Lip Vibration of Trombone Embouchures, Leno, Part 1 of 3

[@delbertlong2039]

It's been nearly 50 years since I played trombone in High School - just purchased a used student quality instrument and I'm trying to get back into it. These videos might be a great help, thanks.

[@slipbone]

Thanks you so much for preserving and sharing these studies. I attended the 1975 ITA Workshop in Nashville and saw Dr. Leno present his work. Seeing the film projected on a large movie screen made the vibrating lips very large, 3 to 5 feet across. And in response to Smooooth, yes it was a bit trippy. I think all of the subjects of these three segments played at the workshop that year and Dr. Larry Kitzel was my Major Professor.

[@kellycoady4230]

I studied with Dr. Leno from 7th grade on . . . I'm now 60 years old . . . a great dedicated man.

[@smooooth_]

I do not mean to derail the seriousness of the comments, but I have to say, it is really trippy seeing lips buzzing inside of the mouthpiece

[@bebopmomma]

@wilktone Yes, things change. Watrous probably doesn't make any conscious changes, as is the case for most of us, but if something doesn't change, i.e., air speed, vibrations, aperture size, direction of the air stream, pitches for example WON'T change. It's all about physics whether we think about it when we're playing or not. It's a concept that many beginners don't "get" about learning a brass instrument, so I switch 'em to a reed instrument. Excellent video. Thanks for posting.

[@smaertpot04]

Watrous told me this in his own words, he does not change his embouchure from pitch to pitch.

[@wilktone]

Depends on what you mean by "changes." The aperture size and amount of lip mass vibrating will change. There will also be some pushing and pulling of the lips with the mouthpiece in a slight and generally up and down direction. Those changes are normal, and even Watrous has them.

[@snrnsjd]

Wow! This is such a great information!

[@wilktone]

Depends on what Watrous means by "changes" too. Something changes, because the speed of the vibration changes, the aperture size changes, the angle of the upstream/downstream, etc. But Watrous certainly doesn't change to a different embouchure, he has the same embouchure for his whole range.

[@wilktone]

Accidentally removed from zimnochmusic: "Yes - there are some physical changes that will take place, but the amount and degree of change of all the aspects you mentioned can be greatly minimized and reduced to the point of being barely noticeble. I think Watrous gives the best example of this - and I think it goes a long way to explaining the range, flexibility and connectedness he has in his tone.

[@wilktone]

Cellet's "tongue controlled embouchure" is best suited for players with short lower teeth and a large lower lip. I would recommend you eliminate his "spit tongue" attacks and learn to attack normally. I'd even try anchoring your tongue off the lower lip, on your lower teeth or even lower instead. It works better long term. Callet himself has a downstream embouchure. You can see photos of his embouchure in "A Photographic Study of Twelve Professional Trumpet Embouchures" by Daryl Gibson.

[@loren1283]

That might be why it works so well for me, and yes the stream is directed downward. However the spit buzz is key to the callet technique, and I wouldnt want to remove my tounge from its forward position either. Its so hard to find anyone that uses or is even aware of his method so actually it makes life a little difficult from a studying point of veiw.

[@macree01]

question Dave. So when Watrous plays it looks as if he is pivoting down for the High Bb, and his bottom lip tucked in, all characteristics that remind of a IIIB. Am I wrong?

[@onelife50]

i have been playing trombone for 3 years now and i want toi know to make my embouchure stronger

[@theonlywyldeman]

Ok I have a question... Im a 53 year old man with false teeth and do not glue them in. I played trombone in school years ago. I now want to take it back up including the sax both alto and tenor. I have the instruments but having trouble with embouchure. I remember in school that we have 3 levels playing the trombone low middle high....at least thats what i remember....been awhile.... im doing better with mouth placement with the trombone but after watching this vid it kinda confuses me.

[@bebopmomma]

@wilktone After 41 years of teaching, I've learned that not everyone who chooses a brass instrument will be successful at it. I too teach proper technique, but some students today are too lazy to do the work necessary to be successful at brass instruments. I am not meant to play flute, by comparison, nor interested in wasting resources in times like these. They have all been happy with switching to clarinet and sax and have all been highly successful with the switch.

[@wilktone]

Accidentally removed from zimnochmusic: " Again I think smaertpot04 is reporting accuarately. If you look at his video on embrochure (here on youtube) he says it's all in the airstream. If you try to control it with embrochure muscles you'll end up "calling 911".

[@bebopmomma]

@wilktone Keeping it simple: I teach beginners thru undergrads; Pivot System and some basic Caruso. If a student isn't going to practice, there's no point to any of it. We have to develop our reeds, we can't buy ours or trade them in. After switching them and finding their real niche, they begin to practice. I don't live where everyone works hard enough to be a brass player, but they can still enjoy music. Your videos are great. I get it; they don't. That's all I'm trying to say.

[@wilktone]

@bebopmomma Depends on what you mean by "proper technique." Watch more of the videos I've posted here to learn what I mean, I can't explain in so few characters here. I guess it also depends on the age and aspirations of your students. I teach college, so I would discourage a student who doesn't have it in them for a career. But up through high school, I say let them play what they want and help them learn how to work with their anatomy rather than trying to change what can't be changed.

[@nuremberger1]

Geoge Roberts先生のLow Fの唇の振動を高速撮影した動画。Bill Watrous氏もあります。イメージわきます。

[@wilktone]

Sorry, I went to reply and accidentally clicked remove. The changes that go on can be minimized, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing to do so. Also, it is false that the embouchure muscles cannot be consciously controlled. What a singer in the 19th century says is not evidence. Use logic to troubleshoot and fine tune your embouchure, not myth.

[@wilktone]

@bebopmomma Personally, if a student wants to play a brass instrument I teach him/her to play it properly, rather than switching them to instrument they may not be interested in.

[@JOJO-dj6os]

Funny

[@loren1283]

Jerome Callets embouchure is the only technique worth anything. I have no idea how people manage to make the trumpet sound passable with a modern technique. Do yourself a favour if your a begginer and check him out.