (metro, subway) - Mixing with other rail traffic like freight, sometimes with large dedicated sections, but the standard allows full inter-operation (commuter rail, regional rail) Each kind of running conditions are better suited to a specific type of vehicle, that's why we often talk about "light rail vehicles", but there's quite a bit of flexibility in definitions. And a large number of mixed situations

[@brillbusbootcamp2320]

Thanks for making this, Hyce, you’ve got an excellent knowledge from which to bust rail myths! The modern light-vs-heavy definitions you shared are about right looking at pre-1960s historic transit, too. Most interestingly, the same routes or companies have sometimes switched from heavy to light or the inverse. In several cases in eastern Pennsylvania, newer, more streetcar-like equipment mixed with and eventually replaced older train-like equipment, leading to some interesting modifications to the older equipment! Also, never try to narrowly define a streetcar. Someone somewhere built a street railway with some weird exception, and some nerd will happily tell you all about it!

[@Hyce777]

And I'm happy to hear about them. :D

[@CurtisFerrington]

Excellent video. I have no nits to pick. 🙂 Useless knowledge: It is true that many older Americans have an aversion to the metric system, but to be fair, the rail Pounds Per Yard is ye olde system of measurement from England. It's from the beginning when sections of rail were iron cast in 1 yard lengths. Then, when the change was made to roll forming wrought iron into longer lengths of rail, the measurement was kept for easy comparison to the size of cast rails.

[@Hyce777]

That's fascinating! Thank you for the useless knowledge. :D

[@royreynolds108]

I got a little book once from a scrap dealer covering almost all of the available steel rail weights that catalog the sizes(height, head width, and base width) by the manufacturer(mill). I have a piece of pear-head rail from a place where I worked. I traded a piece of pear-head rail for a piece of U-rail and 2-piece rail. Steel rail has been rolled in sizes from 8 lb or 1 9/16 inch high to 155 lb or 8 inches high in the typical T-shaped pattern by rail weight and pattern or section. The rail weight with the most sections is the 75-lb rail with 27. Some railroads designed their own rail sections and had them rolled for them.

[@mityace]

I've generally heard "heavy rail" being used to refer to subway/metro cars. For example, in NYC area, you have the NYC subway which is heavy rail under the FTA. The PATH system which runs like a subway but due to how the PRR set it up as the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad and it is under FRA authority even though it has an exclusive right of way. Meanwhile, the LIRR and Metro-North have EMUs that superficially resemble subway cars on the outside but they are true commuter rail. One interesting overlap is in the Cleveland RTA "Rapid" system. It has the Red line which uses heavy-rail EMUs and also has the Green/Blue/Waterfront light rail lines. The initial portion of these is the old Shaker Heights Rapid Transit which runs on road medians in Shaker Heights and private right of way to Tower City downtown. The waterfront line is likewise a mix of street running and private ROW. In a rare instance, the red, green and blue lines share tracks from just west of their separate E 79th Street stations to west of Tower City. E 55th and Tri-C Campus District (E 24th Street) are served by all three lines with high level platforms for the red line and low level platforms for Blue and Green. At Tower City, they still share track, however, the Red line has high level platforms on the west side and the Blue, Green and Waterfront Lines have low platforms on the east side. The light rail trains layover, reverse or enter the Waterfront Line west of Tower City. The trains on the Blue/Green/Waterfront Lines are "light rail" but the Shaker Heights sections were originally run with trolley and interurban cars including PCCs. The main change in the infrastructure since then is the partial or complete removal of the PCC turning loops at the east end of the lines.

[@aaronbredon2948]

The PATH used to interconnect with the Pennsylvania railroad tracks, and later with the Northeast Corridor tracks, so it That is why PATH is under the FRA - it was literally a railroad that shared rails with FRA trains.

[@DougGrinbergs]

3:07 streetcar 3:49 light rail usually in exclusive RoW, multiple cars, faster speed 6:16 commuter (heavy) rail regulated by FRA instead of FTA

[@andrewlaverghetta715]

I like the idea of hearing about rail weight, especially how they are able to make it "heavier," like do they make it both taller and wider? Can the top of the rail GET wider, or would that mess stuff up? Is the base different sizes? Does that mean there are different tie plates for different weights of rail?

[@Hyce777]

Yes to all you said! Taller, wider, thicker, top of rail gets wider (so long as the gauge doesn't change it's fine), different bases, tie plates... You name it!

[@SiqueScarface]

For an European, it's quite interesting how heated a debate in the U.S. can become about definitions like streetcar, light rail or commuter rail, and how much it gets into intricate details. To me, it's easy. There are streetcars, which operate according to Streetcar Operating Regulations, and there are railways, which run according to Railway Operating Regulations. To me, that's the only differentiation that counts. And an actual car running on rails can be both. It just depends on where it is. If it is on rails licensed as railway, it's a railway. If it is on rails that are licensed as streetcars, then it's a streetcar. And if it switches over from a railway licensed track to a streetcar licensed track, it legally turns from a railway car into a streetcar. Karlsruhe, Germany is famous for having their streetcars running on railway tracks. Innsbruck has the lines 6 and STB, which run as streetcars through downtown Innsbruck, but as railways up the mountains to Igls and Fulpmes respectively (it used to have the line 4 to Hall doing the same, but this one was cancelled in the 1970ies). I even got into a heated debate how the Budapest Metro would be light rail, and not a subway, which does not make sense at all, because more than 125 years ago, it was commissioned as a subway, built as a subway and operated as a subway. Just because 75 years into its operation, someone on a different continent comes up with the term "light rail" does not change anything for Budapest Metro. It's still a subway, and it predates all subways with third rail electrification, which for some reason are now the gold standard for subways.

[@BoredSquirell]

Are you German by any chance? Because it very German to define things according to the set of regulations they fall into ;)

[@SiqueScarface]

@@BoredSquirell Austria. Living close to Line 3 (Igls) and STB (Fulpmes). PS: According to the definition offered in the video, light rail systems were already present pre-WWI as cross country trams, with rails separate from roads, multi-car trains and right-of-way at level crossings. See the Belgian kusttram of 1885, or Localbahn Innsbruck-Hall of 1891, later the line 4 I already mentioned. To me, it still does not make sense to introduce a separate definition for light rail. It's more marketing, and has nothing to do with design or technology. To me, light rail is a tram, or a streetcar, and if it's running on railway tracks, it's a railway.

[@BoredSquirell]

@@SiqueScarface Yes, categorization in general is a hard problem, choosing which characteristics to take as relevant. Here's my counter argument: Most new "light rail" systems constructed in North America are more similar to the Frankfurt U-bahn than to most trams, meaning some tram-like and some metro-like sections. Even if just for marketing reasons I think it deserves a separate category

[@SiqueScarface]

@@BoredSquirell With the problem that the Frankfurt U-Bahn is not a separate system from Frankfurt Tram. Frankfurt U-Bahn trains have rail connections to the Frankfurt Tram network and use the same facilities. One connection from the C-Strecke of the U-Bahn to the tram network for instance branches off at Industriehof, runs via Schlossstrasse and connects to the tram network at Adalbertstrasse close to Frankfurt (Main) West station.

[@MarioFanGamer659]

@@SiqueScarface These are, however, for shunting purposes only and both systems are operationally isolated unlike e.g. Rotterdam and Oslo where tram and metro do operate on the same tracks in revenue service.

[@peregrina7701]

Thank you for this broad-strokes tutorial on light rail. Back in Philadelphia we certainly had streetcars, subways/els (they never seemed to run on the ground) which would be "light rail" and what SEPTA called Regional Rail, which meant the commuter trains that went out into the five-county area. Also some completely mad bus drivers who would run the streetcar routes in the middle of the night. Most of my time in Philly I had no car or leaving my hard-won parking space wasn't worth it - so I got very familiar with all of the above!! My nerdy heart would love videos on both rail weights and light-rail signaling/ops. During rush hour in Philly I never seemed to wait more than a few minutes for a subway train, and they went _fast_. Thanks again!!

[@patricksheary2219]

I always wondered about the meaning of light rail in the context of railroading in general. Kind of thought this had to do with the rolling stock. Mark, this was very nicely described and clarified questions for me. I also liked your description of rail weights and who regulates what. This video has got me intrigued about the rail weights and the light rail signaling so yes please Mark videos on those topics would be excellent! Professor yet another excellent class time learning moment. Many thanks for this installment and as always, cheers to you!

[@ColtonRMagby]

Until now, I just accepted what was said without question. Now I can make sure people use the term correctly by nerding out. I'd love to see you go into detail on more railroading stuff.

[@GP30_Foamer]

When you were talking about availability and headway, it reminded me of something I saw in Amsterdam on a school trip last week. When we had some free time, I decided to go and watch the local streetcar network. On multiple occasions, there were two trains sharing the same section back to back, not as one consist, but as two individual trains. I’ve got the clip if you want to see it.

[@bassplayer2011ify]

So I live in the greater Pittsburgh area. And our light rail system is basically what was kept after the majority of the street cars were removed and replaced with buses. One thing I noticed over the years is when the exclusive right of way interfaces with street level running. The light rail signals are based on the old Pennsy signals. So a vertical bar for proceed, a triangle for caution, and a horizontal bar for stop.

[@cerneysmallengines]

Would love to see you come out to Minnesota at some point. First would be obviously for the Lake Superior Railroad Museum. Would love to get your take on that. Second would be for our Light Rail System. They are opening a new branch here shortly that my brother is actually working on constructing. Third would be the Saint Paul Roundhouse Lastly would be our Streetcar Museum. I would love to see an actual heritage railway for streetcars here in Minnesota at some point, but I think we have a better shot at completing all freeway construction before that ever happens.

[@vivi_t3ch]

thanks for the vid Hyce! I always took light rail to mean light vehicles as opposed to main line freight traffic. Although I do admit I always thought light rail and commuter were interchangable, so thanks for clearing that up! I would love to see more videos about the rail weight itself you were talking about and asking if we want a video done, that could be awesome. Maybe for fun mix in the different model train track size codes to really throw a wrench into it

[@Idaho-Cowboy]

Heavy Rail is when you play Smells like Kenosha on an electric guitar and crank up the rock and roll sound.

[@xanukraine]

“Streetcar” vs “Light Rail Transit” terms are typical for countries that dismantled urban rail transit in 60s and 70s (like USA). Countries that kept their urban rail (like Germany or Czech Republic) just have one word (for example, “tram”) across the decades. Those “trams” in the 50s would look more like “streetcar”, but after being extensively upgraded in 80s-90s-00s they now look more like “light rail”.

[@ilicythings]

The second scenario you described seems quite similar to the network in Melbourne, Australia which has had trams running since they were first put in, horse- and cable- drawn (as they were) back in 1885. We still have a line running historic trams, which look very much like streetcars, but the majority of the network is moving towards a more light-rail look, with aims to make the vehicles in the fleet have higher capacity and be more accessible (level boarding, passenger information given as both audio announcements and on displays, etc). The trams here mostly run on/along the roads, but a few lines have sections which are dedicated to the tram (one used to be a rail line, another runs through a park).

[@germanmosca]

Not entirely true. In germ any you got Straßenbahn/Tram, and Stadtbahn/Light-rail. The Stadtbahn as we know it today orininated in Frankfurt/Main, and is also the blueprint for what we call light-rail these days.

[@osageorangegaming5128]

I would like to see a vid on rail weight; I know that rail comes in different weights and can have different uses/applications based in part on that weight, and that rail weight has changed over time. Definitely would find such a topic to be of interest.

[@sleepythespian1455]

2:06 What other city other than Denver can say their LRT system runs DIRECTLY THROUGH an active convention center? (Note: The image in the given time stamp wasn’t anywhere near the Colorado Convention Center, but since RTD was shown, I figured this was the best spot to mention that.)

[@TheNomadluap]

In Waterloo, Ontario Canada a section of our ION light rail shares tracks with nightly freight operations right through the middle of downtown and the university district. They installed gauntlet tracks to keep the freight cars away from the light rail stations, and I believe there are two completely separate signal systems that interlock with eachother, one each for the LRVs and freight trains.

[@erikziak1249]

We have a mixed system in Bratislava. Basically a streetcar, but 80% of its tracks are separated right of way with "preference" control of signals (cars get stopped so streetcars can drive through intersections without stopping or slowing down significantly). Practically the inner historic city center is either a pedestrian zone with trams, or dedicated tram lanes without any physical separation from other traffic (cars can weir onto the track to drive around obstacles, e.g. parked delivery vans). Very short sections have also mixed lanes with cars being allowed to drive on the tracks, usually near intersections. Once out of the city center the tracks become physically separated by a curb with crossings being the only points of conflict with road traffic, usually the most likely places of collisions with cars. Many crossings are not protected by signals and even if they are, they are not always with priority signaling for streetcars. And about the streetcars: 2,5 meter wide, 32,5 meters long. Either a two-car unit of older cars or new low floor articulated vehicles. Three car "trains" have been successfully tested, but regular operation was dropped due to covid and never resumed afterwards. But I expect them to return, as passenger number have already reached pre-covid levels and running streetcars more frequently than every 120 seconds makes it difficult to provide priority signaling on road crossings that are part of intersections along the line.

[@danesmith3615]

Some many comments but as an ex rtd commuter engineer we are connected to the national rail network at Denver Union station via Track 4. More RTD things we had 32 Married pairs basically two cars. Daily operations during peak works out to 7 trains on the A line(usually a double married pair so 4 cars total) running every 15 minutes, 3 trains on the N line for every 30 minutes, 3 on the g line for every 30 and 1 on the B line for every hour(thought the trip is only 12 minutes each way lol) At precovid operating the G Line had 6 trains for every 15 and the B line had two trains for every 30

[@HrLBolle]

A more casual viewer from the beautiful district of Kassel. The city of Kassel has a fairly decent bus network, served by KVG vehicles and those from third-party companies, as well as a decent tram network, which funnily enough runs on 2 lines on the track area (signaling and monitoring corresponds to that of Deutsche Bahn) of the Hessian State Railway. Then there is the most recent addition, the Regiotram (can be connected to the tram's overhead line, track width is identical to the German standard gauge), whose main driving/operating area is also subject to DB regulations. Best wishes from the other side of the big pond

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

Something interesting is Philadelphia's commuter rail uses the exact same trains as Denver but they are much longer they have multiple types of trains with 7 Different lines and share track with Amtrak and CSX and thus have some strange signaling systems, this is because the Whole thing was Originally built by the Pennsylvania Railroad and the Philadelphia & Reading Railroad, which both Electrified their Commuter Trains with 11,000 Volts 25 Hertz AC in the 1920s and the Pennsylvania Railroad kept Electrifying lines until about 1940

[@embeddedgirl]

In Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, we have the ION LRT which was built using a section of a CN spur. It is built to LRT standarda in terms of signaling, however CN still operates locals during the night in off peak hours. Its a very interesting setup.

[@Bedwyr7]

The Seattle Times has done coverage of pedestrian accidents and injuries in Rainier Valley. That's been pretty rough. On a brighter note we're looking forward in the north end to Lynnwood service in August! The system is really starting to work like a regional system now.

[@Hyce777]

It is rough, but nowhere near as bad as many other systems...

[@Bedwyr7]

@@Hyce777 I getchu. The politics gets amplified because of what Rainier Valley historically is. Less so now with gentrification and south migration, but man. And not intending to open that discussion, just observe that it exists. It is a bed of thorns.

[@Hyce777]

@@Bedwyr7 yeaaaaah believe me I lived there. Challenging area, historically. I get it. It's sad.

[@Bedwyr7]

@@Hyce777 😢

[@makostesztakft]

I paused less than five seconds before you immediately invalidated half the comment I composed. The bit that's still valid: City buses didn't start as LF either, and both for them and for trams (screw it, pulling this general but more European term) it's been a few kinds of engineering nightmare to fit the people zone so close to the whole axle situation, hence why they only became as prevalent as anything towards the '90s and aughts.

[@interstellarphred]

LRT actually means Light Rail Tramway; It was loathed to say trolley or tram. Politicians, bureaucrats, and advocates needed a euphemism free of innuendo of nostalgia for the obsolete. My beef is with referring to a metro as "heavy rail" which is what is operated on the national railway system. these terms came into wide use from those who do not know the difference between trolley wire and catenary.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

One correction: Up until the last 2 or 3 decades, streetcars were almost all high floor, including the PCCs and the Kawasaki cars (Philadelphia) that you showed footage of. Low floor streetcars are mostly a modern invention. But I would be remiss if I didn't mention that at least one exception existed: The Boston Elevated Railway Center Entrance streetcars built in the 1920s, which had a low floor region in between the bogies, and (as the name implies) HUGE sliding doors in the middle on both sides to let passengers get on and off quickly while going by the conductor stand in the very center of each car. I know that some other "center entrance" cars existed elsewhere, but they tended to be single-sided/single-ended, and I am not sure if they had low floors in the middle. Interestingly, even when Boston got PCCs, which were almost all single-ended (the ex-Dallas cars being an exception), they still had to get them with doors on both sides, due to island platforms in the Central Subway that they had built to ease streetcar congestion in the 1890s, as well as in a few other places -- a few of the stations on the surface lines through Cambridge into Watertown and Belmont also had island platforms in the form of safety islands in the street, as well as the lower Harvard bus tunnel having a left-hand platform, and so when they went to electric trolleybuses in the 1950s, THOSE also had to be ordered with left-hand doors. Unfortunately, in the last few years the MBTA management decided to get rid of all of the electric trolleybuses (also including the dual-mode buses on the Silver Line Waterfront) in favor of battery-electric and extended-range hybrid buses. But they STILL have to order the ones for the Cambridge routes with left-hand doors, because they passed up the opportunity for realignment when they were renovating the Harvard bus tunnels.

[@IsaacDaBoatSloth]

my local railway used to be a paper pulp freight line and its classed as a light railway

[@yearlygymnast9865]

I have a quick question that wasnt explained in the video, when you say "the crews bid in" (in reference to BNSF crews working on the SoundTransit route) what does that mean. Like do they put their names in a proverbial hat, or it it more of a "person X its your turn to run the pax job"

[@Hyce777]

Union bid jobs! Based on seniority. If you bid the job and get it, it's yours until someone higher seniority bumps you off of it, or it gets reorganized and comes up for bid again..

[@BrooksMoses]

@@Hyce777 : That and similar topics might make an interesting video. You could center it around "what is the life of a train crew like" sort of generally, and talk about things like in the early days when engineers had a specific locomotive assigned to them (which I gather lasted through the end of steam on the Southern), and where crews would sleep if they had assignments that didn't get them back home at the end of the day (cabooses sometimes had beds; did only conductors sleep there or who would do that?). Also some simpler things like how many people make up a train crew and how that's changed over the years; on one model railroad I operated, we had little cardboard flagmen to put out when we stopped for a switch job, and I think between them and brakemen and the conductor and engineer and fireman we had an imaginary crew of six or seven people. It's now down to just an engineer and a conductor most of the time, right?

[@chrisbarnes2882]

Yes! RR minutia! I could listen all day to esoteric train talk!

[@DC4260Productions]

I always thought 'light rail' was just a modern term for streetcar (or 'tram' as it's called in places like Australia and New Zealand). If I remember rightly, nine towns / cities in NZ had electric tram networks, but they had all closed by 1964. There was a fairly recent plan for a modern 'light rail' system in Auckland, but that was a complete disaster for a whole host of reasons, and cancelled before any length of track was even built. Fortunately, there are a few places in our country where heritage trams are preserved and restored to working order (featuring not just NZ trams, but also some trams that have come over from Australia). A good example is the Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland. On the subject of light rail systems, I recommend looking up the Charleroi Metro in Belgium. It's a really strange system that uses (what look like) conventional trams, but the lines are a combination of underground sections, street running and dedicated right-of-way all on the same network.

[@pleappleappleap]

I've usually seen full size rapid transit subway systems referred to as "heavy rail", rather than commuter rail. Like the New York Subway (heavy rail) vs Newark City Subway (light rail).

[@paulstubbs7678]

In Melbourne Australia we had, for a very long time, basically two systems, the full 3 or 6 car electric passenger trains and our tram network. the electric train network also took diesel electric freight trains. We never heard the term 'light rail' Then we started getting newer and bigger articulated trams, some now all but 3 car units. About that time two train lines started seeing severely reduced usage, so the government decided to convert them to 'Light rail', the first time I had heard the term, which basically meant those two lines were severed from the rail network and connected to the tram network, the 1500V overhead power being dropped to the 600V used by our trams. I would have thought they'd have to rip everything out and start from scratch, but no, about the only thing that saw major change was the station platforms being way lower. Mostly they sold off the old stations and built new, much simpler ones right next door. Just a platform and a partially sheltered waiting area/seating. It seems rather strange shooting down those lines, on regular ballasted tracks under the all but 100 year old lattice gantries and overhead gear. rather than 'custom' tram tracks set into bitumen roads, fighting with cars etc. I always took 'light rail' to mean ''light duty rail", smaller low profile all in one vehicles, that didn't need stations and platforms, rather than physically separate cars with visible couplings between them and proper full stations etc.

[@zaklex3165]

Yes, you'll have to do one for signaling because that's were you can get into street light overrides(where the light rail/streetcar system overrides the regular operation of street signals giving the priority to the transit system and relegating the vehicle traffic to secondary status.

[@mafarnz]

There are a couple of switches at the throat to Denver Union Station that could in theory allow for interchange between RTD and BNSF (or UP, not sure who has all that track these days.) those probably only exist for emergency use of a different platform by Amtrak or delivery of RTD equipment.

[@jason38321]

These terms are hard to define, but here's my (very arbitrary) opinion: A light rail vehicle is a rail vehicle that can safely and efficiently operate in mixed traffic with cars. E.g. it probably has a track brake. It doesn't have to *actually* operate in mixed traffic, just be capable of it. A light rail system (LRT) is a rail system that uses light rail vehicles, regardless of whether or not vehicles actually *run* in mixed traffic. E.g. Boston's Green Line D branch or Mattapan Trolley. A streetcar is a subset of LRTs that make minimal use of dedicated ROWs. "Heavy" rail is any railway that isn't an LRT. The sub-types are differentiated by speed and distance of the trips they're designed for: a subway or metro is optimized for short trips with frequent stops (e.g. Boston Blue Line), intercity rail takes passengers at high(ish) speeds between cities (e.g. Amtrak), and regional or commuter rail is between the two (e.g. the Long Island Railroad). Essentially the passenger version of class 1/2/3 freight railroads. Are these based on any particular expertise? No. But I think they make sense.

[@93greenstrat]

I live in the DC region and we have a variety of systems including WMATA (Metrorail and Metrobus), MARC (commuter service in Maryland operating on CSX and Amtrak's NE Corridor), VRE (commuter service in northern Virginia operating on CSX and NS) and the infamous DC streetcar (ummm.....yeah.). Metrorail (our subway system) and CSX share the ROW with the red line bisecting the CSX double track Metropolitan Sub. (former B&O Metropolitan Branch) between NE DC and Silver Spring MD. I recently, as in just this week after having lived here for decades, learned that WMATA actually owns the ROW and leases the Met Sub back to CSX along this section. Back in the mid-80's, there were a couple of freight train derailments along this segment that naturally sparked concerns as to the safety of having a busy subway system running in parallel to an active railroad and I believe at one point, WMATA was trying to get CSX to alter its operations to restrict most of its traffic to overnight hours (Mr. Harrison would have had something to say about this I'm sure). The Met is also used by MARC and Amtrak. Freight operations remain unimpeded but they did install a corridor integrity monitor along the fences separating CSX and Metro. An abandoned interlocking tower (QN) was torn down at the insistence of WMATA due to the potential for arson. The tower was located adjacent to the Rhode Island Avenue Metro station.

[@mewtheenigma2732]

Interesting insight to how you differentiate the three "weights" of rail transit. On the east coast when I went to college, we were taught to think of light, commuter, and heavy rail in terms of passenger density. So light rail could take a decent amount of people per train, then commuter rail had the potential to take more people at once, and then heavy rail was for super passenger-dense systems like the NY City subway where you could have like double-digit car count trains absolutely packed like sardines during rush hour.

[@CptAwesome747]

I love learning nerdy stuff from you. I never thought about rail weight, that'd be cool to learn

[@jackr2287]

Classically, I would consider any freight standard gauge track to be "heavy" by association, or at least in comparison to city transport rails, subways, trams, etc. The mainline BNSF and CN lines near me are loaded down with coal or gravel or taconite or containers that weight many tons more than a complete commuter line used by a metro.

[@1nown]

Light Rail Transit are the same as Trolleys and Trams, but with a larger marketing budget. Honestly, the only difference is the way the system is run and what it's intended to accomplish. If you want a trolley-like system that operates in lieu of commuter rail but on the cheap (and to bypass some of those pesky standards) and without reminding people of the 'great streetcar scandal' or other negative perceptions folk might have, you call it 'light rail' or a 'light metro'. As an Australian, I know that Melbourne still runs high floor trams and Sydney's 'light rail' operates both like a 'street car' and 'light rail' within the definition given. The inner CBD sections operate along either streets or within pedestrianised areas, before opening up into dedicated rights-of-way. Maybe it's worth thinking about the colloquial 'lightness' of a rail network in terms of ballast and ties. The Link runs mostly over concrete without traditional ballasting, correct? That seems more uniform over so-named 'light rail' systems. The lower speeds and centre of gravity of the rollingstock (plus modern construction methods) presumably allow these to be dispensed with. P.S. The lack of interconnectivity between streetcars and Line 1 was a headache when I visited Seattle two years ago; I spent more time waiting for a trolley then walking from the trolley down to the capitol hill stop than I did on the trolley itself. It's wild to me just how many different modes exist side-by-side in one place yet weren't properly meshed together. P.S.S. To really mix things up, 'tram' as a term was used broadly during the steam era here, incorporating small branch lines ('tramways') that serviced a small number of stops with sections of street running and either limited or no ballasting. This meant you would catch a 4-4-2T loco-hauled 'tram' to a town like Yass or Camden at the same time as Sydney had the largest electric 'tram' network in the southern hemisphere.

[@Blank00]

A good way to distinguish light rail from commuter rail is that in light rail, each vehicle is typically made of permanently attached sections, and each vehicle doesn't allow passengers to walk from one vehicle to another vehicle unless at a station. In commuter rail, vehicles typically consist of 1 rigid section and typically allow passengers to walk to the next vehicle. One key distinction between heavy rail vs light rail and commuter rail is that heavy rail vehicles are typically designed by the transit agency (hence a Bombardier vehicle for BART is very different than a Bombardier vehicle built for somewhere else) whereas in other systems, vehicles are designed by the manufacturer

[@LordPhobos6502]

Just to add to the fun, and muddy some of those definitions, here in Victoria Australia, a few years ago, our tram system went from being under the umbrella of the TSV (state based safety authority, covers many modes of transport) to falling under the ONRSR (national rail safety authority). At the beginning, they had a lot of trouble understanding that WE DO NOT HAVE SIGNALS, the trams here follow the traffic lights same as cars and fall under road legislation. (There are some signallised junctions but they are not everywhere or universal). Oh... and I thought 'light rail' was a term politicians used because they think tram is a dirty word.

[@utahrailfan1946]

Hyce, the Denver RTD commuter rail interchanges with the general system at Union Station. Think how the California Zephyr gets in. Here in Utah, our TRAX light rail system has multiplr points for freight trains to access the light rail system at night for industrial customers.

[@Skasaha_]

It very much depends on where you are. Originally in most places 'light railways' did use relatively light rail, but clearly that's no longer the case in the US. Where I'm from in Melbourne we don't really use the term. We have two 'heavy rail' networks, one broad gauge that was built up across the entire state in the 19th century until the 20s, and a newer standard gauge network that mostly does (and is designed for) freight and also interstate trains between capitals. Sometimes they're called 'heavy rail' collectively, but we usually just refer to them depending on what service it is. Branch lines used to be very lightly laid but no one called it light rail - they've closed or relaid them all. We also have the largest tram network in the world. They started out exactly like US streetcars but due to how heavily used it is most of them are now 3-5 segment trams that resemble what the US would call light rail. Except for a couple routes almost all of it is on roads or in meridians. Then we also had a small number of 2"6' NG lines that were very lightly laid but never called light rail - 1 still exists in preservation and runs 364 days a year. So yeah, we have some 'light railways', but no light rail.

[@wobblebee1242]

Im surprised Sound Transit doesnt have pre empt devices. (Idk the actual wording) i ride the MAX a few hours south, and we almost never stop outside of stations while street running. The MAX is also almost entirely at grade but exclusive row, bc cheap lol

[@Hyce777]

The city said no.

[@dmac7128]

The two differences are: LRT can operate with street level traffic like a streetcar and operate like a commuter rail. And they are small trainset comprising of EMUs or DMUs. Commuter rail does not operate on streets. Anytime it crosses a street, it has to be a grade crossing with signals to stop all traffic when a train crosses it They are larger than LRT (larger wheels and cooches), and are typically powered by a locomotive (some use EMUs like the Arrow IIIs used by NJ Transit) Though not sure what category subways fall into. They are smaller than commuters but operated on dedicate track either underground or elevated. They often use a third rail for power which makes them unsuitable for operating at the street or surface level.

[@SRJason747]

Denver is actually connected to the national rail network! The interlocking right outside union station connects the track used by Amtrak and the Light rail tracks together. As far as I know that is the only connection between the two networks.

[@NullReference119]

So RTD's 'light rail' alignment does have an interconnection with BNSF. The derail is just south of the 10th and Osage station and just north of the Mariposa yard (there is not surprisingly a crossover just south of that which makes it easy to get into said yard when delivering rolling stock). It is not surprisingly right into what used to be the Burnham yard. That said as far as I can tell, this exists for delivering rolling stock only.

[@Hyce777]

Is that light rail? Or commuter? I'm interested now...

[@NullReference119]

@@Hyce777 The Mariposa yard is Light rail only. That derail has been there as long as I can remember riding RTD light rail (since it opened). The commuter rail alignment (A line) I've never ridden. I assume it has a separate interconnection and derail close to the relevant yard. If you're trying to find it on google maps you can spot it just south of 10th and Osage. You can also see some really cool features at the Burnham yard that used to exist right there as well. There is the remains of a turntable and a transfer table (if I'm reading the image right) there. You can see the former from the light rail, but not the latter due to minor changes in elevation going into 10th and Osage.

[@NullReference119]

@@Hyce777 One minor correction, that alignment is probably the UP alignment, not the shared BNSF/UP north south main. Burnham yard IIRC was UP up until 2021, it's now CDOT and they are apparently considering using it for commuter rail?

[@Hyce777]

@@NullReference119 huh! Well that's neat. I'll have to look into that. Cheers!

[@genoobtlp4424]

Well, I‘m from Switzerland where, at least in a legal sense, there’s just railways, though there’s generally visible differences between standard gauge rail, narrow gauge rail, trams and trolley buses… at first glance, but aside from a standard gauge tram, I think we have it all: pax EMU running freight trains, street running „heavy“ rail with curbside boarding, single ended tram, double ended tram, single ended tram as light rail, standard gauge tram as heavy rail, trams using a metro tunnel, commuter train in metro tunnel, narrow/standard gauge changing trains. Okay, the metro trains as heavy rail have been scrapped, but instead we have narrow gauge doing 75mph. Narrow gauge rack railway, standard gauge rack railway, „the cog“ interchanging cars with the „big“ railway. Okay, we don’t have it in Diesel traction, it’s all electric, but what else is missing?

[@petrfedor1851]

Funily enough under Czech law trolleybusses are considered rail, including parcial ones.

[@genoobtlp4424]

@@petrfedor1851 same here, a battery bus with trolley poles needs a tram license; same model without poles gets a license plate and needs a Bus license (hess double articulated with batteries)

[@Ghfvhvfg]

Oh yea absurd i level seperated trams why i like street runing regular trains

[@michelvanloon7871]

Check out "randstadrail" in The Netherlands. The line The Hague - Zoetermeer runs like a tram in The Hague itself, and runs like lightrail with higher speeds to Zoetermeer on a former railway line. This line is partially shared with the "slinge lijn" from The Hague to Rotterdam. Which is classified as a metro. Also running on former railway track. You can see different platform hights in a station, because the tram/lightrail unit is lower than the metro unit. From light to heavy you would have : tram /streetcar, lightrail, metro, regional or intercity train. It gets confusing when rolling stock is doing multiple modes. S-bahn classification in Germany is also a good example where rolling stock do different modes in different cities. (Some stock is more train like, others are more heavy metro like, depending on the city) but they serve the same function.

[@hvfd5956]

You hit home with this one. Up in Seattle, I have seen several different transit varieties. On the other end of the Alaska Airlines non-stop is Austin, Texas. Here we have a big mess train wise. Capitol Metro wanted a train really really bad. Really bad. They had Federal funds burning a hole in their pocket, so they bought and re-built the old MKT line from around Marble Falls to Giddings. They contracted with a company over in Europe to build it some cars and it took forever. They built us 5 pairs of cars with a mini-diesel-electric pusher in the middle. ("Commuter RailRoad") Meanwhile some former train folk started the Austin Western Railroad. They operate a small yard here with a number of tracks and an apparently good Diesel shop as well. In better weather, it is not unusual to see an engine minus it's hood sitting in the yard. Not far from the yard is the Austin White Lime plant, which had lots of land. That now has 3 or 4 Wye's to allow traffic to and from UP, BNSF, and one other to transition to and from the Austin and Western track. Austin and Western was eventually sold to the WAMX system. So as to help Capitol Metro, they leased the line to run freight on it, outside of the commuter time frame and on weekends. A few years ago, a new bond issue came through for the third or fourth time and it finally squeaked through, so now there are two more lines of "Light Rail" being planned. Some of that may end up converted to Commuter Rail because some folks started to question why the existing trains couldn't run on the new lines. Near my house in Hutto, we have a UP mainline that is mostly east bound only. I would expect it to be paired with a line running west bound, but don't know yet. There is some west bound traffic, mostly Amtrak going into Austin or San Antonio and gravel buckets going out to Marble Falls for gravel to build the new Samsung chip plant in Taylor. It started as a single building. The day they got that through city council, they submitted plans for 5 more buildings. Now it has been expanded to include a water reclamation facility (Blue Sky Project) and a gas plant for Linde to make exotic gases needed to make chips. My dream is to get some land near some track and a driveway siding. Then get a 1940's Alco mini like they used to(and I think still have) at the Texas State Railroad. I got a cab ride in that one around 2006 as my ham radio group did Field Day in the park, including operating call sign N5W from the old MKT caboose.

[@VideoCyberspace]

The fact that he used the LA Metro train as a thumbnail made me happy.

[@UncleBadT]

my home city built the LRT as i was a kid. the many PSA's telling us kids the cars are 50t each, and are NOT light. They WILL kill you if you cut across the tracks.

[@xanukraine]

“Light” would usually refer to the concept of lower load per axel or per unit of train length (meter, feet or whatever your poison is), compared to typical mainline train.

[@Frederick-in2rz]

It's just probably a term invented by a politician that doesn't want to frighten people away from the word, Trams

[@T_R_H_HB]

Yes to all the proposed videos. I personally love all minutiae details. I don't know why but I had the notion that the Class 1 ran on 190 pound rail. I don't have any Idea where that thought might have come from.

[@IronHorsefan1869]

RTD's Tracks do connect with Amtrak Tracks at Denver Union Station so they do interconnect there

[@MachRacer4]

The way I view light rail systems is like this. A modern take on a streetcar system used by cities that got rid of streetcars decades ago but now regret it. Take Saint Paul and Minneapolis in Minnesota where I live. We used to have a streetcar/interurban system, of which Hyce operated one of those cars in his review of the streetcars at the EBT, until sometime between the late 40’s to the early 60’s but they’re bringing back the idea as a light rail system.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

A video discussing weights of rail (and how it can impact track classification) would be interesting and welcome.

[@DanTheCaptain]

Most North American “light rail” that use high floor vehicles like LA Metro, Seattle LINK, San Francisco MUNI, Calgary C-Train, etc., etc., I consider LRT. Anything else, my European half will call a tram. Most modern tram/streetcar systems these days will be at graded but have its own right of way and operate low-floor vehicles. Of course there’s an insane amount of variability and there are some systems that blur the lines of this, but I generally go by this rule of thumb. So stuff like the new Edmonton Valley Line, and Toronto Lines 5 & 6 I’d consider more of a tram even though the latter is mostly in an underground tunnel.

[@johnprice867]

Hey Hyce,are you going to be chasing4014 on the trip to Roseville CA and back, im north of wendover nv. And south of Montello so im going to try for perhaps some shots around shafter Saturday snd the summit of "valley pass" the 19th on the eastbound trip. As well as laray pass on its way down. When iwas 13 i got to(with assistance) pull the throttle on ex N&W #578 at the ohio railway museum i was the youngest " jr. Member" and in the 1970's had the privilege of opetating just about anything and everything we had that would run! Lol

[@ellisjackson336]

04:50 they have that in San Jose

[@battlehawk77]

Great explanations! Would love to see something about the signaling system LRT uses. :)

[@chriswitmer9754]

We recently (5-6 years) introduced a LRT system. Our local sub-reddit has a “days since someone’s hit the LRT”. For some reason large bright signs that say “NO TURN - TRAIN” are taken as a suggestion or in some cases a dare.

[@kristenburnout1]

I voluenteer at the Trondheim Tramway Museum, which runs historical trams on the most northern tram/streetcar line in the world, the meter gauge Gråkallen Line in Trondheim, Norway. This line really illustrates the gray line between tram/streetcar, light rail and heavy rail: It was built in 1924 as a private suburban rail line (forstadsbane) separate from the city's "normal" tramway, and the rolling stock was a blend between proper heavy rail and trams from the era, but not really being either. It also has signalling, but uses a train staff when the signalling system is inoperative. Even more confusingly, this line was later taken over by the city-owned tram company and they ended up running normal city trams on it (albeit with some modifications to make them more "train-like", like having proper lights, brakes and whistles). And even more confusingly, when the Trondheim Tramway then ordered new trams in the 80's, they were referred to by the manufacturer as "Light rail vehicles". The rest of the city's tramway was closed in the late 80's, and this single suburban rail line is now what remains of the tramway, despite not really being a tramway. Reality is confusing sometimes. Anyway, you are welcome to visit our museum if you ever come to Trondheim, Hyce! :)

[@johnsmith9165]

It should be noted that in the transit realm, "heavy rail" generally refers to subway/metro/underground/u-bahn/MRT/rapid transit systems- basically everywhere calls these something different, but "metro" is the most common in international discussions and doesn't have misleading implications about the alignment like subway or underground do, so it's usually what transit people prefer, with "heavy rail" being used mostly when talking to politicians and the general public who don't know much about trains to distinguish it from light rail. The main difference between metro/"heavy rail" and light rail is that metro systems are fully grade-separated, though a couple older systems that have all the other typical features of a metro like system-wide high-floors, level boarding, and high frequencies have a few at-grade crossings grandfathered in, like Oslo and Chicago. Light rail is honestly a pretty deliberately vague term, which can be used to describe anything from a tiny useless modern streetcar like in Milwaukee or DC up to something barely a step removed from a full metro like in Seattle or LA, and is often wrongly applied even to things that most definitely are not light rail, like the Montreal REM or Honolulu Skyline, both of which are full grade-separated heavy rail metros that got called "light rail" by people who assume any new system opened in North America is light rail because that's what most of the new stuff built recently is. By using such vague terminology, people can wind up approving an Atlanta Streetcar thinking they're getting a Calgary C-Train. Mainline short-distance passenger trains that primarily serve one city and its surrounding area are regional rail if you're talking about good systems that run reasonably frequent all-day bidirectional service and "commuter rail" if you're talking about the terrible North American systems that run a handful of trains from the suburbs to the central business district in the morning, a handful from the CBD to the suburbs in the evening, and pretty much nothing else, ensuring that they're only useful for suburbanites commuting to downtown 9-5 office jobs and completely worthless for literally any other trip.

[@JasperHuskyFox]

I would love to hear about how some LRT/Light Rail signalling works. I've seen some systems, and OC Transpo (the one I've studied the most) have very odd signals. When the doors close and lock, only then the signal ahead of the driver turns green. They definitely don't act like standard mainline signaling, especially since they only have Red, Green, and sometimes Lunar I would love to see a Signals 101 Light Rail Edition!

[@dfor]

The issue with light rail signalling is that different systems use different signals. For example I drive LRTs for the MAX system in Portland. We have both pre-empt and ABS (auto block signal) territory. In pre-empt it’s pretty simple. Yellow horizontal line means stop. White vertical line means clear to proceed. If the yellow horizontal is flashing that is an indication that white vertical is about to come up, but still means stop. If the white vertical is flashing that’s basically the equivalent of a yellow light to cars where the preemption is about to time out and to stop if you can before the intersection. ABS there are 4 different aspects or colors that a signal head might have. Red is stop, yellow is clear for 1 block, green is clear for 2 blocks, and lunar which is clear to proceed tracks may not be clear. Lunar is really only used when the ABS block leads into preempted intersections without crossing gates. That’s mostly at interlockings. ABS signals can also have multiple aspects illuminated at once if you’re on a route other than the “A” route. In Portland our system is pretty heavily interlined so we have quite a few interlockings that different lines go different directions from, so you need to know if the switches are set for your move. Having 2 aspects illuminated means you’re on the B route, 3 is C, 4 is D, 5 is E. If you’re going on that alternate route without any intermediate signals, the aspect would be Red over Yellow for B, red over red over yellow for C, etc. could also be Red over Green as long as there is an intermediate after the B or C route switches. If there is an intermediate before the route change, it would be Yellow over Green etc. and if there are 2 intermediates it would be Green over Green. There are also combination ABS/Preempt signals but there aren’t very many of those in use.

[@JasperHuskyFox]

@@dfor oh yea that makes sense, no problem