Lionel American 4-4-0 Brass Hybrids

Review of Lionel's 4-4-0 American Class brass hybrid locomotives. From Set 1922150 Union Pacific 119 (1931660) Central Pacific Jupiter 60 (1931650). Union Pacific Coach set (1927380) Central Pacific Coach Set (1927390). This was filmed on our Cohn and Taggart Layouts.
Union Pacific 119 www.lionel.com/...
Central Pacific Jupiter www.lionel.com/...
Union Pacific Coach set www.lionel.com/...
Central Pacific Coach set www.lionel.com/...

[@michaelgmoore5708]

Very good, yes smoke would be a must for me but the fantastic detail makes up for it.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

Agreed!

[@joeyBirskovich]

they need bring back those

[@mamanbear1]

Great video , layout and trestle work.

[@danlefou]

The models are of the 1975 replicas, which have air brakes, injectors and steam pressure lubricators, none of which the original engines had. For an authentic 1869 appearance, you need to remove the air pumps, piping and gauges running between boiler and cab, leaving only the big boiler pressure gauge and the water pumps ahead of the front driving wheels. Also too modern is the gauge glass on the boiler backhead.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

These are intended to be true 1860 models. That being said it’s plausible that some things that are on the replicas snuck on to these models. As for the cab interior I see that as possible. As for air compressors, while full train breaks would’ve not existed yet they may have used air for the independent break. Steam injectors and boiler sight glasses would’ve had to be a must. With put injectors there’s no way of getting water into the already pressurized boiler. Without sight glasses there’s no way to monitor the water level above the crown sheet and if it dropped below that well then there’s a boiler explosion in the not so distant future.

[@danlefou]

@@WichitaToyTrainClub In the 2019 announcement of the upcoming hybrid 4-4-0 models, kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqWWlWZ7nKadipI, Lionel clearly states that, with the exception of the PRR example, they are of modern replica locomotives with their air brakes, injectors, pressure lubricators and gauge glasses. The intention is presumably to make them compatible with modern-era layouts as "guest" locos. I have been reading about 19th century American locomotives for over 50 years, so I do know when various innovations appeared. Hundreds of photographs were taken during the construction of the Union and Central Pacific Railroads, and many of them are on the Internet. Schenectady and Rogers engines of both roads were well covered, several from various angles, including cab shots from the tender. Not one shows any evidence of gauge glasses or air brakes, and only the Rogers machines have an injector, on the port side. Many crews in the 1860s reportedly didn't trust glass tubes under high pressure, and found the "French squirt" (invented by Henri Giffard in 1858) temperamental and over-reliant on frequent precise maintenance, so most roads didn't order these optional devices at the time. Boiler water level was monitored by the traditional try cocks arranged in a diagonal line of three on the engineer's side, while water feed was by crosshead pumps. If the level was low at a stop or before setting out, the loco had to be run or pushed up and down a siding for a while or, ingeniously, run at a standstill on greased rails, which needed heavy sanding before the train could resume its journey! The Westinghouse automatic air brake was not even on the market before 1872, and it was around 1890 before the Southern Pacific, successor of the CPRR, ran a freight train completely fitted with triple-valve safety brakes. Locomotives had no brakes except for the handbrake on the tender; to slow a train, the brakemen were alerted by two long whistle blasts to apply the handbrakes on the cars, while the loco was put into reverse and the throttle gently opened to provide back pressure on the pistons. This technique, as old as steam railroading, can be seen in the movies "The Great Locomotive Chase" and Buster Keaton's masterpiece "The General". Genuine vintage engines in both cases, albeit retrofitted with air brakes and other modern gear. I have a copy of Baldwin's specification sheet for Virginia & Truckee RR #22 Inyo, delivered in 1875. Among the equipment is noted 'Glass Water Gauge: 1' (though not armoured like those on the replicas and the Lionel models); 'Brakes: None' and 'Injectors: None'. The V&T was quite a prosperous, progressive road, and it fitted air brakes and injectors as soon as they were considered reliable, i.e. apparently in the 1880s. Train Simulator has "how to drive" videos for the Jupiter and 119 add-ons at kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIXRpGiAmdZgkLs and kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaGpkISMa9Kjq7c . The Jupiter is in an earlier interpretation of the livery, but the 119 is up-to-date except for the injector and damper controls, which have since been added. Note how much simpler the backhead detail is than on the replicas. cprr.org/Museum/Books/I_ACCEPT_the_User_Agreement/Jupiter-119_Appleman_NPS.pdf is over 300 pages of research data on which the replicas were based. Lots of cab drawings from 1860s locos of various makes! References: John H White Jr - 'American Locomotives: An Engineering History 1830-1880'. Massive tome, stuffed with detailed drawings. George Abdill - 'A Locomotive Engineer's Album' and 'Rails West'. Lynne Rhodes Mayer and Kenneth E. Vose - 'Makin' Tracks'. Very large photos, some double page, of transcontinental construction. Gerald M Best - 'Iron Horses to Promontory' And many others. www.nps.gov/articles/getaway-gosp.htm has a Schenectady cab shot, possibly of Jupiter.

[@jasonrackawack9369]

Must be Doc Brown and Marty McFly using the walkie talkies back in the old west....all kidding aside on the goofy crew talk feature on an 1800s engine, those are really great looking trains.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

Best comment I’ve heard on the radios yet 😂 seriously though just like any other locomotive of you dot like it just don’t hit the button. I do wish they but some different sound clips in there more related to the transcontinental completion.

[@Tomeleck]

Really terrific video & camera work. Thank you. No smoke though? Lionel now puts so much smoke into their new diesels that all their diesels should be put in the shop to have their piston rings replaced. So it's surprising that these two engines which should smoke, don't.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

Thanks! I was disappointed originally with no smoke but I’ve been more content with it recently. Smoke units require maintenance no matter what and with how small and delicate these locomotives are that would’ve made that maintenance very difficult

[@Tomeleck]

@@WichitaToyTrainClub Thank you for your very courteous reply. As far as I am concerned, when you charge that much for a model train you ought to ensure that it comes with an optional smoke unit. You can always turn it off should you have a real concern for its continued maintenance. Owing to my respect for your really terrific video, I dislike disagreeing with you on this issue. Still, I remain convinced that expensive steam locomotives should really produce a convincing amount of smoke.

[@pennsy484]

Only an Xacto knive would make me more nervous about the finish than that metal pointer you are using! Joking aside, Beautiful loco!

[@Hendo56]

I can't get behind "dispatcher" conversations on an 1860s loco...

[@Porschedude8]

Excellent! 👏😌

[@markfrench8892]

The rod going to the Sand BOX is to open a stop inside the Sand box to apply sand to the rails. It's not throttle linkage. Also the headlamp is painted the wrong color on the 119.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

We never claim to be experts so it’s very possible I got confused around the sand dome. As far as the headlight goes I stated that Lionel has the most updated information from historians as to what color the locomotives were and do not currently reflect what the replicas look like. In time when the replicas are forced into a 15 Year FRA boiler inspection they will most likely be painted like you see the Lionel models now

[@markfrench8892]

I might add that the crew talk isn't even real for more modern times.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

That is true the crew talk has never been stated to reflect real radio transmissions

[@will2926]

First!! Absolutely beautiful

[@adamrivera3327]

Love the engines and the review but one thing I would like to make known. At 20:52 you say that there's no road specific crew talk and to an extent but there is some dialog specific to these locomotives, sometimes the Jupiter will say their headed east and the 119 will say head west. A small Easter egg in the dialog thats hard to pick up on but still cool. One thing I don't like about both locomotives is the two rods on either side of the smoke box. There made of plastic and can brake they also warp to which is a bummer on an otherwise astonishing locomotive. Wish it was brass

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

I listened for what you mentioned at that mark didn’t hear it. Might just have to pay attention next time I have these out. I can second that on the rod from the smoke box it’s the one plastic pice and they seem to be the wrong length and it does kinda sick out.

[@OldIronVideo]

The sad part is how wrong they got the boiler color. Russia Iron should have a blueish tint that's just a plane gray

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

Lionel did state when these were announced that a lot of colors would be different from what everyone was used to, due to new developments with the historian they were working with. I’m sure by now that same historian has changed their mind 😉

[@OldIronVideo]

@@WichitaToyTrainClub This isn't something hard to figure out though. Every locomotive at the time had Russian Iron, we have examples of Russian iron left today. What they put on those engines looks nothing like it.

[@disqorddoge1101]

Radio dispatch on trains from before radios...a little lazy

[@davidkoehler136]

and then they kill it with radio chatter

[@jasongartner2525]

Shame you can really notice sounds in car not tender

[@johnpolen4090]

Which locomotive do the Woodruff cars go with

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

They would go with any of the 4-4-0’s I believe they were high end sleepers at the time and were leased to the railroads for use. I have still never came across any of the Lionel Woodruff cars

[@a.b.4052]

What was the cost on this locomotive? I am trying to find one.

[@WichitaToyTrainClub]

As stated at 38:30 the MSRP on these locomotives was $1100. For dealers that do still have these in stock I have seen them currently around $13-$1400.