Lines That Never Were: Jubilee Line to Hayes and Addiscombe

The fourth and final part of our look into the Jubilee Line we didn’t get.
Part 1: • Lines That Never Were:...
Part 2: • Lines That Never Were:...
Part 3: • Lines That Never Were:...
ko-fi.com/jago...
/ jagohazzard

[@rjds1800]

Catford cat fight sounds fascinating.

[@jimtaylor294]

Well... Tomcat Fight anyway XD

[@alexhando8541]

Was it a similar situation to the circle line slap fight?

[@rahimjoseph211]

Come and visit Catford mate. Check out some of my vids I’m from the area and there certainly is a fight.

[@55555konman55555]

Please do catford. It’s where I grew up.

[@neilforbes416]

@@55555konman55555 Might be *pussin'* it a bit!

[@ANDRSNS]

Asking your audience if we want to know more. Heck, sir, we're outright craving to know more. I'm pretty much confident I'm speaking for the majority of us. Right, chaps?

[@fl-v8843]

Andrew Sudarikov Probably my second favourite thing about Jago's channel is that at any point I could find a new video in my subscriptions that I know I will find interesting. My favourite thing is of course Jago's narration voice.

[@lapeez2277]

yerrr

[@oc2phish07]

Definitely!

[@martynroberts7437]

Yes the Catford controversy!

[@lifebites21]

I always want to know more!

[@Sammie_Sorrelly]

To my recollection, Elmer was a multicoloured elephant I read about in primary school, so perhaps his end allowed for the production of that iconic glue, for which we should all be grateful.

[@jimtaylor294]

This XD

[@sdrawkcabUK]

Funny as that building in Lewisham you can glimpse at the start of the vid always reminds me of Elmer the elephant.

[@SynchroScore]

That Elmer wasn't an elephant, but a bull. His sister Elsie is still the symbol of Borden's Dairy, while Elmer's Glue was made from milk caseinate. Not quite sure what a bull had to do with that, but that's why I don't do marketing.

[@declanclark5316]

"If there was a solid plan in place to extend the tube to Hayes, would Bromley Council have objected to the scheme?" Of course they would. Because Bromley.

[@jimtuite3451]

Regarding the proposed Bakerloo extension, it still bugs me that the GLC turned down a great opportunity in the early 80s to reach New Coss with minimal work. The old Southern railway goods depot at Bricklayers Arms roundabout, half a mile east of Elephant & Castle, was closed and the tracks that led there from just north of New Cross station were lying there abandoned. The depot and track could have been bought off British Rail by the GLC but instead were turned over to housing following the road now known as Mandela Way. All that was needed was half a mile of new tunnel between the Elephant and Bricklayers Arms but the scheme never got approved. Even more frustrating was that London Underground had an existing team from the Victoria line, Jubilee line and Heathrow extension that could have designed and engineered this project at minimal cost but sadly they were allowed to disband. So instead, forty years later, we are looking at building an all-new tube line under the old Kent Road to provide transport for the people in the houses built on the old goods tracks (sigh)

[@jimtaylor294]

Big government in a nutshell really.

[@geoffreyhobbs1548]

In my opinion the biggest mistake, apart from closing so many lines and stations in the first place (especially in the 1960's and '70's), was to allow any of the land occupied by them to be sold off for purposes that made re-opening either physically impossible or prohibitively expensive. I wonder how many of the current proposals to re-open some lines will be achieved in my lifetime?

[@darrengomes2203]

It wasn’t the GLC that turned it down, it was Thatcher that put a stop to the completion of the original Jubilee Line route. The GLC fought tooth and nail to get it completed, under both Tory and Labour control. As to the land and property, that all got sold off after the break up of British Rail and privatisation.

[@jimtuite3451]

@@geoffreyhobbs1548 yep, couldnt agree more. In france, when a railway line closes, it has to lie disused for ten years before its developed - just in case it needs to be reopened. The plans for crossrail two show a branch at seven sisters going off to wood green and new southgate - or in other words, following the course of the old palace gates brach that was closed in the 1960s and is now almost entirely built over with houses, schools and Wood Green shopping city!

[@capcompass9298]

I was told that they clay soil in South London is not good for Underground. Maybe technology has improved but I always found South London rail lines very confusing and have a BR map tracing the lines from the main central termini in colour.

[@koene2276]

Maps! Thank you from a non-Londoner. Mind you, I'd still watch your videos regardless.

[@billiondollarman3847]

The CATFORD stations sounds like it will make a Great video. Two dudes hating each other.

[@notaplic8158]

it does indeed seem like a good premise for a video!

[@johnbowles4754]

I'll second that.

[@neilforbes416]

I have a feline there'd be a bit of "puss" & shove going on here!

[@johncrwarner]

A video done while travelling by train from Catford Bridge to Catford or vice versa of course.

[@jimtuite3451]

I loved the way the old Catford greyhound track was squeezed between the two stations ....alas no more :-(

[@barrywood2806]

Geoff Marshall made a video about the two Catford stations which is a bit quirky. He tried to buy a ticket between the two, without success. Which is common sense of course. But he did the journey between the two by rail anyway, because he's like that. His videos and yours compliment each other very well.

[@jainee4507]

South London needs tube stations. Full stop. At least within all of zone 2. There’s a reason South London is sometimes referred to as “South of London”.

[@highpath4776]

You could move the Thames north.

[@nathanw9770]

@@highpath4776 300iq

[@Ropponmatsu2]

Good luck paying for it. As someone who lives in the North of the UK, South London has a surface rail network the rest of us envy. You can't fight geology when it comes to digging deep tubes, but you can spend money. Your own money, since it is South London that benefits.

[@nonsuch9301]

@@Ropponmatsu2 Well if you put your prejudice aside long enough to notice you would have seen that most of these tracks being proposed are above ground so no tunelling required. Secondly , London and the South East had net fiscal surpluses in the financial year ending (FYE) 2020, with all other countries and regions of the UK having net fiscal deficits.Londons net fiscal surplus of £4,030 per head is the highest in the country, which is a long way of saying that London pays far more in taxation than it receives , so if you really want to advocate for more regionalism in public spending and that the South can take on the burden of paying for things in the South and the North can take on the burden of paying for things in the North then , as someone who lives in the South I say fine. I'm all for it , in fact bring it on , I dare you.

[@QuantumScratcher]

@@nathanw9770 move London south 4 0 0 I Q M O V E

[@jlscoyserney]

Literally ran past that old wall in addiscombe the other day and though "I hope somebody on youtube tells me what that is eventually" you've delivered. Thanks

[@neilforbes416]

One of your maps proclaiming "Here be dragons!" That's where you go to roast your marshmallows! LOL

[@rogerkearns8094]

Slightly inconsequentially, did you know that it was once planned to extend the Metropolitan Line beyond Watford station by tunneling under Cassiobury Park and arriving at a town centre station opposite the top of Clarendon Road? (That's why the platforms at Watford station - known locally as Watford Met to distinguish it from Watford Junction main line - are built below street level, i.e. the line had been expected to extend directly into a tunnel.) Also, a year or two or three ago some plans for a new scribble of Metropolitan lines near Watford were - er - scribbled out. Cheers :)

[@jimtuite3451]

The never-ending battle to get the metropolitain line diverted to watford junction would be a good subject for a future Jago video... not just the route but also the riddiculous rising costs and bickering between hertfordshire and watford councils, london underground and the department of transport over who pays for it and who gets the money for selling off watford (met) station.once its closed

[@YetAnotherGeorgeth]

If you have to ask "would you like to see me talk about X" then you should know by now the answer is and always will be yes!

[@jovanweismiller7114]

The name Elmers End comes from the Aylmer family, local landowners in the 13th century. And, YES! I want to know more about Catford and Catford Bridge!

[@MichaelTavares]

Good to see you dipping your toes into graphical representations of lines. It’s appreciated

[@leonnehaaijman4709]

“If you want to have that Croydon ambience in Dorset” 😂

[@marcrotterdam010]

Thank you for taking us on a little tour on the tram, I love trams! Interesting to see that the tram might not have been in existence if certain tube expansion did happen. I also believe that there are alternate universes in which certain major events have played out differently and it's the same world but totally different but with all of us in it. Well, at least I like to play with that idea in my head.

[@spurioustransients]

I've lived in Hayes and Bromley for much of my childhood. Everyone used to give their address as being in Kent even though they were actually in Greater London. Actually I genuinely thought for a very long time that we were part of Kent. It was just one of those things.

[@prime1971]

Love the little Easter eggs (cartography is hard lol)

[@PhilipStorry]

The Mid-Kent Line was built in Kent, but Kent moved... Or rather then county line for Kent moved. The Clock House station on this line is very near to a station called Kent House, which was named for an old manor house & farm. The manor house was named Kent House because, as you left London, it was the first house in Kent you'd see. The manor house is long since gone, but the area name remains. The original Mid-Kent Line between was part of the railway rush towards the Kent coast and the lucrative port towns, especially Dover. It was originally supposed to be part of a series of links that would ultimately join up with the East Kent Railway at Strood. This was all to compete with the South Eastern Railway company. Who were contracted to run the Mid Kent Line route anyway. SER had a competing route to Dover, but it was longer and slower. LCDR later built a tunnel under Sydenham Hill towards Victoria, and the Mid Kent Line became surplus to requirements and the whole Mid Kent Line became part of SER anyway. And that's just the short version,before we start talking about the extension to Hayes... You know what, it's all bloody complicated, and would take ages to explain. Let's just assume there's a damned good reason for it to be called the Mid Kent Line, tell everyone it's a historical artefact, and go and have a pint instead...

[@willmill82]

Well, historically Kent House was on the Kent/Surrey border - Beckenham being in Kent, Penge being in Surrey. However between 1889 and 1965, where Sydenham was in London and Beckenham was still in Kent, the border would have been fairly close by, just by Lennard Road

[@sdrawkcabUK]

@@willmill82 Yes, however the border continues to exist today. One cannot dismember Kent.

[@highpath4776]

@@willmill82 Yes the joy and confusion to householders when I deliver Bromley Telephone Directories to SE postcodes, and vice versa ( mainly due to where the GPO exchanges historically covered !!)

[@slaphead55]

From Woodside the line split and the other ran on to join the main London to Brighton line near Selsdon. That closed in 1983 to make way for the trams but a section of track still remains under a footbridge in South Croydon at the old Spencer Road Halt. The Addiscombe tram stop is on the site of the old Bingham Road station. Part of the track now used by the trams at Sandilands was where the tragic tram crash happened not so long ago. As mentioned earlier, it's pronounced Addiscum, here in Croydon anyway ;-)

[@ShedTV]

I lived in Addiscombe about 30 years ago long before the trams. The old station was still there by Grant Road, but I never used it; there were no trains going anywhere useful. There was a railway bridge with no deck over Lower Addiscombe Road, where the new tram stop is, and it had a taxi office built into one side. I often wondered if it had been an old station building. I think there was another bridge remnant behind the tram stop on Bingham Road too. Be interesting to learn more.

[@ethanlittle776]

Woodside has a ramp down the side of the station which was used for offloading horses for a nearby race track in the 1800s. Also the old Addiscombe station would have been an old railway shunt yard. Would recommend the railway walk and garden from Blackhorse lane tram stop down to the new housing estate.

[@sdrawkcabUK]

The line *is* in Kent. Despite the various changes to administrative entities, our Historic Counties remain today as they have done for centuries, a fact confirmed by the government in 2013.

[@sdrawkcabUK]

ps. Elmers End refers to the 'end' of lands owned by the Aylmer family here way back when.

[@obsessivelocust]

Lol good luck finding the government 'confirming' that - maybe a local MP did just to shut you freaks up. Humans create counties, so they can change them. Tough titties.

[@sdrawkcabUK]

@@obsessivelocust Wrong: www.gov.uk/government/publications/celebrating-the-historic-counties-of-england/celebrating-the-historic-counties-of-england & britishcountyflags.com/county-definitions/ The Counties Live! Yesterday, today and forever.

[@obsessivelocust]

@@sdrawkcabUK Nowhere does that document say that historical counties actually EXIST for any practical purpose - it's just talking how you are allowed to promote them. If they don't have any administrative function, how do they exist? In your mind? This is human geography we're talking about - it's not ingrained and unchangeable. Also that document is only referring to the 1972 act, whereas Greater London (both administrative area and Ceremonial County) was established in 1965.

[@sdrawkcabUK]

@@obsessivelocust This is a misunderstanding based on the unfortunate choice of nomenclature, where new administrative areas were dubbed 'counties'. As the government said in 1972 "They [the new councils] are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties". Furthermore: The DOE in 1991: "The Local Government Act 1972 did not abolish traditional counties, only administrative ones. Although for local government purposes some of the historic counties have ceased to be administrative areas, they continue to exist for other purposes, organisations and local groups." The DCLG in 1996: "[the 1972 etc. acts] did not specifically abolish traditional counties so traditional counties still exist but no longer for the administration of local government." And many other similar such statements over the years (see: britishcountyflags.com/county-definitions/) The historic counties thus exist, just as The Midlands exists or in Ireland the ancient provinces of Ulster, Munster, Connaught and Leinster exist, or in the USA New England exists, despite none of these entities having an administrative function. What God hath wrought, let no man cast asunder.

[@amethyst7084]

Thanks for this video, Jago. Another really interesting one. I can remember seeing a London Railway map in the 90s (I think I donated it to the London Transport Museum), which showed Addiscombe and a few other stations which had closed. I had no idea they were possible Jubilee Line destinations. London really needs more tube stations south of the Thames. 👍🏾🚉

[@HonestMan112]

There's a big Tesco at Elmer's end, if that's helpful.

[@PianoKwanMan]

With a double decker car park on stilts

[@kevinmayers4346]

Thank you I have subscribed and I am addicted to your channel.I miss London.I loved London even more than my own country.Met amazing friends from around the world.The Jubilee line was my fav line to travel on.I wish to visit again when this pandemic is over and visit places mentioned in your videos.Some are bringing back lovely memories and because I know what the weather is like in London now I'm sending some sunshine your way.🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹🇹

[@simonbeaird7436]

2:57: 'Here be dragons'. 😁 They should put this on any proposed Tube route!

[@GNTel313]

Interesting film Jago. Let's not stop that flight of fancy. Just think, the Jubilee line to Hayes and Addiscombe ... and possibly even Sanderstead. That line closed in 1983 so it could have been saved/incorporated. I can just imagine LT roundels at Bingham Rd, Coombe Rd, Selsdon and Sanderstead !!

[@eimdeima]

That was a nice little vid on my old stomping grounds, I started in Hayes, then off to New Beckenham area, finished off in Addiscombe, between Black horse lane and Addiscombe high st. In North Devon now, soon to be moving over the boarder south into Cornwall. Made me reminisce for a while. Thanks.

[@PeterWillson]

I think it's pronounced Addis-com not Addis-coom!

[@markwhickman351]

Or possibly -cm, -cmb or -cum? But definitely not coom. I feel I suffered enough on my bus to school route while the tram was being built to have an opinion :p

[@SK_3PT1]

Jago's british accent is quite strong though

[@georgec1720]

I guess coom is probably the right pronunciation but have never heard anyone call it that. 😂 Ah-dis-cum

[@markwhickman351]

@@SK_3PT1 there's no such thing as a British accent.

[@SK_3PT1]

Mark Whickman then is it just english?

[@edepillim]

End, as in Elmers End, Poynders End etc refers to old parish boundaries so Elmers End was the boundary of a parish.

[@benjaminchadwick3875]

Did you even have to ask? Of COURSE we want a Catford video! :)

[@JagoHazzard]

It’s on the way!

[@evelynesimon5758]

I want to know more about the Catford's dudes.

[@bussesandtrains1218]

circle line slap fight explains the topic briefly. Watkin and Forbes hated each over because their railways competed in the same jurisdiction of Kent and east Sussex and subsequently went on a mass line building campaign witch resulted in small villages having 2 or 3 stations. by 1899 they moved to the metropolitan and district railways respectively (which is were circle line slap fight takes place) and the south eastern and London Chatham and Dover were merged into the south eastern and Chatham because what better name than the greatest craphole on the entire network am i right?

[@MannyAntipov]

As you have said, if the West Croydon to Wimbledon line increased national rail traffic, chances are that the London Overground would've run it by now.

[@brucewilliams8714]

Will never be in Britain again, but I do enjoy your educating me.

[@mikemidulster]

'Commemorate his end'. ha ha! Yes please tell us more about the Catford rivalry.

[@pilchardpliskin9381]

In 1857, lewisham was in kent. the boundary for kent was redrawn when the london county council was created in 1889 and lewisham was placed under the LCC's control instead of Kent County Council.

[@capcompass9298]

The cat-fight at Catford sounds like the various rail companies i Victorian times fighting each other so there was never a Grand Central Station, and the Queensway tube station was built on Bayswater, and the Bayswater on Queensway only a few hundred yards apart. Charing Cross to Embankment takes 11 seconds by tube but 10 minutes or more to walk (overground) yet Mansion House, one can walk for quarter hour or more to link stations.

[@cd0u50c9]

The Catford 'IT'S COMPLICATED' status video would be great! +1 vote on that. Keep up your stellar work, sir.

[@alexhatfield2987]

YES, Always wondered why Catford had twin stations. Do the video please.

[@arthome2441]

I never knew about this plan! Woodside is where my fromer high school is!!!

[@MarkMcCluney]

Well, now that you've mentioned it you really have to tell us the Catford Story. Thanks for this - I don't live anywhere near London and will probably never again get the opportunity to visit but I find these fascinating and wouldn't miss one. So roll on Catford and more newt/Livingstone references. Thanks again.

[@CA-ee1et]

"The Mid Kent line isn't in Kent." Come come, check your history: Lewisham and Bromley very much were in Kent in 1857 when it opened.

[@crossleydd42]

Yes. Kent and Surrey , until the 1880s, covered all the South side of the Thames (hence the Surrey Docks) and all of North London was (and was run by) the county of Middlesex, right along to the River Lea and Essex, apart from the City of London and City of Westminster, who were self-administraiting. This all changed when the London County Council was formed in 1889 and, with it, the County of London, which then incorporated the City of Westminster.

[@capcompass9298]

@@crossleydd42 Don't forget the North Woolwich enclave.

[@crossleydd42]

@@capcompass9298 Yes, very odd. The boundary went through the Albert Dock and the adjacent one whose name I forget. Yet, it was not alone. When you look at old maps, a particular county often had bits of its county in the neighbouring one(s)! What amuses me that Middlesex is still used in folks' addresses, when the county finally disappeared in 1963!

[@capcompass9298]

@@crossleydd42 Most of the enclaves were cleared up in 1844 act of parliament (but not all). Although I was born in Middx, (Muswell Hill) my mother always said i was born in London, the border being only 100 yards from our house. She meant the postal district, i meant the borough. Later in life, i flatted in Middx, the London border was then at our back hedge. The house behind was in London (postal district). Middx County disappeared 1965 but not the postal district.

[@capcompass9298]

@@crossleydd42 Check "The County Maps of Old England", Thomas Moule, ISBN 1 85170 403 5 for county enclaves.

[@physiocrat7143]

Trains used to run through Catford to Sanderstead. There was a destination board on the down platform which was displayed when there was a Sanderstead train next.

[@MrEconomist]

3:00 "Here be dragons" made me chuckle

[@ajsgaming8003]

i used to travel to woodside a lot from 2004 to visit my then gf, how strange it is to think that it could hav been an underground station.

[@srhvideo]

The Addiscombe tram stop is actually more or less on the site of Bingham Road Station, about 20 metres along and 3 metres down. Bingham Road was the location for the train scene at the opening of the Tony Hancock film 'The Rebel'. PS us Croydon types pronounce it Addiscum

[@whyyoulidl]

Another great vid, spliced with humour, dragons and difficult map drawing lol. Yes pls, wld love more info on the Catford mates catastrophe conundrum crisis.

[@paulhaynes8045]

I want more maps even more after seeing these!

[@sweet813one]

Hayes and Addiscombe branch on Jubilee line: *I died* Hayes and proposed extension to Bromley branch via Old Kent Road on Bakerloo line: But I lived!

[@highpath4776]

Somehow a brown line extending down Old Kent Road seems rather apt.

[@e.c.listening326]

It is a funny little island you‘ve got there 😄 i liked the slam door trains best

[@mikegillard7283]

25k subs! Well done and thank you for the tales.

[@ironjade]

Two stations in a place where no one in their right mind would ever want to go.

[@StrikingAlexa]

Hayes, West Wickham, Eden Park and Elmer's End were in Kent when the mid Kent line was built and until 1965

[@joshuahalla.k.a.controlla6333]

Great video. ☺️

[@knightsofn1]

Love the shot you chose for Ken Livingstone

[@JagoHazzard]

Thanks! It was going to be an actual photo of Ken, but then as I was filming in the park I saw that newt sign and, well, sometimes life writes the jokes for you.

[@jodypitt3629]

Hello again Jago, I'm a highly prolific graphite pencil sketch artist, I've drawn both "The Elmer Lodge", which is now a public house and "The Elmer Grange" of which this long gone.

[@sporkafife]

My favourite underground station is now "Cartography is Hard" station, because it speaks to my soul

[@LeTon75]

I love the way Jago says Addiscombe

[@Haobey]

Yes a bit of London tram knowledge!

[@neilthehermit4655]

Yes please more on Catford/cat fight. Another excellent vid,keep 'em coming !

[@digitalcasio2704]

I'm going to build that Jubilee line extension and knock down that housing estate. Then we can reinstate that wall back into a station. Btw, yes to the Catford episode.

[@craigthurston7731]

Cartography is hard absolutely broke me. 😅😅😅 Thanks Jago.

[@nicolasansom2681]

"Croydon ambience in Dorset" 😆

[@richardcrossley5581]

When I lived in the UK, a colleague of mine suggested I lived in "Zone there be dragons there." OK, I grew up in Wales, but I lived in Surrey at the time.

[@emjayvick511]

Fascinating.. Im sure the fleet line.ran from CX down to Aldwych but never used.

[@TransportGeekery]

Extend Tramlink to Lewisham and then on to Stratford via DLR rails so we can have a mega light rail outer orbital instead.

[@shaunwest3612]

Great video jago, very interesting subject,I don't live in London,but I'm a fan of the tube👍👌😀

[@gary3561]

Elmers end refers to 13th century landowners named Aylmer. They owned a lodge on whats now South Norwood park (counry park)

[@batman51]

Elmers End: The earliest known documentary evidence of the district is found in four deeds from the reign of Henry III (1216-1272), which refer to the lease of land from Ralph Aylmer and his son Richard. The name Elmer was in earlier times often spelt Aylmer, Eylmer, Ailmer. It is a family that appears in references as early as 1308 regarding the taking of timber to repair the church and early tax rolls in 1328 and 1345 . How they met their End is not recorded.

[@karljoachimgoll]

Elmer's End comes from Elmar Fudd, who hunted rabbits in the area and is believed to have had a terrible accident at the spot, where nowadays the station is. 🙃

[@HazelReserveUnit]

I feel like this section of line could've been another MGC&JR type deal. With both BR (at that point) and Underground trains servicing the branch under joint ownership. Could've been a neat idea. Would have also saved the branch from being turned into housing.

[@AnnabelSmyth]

Yes, please do tell us about the two Catford stations!

[@GTRider69]

Oh yes please tell us more about Catford.

[@sylviaelse5086]

I always felt that the Jubilee line as it existed before its more recent extension was something of a con-job, consisting as it did of a few kilometres of new track joined to a much greater length Bakerloo line track that was simply renamed, while forcing some passengers who previously didn't need to change trains to change at Baker Street. Mind you, it would have obviated the several times I ended up in St John's Wood, rather than Edgware Road due to inattention, which was doubly annoying because of the distance and time involved, which is totally misrepresented by the tube map.

[@gileswendes1934]

Thanks for putting maps!

[@hglf9764]

I live in Catford and would love to know more. Also I am forever confused that Catford station is on a bridge and Catford Bridge isn't.

[@uk-martin4905]

Help may be at hand! Catford Bridge station opened in 1857, some 35 years before Catford. The railway line through Catford Bridge runs parallel with, and only a few feet away from, the River Ravensbourne at that point. Could it be that the 'Bridge' reference was actually in respect of the nearby road bridge which crosses the Ravensbourne a few yards away from the station? Obviously in 1892 when the other Catford station was built the appendix 'Bridge' was no longer available to it. Today, the railway overbridge close to Catford Station, high enough to allow double decker buses to pass below, cannot be missed......unlike the road bridge which rises on a low embankment to carry the South Circular Road over the River Ravensbourne close to Catford Bridge station - a feature which might be overlooked if one were not paying attention. As a child I lived in Addiscombe between 1955 and 1968. It seems much has changed; I was particularly saddened to see the condition of Woodside station.

[@actuallypaulstanley]

I remember the bus fare being 2p in the early 80's and being able to buy a Red Bus 'Rover' ticket for, I think 60p, and you could go anywhere on the buses in a day. We always challenged ourselves to get the furthest possible from Upminster... Also remember the £1 day travel card, where you could go anywhere on the tube network on that day. Same again, see how many 'end of lines' we could achieve in a day...

[@IndigoJo]

Not only "not in Kent" but when part of it was, it was in the far west of Kent. As for Bromley v GLC, parts of the line are indeed in Bromley but the line misses the three biggest towns in the borough, i.e. Bromley, Orpington and Beckenham. Those are still on the main lines and people would not have gone from any of those places to catch a tube at Hayes; it's miles out of the way.

[@faris1498]

The 2 Catford dudes who hated each other would make a great video

[@Tgbec]

The Catford idea sounds good. Can’t most stations on the rail networks excuse for being built, is that two people didn’t like each other, money and up yours il make my own.

[@camscott8402]

Spill the beans on the Cat fight

[@edwardsp1916]

More on Catford please!

[@jackiebayliss]

Agreed.

[@MadDragon-lb7qg]

Interesting.....My Dad lives a stone's throw from Norden, the Terminus of the Swanage Railway, and I've been on it, never knew about the Croydon connection.

[@RJE48]

Have you thought about doing a video around the tram extension to Sutton which has now been shelved for the 4th/5th time? There was also limited talk before the war about the tube going all the way to Sutton but I think that would be a better solution now than the proposed tramlink

[@idova]

A tube map with the marking 'Here be dragons' sounds like its striaght out of 'Neverwhere'

[@notaplic8158]

Ooh! I get to be first! I haven't watched it fully yet but I am sure it will be a great video! well, I was first when I made that comment but I still get to be the first decent quality comment! I have now watched it entirely and its a great video! Thanks for the info!

[@sirkastic]

spoiler alert. It wasn't

[@christopherspence6459]

The term ‘Elmerus’ was regarded as a traitor in Anglo Saxon. The Green was the site of many hangings during the 15th and 16th centuries, hence how Elmers End potentially got its name! Quote by Wikipedia

[@Locomotiveman1994]

Ah yes, who doesn't know the stations 'Other Stuff', 'Cartography is Hard' and 'Various Stations in the Docklands'. And, of course, the famous line to 'Here be dragons'!

[@highpath4776]

In fairness other commenters on other videos had asked for maps, so pleased that these have been added and are highly informative and convey the right amount of information, Beck would have been proud ( hey Jago lets see your entire London Rail map, , the present one is too large and wont fit nicely on trifold card in your pocket now so the next iteration needs doing.

[@GojiMet86]

Yay, you put maps in the video! I was wondering what the extension of the Jubilee to Hayes would have looked like. The Bakerloo extension map shows it will be basically underground from Elephant & Castle to Lewisham. I am wondering if the line would pop out of the ground before Lewisham, or after it.

[@AdamPTrainz]

YES Catford video please

[@user-pw3tr1xg2x]

Thank you for explaining about Elmer Redline.Just read your comment after asking the question.

[@JamesTheBell1]

Jago's audience: "Maps would be useful in your videos" Jago:

[@MIkeDye200202holla]

The catford video sounds like a great idea

[@chrisjinks5197]

Will 100% need to be told about the original Catford beef.

[@wendyrual7179]

Would love to hear about the 2 dudes Another funny informative vid 👍💕

[@Andrewjg_89]

But now it looks like the Bakerloo Line is to extend from Elephant & Castle to Hayes and Bromley via Old Kent Road and could have new stations built. As well taking over the Hayes Line that Southeastern trains operates on. And with connections with Tramlink and DLR as well.

[@andyjay729]

Meow yeah, I'd like to know more about why Catford has two stations. (Too many mice in the area?)

[@highpath4776]

Loosely one travels southwards, the other eastwards.

[@Sobol3D]

maybe do a video about lines/stations that almost didn't made it to exist, but we have them, that would be interesting