Liszt: Vallée d'Obermann (Pace, Korstick)

[@AshishXiangyiKumar]

00:00 - Pace 13:49 - Korstick Two wildly divergent recordings. Pace is lyrical & intimate - there is a warmth to his playing that is sustained even in the densest or most violent passages. His playing also has the incredibly rare Rubinstein-like quality of being completely satisfying while also coming across as almost artless - the mechanics of the interpretation are strangely subterranean. There are so many lovely moments in this, often generated from the tiniest gestures: at 10:38 (m.175), the non-literal way in which the accompaniment triplets are played (just a smidge shorter than their notated duration); or the arpeggiation at 11:10 (m.180). Also worth mentioning that the phrasing throughout is consistently excellent (just listen to how the opening line in shaped). Korstick’s interpretation is something of an antipode to Pace’s - a titanic, even orchestral progression from despair to joy. Contrasts are played up - the slow sections are slightly slower than with Pace, but the fast sections are significantly faster. The dynamic/textural control is jaw-dropping: a huge crescendo can suddenly swell up out of nowhere (20:24, m.90), but even consistently loud passages are never less than thrilling (see the tension of the repeated chords at 26:48, or the LH voicing at 26:48). Korstick also has a gift for adding variety to otherwise static textures: at 22:06 (m.121) he accentuates the start of the tremolo to underscore a harmonic shift, and at 22:10 (m.123) there is a magical drop in the LH dynamic to prepare for the coming crescendo.

[@juananramos2807]

Have you heard Volodos’?

[@AshishXiangyiKumar]

@@juananramos2807 Yes. I didn't like it (or his recording of the Dante Sonata).

[@juananramos2807]

@@AshishXiangyiKumar wow, I’m curious to know why… specially the dante, I love that recording

[@AshishXiangyiKumar]

@@juananramos2807 Far too much annoying virtuoso fluff. I think Volodos just fundamentally misconceived both works - they’re not showpieces, not by a long shot.

[@AshishXiangyiKumar]

@Brady Dill We must have listened to different recordings then - I was alternately baffled and annoyed by how silly it all was. Did all the extra notes Volodos threw in at the end of the Dante Sonata serve any purpose? It was pretty ugly (not even in an interesting way), and none of it was thematic, as far as I could tell.

[@M.Arsenault]

Here’s an interesting thing related to this piece. In around 1880, one of Liszt’s close friends, Edward Lassen, arranged Vallée d’Obermann for piano, violin, and violoncello. Lassen, having great respect for Liszt, showed him his work to get his approval. Liszt, as an old man, had a different perception of Vallee d’Obermann then when he wrote it, and guided Lassen to make some remarkable modifications to the music. Liszt gave the name “Tristia” to the reworked piece, now numbered S.378c. The piece starts with a 21-bar introduction, or “prelude”, has a different ending to the first section, an added 8-bar transition to the C major section, and most remarkably, the piece ends before the “Recitativo” section, with a rather dark and unsettling ending, quite characteristic of some of Liszt’s late works. Liszt himself described Vallée d’Obermann as a depiction of human loneliness and suffering, and this version of the piece is arguably even more evocative of this. This is because, allegedly, In Liszt’s late years, he refused to hear Vallée d’Obermann in its entirety. Listening to it had apparently once caused him great anguish. He even instructed August Gollerich, a student, secretary, and travel companion of his, to conclude his performance of the piece at the end of the first section, before the part in C major, at measure 75. I find it pretty interesting to see how Liszt perceived Vallée d’Obermann as an old man.

[@kasajizo8963]

That is so depressing

[@williammanning5066]

I was always a bit confused by the ending, as I consider it one of the most triumphant-sounding climaxes I've ever heard, but it's supposed to be based on a rather gloomy book if I understand correctly.

[@justadude641]

This piece caused a great anguish on Liszt because he composed it after the death of his father.

[@JramLisztfan]

Tristia is a really wonderful piece - an interesting note is that Liszt opted for the ossia passage right before the finale instead of the normal text - which is why I think we should play the ossia (also I think it’s better anyway)

[@feeblay8165]

The more i listen to Liszt, more affection i get towards his ideas, melody pacing and harmony. At the start of my music education Liszt represented this kind of hard, show'y music, which you would play in front of someone you would like to impress. And its easy to neglect Liszt' genious with this kind of approach. His pilgrimage pieces were the starting point of my apreciation of him.

[@MasmorraAoE]

18:07 Love the flex of playing that left hand chord without breaking it :D

[@JamesBower-yj6ew]

It's amazing how Liszt manages to transform such simple idea into something extremely dramatic and beautiful.

[@rexy7399]

IMO, this is definitely his greatest Ballade, Legend and Sonata! It is all about the self reconciliation which makes it even more touching.

[@azure5697]

i really like Pace's playing; he's very restrained, and he gives me the impression of someone who doesn't want to fall into desperation, anger, sadness; he's playing the role of a dramatic hero who still fights against his fate but he doesn't want to become prisoner of his own emotions, and tries until the end to stay controlled, rational. very nice

[@cschlums2235]

Seeing Pace get some love is so awesome to see. Such an underrated liszt player

[@hermanbakkekarlsen4461]

So glad you included Korstick's recording of this piece. He has so much to say! His interpretation of this, and especially Les cloches de Genève is for me beyond heaven!

[@Masato_Ota]

Ah, I just picked this piece up yesterday for practice! And now I see this premier coming, it’s like a sign from heaven✨

[@alexeljosh5849]

More like a sign from google that your Consumer Profile works

[@Masato_Ota]

@@alexeljosh5849 hahaha, but I had never mentioned this piece anywhere to anyone, verbally or in-writing. You wouldn't have known it unless you were my neighbor and caught some of my practices😁

[@versiani1318]

oof the use of listlessness for the first part gave me intellectual chills

[@versiani1318]

lisztlessness

[@kronsh2783]

The first 9 notes remind me of an excerpt from Lensky's aria from Tchaikovsky's opera Eugene Onegin.

[@loulou16sable]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that

[@AsrielKujo]

Oh it's Enrico! Amazing to hear his performance here!

[@Barpoint212]

I *love* the Korstick performance: highly dramatic, but never inappropriately so. Thanks for introducing me to a pianist I didn't know! Your commentary on both the piece and the performers is also excellent.

[@gergelykiss]

For anyone interested in a 25 minute in-depth analysis of this work I highly recommend this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/npjCZol7a5yfi6M It really is an amazing piece of research: it details the connection to Senancour's novel, Liszt's subtle references to Schubert's song Der Wanderer, which he transcribed at the same time as the composition of the first version of Vd'O - the A-C-B three-note motif that first appears at the border of bars 1 and 2 is very likely an allusion to Schubert's setting of the words "Wo bist du?" (Where are you?) in the song, there is another quite clear quotation from the Lied later on, there is also a comparison between the fist and second versions of Vd'O. The musical analysis is also eye-opening - it's worth checking out in addition to the wonderful description given here by Ashish.

[@ruramikael]

Yes, the first version is clearly a sonata form, the second one less so.

[@mariosvourliotakis]

This piece is the first Liszt work Ive learnt. I couldnt really understand the piece, especially the first slow part.. That video was truly eye-opening and for everyone learning this piece, every second of that video is going to help you in one way or another.

[@carlose.johansson739]

Wonderful Listz

[@kpokpojiji]

Forgive the obvious comment, but one can only imagine what this piece, so autobiographical, must have sounded in Liszt's hands.

[@giampieroaudino7318]

Fantastico! Sublime!! ❤️

[@cschlums2235]

I recommend all to listen to Nyiregyhazi’s Vallee d’Obermann. It’s not for everyone, but it is a real experience for those who appreciate it.

[@pianomasters3752]

Sure ! Nyiregyhazi's performance is one of a kind, there are some strange passages but also moments of eternity... Claudio Arrau's recording is also one of the best performances of this piece.

[@cschlums2235]

@@pianomasters3752 as strange as it sounds, I’m not crazy about Arraus recording. I feel like its too conservative for such an intimate soul telling work. I prefer Horowitz’s for my go to recording.

[@RachManJohn]

There is no recording greater than Nyiregyhazi's d'Obermann.

[@cschlums2235]

@@RachManJohn you were the one to introduce me to it rachmanjohn

[@RachManJohn]

@@cschlums2235 was I? Hah hah! What an honour, my friend!

[@chrisy367]

YOU'RE ON A ROLL

[@dawlims1334]

11:51

[@ksw7790]

I wish he would upload a liszt piano concerto. I sometimes feel that liszt's piano concerto is too underrated compared to Chopin's piano concerto (especially No. 2). Anyway, I haven't found a perfect liszt piano concerto recording yet, and I'm sure he knows a good recording (most of the recordings were too slow for me or the expression was disappointing).

[@cschlums2235]

theres 2 liszt concerti (also a third but unfinished). my recommended recording is Brendels

[@GUILLOM]

@@cschlums2235 unfinished?

[@cschlums2235]

@@GUILLOM That’s what I was told, could just be misinformation

[@iroveashe]

have you heard zimerman?

[@GICM]

@@cschlums2235 well there's already a complete score video on youtube kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5W1eWeppLV0fdk

[@paulfievet9301]

22:58 anyone knows why he adds c sharps in the octave runs ? It changes the scale quite a bit

[@luxio7916]

He seems to take some interpretive liberties, for example the A# in the left hand at 20:58. Not my favorite recording of this piece.

[@JramLisztfan]

I like Korstick’s recording, but yes it’s perplexing

[@kevinh5349]

Simple soul that I am, that's the first and last time I'll listen to this, um, stuff.

[@kofiLjunggren]

Woop woop!!

[@johnphillips5993]

Hey Ashish, have you ever considered doing chamber music, like string quartets? I really love Schubert String Quartet no.13 in A minor.

[@GICM]

well he _did_ do Schubert's piano trios

[@johnphillips5993]

@@GICM well he *didn’t* do Schubert’s string quartets

[@PieInTheSky9]

What does "Anfang vom Basse sehr stark und sehr accentuirt" mean?

[@bc_7644]

Well google translate can now answer the question from KZbin lol

[@hosseinjavidiniroomand]

Love to Liszt💘🙏🌹

[@bdellovibrioo5242]

Thank you for this wonderful analysis and recording, as always. KZbin is doing something weird with your description though. You reference the key of f sharp minor, but youtube things you are trying to tag the video with a hastag "#m" .

[@JramLisztfan]

15:46, 21:55

[@nihilistlemon1995]

What do you think of Angelich ?

[@KangJyungHoon]

What about Volodos version?

[@jinwoobae7555]

Where is ervin Nyiregyhazi

[@clarkebynum4623]

A unique performance but not valuable in this circumstance I don’t think? I think every pianist should hear him play, however I don’t think it’s the best example of this amazing piece of music.

[@AshishXiangyiKumar]

Currently buried in Glendale, California

[@CatkhosruShapurrjiFurabji]

@@AshishXiangyiKumar lmao

[@davidlin4230]

Please do Vanished Days by Grieg!!

[@CatkhosruShapurrjiFurabji]

Yaaaaaay

[@antimormon-px1eq]

amen.

[@ehud2311]

Wow

[@Shiver197]

10:10

[@thomasshiraza6376]

11:10

[@음악감상용-r5w]

대가들을 따라하려 한 것 - 재미없다 그렇다면 대가들이 재밌게 나랑 다르게 어떻게 했는가

[@음악감상용-r5w]

왜 내가 쓴 박스는 재미없을까 편견을 버리고 제약 없애기

[@handledav]

d

[@ciararespect4296]

Really bad ending and it was very repetitive in theme

[@WilliamDurrant-ll8xy]

No taste