Limbus Company Is Breaking the Mold of Powercreep in Gacha Games

[@RolandGamin]

I think that limbus is a very different gacha game tbh; when you buy the battle pass, you don't even need to do gacha pulls, it's like you've directly purchased the game.

[@Isomeria450]

Battle Pass is just your monthly sub to the game XD

[@ThirdKindredCuriambro]

Limbus company does gacha right because pjm doesnt know how to do gacha

[@justoisin4193]

@@ThirdKindredCuriambroat least they’re getting paid

[@freezyoffreezers726]

Not monthly, more of seasonal (3-4 months)

[@nemuiexe]

​@B.a.z.z796 depends on what type of gacha we are talking about though the new gens (hoyo gacha as a whole) or the og gacha

[@Reynnan123]

Instead of powercreep limbus has coolnesscreep

[@wifiwodhyde]

Animationcreep, wordcountscreep, dripcreep, artcreep, hypecreep, pagescreep,..

[@zifer123]

Wild Hunt Heath didn't just powercreep he also dripcreeped everyone

[@carboncatcherla5341]

look at erlcliffs sprite next to any other character and you’ll see how much effort they put into it to make it better than anything else

[@doneedanickname3522]

Even the latest identity, Cinq West Meursalt looks, feels and acts wildly different from most earlier identities, even from just Season 3

[@drakonlegend4452]

@@doneedanickname3522compare his skill 1 to K-corp hong lu skill 1

[@Llamanator_]

Limbus is the only game where I'll happily shell out for the BP to support the green marker man and his team. Coincidentally it's also the only gacha where I own around 90% of all units that have been released since day one.

[@escopeteroce]

Only 90%? You avoid pulling on walpurgis so you can redeem them later on with boxes?

[@Llamanator_]

@@escopeteroce Nah I just haven't bothered sharding some s1 IDs since I'll get them from gacha eventually.

[@Bearinabar]

You gotta factor in burnouts aswell. I'd much rather skip a few old units than have all the IDs to flex and uninstall the game 3 weeks later because I'm doing 3-4 mds everyday for a year. You have alot of teamcomps for having all of the recently released ids anyways.

[@Un_Named05]

I saw someone at Limbus Pass level 7000 on the reddit. I think that means Jihoon owes them money now 😂

[@SheruMuko]

What the actual… I thought mine of 340 was impressive. Send my regards and my respects.

[@MrWolfoyote]

@@SheruMuko 340 is 17 weeks of MDH. By the end of S4 I had like 660 and I'm not playing that much, mostly new content, events and weekly dungeons. So, it's fine.

[@Plaugus_Screenz]

​@@SheruMuko my end of season 4 BP lv was around 1755

[@hugwhitedog8649]

I'm pretty sure that person is NITAMOG00I , a tryhard japanese

[@Student4Life89]

​@@SheruMuko i ended previous battle pass at Level 1778 so ...

[@themilkssiah]

Limbus does have a power creep but I’d say it’s less to do with making units more powerful instead PM has just gotten a lot better at designing fun units for the game. If you look at the launch units it’s really clear that PM didn’t really know what to do with Limbus and designed a lot of units like they would work for Ruina (KK Hong Lu’s skill 3 boosting the amount of debuffs applied for example, if you haven’t played Ruina that’s a very common design philosophy for that game)

[@donvitopatata]

Yeah, "featurecreep" and gimmicks are the main difference. W Don, R heath (fell off due to chain, but still has the 4 fragile niche), R Ish, Nclair and so on still hold up really well

[@DenDen-fv8bf]

limbus powercreep is only about season 1 ids, because they are actual mess But well people said theres will be solution to this soon

[@anothenblue2630]

Correction: early Ruina. Ruina by the end of the game, it was mostly designed to just give you bigger numbers, the rest were either irrelevant or really niche gimmicks. Ratio of interesting launch IDs was still greater than it is for interesting lategame Ruina keypages.

[@themilkssiah]

@@anothenblue2630 You’re not entirely wrong, I think the Reverb Ensemble pages were a big let down, but that philosophy does carry over to at least star of the city with cards like violent flame and snake’s prey still adding that +1 to applied statuses even that late in the game. And yes, there is a greater focus on dice power later on, for better or for worse, but I just can’t agree with you to say that key pages like any of R corp’s or the Purple Tear’s are less fun than say, Gyeong-Mi or the Rusted Chains who I would say both had a really niche mechanic that you’re straight-up at a disadvantage for playing into

[@anothenblue2630]

@@themilkssiah I was actually including SotC and UN keypages there. IC isn't where it gets bad, that happens way earlier. SotC and UN having some interesting or wacky effect doesn't change the fact that most of them weren't like that (UN also gave us Smoke, the single dumbest status in the game) PT is not fun because she breaks the game no matter what you do unless you pick Guard stance or suck at making decks. Meanwhile, R Corp is extremely braindead, with Myo gaining excessive amounts of power for basically existing, Nikolai giving everyone power for basically existing and applying a massive damage increase by simply attacking someone, Maxim gaining a massive damage increase for basically existing and Rudolph, well, he sucks because his gimmick never works. Their design is garbage compared to Cane Office, which balances gaining and spending Charge and doesn't instantly win the game for doing the most basic things. Rusted Chainlink sucks only because you literally don't have any other means of gaining Bleed that aren't their pages, which are Urban Plague and therefore not viable later. Meanwhile, Gyeong-mi's gimmick is actually really strong and fun because you can make decks focusing on abusing Brawl like Brawl Boris or Brawl Grit Bayard. There is actual thought required for it and a decent reward if you can figure it out.

[@jamesvenom9834]

I am a new player and I have played Library of Ruina before. I was initially disappointed to hear project moon made Limbus a gacha but now, after playing the game itself, I was surprised to see how f2p friendly it is and some core units of teams are like 1yr old. Project moon's respect increased in my eyes after this.

[@jimjones9631]

I remember reading a review that was "Project moon decided they wanted to make a gacha game and failed and accidentally made a real game instead"

[@LeafGreen250]

Project moon dosent know how to make a gatcha, that is why they did a good game instead

[@eleuuuuu]

I DON'T pay for anything in game, but PM, through SHEER peak and goodwill (of all things, dang) convinced me to buy the pass. Who would have thought that just making a good game would make gamers open their wallets 😂

[@LongNguyen-cz5ty]

@@eleuuuuuwell, because you got your money worth. I haven’t played other gacha games, but I’ve heard it’s like pouring money into a pit. Don’t know if that’s true though.

[@jimjones9631]

@eleuuuuu right? It also doesn't hurt that they said they use it to fund their other games and as someone who loves the universe they build since Lobotomy Corporation, I'll happily give them money for respecting me as a consumer

[@heathucliffuu]

I lost my Catherine to powercreep...

[@aweirdlookingcat3707]

Who?

[@WhymeR]

Your what?

[@franciscoramadhan9156]

damn bro :'(, who is that again?

[@ST4R3X487]

can you tell me who is that?

[@hazmamuffin1013]

Who?

[@cln4m36]

Limbus has powerceep not in stats but in page and word counts. Yeah the one with more pages is usually the better id but than again the old one can still be used with no expense of your power.

[@StuHol-jb1hh]

This, need i remind people that lcorp survivor Faust can roll 26es on skill 3, and the only requirement is that she took no damage the previous turn. Or that g-gregor has the best healing support in the game. or rcorp heathcliff being the god of dps, and being the primary reason for the scaling system rebalance.

[@BoxCox]

I don't know why people are coping this hard. Limbus has powercreep. Number power creep. You look at RE ryo, Butterfly Sang, New Mersault ID and don't even start on the Ring Sang. The numbers are gradually rising. Remember when 11 s1 was like... average?

[@rakuriku1149]

Limbus have LITERAL power creep​@@BoxCox

[@huynhquang-ez7mm]

@@BoxCox It is condition creep. Those skill dont have coin power condition when new one had. I just hope they gona add uptie 5 and give old ID some condition like they did with uptie 4 when season 2 come out.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

Pkwer creep units #1 Swei Rodya Outside of MD, and even inside of MD she can VARELY Roll average I know I use her as part of the Blunt aide of BL group

[@TheRovingPunster]

Project Moon mentioned! Glory to KimJihoon

[@somebodyoncetoldme1141]

Project moon mentioned in a video about Project Mo- WAIT A MINUTE HOLY SHIT DID I JUST MENTION PROJECT MOON A POPULAR SOUTH KOREA GAME STUDIO WHAT RELEASED HIT GAME LIMBUS COMPANY?!

[@LimmbuusCompanyyy]

Glory to limbus company

[@Ayin-b3k]

Glory to limmmbus company

[@Johnheartbreaking]

The only gacha i ever plan on playing

[@Plaugus_Screenz]

Glory to Kim Jihoon

[@DanteFromLimbuscompany]

ALL FUCKIN HEL TO PROJECT MOON!!!!!!!!!

[@Rizzgyatters]

nowayyy it's the "limbus companyyyyy" girl herself

[@Ariamaki]

It's also notable that even this video's main example of Limbus' version of powercreep (Solemn Yi Sang vs. Spicebush Yi Sang) is... more of a lateral move? Sinking Deluge is still unparalleled for single bursts of damage, and has no replacement, while native access to AoE skills is extremely strong. Meanwhile Solemn Lament's Butterflies are better at sustained damage across many turns and his base skill ranges are consistently better. This is before mentioning (as you rightly did) the limited access window for Walpurgisnacht IDs. Even when Limbus has an ID that gets into the starting range of power creep, it's still more of a sidegrade / debatable option, and I appreciate that a lot.

[@daboss4318]

Zwei Sinclair...

[@TheBucketBrigade]

@@daboss4318 Zwei Sinclair wasn't powercrept because it was ALWAYS bad. I mean myself and a few others I know used base SInclair more than any of his Season 1 IDs during Season 1 (before N Corp Sinclair released because if we wanna talk power Creep this ID swept every Sinclair ID until Cinq/Dawn Office IDs released) because his base ID was overall generally his best ID at the time. There wasn't really enough IDs across all the Sinners to make full team builds for Bleed, Poise, Rupture, etc of the many team comps so you had to rely mostly just on what was generally good all around. The only thing Zwei Sinclair had going for it was the high rolling Skill 3 but honestly you could say the same about Blade Lineage Sinclair when it comes to that positive. "But he got a 2nd Zwei ID, it's obvious power creep" They have some different mechanics, they really only share a name/association, rarity rating, and tremor. But one is essentially a story ID which we see every new chapter a Sinner gets an ID based off one of the characters they interact with in said chapter, whether it be a villain we see for 1 encounter or a character we interact with across multiple nodes during the entire chapter. One of the things that wasn't mentioned in the video is how Limbus also has ways of making IDs better with Uptie. Back when they introduced uptie level 4 it fixed quite a few Old IDs that just didn't do well (Like W Corp Meursault) but other IDs (Like R Corp Heath) benefitted very little but in those cases most were already incredibly good and didn't need much from Uptie 4. When we get (and will probably get another one sooner or later) a new Uptie Level previously 'bad' IDs might become viable again in some builds. So in my opinion Limbus Company does have a good way of bringing Old IDs back into viability with the Uptie system we just have to wait for them to add new levels and see how well they fit into the current builds/meta.

[@daboss4318]

@@TheBucketBrigade Umm. thats a bit too much text. Yes uptie 4 was a good precedent however it didnt truly solve the issue - most top ids from launch are still top, and most horrible are still horrible, or gimmicky at best. I still never seen W sault and never played him despite having all charge ids in the game, i thought that kuro rodyas counter S3 was promising, but they didnt fix her poise. The only id they trully fixed with uptie 4 is R ishmael, which is not that big of a result. Uptie 4 is great idea with average execution and without any continuation (yet). Game is still relatively new, so we dont know how PM will fare.

[@alexanderartaza2173]

@@daboss4318 you have BL don for poise issues, and captmael

[@Ariamaki]

@@daboss4318 OG Zwei Sinclair was a taxonomic mistake and might not actually be an identity at all. :V

[@yokuutsu9097]

As an avid PM fan that nolifes Limbus, the "power creep " is mostly the team realizing how they want to release/design new characters. At first in Season 1, IDs were designed like Ruina, and then they've got wordier, drippier, and COOLER. Powercreep is coolness creep.

[@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs]

I still remember the day they released fishmael. That wacky camera movement was the beginning of things beyond our imagination with camera works

[@eryx0329]

Limbus right now i would say does have a bit of powercreep, specially with old content and IDs that have been outclassed long ago, but limbus does have an answer to this issue, that being new Upties. Last time Uptie IV was introduced it basically like buffed the old IDs and gave very minor and subtle changes to newer IDs and content of that time. For example it turned what was arguably the worst ID of the game, Warp mersault, into a viable option, and for teams, made IDs that where being left behind like Reindeer Ishmael much better, and made Blade lineage yisang be an actual good ID till this day. While this happened, the already strong units of that time like chef Ryoshu, or Ncorp Sinclair got very subtle and small changes to ensure that the other IDs would be able to catch up to them somewhat. And i suspect that such a phenomena would repeat itself in due time as limbus releases more content, eventually dropping an Uptie V with that very same objective of making old IDs be able to catch up again with newer content. And i'd say the cost wouldnt necessarily be the same one as before, so maybe pm does get more creative rather than just putting a higher cost of thread and shards again for the new upties, after all they recently introduced a selection menu of different uptie currencies! doubt they'd introduce that without an idea already in mind for it.

[@eeroke12]

They should honestly go back to rebalance some of those launch IDs. Liu Gregor is booty butt asscheeks even at uptie 4, so's the whole zwei squad before Faust, etc etc. I also hope they consider making some different kind of upgrade outside of uptying because the resource cost is getting fucking ridiculous lmao.

[@eryx0329]

@@eeroke12 The rebalance of old IDs going by their history in applying this change before will just be Uptie 5(like how i said in the comment that they upgraded several old IDs going by Uptie 4), and as for a different kind of upgrade its hard to say what else they could even add, what i see be more reasonable is just adding more ways for one to Uptie something or adding better methods for such uptying IDs and content.

[@Punsmaster2]

Zwei South Sinclair was a launch ID we just got Zwei West Sinclair.... I don't think bro's getting fixed by uptie V

[@Zacks234]

I think Uptie 5 will be rework mania for all the old ids. Like give them better passives, better numbers, add effects, etc. Season 5 ids will get the same boost at Uptie 4 and lastly newere IDs will geta small boost.

[@icarus255]

What I like about Limbus Company is that it doesn't feel like something that forces players on pulling or buying new IDs, along with its Battle Pass which is rewarding despite getting the free stuff only. It doesn't go on psychological manipulation where it makes players try so much just because a new ID came out. Take Wild Hunt Heathcliff for example in the past few weeks. He is a powerful ID that's for sure, but that doesn't mean if you don't have it, doesn't mean you can't win much of the battles. I have my Multicrack Heathcliff and it feels like a powerful starter and it doesn't punish me much for using a tier 2 ID. It also have the same case as Pequod Yi Sang despite being at tier 2 ID, he does damage almost the same as S3 of Solemn Lament Yi Sang. All I can say here is it depends on players' playstyle they prefer (either damage or clash potential) and its a good thing for those who wants to experiment.

[@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs]

He he. Yi sang goes stab stab Stab STAB STAB! Is my fav

[@SamForShort]

Another nice thing about Limbus is that any new pull is just going to be a variation of the same 12 characters. So unlike in a lot of other gacha games, you don't need to abandon you're favorite chracter because a stronger one came out

[@mao38]

I love babysitting my 12 children

[@weedsoldierreal]

​@@mao3812 mentally ill children

[@migueltorosalinas5815]

In some cases you do abandon your favourite character, because the new id is so different personality wise you can't really say they are the same character, aka Kromer faust

[@mao38]

@@migueltorosalinas5815 and that's why there's different IDs for different kind of teams

[@simplyeyeronic1443]

Another interesting thing: Bad ids can have a second chance at redemption if they have a good support passive. The first Zwei sinclair is horrid but he has an incredible passive. Many of the base sinners also have really good passives.

[@awl5451]

what's funnier is that you CAN play the entire game on just base IDs if you're well-versed in the game's mechanics not only that, but limbus company is actually very whale-unfriendly, cause f2p players can pretty easily keep up even if you spend real money on the game, and afaik you can't pay your way through actually levelling up and uptying the IDs you get, you need to grind like everyone else tho grind is also not necessary to enjoy the game imo, you don't have to constantly stay on top of everything

[@eeroke12]

You can very easily whale to get materials and thread and shit but it's just not worth it compared to swiping for pulls straight up luhmeow

[@nediacheese]

YOU CAN WIN WITH ONLY BASE ID'S??????

[@nemesisbest6]

@@nediacheese Yeah, it's insane when I see people defeat bosses that were difficult for more built teams. For example in canto 7's last boss, that thing seemed impossible to me with just base sinners but people still do it somehow.

[@dandyshark6094]

@@nemesisbest6 and solo to add ;v

[@BullyBilly-q1y]

Limbus company is the best gacha game i have ever touched. Will be grinding 117 hours and more.

[@drec_is_here5229]

The odds of me pulling cool units back to back with Limbus Company was 80% compared to other gacha games

[@polackdyn]

Been playing some gachas. Arknights would drop a literal god of a unit once in a while and then had to ramp up content cause stuff was too easy for people who pulled, cough Młynar cough Texas cough but you could still clear all with your brain and units you love. PGR separated units into teams so clearing end game content required cooperation of 3 units at once. But did not escape power creep as they started making more busted characters of the existing elements. Been playing WuWa for some time now and it's still quite new but it seems like so far you can play whatever, cause elemental teams are not required anymore so I am just investing into characters I find cool. Just make sure to have like 3 fully build teams to clear the currency content. And then there's Limbus. The only game I stuck with for over a year. Power creep? More like drip creep. The animations and outfits for new characters stomp the previously released ones. Even when they are from the same faction, like release W Don vs new W Outis. And the fact the game respects your time so much is just almost unbelievable. Buy the battle pass for peanuts once every 4 months (more or less) and bam, you bought the game. Cause the only characters you have to roll for are during the limited event that we like to call Walpipi. Featured characters there are indeed powerful but they are usually just an addition to the status effect team. Sometimes they are the saviour of said team, like Burn who lacked a lot of fire power, pun intended, and got saved by Walpipi Outis and Walpipi Sinclair and now is very fun to run. I think the biggest win for Limbus is that the new "characters" are the same 12 sinners just in different timelines so it's more like getting skins with benefits. You don't need to cast away your favorite character. Just dress him up differently and voila. You can still play with your Rodion or Faust or Hong Lu. They jsut look different and may be more suitable to a different team. I adore this concept.

[@simplythecat4068]

Wait till you see wisadel LMAO, though tbf AK is still more of a game about niches and your skill in utilizing them and strategizing around them. Wisadel, mlynar or texas wouldn't save you on the last CC. When it comes to games like PGR or WUWA the only kind of gameplay they present is timer DPS racing buttonmash snoozefest. Kill everything as fast as possible as hard as possible and nothing else matters, which naturally leads to powercreep since the devs shoehorned themselves into ONLY being able to sell powercreep to their players. Limbus is sort of more like AK in that sense, you don't have a strict turn limit most of the time (looking at you, reverse 1999) which doesn't force you into heavily dps focused strats so you can mess around however you want.

[@VinhKhanhNgo-rr5vx]

Walter 💀 Truly a Walter moment 💀

[@cyz3566]

I think aside from being able to get new IDs with shards, another thing that lets Limbus Company avoid Power Creep is the implementation of *Offense Level*. Even though old IDs don't have skills that roll as high as newer ones or have as much special mechanics, they are still very serviceable if you simply stick to leveling them to max because leveling an Identity doesn't increase how high the skill numbers go, but rather their Offense Level (which influences clashing and damage). This means you aren't pressured to obtain new IDs at all, because you can beat the current content with a relatively old team.

[@juanangelninogomez2800]

It's true, I have a full team of n corp fanatics maxed out, since I like their aesthetic and way of playing, and I'm able to finish the latest content even thou they are one of the oldest IDs.

[@FriendOfHatkid]

I'd say that limbus does has powercreep. But it is not that drastic as in a lot of other cases. Even some of the older units can work really well in some setups (I love running Seven Ryoshu and Lob corp remnant Faust from time to time, but someone like KK Hong Lu, Shi Ish and Heath, N Heath, Lccb Ish and some others often work really good) but at the same time, some just don't have a niche (Zwei Sinclair (old one) and Rodya, KK Rodya, etc). And newer 2 stars can also be really fun, like Pequod Yi Sang and Ring Outis. It is the type of powercreep where you can feel it, but you can also ignore it, and you won't lose much, especially since almost all of the content is easy, even refraction railways aren't that hard. I am a sinner, and I play 3 hoyoverse gachas: genshin, honkai starrail and zenless zone zero, and they are... Well they are complicated. Genshin is an open world game, and everything is buolt around a team, like in limbus, so almost every unit has a niche that can even clear the gardest content with enough investment, hsr is the closest in powercreep's feel with limbus, you still can consider older units for a specific team centered about a dmg type you need, tho sustain is powercreeping a bit too hard for my liking (and I don't wanna go in depth about Acheron, Firefly and Feixiao now, cuz I am honestly not even that active about the kits now, I mistly play for the story and only for the story), and zzz could potentially be the worst scale of powercreep, but the game is too new to think about it

[@jasonmagnes4467]

Remnant Faust is still hella good in a classic tremor team, wth are you on about

[@FriendOfHatkid]

@@jasonmagnes4467 firstly, what is a classic tremor setup. Second, I didn't said remnant Faust is bad. On the contrary, I like her. So, what are you on about is a better question

[@jasonmagnes4467]

@@FriendOfHatkid right i missread, my bad 😔

[@quinnmaster504]

ngl i feel like KK Rodya has a (very fragile) niche as the only slightly passable Rodya ID that can apply bleed for Sanguine Desire EGO Passive. Sure, it's very situational, but that IS 20 bleed potancy on S3 and 10 bleed potency on S2. Completely outclassed the moment she gets a proper bleed ID, but for now it is solid.

[@FriendOfHatkid]

@@quinnmaster504 well, ye, you got the point. And, like, it's kinda dumb that Rodya has 3 bleed ids and none of them are good. Someone even argued that Base Rodya might be the best bleed id for Rodya, since she does has the potential to inflict a lot of it. But ye. KK is probably for now better. But I ain't using her with my Ring Yi Sang team, KK Ryoshu is better for more debuffs (I would have used Lob Ego Ryoshu IF I HAD ONE, 80 PULLS AND ONLY 1 TINGTANG HONG LU(

[@daydreaminsanity]

playing limbus company is pretty refreshing for a gacha and the story is like im reading a manhwa

[@mrjaku633]

3:00 Or 3 Hard Mirror Dungeon runs with the weekly bonus, which is not grindy at all

[@ntern2162]

2:59 if i remember correctly, full 5 stage clear gives you 50 "0", which became 225 with weekly reward(+4 with weekky challenge). So if you would farm only weekly you would get 23 without bp, and 69(nice) with bp, so 3 times to get around 200 crates. I just dont understand where comes that number(22-23 runs)

[@MilkshakeMan06]

@@ntern2162i didn't take the weekly bonus into account. Thanks for reminding me 👍

[@wumi2419]

22-23 runs is MDN (or MDH, they give the same without weekly). Each run is 3 BP levels. Weeklies make it a lot better, you can reasonably expect to shard a 3* ID per week. With 1 MDH run and 9 levels from BP objectives you get 31 out of 67 levels, so 12 MDN runs. Weekly module cost is 18 + 7*(3+2) + 60 = 113, 84 you get from enke over time. 29 you need to get from refills, which comes up to 1 pull or a bit more if you get 5 modules per refill.

[@xarksins]

Honestly when they first announced limbus as a gacha game to fund themselves I have ready to drop a lot of money (not that i haven't). Now if only we could get offical merch of the game.

[@agenttechnaid5438]

You can get merch from hamhampangpang restaurent One problem tho, it's only in korea

[@xarksins]

@@agenttechnaid5438 actually they also have merch in anime store like Amimate but it all exclusive to japan.

[@kyzzn]

Wake up Babe, new MilkshakeMann upload! (i love your content ahhhhhh)

[@MilanesaConPure]

Nice vid, I love that about Limbus Company more than the P.E.A.K stories and characters. A new ID comes out, but your others IDs are still strong and usable, heck, even the 1st season IDs have some use too, specially with MD. Then there's HSR. I had my favorite characters that I build and grow being replaced by another one, like, 8 times already. Mind you I had a LOT of luck with pulls, but still, it's annoying. I still enjoy both games of course, and HSR made a mode where literally ALL characters are usable, go with your favorite waifu/husbando or go meta, or both. So yeah, gambling is bad people.

[@uluparon4793]

Limbus powercreep is more of a gimmick creep as most of the new ids that comes with a new gimmick tends to either be a hit or a miss but if they do hit then new ids with identical gimmicks tend to have a kit with a better sense of direction, just like how Coin power from meeting a certain amount of status or meeting the condition wasnt that used often back then and now most new IDs tend to use this gimmick to this day, its also why the new rupture ids are bringing in the new rupture gimmick all though theyre not crazy in terms of rupture yet but later on the gimmick gets fleshed out and becomes better in general. All though powercreep only happens when old gimmicks are just outclassed to the new gimmicks like 7Outis and the new rupture ids or Rhino Meursault who is about to be powercrept in use soon once the new Bleed focused identities drop

[@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs]

To be fair. Mersault is mersaul. Give everyone exept mr sault a nuts bleed id and you will still see rhino due to chains of others.

[@shining_cat]

I like the idea of your video but I think you did a poor job at it. I expected to find out why Limbus breaks the mold of powercreep but you spent the first half of the video (until 2:37) explaining what powercreep is and what it means for games, then in the last part of the video explained how Limbus has a different gacha system that allows you to easily guarantee characters. You did not explain why or how Limbus does powercreep differently, only how it does not affect the game as much given it's easy to obtain every unit. But the issue still remains, if they keep releasing stronger units the older ones get overshadowed. I am not saying all this to hate, I think this could be done better. I think Limbus does handle powercreep better than most live service games and it's not because you can obtain every character. I think Limbus does it better because they do not necessarily release stronger and stronger units with time, it's not rare for them to put out a "weak" or middle of the pack unit like Deyvat Rodya or most of the 2*s who while decent at their own roles are not necessarily broken or anything, and the strong units they put out, while undeniably game changing in their own teams are still most often bound to an archetype of some sort, even among the same team archetype different IDs have different purposes. To bring up the example of Yi Sang's sinking IDs used in the video: While Solemn Lament is way better at clashing and dealing damage, he doesn't have an evade which is useful and he doesn't have the ability to apply sinking deluge this means Spicebush is still sometimes better like if you want to blow up a boss with 2000 damage deluge. Lastly I want to clarify that these methods of dealing with powercreep do not entirely fix the issue, they only mitigate it, water it down. It's a really good strategy because it means the older units will not become irrelevant so quickly and it does not feel nearly as oppressive as in other gachas but the problem can still be seen in some cases like Ring Yisang who is so blatantly overpowered one cannot deny he is straight up better than most of his other IDs in their own teams.

[@ericwijaya2119]

First time a gacha game has made me pull genuinely drippy units and not have to worry where they slot in the metagame

[@Onyxx0425]

0:12 rip spicebush

[@kucheryahinjuniour6586]

once uptie 5 is out, the land will become fertile once more

[@toz_lmao]

I'll always be a sinking deluge bro 5.4k gloom damage my beloved

[@Drako4177]

Butterfly is only good outside of MD. In mirror dungeon U still want to run BUSHSANG by a long shot

[@jakkees]

Butterflies gives the better versatility, and butter sang is overall a better unit by himself But spicebush still has that nuke that has both upsides and downsides

[@paln0root]

Lament Sang for making team do damage. Spicebush for making enemy explode by 12000 gloom damage

[@KhangAJ]

They're so generous that i actually feel bad about how unsuccessful their revenue compare to other gacha tbh. But it's a very thin line between sacrifcing your revenue for a better game or sacrifice your gameplay for your revenue and make a powercreep character every single update (im looking at you HSR, my poor dan heng IL and Jing liu is literally climbing down the tier list every single update)

[@GameBooAdvancePlus]

Consider the size of their studio and that they're self-published and the numbers are actually quite impressive.

[@Camazotzer]

Kim Jihoon said on that legendary roadmap stream that they had accumulated enough money from Limbus Company that Project Moon could be ran for 10 years without profit.

[@aryandabima9623]

i thought it's 3 years without profit, but the point still stands. limbus is their most profitable game ever, so it might not be the most profitable gacha game but for them it's enough to sustain them for a long time (hopefully long enough to release a new game. pls i don't want 10 years of gacha game)

[@edgufibot8669]

Power creep will happen when we jump from petty associations and lobotomy corp remnants to fixers closer to grade one, some woman who replicates the legendary fixer The Red Mist with dual wielding egos, and a motherfucker with an HE suit and a WAW weapon

[@cabbagebutterfly800]

22-23 MD is an estimate without taking into account the weekly reset, that will DRASTICALLY lower the number of needed runs, so with the BP, you can literally get every unit on release WITHOUT pulling a single time, hence why you can see people holding up to 300 pulls just for Wapurgisnacht while still getting all the new IDs

[@GutsOfRivia]

Rabbits Heathcliff is still top tier since release that already speaks volumes.

[@mao38]

N corp Sinclair

[@_enot_]

W don is also still amazing

[@NuclearRaven13]

"200 boxes" yeah with my shit luck it might as well be 400 boxes 💀

[@aheghaugheggeyahg]

I love my spaghetti code game

[@xarksins]

Ngl i thought you were going to talk about uptie. Considering most games once you get the character you can max it and that it. But in limbus they added uptie for every character to make them potentially viable.

[@lizabetta1704]

Powercreep is easily beat with buffs and/or reworks. Funnily enough, F/GO is the best example of old characters being pulled out of the mud by buffs. Also PGR reworks make old characters feel fresh(besides the fact that it's one of the easiest games to build characters in).

[@dogebydaylight4062]

Truly the goat of all gacha games

[@lahnhedberg3403]

I know during season 1 and 2 using limbus pass you could get every character/ego. This involves playing the game daily. Doing all daily/weekly quests and running mirror dungeon, perfectly doable but... can you burn you out

[@bonewheel6071]

Glory to limbus company and project moon

[@adhiyaksaoktav497]

powercreeping in limbus is really rare too since you need to build 12 different sinner with overlapping ids (ofc the primary example is pointillist yi sang against solemn lament yi sang, and w ryoshu against red mist ryoshu), like, there is multicrack faust but regret faust from ages ago is still holding up really well

[@punnyperson4663]

Honestly my favorite example of PM being good at minimizing powercreep, is the fact that my One Who Shall Grip Sinclair, keeps up or does better than newer ids (My mind immediately goes to Red Eyes Penitence Ryoshu, Solemn Lament Yi-Sang, Barber Outis)

[@inukuji9294]

Yea i love that limbus dont have that power creep xD

[@andreikovacs3476]

Azur Lane did this more than 5 years ago, where getting the new meta ships is not very complicated. It's not a complicated trick, it just needs the executive board to be convinced to pursue long-term gains rather than short-term

[@johannbarreragomez]

I like how you put spicesang and lament sang as an example of power creep but neither of those are the better yi sang id lol

[@pro_cap]

Nah, the main solution for powercreep in Limbus(and like a most uniqe and meaningful one) is NEW TIER UPTIE. It is the best practise from our lovely devs - u see, uptie is a straightforward way to upgraide id's kit, and with new lvl of it, it can totally changes how id works, fixing it's flaws or adding new mechanic for old id. When we got new 4 max lvl for uptying, it rebalanced meta a lot. It's like in HSR would be a lvl break system, which gives Clara direct taunt, for example.

[@drearydoll6305]

3:21 Fgo is a terrible example because: -Its a single player game -The friendlist give you access to strong options even if you own nothing -The hardest quests of the games are completly optionnal -If you know what you re doing you can either tank through the story mode of the game with free units or just use the grail/fou cards to level up your units beyond what they could normally do. -Oh and lets not forget the command spells who basically make challenges very trivial in most cases Really the only reason to get the new units is because you like the character OR you wanna use the lastest gimmicks that makes fights take less times or you just want to show off that you got the latest goodies. Anyone telling you the opposite clearly never played the game at full capacity. Again, single player game, with a friend system who s only here so you could use your friends' units. Powercreep hardly matter in fgo anymore because it just show that you can take X unit and use them with the same boring Y units as supports and gorilla your way through. Even the low rarety units can do the same except they may take a bit more times since they don't one shot. Remember when there was no break bar and most of the high rarety units would just one shot everything because all you needed was big numbers instead of how its now taking multiple turns since except for one specific unit(bazet), you can't instantly delete an enemy that has 2 break bars?

[@SuuBrainrot]

Limbus isn't immune to powercreep though, and while it's rare, we still see stuff like the recent Ring Yi Sang sneak through the gimmick of the Ring IDs aren't really gimmicks to play around and just a bonus, but even then it has such absurd numbers that makes it the best ID in the game Otherwise though, it's been pretty good. We have stuff like Solemn Lament Yi Sang being a more consistent Sinking applier and Clasher than Spicebush Yi Sang, but Spicebush is still going to have its own niche (especially in fights against enemies with SP) so even within the same sinking archetype they fill different niches.

[@justsomeflowers5143]

You sound like that one dude that made fidget spinners out of liquid gallium

[@keinkanal7382]

Something you also didn't mention is that if you play constantly the amount of pulls you get from the game inbetween 2 Walpurgisnight banners often is enough to pull for the characters on the banner (provided you always buy the regular characters with shards)

[@doflamingo3990]

This reminds of Arknights cause two of the most broken characters will soon be out and just powercrept two classes cause of their skills.

[@Calytrah]

Thank you for your content, Mr. MilkshakeMann

[@lincolo-san2356]

The limbussy made you unwise...

[@ComputerGamingg]

Limbus has NO powercreep, just ask zwei Sinclair!

[@VinhKhanhNgo-rr5vx]

Base unit are still cool for support. Like, their condition are pretty loose unlike newer one.

[@simplythecat4068]

Butterfly sang may have better coin rolls, but sinking deluge is just too strong as long as you can set it up tbh. Literally oneshots bosses with a couple thousand HP from almost full HP (say for the damage done to them while setting up). There is some powercreep in limbus, and the nature of Limbus's gacha doesn't really justify it or make it any different from other gachas, its just that it happens for a different reason. New ID/EGO comes out, you wanna shard it, you wanna level it, uptie 4 is mandatory since PM started designing IDs with ut 4 in mind since like canto 5 or even earlier, often locking all the most important features and parts of the kit behind it, so chop-chop, 400 crates and 300 thread, please. PM constantly experiments with mechanics and presentation, which leads to every new ID getting a more complex and fun to use kit than launch ones, they're not always good (especially when it comes to egos), but they *are* still better than some launch and earlier season IDs and egos at least purely by a virtue of having better clashing OR a more cohesive kit with things that old IDs should've got with ut 4 but didn't because PM had no idea what they were doing. For example such simple things as coin power boost conditionals on skills or tanks being actually able to clash and interrupt enemy attacks regardless or speed (looking at the new Zwei Ish compared to older tank IDs, especially zweis) Whats funny though is that exactly because PM had no idea what they were doing, we got stuff like Faust Fluid Sac or Gripped Sinclair that never fell off and were never bested in what they do.

[@themadsuika3909]

Being Honest, Limbus does have a small powercreep. Specially in effects and such but it's not like super necesary. Cleared first five Cantos with base IDs, NCorp for Canto six and trying out W Corp for Canto seven. And well i think i won't change them for anything

[@FromthePlanetofice]

0:05 not even 5 seconds into the video and i see the word “wuthering”

[@RealEMojomaker]

Final Fantasy Dissidia Opera Omnia (yes that's a real name) was also pretty cool in terms of powercreep, they'd basically give older characters mini-reworks to be able to keep up with newer characters if they featured in whatever event the new character came out in, no gacha or grinding required (unless that rework required a weapon tier that character previously didn't have but that was equivalent to opening a 00 ID on targeted extraction) They we're slowly and steadily making most characters pretty comparable, heck even some non-updated characters still had use cases. Until they decided to do a massive 180 and introduce a new mechanic and tier of weapon that made every character practically useless unless they were reworked with said mechanic in mind and it was a MASSIVE resource sink unless you bought the highest tier of monthly pass that coincidentally released with the update...

[@smiles4045]

While some of the newer characters are indeed really good in Limbus, we still have top tier units from the start or a little after. Look at W Don and Ryoshu, R Corp Heathcliff, and N Corp Sinclair. Hell, even characters like Harpoonercliff, Blade Meursault, and Molar Ishmael, who are also amazing, and are some of the middle releases. Yeah, Regret Faust and Red Eyes and Penitence Ryoshu are consideref probably the best Identities to use on them, and Regret Meursault being basically a requirement to play any other Meursault ID, they're not needed (except Regret Meursault, get the ego, it's genuinely amazing to have).

[@jamgUNoh]

Other gacha games have you by the balls if you ever want to use money, its like on the hundreds for a character. Nexon is ass in this, in BA its like $300 for a spark, in limbus you just use 10 dollars and you expect pretty much to dispense every ego and id for the season, which are not even required to do hard content. In BA? Good look trying to even do insane or torment, lol lmao.

[@Yuri_Burger]

So true bestie

[@Exercitu]

I LOVE THE CITY I LIVE IN

[@Bylov6812]

Arknights mentioned! Hivemind, assemble! 🎶 *BROKEN SUN, SHINE A LIGHT ON EVERYONE* *BROKEN SUN, YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE* 🎶

[@emperorsubs1814]

Spice bush is only slightly worse overall than funeral. Most things in limbus that do similar things still offer different benefits. Spice bush OAE damage buff and Sinking Deluge out damages funeral. Inconsistently of course, but still.

[@therandombag2121]

Limbus is a really generous gacha, but the points you made don’t really talk about the issue of powercreep. Powercreep relates to the status of the units that come before another big unit in their archetype, but your justification was that limbus lets you shard sinners, which isn’t the point. Regardless of getting the new unit by pulling or sharding, powercreep will exist when x old unit gets replaced. I will say, Limbus has a bit more lenient powercreep, as most of the old options take a while to fade since they still have their benefits, but it definitely still exists and I don’t believe its slow progression has been anything groundbreaking, just very generous and well thought out.

[@dandyshark6094]

i think as long the older character still can finish endgame mode its still ok, but idk tho, i play arknight and limbus there old char still strong especially arknight XD

[@za_arto]

The best mistakes I've ever made while playing the game were: -Starting LBC with a new account from scratch because I didn't understand combat mechanics. -Making said account 2 days before Solemn Lament Walpurgisnacht ended. - 10x rolling S.L Yi Sang first try (Remember, I had yet to gain any idea what anything was in this game) - Used the event's MASSIVE xp tickets ONLY on that Yi Sang (instant lvl 38, he's still at that level, lol) - may or may not have first upgraded Zwei South Sinclai and Rosespanner Mersault (and thought they were 'good') Yi sang carried me everywhere, never saw him lose a clash, never saw him under 45 sp either.

[@arbiterzena]

Glory to Limbus company

[@glenmoody-elias1040]

There's so many aspects of Limbus Company that makes me feel good about how they're combating Power Creep. The fact that there's 12 Characters, and you get Identities is huge. You can't just use 12 Heathcliffs to rampage over a mission. There's mutual exclusivity. Sure, eventually we will have enough gimmicks and everyone will have an identity that will contribute something. But you can't use 10 "+Damage on Weakness exploited" characters, since those themes would be under Faust and Outis, and I don't think Heathcliff is going to have an identity that makes that effect make sense. Limbus is a whole different league of taking care of itself, and giving a hefty amount of respect for its players.

[@SniXBESTAWP]

In limbus i pull only on wallurgis banner or baners with 2 00 , get them in 10 pull and stop, everything else i shard, saved up 37k lunacy so far, i ve bought 7$ mounthly lunacy pack about 6 times, and 33$ for season 2, 3 and 4 BP (current bp bought with paid lunacy from mountly pack), 75$ total for 1.5 year of playing. I am only missing some egos from first bp, and some release ids which i don't care about (sorry 7 outis). So if you dedicate your time and buy battle pass twice a year, you can get anything new that comes out. Very generous for a gacha don't you think?

[@bruhmomentono]

I actually play limbus just because of how f2p it is, otherwise if it was like genshin i wouldnt have been that much invested in it, or even at all. (BTW FUCK YEAH MILKSHAKEMAN USED HIS VOICE AGAIN INSTEAD OF AN AI)

[@sheenovh1182]

after playing limbus and being able to get every character with only the BP which is once every half year, im unable to play other gachas games. Sure star rail is cool and i love turn based games, sure i am a massive weeb and neurons activate when cool anime waifu appears, but the fact that i have to grind for 3-4 months for just 1 character and the BPs barely giving you like a 10 pull straight up kills me lol.

[@diddlykong4358]

Three. Pierre/Jack Announcers. In. A. Row. I had to hit pity to finally get Hod 😭

[@diddlykong4358]

Walpurgisnacht is where my lunacy goes to die...

[@judgement.guy1]

Well you are lucky, I ROLLED 3 HOD ANNOUNCERS!!!!!! I. DONT. WANT. HOD.

[@rotonek2887]

isnt announcers take the rates of 00 ids?

[@nunyabusiness3652]

I once saw a clip where this Vtuber had two green chains (she been getting Pierre/Jack announcers), she was surprise and was like, "watch it be two Pierre/Jack xD". It ended up being two Pierre/Jack 🤣

[@mao38]

​@@rotonek2887no.

[@quackerinos]

oh no! its the smiling french man

[@staria65]

Powercreep? Nah man. Quick Suppression.

[@MalevolentCherry]

In limbus I still use Nfaust even till this day, then there is the fact Rcliff and Nclair are still super viable till this day even when stuff like Wild hunt and Ringsang exists

[@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs]

Not only that the support passive of nfaust is still REALLY good.

[@ZAYKONN]

Sharding characters is not actually something innovative, if you played gacha games for some time now you know that "Sharding" is a concept from about 10 YEARS AGO. It basically executes exactly how Limbus does it, you can use shards to get a character, or in this case an Identity, and then in the future use more shards to further upgrade your characters. It's just that nowadays the big greedy corpos want you to think that you gotta grind irL to pay for the grind you were initially meant to do in-game. Absolutely Horrific.

[@rotonek2887]

but are those examples of yours as easy as limbus sharding? was there even something to that level? i have been wasting my time with gachas for a long time, and neven seen something that high of a quality that is that f2p friendly

[@Error-hx9ze]

Lowkey fgos fault for this

[@mao38]

​@@rotonek2887fgo's is probably one of the WORST examples

[@averyraresnom2451]

How to fix power creep = make a system that allows you to get any character you want by using a different form of currency that is still decently hard and time costing to obtain.

[@EvantusLizardo]

the explanation in short: library of ruina vertical dif.

[@candyy12345]

glory to limbussy!

[@catbrosbrawl3496]

Something interesting to keep in mind is that Limbus company also kinda has anti-power creep, at least when you take a look at the launch ids. While most new ids will always consistently have more text than a launch id, launch id's had some wacky shit. Like, lobotomy corp remnant faust with her 22-26 rolling skill 3 on a two star, something that has not come back. or the fact that w corp don and rabbit heathcliff are still the only ids with 5 coin skills with the slight exception of pequod yisang's skill 2, and that one's highly conditional. granted, this early wackiness also often went in the other direction and made really terrible ids, but it's interesting to look at the niche's that just have not come back since launch

[@eeroke12]

Rabbit Heathcliff and Remnant Faust are outliers. In most cases you'll have something like Liu Gregor smileyface.

[@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs]

Ting tang hong lu with his absolutely demolishing skill 2 and the clash of his skill 3 Truly the gamba char.

[@im50yearsold]

Meanwhile at lament yisang

[@ITAndroMedian]

No one show this video to Axeiiyl, you hear? NO ONE!

[@panhad9152]

My guy forgot fate grand order

[@AmoreyYaoiSecks]

i cant believe butterfly yi sang powercrept acheron

[@БруноБуччелати-н6б]

Limbus just has it's cult following, so powercreep isn't needed.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

WRONG TITLES This isnt anout Powercreep Wegot uptie 4 BECAUSE OF POWER CREEP This is about FOMO Limbus dosnt do FOMO

[@asdfcat123]

Is it still called powercreep if the stronger unit is more easily obtainable than your rarer one

[@mao38]

Powercreep is always bound to happen it's all up to how tedious the process is to catch up

[@asdfcat123]

@@mao38 what if I'm talking about courier cat (from battle cats)

[@mao38]

@@asdfcat123 I have no idea what that is but we do have to account for how huge of the gap between the new content and old content is regarding said powercreep

[@SyperDT]

Uptie 5, when that comes online the powercreep will be reset to an extent. Seriously, Limbus Company built there game to be able to reset their powercreep to an extent, it's so amazing.

[@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs]

Fun fact some old units are STILL better than new ones. Due to "bad" design at launch. Quick suppresion an absolute nuts envy nuke Dos rip space another absolutely bonkers envy nuke. Tintang hong lu having numbers so high and so uncondicional that makes me feel bad for the oponent. While new units are "better" against a 25 roll without ego none compare to this units. Hong lu's mutilate is a 5 or 30 dons rip space can be a 31 with a small conditional. And i dont remember how hoght can go a quick suppression

[@dan_da5213]

I feel so little fomo from limbus and that is why i play and pay it till this day

[@LiIium]

There isn't so much as a powercreep as there is of the game simply advancing. That isn't what powercreep is. Nothing obliterates the flow of the game because its 'too powerful'. There is no 'meta'. Every single encounter usually requires a different approach. The only focus that's apparent is coin rolls. You cannot nuke outside of a highly specific MD setup anyway or anywhere near that.

[@Solo20I0]

Can someone tell me how this game make money? I mean many bought the battle pass, but that's like twice a year, like, how do they even make nearly enough money???

[@Kot1kk]

I dont really think that limbus company has powercreep at all. Because N corp Sinclair WAS op as hell considering his 2nd and 3rd skills and he is op NOW because he is still very easy to use, "3rd skill wil solve all of my problems", blunt weak enemies instakill unit😭😭🙏

[@da0099]

until now....

[@Error-hx9ze]

Newer unit still fuck over old stage like ricardo a huge fucking lot and hard stage lkke ricardo is now not even a semi problem.Its still really hard to handle powercreep and the only gacha ive seen it done well is some stage in the battle cats