Linked Elevated Radial System: Game-Changing Antenna Performance

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

I'd like to make an acknowledgement and a correction to this video: The formula for a 1/4 wave radiator is: Length in feet = 234 / Frequency in Mhz. This will give you the dimensions for the whip and radial lengths on your preferred operating frequencies. In the video the numbers in the formula were inverted. I apologize for the error. I'd also like to acknowledge, Greg KJ6ER, and his POTA PERformer vertical antenna. Dave's design of the linked radial is similar , but developed independently, from Greg's. Greg's plans go into more detail and have some antenna modeling plots that are helpful. You can contact Greg for the plans here: www.qrz.com/db/KJ6ER or find them online in the Parks on the Air Facebook group: facebook.com/groups/parksontheair/permalink/3129040974053415

[@billjobes1851]

This is what makes your channel great, Michael. Innovation, collaboration with experts like Dave, and crystal clear demonstrations of how to deploy creative solutions to aid our eternal quest for strong-signal hamming. Thank you both !

[@allenmcgee9379]

@@billjobes1851 yes it is easy to follow and understand as they take their time to explain it. I am not a math wizard or tech guy by any stretch but this video, the magic carpet video, and a video a while back on the Yaesu FT-891 setup has really been great.

[@45auto]

Probably the best demonstration of the setup and tuning of an elevated radial I've seen. U-rah-rah

[@KC3UVF]

Welcome to the club. I've been using a pair of elevated, tuned, linked radials Per KJ6ER since I got my license. I deploy it everywhere, POTA, the yard, the park across the street, you name it. Easily portable and HIGHLY effective.

[@GeorgeSaletPlumbing]

I really like the string with knots idea, that is always accurate better than find a sharpie mark and you never know if one of the sections has slipped down

[@tomw3380]

Hey Mike, thanks for bringing Dave on your channel to show and explain his findings. Excellent discussion and demonstration. It was so interesting, I immediately went to DX Electronics to check on a 17 foot Chameleon Whip. Of course they were sold out and on order. 🙀. Thanks Dave for sharing your time and experience. Tom-WA4EOD

[@HamAround23]

I used the kj6er plans to build a pair of linked elevated radials and used them today with my 17ft whip and I must say I'm really impressed. Band conditions seemed pretty up and down this afternoon but I was able to easily put 24 in the log on 20m during a quick 30 min activation before work.

[@K3JRZOnTheAir]

The design is very similar to the Buddistick Pro, minus the coil. BRILLIANT! The linked radial is another brilliant idea! That should have been something integrated into the design of the Buddistick Pro. Great idea Dave!

[@dnssigns]

I used to use a 135' end fed for pota. This past spring i was up in NC and tried something different for speed of setup. It was hamsticks on a tridod with 3 elevated radials for each band. The radials were pretty much setup the same with clips. I was simply amazed at how well that setup did. I logged contacts from New Zealand , up to Hawaii and Alaska and all over europe on 17 and 20 meters.

[@pgramsey1]

I just built one of these using a MFJ-1979, a mirror mount, electric fence pole, and some 26 ga wire. Took me the better part of the day to get it all tuned up. Start at 10 m and work out. It works, with no giant radial farm. I got an all plastic post at HD, not stiff enough in bending, to support the antenna, so it needs guy ropes. Will replace with metal. The plastic post is fine for radial support.

[@toddhowell2299]

I found that using the elevated vertical/radial also lets me get 20m with my 17' whip, which will really only get me the very top end of 20 if I use it on the ground. I use band specific radials, but the linked system looks nice. I didn't go crazy tuning them, either. It's a nice system that works really well. I found that clamping to park grills can make it tough to tune. Probably too much metal. But they do work. If you live where the ground freezes, two fiberglas rods lashed together leaning away work well to support the end of the radial. Someone makes an expensive version of that for the Buddipole. I love that knot trick. Definitely gonna use that. Really nice idea. Thanks, boys.

[@jackK5FIT]

I use a 17ft whip a good bit so the string with knots is a great idea, thanks! A couple of years ago I built a 20m dipole and 40m dipole for QRP and while playing around with them I put one leg up a vertical fiberglass pole and the other leg about 3 ft off the ground. I did a POTA with the 20m and tested both extensively so the concept works. It never occurred to me to try the whip. Thanks again!

[@temporarilyoffline]

This looks like an easier version of the buddy stuck pro. I like it!

[@BusDriverRFI]

A quick EZNEC simulation of this design shows us these things. 1. A perfect ground with a raised radial 4 feet raised gives us an impedance of ~35 +j0, so an SWR of 1.42 2. The same antenna over a mountainous rocky ground gives us an impedance of ~44 +j0, so an SWR of 1.13 3 The same antenna a few inches above the ground gives us an impedance of ~69 +j0, so an SWR of 1.38 We can see the ideal impedance at around 35 ohms. So with the raised radial, we only add 11 ohms as opposed to setting it on the ground where the resonance is drawn over 1MHz downward (which means it would need to be shortened) and 44 is 15 ohms better than 69 ohms. But anyway, that's why the SWR is so good. Just the right amount of ground losses. Jerry N9XR

[@BusDriverRFI]

Oh, and the TOA at 5 degrees with a real antenna on the ground should yield a -10.5dBi gain and the gain at the same TOA for the raised radial is ~7.5. An awesome 3dB gain.

[@davewhite7679]

Yes. The feedpoint impedance at resonance (0 reactance) is 35 ohms. So the VSWR at true resonance is NOT 1:1. But it's a little bit like an "off center fed dipole" too, in that adjusting the length of the radial impacts the feedpoint resistance. So the radial wire lengths for resonance (zero reactance) and 1:1 VSWR (50 ohm impedence) are not exactly the same. KZ9V

[@allenmcgee9379]

Wow yet another awesome ideal. I will have to try this one. Such a good thing to not have to use ground radials! Bravo to both of you for this well done video. Thank you for posting!

[@danielzdanowicz6899]

Great video... I use a similar concept... which is in essence the Buddistick. A vertical with a tunable elevated counterpoise. I have used the MFJ-1979 as the vertical radiator like you guys do in place of the coil loaded "stick". I mark the bands on the vertical with indelible marker. Just extend the vertical to the band mark. And for the counterpoise, I mark the band points with tape. I use a Buddipole radial which is teflon coated wire on a kite winder. It sets up as relatively as quick as yours does. You can fine tune the set up by tweaking the counterpoise in or out a bit if necessary due to the effects of surroundings on the antenna. The nice thing about your set up is that it is somewhat steerable with a little bit of gain in the direction of the counterpoise. To hold the end up off the ground... I use a K8MRD idea (I can't take the credit)... two three foot dowels tied together at the top with a zip tie a few inched from the top, and spread them out as two legs to support the end of the radial. Tilting the dowels back gives stability and you don't have to push anything into the ground. I agree with a line isolator! It is necessary to keep the CMCs off the coax. The great thing about your presentation is that it shows there are different way to do something. Hams like you guys have great ideas and sharing your knowledge and experiences like this is helpful to those who may want to do portable ops. Keep the videos coming. I love them! Best 73's Dan K1YPB - On the air since 1962.

[@Philip-KA4KOE]

Tuning an elevated radial isn't hard with a Stick Analyzer. Slope the end down a bit to raise the base impedance.

[@danimac3953]

That is correct! Good observation. Depending on height above ground… an elevated counterpoise at 90 degrees to the vertical radiator will offer a 25 to 32 ohm impedance at the feed point. Dropping down the counterpoise will raise the feed point impedance improving the match. Typically a 45 degree slant is considered optimal. The further it drops the more the antenna takes on the characteristics of a vertical dipole. Tweaking the counterpoise length in or out to find a “sweet spot” causes the antenna to resemble a bent off center fed dipole. In winding the counterpoise… the antenna doesn’t see the wound up wire as the winding takes on the characteristics of a choke.

[@mikeramsey9747]

Mike, I loved this video and will definitely be giving Daves elevated radial system a try. A better idea for holding his elevated radial would be an electric fence post which has a metal spike on the end to make it easier to stick into the ground.

[@yeahitsk]

Dave is a treasure, thanks for sharing him with us

[@davewhite7679]

I told my wife what you said. She's still laughing 🤣🤣🤣 KZ9V

[@petercimino8616]

Thanks for another great video. I would like to suggest an easier variant of the above. Go to Harbour Freight and buy one of their Pittsburgh 33ft tape measure. Grind off the paint at the 1 inch mark, drill a hole and add a screw, ring terminal to a 4" piece of wire to a big alligator clip which goes to the base of the antenna mount. Pull out the tape measure to the desired length and use as an elevated radial. Works great down to 20m. Add a WRC or shorty 40 and pull the tape measure out to 33ft for 40m. This is great because you can adjust the radial to get the shorty 40 tuned(since you usually cannot tune it longer) where you want it. You will get an OK SWR 1.5-1.7. If you add a second tape measure radial 180 degrees and shorten both to about 25ft then you will get 1:1 on 40m. Another option to get the swr down with a single radial on 40m is to use the buddipole TSRB at 2:1 or flip over for 1:2 depending on the height of the base of the antenna. Thnks for the video. Peter K1PCN

[@johnclark2849]

What do you use to support the spool end of the tape measure?

[@petercimino8616]

@@johnclark2849 Tractor Supply Electric fence stake

[@mikenester8868]

Thanks for the videos Michael, I watch them every week. You are the reason for my "addiction", but, seriously, thank you. I use almost this exact same setup (learned about it from one of our club members), with some slight differences, and I LOVE it. It WORKS!! I can't wait to try out the slight differences with your setup as compared to mine. Thanks again to you and Dave.

[@AI5HV]

Great video. I love the simplicity of the setup.

[@paultyler5989]

thanks for the Video, Can you and Dave do a follow up video on how he made the Linked Radial. Cool Idea. TIA.

[@hamradioexperience]

Sigh....now I have to build another antenna! No, seriously, thanks Michael and Dave! 73,

[@Scout75PortableRadio]

So much great info in one video! Thanks you Dave and Michael.

[@davewhite7679]

The data was gathered during 10 2-minute WSPR transmissions conducted during a 50 minute span at aprox. 11:30 am local time. With over 610 signal reports, the comparison data was extracted from 20 U.S. reporting stations plus Puerto Rico and Iceland. It would be difficult to display all those signal reports in a meaningful way. KZ9V

[@kc8opv]

You discovered my secret, Dave. Not really, but I built a linked vertical wire antenna with two tuned elevated radials for 20-15-10. I use my fiberglass mast to raise the feed point to about 10 feet above ground and the two radials slope down at about a 45 degree angle. I support the ends with plastic portable fence posts. On 10 watts SSB, I often get 59 reports and DX contacts while doing POTA. Loved your design and I might experiment with positioning the radials for directionality.

[@juliocesarpereira4325]

Always learn something new and practical by watching this video. Thanks!

[@MikeN2MAK]

After recently trying a friend's Buddistick Pro, I've been thinking about an elevated radial like this. Thanks for the great info and inspiration!

[@wshanney]

I built one as you described and it works very well. Thanks and 73....W6QR

[@gregmalonewa3gm680]

GREAT VIDEO CAN DAVE DO A SHORT VIDEO ON BUILDING THE LINKED RADIALS

[@TinyTJ04]

I like the string idea. I used an engraver to mark my antenna for the different bands, which worked well but isnt always the easiest to see.

[@RESlusher]

Thanks for sharing, Michael! I use a similar adaptation to my BuddiPole to help reduce my setup time. I put a bolt on the top of the "VersaTee" with two pieces of paracord with crimp-on fishing weights to mark the resonant points. One piece is red, for the red side and one black for the other! I think I'm gonna have to try this method on my next outing! 73 DE KF5RHI

[@oldgeekster1]

OBTW, loved the idea of the thin line and knots - please consider that one stolen too. 👍👍

[@billssimplepinedesign8878]

Thanks for the research Dave and Micheal for bringing it to us.

[@lumpycustard3433]

Just use a metal retractable tape measure and measure your counterpoise to the appropriate length. I use a plastic electric fence post to keep it elevated.

[@goodymb]

Have used a similar setup with my MPAS and a whip, great video.

[@edcnorcal]

Linked counterpoise?! Brilliant!!

[@wildbill1]

Great idea excellent video. Thanks for posting. I’m going to have to try this.!

[@mcmichaeltube]

Can’t wait to try this out

[@randyhavener1851]

WOW Thanks Michael & Dave! Very well done! 73 de N9RAN

[@kj7iaz]

Now you just need a couple caps for the pvc pipe, and you'll have a convenient storage case. Great set up, thanks for sharing.

[@davewhite7679]

I thought about that too, but the PVC pipe that I demonstrated was only a 1" diameter pipe. If your going to store things inside the pipe for transporting, I would recommend a little bigger diameter PVC pipe. KZ9V

[@kj7iaz]

@davewhite7679 yeah for sure. I have a loading coil built and tapped on a pvc form that long enough to hold a 17' whip. Pretty neat, but I found I don't use lower than 20 on portable, and if I do it switch to a wire antenna. I'll have to experiment with the elevated radial. I like the directionality of it.

[@thomasobert5261]

Well done. I’m going to make it.

[@donz7992]

Great video, and kudos to Dave's ingenuity. Q: Does this not in effect become an "L" dipole? Both legs are equal length and a choke helps eliminate the CM currents. The big advantage I think is the directionality of it.But be careful with those fiberglass rods...the ones I have to mark my yard and driveway in Minnesota winters like to leave little fiberglass splinters in my hands, lol! 🤣 And of course, I WILL need to try this now! POTA on, boys!

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

I’ll agree, once those fiberglass rods sit out for a winter, they get so brittle and splintery. I prefer to use plastic fence posts as they have ready made clips on them.

[@davewhite7679]

​@KB9VBRAntennas Agree. Age and ultraviolet sun light takes it's toll on those fiberglass rods, but they are cheap so I throw them away after 2 Wisconsin winters. KZ9V

[@paulsengupta971]

I've used bamboo sticks in the past. Cheap and last a while. The garden ones sometimes come pre sharpened to stick into the ground.

[@PopeBrak]

Your local godforsaken rock has some magnificent views. Many thanks for this video - lots of really good ideas!

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

It really is a beautiful place. That's why I keep coming back for POTA activations.

[@sparty837]

I wonder if for a home unit you could put out several radials and switch them in with relays to get the gain. Much easier than a phased array. Also a good solution for HOA.

[@johnkaelberer237]

A low cost version of the Buddy Stick. I've used the Buddy Stick with a 17' whip for years now with excellent results. This mirrors the B.S. The Buddy Stick or this set up is a very efficient compromised portable antenna.

[@mdouble100]

Excellent idea. Really simple and obviously effective. Well done and congratulations on finding this solution

[@coolspace2136]

What a great idea! I want to try this with ham sticks since I use those for all my POTA activations. Looks like it might work better than a ham stick with a mag mount on my van roof. Thanks for the great video!

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Putting a hamstick on a tripod with an elevated radial is an excellent option. I've heard many great reports from hams that have done that.

[@scottgarvy]

What a beautiful spot!

[@scottgarvy]

And great video. Some great ideas right there!

[@davewhite7679]

Yes it is. We were near the peak of Rib Mountain, which is about 700 ft above the surrounding terrain. The view to the north is pretty awesome, and it's probably the most popular winter ski resort in Wisconsin. KZ9V

[@jamespuckett6457]

That’s awesome!

[@REXOB9]

Great video. Thanks for showing step by step.

[@donausmus4281]

Doesn't look too bad there. At least you have soil and grass. I don't. I would have to get my Dewalt hammer drill out just to put up that pvc pole. The Chameleon reels also work . I use shrink wrap markers. This looks simpler, however.

[@firstreactor8983]

Thanks again both. Dave, could you show us map results from POTA and Whisper with this setup?

[@firstreactor8983]

Thank you both! Love the idea and implementation. Quick questions: a) Could we use two radials of the same length (180o apart) for 40m with the Wolf River Sporty 40? b) Can you recommend antenna analyzer software to model this?

[@davewhite7679]

Yes, longer tuned radials can be used effectively on the lower bands. Adding a 2nd elevated radial at 180 degrees will make the horizontal pattern more omni-directional. But the addition of more radials will require retuning the original radial lengths. It can quickly get pretty complicated for just a portable deployment. KZ9V KZ9V

[@Jiminico]

You have 4.6 db of gain in the direction of the 1 radial. What results did you have in the other directions?

[@davewhite7679]

6.2 db less signal in the reverse direction. KZ9V

[@Jiminico]

@@davewhite7679 I’m one of those guys that can’t keep it simple and would just have to experiment with a second tuned radial. If you do Dave, please do a follow up. Would love to learn your results.

[@thomascurrin]

@@Jiminico I tried that using the PREDator antenna design by KJ6ER. I didn't notice much difference in performance (no numbers) but I did have a harder time tuning. YMMV

[@fm71450]

Michael, as I am a fairly new Ham, it appears (to me) that this is a dipole antenna in an L-shape configuration. I wonder if, with 2 x 17’ whips, on the Chameleon “Cha Hub” they could be positioned at 90’ and “tuned” in a similar manner. As always, it is time well spent watching your videos. Thanks for sharing. KQ4IXD

[@davewhite7679]

Yes. KZ9V

[@paulsengupta971]

The issue with that is that these whips aren't meant to be horizontal and sag under their own weight. You could support the end.

[@ignatz-w1j]

Wow. Nice. Thank you.

[@marcinmichigan2772]

Nice video, much like the buddistick antenna concept - works well for me

[@angelscomputers]

I guess the great question here is: can he share the measurements of that adjustable magic radial? Before Chameleon makes it and charge $350 for it LOL. Thanks for the video!

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

The formula for a 1/4 wave radiator is: Length in feet = 234 / Frequency in Mhz. This will give you the dimensions for the whip and radial lengths on your preferred operating frequencies.

[@angelscomputers]

@@KB9VBRAntennas oh, so its the same like making a dipole, I thought because was elevated the formula was probably different. Thanks a lot my friend

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Some say you should shorten the radials by 5% from the 1/4 wave formula, but this will get you really close to where you need to be.

[@angelscomputers]

@@KB9VBRAntennas I think because its so easy using jumpers I probably will add links with that 5% shorten radials and see how it goes. Thanks my friend

[@bishbash6547]

Amazing... Nice Job... 73 kb8sgs.....Doug...

[@ericlevine420]

excellent

[@toybuns775]

I wish I could use spikes in N Texas but the ground here is hard clay. I would need a couple of tripods. Great video, thanks for sharing. I still havent tried the magic carpet yet

[@__JAG__]

Great video.

[@1polonium210]

This would probably be very effective in areas of Central Texas and West Texas where there is extensive limestone (nonconductive) substrate.

[@Relayer1974]

This is a very cool setup, but not at all what I want to deploy instead of a window screen or Farady cloth. I don't use a ground-level counterpoise for performance. I use it for convenience.

[@kennygraves489]

Really struggling with vertical setup. Are verticals usually 1/4 wave? Is the formula still 462÷frequency= length in feet for a dipole? Meaning a vertical for 20m ssb should be roughly 16' 2".

[@mcarroll5885]

That's L = 468/freq

[@kylefreemason]

How can the linked radial work when the insulators keep the links separated?

[@fotografm]

I guess the direction of maximum radiation you mentioned is in the direction that the radial is pointing right ?

[@revbikerbigd8664]

Whip string and counterpoise measurements please????

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

The formula for a 1/4 wave radiator is: Length in feet = 234 / Frequency in Mhz. This will give you the dimensions for the whip and radial lengths on your preferred operating frequencies.

[@seanfoley7097]

I just got mine built haven't tested it yet though

[@daveN2MXX]

7:45 thanks for the excellent video! The question: is 4.6dB improvement (a little more than half of an S-unit) worth the effort and time to elevate the radiating element and assemble the elevated counterpoise? Maybe it is....maybe it isn't. If the physical ground in this area is actually a very poor ground, then maybe it is worth the effort. It's always good to have options!

[@davewhite7679]

4.6 db basically triples your RF output simply by eliminating ground losses. Turning your 5-watt QRP radio into a 15-watt rig can make quite a difference on some days. KZ9V

[@daveN2MXX]

​@davewhite7679 I am pointing out that "tripling your power" might not make as dramatic of an improvement as it sounds.

[@robertvantichelt6448]

One radial has a directional effect. Strongest signal towards the radial. Might help you hear better also

[@forgetyourlife]

1/2 an S-unit is a lot. Not everyone responds to weak signals. You can often be ignored since you may just drop into the noise at any moment with band fluctuations making the QSO more work and repeating yourself necessary.

[@JayN4GO]

@@davewhite7679basically a 1/2wave dipole in the L plane. Beats the 1/4w vertical everytime

[@truckinguy92]

WSPR is digital, digital skews results in my opinion. Just because a digital signal reaches somewhere, definitely doesn’t mean a SSB signal will reach the same place, & probably not a CW signal either. Although it may be more likely for a CW signal. I think a better method would be a CW test message then look at the RBN to see where your CW signal is heard.

[@davewhite7679]

It's not about where or how far away the signal is received, It's about how strong the signal report is for each transmission compared to the other transmissions with my different test antennas being the only variable. During a 54 minute time span I made 4 transmissions with just the elevated radial pointed east, 3 transmissions with just the elevated radial pointed west, and 3 transmissions with just a "Magic Carpet" Faraday cloth ground plane. With over 600 signal reports I was able to extract direct comparison data from 22 stations that reported numbers on nearly all 10 of the WSPR transmissions. I'm very confident in the results. KZ9V

[@truckinguy92]

@@davewhite7679 I just did the same thing yesterday using CW test messages generated from the memory keyer on my KX3. It was to test where my new Chameleon MPAS 2.0 was being heard. I did so for 5 minutes on each band and was fascinated with the results using the reverse beacon network.

[@mgwaala]

Thanks for the product links! The clamp is out of stock already, dangit. :) very cool setup!

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Hopefully they will be back in stock soon.

[@lawrencethompson465]

You can find these clamps quite readily at truck stops.

[@axi6ne8us]

How do you increase the performance of the magic carpet indoors?

[@HayesSalley]

With respect to the tuned radial, do the alligator clips have to make contact with bare wire in the adjacent section or is just clipping it to the insulation adequate? I can’t tell when watching the video. Thanks for this video BTW! I am planning to trying this elevated vertical as soon as I can.

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Yes they do. You need electrical continuity to utilize the radial element.

[@HayesSalley]

I wonder if using a steel fence post mount to elevate the antenna would detract from the performance? I see Dave used a piece of PVC pipe for that purpose and was curious to know if that was to insulate it from the ground for lower loss? Great video as are all of them. I have learned a lot watching your channel.

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Using a metal post will, not always, but can affect the performance. Most notably it would diminish the directivity that a single elevated radial is exhibiting. If you decouple the antenna from the ground, by using the plastic mast, you are assured that the elevated radial is the counterpoise and that no other parts of the earth are working as part of the ground system.

[@HayesSalley]

@@KB9VBRAntennas Many thanks! It makes sense.

[@mcarroll5885]

A metal rod or post as a support under the vertical will have very little detrimental effect so long as it makes no connection to the radial system or to the vertical.

[@Sagart999]

Exposing more of my ignorance re: antenna design…. Dave did not specify the gauge of the wire he used for the radial. What do you recommend, and why?

[@davewhite7679]

The radial wire gauge is not critical. Use whatever you have. I keep a nice assortment of stranded 18 gauge colors on hand for these antenna projects. It's a reasonable compromise of strength vs: weight. But any wire gauge will do. KZ9V

[@pieterdutoit9642]

Hi all good do give some length of the radial would be nice 17 ft - next down thanks ,pieter

[@johnaloisr.2239]

Great video guys. I learned a lot and want to try the elevated radials. I know the 20M radial is 17ft overall, but what are the lengths for the jumpers for the other bands?

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

You can use the formula Frequency in MHz / 234= length in feet. This is the formula for a 1/4 wave radiator (or counterpoise for that matter).

[@davewhite7679]

​@@KB9VBRAntennasI used that formula to adjust the vertical whip, but constructing the tuned radial links required a bit of trial and error to reach the perfect length for each band. KZ9V

[@aces_ten]

Great video! But for less than one S-unit difference, I'll stick with the Faraday cloth

[@davewhite7679]

The Magic Carpet ground plane is amazing. This is just a pretty simple way to triple the RF efficiency of your portable vertical antenna. KZ9V

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

I've also had great results with the faraday cloth or window screen over a wide variety of ground situations. The advantage of the elevated radials is you can squeeze a little more efficiency out of your antenna system, which may make or break a portable QRP operation.

[@mobiltec]

HI Guys, Technician class starting to work for general. I'm taking it that according to the calcs I have done that we just cut all measurements in half here for 10 meters? I'd like to try this system out. And also, I've heard that salt water nearby makes for a great ground plane. (K4OGO) What would you think about a dry lakebed of salt? What about a place like Mono Lake in CA? Or Salton Sea in the same state? Or even the Salt Flats in Utah?

[@paulsengupta971]

Try them! Would like to see videos of the results.

[@shanerorko8076]

So its a dipole with one half running above the ground. I'm about to buy a Sirrio 2016, with a tuner it'll tune 40m to 10m. Use a short run of hyperflex 10 coax and it's all you need, no stuffing around with radials and coils.

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

The formula for a 1/4 wave vertical radiator is: Length in Feet = 234 / Frequency in MHz. This will give you the dimensions necessary for the whip and radial lengths dependent on your preferred operating frequency.

[@NEWTralizator]

Thanks for the vid. I would like to ask you also to mention metric lengths, if its possible.

[@Eugen963]

Brilliant and simple. I use efhw 49:1 over a branch, I see several nice branches in the background that would do

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Keep watching, in the video coming out this Wednesday, I do just that.

[@KO4L_Lloyd]

This is so easy to do. Now, what it that tower behind you?

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

It's a snow gun. In the winter this area becomes a ski hill.

[@briantrask8173]

Great demonstration! Using 1 radial does that make it somewhat directional where 2 radials 180 degrees apart would be omnidirectional?

[@davewhite7679]

Yes. KZ9V

[@paulsengupta971]

You'd usually use four to be omnidirectional.

[@ClayExtrudingExpert]

Michael and Dave: Can I get similar isolation by bundling 6 coils of coax at 4" in diameter into the feedline? Dave's isolator is around $80US and way beyond my POTA antenna budget.

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

You can do that, for HF frequencies you will probably need more than 6 turns, though. I'm guessing at least 10 or 12 for it to be effective. I'll let you in on a secret, though. The MFJ line isolator is nothing more than a series of snap on ferrites housed in a PVC shell. They used to be cheap before MFJ went out of business, now the price is sky high. But you can make your own. Order these ferrites from Palomar Engineers and use a piece of heat shrink to hold them in place near the feed point end of your coax: palomar-engineers.com/rfiemi-solutions/Snap-On-RF-Choke-Isolator-1-4-6mm-cable-RG-58-59-06-LMR240-3-300-MHz-5-10-15-Bead-Option-p74532989

[@ClayExtrudingExpert]

MM. This is why you're so valuable to the amateur radio community and to me,, personally. Thanks for your quick response. -- Daryl

[@DaveSimonson-f2i]

Michael, thank you for another informative video! I was wondering what effect, if any, the gauge of the wire used for the radials would have? I have some 18 gauge wire that I used for making ground radials for several ground mounted verticals (6BTV, Chameleon 17' whip, and the MP1 Super Antenna. Is a heavier gauge advantageous in any way? 73 KB9ITV

[@davewhite7679]

No advantage unless you're running high power. Supporting the elevated radial out in the field is a challenge. Using heavier wire would make that task even more difficult. KZ9V

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

In a rough sense, wire gauge will affect the bandwidth of the antenna. Thicker wire, more bandwidth. But to have meaningful gains in bandwidth, you need to use pretty thick wire. For the most part, any wire between 14 and 22 gauge will have equivalent results.

[@scottgarvy]

Do you know a source for an adapter for 3/8 x 24 to the M10?

[@paratusllc3086]

Where do I find details to build this antenna?

[@bob-N4REE]

What are the measurements for the radial links?

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

The formula for a 1/4 wave radiator is: Length in feet = 234 / Frequency in Mhz. This will give you the dimensions for the whip and radial lengths on your preferred operating frequencies.

[@bob-N4REE]

@@KB9VBRAntennas Yes, but... Formula Shormula. It never works out that way in real life. I was curious about the individual link lengths ,,, but will use my own NanoVNA to figure it out. - Interesting antenna, THANKS!

[@keithhawkins4641]

Is the wire 17 feet and then made longer with the insulators or is it 17 feet counting the insulators?

[@davewhite7679]

In its longest configuration (20 meters), the 17 ft radial includes all of the linked insulators. KZ9V

[@jefft2553]

Hardware stores sale “ electric fence post” for $3.50. It has a metal spike on the bottom with a foot rest to push it into the ground. Probably work better than that although the rest of your ideas fantastic.

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Myself, I prefer the plastic fence posts over the driveway markers as they have clips built in to hold the wire.

[@TheMicrofox]

With only one elevated radial your vertical won't be omnidirectional any more, rather directional towards the radial. Correct? If that isn't intentional one could use three of them.

[@davewhite7679]

Yes! In my WSPR field testing, the front-to-back directivity turned out to be almost 6.2 db in the direction of the single elevated tuned radial. Adding a 2nd tuned radial in the opposite direction would make it more omnidirectional, but the multi-band elevated radial tuning and deployment would get significantly more complicated. KZ9V KZ9V

[@andyM7XTT]

I take it if you wanted the same idea for 40m (with a coil) youd just double the radial length to 34ft??? Great video ,thankyou 👍👍

[@robertvantichelt6448]

Yes, would work

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Yes you could. I would probably run just a 34 foot piece of wire for 40 meters to keep the overall radial package more compact.

[@thuff3207]

Looks like you made a buddistick but cheaper. Yes they work well. Like do like your idea of clips for each band.

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Similar in concept to the Buddistick, except we are using the 17 foot whip as a 1/4 wave radiator and there are no taps or loading coils in play.

[@dennisjoiner3717]

Someone has likely asked this already, but is the max gain in the direction of the elevated radial?

[@davewhite7679]

Yes. In the direction of the single elevated radial. KZ9V

[@tracyrreed]

Why do elevated radials have to be tuned whereas radials on the ground do not?

[@KB9VBRAntennas]

Laying the radials on the ground detunes them, so length is much less of an issue. At that point you would want to add more and more radials to counteract ground losses. Elevating the radials decouples them from the ground and they act more like tuned elements. This article will tell you more about the difference between the two: rudys.typepad.com/files/qst-march-2010-ground-systems.pdf

[@StreakyP]

For " no-tune" qsy between 20, 15 & 10 you could also use the ribbon fan dipole g4bue/g4xnp described in the gqrp antenna handbook (deployed as an L like you have.... & The rig's atu should bring in 12 & 17) or to make it Omni just run the whole thing vertical on a 10m pole and bring the feed off the centre & run it elevated to the operating position & this also removes any trip hazards

[@dwightkellams6065]

I need to understand the directionally effect. Would a second tuned radial make it omnidirectional?

[@davewhite7679]

If the 2nd tuned elevated radial was 180 degrees opposite the 1st radial, yes. KZ9V

[@HamAround23]

Is the gain in the direction the radial is pointing or more brodside or 180° from the radial

[@davewhite7679]

In the direction that the radial is pointing KZ9V