Living Fossils Are Dead! Long Live Living Fossils

Scientists are looking to end how we categorize living fossils, and in doing so, give the phrase new life.
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Sources:
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
palaeo-electronica.org/conten...
www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...
www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/sc...
www.nationalgeographic.com/sc...
www.nature.com/articles/s4200...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases...
www.sci-news.com/biology/coela...
www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.bbc.com/news/science-envi...
gigascience.biomedcentral.com...
e360.yale.edu/features/peter_...
www.iucnredlist.org/search?qu...
www.nature.com/articles/natur...
theconversation.com/we-scanne...
www.nature.com/articles/s4146...
www.iucnredlist.org/species/3...
Images:
www.istockphoto.com/photo/cro...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/hor...
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fo...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/cro...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/ame...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/gre...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/clo...
www.eurekalert.org/multimedia...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/coe...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/hor...
www.eurekalert.org/multimedia...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/hor...
www.istockphoto.com/photo/sal...

[@SciShow]

SciShow is supported by Brilliant.org. Go to Brilliant.org/SciShow to get 20% off of an annual Premium subscription.

[@melskunk]

Just fyi, your yale source link leads to a 404

[@catloaf9637]

Like i live in Sweden so when u uppload a vid i cant be the first person to comment

[@catloaf9637]

The Times are different

[@pep206]

I feel like a living fossil every time I get out bed.

[@marvalice3455]

You feel like live creature made of stone?

[@pep206]

@@marvalice3455 no, I move like one.

[@fontanai.e9199]

Lmfao damn I can relate to u my bones and joints be sounding like those noisemakers that u spin around

[@tomasfabianserrut466]

Watch this comment get 500 likes

[@JiveDadson]

Happens to me when I can't get out of bed.

[@chesthoIe]

To qualify as an ELF in my book, you gotta have: 1. Pointy ears. 2. +2 to DEX. 3. Enjoys camping.

[@justaviewer5150]

*kidnaps elf*

[@anarchyantz1564]

4. Immune to sleep and charm. 5. Distrust of Dwarves

[@unclekanethetiberiummain1994]

@@anarchyantz1564 This goes into the book.

[@cathpalug1221]

6. Can talk to animals 7. Having magic energy

[@Typhy7]

Don't forget : Arrogant hippies.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

My 13 year old son assures me that I am in fact a living fossil. I would encourage science to continue to use the term. If we stop using the term living fossil my son will need to find a more creative way to describe my character. I don't think that I'm emotionally ready for that.

[@sapphirII]

Is Neel Nand your son? :P kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnqakHt7aKeeoZY&lc=UgyVcOFW8FtNsqSYmO14AaABAg

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

@@sapphirII I've never heard of Neel Nanda before. This Dad joke was one of my own.

[@sapphirII]

@@perceivedvelocity9914 I was just joking since they said their dad was living fossil and you said your son calls you that.

[@jokerjoker007]

My dad’s a living fossil, I even have to dust him off from time to time.

[@zeehighness9310]

🥲😂

[@universalrandomizer405]

I feel you, bro

[@lordgarion514]

Amazon sells dust covers for furniture, zip him up in one and save yourself the work.

[@kettei5408]

I hope that doesn't mean what I think it means...

[@juliaf_]

@@kettei5408 🤢

[@GoingtoHecq]

The genes the ginko has evolved and gained for dealing with stuff reminds a lot of the creatures from microcosm os who also seem to have gained a solution for everything and anything. I guess once you've found the perfect body shape, you just make it stronger and more resilient.

[@devans.5324]

it's more impressive for the ginko because they don't reproduce as fast as microorganisms

[@WolfgangDoW]

Why animals keep evolving into crabs too

[@devans.5324]

@@WolfgangDoW return to monke or evolve to crab

[@LimeyLassen]

like a video game character who's already maxed their good abilities so they just start dumping points into element resistance

[@cecesoclean4591]

that is actually keanu reeves’ motto

[@LiamNI]

6:27 - "for an organism to qualify as an ELF....." It must work for Santa!

[@maxwellvandenberg2977]

So could you say the term "living fossil" is a living fossil? eh? eh?

[@golgarisoul]

🥁

[@gamingchamp6728]

@@golgarisoul 💥

[@the24thcolossusjustchillin39]

Ah science puns

[@MajoraZ]

The video mentions that Crocodiles and Horsehoe crabs have still gone through plenty of genetic changes, so calling them living fossils is a misnomer, but if those genetic changes don't actually result in meaningful physiological changes for the organism and how it operates in a given ecological niche, then does having those changes really matter in regards to refuting the concept of a "Living Fossil"? The point would still stand that in comparsion to a lot of other organisms they've mostly stuck to their existing evolutionary adaptions and niches and haven't shifted in those roles much.

[@electronresonator8882]

it means that scientist categorize an actual living fossil is a dinosaur that goes cryogenic sleep for million of years

[@mozismobile]

As mentioned they've changed to adapt to climate etc, but their external shape is the same. Much as a lot of people these days can digest milk as adults but we still look like shaved monkeys.

[@mozismobile]

The real place to look would be clonal organisms where we are pretty sure some "individual" plants have been around for thousands of years. They have much slower genetic change so if we can find one that's millions of years old we can hope that it's genetically unchanged (but that means asking what exactly an individual is)

[@jakkaljakobie8774]

I agree fundamentally, but there are changes a creature may have undergone that wouldn't have changed the structure that might be significant enough (individually or in aggregate) that it makes a difference. Like, have alligators always had antibiotic blood, or is that a more recent trait? Has the horseshoe crabs eyes changed to adapt to new ocean compositions and temperatures? Again, I fundamentally agree. I think the change in "branding" as it were gives us the opportunity to think about adaptations to "mechanical" changes to otherwise thematically stable environments, along with what Hank mentioned about conservation. I also can't help but think of the scientific and engineering breakthroughs we could have by reinvigorating the public's interest.

[@erikjohnson9223]

I think a lot of genetic changes are random drift, often of "silent" genes (if noncoding DNA is still a gene?), but lots of chemical changes can take place without affecting form. In animals, that may just be the immune system and perhaps what the liver and digestive systems do to detoxify and metabolise new foods and environmental hazards. Plants can't run away, so are chemical weapons factories. The phytochemistry of "primitive" angiosperms like the magnoliads strikes me as more interesting than that of most orchids even though orchids were historically seen as the "most advanced" (based largely on sexual organs, as botany does, but also on species diversity though daisies might outdo orchids there and certainly are more successful in terms of numbers of plants or weight of biomass).

[@SquirrelASMR]

If we put these "living fossils" and their actual fossilized ancestors, would the "living fossils" out compete their ancestors in most cases or not usually. How adapted are they?

[@ianmccourry9337]

If we are considering modern conditions, the modern counterpart will probably out compete the older generation due to the newer one having adaptations to the modern conditions. If the conditions were similar, then it really depends.

[@jozenne0018]

Since all species evolve to meet the needs of the status quo, they do not need to get "better" overall, only fit more effectively. Because of this the competition results would be decided by the environment they are in. If it is better for modern species, then said modern species will survive but may have to continue fighting older fossils with adaptations for the same environment, & same for other situations

[@carlosandleon]

their ancestors aren't necessarily less evolved, just more adapted to conditions then

[@InfinityOrNone]

@@carlosandleon Nope. Evolution happens over time and between generations. Being that ancestral generations are, definitionally, earlier than later generations, they have undergone fewer generations and thus less evolution than their descendants. Ergo, they are inherently less evolved.

[@trippinonfebreeze7198]

The real test is if they could mate with the ancestors

[@shaider1982]

This sounds like a solution to a genetics' version or ship of theseus.

[@crovax1375]

So are you saying that humanity's understanding of the world has been... Evolving?

[@binair0]

😲😲😲😲 👏👏👏👏

[@nusratparveen82]

Yup

[@1TakoyakiStore]

Why was I expecting a story on a newly discovered snail species that uses the process of fossilization to help grow and strengthen its shell and be a literal living fossil?

[@virglibrsaglove]

Or a crab species that uses fossilized shells as it's own.

[@militantpacifist4087]

So basically we need to keep coelacanths alive to get all the Reggies.

[@suryat5785]

Don’t forget the whales

[@ZedaZ80]

The whaaaaales

[@KitsukiiPlays]

Scientists to sharks: you’ve changed, man

[@DynamicUnoTea]

I can give up living fossil, but I still can't give up Pluto....

[@kylehart8829]

The way I've always seen it, representing life as a tree from which branches emerge means that we ultimately are in need of a way to classify which limbs of the tree have branched less, and Living Fossil is a pretty solid way to represent those organisms. A limb that branches less has found a niche and held it for a long time uninterrupted, making it a Living Fossil by this definition.

[@akumaking1]

Well that title is certainly an exercise in wordplay.

[@VigilanteGamer]

If they are almost identical to ancient ancestors, I still think living fossil is an apt name even if they are quite different genetically. It's not a scientific term after all?

[@Trathaal]

“Scientists recently discovered that ‘Living Fossils’ are not, in fact, fossilised remains that are alive. This revelation was surprising, and indicates a possibility that horseshoe crabs are not made of horseshoes, and blue-footed boobies are not breasts with blue feet.”

[@belisarusrex3537]

You get it.

[@scheimong]

I've always thought of "living fossils" as a very generalised and colloquial term, so it's, well, interesting that they're putting in the effort to standardise it... Maybe this is why scientists are fun at parties

[@RobinTheBot]

This seems like a very nuanced debate, and it'll never ever take off in the general public. Focusing conservation efforts on ancient lineages is common sense though, having living creatures similar to ancient ones is an invaluable tool.

[@hannahmore9118]

When Japan entered the modern age and had access to meat instead of mostly fish, their height started to increase. They are taller now. Some changes are improvement in diet.

[@mrlee7641]

What about the Wollemi Pine? Thought to be extinct for some 200 million years, found alive about 20 years ago. Every living tree is genetically identical. Can we at least call these living fossils?

[@gayowulf]

So what I'm hearing as the main takeaway from this video is that we should start referring to fantasy elves as "endangered living fossils".

[@FA-ft9sq]

"Invasive species" will likely be need to be redefined now as well.

[@sebasrou5804]

"They're still directly related to ancient organisms." This is such an inane statement. Find me an organism that isn't directly related to ancient organisms, and I'll congratulate you on creating a revolution in the field of Biology.

[@aisadal2521]

The only living fossil I know of is the nautilus 😄

[@hungvu262]

pronghorn?

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

Crocodiles, horseshoe crabs, and coelacanths.

[@Dragrath1]

@@OtakuUnitedStudio Crocodiles don't count and sci show should be ashamed of themselves The animals that looked like crocodiles 200 million years ago were purely the product of *convergent evolution* Crocodylomorphs rapidly radiated out into diverse ecological niches from terrestrial herbivores to small agile predators of insects and small vertebrates and fully marine adapted pelagic megafauna there is a huge diversity of form and ecology among the clade such that any grouping of croc-like crocodylomorphs will be paraphyletic for excluding the huge diversity of other crocodylomorphs that they lived alongside up until those groups went extinct either in the end cretaceous mas extinction or in the case of the Sebecids, at the end of the Miocene. Basal modern Crocodilians first appear in the fossil record during the Cenomanian stage of the Cretaceous (~95 Ma) and likely diversifying into the modern alligatoroids, gavialoids and crocodyloids before the Campanian stage of the Cretaceous. (~83 Ma) Now if the late cretaceous is sufficiently old to be a living fossil then a lot of other organisms would qualify as well given that modern crocodilians appeared more recently than birds and many angiosperm groups. Of course since they started to rediversify and colonize terrestrial niches in the Cenozoic (which lived as recently as the early Holocene only disappearing alongside the other Australian megafauna soon after the arrival of H. Sapiens) so I don't think they can count even then.

[@bruhman5385]

@@Dragrath1 "Basal modern Crocodilians first appear in the fossil record during the Cenomanian stage of the Cretaceous (~95 Ma)" Seems old enough to be called living fossils to me, but im not a genetician nor a biologist, so my opinion don't really count lmao

[@virglibrsaglove]

@@bruhman5385 I'm with you on that. Seems old enough to me, too. Heck, when I'm out fossil hunting, if it's turned to stone it's a fossil to me, regardless of what time period it is from. 👍

[@KaliFissure]

We are all evolving together. And by all i mean the entire biosphere.

[@Yellowdigigod]

Abandon Monke; Progress to *CRAB*!!!

[@Scribe13013]

Aren't we all living fossils in a way?

[@FloozieOne]

Hey Hank, where did you get that incredible shirt? I kept zoning out into the pattern, losing track of the monologue and having to back up and replay it. I should note that I am easily distracted. None the less, this was a great episode since I've always wondered how you can call a living thing a fossil. Apparently you can't which reassures me that I will not fossilize for a very long time after death despite the evidence of my slowly eroding body.

[@strifera]

I feel like he went out of his way to not say "elf".

[@gleadervideos]

I know! So disappointed over this missed opportunity:(

[@dustinheese]

My Paleontology course last semester used coelacanth and only a few other fishes as "living fossils" 7:40 mentions these. Great video.

[@dennisud]

I loved your History series a few years back and used them in my classroom when teaching American and World History! Thanks, Hank!

[@robertgotschall1246]

Thank you sir, I have often winced at that term.

[@kereiltutt5769]

The titles always get me lol

[@crow9659]

ikr

[@Jimberley123]

Really scraping the barrel with this vid aren't we SciShow! Keep it up though, luckily I'm as boring as you lot and I loved it.

[@outdoorsy01]

Nice content about fossils. We have started looking for fossils on our channel. Jurassic coast is a great place. Love to visit the states

[@eunoiaeniqua3654]

You know you've visited your local natural history museum a lot when you can identify a display from it. The Deinosuchus hatcheri in the beginning is from the NHMU :)

[@user-en9os1or7g]

D•E•A•R

[@seionne85]

The human caused extinction event is super depressing

[@marachime]

please could you add related/sister channels to your channels page? when i can't remember the name of one of the related channels but can remember this one it is very frustrating to not be able to find the link i want anywhere. thanks :)

[@jamesfowley4114]

Isn't the genome a kind of time capsule, that we are just learning how to read?

[@squireltag1000]

Excellent video. Ive learned a lot watching this channel over the last few years. Thanks!

[@ChuckBaggett]

Does the unusual pattern on the speaker's shirt twinkle or glisten when the image is small? Was it picked for that reason on purpose?

[@23skiddsy6]

I like "persistent phenotypes" - not only for alliteration, but it better sums up the situation.

[@michi-strichi]

Really interesting video, love these cutting edge paleo topics

[@aussie405]

Wollemi pines in Australia probably come under this heading, being known by 200 million year old fossils until a couple of groves of them were discovered in 1994. Thankfully the groves were saved from the 2020 bushfires.

[@fluffydevil13]

Those are such cool trees! The San Diego zoo’s safari park is currently working on growing those because the climate is very similar to Australia’s!!

[@bersl2]

While that last one may or may not be a good descriptor of the proposed category, it definitely sounds useful and worthwhile to give a name.

[@flametitan100]

Back up: Ginkgos have evolved resistances to atomic radiation? I am real curious what this protects against and how it works.

[@virglibrsaglove]

I wonder if maybe everything from those ancient time periods were resistant to stuff like that. To survive all the crazy stuff that's happened between then and now. Maybe ginko has had this ability all along. And maybe everything else that has evolved since just missed out on developing that skill. But yeah, it does seem like a highly useful skill to have.

[@undercoverduck]

Reminds me of the video Veritasium did recently on the evolution of bacteria in cell culture labs. Even with an unchanging environment, the bacteria continued evolving ever so slowly. Evolution doesn't appear to be something that even can be stopped.

[@tantzer6113]

Darwin’s notion of “living fossils,” EPI values, & and the distinction between genetic change and changes in appearance are key. I also really appreciate “Breaking Points,” Krystal & Saagar’s new show: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j33UmGeKacikhMk

[@delusionnnnn]

"For an organism to qualify for as an ELF, it has to meet three criteria..." Sorry, you missed the fourth - it has to be "unbelievable". (OH!)

[@lol_iyoutube]

I mean it makes sense since well evolution towards crabs is a thing, so we know they all will be one crabs

[@FloozieOne]

Hex said "I guess once you've found the perfect body shape, you just make it stronger and more resilient." I guess ginkos, crocs, horseshoe crabs and coelacanths live by the motto: If it works don't mess with it.

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

A combination of the 2 processes talked about neat the end would probably be helpful

[@FranciscaPires]

i had no idea the gingko was in danger 😱 it is so common as an ornamental tree in parks and stuff.. i also lost my mind and bought a tiny one for my balcony 😬😂

[@user-en9os1or7g]

D•E•A•R

[@MeatyZeeg]

I think the Tuatara is an endangered living fossil

[@RealUlrichLeland]

Idk why but I really liked this sci show video in particular

[@zeynaviegas]

this title is a mouthful and I laughed so much at it

[@timrobertson8436]

My nominee for an ELF would be the Meta sequoia in China (aka Dawn Redwood) which was discovered around 1946 and has a fascinating history as a remnant of of ancient forests that loved in Siberia millions of years ago when the climate was much warmer. I think it deserves a video of its own. It is now a popular tree to plant in many places around the world.

[@someone2973]

Older taxonomic groups can sometimes be paraphyletic, and paraphyletic groups and in paraphyletic groups some of the members will be more closely related to organisms outside the group than other members inside the group.

[@nicoleonfeels]

I wish I was this animated with my hands when I talk… v attention grabbing indeed 🤌🏽

[@jaynehorn151]

Very informative

[@Boy-os6zu]

The only living fossil now recognised is Queen Elizabeth

[@tanjagerzen]

Id love to see a video on living fossils

[@jek__]

usb c appears to be unchanging, but actually its changing just as much as usb always has, its just that the constraints of the time limit its shape from changing with it

[@TheZiiFamily]

“Fossils are dead long live fossils” what?

[@refindoazhar1507]

It's coming from the term "the king is dead, long live the king" which simultaneously announce the death of the old king and the accession of a new one. In this case, it's the denouncement of the term "living fossil" while simultaneously showing us some of the possible way to make the term usable again.

[@TheZiiFamily]

@@refindoazhar1507 ohhh cool

[@zomfgeclipse]

That title was a trip

[@naverilllang]

Counterpoint about the genome changes: it could be that the vast majority of that change is benign or has only very small effects. A lineage of organisms maintaining their same shape for millions of years shows that ot is extremely well suited to its environment, and represents the closest thing to an optimal organism for its niche. Crocodiles for example haven't changed much because there is little to improve on. Could a better large aquatic stealth hunter be made than a crocodile? Maybe. Could it be made _from_ a crocodile? Seems not, or else crocodiles would have changed much more. So the crocodile family has peaked. The current members represent the best that they can do in the current conditions.

[@TheRockingChar]

62 new jeans? That's one fashionable fish!

[@jamesharmer9293]

So creatures that live forever are called ELF's ? Do they have to have pointy ears as well ?

[@paulbennett772]

I find it horrifying that the gingko is threatened

[@niaschim]

If I were an immortal, I'd be an eternally youthful&exhuberant immortal. W/ Wolverine from Xmen_'s regeneration powers. Then over millions of years I'd be adopted into the families of my distant cousins, over and over again, and be an actual living fossil all on my own some day 😕🙃❤👍🙂

[@francoislacombe9071]

Real living fossils would be things like those 45 million year old bacteria spores, recovered from amber and successfully revived after all this time.

[@bicicogito989]

I agree with you on that. Their genetic material has not undergone change while in the stasis of amber entombment. However, some genetic damage may have occurred through radiation and slow chemical degradation, et.al.

[@fartzinwind]

Most sharks for sure don't fit under living fossil, but what about the ones that still have the older gill set? I think it's 5.. 6? whatever, the ones that have an extra on each side, like ice ones.

[@thomasmills3934]

What have the changes in the horseshoe crabs genetics actually changed about the horseshoe crab...?

[@Dr_Mario2007]

Personally, I think Cyanobacteria would qualify as a living fossil, even though they already have evolved a lot, they still walk and talk like their direct, distant ancestors that popped up around the end of Hadean era. It's still mind-blowing that they have around for four billion years (and yes, directly responsible for the first ever extinction and ice age, both of which they managed to survive), and for which they are still responsible for the air we breathe now.

[@MadDoofer]

Judging by looks alone isn't enough?! I never knew

[@RubyDoobieScoo]

Surprised the Tuatara wasn't mentioned.

[@user-en9os1or7g]

D•E•A•R

[@missseaweed2462]

Ah, yes, I was waiting for you to mention the coelacanth!

[@edwardfletcher7790]

My theory about living fossils is that they have no pressure to physically evolve. They've reached such a highly adapted form to deal with their environment, they have no further need to change.

[@kettei5408]

Is it just me, or is the ELF acronym very fitting?

[@christianbriody1566]

I’m too high to be reading this title lmaoooo

[@kitchengun1175]

legend has it that a new living fossil is the average guy getting home from work on a monday

[@Talpham]

Really love this channel, looking for a collab haha?

[@Rouverius]

December 2021: The global cost of Ginkgo lumber continues to skyrocket as dads around the world build... "ELF into a Shelf"

[@jeremiahmullikin]

Hopefully one day those coelacanths will evolve into coelacans.

[@manu7669]

* mention of Spain: exists * Me, immediately: OLEEEEEEE ESPAÑITA Great vid!

[@vaszgul736]

I had a stronk trying to read this video title

[@normajohnson4811]

DNA changes don 't necessarily mean changes in proteins or anything else. They're only important when they affect how the organism fits into its ecological niche. Modern and ancient horseshoe crabs might be functionally similar despite different DNAs.

[@michealwestfall8544]

It's like cars, it might be a Mustang, but what's under the hood is different from 30 years ago.

[@LuisAldamiz]

How do they know their genomes have changed if you can't get DNA from a true fossil (stone replaced organic matter, only the shapes were preserved). I browsed some of the papers and articles referenced and I really don't see how they can conclude that they follow "normal" or close to normal evolutionary rates, if so, they must be certainly somehow confined to retain a basic phenotype, what is all kinds of weird considering how othe branches evolve phenotype variations at much faster rate (just think whales from land mammals, or slender bipedal humans out of robust mostly quadripedal apes, or tail-less and toothless birds out of dinosaurs, etc.) I was watching yesterday a video on how the most extensive evolutionary experiment (on bacteria) produced a quasi-plateau: organisms never really stop mutating/evolving but they dramatically slow down their rate of evolution when they reach a near-optimal adaptation to their niche.

[@EnigmaBean]

I like the shirt hank

[@lhadzyan7300]

the main difference on the Living Fossil version of the Spanish environmentalists and the group of non-Spanish taxonomists relies that one is focused on conservation issues and the other just involves its evolutionary background non matter if they´re endangered or not. One is a very focused view and the other is a broader sense, I like more the one involving the evolutionary reference than the environmental one which only might serve just for conservacy importance issues.

[@hairytick7882]

Off-topic but if you minimize the video Hank's shirt looks like it is covered in sequins

[@booJay]

Not sure why sharks and rays are considered living fossils considering primitive sharks produced bone (doi: 10.1111/j.1469-7580.2007.00723.x) and by current definition, as cartilaginous fish, they don't (or do they?.....TBD).

[@user-en9os1or7g]

D•E•A•R

[@-RedSerpent-]

so here's a scientific question would a modern-day living fossil be able to breed with its ancient ancestor, would the offspring (if possible to make) be healthy and/or be able to reproduce itself as many cross breeds lose the ability to breed. If someone that has an answer or and idea please place a comment.

[@jorat8160]

If they both had the same amount of sex chromosomes I’d imagine it’d be possible for them to interbreed.

[@WolfgangDoW]

@@jorat8160 same amount of ALL chromosomes

[@XofHope]

I think that'd be sort of the final confirmation on either the modern version of a species has indeed barely suffered modifications in relation to its older version. If they can interbreed and produce perfectly viable offspring that can go on propagating the species on their own, then they are indeed genetically very close. Imo, in that case, we can safely call the modern members of the species living fossils. However, it can get more complex than that, as it's perfectly possible for different species to interbreed and produce viable descendents capable of the same, plants do it often enough.

[@graysonsmith7031]

I viewed living fossils as organisms that admittedly look similar, but also have occupied the same niche for a very long time with limited additional species that have branched off, keeping the same hunting style, behavior, and traits. Dragonfly's as a whole have too many species but crocodiles are more limited. Sharks probably wouldn't fit either except specific species that have lasted a really long time. But that's not my field.

[@777gpower]

Finally we can look for ELFs without sounding absolutely crazy. I wonder how many are in Iceland?