Logos from the past: London's Borough Councils

[@jasont9294]

Twinnings?

[@LinusBoman]

Ha! I was wondering when somebody would call me out on the mispronunciation. To be fair I'm a PG Tips man. Actually, I'm an espresso man, but I should have double checked the pronunciation before I recorded the video!

[@Richardincancale]

Oddly that’s how it’s pronounced in France where it’s considered a somewhat premium brand (!)

[@highpath4776]

Town Twinnings ?

[@elFulberto]

Wait, so which way is it pronounced?

[@jasont9294]

@@elFulberto kzbin.info/www/bejne/m565Y6WMm9iaiqc

[@Samtember]

Some of these old ones look soo good. That Westminster one is so distinctive and authoritative and that lightning bolt one is *chefs kiss* I don't live anywhere near London but I imlore you to submit your designs.

[@Yossus]

Wow seeing that Westminster shield disappear actually hurt Edit: the Haringey lightning circle looked a bit like a black sun rune symbol, maybe that's why it's not around as much either?

[@LinusBoman]

Oh, I had never seen that particular symbol before - yes it's unfortunate that fascists take such an interest in strong graphic symbols! 😕

[@dog-ez2nu]

IT CAN BE RECLAIMED. maybe ditching the black background?

[@Movedaccountlol]

Damn Nazis ruining everything.

[@Reddsoldier]

@@dog-ez2nu Most of the council materials I've seen from Haringey from the period used the logo with no background.. Also while on the topic, the local paper, the Haringey Star used the council logo in reverse which looked really nice. Their news logo was solid yellow with a lightning sun cut out. It would actually be a very proactive move to reclaim similar symbology to fascists into popular culture since it makes the usage of such symbols as dogwhistles harder and harder. Though yes there's the initial question as whether this is a good idea to have similar or associated imagery in the first place, but as someone whose studied this stuff as part of a masters thesis, one of the most successful ways to combat fascism is to deny them their own spaces and identities. That extends onto symbology imo. Obviously I think it'd be too much for us to rehabilitate the totenkopf or the celtic sun or the swastika, but the more fringe ones they tend to hide behind in public are a prime target, especially ones with nice graphic design associated with similar images. Personally I think it'd be hilarious to interpret nazis trying to mask their message of hate with a lightning sun as just being really into representing one of the most diverse boroughs in London.

[@kathrynmiller4240]

Linus Boman the lightning flash has got particularly strong fascist associations in the UK because it was the flag of the British Union of Fascists led by Oswald Mosley

[@dog-ez2nu]

Haringey's old logo looks like the kind of logo you would see used by a particularly *sus* political organisation. But I cannot deny that it looks straight-up metal and needs a comeback.

[@LieseFury]

yeah it looks worryingly close to the neo-nazi "black sun" icon which is probably why they canned it

[@Espen.Johannesen]

That red abomination looks like a childrens tree hut. Or the logflume in a cheap theme park.

[@MatiProbably]

I was just about to comment that it looks like the SS symbol

[@ExperimentIV]

it’s beautiful and i see how it’s evocative of the fact that the first bbc broadcasts at alexandra palace are there. nowadays, yeah, anyone with any knowledge of how certain logos would be received by people with kneejerk reactions. it’s truly a shame that white supremacists have ruined so many cool logos with lightning bolts in them (like the old Televerket logo, though that one was a victim of the Swedish national telephone service being privatised, not a fear that it could look, uh, Fashy.)

[@acasualcactus5878]

At least it’s not bound up in… red tape.

[@Ice_Karma]

7:10 The "Hammersmith & Fulham" logo reminds me of Canadian DIY chain Home Hardware's logo.

[@julesfenn4313]

9:09 😂 cheeky Enfield. That in itself would have won it best logo for me, but again, I know nothing about graphic design. Love watching your videos though, and thank you for sharing your resources, I'm definitely going to check that second website out! ✨

[@Nathan_A_RF]

It'd be interesting to see your views on road signs, either just in the UK or the whole of Europe where there are a wide range of colours, pictograms and typefaces, but also a lot of overlap between countries.

[@darvidani2]

Another great video! For the future: what about railway company logos across countries? Or logos of national postal operators across Europe? Airlines?

[@LinusBoman]

Thanks Darvas! Those are all great suggestions - I really like the idea of postal operators particularly - there's some great ones out there! Definitely planning some rail/transport related videos in the future too! :)

[@S404_44]

@@LinusBoman [if you need an overview of what rail operators there are (it's actually quite complicated) feel free to ask your community/me :)]

[@qwertyTRiG]

@@LinusBoman An Post in Ireland has a lovely logo based on franking marks. (If you do mention this, get a pronunciation guide: those are not English words.)

[@S404_44]

Great video! :) Hounslow's old logo reminds me of the Swedish Dagen H logo, Dagen H being the day when they switched to right-hand road traffic

[@LinusBoman]

I wouldn't have connected those two, but that makes much more sense for Dagen H! Also I will be sure to take you up on the offer for help with train companies - that would be greatly appreciated! 😁

[@skillganon606]

I'm here because of Graham Stark, I can't figure out why I keep watching these but I've now hit the sub button. Well done.

[@FernandsLiveShowShow]

Aaah - answered most of my thoughts and nerdings from the previous video! Superb stuff - and that "squish it / skew it / turn it all around" idea is so accurate in poor design revamps 🤣

[@dillanmcdonald940]

As an American viewer who wondered over, I think it'd be interesting to see you rank university crests/logos! Also I love your videos, great production value!

[@RobinKoenig1917]

Another great video! It's great seeing what works (and what really doesnt) and why. The logo for Haringay reminds me of the logo for the far right Russian organisation the Eurasian Youth Movement, which is another depressing example of fascist monsters being quite good at design. I thought about suggesting that you do an episode about the logos of political parties, but that might be somewhat of a minefield...

[@LinusBoman]

Ha! Yes, it's unforutunate that fascists have such a penchant for solid graphic design! I think political logos are indeed very interesting, but yeah, there are a few areas I think would be best left undisturbed while there is safer but equally interesting areas to be explored. :)

[@RobinKoenig1917]

@@LinusBoman I agree, best left alone. Someone else mentioned Postal services logos, and agree with them that that would make for an interesting video down the line, and I'm also looking forward to your video on Microsofts fonts. :)

[@gudebro2000]

So interesting. I live in the US and do not work in any type of design and this was still captivating

[@LinusBoman]

Thank you kindly, I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. :)

[@johnberry3824]

Hmm...your own logo, or at least title on this video, looked to me at first like it said "Linny on Logos." Hmm. Other than that, it's no surprise that your own typography on both videos is excellent. Thanks for having fun - and giving the rest of us some, too. (NB: Not a Londoner, not even a Brit. As an American, albeit one with plenty of friends in London, I enjoyed this.)

[@LinusBoman]

Thanks John - glad you're enjoying the videos! Agree, I've gradually been iterating on the opening title - I purposefully have avoided spending too much time on channel branding as, for me, it's easy to sink too much time on it to the detriment of making actual content! I've decided I'm fine with it being less-than-perfect, and I can iteratively improve it as time goes on. But yes, I might need to shorten that "s" for sure. :)

[@tasty_fish]

I absolutely love these videos. Would love to see one on other authorities around the UK where design budgets are even smaller

[@khazermashkes2316]

Thank your for making this! It makes me sad that so many switched to worse logos.

[@gudebro2000]

You forgot to mention the SS connection with that electric shield. It’s wise to avoid ⚡️ bolts

[@LinusBoman]

Ah yes, fascists ruining graphic motifs for the rest of us as usual!

[@lisilva9606]

It's a real shame because I love the logo with the thunderbolt, but my mind did instantly go to the Black Sun and SS thunderbolt. The historical context makes the logo quite beautiful. Such a shame.

[@magnushmann]

Nice og you to just _let them_ have it like that, instead of just using it anyway and thereby weakening that connection. It's quite a basic shape to in any orientation an variation have reserved for something most people even agree shouldn't exactly be honoured or respected.

[@hmcnally]

Excellent StrongBad reference. Related: "Once again, your visual style just looks thrown together. It looks like you don't care."

[@antrim7008]

Very high quality videos. You’re gonna blow up soon.

[@LinusBoman]

Thank you, too kind!

[@ErwinPommel]

Bomb threat?

[@jojosumit7690]

Love the strong bad reference. Chef kiss perfect.

[@charlienewbold9809]

Haringey Borough FC (a non-league football team) still have the original Haringey Logo as part of the club crest, which is the Haringey coat of Arms. As a Haringey fan (and resident) I own a fair bit of merch with the logo on!

[@hanna-liminal]

Hello, I realise this video is quite old now but as a Berlin resident it did fill me with wild joy to see your approval of our Brandenburg Gate logo! So that's got me wondering ... maybe brand/logo design of capital cities around the world It would be fascinating to see what similarities and differences crop up even in just Europe, re: coats of arms and font usage and the like. (Though considering the importance of the alphabet script used, maybe just Latin-alphabet-using designs could be a valuable narrowing of the scope)

[@marilynquilts]

Just found you and I’m fascinated! My daughter is a graphic designer in San Diego so I love your take!

[@AmericasComic]

2:26 There's something about those 1970's corporate logos that use broad, wide, sheared geographic figures with sharp edges (like, the Chase logo that's still in use, and the one you talk about in this article. I tried finding more, but not a lot of the logos survived past the 1970's) that I like, but they also feel really fashy at the same time, like they'd fit in Mussolini's PNF headquarters. By the time you get to the 1980's, movies were parodying this logo type, with the evil corporations in Aliens, Robocop, and Terminator are all modeled on that type. Trump also used this style of logo in the 1970's when the dad was still in charge. And I don't think that look is _inherently_ evil, I think it probably was just what looked good on a letterhead with the printers at the time, and so it became popular with banks, insurance providers and developers and so we started to associate it with the people who will take your house. At the same time, there's something kind of ominous about an aesthetic that is basically rearranging little black razorblades.

[@MoliSuper]

I love your videos on logos and type! How about a video on Olympic logos? Ranking them and stuff? :)

[@axm601]

Well, now the Battersea power station in Wandsworth logo is obvious now, but I've never noticed until now

[@LinusBoman]

Glad I wasn't the only one who missed it!

[@distortingjack]

@@LinusBoman I think the Battersea outline is super obvious and very iconic, probably in my top 5 most recognisable buildings in London. Maybe because I love Pink Floyd and the Animals cover features it in exactly that angle, but I think I'm not the only one. I think featuring it by itself, instead of as a tiny far-away element in a much busier design with mostly empty space and nothing else of note (nobody cares about St. Mary's church, come on) would make it super punchy 🤷‍♂

[@JohnCorrUK]

Excellent video Linus 👍

[@ciclon5682]

everybody gangsta till the hentai animation company displays the royal crest

[@KrayGuru]

If it helps LBBD (London Borough of Barking and Dagenham) has changed their logo :) I work there and have recently had to amend lots of letter templates for the new logo. Not sure if they saw your video haha

[@Tesswrench111]

Haringey's old logo looks like something the far right might want to appropriate, especially in the form of an enamel pin shield

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

that's exactly why they changed it

[@HH-qm2gc]

The Walford logo looks a bit like Barking and Dagenham and a bit like Newham. I wonder if that was intentional. They are sort of the areas of Eastenders.

[@AroundTheBlockAgain]

The Brothers Chaps were right on the money with that SBEmail response 😂 Those were the days... swooshes, logos flipped-turn-ways, and SBEmails...

[@josebabilbao7759]

Interesting and enjoyable video again. I don't know if you remember but I'm the guy that requested the football club logos. You said that youd like to have another person in the video that was into football. I recently found a channel called Tom the Fusician who does football songs and discussions with a similar subscriber count to you. I reckon that if you get in touch with him he might help you with that. Anyway nice video. I'm really enjoying your content

[@LinusBoman]

Hey Joseba! Thank you - of course I remember you - hehe, you're quite persistent! That's a great suggestion with Tom's channel, I'll definitely look into it. :)

[@stevenjlovelace]

I much prefer British/European coats of arms to the heraldry we have here in the US. A lot of government entities here have seals that are way to detailed to be effective in communicating anything distinctive. Just look at our state flags. About half of them are seals/crests on a "blue bedsheet". About a third of our flags are pretty nice though. I like New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and Texas in particular. As for Maryland, it's distinctive but polarizing.

[@JunafaniFIN]

The Croydon's 80's logo is beautiful. It screams 80's straight to your face.

[@samdog166]

I hope Jago Hazzard has seen this

[@highpath4776]

Merton had to change - there must be an intermediary one , as it got smashed in with wimbledon and morden councils. Of course the alternate of Merton, spinning round and round in circles is indeed more apt.

[@LinusBoman]

Looks like the yellow fret on a black field appears in the Wimbledon coat of arms too, I think it could have made the basis of a strong graphic symbol. But certainly re: current logos, Merton spinning in circles might tie with Haringey's logo made of red tape for ironic imagery!

[@tourmaline07]

I love the "services well worth defending" strapline that Lambeth had - in the days of government cutbacks and councils going into Section 114 I dare any graphics designer to put that into a council rebranding ;)

[@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug]

I don't understand why British heraldry use the full achievement so much for logos etc. Just the shield would usually suffice and be much more suitable as a modern logo; look at the counties and municipality coats of arms of Norway (I'm biased since I'm from Norway) or Sweden. Almost all of these use just a shield with a two or three colour design, and a few uses a minimal crest on top of the shield (usually a fortress reminiscent of a crown, that I assume is symbolising that it's a city)

[@qwertyTRiG]

I don't think Linus here knows anything about heraldry. He keeps on referring to the whole achievement as a "crest".

[@qwertyTRiG]

That said, you're right. The estuchion alone would generally make a better logo.

[@mildlycornfield]

It's been Eggy Bread in our house, bread soaked in beaten egg and fried - entirely savoury and usually served under sausage and baked beans. Although, we also invented Cinnabon French Toast the other week, which was an unbelievably decadent breakfast

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

This was a comment for Max Miller, right? lol. Wrong channel, hun.

[@sideswipebl]

You should look at Japanese prefecture logos next.

[@saltyroe3179]

In the USA we do have heraldic symbology. Some is inherited from before we broke away from the UK (example Maryland's flag). The state seals try to follow good heraldic rules but often get too busy (California has a wonderful flag, but the seal is too busy). Great use is in our Interstate signs which are shields, as well as US route signs. California has what looks like an upside-down shield but is actually shovel blade (if the route sign is on a single pole you can cut it off and actually use it for digging, except the Highway Patrol will probably show up with their too busy haroldry) British might like the seal of Pasadena, California, except that it is a Spanish Crown.

[@Fitzsimmons.]

The Lambeth current logo is eerily similar to the Victoria, BC, Canada city logo. In your Australian video the Victoria logo is also seemingly the same font as the University of Victoria in BC logo

[@rajavlitra]

I feel like politics also informs the design choices of some of these boroughs. The ones that use crests like Westminster are Tory areas, right?

[@SeanMacadelic]

No

[@konkey-dong]

Not all - Islington was Corbyn's constituency for example

[@MoonSafariFilms]

8:44 All the old ones look like early 90s indie comic book publisher logos

[@nigelogilvie9450]

Very interesting. I'm surprised that in the 21st century a heraldic coat of arms is still relevant, though ... And I did suspect that you had failed to identify Battersea Power Station in the previous league table video. Nice explanations though, thank you,

[@highpath4776]

Newham's new town hall was also a Ziggart at the grove, stratford, which looked much like the N

[@alexandervanhal]

Please do the Dutch government branding

[@56independent]

0:33 I live in the UK. But I am on holiday in Catalonia. That is how I got here.

[@bulbasaur001]

The crests, if they’re not distinct enough, sort of feel like the state seals of the U.S. states or cities. Sure you can slap them on signs or flags and whatnot, but they’re not going to be super legible or pretty

[@AmeriqueEtAngleterre]

I wonder what your thoughts are on the old paper chain Southwark logo. I see it all the time on bins (that are probably older than me) and it kind of creeps me out. If it's supposed to symbolise community it is doing it very poorly...

[@sashakimknechtinruprecht]

If you are interested in more council logos - try the dutch ones: There is a great variety of often imo very outstanding designs

[@shift-happens]

1:30 So confused why the text is in French. What's the explanation for that? High class wanting to sound posh?

[@saulemaroussault6343]

Would you be interested in making a similar video about regional logos ? Be it tourism or government. I really like the format, it’s instructive and fun and nerdy, and it makes me want to travel again.

[@ExperimentIV]

damn, i really wanna see you rank saul bass logos now

[@CheshireSwift]

The Hounslow one looks like one of those plastic ice packs. I'm not mad about it, it's just funny.

[@highpath4776]

I think the Westminster one was meant to depict the town hall tower block in victoria street

[@sta1nless]

Is a borough the same as a municipality?

[@Simlan12345]

You should take a look at the province shields of Sweden or Finland.

[@johnboulton1109]

Some of the old logos looked great! How could so many of them got their rebrands so wrong! Ha ha

[@ErwinPommel]

Because these days everyone who's watched a few youtube videos and read an article about colour theory thinks they're a graphic designer.

[@matthias8122]

The 2001 Haringey wheel is basically Ye Olde Swishe.

[@raphaelnikolaus0486]

How I got here? Well, lastly I watched a quite recent video on the British Rail design evolution. But in general I am a subscriber of Jay Foreman who by now has made several videos on Greater London and its boroughs (and their logos too).

[@mayaan773]

the old Islington logo looks like a patch a crust punk would sew on their jean jacket

[@harrytodhunter5078]

Newhams old N was stunning to me! Absolutely massacred the logo with the redesign. Oh and that old Enfield one would look great on some oversized electronic appliance.

[@kimpossibleyescruelladevil4960]

3:33 could you send me the link to this gif

[@EdwinWalkerProfile]

The Lambeth logo looks very construction to me, quite like Amey and BAM Nuttall.

[@francomartini4328]

My vote for worst London borough logo is Enfield (where I live). Not the one that you show in this video but the one that the borough has used for about the last thirty years. The borough is divided into distinct areas, the western and northern parts being very posh with high property values being inhabited by solicitors, accountants and estate agents, and the eastern and southern parts being industrialised with street after street of early 20th century terraced houses and in Edmonton, sixties brutalist hi-rises. That the borough should chose the outline of the very hi-rises of Edmonton Green where they "lock up" their poorest residents as their logo feels like a piss take.

[@abehme]

To me as a german the old haringey logo is cringy cause it looks a lot like a symbol the nazis would have used. Like yeah its well designed but I wouldnt want a logo for my city witch feels like the new redesign for the SS. Maybe a bit harsh but thats what it looks like to me.

[@macademician]

Oh, the Royal Kingston reveal HURT. The predecessor was SO MUCH STRONGER. YIKES.

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

I got here from Rob Words, who recommended you.

[@Butlinsgvn6]

Can someone please explain pun at 9:08?

[@rooneye]

5:08 Imagine that being a New York district logo redesign after 9/11. Now THAT would be bad. Or worse yet brought out RIGHT BEFORE 9/11😳I think the logo designer would need security🤣🤣

[@LondonTransportGuy]

You forgot the London Borough of Canley, from The Bill!

[@LinusBoman]

Ha, good catch! I think it's clip-arty tree logo ranks somewhere between Ealing and Sutton. :P

[@LondonTransportGuy]

Yeah, not that bad, nothing special though. I have even created my own London Borough, with a crap logo, of course!

[@BenjaminAbrahamNYC]

Why would someone give up a lighting bolt logo that is so obviously cool? British graphic design from the 50 and 60s were quite enduring reflecting both heritage as well as progress in post-war Britain.

[@generalgrafx]

So in the 60’s and 70’s they hired real graphic designers, while nowadays they let civil servants “design” the borough logos.

[@stefansoder6903]

That's desktop publishing!

[@generalgrafx]

@@stefansoder6903 Word-art.

[@tactical1981]

I love Croydon’s 90s logo

[@elixirix]

could you do one of the premier league teams? Newcastle United have a lion with an illegible face..needs updating.

[@arghjayem]

What do think of my logo?

[@ejonesss]

the haringey council modern logo looks more like nvidia's logo. no not an abstract eye but the inversion of the halves and in different colors google nvidia logo and you will see. although nvidia logo is different enough that there is no violation but it borrows from that styling

[@forthrightgambitia1032]

The old Haringey logo reminds me of the 1980s BBC News ident, which in its own way was just epic compared to the insipid swill we have now.

[@joewilliams5057]

This is just the right level of nerdery for me 😁 I'm over it now, but way back in the late 90s / early 2000s I was involved in some web design. Don't judge me man, everyone was doing it. Anyway, if the wayback machine still has these horrors available, would you take some viewer submissions?

[@LinusBoman]

So glad I'm in that goldilocks nerd zone! Old web design could be a great topic for a video - I have a few skeletons on the wayback machine myself. It could be good for a 1000 or 10,000 subscriber milestone video maybe? :)

[@glassowlie]

Merton rebranded to two shapes, forming an 'M'.

[@rooneye]

7:13 I fucking LOVE that! 9:07 That Enfield one I also really like. But 8:42 is HORRIBLY generic af fucking shite IMO

[@greenhound]

90s croydon looking like a hardware company

[@xx4095]

5:32 looks like a Waffen-SS Division Insignia

[@LinusBoman]

20th century fascists had all the strongest graphic symbols. But maybe the fact that the association lingers shows designers haven't done enough to reclaim them. Lightning bolts pre-date the SS after all!

[@MrPsychomonkey]

a lot of these are great, iconic shame to seem them replaced with less character. I guessing now councils go for a redesign they are stuck as the firstly they can't justify spending much on updates and that these logos have been plastered everywhere.

[@Guilfordust]

Do Bauhaus!!

[@swanstarr1441]

you should do a political pparty logo video, you could even make it a series, going around the world

[@chrisamies2141]

Kingston lost the plot as a borough around 2014 IMHO. Changing the simple, scalable logo for the current mess was just part of it. Took me until this year to finally move out.

[@RaphH_]

The two tone electric logo is not calm or respectable enough identity for a council. It says to me "We'll electrocute you, and the binmen won't come on tuesday!" and is uncomfortably reminiscent of fascist iconography. Still, just my two cents (pennies...)

[@anonUK]

"Zer binmen vill be followink zer orders!"

[@BL00DeMoN]

the lightning logo is really cool, but I think it invoke a bit of a fascistic vibe from it this logo will work grate in some war-hammer 40k unit crest, not in the government

[@JayNewberyy]

(hmm that original Haringey logo looks neo-nazi-ish to my eye, that would be my reason to retire it)

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

The reason given for ditching the old Haringey lightning logo was that it smelled too much of the old Nazi SS symbol - and I can see that, and swastikas. The examples you give of possible logos for Haringey have the same resonance. When the new Haringey logo was launched in 2015, there was a mighty furore locally. It cost £90,000 of public money aand was seen as an atrocious mess. I think they were going for something reminiscent of graffitti. I would personally favour just evening out the broken font. It would make it unremarkable but usable.

[@tombricks1177]

Now do all ~300 local authorities in England.

[@endersquid1132]

0:58 as an american not really, I actually kind of hate coats of arms/crests/achievements state flags have ruined them for me, so many of them are just small over detailed crests or images on a plain blue flag and it's like these aren't even flags crests and images don't belong on flags none of these are distinct from one another you can hardly even tell what most of them are depicting and everytime I see a crest I'm reminded of these god awful excuses for flags and I just why america

[@MatiProbably]

The old Haringey logo looks too much like the SS

[@pirukiddingme1908]

Can’t say I’m as enthusiastic as you about the old haringey logo. Looks a bit too fascist for my liking

[@danielskinner1796]

Also, the problem with the Haringey logo (as a local of the time) was that it weathered terribly. The orange on black meant that after one season outside it just looked degraded and dilapidated (Just like everything else in the borough). It just looked dystopian in the real world.

[@GroovingPict]

stop saying Twinings weirdly

[@occularpatdown]

if we are going to be pedants - fishes...?