Liquid to Gas Conversion

[@thepilotman5378]

To all of the people saying his answers are harsh (including other videos) yes, they are. That's kinda the point. JayZ is teaching jet engine components and jet operations. If you've ever talked to an aircraft mechanic, you'd know JayZ is one of the nicest 😅

[@teflonjohn1776]

Let me cut to the chase, this man will cook you a perfect medium rare off the orenda.

[@stevecunningham2759]

I really enjoy your videos. The functional and theoretical detail of turbine engines is very interesting even tho I will never actually need the information.

[@davidshutt2273]

Tell 'em, JZed.

[@dreamwork69]

bro travelled thru dimensions at the beginning of the video. I knew he work on more than just jet engines at his shop.

[@C-M-E]

You know you've found a niche when you didn't ask a question but still get that instructor/student fear shock of 'Oh god, please don't call my name!' 😁

[@richardlincoln8438]

Very informative as usual, thank You for sharing this knowledge. Best Wishes to You, Your Family and Friends. Hope that You have a very pleasant Canada Day. 🇨🇦

[@manifold1476]

Crikey! Workin' the long weekend. I just saw the fireworks here in Charlottetown, PE Happy Canada Day 🎆

[@AgentJayZ]

Been to Glace Bay, and to NL. Trailer Park Boys is hilarious, but Maritimers are the nicest, most honest people on Earth. They are Canada's treasure for the world.

[@zapfanzapfan]

0:04 I see you have invented teleportation, another great method of transportation 🙂 Happy Canada Day!

[@AgentJayZ]

You gotta surf the glitches to make the time fly.

[@teflonjohn1776]

27 yo out of DC. Thank you for your recommendation on the Otis textbook !!

[@SF-wu2mp]

Happy holidays neighbor to the north! Love your videos! Very informative and interesting. ❤

[@buxybuilt1519]

Thank you very much for your detailed video to my question! Explained it all and more 👌🏻

[@mcintyretyler89]

Happy canada day captain.

[@cameronjohnston5748]

Thanks for you're explanations.

[@gordonlawrence1448]

Just designing that combustion chamber looks like a nightmare. I tried designing a small simple one to try and figure out how far beyond my knowledge it is. I think I would need about 3 years to learn how. I'm sticking to electronics, it's easier.

[@AgentJayZ]

Got a few vids on combustor liners.

[@grahamj9101]

Good morning, AgentJayZ, and greetings from Austria, where I'm wearing my Jet City tee-shirt today. You mention the Industrial RB211 as having dual fuel capability, but the Industrial Olympus had it years before. As usual, I'm going to be pedantic and explain that the term dual fuel should mean that the unit is capable of changing over from liquid to gas (and vice-versa) at full power, and be capable of continuous running on a mixture. If a shutdown is needed to make the change, then that's a double fuel system. I may have mentioned in the past that I did the original project design proposal for the Industrial RB211 dual fuel burner. That was a real quart-into-a-pint-pot exercise.

[@iliassfakri149]

THANK YOU AGENT JAYZ

[@SkyhawkSteve]

The issue of using compressed or cryogenic gas as a fuel is an interesting one. Wheeled vehicles have been doing this for a while, and I had the fun of being part of a "dual fuel" diesel engine project that could run on natural gas (mostly). As noted, you need some sort of pressure vessel to store compressed gas, and this quickly gets large and heavy. Not a big problem for a truck or bus, but it's not going to be easily fit into an aircraft. Cryogenic fuel is another whole bag of problems... just ask the folks building rocket engines. The change to a new fuel is something that the aviation industry has been researching for some time, and I think their best answer so far is to just synthesize a liquid fuel from hydrogen and carbon dioxide. As always, thanks for the video!

[@fuzzy1dk]

Toyota has played round with a liquid hydrogen direct injected race car, the tank is 150liters to store 10kg of fuel, the fuel pump only last few tanks worth of fuel because it can't be lubricated and has to work at -253'C. I see that there is some companies working on running jet engine in airplanes on ammonia, which to me sounds insane

[@zapfanzapfan]

Yes, biofuel or synthetic fuel that is liquid at room temperature and ambient pressure. Much easier to handle and transport.

[@Kevin-hb7yq]

I had to go look at the video of how a jet engine is hooked up for industrial power generation to make the grid dance with electrons.

[@stormeagle28]

What I'm wondering about: When converting a liquid fueled engine to gaseous fuel - how is the fuel pressure created? It has to be higher than the pressure in the combustor(s) created by the engine's compressor. It's not that difficult to pressure a liquid up to almost every point you want, but how is that done to a gaseous fuel - especially on modern high-powered engines or turbine engines for power generation with their very high compression ratios? Does the fuel come as a liquid and get's vaporized after it passed a fuel pump or does the fuel come as a gas and gets compressed somehow in order to push it into the engine? I could imagine that the latter one will require much more power than a pump for liquid fuel.

[@AgentJayZ]

We test on warmed up propane, which is about 200 psi. The engines we test have Compressor Discharge Pressure of about 150 psi, so the relative pressure pushing the fuel out of the nozzles is about 50, and it works fairly well. In normal service, these engines use natural gas for fuel, which in a high pressure pipeline is at around 900 psi, which is then regulated down to whatever pressure is required.

[@davidfalgout7304]

Good stuff. BTW love your Oil Head BMW R1200 GS I owned one just like it. Wonderful machine... for the most part.

[@AgentJayZ]

Last year I was at the border line up, 20 minutes. 28C, and hot sun... melting me. Idling the whole time. The temp gauge did not change the whole time. Faulty gauge, or awesome engine?

[@davidfalgout7304]

@@AgentJayZ In full disclosure I was a BMW tech and Auto tech and A&P... retired now for 10 years. . I see your question as maybe a trick question? When I said above "wonderful machine for the most part" I was being gracious. Truth be told, BMW machines took a serious nose dive after 1999 due to fatherland management changes & and BMW being at the mercy of the supply chain.... not a good thing. To answer your question, the engine was doing what an air/oil cooled does when sitting still .... it was overheating. The gauge did not register .... because it or the sensor it was connected to, failed. There is a history of temp gauge being inoperable. FWIW, none of my air/oil cooled BMW R1200 GS ( R1100) liked sitting still. For me, on multiple occasions, stationary conditions resulted in a temp rise as indicated by gauge. If temp was getting close to max, I would turn of engine. I hope you did the same. Other wise, when you rebuild the engine you will observe signs of overheating. 😀 BTW, I raced Amateur for 2 yrs in early 90's. I road M/C's since 1969. Covered over over 250,000 miles. We tried many different types of ICE lubes. Royal Purple out performed all ... by a signifiant amount! ONLY USED the HPS formulation. FWIW and YMMV. Have a great day!

[@jadams907]

I work on small industrial gas turbine generators (300KW) we've on a couple occasions injected liquid fuel into the combustors (not intentionally)...it doesn't work well though...she's heading for the moon! overspeed, then BOOM! game over!!

[@prtyof4156]

Beautiful calorie usage! 😉 Nom Nom Nom

[@coryknipe5471]

Great video as always. Nice to see a master at work. As I am not a turbine mechanic and have always had an interest in turbine engines and currently working in the fuel industry, roughly what size of propane supply lines to the pump would be needed for the propane based on the engine in the video? If it is liquid propane coming to the engine, where does the liquid to gas change take place? If its possible could you also touch on Natural gas a little more as many of the electricity producers use that method. Is there is any differences with NG other than the orifice sizing? Just trying to educate myself. Many thanks.

[@AgentJayZ]

Propane pump is a liquid pump upstream of the vaporizer, which is upstream of a control valve, which leads into a 2 inch ID line, which connects to a 1.5 inch ID manifold, which has 3/4 inch ID lines going directly to fuel nozzles. Exact same setup is used for natural gas, except no pump and no vaporizer needed. Natural gas in pipelines is at roughly 900psi.

[@dundaryasa5401]

Dear friend, I have been following you for 5 years. I also read university books about jet engines. There is a question that I am curious about and cannot find the answer to: When the jet engine is running, there is a huge reaction, this reaction occurs in the combustion chamber, but the combustion chamber has a very thin structure. Where in the engine does this great reaction occur and through what material is it transmitted to the aircraft body?

[@AgentJayZ]

Most of the acceleration of the mass of air going through the engine occurs right at the end; the jet nozzle. Others will argue that most of the thrust happens in the compressor. Whatever is happening, the resultant thrust is transferred to the engine cases, to which the main mounts are attached. The thrust of the engine goes through the mounts into the airframe, and everything moves forward.

[@gregebert5544]

Is there a sensor to measure combustion temperature in addition to EGT ? I did a quick check and found that propane has a higher combustion temperature-range vs jet fuel. I hope the engine can be operated in a manner that there wont be heating significantly higher than it is for jet fuel. Is the initial testing with one 3D-printed turbine blade, or several ? Cant wait to see this.

[@AgentJayZ]

For a better understanding of the protection from flame temperature, search my channel page for "Combustor Liners".

Injecting cryogenic methane into a combustor would be a recipe for thermal stress and fatigue. Perhaps like a Saturn rocket nozzle, I would try cooling the tailpipe areas with cryogenic methane with a heat exchanger before injecting somewhat warmed methane into the combustor. This could have the benefit of allowing cheaper and lighter materials to be used in the normally inconel- and titanium-dominated areas. Note: Jet A has a specific energy of ~46 MJ/kg, while cryogenic methane is ~55 MJ/kg.

[@AgentJayZ]

Glad to have you on it. It was a whimsical, humorous challenge, but if you succeed, you will be a true international hero!

[@rhamph]

Gotta go all the way to liquid hydrogen (142 MJ/kg), so it looks good on paper and can convince investors. Someone will surely make money from this development... Don't explain the difference between high heating value and low heating value either, that'll just confuse them.

[@zapfanzapfan]

If you do it like an expander cycle engine then maybe you can even run the fuel pumps and accessories without drawing power from the main shaft. Might make it more difficult to start the engine in the first place... oh, well...

[@WilliamWinsor]

He went into detail about alternative testing last video so who's not paying attention.

[@trombonetortoise3406]

This is so damn interesting! The evaporation of liquid (liquid-gaseous-transition) takes a lot! Of energy. This energy does have to come from somewhere, in the turbine most likely from the compressed burning air. So the evaporation of the fuel must be cooling down the air/fuel mix just before burning. The pressure difference of the gaseous fuel (200 psi to what was it 40?) when exiting the nozzle into the burning chamber also must provide some cooling (expansion is used to make liquid air) but I wondered to which extend? Is the flame fed with a ‚warmer‘ air/fuel mix as when liquid fuel is used? Does this effect turbine efficacy (kJ in fuel fed in vs. power output)? Maybe you guys have not only hit the correct nozzle-hole size in terms of delivering the correct _amount_ of fuel at working throttle, but also to provide the right amount of over-pressure or pressure difference for the correct amount of cooling. Did you experiment with over-pressure and hole size other than starting performance and is this a factor at all? This is so much fun! :) Love your videos an questioning my career choices … and of course: Happy Canada Day!

[@author722]

I'm building a jet engine. Initially started with a centrifugal compressor (car turbo) then after I've managed to get this running properly will move to making an axial flow compressor. The issue on my first prototype is fuel - I'm experimenting with liquid kerosene and diesel but getting these to atomise properly for combustion is a challenge. I could switch to propane and I suspect this would be much easier, but I dont want to go down this route just yet. I'm using a danfoss nozzle used in diesel/waste oil heaters with about a 0.7mm opening - suspect the problem I'm having is insufficient psi in the fuel line (I'm using a 12v car fuel pump). Any ideas?

[@AgentJayZ]

The car pump is probably not supplying enough pressure. The older aircraft turbojets start at around 200 psi, and at full power around 1000 psi.

[@author722]

@@AgentJayZ Yup thanks AgentJayZ. I've seen you mention these 4 figure psi numbers in some of your other videos. Diesel cars have high pressure fuel pumps which can easily exceed 3000 psi, however these are mechanical pumps and for my application will likely need to come up with an electrical solution. My current car pump is pushing 40 to 60 psi if I'm lucky. Cheers

[@AgentJayZ]

I think you need to use a hydraulic pump driven by an electric motor of a couple HP all feeding into your fuel control. A manually controlled valve is not the way it has been done since Whittle's early experiments... for good reasons.

[@wagsman9999]

"one... not so much" LOL

[@excitedbox5705]

I doubt you could atomize the cryogenic fuel without the nozzles icing up and clogging. Unless you use something like the rocket fuel nozzles where multiple streams converge at enough speed/pressure to atomize fuel through the impact, or some variation.

[@donnlee-ig8lz]

can you do a video on non continuous combustion engines.but not the ram jet or scram jet but the type where a piston engine is used to spin the compressor instead of a turbine

[@AgentJayZ]

I could, if I read up on the details of the history... but then you could do that. There are none of these engines in use anywhere, because it was shown back in the 1930s that it's not a good idea.

[@DScottDuncan]

Regarding your challenge to build a cryogenic fueled jet engine, I wonder how many viewers said: "Here. Hold my beer!" 😂 Interesting concept and thanks for your time. I'm still learning from you and your channel. DD

[@AgentJayZ]

I want someone to do it. !

[@jakestanley4210]

What if any are the provisions or differences for dual fuel? We use LM2500s that will run on diesel or fuel gas offshore.

[@AgentJayZ]

Dual fuel nozzles are the answer. For liquid or gaseous fuel capability, you need two separate fuel management systems. Many LM2500s and RB211s I have seen are configured so. The fuel nozzles are mighty expensive, and are connected to two separate fuel manifolds.

[@micstonemic696stone]

It seems I have already lost my patreon I live in my overdraft I wonder is it possible to pay in advance rather than resetting it every month I can afford it I believe this is well worth it Goodnight sir

[@LesNewell]

What temperature is the propane? At 220 psi it liquifies at around 65C so it must be hotter than that.

[@AgentJayZ]

Dint I mention it's about 200F?

[@LesNewell]

@@AgentJayZ Nope, you mentioned 200PSI and 220PSI in different parts of the video but no temperature. That brings me on to my second question. Do you have any issues with propane condensing in the supply pipes before startup? Maybe that could be a contributing factor to the startup issues you had when initially developing gas nozzles.

[@AgentJayZ]

Oh... we purge the line until we feel heat in the connector at the end. We blow off enough propane to run my ruck for a year for every test. But the engine in service will use the purge quantity of gas every couple of seconds or so.

[@johnkey1682]

Propane is a liquid at 200psi and room temperature, maybe it wouldn't be too difficult to run on liquid propane. After all fork lift trucks run on liquid propane from a tank with a syphon tube. Not saying I have the means to try it or anything, just a thought.

[@anotheruser676]

Fork trucks are not really running on liquid propane. You can store more fuel as a liquid than as gas giving you greater time between cylinder swaps. Your delivery system does it's best to create a gas-like state in the combustion chamber by spraying a fine mist that then vaporizes in the combustion chamber.

[@AgentJayZ]

Actually, forklifts do not spray liquid into the engine. The propane is sent through a small vaporizer, just like in my truck. The vapor is then sent through the engine. In BBQ tanks, the necessary flow is so small, the propane vapor that forms in the tank is used.

[@johnkey1682]

@@AgentJayZ I was just trying to say (and failing) that liquid delivery from a pressurized tank to a target is possible with out anything fancy so long as the delivery pressure is high enough. ( cryogenic temperatures don't need to be maintained). The burst disk on a normal propane tank is set to 28 Bar, so, somewhere between 200psi and 28Bar at room temperature the propane will be liquid.

[@AgentJayZ]

Ooh. When you said burst disk, I cringed and took cover.

[@johnkey1682]

@@AgentJayZ 🤣 well it's better than the tank rupturing. When I lived in England i worked at a university and had to do the BOC pressurised gas safety course. they showed a video of a 50Kg propane tank in a fire on the back of a truck. When the burst disk released there was a jet of flame but if they had got the fire out it would have been fine.

[@Sloth-j1m]

Hey biphase technologies makes a liquid propane fuel injection system for a topkick or Kodiak there's no reason that technology can't be put Into a gas turbine engine

[@AgentJayZ]

Yes. They might have to make some special parts, because their current systems are for engines below about 500 Hp. Need more juice to make 8,000 like an Orenda, 15,000 like an LM1500, or 40,000 like an LM2500. I am going to look into getting a system for my next truck. Right now I run vaporous port injection on a 6.2L GM.

[@filepz629]

❤️‍🔥

[@micstonemic696stone]

I heard you cannot light fuel in its liquid state it must be a vapour or a spray But I am just the student

[@toppradd]

1st to the hot flame thingy..✅

[@toppradd]

Agent are you blocking my comments or is it yt? .. blocking i mean “stealthy n unseen” except by me.. .. just asking .. tnx Z

[@AgentJayZ]

Not at all. I only do that to people who insult me, spew nonsense as if it was knowledge, or otherwise bug me with uncivilized behavior.

[@schwags1969]

@@AgentJayZ It is bound to happen. Love the information. Happy Canada day.

[@ecomandurban7183]

❤❤

[@localenterprisebroadcastin5971]

The cryogenic powered jet engine you’re describing as a challenge to build is literally a primitive open cycle rocket engine 😂 the difference being that this engine would rely on ambient air rather than liquid oxygen…the Germans already played around with this concept in the late 30s and ran into the same problems as you would today 1 storage of the fuel, cryogenic fuels require an awful lot of insulation, especially if you’re using low density fuels like hydrogen.. the added weight required to insulate cryogenic fuels is a real problem for Aviation… 2 , cryogenic fuels are difficult to keep stable during altitude changes (Pascal law full effect there) 3 Expense, dealing with cryogenic fuels during refueling and producing said fuels to begin with is far more expensive then just good old-fashioned liquid Hydro carbons … none of the listed issues above are a problem for a industrial application…the reason the Germans wanted to use cryogenic fuels was simple, they did not possess the precious metals (in sufficient quantities) required to build reliable jet engines. Therefore, the cooling effect of the cryogenic fuels would’ve helped extend the service life of their primitive axial flow engines…. No, this didn’t yield the results they were hoping for it certainly helped perfect their rocket technology.

[@AgentJayZ]

What I am describing is an engine identical to what we have today, fueled by a flammable gas. The only change is the fuel storage and metering system. So... it's not any kind of rocket.

[@micstonemic696stone]

Not sure where I heard it but I heard liquid kerosene gives a greater amount of power per 1/1 with any other fuel type

[@micstonemic696stone]

I never like to use the word suction anymore But I wonder whether using the word vacuum intake would be scientifically correct, Interestingly there is nothing on Google thesaurus check for suction but vacuum does reference the Hoover I know it is late for you and hope you read this messages tomorrow goodnight my friend

[@RobertSchmitt-u7l]

Just imagine how much effort and power is WASTED moving natural gas to a pumping centers and larger pipelines to a power center, and then pumping electricity back over high voltage back into the grid then back. If gen stations were modular, hey, yes, the size of a shipping container, and placed on natural gas distribution sited next to grid, I wonder how much that could actually save. Jayzeuschristmas.

[@AgentJayZ]

Well, since we're dreaming of a decentralized future power grid, replace or augment all of your generating stations with wind turbines. Despite the naysayers, if will be that way soon. In the great oil nation of Texas, I have seen installations of thousands of megawatt class wind turbines. Gigawatts baby. To all those saying "the wind doesn't always blow", they don't understand decentalization. Bless their hearts.

[@RobertSchmitt-u7l]

@@AgentJayZ Yeah I know wind is all the rave, you must have your brain strapped to the wingtips to think its so... great. Solar, off grid systems in texas actually work great, I myself am using this daily, and it would be a perfect source for power, expecially when its engineered properly and economically, not in a "pseudopsychopatically beneficial" way. It takes, lightweight, efficient, and easy.