Linen Canvas on ACM Panel for Painting - Why and How

[@deaconseptember2002]

What do you think of my system...I prepare the panel by applying acrylic paint to both surfaces and the edges. When dry, I cut the canvass to size by leaving 1" overlap. I adhere the canvass to the panel by gluing with PVA only the edges because if i ever want to remove the canvass from the panel after painting i can do do and don't have to worry about the PVA bleeding through the painted canvass from the back. Next I gesso the canvass (I purchase unprimed canvass) and then after that is dry, I apply a coat of lead based oil paint by Williamsburg. I prepare my own canvasses because i found an inexpensive way to purchase nice frames but, because they come in all sorts of odd sizes, fitting standard size canvasses pre-primed on board only comes in limited sizes so purchased frames for these can run into hefty prices.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Sounds good. I have not thought of only doing the edges, but it should be ok. If you have any issues later, please let us know. It might be a better approach. Thanks

[@cherylkelly3306]

Hi Geoff Great demonstration. Thankyou

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@cheralsquyresArt]

I don’t make my own due to many reasons. Does anyone sell panels. I have started watercolor on canvas. I would really like to buy ready made. Congratulations on making these panels. Thank you!

[@artmeetsgeoff]

I think Golden Artist Colors sells panels

[@BenKrisfield]

Great demo. 🔥

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Thanks

[@KathyBrooksArt]

Very useful, thank you!

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Thanks

[@megansky2197]

Great demo! I’ve started to apply my pre primed linen canvas to ACM as well but usually use a ph neutral glue vs a PVA to bind them. I’ve had issues with some peeling away from canvas overtime and wonder if it is because of the glue or not sanding the adhering surface ? Thoughts/suggestions?

[@artmeetsgeoff]

I used ph neutral PVA glue because I read (somewhere) that it was stronger. However, more importantly, I think lightly sanding is the right thing to do. By lightly sanding (NOT through to the metal) you create an opportunity for a more mechanical bond. I would definitely be lightly sanding. Then cleaning thoroughly of course.

[@preditor888]

I saw a guy that used a Heat press which seem much easier. hope that helps

[@TheAmazingSpaghetti]

I do it in a similar way. Though I've used raw and pre-primed canvas then add lead oil primer. I'm now concerned If I get pre-primed, who knows what/how they did to prime it, I suspect some of it is not done with "archival" materials. I use Polyflax canvas or untreated polyester canvas. I cant find good info on what polyflax is made with though, it may be a polyester/cotton blend, if so, not sure if that's problematic, so now I'm just using untreated poly from various sources. In theory poly is better than linen, but maybe not, we won't know for sure for a long time. Some are concerned poly may cause delamination issues, not for any specific reason I guess, just cause its untested in the long haul. If delamination is not a problem, then the painting and fabric will probably last a lot longer than natural canvas cause it doesn't really respond to humidity or rot/break down over time. I usually wrap extra canvas around the back and tape it down, that way if it ever gets re-stretched or re-attached to another panel, there is extra fabric.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Yes, poly seems to have a few things in its favour. I haven’t tried it yet.

[@pr1me840]

If you really want to be fussy, you must also paint the sides. When you sliced the canvas you exposed the fibers.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Good point!

[@chrisdonahue]

Pretty cool! Do you seal the back with anything? Also, when it comes time to frame would you just float it? Or do you paint with a margin like in printing?

[@artmeetsgeoff]

No, I don’t think I will need to seal the back. I paint to the edge, but keep anything interesting away from the edge to allow for framing. That way I can frame normally, or float-frame.

[@plantasmr]

Hi, great vid. I'm also in Australia, can I ask why you don't want zinc in your primer?

[@artmeetsgeoff]

It has been associated with paint cracking, flaking and in some cases delaminating. There are articles on MITRA (google it) which speak of this. The amount of zinc is subject to debate, but a few paint manufacturers are phasing zinc out due to this. Annoying, because zinc is fun to paint with.

[@plantasmr]

@@artmeetsgeoff oh good to know, thanks so much

[@annsalty5615]

I hate to break this to you but the glue will ooze up thru the pre primed canvas. So, the lead primer is adhering to the glue which may delaminate over time. Probably sooner than later. I have seen this within just a few years. I would suggest another method. Glue raw linen on the panel using sizing glue, also onto surface of linen. Then apply primer.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Hi, thanks. I got my advice from MITRA. The PVA (must be pH neutral) acts as a barrier (see link below). I think I understand what you are saying, but in the way demonstrated I am attaching pre-primed (acrylic) canvas, and applying a lead ground on top of the acrylic priming afterwards. So, in order: ACM, PVA, linen, acrylic priming, lead ground afterwards, then painting. www.artcons.udel.edu/mitra/Documents/Adhesives-and-Sizes.pdf

[@annsalty5615]

@@artmeetsgeoff I need to explain this better. The glue oozes up and over the already dried primer on your pre primed canvas. It will not stay adhered on top of an already dried primer. It will shift and peel off. So you end up applying your next ground, or paint, on glue that is not meant to be on top of a ground. Has nothing to do with ph. If you do not believe me, put some pigment in the glue before gluing on the canvas and see that it creates another layer on top of the canvas. Let it dry. Then see how easily it peels off.

[@annsalty5615]

@@artmeetsgeoff i just wanted to add, I discovered this problem after I bought panels made with glued on primed linen from a well known company who specializes in making these. Very expensive. All my paintings, took about 4 years to show up, had issues with the paint layer adhering. I then inspected some unused panels, and sure enough, the glue was clearly flaking on top of the primed surface. It had oozed up thru the pores of the primed canvas. I shutter at the thought what my sold paintings have done. Now, there may be a way to clean the glue off? Maybe sanding. I do not know. But I now stick to avoiding this.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Thanks for this. I’ve got some panels I can test. Three thoughts arise: (1) could the quality of the triple-primed linen mean there are no pores for the glue to ooze through? I can test that with some colour as you suggested. I will do that. Knowing me, that could be weeks. (2) if that fails, I could look into a contact glue method (not wet glue), I avoided this because it makes it harder for conservators to remove the linen if needed. (3) I could bite the bullet and use BEVA film (seems more fiddly, definitely more expensive). I’ll start with (1).

[@annsalty5615]

@@artmeetsgeoff Another test is to hold the pre primed linen up to the light. The holes are barely visible but they are likely there. I have tested all I have bought by Claussens oil primed which is the best linen I know of. One thing I have not done is test with linen I have sized and primed on stretchers. I might check it. The holes may show up in the rolling. Probably the best solution would be to glue raw linen onto panels using sizing glue, front and back. Then prime it. I have done that. Is far less work and expense too. Good luck!

[@chrisdonahue]

Oh yea was wondering do you make your own gesso? Or you just use modern latex paint gesso?

[@artmeetsgeoff]

No, because I am buying pre-primed linen, I don’t gesso. The pre-priming is acrylic, not oil-based, because I am avoiding zinc white which is often present in oil-based pre-primed linen.

[@chrisdonahue]

@@artmeetsgeoff ah right! Must have missed that 😅 I do appreciate brands like ‘Masterpiece’ that will prime it 4x for ya

[@MondoRockable]

Are you aware of any process to join multiple ACM panels together, to make one large substrate (as opposed to purchasing a larger piece, which I think tops out at 4'x8' or 5x12' depending on manufacturer)? Thanks.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

No, sorry. If you search for “cradling ACM” (this is about reinforcing larger sheets prior to framing) you might get some ideas that could be useful.

[@arthurmtrin]

Hi Geoff. What kind of ACM do you recommend? Where I live there is a lot of different surfaces and colors.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

I found something called econopanel. I got 4mm although I’m sure 3mm would be fine. I just got the cheapest version that was covered on both sides with a colour (so it wasn’t raw aluminium). I also got it pre-cut, although that meant I had to think about sizes first. Anything coated on both sides (has a colour) should be fine.

[@austinmurphy8981]

Is there a size limit for this method, as in, once the work gets to a certain larger size, would it be more advisble to use stretcher bars?

[@artmeetsgeoff]

I haven’t tried it for very large pieces. At some point for very large paintings I imagine it becomes too difficult to move if it can’t be rolled up. There’s also a weight consideration at very large sizes too.

[@TheAmazingSpaghetti]

You may run into larger panels being warped before and/or after you prep them, depending on what kind of panel. Some people attach metal L-channel bars onto the back with glue, or other methods, which I'm going to try.

[@ederamuscat9436]

Can this be done with already finished oil paintings? (Not yet varnished)

[@artmeetsgeoff]

In principle, yes, but I haven’t done it. However, you would need to be very sure the glue didn’t bleed through the back of the canvas. To be really safe, probably should use archival BEVA glue sheet/film - but I have never used this myself. If using glue, I would try it out on a small non-valuable painted canvas first.

[@arttesting2471]

How strong does that glue hold the linen to the aluminum?

[@artmeetsgeoff]

It seems to hold it very strongly so far. PVA is used in woodworking and creates a bond there that is considered stronger than the wood. Note that I use ph neutral PVA, and now put it on both the canvas and the panel. The concern I have seen others express is that, while it is reversible by some future conservator, it is hard work - again suggesting the bond is strong.

[@arttesting2471]

@@artmeetsgeoff can landgride archival glue be purchased in the USA

[@arttesting2471]

@@artmeetsgeoff i have both the acm panel and linen and currently in search of a strong glue to bond the 2 together...lineco is not strong enough...i can easily peal off the linen...im testing out laminal which is stronger but that langridge is only available to purchase in australia..im in belize...bought both lineco and laminal from the states...help please

[@artmeetsgeoff]

I would have used Lineco, but couldn’t get it in Australia. Interesting that you can peel it off. The ability to peel it off if you *want* to is a plus, but not if it just peels off so easily that it happens accidentally. In the one that peeled off, had you scuffed the surface of the panel and then cleaned it with isopropyl alcohol?

[@arttesting2471]

@@artmeetsgeoff ill post a video off all that i do with the other glues as because im very much interested in using langridge because i want tge strongest bond i can get...lineco holds pretty strong to ampersand wood panels ...laminal hold pretty good to aluminum but i want something u will break a sweat trying to rip off the aluminum

[@yoheff988]

Why wast money on canvas, you can easily paint onto the aluminum after priming it.

[@artmeetsgeoff]

Because the long term effects (ie longevity) of painting directly are unknown. It *might* be ok, but nobody knows. The way canvas interacts with paint are well known to conservators and provide a known path to a painting lasting for centuries (especially if on a hard substrate). Not everyone cares if their art will last, but for those that do just hoping painting directly onto ACM works is not enough. 🙂