The fighting method of most soldiers: one-handed spear and shield

[@barghestandfae9570]

It's not the guy in front of you who usually get you- Me suddenly realises: that's probably why Pawns take diagonally!

[@NoNameAtAll2]

O_O

[@ArturoLopez-ly2pn]

Reading this made me realize that I am a degenerate Thank you

[@yomomz3921]

Nice!

[@anonymous2513456]

Holy shit, your right

[@shaihulud4515]

That's actually very clever! I think you're up to something - I would really like to hear some historical game experts, as to what they have to say. Thumbs up!

[@TheIfifi]

"I just got hurt doing a knife disarming lesson" There is a lesson to be learned here.

[@Hiraghm]

what about a pointed stick? or... how do you disarm someone coming at you with a banana?

[@nates9778]

@@Hiraghm Gun disarming? Particularly pistols, rifles, light machine guns, rocket launchers?

[@maxmuller8633]

@Anirban Chakrabarti You have armour those thing won't hurt you anyways, Japanese steel at that time suck.

[@Yourantsally]

Yeah... How to disarm knives?

[@michellevirinam2561]

Yourantsally No, how to cut off another guys arm with a knife

[@itchykami]

First cut in 9 years, and he apologizes. What a gentleman!

[@BigPuddin]

What an absolute lad.

[@jamesbrown4092]

Just because you're trying to kill someone doesn't excuse you from using proper manners.

[@hyperion3145]

@@jamesbrown4092 "End them rightly"

[@laplacesdemon45]

I would have expected him to close the channel

[@Hopeofmen]

@@jamesbrown4092 Exactly. This is warfare. We're not barbarians after all.

[@captainjules6033]

It is 3 in the morning and for reasons I can’t really explain, I am completely enthralled by a KZbin channel that explains how all my favorite movies are wrong about everything. Incredible.

[@Cuyut]

Can we all appreciate the fact that lindybeige goes to such lengths to ensure that his viewers can hear him clearly that he starts to yell when a loud motorcycle passes? “I’M REALLY USEFUL!” The amount of dedication this man has for his videos is tremendous. Much respect.

[@gheshalrejotar6677]

He reminds of my mate that raises his voice whenever he's talked over 😂

[@wyndoellabridge6208]

Lindybeige prepping us for postpandemic warfare

[@CssHDmonster]

or got inspired by butterlord

[@riissanen93]

Lindy has started to train and recruit his army for coming wars fought on the soil of Britain that will forge that island a new.

[@michelguevara151]

Thane Lindybeige to you, churl!

[@andrewgodly5739]

His tactics aren't any good against firearms though

[@IanSumallo]

Lindybeige is teaching us wrong things though. In formation fighting, overhand grip is superior. Just watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4u5pGxthrB7Y5o, skip to 2:09

[@aaronseet2738]

I imagine during ancient times spear/shield infantry will face off each other stabbing and blocking until the bell rings and everybody retreats for lunch.

[@Author_Paluthor]

That's probably pretty accurate. Just replace bell rings with both sides being exhausted

[@JesusFriedChrist]

They mostly used horns that they would blow to communicate different signals.

[@Elmarby]

Surprisingly close to the truth. I mean, just look at the accounts of battles where fighting took hours before one side got beaten and mauled. Often while it is mentioned the fighting was hard and equal until the decisive moment happened. And yet the winning side gets off lightly after hours of fighting? How can that be if they went at it for hours Braveheart style? Because they weren't going at it Braveheart style!

[@ArturoLopez-ly2pn]

This reminds me of how in the first world war armies would eat at the same time

[@scipioafricanus6417]

Just watch the roman invasion of Britain from the movie Asterix and the Brittons.

[@PTNLemay]

Every Lindibeige video feels like "Eh do I want to watch this? I'll try for 2 minutes." Then 30 minutes pass and you think "Wait! I want to know more about this obscure historical concept!"

[@inspectorjavert8443]

30 minutes? Those are rookie numbers man :)

[@deathdragon2283]

I like how much this demonstrates just how important unity among the group is. A single person taking a step back could cause the formation to shatter as the man next to him get killed, and a hole opens in the line

[@sasstemir]

My man apologizing for one video cut when most youtube videos are made from million cuts... You're humble legend, sir

[@outtour2525]

Most people : " I'm learning a new language in lockdown" Me : learning to wield a one handed spear with a broom in my kitchen

[@alexprach]

Remember dust bin lids can be used as a shield.

[@MrBigCookieCrumble]

Considering how some people have acted over toilet paper i'd say that skill might come in handy sooner than you'd think! xD

[@benjaminprince6424]

@@alexprach taking me back to school days, bin lids and umbrellas 😂

[@drops2cents260]

@OutTor So you already prepare yourself for the impending post-apocalypse. Very prudent thinking on your side, Good Sir.

[@alexeysaranchev6118]

Joke's on them, you won't understand their pleas for mercy in their fancy foreign language.

[@mauiperson2676]

When they start dueling at 9:25 it reminded me of bannerlord when you are sometimes given a shield and spear to duel someone in a tournament.

[@mushroom_gal490]

Maui Person that was my thought EXACTLY! I always let out such a heavy sigh, it’s sooooo sloowww

[@anickloquendo]

Yeah, Sturgians love their Spear and shield combo

[@Ghi102]

Even with my very high polearm skill and very low one handed skill, I'd rather have a sword if I'm not mounted. Heck, I'd rather have a sword and no shield instead of a spear and shield.

[@captainnyet9855]

that's true; now if only my infantry ever used their damn spears in formation as well.

[@halo12390]

in the mount and blade, i would always ditch the shield so i can two hand my javelin. it's much more useful in a duel situation. (throwing it was extremely difficult with all the shields around. i could just be bad though...)

[@koenvk5045]

"hey, there is a small strip of dirt beween a busy road and a railroad. That would be perfect for our video" Lindybeige, the day after knife disarming lessons.

[@tellen33]

"It's almost never the guy directly in front that gets him but one of his team mates to the side" (paraphrasing) this is why in chess pawns cant attack in front but only diagonally, they are representing conscripts with shield and spear.

[@cheekybum1513]

Do you actually have a source on that claim?

[@dreamdiction]

@@cheekybum1513 I suppose you also don't know why the Queen is the most powerful piece on the board?

[@paulcastle2019]

What about capturing en passant?

[@climbscience4813]

@@paulcastle2019 That basically is also a diagonal attack. The attacking pawn moves diagonally. If you want to use the analogon with the conscript then it was an opponent rushing forward, getting stabbed in the process.

[@kodakgreen6047]

So is that an assumption or a fact?

[@kcrash7150]

"Dueling with spears is rubbish!" oh boy do i know from playing banner lord tournaments 1v1 spears

[@chrispnano]

Duelling with 1h spear and shield is how I killed a tooth IRL :(

[@DrFilch]

just put your shield on your back and gain the range and speed advantage over the foe ^^ I see shield and spear as basically a free win both in warband and bannerlord Also, don't underestimate swinging the spear, as dumb as that may sound

[@sejfzlrrhman]

I loathe the tournaments in Khuzait territories for this sole reason.

[@GeGo6000]

haha i thought the same...Sturgian arena sucks :D

[@joaosimao6325]

Warband was even worse. It took so many mods to make it a little better

[@farfanewgan3196]

I have a student (I teach college) that does a lot of reenactment, and predominantly uses 1h spear and shield. They have to argue how effective the spear is against everyone else's point of view the sword is the best thing ever. One day I brought a lot of my boffer gear, and let them do a demo. I had 2h swords, 1h swords, 1h spears, and a variety of others... The student always carries their shield with them in their vehicle, and mopped the floor with the other 20 students or so. Since that day, students respect the spear and shield! I need to send them this video!

[@jodinha4225]

Farfanewgan what class do you teach?

[@andersbenke3596]

Respect. Putting your students in combat to prove a point is solid teaching.

[@farfanewgan3196]

@@jodinha4225 Nothing that pertains to combat, but I teach welding. We were just having a mess around day.

[@IanSumallo]

Lindybeige is teaching us wrong things though. In formation fighting, overhand grip is superior. Just watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4u5pGxthrB7Y5o, skip to 2:09

[@MurdocK-BR]

@@IanSumallo The guy in your video is talking about a phalanx with overlapping shields, while Lindy is talking about a spearwall. I can see both being used depending on culture, age and other factors.

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

This is why the Gauls decided that if both armies felt like it they’d just send their best guys out to duel it out with swords and shields, while both sides watched and then just go home afterwards accepting whatever payment they had to make to the other side when both sides where Gaulish

[@Ulfcytel]

Also, a characteristic of tribal warfare is you can't afford to lose lives. These are farmers, workers - essential members of the community in their day job. If they get killed in battle, it endangers the whole society. So, as you say, the few professional warriors, the champions, duel it out, or the combat is limited to threats and intimidation until one side has had enough and goes home.

[@fish4225]

@@Ulfcytel That's very characteristic of Zulu warfare pre Shaka Zulu, to give one example.

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

Ulfcytel very true, though most Gauls still knew how to fight, as can be seen from the fact they were constantly raiding the Etruscans, Romans, and Greeks, and were professional mercenaries in Egypt and the Carthaginian Army. Also from the Gaulish wars themselves, which were only won by Rome do to Caesar brilliance in battle tactics, only slightly more genius and a bit more ambitious then his opponent Vercingetorix.

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

"Let's settle this the old way.... your best man against my best..." "......and if my man wins....?" "We leave Gaul for good." " ........ :/ ........ ASTERIIIIIIX!!!" _crowd goes wild_

[@fish4225]

@@bcn1gh7h4wk Wouldn't you call Obelix then?

[@n0denz]

10:01 Lloyd single-handedly wins the Hundred Years War: Orléans, 1429 Colorized

[@CanadianWolverine]

Looking at this, you start to realize why shield walls became such an effective formation and later why a shield wall formation would collapse their center on purpose and if the enemy pursued, the enemy would find themselves flanked.

[@justinfernandez1156]

10:45 Actually a tactical win, he prevented and thus won the NEXT generation of their fight, rendering his son's future opponent nonexistent!

[@eazy8579]

Grand strategy win

[@Angrypolack]

During this house arrest it would be great to read “In Search of Hannibal”.

[@diagorasofmelos4345]

"Expected date of completion: december 2017." Whew.

[@peterp-a-n4743]

The epitome of passive aggression

[@hazzardalsohazzard2624]

Is he under the table?

[@Lowekinder]

I saw their time table and my experience in knowing how long it takes these sorts of projects I knew it was off by a couple years. Didn't expect quite this long, but I'm not shocked.

[@jabiliuson1270]

Me too, brother, me too

[@anchorbait6662]

What are those weird loud horseless chariots that keep passing in the background??

[@michelguevara151]

some vile sorcery , i'll be bound!

[@Hiraghm]

They're weird loud horseless chariots.

[@fionafiona1146]

Tourist traps.

[@DoctahDizzle]

Carriages without horses or oxen...powered by alchemical means...some dare call them "cars."

[@quintinhandley3220]

Zeus honours us with his presence!!!

[@Tom_Quixote]

I imagine Lindy's ancestors fought in every war in history, and they were all exactly like him. "Alright lads! Fight vigorously!"

[@AsbestosMuffins]

"Alright you horrible invaders, come at me one at a time!"

[@Anglisc1682]

Lmao he's getting ww1/ww2 ancestral memory

[@timothyhufker3565]

The “you’re no longer fertile” was easily the prime of this video

[@waylonk2453]

Hoho! Agreed! 10:46

[@KyussSpeed-sg5je]

I was under the impression that a two-handed spear was held with the off-hand in front, to maximise your thrusting capability from the back, with your dominant hand.

[@lindybeige]

It can be held both ways, and using quarterstaff techniques you can swap mid-fight.

[@KyussSpeed-sg5je]

@@lindybeige That explains it. Thankyou for your reply! Edit: I've just now realised the advantage of maneuverability with you dominant hand at the front.

[@martynkalendar]

@@lindybeige why are you so against that line of reasoning in regards to using a spear with both over and under-arm techniques?

[@steven_003]

@@saccorhytus2728 Same, even on hockey sticks the dominant hand in the back feels more natural to me. Would be interesting to see a comparison, wonder how much of a difference it really makes.

[@michelguevara151]

@@lindybeige , "highly trained truffle mommoths" , eh? real professional shamans use trained wooly rhinoceros, by Jove!

[@ArchieKeen1]

“He is not fertile anymore” - First known German to crack a joke in history

[@DoTheRoar-cw6ey]

@@jupprheinland4805 You really don't have any humor.

[@flaviusstilicho1239]

@@jupprheinland4805 Don't forget French cowardice

[@katxiii3660]

@@DoTheRoar-cw6ey Must be a German

[@bigredwolf6]

Jupp Rheinland Why are French rifles don’t cheap? They were only dropped once. Because they died fighting.

[@michelguevara151]

@@jupprheinland4805 but we *do* eat strange food :-D

[@narcolepticaxolotl4970]

"For those of you who love spending money, Macintosh" That was a pretty good jab. (spear pun)

[@thesoupin8or673]

You make a great point!

[@CursedCandle]

This video showcases the teamwork needed during a fight back then. You had to make opening for others to seize. I wonder how much of a tendancy they had to think like gamers in fighting videogames nowadays ( " my teammates suck, look at how many openings i've made and they did nothing" ) and how much of an impact that had on morale.

[@fykskyle5526]

Hard stuck bronze noobs 😒

[@Nekerfree]

Real Soldiers: use spear and shield LARPers: that`s illegal

[@fangk.7367]

Wait you can’t use spear+shield in a LARP?

[@Nekerfree]

@@fangk.7367 i remember lindy complaining about it long ago

[@AristonSparta]

I did, and we all Troy fought

[@NoZignature]

@@fangk.7367 Most larps view spears as pikes/halebards and such to be 2h weapons since they are long. Stupid i know, i think some common rule is if it goes over your naval its 2h so i think thats where it comes from.

[@fangk.7367]

@@NoZignature I see. Kind of stupid but I guess it's for the sake of balance.

[@MegaJman143]

Ever since his last thing about spears all I ever use in dnd or RPG’s is the spear and shield whenever possible, and even in game it’s honestly done me better than all the times I used swords

[@stefanjasovic2311]

And then Outward (computer RPG) only lets you use spears in two hands

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

I’m so proud of you as a DM! I have had exactly the same idea, although what I’ve tended towards is actually using multiple weapons during combat, starting with pole arm and then either throwing it or dropping it and drawing swords.

[@BikingVikingHH]

Stop playing video games you are too old

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

As pointed out here in small more one on one fights spears are frequently inferior. So for D&D groups probably not actually practical unless you are all playing a spear/shield user role (if you did that as a DM I'd give you all some nice combat bonus for the shield wall and reach gains - perhaps trigger opportunity attacks for any attack on a member of your wall and a bonus to AC from the front (ruleset and other considerations)). But as most D&D type groups tend to be roving bards, wizards and monks with the one humanoid who carts armor and heavy weapons around though all the adventures failing all stealth roles just in case. I might just have to suggest a more Jason and the Argonauts style campaign next to encourage more warrior style classes and give the players some more thought out versions of these rules before hand.. p.s. Spears probably can match swords etc in more duel like fights as long as you have the quaterstaff/polearm combination of training and forgo a shield. The reach and leverage of a long quarterstaff like spear as a bludgeoning object is downright dangerous used correctly and the pointy end useful as well - More threat vectors. But against shield and short one handed sword/axe probably still in for very bad day.

[@petlahk4119]

Has your DM been letting you play with reach spears?

[@Snakke40]

Oh I assure you Lindy I'm very experienced in one-handing my spear already.

[@Annathroy]

Just be sure to use protection with your other hand too

[@gunnerr8476]

I used it as a pommel.

[@michelguevara151]

was that a gauntlet I heard smacking cheek?

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

Stop it or you'll go blind. Apparently.

[@KristianKumpula]

Lads poking each other with long things seems right up my alley.

[@Shift8YawnsShift8]

no homo

[@aloadofbollocks988]

“Up my alley” lol

[@drbungholebob993]

All the way up?

[@xyAKMxy]

Only at RAM RANCH

[@IanSumallo]

Lindybeige is teaching us wrong things though. In formation fighting, overhand grip is superior. Just watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4u5pGxthrB7Y5o, skip to 2:09

[@sebastiannicolaikaupe5175]

I had been wondering when this would finally come out. As a member of Tremonia Fechten, let me say that we (or atleast everyone I've talked to) had a tremendous amount of fun over the course of your visit. Not only in the informative spear-pointy part, but also the late evening talks around the fire. Cheers, mate!

[@LordSolfan]

Lindybeige's sponsored messages are the only ones I'm not guaranteed to skip, since he somehow manages to present them with enough humour to make them worth watching! That Router bit was pretty good ;)

[@TheJupiteL]

Thank you for keeping contents out in this quarantine time, I don't mind having a video from 1997.

[@whistlingbadger]

LINDYMAROON! Doesn't have the same ring to it.

[@fionafiona1146]

The shirt beneath his jumper is still of white.

[@JagerLange]

He was undercover in the enemy camp.

[@whistlingbadger]

@@JagerLange ha ha ha ha

[@LautrecOfCarim]

A spear video without an ever longer option? Unacceptable. Heh.

[@alexrule4909]

I just tried out the great courses plus, and I've gotta say, your content is far and away better and more engaging then theirs.

[@TMMReznor]

I just found your vids and really enjoying them. You remind me so much of the archaeology lecturer I had back in my student days (which was long ago now) although you're a fair bit younger! I remember we fondly referred to him as 'Professor Ron' and he was known most memorably by his students for smelling distinctly of rum when lectures took place after lunchtime and struggling to suppress giggles when he had to refer to "fossilised... poo".

[@bigredwolf6]

Why have a spear as opposed to a sword? Because I’m poor.

[@IanSumallo]

If you're poor, you buy a shield and a spear. If you're rich, you buy a shield, a spear, and a sword. Swords are mainly a sidearm throughout history.

[@bigredwolf6]

Ian Sumallo If you’re really rich you send the poor people to fight for you

[@IanSumallo]

@@bigredwolf6 Men-at-arms and knights would like to disagree

[@faramund9865]

Ian Sumallo ‘mainly’ is not in your dictionary I see

[@CaptRazer]

I could only afford a kitchen knife, a stick and some rope.

[@95DarkFire]

"Und jetzt bin ich tot." lol. Please do more German videos, Lindy!

[@xyldkefyi]

Ja ich fühle mich wie ein Lieblingsziel 😂

[@steven_003]

Ich musste schmunzeln 😂

[@dillangren7561]

Oui oui

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

If it weren't for the invention of spears, man today would not be where it is. One of the first tools made for hunting was the spear.

[@mackmasters325]

You finally made a not shitty comment. Thanks.

[@Mitaka.Kotsuka]

it allowed the hunters to be away from the range of dangerous animals, and kill in group animals that excceded them in weigth without puting themselves in absolute total danger

[@BlackChad792]

@@mackmasters325 Sadly KZbin is full of shitty comments... most of the time its the same unorginal jokes being repeated hundreds of times - maybe slightly differently phrased

[@daveturner6006]

@@Mitaka.Kotsuka An animal, being not as bright as a human (mostly!) will attack the thing that's hurting it, like a spear, not the person behind the spear.

[@chippysteve4524]

If the dinosaurs hadn't been wiped out (presumably not by spears) humanity as we know it would not exist either so there would be noone to write or read silly comments on KZbin!

[@Luddite1]

A thought occurs ….the way the last fight went ,two handed v shields I think shows how the romans beat the celts , they weren’t used to fighting as an organised group so didn’t necessarily support each other as they were more used to individual combat …..just like those guys , they didn’t stick together and the two lines fell into individual contests

[@crapphone7744]

the video was interesting and informative but the ad for the VPN was probably the best bit of video I've seen on KZbin ever. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed watching an ad. And I am putting my router back in my wood shop and have called my internet service provider for help.

[@Dynioglowy1986]

spear are good tool to teach people about social distancing xD

[@fluffykittn]

Guess I'll just need to get myself a social distancing spear.

[@eriklucidor422]

Love this upload, it's fascinating with this kind of history. Thanks Mr Beige

[@deetvleet]

And on that day lindy defeated 20 spearmen using only a sword and a shield

[@thebenevolentsun6575]

The duel actually shows why spear and shield was so common.

[@christophercampbell9246]

Any video you make is amazing. i wish more youtubers were like you lindybeige. Knowledgeable, charming and witty.

[@Anitsasgili]

First, great video! I'm working on a book set in late bronze age/early iron age, and this type of experimental archeology is the best thing possible for researching. Second, to answer your end-credits question about finding what's safe to eat (if you don't already know and were only asking rhetorically/for fun); I'm sure plenty of early people died in the quest for non-poisonous foods, but what *should* be done (and likely was, at least to some extent as humans came across new things to stick in their mouth) when you encounter an unfamiliar food source is start by touching it. If you can rub it on your skin and you don't break out in hives, then you can lick it. If that doesn't cause you to have a severe reaction, take a (small) bite, and hold it in your mouth. Still no bad effects? Then the next step is to actually swallow the small bite. From there, if it hasn't made you incredibly ill it is generally safe to eat, but start with a small portion and if you're still alive in the morning then you can have more. Note that with each step, you should wait a few hours to see if any negative reaction occurs. It's time consuming, but will let you find food that won't kill you!

[@TemenosL]

Some bits regarding the end of your video. 1.) I'm glad you admit that you cannot conclude one way or another regarding the gigging/sliding of the spear because you cannot safely test it. This *has* been tested though, by the way, but you can't use solid dowels! You must use (first of all good HEMA gear, expensive sadly) a good rubberized spearhead or some other item/material up front that will bend/dissipate the energy well. Secondly, if your thrust actually contacts the target as intended, it should be a little easier to pull it back as it won't simply fall down, but stick to the target. 2.) You do not know how to properly 'threaten low and high' with overarm. You don't actually need to move the spear low and high, low and high as you do here. You simply alter the angling. You can threaten by a feint that's cut short and doesn't reach the target, as opposed to the wide theatrics done here. 3.) Nobody of sound theory thinks Greeks and various other peoples of times past *FOUGHT* by pushing. Simply put, a push isn't a way of defeating your opponents by itself. It's a lot like suggesting someone fights by moving forward, or by claiming space. It's an aspect, but not the whole of it at all. Your accurate suggestion that swords and daggers are better off at such ranges is, well, accurate. But it is inconsiderate of various factors; the ability for a spearmen to rear back the spear at the half point and continue to threaten your face/neck when you're shield to shield with them, and their own attempts to *prevent* you from slicing their throat! You're right to say that that would be your immediate priority, but you would be remiss to not consider that the man directly in front of you won't consider defending or preventing that all the same. I'm not saying the function is completely negated, but I am saying that it might not be so easy when both men are in mortal risk! The theory is more that 'it happened' as a matter of the rear ranks crowding in to use their long spears. 4.) When you suggest 'what's to stop both ranks from stabbing each other in the head'? Helmets! They might still try, and certainly some concussive effects would be unpleasant, but most men have various forms of helmet and shield and so the mortality rate would be I think to your surprise, a bit lower, or 'slower' if you will, thank we'd think. Spears overhead like that, in deep formations, also get quite cluttered together. You can suspect numerous small injuries, but it can be a little difficult to put a lot of force into a blow if there's some tangling going on. 5.) If you wanted to 'stay behind your shield', you most certainly wouldn't move to your right. Depending on your shield, you can hold it in front of you with little issue. This speaks, if anything, to trying to get behind your comrade's shield to your right, in my perspective. There's virtually no reason to do this in loose formation as you are in this video. It makes no sense whatsoever. You're actually safer with a bit of room to maneuver shield and spear freely, or in a close overlap but behind the shield to your right.

[@LordNeckBeard]

You would go to sound like a salty armchair martial arts general.

[@TemenosL]

@@LordNeckBeard As an actual practicing martial artist, that's not an issue or concern for me. The positions described in this video have been -proven-, (not speculated) to be untenable and not reflective of reality by practitioners, and those practitioners' results perfectly fit the historical, written and archaeological record.

[@JeffAlbertson09]

Everything gets a Remake these days, even the classic "Spear usage" (2010). It may have lost some of it's charm, but the visual effects are much better. PS: I am kidding, of course. Lloyd is as charming as ever ;)

[@Rudovich1]

Your longer video's are very nice to open up on my second screen whilst working from home during quarantine. Thank you!

[@LukeVilent]

I am no weapon guy, all I've done in my life was a year of judo and a half a year of fencing... but boy is this historical reconstruction a total marvel. After all those books on military history, it was so much to learn in just a half an hour video. I've had no choice but to subscribe.

[@joshholmes9878]

You use the spear to keep your social distance

[@behr2197]

thank you lindybeige i love spear sheield

[@wogagamobindi3769]

thank you asdf asdf

[@drops2cents260]

2:17 Lindybeige proving one of "Murphy's Laws of Combat" again: "If the enemy is in range, so are you". :-)

[@Andreas-wv5px]

I just saw this Video today - but some things: 1: the Spear is long, if you have an enemy which has the possibility to come more near - you grab him more in the middle. If you are in a formation the people in the second line stab the people coming too near to you. You use the Spear, if you dont have a sword - in that kind like tribal do with their 'spearswords'. Look for this for the "IKWA" weapon like the Zulu used. You cant 'cut' like you do it with this weapon, but you can still use it in this way in 1 on 1 situation. like this. So the advantage of a sword is minimized. 2: Spears a good way to stay on distance to an enemy. If you think that regular People dont WANT to kill others but they have to, the spear is some kind of weapon which is a 'ranged melee' eapon to kill people anonymously in kind of thrusting into enemy formations and MAYBE hit someone. 3: Each Spearmen also had a sword, IF someone comes too near, they dropped their spears, throwed them before and switched to their second weapon. You also dont 'kill' someone by just touching him, even with a real sharp sword you need some kind of strengths to damage a human skin, also mostly when weared padded armor. You dont bring a guy out of combat just by cutting his arm a bit with your sword. You really, really have to hit him hard to bring him 'out of combat'. Also one more thing: Yes you guys standing in front of each other... THIS IS NOT HOW A FORMATION WORKS! Even regular peasants stayed 'close' together to use their force to break enemy lines. So they stayed more together - not like they are doing. Try to do this: 3 people in a line in 3 depths. And let these 2 groups fight against each others. Maybe adding 1 or 2 skirmishers to each side to see how it works in a small scale. Regularly, if the enemy formation goes 'loose' - the formation which is still stabile CHARGE forward and overrun the enemy 'loose' formation without loosing any man. For that you have small Squadleaders/Formation-Leaders which see what is happening and WHEN to use the formation-force into your opponent. The point is this: if the formation goes loose, you loose 'force-defense'. If you stand in the first line and an enemy formation charges you, you have a guy behind you pushing you forward. So your formation wont 'break'. But if your formation is loose, a massive 'shock' attack, even with infantry, can be devastating. Tbh: i dont like how most 'fights' are showed. Even training fights. People in the medieval ages didnt fight THIS WAY in like nearly 90% of the videos you get shown to. Even when they are conscripted or whatever, they DONT FIGHT in a LOOSE FORMATION. Because this ment you die really fast cause you fight 'for yourself'. Soldiers with a bit of experience overrun every loose formation. Put these people in a 'small group' where they are not allowed to move more far away then a half lengths of an arm and allow them to 'charge' into each other to a point. Standing in front of each other just stabbing a bit isnt medieval fighting.

[@elquetedicelaposta4992]

Greetings from Argentina please keep sharing HEMA videos and techniques

[@geotag1272]

i do not know why im learning this but i like it.

[@Userius1]

Overhand vs underhand has been discussed many times in texts and among other KZbinrs, who'll I'll try to avoid directly mentioning so it doesn't sound like a plug. -Overhand most certainly generates more force. Greater kinetic energy generated. You can perform an almost as powerful underhand strike by putting your whole body into it, but then you're just an idiot that exposed your unshielded side on a battlefield. -Overhand is generally beneficial for the front row of a formation so that they don't hit the ranks behind them, and can more readily target people around them, say 3 targets (ahead, left, and right) for the 1 that the underhand would have immediately in front. -The range of a spear in overhand can be almost as far as that of underarm while static, and potentially longer when using the repeatedly executed tons of times "sliding thrust" method that is essentially a throw that's stopped before full release. This is also the method that generates the highest force. You won't really lose control of your spear unless you lack decent enough musculature for this, in which case you belong in the levy. Congratulations. -In a 1v1 duel, varying your grip would be important, so you can't simply say that one grip is entirely superior to the other in every circumstance. However, overhand can knock an underhand spear away just as easily as the reverse, if not more easily, as the overhand grip actually allows greater precision for parries. Try it. The attack goes toward you, and all you have to do is manipulate your wrist to redirect the attack and then return to attack position. The underarm is more clumsy, not being good at defensive maneuvers without throwing the user off balance. The only time I've noticed the underhand match that is when you brace it against your side for greater control, but at that moment it loses its attacking value as well. Underhand can be braced on your side for better control, but then it basically just becomes a static pole that loses its forward attack capability. -It's much easier to defend from below our head than above it. This makes the upper regions of the body good offensive targets. Legs are as well, but it's easier to rest your shield lower to the ground than to keep it raised over your head. After all, if the spear tires you from being held up, the much heavier shield isn't going to be easier. -Underarm can be more easily grabbed, controlled, trapped along the opponents shield, trapped on the ground due to its length (overarm can't very well be trapped on the air, now can it?). Again, you do whatever you have to do in a fight and the grip adjusts accordingly, but dismissing overarm despite all of the evidence of its successful use being readily available just feels insulting. I guarantee you're just not good at using the grip yourself and have just based your view around that. Now, that sounds like basically saying "git gud scrub", but it is what it is. More could be said but I'm losing out on sleep time. FYI no hate, just clearing up some things.

[@damascus1111]

You noted the purpose of levy’s, would it be irrational to think a conscript army would use an underhand grip type due to ease of use?

[@arnoldskurk971]

overhand would wreck your shoulder over time

[@LT-gs9bj]

@@damascus1111 Yes it would be irrational, based on the complete lack of evidence to support your view, and the significant amount of evidence to support the opposite view. I've seen photographs of African tribes with spear and shield, they used it overhand and were not professional soldiers. Also, it's not easier to use at all. The issue is that people hold the overarm spear too far forward, you have to hold it back like a javelin thrower, and strike from that position, not have your hand in front of your shoulder to begin with. Obviously there's not a single proper way to do it, but if you're having trouble holding it then try it this way. And to those below who say it will ruin your shoulder or is too hard to hold: lift weights, train your forearms, and hold it like a javelin. I could do it all day. I'd bet my life on it. And if you really need a rest let it dangle point to the ground, very easy to hold and carry this way. More than anything, I'd say that your spears are overbuilt-have the shaft less than an inch in diameter at the socket , and taper it back to slightly larger at the rear, or uniform diameter with a counterweight. Let the spear socket be thin walled and the blade short, 6' long shaft, and you've got yourself a handy weapon.

[@dillangren7561]

Indeed

[@arnoldskurk971]

@@LT-gs9bj you cant relieve static stress with working out

[@JoFa876]

ScholaGladitoria did something on this, and explained it very well, and why whenever you see historical pictures of battles(formations), they hold it in an overhand grip. In a more one-on-one situation, you might switch to the underhand grip. Part of the overhand grip's advantage is that the other person doesn't know if you're going to throw it. You pose no threat of throwing it if the enemy sees you holding it in an underhand grip.

[@stevebriggs9399]

I seem to recall a Lindybeige/ScholaGladitoria collaboration video where they did spear vs shield. They put a long version and a short version out.

[@nutyyyy]

@@stevebriggs9399 They did. But he means specifically Matt explains why the overhand grip was used and why it was necessary and more effective and dispels a lot of things Lindy says here - though its not directly a response to him. TLDR - you need to hold it overarm in a formation so you don't hit the men behind you and the overarm grip allows you to strike over your opponents shields - plus it allows you to throw it immediately, which is advantageous since you can throw it and also because it offers the threat of a throw as well - which will change how your opponents behave.

[@aarontait6223]

Glad you the conjectured overarm thrust, release and catch came up towards the end of the video. In my mind, this definitely would have been a tool of the spearman, but a high risk - high reward tactic employed when opportunity arose. Also worth mentioning that with all melee combat, leaving yourself vulnerable can work as a feint (albeit, requiring coordination amongst comrades). I imagine something like a Rugby Union lineout scenario where, done successfully, a call followed by a confusing defensive and offensive shift among soldiers can overwhelm the focus of the opposing side and lead to casualties.

[@faramund9865]

Went to look at Trajans column to see how they use their spears. And ehm... Well, there are (nearly) no spears on it because they didn't carve (most of) the spears out, but inserted metal spears in there that are all gone now. So you just see soldiers holding a piece of air. But you do see their pose. And you definitely do see loads of overarm grip. But it could be them tossing it of course.

[@paolomorresi60]

It would be nice to see how combat works while fighting from the second rank! Great video as always

[@SILK_7744]

you dont unless you are in a phalnx you just wait till the front line goes back to rest or they die

[@TheAwesomeviking]

"Two handed spears won both times". That does support the dominance of the macedonian phalanx vs the greek. Just as Lindy says it's better as long as missile weapons aren't a to big threat. Really good video, hope to see more of these in the future

[@lucasriley874]

Phalanx used more of a pike than a spear, there was much more of a range advantage than here where they were all the same length.

[@jorenvanderark3567]

Wouldn't the Macedonian phalanx be ridiculously vulnerable to archers, slingers and javelins?

[@IanSumallo]

@@jorenvanderark3567 Supposedly, the middle and back rows of the phalanx held their pikes diagonally and vertically so that the dense forest of pikes would deflect some of the arrows. Also they have small parma shields slung around their neck

[@IanSumallo]

@@lucasriley874 Depends. Greek Phalanx used long Spears called dory. Macedonian phalanx is the one that used pikes called sarissa

[@jorenvanderark3567]

@@IanSumallo I cant imagine that this would be as protective as a huge round shield, but with the advantage against other phalanx that might be worth it.

[@gn2650]

Spear+shield is effective in formation, not on one to one duels, for one to one fights a both handed spear or a combination of short weapon+shield would perform better.

[@TheInfamousHoreldo]

About A hand behind the point of balance to throw, for me. I want to push from behind the center of mass. Slightly forward and you end up dragging the weight, feels like using the wrong muscles. Got better results for me with javelins anyway, when I was younger We need more vids like this Mr Beige :) I liked the other spear one too. Good stuff

[@paulbardunias5950]

With respect, you are striking in overhand incorrectly. If you allow the spear shaft to rotate in the hand, you retain a firm grip, but can strike level or over upwards at full extension. With accurately rear balanced hoplite spears, there is no reach advantage whatsoever. In fact the ability to both gig and actually throw the spear give a much longer measure. The rotational inertia you describe is eliminated by holding the spear just behind the point of balance. When struck it does not rotate freely as it did for you, and by simply drawing the hand back, your point comes back online. Overhand thrusts look like throws because they share the same physics. In my experience they are more accurate and the jabs much quicker than underhand strikes, and 3 out of 4 published tests have found overhand strikes considerably more powerful. The single advantage of underhand is holding the spear in static extension. Have you read Marozzo or Manciolino on the use of spear and shield? Overhand is the primary strike used in duels with renaissance partizan and rotella.

[@paulbardunias5950]

I am not sure I see how you are envisioning holding a spear at static extension being advantageous. You are very easy to parry aside and you telegraph your measure. As for prodding, as he notes, but then ignores his own advice, prodding a shield with a sharp point is a far different experience than prodding with dull, boffer weapons. Prodding shields aside is probably the biggest thing you have to unlearn when you move to accurately sharp weapons.

[@MiaogisTeas]

That's great. Where's your video?

[@paulbardunias5950]

@@MiaogisTeas There are a bunch of videos of me marching and fighting in hoplite panoply online, but if you are interested in how hoplites used spears, my book is a better introduction. m.barnesandnoble.com/w/hoplites-at-war-paul-m-bardunias/1136525809

[@markwackerman5593]

I think Lindybeige knows what he is doing, I doubt you do

[@paulbardunias5950]

Do you have experience with spear and shield? Some of the things shown in this video are simply incorrect if you have done HEMA spear and shield. Striking incorrectly in overhand is a common mistake for example unless you are taught the proper manner.

[@nutyyyy]

The problem is when you are in a tight formation you often need to hold the spear above you, both to prevent hitting your comrades behind you and also so you can strike your opponent over the top of their shield. Plus it allows you to throw it at a moment's notice which is useful. Plus the stick Lindy is using for a spear here is probably about three feet shorter than many spears were historically. And that may well be because you need the extra reach due to the grip.

[@Oxnate]

Wherein Lindy makes a bunch of points he made a long time ago (if you've been watching him for a long, long time) but this time outside and with helpers to help make the points. And with a few additional points to sweeten the deal.

[@MaggotDiggo1]

The thing about the overhand grip is that you're able to throw the spear at any point.

[@hornettecco7499]

I think the most amazing part of this is that he managed to make a solid four minutes of blatant advertising just as interesting and informative to watch as the previous thirteen, it takes a lot of skill to do that. Excellent video.

[@kianbehmanesh7775]

The overhand grip was used for many reasons: 1. It allows you to deploy the spear without letting your shield down, and without needing to break an interlocked shield wall, such as in a phalanx. 2. It is ergonomic, giving you more power in the thrust, and is less taxing while wielding the weapon. You can also rest the weapon against your shoulder whilst keeping it deployed. 3. It allows you to retract the spear as needed, while this would be less feasible in underhand. 4. Range is not the point. It is a cheap, simple weapon that is easily mass-produced, simple to train, and allows masses of infantry to remain shielded while delivering very powerful thrusts. 5. Overhand position centers the mass of the spear above your own center of mass, allowing you to easily maneuver, both as an individual, and more crucially, as a formation (phalanx charges and so forth).

[@lordrhys5237]

Greek hoplites used an overarm spear stance but they were not disadvantaged by range as they did not hold the spear in the middle but at the back end, this was possible because the spear was counter weighted by a butt-spike on the other end.

[@Dave-Shearer]

I haven't handled one, but you are saying the spike at the butt was much heavier than the spear head to bring the point of balance closer to the butt than the middle of the shaft?

[@lordrhys5237]

@@Dave-Shearer Yes, I believe so.

[@duchi882]

*Spear Hero:* Spear and Shield working together?! *Shield Hero:* Must be a glitch in the Matrix

[@benrex7775]

:)

[@TDrewBR]

rise of the shield hero is good af, watched vinland saga just after it and now i got nothing else to watch :(

[@jeffgoode9865]

I'll never comprehend how people fighting in war didn't either give up or freak out. The training and ability to just focus on what's necessary without constantly being paralyzed by fear of death is amazing.

[@dannygo500]

I'm pretty sure that most battles between phalanges lasted only a few minutes before one of the sides broke, after that it was just a slaughter.

[@michelguevara151]

rather good demonstration of melee spear and shield wall defense, an the contrast. jolly good show!

[@IanSumallo]

Lindybeige is wrong about overhand grip though. Overhand grip is superior when using a shield wall. Watch this vid: Overhand grip is superior to mass formation warfare. Watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4u5pGxthrB7Y5o skip to 1:23, and tell me how can you use underhand grip there

[@creanero]

I wonder how much of that comes down to having good armour and faith in your armour. I think that un- or lightly-armoured troops would really suffer in that tight a formation against under-arm grip spears who can take shots at their feet and heads with relative impunity. If, on the other hand, the enemy have helms, greaves and vambraces that they're willing to stake their lives on and are expecting to weather a few hits to the armour as they close the range gap, that might work.I do wonder what the point of all the length of the spear behind the hand is in this case, and why you would bother with it over a sword or axe or similar one-handed weapon.

[@IanSumallo]

@@creanero Imagine the Greek hoplites vs the Persian shield bearers. That's likely a good representation of heavy infantry in shield wall formation using overhand grip vs Persian light infantry who are free to use whatever grip they want. Yeah... Didn't end up too well for the persians. Also, you don't have to be so fixated on the back half of the spear. It seems a waste, but really there's no way you can use all that length in a close formation. Lindybeige keeps talking about all the air he can cover with his underhand grip, but that's actually not ideal. You don't want to wave your polearm all around with other guys closely around you. The most you want to do is do a quick jab over the opponents shield and kill someone (which overhand grip is ideal for). Also you ask what's the point of a long spear if half of it is going to be behind it? Why not use swords or axes? Just remember that half of a spear is still longer than a an entire sword/axe.

[@LouisKing995]

Ian Sumallo Phalanx is quite different to a regular spear wall though. Phalanx is more of a shoving match. Not every spear wall = a phalanx.

[@IanSumallo]

@@LouisKing995 Shoving matches? I heard this misconception before. It's not practical nor represented in history. You cannot win just by shoving. If you get close enough to shove with your shield, you're close enough to get stabbed over your shield by an overhand grip.

[@brancaleone8895]

no beige tshirt??? MADNESS

[@retonetzer8065]

It's just bad lightning, in reality he's wearing the beigest beige of beige beiges.

[@drops2cents260]

@BrancaLeone Don't you worry, that's just Lindy using camouflage to confuse his adversary.

[@demomanchaos]

Little of this is accurate.The overarm strike can achieve just as much range as the underarm one. Simply release the pinky and hold onto it with the thumb and index finger and you can get the same reach in your thrusts. The overarm can also be used to attack low but unlike underarm you can thrust at the opponent's right side which could prove decisive. If you need the full length of the spear the "throwing slide" technique demonstrated by Thegnthrand is not only an extremely powerful attack but you can achieve the same reach as underarm and isn't nearly as hard to control/recovery as you might think. The sliding thrust can also be done underarm as well. In open order overarm is not as good as underarm, but underarm is very difficult to use in a shieldwall. You need more elbow room to really be effective with underarm, while overarm can be used in tight shieldwalls (Though shorter weapons like handaxes and short swords are better for such occasions). As long as you keep your spear at a downward angle there is no risk of injuring your allies with an overarm grip. As for shield use, instead of dropping his guard he could just stick his shield out a bit forward which would intercept your line of attack towards his shins. Instead of chasing your spear he can instead just use his shield's large diameter to cover himself. With a large shield you only need to make small movements to cover anywhere not already covered by your standard guard position, so someone with a large shield that knows better than to chase as if he had a buckler is very very difficult to open up. In those "Scienfitic" duels" none of Lloyd's touches would have matter one bit. He brushed the edge against the back. That wouldn't have even scratched their clothing. Such an "Attack" is entirely worthless. Very few of his "hits" would have done anything at all. We actually have quite a bit of evidence for the overarm grip, and many of the depictions show the hand near the back of the spear implying a sliding thrust technique. While recovery of said technique on a whiff is a bit slow, as long as you something the recovery is quite speedy. Again check out Thengthrand's videos on the topic.

[@TemenosL]

I'm glad to see that you've changed your tune regarding overarm, and also continue to speak out against Lindy's perspective. I first noticed it around the 'Fight camp' videos he'd posted. He doesn't seem to understand refusing the point for enemy manipulation, (that's done in either grip really). And it was curious how the 'scientific' test literally showed that the worst grip for facing an opponent who wants to close in is indeed the worst grip for facing someone who wants to close in. He's also way, way too inundated into this polite prodding style of fighting where your blunt spear/stick has no chance to get stuck in wood, and heads aren't a viable targets due to injury risk. I highly doubt historical fighters who'd probably sharpen their spears to keep them effective prior to combat, would poke and prod to try to open up the opponent's shields, risking it getting stuck every single time. A real shield would prevent a rather 'sticky' surface for a fine point. This is exactly why one must have pause and consider where their recreational fighting styles differ from historical ones if the full body isn't a viable target. But he's dove right into confident and authoritative assertions based on what is not far from tag-fighting.

[@schwertschwinger]

Thank you!

[@saugatmanandhar6473]

How do you propose they fight then? He later opened it up to an actual fight with headmasks, and I didn't see anything change. Also, note that re-enactment is likely how ancient greeks trained anyway. It's not like they had modern medicine, so they were probably also training with blunt weapons.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

While I've not a doubt overarm does have it uses when putting force in this throwing slide there is a very good chance you loose your weapon (and it won't really work well if you don't give the stick some momentum) - either stuck in the opponent or from its own momentum exceeding your grip. The latter being a larger problem for longer fights, which wont come up as quickly for underarm as most of the power and load is braced against the arm lowering the grip strength. Lindy also makes good points about your own spears rear being a threat to your own second rank in that grip - though for me it makes a good grip for the second rank to be using - ready to 'throwing slide' or outright throw from relative safety at targets of opportunity. Which also matches many (but not all) historical illustrations I've seen for a blocks of spearmen - low leading spears (which must be underarm) and then spears at higher angles which could be either grip poking out the top.

[@soovylol]

Lindybeige please post more in this time of quarantine, I crave a 2 hour Loyd rant (much like your video on gladiators), so please please please make more videos Love from Las Vegas

[@BladeFitAcademy]

A most excellent presentation on spear work. The Roman Legion makes so much more sense now as to why they were so successful against their contemporaries.

[@Loromir17]

When they start sparring, Lindy starts to sound like a drill sergeant. "Be-cause-our-spEars and-our-shiElds keep-us-safe!"

[@erikaushamburg8279]

"Ger" means Spear in old germanic language. The Germans were the Spearmen. Interesting video material but dont get hurt if possible!

[@theskywolf1425]

technically untrue, following wikipedia: From Middle English Germanie, from Old English Germania, from Latin Germānia (“land of the Germans”), from Germānī, a people living around and east of the Rhine first attested in the 1st century BCE works of Julius Caesar and of uncertain etymology. The exonym was said by Strabo to derive from germānus ("close kin; genuine"), making it cognate with "germane" and "german", but this seems unsupported. Attempts to derive it from Germanic or Celtic roots since the 18th century[1] are all problematic,[2] although it is perhaps cognate with the Old Irish gair ("neighbor").[3]

[@erikaushamburg8279]

@@theskywolf1425 Well but then some Germanic names would not make as much sense. So the Name "Gerhard" means in my interpretation "Hard or Strong Spear" why would someone create a Name that means according to your source "Hard Neighbour" it is possible but its sounds weird. And its even worse in the term German because that would mean "neighbour man" which makes not as much sense as "spear man" I hope I was able to make my point understandable. I would never call someone a "neighbourman" but I would very much likeley call someone a swordsman or a spearman. Just because its logical combination of words. At a certain point I only believe what makes sense. And I know my language a bit.

[@erikaushamburg8279]

@Anonymously Done The verb "wehren" is not related to the noun "ger" afaik. The term "Gewehr" is a word combination from the prefix "Ge" which means just that something has happened with something else in the word (and has nothing to do with "Ger" whatsoever) and the suffix "Wehr" which means to defend. So the words "Wehren" or "Wehr" and "Speer" dont seem to have anything to do with each other. Even though they sound similiar.

[@theskywolf1425]

@@erikaushamburg8279 I am no etymologyst myself, but I'd just say that words don't always have an origin or might have more than one. Some words/names also got modified over centuries, so they might sound the same, but have a different core meaning. (not saying you're wrong)

[@OkurkaBinLadin]

@@theskywolf1425 Aye, thats the version I heard. Ie. Germani being celtic loanword to latin meaning "neighbour".

[@alessandronavone6731]

Lindy, have you ever tried to do an underhand vs overhand in formation with the overhand charging to shield push length? Because I quite suspect the overhand would win.

[@EternalQuestion]

For sure in that situation an underarm grip would be totally useless. At least with an overhand you'd have some slight chance of getting a hit in. Although personally I'd say that you're better using your sidearm at that distance. There's a reason the Romans used their gladius so much. I also don't agree with Lindybeige's technique where he holds the spear one handed right at the end. If you do that you've just made a massive lever for your opponent and you've made your own spear as slow and sluggish as you possibly can. Reach means nothing if your hits are slow and weak.

[@nutyyyy]

There's a good reason you see the overhand grip in visual sources everywhere across the ancient and medieval periods. Because its necessary. Lindy's points apply decently well to a short stick as he's holding here but it's ignoring that his stick is about 3 feet shorter than a lot of historical spears were. With that extra reach you still have an advantage over swords and shorter pole weapons. Plus you can get over your opponents shields, you avoid hitting the guys behind you and you can throw the spear immediately - which both allows you to throw the spear and means you opponents also know you can throw the spear which will make them more cautious.

[@nutyyyy]

@Boi Trash I agree the whole pushing thing is not very reasonable. But it's evident overhand grips were incredibly common and they show up in visual sources from the Ancient and Medieval periods. There's a lot of advantages to it.

[@lamatoutroux5786]

@@nutyyyy i think "the pushing thing" is actually viable if you consider the goal is not to stab but to topple the enemies, so they can't do much stabbing themselves because they're falling and being crushed by both sides. Then the less pushy side flees because else they would be physically disrupted by the more pushy formation that could then locally 3v1 all of them. Once they flee you kill the guys on the ground and the ones with their back facing you easily. Here the advantage of the spear over the sword is you don't have to expose your arm as much, and also you can aim for the second rank to cause disorder in the middle of the formation. Plus you just can't draw a sword if you're crushed between two formations. If you do this against a loose formation, you will win almost certainly because it s easy to make them fall, and against the same tactic, it's kind of a 50-50. The only downsides is if the ennemy has smaller manoeuvrable formations that can let you push in and flank you (what the romans did). I must admit though, that i don't see how the macedonian phalanx could have won over that. Sure they have range, but a hoplite just has to duck his head and he is virtually invulnerable from the front with an underhand attack. Maybe they just attempted to avoid a too quick charge and a shield clash that would end the battle within minutes so cavalry has time to flank? If someone has an attempt at recreating that type of battle i d be interested

[@irfannurhadisatria2540]

@@lamatoutroux5786 because 2 handed pikes can pierce through armor. See how renaissance pikes get fenced with (Meyer).. What you get is hoplites getting their shields pushed back to their own formation, throats and helmets get rung out by pikes, and they can't do anything back with their one hand spears which really demoralized everybody involved.

[@ossiandobson9030]

I love that all your critic of everything can be boiled down to ”that isn’t as versatile as this”, it’s such a moot point when looking at how things actually played out.

[@marcim5172]

Lindy is really a natural leader for wining a spear formation fight outnumbered without losing a man

Im mostly amazed that someone would ask him to teach HEMA

[@secutorprimus]

I would have imagined it would have been better to ask someone familiar with marozzo to teach, rather than someone working off of... personal experience?

[@jeggiejegmeister8720]

HEMA is largely reconstruction. This guy has done a ton of research, not just from texts and images, but in considering practicality and viability of 'known' techniques. At least he's not gone off the rails like warzecha

[@andrescrespo2514]

I’m sorry since when has hema encompassed North Africa, the Middle East, Asia etc? Landsknecht halberd and zweihander combat is HEMA, fighting in a shield and spear wall is literally world spanning.

[@secutorprimus]

@@andrescrespo2514 For one, your point isn't very relevant. It is not feasible to cover every single distinct cultural martial style of spear and shield, so a class must focus itself down to something of a smaller scale. However, I do agree that HEMA, as a concept, is largely problematic, both by its anachronistic conception of "Europe", as well as its drawing of artificial barriers between cultures. Tl;dr, your criticism is largely invalid, but contains a small amount of truth in it.

[@OkurkaBinLadin]

@@secutorprimus "artificial barriers between cultures" - Ugh, go away woman.

[@marcose1137]

I enjoy lindybeige's content, but I think he approaches things from a modern perspective and uses that as proof. But men who trained their whole lives with spears (and used tools like scythes and hoes) would have insanely strong wrists, so just because something doesnt work for us doesnt mean it didnt work for them. I dont even think what hes saying as it pertains to HEMA is wrong But Remember the greeks fighting in tight phalanx used the overhand otherwise they wouldnt be able to overlap shields, and yet they were able to manipulate spears without doing whatever lloyd does, so you also have to take what he says with a grain of salt

[@MrLigonater]

Just because they’d have stronger wrists than most moderns doesn’t mean it is mechanically weaker. Someone who works with scythes and hoes would have stronger arms in general, so I’d imagine it would scale up. I do agree, we need to consider the impact of interlocked shields though.

[@marcose1137]

@@MrLigonater I never said it wasn't more or less sturdy, just that lloyd uses his imagination as proof a lot of times. I enjoy his perspective, but I take what he says with a grain of salt because he does things like dismiss a technique that has been one of the most successful in history. Imo his channel is more entertainment than history, which is fine, but maybe some people cant draw that conclusion.

[@christianscottrelleve3805]

I reckon people who did train with said weapons most of their lives would quickly learn and adapt to the most feasible way of holding them to make their jobs easier.

[@mixuz91]

Most people throughout history werent well trained soldiers who trained every day for big scale battles. You have to take into accounts of the avarage people. Then his prespective probably make a lot more sense :)

[@loganmoody1816]

Perhaps that could be why the phalanx stands out as a fighting style, as opposed to other spear warfare which usually aren't referenced in any special way. Its also possible that our references for the phalanx overhanded spear method aren't as accurate as we like to think. From my knowledge, our interpretation of Greek phalanx comes mostly from visual depictions, and descriptions of battles or fighting (though the historical examples of this aren't usually describing the actual movements of a single soldier, but the style of the fighting unit.) If medieval art has taught me anything, its that artists often don't have first hand experience with what they are depicting. Look at some of the exotic animals or armor which look nothing like their real life counterparts, or are embellished to highlight the differences to the locals who would see the art. Perhaps I am unaware of a source that unambiguously states the use of the overhand method. Biomechanics have been the same since we were in the bronze age till now, so the demonstration of how impractical an overhand grip is should be able to inform us about the past as well as the present. Obviously it doesn't discredit the idea that people did use it, but I think it should cast doubt on just how much it was used and in what kind of setting. About the tightness of the phalanx I also have some doubts. If the men were packed too tightly, certainly the toppling of just a few men could domino the whole army, or at least a whole section. Yes, the men behind them could reinforce the ones in front. but its not like they combine their sturdiness 100%. People slip, force gets applied inefficiently, the angle of push can change suddenly, etc. I would think that it would be easier for 5 men to topple 5 others who are packed like sardines then it would be if they had some reasonable spacing. Again to my knowledge the only references are strategy-level texts and artistic depictions, the former doesn't cover man to man fighting, and the latter can be exaggerated for any number of reasons. Even the word "overlapping" could be their way of describing an approximation of what it was like. I don't know the Greek etymology of their word for overlapping, but its origin could lend its use to describing things very close together as to be nearly one on top of the other. If that is the case then the overhand grip wouldn't be the only option for phalanx. If you do have any better sources then the few I know, I would love to look into it.

[@kinoru580]

Keep a safe, one-handed spear and shield distance between you and others!

[@fishsmiddy1048]

Ahhhh Lindy, i love these types of videos! Thank you

[@Dominator046]

I love Lloyd, I love his content, and I like this video. Given my limited experience, I personally object to a great deal of what's said in the first ten minutes. But, I think given the parameters of what they tested, how they tested it, and the good things that this video does show. It balances out.

[@nutyyyy]

I mean its fundamentally flawed because his 'spear' is way too short and its ignoring the realities of being in a tight formation and dealing with opponents shields. Despite the fact that they both have shields.

[@ReedCBowman]

I would love to see a formation of 20 v 20 with two ranks, ideally with full armor and splinter-safe spear points to permit all tactics, and start to fully develop the second-rank tactics. The overhand long throw-thrust movement comes into its own from the second rank if you can step just into range to hit a face as a target of opportunity. You can also imagine a well-drilled troop tactic of waiting for the front rank to be fully engaged, possibly getting a momentary advantage of a few of the opposing front rank down, and then throwing all spears from second and third ranks together and immediately charging with swords through the front rank. I can imagine this as a safer Roman tactic too: front rank throws light javelins only, closes defensively with shield and spear, second ranks support with javelins, then when opportunity presents also throws pila and charges through the cover of the front rank.

[@ari_metal95]

Very interesting video, I always wondered why Sword fighters would counter spear fighters in video games

[@StarRider253]

Because otherwise, swords would be useless

[@ashina2146]

Spear and Shield is quite good, but remember that the Spear should be Light enough. Attempting to do Halberd and Shield is not only stupid looking, but Halberd is designed to be used with 2 Hands. Even though there's so many Medieval art where a Halberdier carries a shield, remember the Era, "Medieval" Where Crossbow Bolts is flying everywhere. those Halberdier might just use the Shield to cover themself from crossbow bolts while standing in line, and when the Melee starts they will ditch the shield and fight with their 2 handed Halberds.

[@lucasriley874]

You can also sling a shield over one shoulder with a strap, it's not nearly as good as having one in hand but it still covers one side while freeing up both hands to use a polearm or pike. Or as you say, use it on the approach then sling it behind to cover their back or drop it for charge/melee.

[@Author_Paluthor]

@@lucasriley874 so kind of like macedonian pikemen

[@IanSumallo]

Lindybeige has a video on halberd use theorizing that halberds were used less for chopping, and more for thrusting with the opportunity to hook or to do a draw cut after thrusting. If that's the case, then I can imagine a halberd and shield use being viable

[@deannicely535]

Legit! man, am I happy to have stumbled on this. Just a couple points I don't quite agree with but I dare not argue them. Great demos too.

[@jasonheavey1226]

Love ya Lindy, you always make my day

[@Archontasil]

So upper arm spear is basically like reversed grip on sword. Limited hand articulation (means limited ways of attacking) and limited reach

[@everett6072]

Well not really. Lindy is entitled to his opinion, and many historians share his opinion, but many historians also disagree with it. A ton of pottery depicts overhanded grips on spears. The big point of discrepancy is the role of the shield. In Lindy's idea, the shield is a purely defensive tool. The dudes just hold the shield and hope it blocks everything. Most historians believe that the aspis (hoplite shield) would've been used more aggressively in something called the "othismos". The aspis would be able to hide practically everything but the lower legs (which would be protected by bronze greaves) of the solder and they would push with their shield. If this is indeed true, we can see why underhand spears wouldn't work, because what the hell can they stab? the giant shield covers everything. Whereas overhand can do downward or slightly downward strikes into the front or second row of the phalanx.

[@Archontasil]

@@everett6072 nice point, but as this video points put at 20:00 it's just too risky and too many people will die in the first few seconds. I don't think i will take that risk

[@illyrian9976]

@@everett6072 Why would you use a spear in that situation then instead of a short sword or axe? If you got that close your spear became pretty useless and became a danger to your friends in the back of you. Closing in was most likely done with swords like the romans did or the greeks with their swords.

[@iamcleaver6854]

@Радован Кубурић The whole point is not dying in the process.

[@jonnybgoode7742]

@@everett6072 pottery is made by artists. If anything its proof that artists have a long history of getting it wrong. Ever watched veterans react to war movies? Same thing different time period