Why Britain should never have entered the First World War | Dominic Sandbrook

[@michaeljamieson3582]

The chemistry between Dominic and Tom, combined with their passion for the subject matter, is utterly infectious. I challenge anyone to listen to one of their series of podcasts and not be hooked by the end.

[@thejoin4687]

It's a sign of their quality that they'll sell me on a topic I'Ve never found interesting (Custer's Last Stand, for example).

[@asdfghj123313]

​@@thejoin4687phenomenal series!

[@markus6664]

.. so much knowledge on display, and the dry wit, its very entertaining .. and I've still got about 300 episodes to listen to..

[@thejoin4687]

@@markus6664 Tom's rendition of Don't Cry For Me Argentina encapsulates it all ;)

[@Dbdbe1]

Well I'm one. Can't stand Sandbrook

[@kieranb7582]

The rest of history podcast is a fantastic podcast. Whilst I disagree with the title of this, Dom and Tom are well worth the time, great chemistry.

[@Smudgeroon74]

@kieranb7582 so you reckon that Great Britain were better off going into World War 1.. may I ask why?

[@Chadhogan111]

You'd rather an entire generation of young British men be fed into meat grinder of WW1?

[@NPA1001]

The Rest is History has become my favourite podcast.. the only positive thing that came out of lockdown

[@johnwakley7165]

You ought to give We Have Ways of Making You Talk a listen, a ww2 podcast with Al Murray and James Holland, great stuff 👍

[@martinaaron609]

Part of the success of the superb Rest Is History podcast must surely be because both Dominic and Tom have such nice voices to listen to (which is very much not the case with this interviewer!)

[@Rory626]

He sounds like a toddler doesn't he? 😂

[@minnyh]

Brilliant interview - relaxed and non-interruptive - 10/10

[@WorshipinIdols]

I have to listen to this pod cast right away. I am a huge history buff and I have never even heard of it.

[@piccalillipit9211]

OH its brilliant

[@Dude0000]

I’ve just found it quite recently and it is very good. The good thing about finding it late is having a large catalogue to choose from, already.

[@saphy45-uu8rd]

The Rest is History is really excellent. You will enjoy it I am sure.

[@stevengarside]

Even though both Sandbrook and Holland are right-leaning, and I am anything but, I absolutely love their podcast. They are just fabulous together. Sandbrook especially, is so engaging. Warm, witty and generous. And a wonderful voice. I especially love his stuff on post 1945 Britain, his forte. The episode on Jeremy Thorpe was gold.

[@LarryLoudini]

Agree with that for Sandbrook but Holland’s always come across to me as more leftwing (Irish so familiar but not 100% au fait with British political divide). That said, I do love the in-jokes about Dominic being a noted leftwing intellectual 😅

[@eddiel7635]

@@LarryLoudini I believe Holland is just left of centre and Sandbrook just to the right but I suspect they have more that they agree on than disagree.

[@Sean-p3o]

You must be pretty far on the left if you think Holland is right wing

[@rossisempre86]

Tom just seems your typical centrist establishment liberal. Dominic always came across as a hard right, pro-Thatcherite ideologue. Seeing his Daily Mail column rants confirmed it. Tom just doesn’t let personal political prejudices get in the way of the history like Sandbrook does.

[@ulrikjensen6841]

Why are you not right wing? It's the only thing to be, bc "progress" is worn out and the only thing left is: CORRECTIONS!

[@tulliusagrippa5752]

Dominic and Tom have unique chemistry and charm. Their repartee and humour are what have made them popular. Well done, lads! I’m a devoted fan boy! And I have also learned so very much from you!

[@therighthonsirdoug]

Funnily enough to me, having never seen him before, unusually he looks pretty much how I expected him to!

[@matthewkeating5963]

From Australia, I love "The rest is history "😊

[@TheTrueObelus]

None of the countries involved should have entered the first world war. It was all around a bad idea.

[@g3523jaen]

True. Austria probably belived it would just be a small war in the balkans.

[@lukedaniels7750]

It is a very interesting idea that he puts forward. The modern outcome is impossible to predict but if the Central Powers had won, then no great depression for Germany in the 20's, (at least not to the extent of what happened) and thus no rise to power of the Nazis and thus no WWII. WWi and WWII both cost Great Britain a large amount of money, which took a long time to pay off. But if no WWI or WWII then colonialism might not have come to an end so quickly. The modern world might be very different.

[@cricketerfrench7501]

It depends on your definition of "should have". Britain might have been better off, but had brokered the treaty founding Belgium as a neutral country - the err Treaty of London. The Germans not only in the Kaiser's words believed Britain would not go to war "because of a scrap of paper", but also really did behave badly shooting civilians. Also if we look at the probable outcome in the case of a central powers victory; they make the Treaty of Versailles look generous.

[@curtklebaum]

huge fan of TRIH. Glad to see and hear this interview, thanks. Yeah, you rock Dominic!

[@DavidCreedon]

Already aware of Dom, but this is the first time I’ve come across Matt (very smart, congenial guy). Gotta say that TRIH is my fave podcast, one of the few worth listening to.

[@Sean-p3o]

"I think a curse should rest on me - because I love this war. I know it's smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment - and yet - I can't help it - I enjoy every second of it." - Winston Churchill The Great War for Civilisation, I didn’t believe in it then and I believe in it less so now JRR Tolkien circa 1960s Personally I’m with Tolkien

[@Joe-og6br]

Interesting podcast. The broad range of subjects is enjoyable.

[@exquisitecandy2684]

LOVE the two sided writing method of the interviewee. Going to check the podcast. ExPat in Canada 🇨🇦

[@GafferBob]

From a Yank in Virginia,Thanks for introducing me to Dominic,definitely not Toynbee. 😁

[@Formally-known-Prince-Andrew]

The school curriculum is horrendous. I'm 35 left the education system 19 years ago and pretty my my first lesson on history in primary till my last in secondary it was 90% about the evacuations. How boring!

[@timwright4676]

The Rest is History is fantastic - love Tom & Dom!

[@frederickschwarz246]

"bits of old pots" - a BRILLIANT end to a tour de force interview!

[@carlsmith8815]

Having lived in a Viennese rented pre 1914 apartment . I can first of all say yes they are wonderful , however Vienna is not necessarily Austria.. Imperial Vienna was a conscious creation with its monumental apartment blocks. It was a way to house the new imperial governmental apparatus and the rising middle class. It was modelled on Paris. The suburbs and small town ( where l used to teach ) is far more like Britain with people aspiring to owner occupied houses set in gardens . Home ownership is a desirable in most European countries , if decided less in Germany but an established given in the Angloshphere.

[@stevo728822]

Having visited the battlefield of the Somme, I agree that the UK entering WW1 was a pointless loss of life. So many men fighting over muddy French farmer's fields. There was nothing in it for the UK. Should have let the Germans and French repeat the war of 1870. Left alone, it would have been over by Christmas.

[@stacyscott5104]

As a “Yank” I agree. We should have stayed out of the First World War also.

[@frederickschwarz246]

Ahhh Professor Sandbrook is the tip of the the speer - in the Vangaurd, of the highest tradition of British scholasticism. Top shelf!! He & Professor Holland help KEEP ME SHARP post graduation 🤗🌎🙏💯

[@859902]

The benefit of hindsight makes it obvious Britain ought to have stayed out but even without that it was sufficiently clear that her essential interests did not require supporting France

[@ilokivi]

The Belgian government would not have appreciated reneging on a treaty obligation to guarantee its sovereignty, as Edward Grey recognised in 1914. He also was aware that other states were watching closely, to see whether the UK would behave honourably or selfishly. Yet still lessons fail to be learned.

[@Smudgeroon74]

Did you know that when it came to ending the war, Germany were deceived by United States secretary of state Robert Lansing. He demanded reparations from Germany for the Allies, which totally contradicted president Wilsons 14 point peace plan devised in early 1918...

[@Chris-mf1rm]

What, with the increase in the size of the Empire that it brought and all the oil?!!

[@emjackson2289]

What's odd about World War One is, in many ways, it was more global than World War 2. Interesting proposition, not to enter the War, but it would have raised many other questions that politicians may have not wanted to answer: Ireland, votes for women, Imperial Germany likely obtaining resources in strategically important areas of the World, the Ottoman's coming out on the winning side & thus cementing control of Arabia forever.

[@johndavenport8843]

History is critical, and The Rest is History is the best podcast. Dominic and Tom are simply great.

[@piccalillipit9211]

*IVE JUST READ - THE ROAD TO WIGAN PIER* definatly people should read it - written about life in the north of Britain in 1935, and honestly it is SO much like life today. The differences, no cola dust, hot running water, indoor toilets - apart from that its identical. Even in 1935 we knew that processed food was bad for poor people...!!!

[@Chris-mf1rm]

Misleading title. Didn’t discuss one reason why Britain shouldn’t have entered WWI.

[@rogerbourke5570]

As a fellow-historian, all I can say about "Dom" (Yes, that's what we call him) and his "friend" Tom is that the rumours about them are not true.

[@russellj.collerjr.5547]

. "friend" ...as in "long-time companion" ? . We, Americans, assume all the English are a bit strange anyway. .

[@wzywg]

Imagine these two as your history teachers, leading classes together by narrating hugely significant global events through the most interesting asides. I'd go back to school for that.

[@davew4998]

Well that's funny; I just turned off Neil Oliver talking about Stone Henge to listen to you Dominic.

[@davidgatheral792]

Dominic is excellent. I can even overlook his writing for the Daily Mail.

[@TheLiverpolitan]

Without doubt the worst decision Britain ever made, we still haven't recovered x

[@johanswede8200]

Every minute there are children born being intelligent and curious...

[@misomiso8228]

Is there a link to a podcast where he talks about his WW1 views? Would be interesting to listen to.

[@joannamoore4477]

I love Dominic

[@davidrodgersNJ]

Well, the first question was how the guest felt being a "historian pin-up" or something, so I start jumping ahead to find his argument of why Britain never should of entered ww1, and I get to the end and is it really not there? Wow....:/

[@tedtalksrock]

12:09 Where the history starts.

[@tombrydson781]

It was not our war we should not got involved

[@GarySanchez-ro5zm]

Captain Hindsight to save the day

[@justineroberts2645]

Hahaha I came here from.a search to find images of Tom and Dominic as I realised I have no clue what they look like, as the interviewer suggests here, and also expected them to be older, as per Dominic's answer 😅

[@willhovell9019]

Entertaining to hear Sandbrook, part of the trio of right wing historians, with Starkey and Ferguson, well informed researchers of their respective eras. Now peddling hyper partisan views of the present and recent past.

[@seanlander9321]

Couldn’t agree more. Besides the completely thankless task of rescuing France and Belgium, the French have never repaid their war loans to Treasury. Not a penny paid since 1931 and the debt is now over a trillion pounds and doubling every 14.5 years.

[@KKTR3]

If that is the case why are we paying millions to them over the boats ?

[@seanlander9321]

@@KKTR3 Because Parliament is stacked with cowards who prefer to take more from their own instead of collecting debts from foreigners.

[@missk1942]

​@@KKTR3but didnt the French deposit gold in the Bank of England?

[@KKTR3]

@@missk1942 didn’t they send gun boats to New York for gold

[@missk1942]

@@KKTR3 i know Britain sent gold to the States and Canada I think gor safe keeping, maybe the French gold was part of that?

[@philipebbrell2793]

WW1 saved a Civil War in Ireland in 1914, if Home Rule bill had been implemented.

[@arkdeniz]

That is like saying that cutting your leg off will save you from a sprained ankle.

[@AlunThomas-mp5qo]

It still happened in 1920 so it was only delayed by six years.

[@ClaberUK]

Britain was dragged into WW1 by a naval treaty with France. But if Britain hadnt entered the war and Germany and the Axis powers had swept across Europe, they would have more then likely controlled the channel and the Mediterranean. It would have meant that British interest in the far east would have been exposed and difficult to control. It could have lead to a lot of the middle east and Asia under the Empire being attacked. It would have also meant that Britain could have been exposed to naval blockades and its European commerce being massively effected. The thought that Prussian generals had wanted to attack Russia for decades and the Kaiser was jealous of the Royal navy. and after the Franco Prussian war the Germans/Prussians were confident they could sweep across Europe using the Von Schlieffen plan, which had been designed almost a decade earlier. European War was inevitable as the Prussians had been eager, the quicker they could start the war the quicker it would be over. So yes the British had to get involved, just had they had done to prevent Napoleon and the French controlling Europe.

[@Dude0000]

You’re basing all that on the assumption that we would have still had an antagonistic relationship with the Central Powers.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

The Germans are not the bloody nazis for goodness sake.

[@KKTR3]

@@johnnotrealname8168who were then the Buddhists?

[@thejoin4687]

@@KKTR3 You mean "who were they *zen*"

[@jamesryan82]

Hits the nail on the head here - history has in many ways been lost to academia, when everyone owns it. TRIH is bringing history back to the people

[@kevindocherty7081]

He's right

[@michaelmazowiecki9195]

Britain or England always was opposed to whoever tried to dominate and control the Low Countries, be it the French, Spanish, French or Germans, as far back as Tudor times. Thus applied just as much in WW1 and WW2.

[@77roadhog]

Misleading video title

[@Smudgeroon74]

Ian McGregor was yet another central character in the miners strikes in 1984.. not near as much tv exposure as Arthur Scargill or Neil Kinnock...

[@pupwizard3888]

You could actually turn this question on its head. Britain could have PREVENTED the First World War One by simply siding with Austria=Hungary and Germany against Serbia. Serbia committed regicide in the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand AND his wife Sophie on their WEDDING ANNIVERSARY. There is absolutely no question that the Serbian government was directly involved in supplying and funding the Black Hand. If Britain had come down hard right then and there against Serbia, it is highly unlikely that Russia would have been tempted into supporting the Serbs. The First World War would never have happened and all of the catastrophic things that came later (ie. COMMUNISM). Britain would have retained her Empire and the world would likely be a better place today.

[@cricketerfrench7501]

Britain went to war due to a treaty obligation to Belgium, not because of Serbia, oh and the Serbs agreed to the first set of Austrian demands, so the Hapsburgs came back with even more demands so I think they were set on war. Then Russia, then Germany, then France, then Britain.... oh and USA.

[@charlespirate1]

Why isnt explained at all. He states the opinion and then the presenter goes off on an anecdote about his holiday 🤦‍♂️

[@hugolindum7728]

The other paper is the Daily Mail.

[@859902]

Fascinating topic among all alternative histories

[@annakimborahpa]

Since a victorious Britain was heavily involved in the creation of Belgium as a buffer state after the Napoleonic Wars, wasn't it obligated by treaty to defend it if attacked, only this time when Belgium was invaded by a former ally at the beginning of World War I?

[@kilianklaiber6367]

If you cannot write about history without having a dog in the fight, then the history of the second world war hasn't been written. This war has been turned into a sacred religion, which no one is allowed to question.

[@kilianklaiber6367]

if you have a dog in the fight... sorry, but I think my point is clear.

[@davidevans6758]

We should have allowed the Boers win, in the natal free state, then the quality of British Marksmanship would still have been lousy in 1914. Then the old comtempables wouldn't have dragged the British Army into 4 years of trench warfare. And the losses of 750,0000 commonwealth died by late 1918. And Captian Edmund Blackadder, wouldn't have been offside at that Christmas truce in No man's land

[@davebolowski7925]

… “and quite rightly…” Yup👍

[@maxbelcourt7973]

Can't not notice the that the mic looks like a match and the background has the strike stip.

[@Lokster71]

Britain might of been 'better off' not taking part in World War One but there isn't a British government that would allow one European state to control the Channel ports. Or, more generally, for one European state to dominate the continent. The idea that we could have stayed out of it is wishful thinking.

[@rhysnichols8608]

Nothing here is really very relevant to the title.

[@frederickschwarz246]

Professor Sandbrook is empirical Proof that Smart is Sexy

[@samargles]

We’re hungry for it DOMINIC HUNGRY

[@tomwhite7983]

I see we have a Basil Liddel Hart fan.

[@patscott8612]

Britain doesn't enter the war it was touch and go until the Americans came in. Lack of Empire troops could have tipped the balance. A bellicose militarisitic Germany can then start increasing its naval might and taking french possessions in a Treaty and vying for control of the trading sea lanes. Just my take.

[@jaycarl4486]

The reason the British became involved in WWI is because of Sir Halford John Mackinder...A rabbit hole you probably don't want to go down (hint: the world island, geographical pivot area a.k.a. the Heartland). Think of it this way: There were four great empires prior to WWI (Great Britain, Germany, Russia and the Ottoman). At the end of the war only one remained...Great Britain. And the GB central bankers became VERY wealthy.

[@eddiel7635]

Germany wasn’t a great empire, it was becoming a great continental power. I’d argue that the US was a great empire though.

[@eddiel7635]

What exactly is a central banker by the way 😅

[@camslumlord]

I agree. The US certainly should have stayed out!

[@KKTR3]

Since the nuke boom was first heard - any one with an ounce of understanding would change nothing about history,

[@bhbr-xb6po]

Never suspected Niall Ferguson to be a Marxist

[@Porto-m5w]

So you are saying that in 1914 we should have let Belgium and Northern France (and ports) become under German control. With no consequences for the UK re trade etc ? Absurd.

[@timhill9189]

Yes and remember that for a while the Central Powers had won the war in the East gaining 1 m sq km of land. If the same had happened in the West (presumably earlier), how would that have helped the UK or anyone else?

[@drstrangelove4998]

The Germans weren’t interested in ‘occupying’ France any more than they did when they won the Franco-Prussian war. France was allied to Russia and when Russia mobilised against Germany, Germany was forced to mobilise itself and had to invade France, who had just declared war on them, to prevent a war on two fronts. Belgium likewise was simply marched through to France. They had no option to avoid the massive French fortifications. They had no interest in Belgium otherwise. Nor their British ‘cousins.’ Britain was allied to France and simply followed France and declared war on Germany.

[@stephenclarke2206]

There was a treaty with Belgium Britain was obliged to honour & wouldn't war with Germany have been inevitable at some point given that they were building their Navy to rival ours? Had Britain not gone to war allied to France & Russia in 1914 it would have been with a European superpower years later where the odds were more stacked in Germany's favour. Britain's WW1 losses were terrible but not nearly as bad as France or Germany's

[@ollie1984a]

Germany had already given up trying to rival our navy prior to 1914. Germany were banking on us not getting involved when they planned to invade France. Germany was looking east, not west. They were not a threat to Britain

[@stephenclarke2206]

@@ollie1984a They were if they took the Channel Ports the Schlieffen Plan had been around for quite a long time in 1914 & France was allied to Russia so a war in the west was inevitable

[@td2456]

Hot take

[@trevormillar1576]

The entire Tory party points and laughs at Gove and calls him "Oiky".

[@simonclarke2939]

Archaeology is about people too, or should be. It is possible to explore the human experience through objects, just takes more skill. I must admit that the Roman period is my favourite because it allows a rich artefact and architectural record to be embellished with the evidence of inscriptions and graffiti, but archaeology does have some key advantages over document led investigation of the past, principally that everyone gets a voice - women, slaves, executed prisoners, children etc. History tends to be written by the winners, white middle aged and elderly men!

[@robertmiller2173]

I think you are correct! Yes Keep the British Empire out of WW1. The Central Powers would have dealt to Russia and France etc.

[@philipritson8821]

The British Empire was never going to survive what became the American century.

[@basehead617]

why does Matt Chorley sound a bit like Jonathan Ross? Is that a dialect? Almost sounds like a speech impediment (W for R)

[@pablodelnorte9746]

It is a speech impediment. Woss is from East London. Chorley is from the West Country I think so it's surprising they sound similar

[@Bobmudu35UK]

I love their podcast more than I loathe the hypocritical Gary Lineker.

[@stephenwise2735]

Yes the car!

[@degaulle30]

It's a good interview, but he doesn't explain why he thinks Britain should have stayed out of WW1. Just in case you were hanging on that

[@tedtalksrock]

10:20 Tony Blair Was definitely the “showman/charlatan”!

[@flyovrcntry6425]

Nor the US.

[@jebwatch4433]

Almost nothing is said about the topic of whether or not Britain should have entered the First World War during the 21 minutes of the interview, maybe 30 sec to 1 minute, and mostly as a sort of dismissive joke.

[@bgt54rfvcde32wsxzaq1]

News Flash! Human beings created Stone Henge!

[@krisinsaigon]

I've always thought the same thing, that we should have never entered WW1, and that it would have been better for everyone if the Kaiser had just taken Paris in 1914. They could have won as well, they didn't properly implement the schlieffen plan, that could have worked, or they could have held a defensive position against the French, not invaded Belgium, and focused on quickly knocking Russia out first. All those lives lost

[@kenstrumpf909]

I wonder if the interest in history podcasts such as this comes from the fact that history today is so badly taught and so politically slanted. That there is a great hunger among young people to find out what really happened.

[@Chris_from_yealand]

Also TV channels have mostly given up commissioning documentaries so podcasts have filled the gap. They can often go deeper on a subject, focus on a topic that would not be made into and expensive tv doc, and they're more agile so they can quickly cover an interesting topic without a time lag of a few months.

[@mike5d1]

This is only 110 years late. Why dwell on things that can't be changed?

[@namei8967]

If so, then why did UK enter ww2?

[@charlesburgoyne-probyn6044]

Why did we do this that or the other

[@LordMountararat]

So, Mr Sandbrook.....still think that Starmer is a reassuring presence?

[@philipritson8821]

Dr Sandbrook. He must have a PhD.

[@MarkAlonsberg]

9/10

[@chrisyoung2179]

Maybe not just the first one..

[@phillipsugwas]

And here we all are saying," Grandmother, who is that person in the old army uniform in that silver framed photograph ? My Dear, your Grandfather's uncle Edmund. He wanted to become a doctor when the war ended. He died on the 10th of November 1918."

[@alexratzloff894]

HE'S WRONG!!!

[@TheChiconspiracy]

About what exactly?

[@seanmoran2743]

@@TheChiconspiracypossibly a bot and a narcissist

[@matthewburns7989]

LIAR!

[@frederickschwarz246]

Irrespective of what his wife might say

[@kicka11]

I never imagined him bald, I’ll be honest.

[@eddiel7635]

I never imagine myself bald but unfortunately I am

[@RonJohnstone-yq5fw]

Why the speech impediment?

[@cliveclerkenville2637]

YES YES YES and 50 million died because we did.

[@geertdecoster5301]

Reinventing Columbus's egg 🙄

[@bramhallbill]

feeble answer on why we should not have entered ww1 but nice podcast nevertheless