Lisa the Joyful: Definitive Edition - Yado (Joyless, True Ending)

[@Kagira2006]

It may seem like nothing, but seeing 2 mounds of dirt at the end warms my heart. It implies that in the end, Buddy most likely put Brad out of his misery and buried him as well, as respectfully as she did Dusty rather than savagely ripping him in two and tossing his corpse aside like the joy mutant ending. He can finally rest.

[@balanceherosmt7170]

Both Brad and Dusty were both victims to others' selfish desires, both who did everything they could to give Buddy a better place in such a hellhole. Brad just wanted to feel what real love is and Dusty always wanted to do the right thing with the strength and lessons he learned from Brad.

[@fluorideinthechat7606]

You know I’m kinda liked the speech, seeing Buzzo get called out for trying to blame it all on Lisa after all the shit he did (like, you know, actively helping to create the goddamn apocalypse and fucking up Brad for something he didn’t even know would happen).

[@ChaosUnown]

The new dialogue was honestly on point and Buzzo deserved every word of it, haha.

[@Zekyb0y]

It's nice, but Lisa already made attempts against her life before meeting Buzo, so it's not like she would be still alive if she never meet him, it was retconed? It feels like it doesn't fit.

[@aswangmonkey361]

The only line I didn’t like was the one about how she may have lived if she never met Buzzo. Though I guess it’d make sense if he enabled her in her self harm.

[@gotgunpowder]

@@ChaosUnown "on point" it reads like poorly-done fanfic from someone who didn't like Buzzo. Buddy has zero room to judge him either given that she's a literal mass murderer with the same flimsy sob story justifications for her awful actions motivated purely by a desire for power and control (which was the only reason she even looked up to Buzzo in the first place - he symbolized what she wanted to be). It also completely throws out Buzzo's last act of redemption (mutating and ending his own life after realizing how much he messed up) and makes him an overall less complex or interesting character all for the sake of some hamfisted gotcha moment that was shoehorned into where it really didn't belong, like it should have been delivered by Brad earlier in the story instead of by this literal child who somehow knows everything about Buzzo's personal life for some reason cuz dream sequence. but sure, it was "on point" I guess.

[@ChaosUnown]

@@gotgunpowder And you're entitled to that opinion. 👍👍👍👍

[@aswangmonkey361]

I felt a little bad for Buzzo during Buddy’s speech but then quickly remembered how much he deserved it.

[@balanceherosmt7170]

Right. He tried to blame others for his own failure to prevent Lisa from taking her own life and did not do anything HIMSELF like confronting Marty to make him stop. Not to mention, helping Yado dooming humanity to extinction and making Brad's life even more miserable.

[@gotgunpowder]

@@balanceherosmt7170 tf was he supposed to do lmao. he was in a straight up abusive relationship with her but it's apparently his fault for not saving her from the violent alcoholic. not to mention so much of it also applies to buddy as well, meaning she's doing basically the same thing he was. she calls him a baby while she's the scared child who tried to murder everyone around her for some vague notion of "safety", and almost everything she says about buzzo can be turned around on her. stupid ending.

[@RevenantNeverDies]

the whole story is literally implied that if buzzo actually cared enough to take lisa away from marty and help her the whole story wouldve been prevented. he relied too much on others to hand him what he wants and it ended with brads sister dead@@gotgunpowder

[@generalfletch7043]

@@RevenantNeverDiesyou forget how Lisa would manipulate him into doing things such as manipulating him? While yes buzzo is a scumbag and deserves 90% but implying that buzzo could’ve done anything with the little power ofa child on top of the manipulation Lisa had done to him? Nah

[@infamouse9263]

@@RevenantNeverDieshow was he supposed to do that they were kids?

[@tyem1416]

Buddy: The Armstrong Dojo would be so ashamed... Me: I'm pretty sure they have been rolling in their graves because of everything he has done.

[@jtlego1]

Grandpappy Armstrong would be spinning so hard you could generate electricity from his grave.

[@Arron_whetton]

I cackled like a witch when i read this and the reply above me.

[@caesarseizure1625]

Alternative title: Child roasts man so hard he mutates

[@TheLawliet10]

I've seen a lot of people split on Buddy's speech to Buzzo, and the way I see it Buddy's half right. I think that Buzzo does understand pain, but I don't think blaming Lisa for everything that he's done absolves him of what he did to Brad or his hand in Yado's 'perfect world'. At the same time, Buddy's like... 10 I think? Her whole view of the world before the events of the game where Brad training her, hanging out with the best uncles in the apocalypse, and wearing the worst disguise ever made. She's definitely suffered, and she's right about Brad trying to fix his life, but she also doesn't have the ability to fully comprehend the pain of others. I've got no clue about Giant Lisa Mom hallucination, but it could have something to do with the red flower in the dreamscape thing. Poppies are red, and their milk is used to make Opium so maybe it's just non-Joy related drugs kicking in? Maybe it's Buddy's cooping mechanism after finding something in the Armstong house? All I know is that I like the after credits of the new True Ending a lot.

[@emperorprimalaspid9738]

I think the big Lisa mom is just symbolism rather than anything the characters would see in the world

[@TheLawliet10]

@@emperorprimalaspid9738 Probably, especially since the ending is in a Joyless run. The thing is it could also be a hallucination by Buddy that is sybmbolic at the same time.

[@Ldwg67282]

The speech is good from concept but for me it kinda falls flat, like the entirety of Joyful and Buddies character in Joyful

[@jtlego1]

Honestly, I think my *only* problem with the True Ending is the mommy/binky line. Everything else is pretty much A-OK to me as a takedown of Buzzo's general holier-than-thou-pushing-the-blame-unto-others bullshit. This and the bonus fight in Painful makes it pretty clear that trying to deify Lisa is not a solution to anyone's problems, not to Brad and *certainly* not to Buzzo. Buddy might be going over the line a little by saying Lisa might've been still alive if not for Bernard, but him going to the grave harboring the delusion/satisfaction that he could pass the buck to someone already dead and buried wasn't going to cut it.

[@gotgunpowder]

the original version didn't even have him shifting the blame, and he straight up realizes at the end how much he screwed up and that his revenge was misplaced. but nah, let's remove his single sympathetic quality and give him a big speech about how he's wrong from a person who is *definitely* standing in a big ole glass house. seriously, Buddy is just as much of a holier-than-thou-pushing-blame-onto-others type as him, the only excuse she had was being a child while Buzzo was a grown man who probably should have known better. she is still not the person who should be giving him all this grief given she's as much of a scared baby who justified all her mass-murder with the same crap he did.

[@hectorrodriguezgonzalez8938]

​​@@gotgunpowder" Brad was a good person, what happened to him wasn't his fault, it was HER'S" That's vervademly what he sayed, he litealy blamed Lisa for him been the way he it

[@fudgegorilla]

I think the ending may be much further in the future than the original two-and that statue was built to honor Buddy, who has actually become a Messiah figure.

[@tyem1416]

It would make sense why this didn't happen in the original true ending. Buddy didn't know enough about lisa. Honestly the rant wouldn't seem much at first. But probably hits different depending on the joy/less route played in painful.

[@Zimbabwae1]

man the buddy low tier god speech reminds of toby fox old writing tbh

[@JonJohJameson]

Someone get Austin some ointment for that burn

[@Zimbabwae1]

atleast we got the Lisa the joyful growing pains fan expansion

[@RevenantNeverDies]

holy shit low tioer god speech?????? like she freaking dunks on him like that???? thats epic dude

[@RevenantNeverDies]

@@Zimbabwae1 HOLY CRAP SHE ROASTED HIM ON A BBQ JESUS!!!!!

[@ЛеонидЗурнаджи]

"lisa deserved much better than you"

[@flaco3462]

people are split down the middle on bubs speech and buzzos character slam as well as the whole dream sequence to get to this ending and the ending itself but the little conversation between her and brad about flowers is rather nice she still sucks though

[@2Bit_2]

I didn't get the True Ending at all, Buzzo having a mommy kink? Buddy becoming low tier god? Big woman? It makes no sense to me

[@flaco3462]

@@2Bit_2 i think its funny that she drops this on him like a sack of bricks thanks to her being able to know this through a ridiculous dream sequence its not exactly that legitimate but its still amusing though i have no idea what the giant woman means

[@scriggle3564]

​@flaco3462 In the game files that sprites called lisa mom so do what you will with that info Also atp I don't even try to make sense of this game ngl these expansion updates imo weren't that great... but everyone is entitled to they're opinions

[@flaco3462]

@@scriggle3564 i do know about the giant lady bein lisas mum

[@HYDEinallcaps]

@@2Bit_2 To put it simply, Dingaling was so desperate to retcon the whole "Lisa is the most evil character in LISA" thing that he made Buzzo more or less go "I AM SILLY!"

[@edward9487]

So, this True Ending portion means that we're in the Joyless timeline, right? I'm assuming that's what was going on.

[@2Bit_2]

I'm going to be honest with you, I have no idea what's going on. This could be a hallucination, maybe not, but you do have to beat the game without taking any joy. So its probably in the joyless timeline

[@ЛеонидЗурнаджи]

Imagine beating The Joyful. Without Joy. The joyful that has Joy in it's name.

[@jesuiscrespo]

​@@ЛеонидЗурнаджиLisa: The Ful

[@thetarr2]

i like most of the things in this ending however it feels like buddy's speech at the end shouldve been said by brad. it feels so weird for her to just bring up all of this stuff that she wouldve never known if it wasnt for a weird dream sequence

[@gotgunpowder]

also the fact that Buddy is standing in a massive glass house that she definitely shouldn't be throwing stones from. like she has the exact same blame-shifting attitude as Buzzo did. she calls him a scared baby motivated by revenge and anger when that's exactly what she is. her entire crusade started because she was a terrified child who justified all her mass murder with similar mental gymnastics. the only justification she has is being a child who doesn't know better instead of a grown man like Buzzo was. agreed that it would have been far better and more fitting if Brad delivered the speech, he has far more of a leg to stand on especially since he was the target of Buzzo's misplaced anger.

[@Yinlock470]

@@gotgunpowder brad blames himself for everything ever though, he never would've called out buzzo like that

[@ghostlion8616]

So in the good ending Buddy became St Mary

[@alexanderlora6850]

I do not like the whole speech since buzzo saving buddy at the end and becomign a joy-mutant that kills itself is him finally accepting responsibility for his actions by paying with his life and telling buddy what the pill is so she may consume it and save herself instead of dismissing it. It is also way too long, it feels like a dump truck of dialogue, unfitting for what's supposed to be a man barely having 1 or 2 minutes left to live and just robs buzzo of the one moment that actually redeems him. I'd take it if it was established that the speech was never delivered by Buddy, but was instead his own mind destroying him and showing him what really is like the hell of becoming a joy-mutant and what Joy-Victims experiment.

[@gotgunpowder]

Or if it was delivered by Brad. That honestly would have been far more fitting, given how he has far more moral ground to stand on than Buddy and was actually the target of his misplaced anger.

[@RevenantNeverDies]

couldve been cool if berny mutant turned into brad mutant because of the joy hallucination @@gotgunpowder

[@hermeticinstrumentalist6804]

Damn, thank you 2bit.

[@2Bit_2]

Did I do something? Sorry if I sound mean

[@edward9487]

@@2Bit_2 You posted Buddy being the most brutal in all of history.

[@Mr.PurpleThe1st]

Very nice

[@taisiasulina6730]

honestly, might be a bit biased, since i've been a buzzo fan for like 3 years straight, but this feels kinda... not great in terms of writing? i mean? we had this complex story about cyclical abuse and ptsd, pain, addictions and just how quickly people can change under the pressure of trauma, how quickly they turn into monsters under their own guilt and past experiences. and then fucking buddy shows up and goes "oh yeah, we also share hallucinations, and y'know what? you SUCK! and lisa deserved better than you! ngl you were kinda cool because you're scary and badass but nooo you're actually a dumb loser who doesn't love her!". AND THEN buzzo goes into some weird baby-like tangent while turning into berny, which just opens the wound even further. look, i'm not saying that buzzo is a good person or whatever, because it's the opposite of that, but he's still a character that is complex, interesting and tragic in its own way. this just doesn't do him justice, nor does it really do justice to buddy(she's also an interesting character, albeit worse-written than buzzo)

[@taisiasulina6730]

as much as i agree with buzzo being an awful person, it just seems odd for the game to try and push the narrative of him using lisa as an excuse to do shitty things, let alone suggesting that she would be alive if she hadn't met him, or that he didn't really love her(again, buddy is rude to just about everyone, but it's still odd that the way it's framed, especially considering buzzo's weird descent into a baby, makes her out to be right)

[@taisiasulina6730]

also, if buddy did, in fact, speak with lisa, it would make no sense for her to act any different to how she acts(maybe she’s manipulating buddy or something? i dunno) around brad and buzzo(aggressive, jealous and judgemental) this whole plot twist of hallucinations apparently being real and presumably reincarnated versions of people is confusing as hell

[@aswangmonkey361]

@@taisiasulina6730the “being alive if she never met him” I agree with cause it wasn’t his fault at all what happened to her. But also dude straight up sawed Dustin’s face off in Lisa’s name. Fair to assume he does a lot of shitty things “for Lisa.”

[@taisiasulina6730]

@@aswangmonkey361 i didn't say that buzzo did nothing wrong or anything like that. this scene is just very poorly executed, as well as bringing in a lot more questions than answers. yeah, buzzo's an asshole and all, but that doesn't excuse this scene being incredibly weird and unneeded. (also it kinda makes buddy look like a mary sue character(which she kinda is? partially?), considering that she somehow knows the entire lore and also is somehow able to make buzzo no longer hear lisa, as well as like... giving buzzo this... i don't even know how to describe it... roast?

[@Zekyb0y]

@@aswangmonkey361 Lisa told Buzo to do that to Dustin if i remember right, both were doing that to cats before and Lisa was manipulating Buzo to kill the poor animal.

[@HYDEinallcaps]

tl;dr of the bonus scene: "Here's a rant that Dingaling probably paraphrased from some Tumblr user!" *"I AM SILLY!"*

[@gotgunpowder]

Legit reads like fanfiction from someone who really, really did not like Buzzo. I have a fair bit of VX Ace experience so I might honestly mod the game just to fix this travesty. Edit: nvm, they made the rerelease in Unity.

[@RevenantNeverDies]

the character buzzo is not meant to be good stop acting like you know better@@gotgunpowder

[@RevenantNeverDies]

the developer made the speech to make you guys know "he is a bad guy" and you people still dismissing this stuff as "fanfiction"@@gotgunpowder

[@yunkingleong1247]

​@@RevenantNeverDies Lemonade

[@TabascoTurtl]

why aint you using any items

[@2Bit_2]

Because I don't have any

[@saltysnowboi]

@@2Bit_2expected the usual “Don’t need ‘em 😎” response, got “I’m broke lol” instead 💀

[@RevenantNeverDies]

you couldve spammed supply chain during the battle with yado and got lucrative teas@@2Bit_2

[@gotgunpowder]

I'm definitely in the camp of people who don't like the True Ending dialogue. For multiple reasons: 1. It completely retcons and eliminates Buzzo's sole redeeming moment, making him a far less complex character and turning him into an annoying manchild who just blames everyone else for his bad actions, ignoring the whole "cycle of abuse" subtext with Lisa's abusive and manipulative treatment of him as a consequence of the abuse she suffered from Marty. Instead of mutating from the realization that his revenge was meaningless and he caused untold suffering to everyone around him, he mutates as part of a childish tantrum while literally crying for his mommy. 2. It comes from a person who is standing in *an absolutely gigantic glass house* considering Buddy is someone who literally committed mass murder with similar holier-than-thou blame-shifting justifications as Buzzo, with her only excuse being that she's a literal child who doesn't know better (but is somehow mature and eloquent enough to give him that kind of a verbal lashing i guess). Some people have said that it would have been better coming from Brad, or as a joy induced guilt hallucination, and I absolutely agree because Brad was not only the actual target of his misplaced revenge but has far more of a leg to stand on. Not to mention the shit load of victim blaming and ignoring Lisa's role in how twisted their relationship was, down to straight up blaming him for her suicide (???). 3. It's very badly shoehorned into a moment where Buzzo is bleeding to death and half-insane from Joy use. I'm not even being sarcastic when I say this scene would have been improved if he just died from blood loss or mutated halfway through Buddy's rant. That would have legitimately been some great black comedy. The whole thing feels like fanfiction or a game mod from someone who really didn't like Buzzo rather than an actual scene from the game. It hardly even sounds in-character for Buddy (her blunt and offhand dismissal of his excuses in the original was far more fitting). TL;DR Bad ending, no canon.

[@offthepoint2208]

Cope harder lmao

[@N1M2077]

cope

[@yunkingleong1247]

​@@offthepoint2208 Skeess Omid

[@Rine910]

LMAOOOO you're literally coping.

[@Ghost47946]

Et à la fin du jeu qui la géant femme connais bien le jeu mais c'est qui le personnage qui a aucun rapport dans son univers

[@Ghost47946]

Est-ce que c'est vraiment la vraie maman de buddy ?

[@RevenantNeverDies]

La mère de LISA, pas celle d'un copain. Google translate, sorry.@@Ghost47946

[@sirdogith3783]

Still not on board with the Joyful, I think the extra bits are good and bad. Still think the Painful is better tho

[@sahilhossian8212]

Lore of Lisa the Joyful: Definitive Edition - Yado (Joyless, True Ending) momentum 100