Living Off Grid: Water Planning For Your Off Grid Homestead

[@Danny_Boel]

wow, you even got your own waterfall, how cool is that!

[@yamielaw]

You are right!!!! Water is so important!!!!

[@johngritman4840]

Hi Starry, Been there, done that! My best friend had a cabin on a lake. Indoor plumbing consisted of a toilet, a farm style kitchen seat and outside was the shower. The water came from a natural artesian well up the hill with about 80' elevation from the house and a 2" buried plastic pipe that came to the house. So when it came time to replace the plumbing, the job looked simple. Turn off the big pipe, cut everything loose, cut copper to length and solder it together. The night before we arrived my friend had done just that; everything was dry fitted and ready to be soldered. We had the solder and propane BUT he forgot the flux. Oh well just get the pipes hotter. HaHa! We did what he wanted and then I told his wife to just turn the water on. Well, I was standing precisely in front of the distribution manifold and then the whole thing blew apart. A 2" column 80' high of 53 degree water just below the belt line. What can you do, we were all doubled up in laughter! A fellow next door heard me yelp and all the raucous laughter and came over with a six pack of beer to join the party. Fortunately he had flux. But taking a shower was still an adventure with such cold water!

[@montanaannie1253]

As your husband says "anybody can do this" I'm thinking...nope, not anybody, not me......How I wish I could get my husband to wake up!!

[@benwilliams3539]

what a magical little spring, gorgeous.

[@StarryHilder]

+Ben Williams It is isnt it!!

[@clarencemuhammad3630]

I like your videos. Being self sufficient should be what each person should strive for. I am a disabled vet It has simply meant that my striving just changed. I still strive to be the best I can be.

[@StarryHilder]

Thanks for serving OUR COUNTRY BROTHER!!!!!! Amen to what you just said!!!! Bless you

[@jurgenritzhaupt5562]

Starry, did you ever think about using your grey water to water plants next to your house. It's just a thought. You could even use the overflow to go through a patch of cat tails to a pond and maybe throw some fish into it. I mean any gallon of water you save has got to be a bonus.

[@subbstevie]

You are a true inspiration,

[@StarryHilder]

+Steve Nash Well that was so nice of you! Thank you and God Bless

[@subbstevie]

Starry Hilder well its not easy to plan off grid as the weather will always find a way to mess things up,i lived on a 300 acre cattle ranch and lived in a travel trailer for 3 years,built a tiny home with the help of some professional friends,loved it, out in the country,peacefull, i miss it alot,i was a paramedic for 30 years and saw alot of life and death, and loved the country to de-stress at...:)

[@TheJwb7111]

Awesome video!!! Definitely will take this into consideration when I get around to building my own homestead! Thanks

[@StarryHilder]

TheJwb7111 hope it helps for your future place!!

[@dpower02]

Just a thought, if you were to have a small upstream container (5 gallon) and the pipe was connected directly from the container to the house you would have enough pressure, it looks like you are spilling water into your storage tank and then running from your storage tank to the house, so you only have the head available from the level in your concrete tank to the house, if you run the hose directly to the house you will get the elevation pressure from the 5 gallon pail to the elevation of the house. you currently have an air gap at the concrete tank, you need to put a tee in the pipe that feeds the concrete tank and connect it to the pipe that feeds the house, that will increase pressure as you will see head from the source (5 gallon pail). you could also make a filtration part in the 5 gallon pail. And for rough measure 2 feet of vertical rise will give 1 psi at the bottom. Happy showering!

[@walterbodine5886]

You guys have a really great set up.

[@StarryHilder]

Walter Bodine Thanks..took a lot of work to even get to where we are at...a lot of it wasnot planned..just winging it...pheww im just glad we made it this far!

[@elienewatson7584]

Thank you that was wonderful 👍💐

[@nomore4me286]

Starry I love watching the ideas of u and ur husband. Just wanted to add to hopefully help.. If u reduce the pipe size at the container u will create pressure which can be used for a lot like running a pelton wheel generator

[@tzuamourshihtzu9871]

ME and the wife love these videos! greets from the united sindom

[@StarryHilder]

Kayleigh Doore GREETINGS BACK!!! Not sure where you are though??!!!I've been in the mountains to long! Hope you are enjoying the videos! What interested you to watch them???

[@reggierico]

What a beautiful gift from above! The elk camp that I hunt from in Montana every other year has a wonderful underground spring that produces the cleanest, most beautiful tasting water I've ever drank! They've been using this spring, which runs into the south fork of the White River, since 1959! Keeps food (and beer) nice and cold as well.

[@semanticssimple2053]

Great video, could you set up a manual pump to increase the water pressure? Three benefits, 1 you get water pressure, 2 no electricity 3, you get arms like Arnold. Win win win.

[@StBernardAcres]

Great video.....tons of info, thanks for posting this one. Something I am starting to look seriously into now.

[@JoshuaSmithHomesteader]

Exactly!!! I am in the middle of searching for land to homestead on, my number one priority is a spring or creek for water. Great video, cheers from Ontario (josh) maybe you could pipe the overflow on over to doug and stacy's pond. teehee!

[@StarryHilder]

Yes water is so vital! and the ownership of that water to!! Haha about piping that water over to Doug and stacy's..maybe everyone just needs to move to Idaho!:)

[@blondestrainger]

most likely if you blow air from the low point up to the spring level the rocks will be lifted out of the pipe like an air lift. reversing the flowwith high air pressure and volume should do itpossibly a scuba tank and a regulator of sorts unles you can find a good air compressor. Just a thought from a plumber

[@ambercarl40]

Awesome set up! Thank you for sharing. God bless!

[@mrmagoo9901]

You have an excellent presentation and attention to important details. I'm a new subscriber and have only watch a few of your vids, but have gained a lot of very useful info...thanks.

[@StarryHilder]

mr magoo So glad you find it helpful..I try to get as much info as possible in a short time. We have gained alot of insight from living this life and hope sharing will help others! Thank you and God Bless

[@stevenk1965]

You guys should consider a hydroelectric system. It looks like you have the perfect set up for backup power when the sun isn't out in the winter time. It may not produce a lot of power but it works 24/7 and may be all you need. I've seen others on youtube that get all there electricity from systems like this.

[@StarryHilder]

stevenk1965 WE have considered it! Good thinking!! We just at this point dont need more electricity..even when its cloudy and the bank is low..we seem to be doing well with little use. Maybe if our demands were more...but we are setup pretty much to even run the whole house with zero electricity if need be. A real comfort if a EMP or something bad happens!! BUT good advice for people who are looking to go off grid and using ther water source for power

[@selenabeaulieu2361]

Starry Hilder Starry I just read you were in an accident awoke back I hope you are well and back to normal..❤️❤️❤️

[@arkman8109]

I would always filter and treat water to drink, some things are just to simple to do verses the risk of not doing them. Living off the grid is great, but we know a lot more about simple things that use to kill people way back. Just because you see water coming out of the ground does not mean it is safe to drink, test it. It would not hurt to go uphill and find out what's around or has been around in years past that could be leaching into the ground water.

[@homesteadonomics]

Great channel so far! Very similar interests:) We aren't off grid but are on about 90% rainwater here in the Arizona high desert. Like your spring setup and the pond for extra watering. Anyways, just subbed! Joe

[@StarryHilder]

homesteadonomics Arizona! Awesome! I can appreciate the value of water when you are in the high desert like that! what part of Arizona? I did some back country mountain biking and it was so pretty!! Thanks for subscribing and hope you enjoy the videos!!

[@homesteadonomics]

Hey SH, we are south of Tucson at about 4000'. We are still desert rats but don't get as crazy hot as the tucson/phoenix dwellers:) And yeah, the mountain biking (and road biking) is pretty big here. Lance Armstrong used to do the road to Mount Lemon every year as part of his training. Anyways, love the vids and your cabin and location look spectacular!

[@ASkyeMall]

Thanks for sharing. Best wishes.

[@branimirmarold7343]

thanks for sharing experience, respect!

[@bbsbacktobasics7695]

you guys are such a blessing, love your lifestyle & would love to live off grid & maybe build my own designed tiny house it have a better homestead living space. God willing, I hope to get on the path you guys are on.God bless you both abundantly! ~♡~♡~♡~

[@stevepetrick5537]

If you haven't been able to get that buried water line clear and flowing again, I have an idea on how to clean it out. I would suggest that your husband back flush it with compressed air from the holding tank end. He may need to make and adapter to seal the hose end. Don't exceed the working pressure of the poly pipe. He may have a friend with a portable gas driven compressor. Water could also be used to back flush the line, too. I hope that will help you get your winterized line back in service. I love your use of scriptures.

[@StarryHilder]

+Steve Petrick yes that is our plan..one day! the main problem is accessing the the outlet pipe end. he dosent want to try and do it from inside the tank with all the water, so that means digging it up out side the tank. it would be some work. you know how when the other fix is working you never get back to fixing the 1st problem! i think next summer this will be put on the list of priorities to do. thanks for your advise. i think this will make a great how to fix it video!

[@stevepetrick5537]

+Starry Hilder my method would first plug the line at the bottom (tank end). Then use compressed air to push all the water and dirt out the top of the pipe. filling the pipe from the spring and blowing it out could be done several times to assure the line is clean. The dirty water could not get into the tank. This way there is no digging. Thanks for replying. I have two more ideas I will share with you for your consideration soon.

[@aaronwhitney7853]

I love the end of your video and thanks for the tips you are very helpful. you must have been living their for a wile and you are doing fine I can't even think why someone would want to pay to go to the woods when they can live their cheaper, you are very wise. :) and again thanks for the videos.

[@clydenonya1122]

In construction, all trades, vehicle maintenance all types, solar, hunting & fishing I am really good, I have been learning to cann, and cook my weakness, and of coarse I am a war veteran so soldiering I am very good too..

[@frhythms]

Love your videos, Starry and Mr. Hilder! I'm looking for property so I can become an off-grid homesteader ... and your videos are very helpful and also very inspiring! Thank you !!!

[@michaelhorsford403]

love your vids

[@StarryHilder]

+Michael Horsford Thank you!! I try!

[@StarryHilder]

Karl Huber. We have been drinking this water since first visiting out here many years ago. Spring water..moving water..we didn't test it..just drank it and waited! haha...Most people who live out here and go up in the mountains do the same. no life straws no filtration..moving water..out of a spring...low risk. My husband got giardia once in Canada from drinking out of a lake..yuck...I would say though most people should test their water. Remember US nurses never follow our own advice...!! Thanks for the comment and God Bless

[@umaxen01]

Starry Hilder There are simple filters and UV lights that kill most everything in drinking water. Water purity is a tricky one. You need to obtain the water from a location close to the source or the hole where the water is coming out of the ground. You also have to protect that spot from ALL animals ! Even a single animal (or a married one!) with dirty hooves could potentially contaminate the spring. I would put objects around it to keep animals away from the source. By the way, that is a NICE water supply! Streams, rivers and creeks are actually FULL of all types of runoff and poop since animals go to drink from it, bathe in it and clean their food. Now we get to the fish. The fish live and poop in it 24/7...

[@hartstudebakerkid]

Starry Hilder I contracted Guardia from our cabin tracts water supply. It was not fun. You can eliminate any chance with three 10 inch housings. Your husband could set the whole thing up for less then $200.Our tract is now the model for Washington State on how to do Class A non community systems using surface water.

[@StarryHilder]

We have been drinking the water for three years...so if we dont have it now!! i think we are good..plus its a flowing spring...no standing water..comes directly out of the side of the mountain. He had giardia up in BC and like you said it WASNT fun. BUT heck thanks for the input..good to know for others who may have to address this with their water supply!!! God Bless

[@hartstudebakerkid]

I had been drinking the water from our community water system too as had others before I contracted Guardia. The money that it would cost to add the filters is less then what the treatment for Guardia costs and then there is your lost days of work too. In spite of our water system now having a state certified filtration system I still maintain my own filtration equipment for my cabin. There are two water standards of water certification and Both are NSF. One is National Sanitation Foundation which is the standard of the communities water. My drinking water is National Science Foundation certified cold sterilized as I filter down to .2 microns. After 20 years I still am running the same final .2 micron bag as it has not needed changing yet. 10000 gallons is a lot of drinking water. I set up my housings for manual backwash and when the cabin is not being used the filter housings are drained so that a biofilm does not grow on the filters. To deal with micro organisms in my hot water I have the hot water tank set at 160 but it is a fast recovery electric that uses both elements the upper and lower to heat at the same time

[@hartstudebakerkid]

Just another reason to have your water tested and use the right filters. www.yahoo.com/health/brain-eating-amoeba-shows-up-in-louisiana-tap-125170465647.html

[@shaunfox1391]

There's too many BS channels/vids about this stuff. It's always great to find a helpful vid/channel. Thank you for this vid/info, it's very useful

[@StarryHilder]

+Shaun Fox haha..no BS around here! thank you!

[@mellamoesroy]

Great video! I wish I had a spring like that on my project in Spain 😉 We formed Swales to help collect the annual rain water for farming but you have given me an idea 😉😉😉😉 Thanks Roy

[@BuckeyeBDH]

Did you look at building a Ram Pump to pump the spring water to a water tower? Sounds like if you would build a water tower close to were your tank is and build it 10 - 15 feet up ( 1 psi per foot in height ) in the air it would give you more water pressure without the need of a pressure tank or electricity. Although admittedly the pressure tank is the cheaper option.

[@StarryHilder]

BuckeyeBryan We thought about but you made the point..the cost verses the gain..my husband felt it wasn't worth it since even from where the gravity feed is, it still works. There's a reason why we are debt free!! haha some things we do without because we save money! Good comments though for those that may have the cash to look into this! Thanks

[@stevepetrick5537]

The spring on your property seems to produce excess water beyond your needs. All the water that you don't need could be gathered into a larger pipe and brought down the hill to about where the pond is at. The water could generate a small amount of electricity using a 12v alternator. I'm just guessing at this point, you may have potential for 100 to 300 watts 24 hours a day 7 days a week, that could be added to your batteries. Renewable hydro-electricity, how clean is that?The second idea involves the coolness of the water coming out of the spring. It is probably 50 to 60 deg. year round. You could run some of the excess water through a cooler to keep your food cool. If you add the affects of some evaporation you might be able to get it down to 40 deg. The principles of a swamp cooler might be able to used.

[@StarryHilder]

+Steve Petrick All GREAT ideas!!! But the water flow is not always the same..and the over flow is also not constant. This year the pond dried up due to the drought and the spring was only putting gout a trickle. We thought of the cool water before for refrigeration but at this point our solar does fine during the summer to provide for our needs in that department. However for back up plans WE WILL always have refrigeration because of that spring and that cold mountain water!!

[@TheGregd81]

Just run the water threw a 4 stage filtration. 1 micron down to 4 micron and pass threw ultraviolet to kill bacteria.

[@desireebryant5434]

Starry, Did I hear Mr. say EMP would knock out solar power ? I enjoy your videos & learning how to prepare to live off grid in the event of power grid failure... Which is when not if😬

[@johngodwin7902]

Great Video. I recently subscribed and love watching you two guys. Great homdstead. My wife and I have a second home up high on the NC Smoky MTN's. We have a spring much like yours but our spring and reservoir and electric pump is below the home. I made a neat Ram Pump to pump water up hill. Have you guys ever made one of those. You really don't need it per your video but you could pump the water up to use in other areas of property or for higher storage vs pressure. I know you have the pressure problem solved so you guys are blessed your spring is above the home. Thanks for the great video's. Fun Fun Fun! :-)

[@StarryHilder]

+John Godwin Glad you found us.and so cool you have your own off grid place in the mountains! NC is a awesome place to be!! We dont do the ram pump...doesnt serve our purpose..but we are blessed with a great spring and thru our efforts of humanare composting we have plenty of water throughout the year!!

[@thermionic1234567]

Even though these little streams/springs may be somewhat intermittent, have you thought of micro hydro? It's great to diversify! Also, have you thought bought fire suppression and having enough water to put out a fire?

[@48jwhit]

Jeffrey Morrissey I

[@gopackgo2235]

Yup, ours did that as well. Here in Canada we aren't allowed to do that, but we pay for water rights into our creek.

[@StarryHilder]

dana lee I remember having a coupe conversation about water right..big thing in places like California. We are pretty lucky...we have t his spring, then our neighbor has a couple, one bigger one that we actually talked about developing together. So we are blessed with lots of water here and no water rights to fight over or record or to pay extra taxes on !:) Where are you in Canada?

[@rosielee6390]

Hi Starry, great video, don't you also have a well by the garden? Thank you for the tip on collecting some 55 gal drums. I would have not thought of that. And also the pressure pump. I think that's something we would do. Thank you for sharing

[@StarryHilder]

Rosie Lee We don't have a well. Our only source is the spring, but as I pointed out that buried concrete holding tank is pretty large and since we had a road made to it..we could also place another on above ground tank if we needed more water. And yes start looking for those 55 gallon drums. Finding them may be hard. And don't worry about having to haul them to the new place..we used them as packeing containers to..stuffed everything into them so they didn't take up space...Pressure tank yes..little electricity and if you go with the tankless propane heater you gotta have pressure. We had out water hooked up to the woodstove initially...but since the winters aren't cold enough to have a fire everyday our water would cool down and it really was a pain. Too many cold showers! So we just got that tankless unit and said the heck with it. Love it now!! Thanks for watching and hope this helps get you prepared!!

[@clydenonya1122]

here where I am, I can get the 12v water pumps in various psi, and various gallons per second, you should always go with 40 to 65 psi (pressure per inch), and at least 3 gps (gallons per second), but here I can get them at the Ranch and Hoe, and at RV shops, the Ranch and Home is not for RV's but the same units anyways.. 12v.. But online on google, yahoo, amazon, ebay what ever, just type 12v water pump, you will see them, many PSI & GPM, on both you want the bigger numbers trust me.. biggest numbers on both would make even your shower work great.. The thing about these 12v pumps, they are only on demand, they pressure the water, and when the pressure goes down, they turn on to put the pressure back

[@JCAJCA3]

Starry, Great video! Good information that is very useful. Thanks for taking the time to make and post it. What type of pressurized tank and motor was that in the video in case some other people would like to copy it to increase their pressure. JC

[@StarryHilder]

JCAJCA3 The tank is a flotech 82 gallon pressurized. The pump is a Star model sj055. Thanks for asking...it is the perfect size and like we said clicks on twice or so and doesn't make any dent in the batteries

[@sfbluestar]

Do you have a video about your bathroom situation?

[@humility-righteous-giving]

how does water stay fresh in tank? does it not rot when sitting in tank long? so if you get a 10,000 gallon you would have easy coverage and would not have to think of water?

[@miketabb8318]

you may have enough flo for hydrelectic to suplument your solar in winter and you should look at wind also . imho

[@ppger44]

Show us your battery bank system for collecting solar energy to run than water pump.

[@StarryHilder]

Go to video "Solar battery maintenance" to see the batteries. Got L16 interstate lead acid.:) Im ma king a new video showing everything tied together so you don't have to go thru all my videos! Thanks for watching! God Bless

[@GPAK]

Awesome video. Thanks for sharing your valuable experience. There was no mention about checking the safety of your water supply. I remember from another video that you are a nurse so you must be pretty knowledgeable about waterborne microorganisms. Did you ever have any concerns about giardia or anything else that might be in the water?

[@davidgroff3355]

1990 called it wants its hair back 😅

[@bellainfidella5585]

We can live without a lot of things but water is not one of them. I'm so pleased you went with the concrete instead of the plastic holding tank. Even the most highest grade food plastic is from petrochemicals. And petroleum is a known carcinogen. Sure, sure they'll tell you its fine. But I'm going with the independent scientist on this one and they are seeing it react with something as benign as water. I hear with the gravity feed if you use a siphon with it you can get a lot more water pressure.

[@risingsun49]

Thank you yes i always wondered about that and plumbing were does the water from your shower go? And teh water from the kitchen sink . Thank you good advice.

[@StarryHilder]

risingsun49 Thank you and glad you found the video helpful. Gray water we have a pipe going over a rockey drain field

[@lazylarrimores]

nice mullet

[@StarryHilder]

lazylarrimores Yea we split alot of wood with it!! Get yours at home depot!! har har!!

[@AmazingGrace945]

I don't know how our pioneers ever made it if they drank that nasty water, lol. I used to drink from creeks and rivers when I was a kid.

[@jerriemcgill6848]

Please ensure you have the water tested. Just because it looks clean doesn't mean it is. GOD bless.

[@SRHurst-kj5mx]

We are using a catchment system and can you believe that it is now illeagle to even use a rain barrel in our end of the City.

[@StarryHilder]

+S.R. Hurst wow thats pathetic..illegal!!! wow

[@SRHurst-kj5mx]

Starry Hilder I know, crazy. Our government says we must buy our power & water from them or else it's "unsafe". (All about the money) So most of us are finding ways to circumvent the laws to live off grid if that is our choice. It's also illeagle to hang your clothes outside, here! (We have retractable clothes lines to do it anyway. But we retract our lines after we are done to help conceal them.) We even have water barrels that look like wood piles and are concealed by actual wood piles to collect our water, illegally. Where do you buy your bulk rice and beans? FYI; We found a lot of 5 gallon pails from our grocery stores bakery dept.'s, deli stores, coffee shops and ice cream stores in case folks are thinking up ways to find sources for them.

[@saberlilly1]

It's close to the same here. No rain barrels, no reusing wash water to water your plants/ lawn. Oh an no mowing your lawn in your under ware on Tuesdays, lmao yep that's a law here. The crazy law the government sets for us.

[@SRHurst-kj5mx]

saberlilly1 HaHaHa...well except for the Tuesday law thing, I really think they go out of their way to make lives more dependent on the big energy corporations and themselves. So we can do one of 3 things...accept their crazy rules like a drone, try to get the laws changed, or figure out ways to circumvent them. I fell into the 2nd category for a little while but now I'm 100% in the 3rd.

[@SRHurst-kj5mx]

saberlilly1 Oh yes, we can only paint our garage doors white or brown. ???? No idea why. Another funny law was that all places of business must have a hitching post out front for horses but at the same time It is also illegal to have horses here.

[@scottfoster2487]

You got enough flow to improve you power issues.

[@beachlife1411]

nice water set up sweet so u have water year round ? ..

[@countryside8122]

well.....here is another idea... That water could be turning a water wheel,,,,which can produce electricity....Just another thought...

[@StarryHilder]

countryside Good idea but on our homestead not enough throughout the year to turn it!!

[@mrsfishguts]

What is the name of the manufacturer of your water holding tank?

[@ardith11]

what a beautiful landscape - what state is it? curious

[@StarryHilder]

+Shao Prepper Idaho!

[@westgl2006]

How Much rainfall per year do you get in your area? I am sure the hill/mountain side creek/spring helps you with your water needs, what would happen if that would get diverted up stream or dry up? I am very new to off grid homesteading and just wondering, since water is the most important part of living. I am looking to move to the Oregon coast, with a annual rain fall at 72", also there is a 10mph wind Most Everyday, and mostly sunny, so I am looking at wind energy mainly, and maybe some solar, for comfort but have everything setup for off grid in those unplanned circumstances. I want to incorporate a Large Green House into my house build, for heating my house,

[@StarryHilder]

Gary West we recieve about 20" rain annually and about 52" snowfall. the snow pack is what the area really depends on for alot of the creek spring flow. this yr little snow pack up high, and no rain for the last month or so, combined with the abnormal high temps so early in the summer. yes things are dryed up. our little spring has always produce even in the hottest summers, and right now it is down to a small trickle. the mountain we are on has a history of having good springs always trickling. the ravine it drops down into is pretty steep and the water really only has one way to go once it comes out! yes hopefully it stays that way! sounds like you have a good plan for your set up! i hope u consider taking videos as when a person is setting up that is valuable info. thanks for watching and good luck!!

[@dpower02]

Sorry I forgot to add you may be able to use an air tank with a 1" hose and a 1" quarter turn valve, and get a good blast of air and blow back the plugged line.

[@Heather11268]

Why did you bot put in a well, with hand pump.

[@kevins5833]

How about blowing out the old line with compressed air?

[@StarryHilder]

kevin S yep been there done that!! hahaha

[@kevins5833]

Starry Hilder Hmmm, I feel like the rock is just a short distance down the tube... the perfectionist in me wants to fix it...

[@StarryHilder]

keep thinking ..would love to get it out!!

[@kevins5833]

Starry Hilder Ok, you said you have water pressure at the house. Ok, attach a female receptor to the end of the hose at the pond. attach another garden hose from the house, under pressure and use the house pressure to push the rock out from the opposite end up the hill at the spring source. Do it on a hot day so the hose will expand from the heat of the day enabling the rock or whatever it is to come out at the spring:)

[@raysova7666]

What state/area are you homesteading ? I'm getting ready.

[@MikeSheasheaDtree]

Starry do your outside water sources (pound, holding tank, pipes) freeze? Then what, thanks.

[@martinjacobson7063]

Where did you get the tank from? Is that its intended purpose and if so what model/size is it. I'm a new subscriber and I find your videos fascinating. Keep it up!

[@StarryHilder]

Martin Jacobson We got it locally down by CDA. they build concrete tanks and other items. It is 1400 gallon water tank. We had to have a guy with a lift drop it very very carefully in the hole we dug...the machine actually slide into the hole...kinda...it was unreal to watch. Alot of weight. wish I would have had a camera for it!! Glad you found us and thanks for commenting and of course joining us!

[@StarryHilder]

Starry Hilder also...the tank is made in 2 pieces, top half and bottom. you put the bottom 1/2 in, next apply a thick rubber type gasket, then carefully set the top half on sealing the 2 halves to complete the tank. setting the top half was a sketchey process!

[@ZE308AC]

Can you drink rain water if you run it to a filter, a distiller, and boil the water?

[@umaxen01]

How do you get power? I would use 4 solar panels, 2 truck batteries, some cable and an inverter from Walmart or Ebay. (12V to 120V power inverter) I don't mean a little power here either...You could light up your whole house with 8 LED bulbs of 8.5 watts each. This gives the equivalent of 60 watts of light per bulb. The bulbs are only $2.50 each ! With batteries you can power TV, radio, light bulbs, computer, microwave oven, battery charging, cell phones and outside night lights but NOT hot water tank or electric stoves. A 3 panel, 2 battery, inverter and cable package is cheap and effective, has NO moving parts and could last 5 to 8 years....

[@StarryHilder]

umaxen01 Sounds like you have a nice setup. sizing a battery bank and panels as you know isnt hard and you dont need alot of stuff!! A person can go all out, or you can do it simply as you have done. How much sun is available year round for you out of curiosity? How do you recharge the batteries if there are long cloudy days? your 4 panels..how many watts are they and do you have a mppt charge controller? I like it when people share their different setups. do you have a you tube channel??

[@umaxen01]

Starry Hilder The family set-up is as follows. (Don't ask me how it all works!) The panels are 250W each for a total of 1000W and I am in GA which is good sunlight. The truth is, you don't need 100% direct sunlight to save energy. We have 4 big (used) deep cycle batteries. They are never under 50% Charge controller, batteries and a 12v-120v converter. I had a friend help me hook it into a system of breakers for the various rooms. Not perfect, but works! On a crappy day, even if you are making 350W, you can store energy during the day when you are not using it. Hey, it's free energy... If you buy 12 of the panels with friends, you can bring the price down to around $185 for each panel. That's not so bad...

[@clydenonya1122]

Yes, and I am very willing to help you in any way you wish with my knowledge, I am very good with many skills, okay your solar is wired for 24 volt, no problem, that;s two 12v batteries wired to 24v, you said you have 4 batteries, so two sets of 24 volt.. There is great contivery on solar from 12v, 24, 26v, 48v charging systems, I personally rather wire to 12v more amps, less voltage, most over 12v wiring tends to shoot higher voltage, witch can if not careful fry some 12v items.., but the easiest way to pull 12v off your system is just connect to one battery 12v + 12v - to run your 12v items, in your 4 battery system, you could run a 12v leg of each battery.. In the future, I disagree with anyone saying 24v, almost nothing runs 24v you use so not smart.. Not to mention, Now on your solar, I seen 8 cells, I assume the bottom 4 are 100w or larger.. The top 4 looked smaller.. you at 24v are running less amps, charging is by amps, NOT watts, NOT by volts..Well volts have amps, but less at higher volts.. You would charge better if configured at 12v, but that for you decide.. Well either way, you need to think about building a better battery bank, Stay away from AGM, or GEL cells, with AGM or GEL cells, if you connect two or more together, they charge very fast, but also lose power very fast, bad ideas, best batteries for solar depending on your finances, would be a large bank of lithium, very expensive, next would be forklift batteries, little cheaper, lastly but just as good as either if banked up, is Marine Deep Cycle 12 Batteries.. Next no matter which batteries you choose, you need to look at AMP hours, you want more AMP hours as possible in your battery storage capability, looks like you have over 600w of solar panels at a guess, which at 12v should be 29 plus amps charging, half the amps at 24v because you combine two cells for volts, you loss half the charging amps, not smart.. With the cells you have, I would look into getting wired back into 12v, so to be completely max amp charging, not voltage, no one uses 24v hardly, most appliances use 12v, and buying step down electronic is a pain.. Any who if you wired back to 12v, I would recommend cheaper, buy even if a few at a time, but 12v Deep cycle (27) batteries 100 amp hours per battery, and bank 2 rows of 12 batteries, total 24 batteries 12v, putting your system at 2400 amp hours power, charged by your current solar panels, you would be solid.. Most of your pumps 12v I discussed you would not notice on that bank, no draw down at all, use LED light as I do, I use LED 9 LED bannet bulbs, in custom RV fixtures is what i use, but there are LED bulbs that also fit in house light fixtures, again you would never pull down that bank.. And your laptop could run on that bank for 240 hours about without charging the bank any further.. But you should not use just one power source, I just came up with a off grid custom generator, which could run your entire house, and charge the battery bank for cloudy days, on less then a gallon of gas per 24 hour days.. And I can set it too 160 amp, which is much more power then any other generator made, and more power then 50 125w solar cells.. I am very smart in many ways, and only get smart as I learn, I look forward to when I get off grid.. Hope some of that helps some

[@markroeder2491]

Clyde nonya I would never use a 12VDC setup for a homestead situation. The minimum I'd go is 24VDC. It is the sweet spot for 1-4KW and water pumping. 12VDC is great for an RV or Car. Over 4KW and you could save a lot by going to 48VDC. The higher the voltage the smaller the wire size...and cost.

[@usarmyveteran0072]

Mars Rover I know many people have reasons for their choices, to each their own, but my choice, I totally disagree with you.. Simply because most all things DC you can use the POWER for are 12 VOLT, sure you can drop power from 24, 36, 28, 72 ect VOLT to 12, just cost you much more money for the dropping power, yes you can pull 12 VOLT off one batter, or (2) Volt instead of the entire system for the 12 VOLT items, BUT then you weaken those batteries over the full bank.. I rather fully charge at the universal 12 VOLT, and pull across the whole bank in a special manner my own wiring design, so to keep the batteries at top shape for longer time.. Again it' merely choice.. And NO matter what others choices are, I choose 12VOLT over all other choice, and bank up to a larger AMP HOURS, which 12 VOLT also gets a much higher AMP Hours per same batters, more then double vs 24 volt, 3 times to 36 volt, 4 times the AMP hours to 48 Volt and so on.. Larger amp hours at the proper draw gets longer use.. Sure pulling 12 volt from 48 volt also stretches the draw length and time for instance.. Just about the same length of time, 12 VOLT holds just a bit longer, do the tests as I have.. I have even tested Lithium batteries, if one can afford them, that's the real way to go.. Because a lithium bank will charge by just leaving them in the sun especially in the summer.. But on really hot days, I would leave them in a shady place to naturally charge.. So many variables, so many choices.. FACT is I build my battery bank based on AMP HOURS, length of time my batteries will allow me to do things, then choice of batteries matter, choice of charge controllers, type of solar panels, all vary, and which you configure together matters a whole lot.. So you have your choices Rover, I have mine, and we both have our reasons behind our choices.. I can easily defend my choices with proof, and studying to know what I choose, much as I assume each who makes a choice can do, and why they made the choice they made.. 12VOLT is universal.. So poor people, NOT RICH people, should stay in the standard lines, it's much cheaper to configure, and most everything is designed to either work in an Auto or RV, or camping so 12 VOLT. And aim their battery bank for AMP hours, larger the number the better, keep in mind to build their charging means that can maintain that battery bank, also off grid you should have at least 3 means of charging those batteries.. So on cloudy days you have power..

[@markroeder2491]

US ARMY Veteran 007 It's your choice on how you develop your system, but if you are serious about using DC power I'd never go 12 Volt system for anything more than an RV or Car. It has it's place, but not for a homestead. I'd advise people to do their homework before spending any money. I think most will find that 24VDC is the sweet spot with solar and wind back-up/off grid power solutions.I can tell that you are not really familiar with the concept of Amp Hours. A 60 AH 12VDC system has the same storage as a 30 AH 24 VDC system. The costs of having to use 10 gauge wire over say 14 gauge will eat you up and not allow your system to grow. Please folks if you are going into this do your homework and ask the experts.

[@stevehill5376]

Clyde nonya

[@WORMGITTER]

Can you drink lake water if you boil it? I do not have a spring.

[@StarryHilder]

+WORM GITTER yes, you sure can!!

[@FusionStream]

What is that song at the end? It's so familiar! Are you concerned about your concrete tank getting compromised (structurally) or getting infected with bad water? How much money do you bleed per year? As in how much just goes into consumables or repairs that aren't really recouped per se.

[@fenikkusuuk6315]

+fusionstream This is probably one of the best questions here... my hubby and I wondering the same thing.

[@StarryHilder]

+fusionstream the water tank was designed to be buried the way it is and not to worried about the water contamination, but if for some reason it did, we would have to drain it and scrub the inside with a diluted bleach. how much money do we spend? not very much! havent had any repairs actually on the homestead itself except tires, vehicle repairs and of course gas being the biggest expense. yes we do buy some food per month!

[@fenikkusuuk6315]

+Starry Hilder Starry please excuse for two of us posting such a personal question... Your more serious people will be asking this question... those of us who are weighing things and seeing if we could make this happen for ourselves try to get a very accurate picture and assessment of making life work on a limited budget. I'll tell ya ,,, I even thought to myself to buy the solar batteries incrementally... maybe purchase 4 per year so no particular year has a huge outlay of funds for it. If I get to the point that I will follow in your footsteps, I will begin creating videos from the very first item purchased toward the ultimate goal and I will keep a running ledger of costs and share it with the world ... these are things that are hard to grasp unless we get them down in black and white really. lol When we get some safe financial advice they often say write down EVERY purchase for instance and only by doing so will you have a good idea of where we're basically bleeding money. Yep my issue is at Dunkin' Donuts and I swear to you if I was moving out there to be one of your neighbors ... two things we would arrive with a trailer full of DD coffee and there would be goats! lolololol Oh yeah... while we're on the subject since vehicle repairs came up... Before 150 k miles registers on the Subaru get the timing belt changed because there is a clash motor in the subaru. If the belt snaps it takes the engine with it and for those of us who have had a Subaru (and husband has that chevy...lol) the Subaru is a very valuable and useful snow tank that can get a big chevy back on the road!!! So take care of her!

[@StarryHilder]

one note quick before i get to work.. do not buy batteries as you go! batteries all need to be purchased at the same time as a unit, same age. it is not recommended to add batteries on to a system. buy your other parts as you can, thats what we did. as in inverter, charge controller, ect.

[@fenikkusuuk6315]

OOO that makes sense.... this is same reason they say don't mix old and new batteries in electronics.... Got it... but you know I'm glad I posted this and I'm glad everyone can see this so no one makes that sort of mistake!!! As always Starry thanks so much!!! The next time you make a vid that deal with batteries mention this and my obvious mistake here by all means so people know. I'm not the only one who will be a newbie to solar!!!

[@donaldcrank2573]

does your states have laws against living off the grid?

[@22lisarob]

Good evening. How would I go about filtering water that I have collected from rain? I know there are life straws available to buy, but once the filter is no longer useable or you are in a situation where you can no longer buy these filters what do you do then? I've read that you can purify water by using bleach, but this does not seem like a very good idea to me as I'm not keen on the idea of drinking household bleach plus that bleach will run out in time. As you can probably guess I'm new to storing and gathering water and at the present time this is seeming like a big challenge for me. I have been buying bottled water for just in case, but think its time I find a more reliable way of making sure we do not run out of safe clean water to keep use alive should the need for it arise. We do not have an off the grid homestead like you do, but I would love to one day. At the moment we are at the beginning of our journey of becoming self reliant.

[@StarryHilder]

+Lisa Robinson Go to this channel and watch the video on how to make a berkley water purifier..sounds like your ready for one!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZuqqYh3hNeeqK8

[@22lisarob]

thank you

[@daledurbin2354]

Dumb Question for you. How do you have a Computer/Internet off grid? Thanks D

[@StarryHilder]

+Dale Durbin never a dumb question at starrys! we run our computer from the electric produced from our solar set up. and we get internet service locally from a tower signal. thanks for watching.

[@justgivemethetruth]

Where do you find those 55 gallon barrels ?

[@StarryHilder]

justgivemethetruth my husband had bought a bunch many yrs ago from the car wash place where we used to live, they had soap in them. if you do a google search you may beable to find a dealer of some sort near you. we found a new supplier near us that has all kinds of barrels

[@55Herbie1]

Great information. Thank you. Could you let us know what brand/model of water pressure tank you're using? Now having used it for a while would you recommend still using it or is there another one you would have gotten?

[@StarryHilder]

55Herbie1 Star sjo5s model. Still works great for our off grid application!!

[@clydenonya1122]

Just a well too late, but helpful upgrade.. Your water system is good, but your pump idea is ok, there would of been a cheaper, and 12v way to do that, maybe later if you think about it, your pump is for a well, and works sure, but an 12v pump works off solar completely low draw the same way, actually less draw then the 110 pump, fact is, your pump is 30 pounds pressure, The one I put in my school bus I have been building is 65 psi much more pressure then your 110 pump, and much smaller.. Commonly used in RV's.. Just a helpful thought, seeing you are on solar 12v, your pump is 110, you have to invert the power for it, which uses so much more power, going from 12v to 110, as the RV pump takes the same 12v power directly from solar to power the pump.. Just food for thought

[@StarryHilder]

Clyde nonya My husband read this...he said at the time he wasn't familiar with what you are talking about and set it up this other way since this was what he knew! BUt he said you are correct...this is a great idea! and we will probably do this soon!! (p.s any input on how you would go about hooking it up to the batteries?? We have 16 6 volt batteries strung together in 4's to make 24 volts.....any idea??

[@clydenonya1122]

Just looked up your batteries, and config, you are set to 24v at 928 amp hours, not bad at all, pretty efficient, I agree, I have not looked at 6v batteries in 3 years, back then biggest was 220 ah, how we can get 480 ah batteries 6v, very cool getting better.. But if you choose to rework your system, and reset to 12v, you would have 1856 amp hours at 12v.. But understand, amp hours is based on 10amp draw, the math has to be reworked for different draws.. But still 928ah is awesome, and you could add more batteries.. for longer battery storage usages times.. But only if you need more time, your only issue on your system is well most electronics is set for 12v standard.. not 24v.., granted you can step down some things, you can run hotter power threw some things, but some things just melt at over 12v so be cautious.., as a off grinder, we have to learn to use the power we have, you choose 24v cool, I choose 12v standard.. easier.. Hope I give you something to think about, if you choose to go 12v standard, it would only mean rewire a few things, and maybe buy a 12v inverter.. But if you already purchased a big 24v inverter, I would not do the changes unless the inverter goes down one day..

[@StarryHilder]

Awesome stuff! You have a genius mind and always looking for good input!! you should write a instructional book on this!! God bless and thank you gain for putting your mind to work for our benefit!!

[@clydenonya1122]

Thanks, just a think a smart person has to do, when they are not rich or have much money, we learn to do things with little or no money, cheaper, and often recycling..

[@StarryHilder]

YES to that..my husband was told many ti me by experts..you cant do your own electrical , you cant do your own plumbing...you cant build it that way..you cant use heat that way..HA! The big lie!! He has done all of it himself! They want you to be ignorant...self empowerment is a dangerous thing!! haha

[@justgivemethetruth]

What do you do to treat your water to make it drinkable or shower able ?

[@StarryHilder]

justgivemethetruth nothing! straight out of the mountain down to the house. we have a piece of screen over the entry pipe and thats about it. this may not work for everybodys set up though.

[@homegrowngagreen691]

Starry is going to need our help, she has been in a bad accident. Details are here: www.gofundme.com/starryhilder A GoFundMe page was started on her behalf. Even $1 would go a long way to help her during this crisis in her and her family's life. I created an email address that I will share with Starry and her family, they will receive 100% of the proceeds by using this address. I have listed the address at the hospital where you can send cards or care packages on the GoFundMe page if you prefer send something through the mail, just so everything is in one central location. Starry has a daytime job as a nurse and needs our support to help with bills and running her homestead while she is recovering. As you all know she also contributes immensely to her homestead's upkeep and her contribution will be missed. If everyone donates only $1 it will go a long way to help her keep things running. If you can't donate but still want to help, here is a poster you can print and share: tinyurl.com/j988m54 Here is a link to an update video she posted yesterday: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoXMnWN5n5KsgcU Thank you for anything you can do to help.

[@Rainman_actual]

so why no ram pump

[@StarryHilder]

charles fournier Hmm well isnt a ram pump for pumping the water uphill? We have gravity feed...into a 1400 gallon tank. Can you explain what a ram pump would do for us? Curious!:)

[@jimh3500]

I am curious, what is the approximate water temp? Is it refreshing?

[@StarryHilder]

+Jim Hervey COLD!!!! Not sure the temp...but cold..refreashing

[@mem7048]

Check out engineer775 on YT for instructions on building ram pumps and other great ideas

[@StarryHilder]

M. Everett Munson Will do thanks!

[@clydenonya1122]

Again, just trying to force ya, just trying to be helpful.. But again 12v vs 24v, 36v, or 48v, some people believe they charge better at higher voltage, the problem is most batteries have a voltage limit, AGM max charge at 15.5 per battery, Lithium 16.6v max charge per battery, Lead Acid Deep Cycle 14.5 max volt charge.. You siad each of your batteries are 16.6 volt, I do not know for certain which battery those are.. But sounds like AGM, if they are AGM, really bad idea.. If (4) AGM, tell me does the power seem to fall down fast? If yes that's the traits of multi AGM's together, AGM's make poor solar batteries,, I have two tried them $300 per battery.. If I used a LED light on (2) AGM they last 4 hours draw time, on (1) Lead Acid Deep Cycle 6 to 8 hours same LED run time, for example, AGM's suck as solar batteries.. Batteries are meant as storage of power to use when it's dark, or cloudy, you need a battery bank that will hold you for your power consumption for minim 12 to 24 hours without charging.. I like 12v Marine Batteries/Deep Cycles, cheaper, and series them 12v, higher amp hours, not higher voltage lower amp hours.. Amp Hours in the length of time based on your draw you can use those batteries.. 24v half the time.. 12v double the time.. and faster charge.. And 12v is what most of our device use, or is stepped down from.. 12v is common.. Ask me specific questions, and I would be happy to help How much does land go for up there, juts curious..

[@StarryHilder]

Clyde nonya Lots of good input but we dont have agm batteries. We have sixteen 6 volt Interstate lead acid batteries...We are pretty satisfied with the battery setup. 24 volt system...they are wired in parallel...

[@clydenonya1122]

Yeah a lot of people like golf cart batteries, they work really good... Not my choice, but many do like them they hold power for long durations of time much like lithium batteries, like I said, most people like different directions, your system in aspect is 800 to 1600 ah system with your batteries, would have to do some math to know for certain, good batteries system, as long as it does your system as you wish that's all that matters.. I went 12v 100ah batteries, and put in parallel, instead of series, series strengthens Voltage, which does make for a longer use of power on one manner.. I configure parallel, which strengthens my Amp Hours, more stable power length of time.. Just i choose one way, you choose another, neither is wrong, but my way I can plug directly into my battery bank for any electronics, yours you have to only connect to one 12v circuit not your complete bank, another-words your 12v use would be weak since not the complete bank, where as my configuration, if I connect a 12v electronic to my battery bank, I connect to the whole bank, and have the entire run time, in your configurations 2 to 4 hours for a laptop.. If I put (16) 12v 100ah batteries in parallel 1600 ah (Amp Hours) a laptop typical draw is 100 ah, so the laptop would run non stop for about 160 hours without charging the batteries.. In your configuration because you are 24v and pulling from just one battery to get 12v, you will also after time damage a battery, in my manner, I will always connect evenly across all batteries, keeping them working for a longer period of time.. Hope I broke that down in a manner you can understand.. All solar people take different paths, like different things, and it's up to you what you use..And how you use it, Myself unless someone is rich, or need 220 AC, there is no real reason for 24v or larger.. 220 batteries can also be taken from 12v dual banks of batteries..220 AC can be taken from a single bank of batteries if you have a 220 AC inverter.. many options, I myself do not need 220, not now or ever... all I need is 12v and 110 which I have configured my bus for, and When i get on land, and start building a house, it will be wired 110 AC and 12v as well..

[@clydenonya1122]

if they were in paralllel you would be running 6v system, so your batteries are in series to become 24v, to figure out your Amp Hours at 24v, look at one battery, and see the number with am after it, most likely 100am or 220ah, multiply that by 4, and that's your total amp hours of battery storage.. Once you have that number, different appliances use different draws, like charging a cell phone, less then 10 ah (amp Hours).. The way Amp Hours work is, you take your total Amp Hours, and each hour used, subtract your draw, like cell phone charging about 10ah draw, so say you have a 880ah (amp Hour System) without charging your system you would, a cell phone would not much hurt it, BUT let's say you invert power, and If you have a 2000wat, or 5000wat inverter, depending on how much power you use, your draw with a big inverter will be, 100ah to 200 ah max, so your power system at night not charging, or cloudy days, I would say you would have max 8 to 9 hours if you can not charge your batteries.. But that's only an educated guess, seeing I do not run 24v inverters, so my knowledge is based on 12v systems, so I hope that helps.. But yes those 6v golf cart batteries are known to work well, I agree.. But so do the 12v versions.. So to each their own choices..

[@jarminjarm4413]

What do you do about food and money situation? Because you obviously still use money to an extent and it seems very difficult to work a job and put all the effort into a homestead at the same time. Also with so few people, especially in a colder climate to be completely self sufficient with food seems very difficult? I know you grow your own but does that provide all your food? Any information would be greatly appreciated

[@StarryHilder]

+Jarmin Jarm The food..hunting helps ALOT..you can harvest birds, fish, deer, elk all types of game...some of the hunting goes into the winter months to put food on the table. Gardening...canning your spoils and dehydrating gives you year round supplys..as well as buying in bulk your STAPLE items.....Money...cant live without it..but sure need less when you are self reliant utilizing as many free resources a possible...cuts down on bills...Effort ..we really dont work alot on the homestead...it looks like we do..BUT thats the videos as they are made...in reality...we have a homestead that is setup to be LESS taxing and less laborious..THE GOAL to any homestead. you must set it up keeping in mind one day you will be OLD...!! Hope this helps!!

[@jarminjarm4413]

okay thanks, I'm vegan so I wouldn't hunt anything, Just God's food from the trees and herbs for me. 'Behold I give you every tree bearing fruit and every herb with seed, these shall be yours for food'. Man in the garden of paradise is a herbivorous animal. If we're not even prepared to allow other animals to kill us then killing them even after we destroy their habitat and when we have other options is tipping the balance. Thanks for the info and I wish you well on your journey to realize why vegan is the natural diet of mankind and that you are able to find a way to sustain yourself with plants. Peace

[@doromaner]

What type of hot water heater do you use?

[@StarryHilder]

+David Alan On demand! Eco temp

[@doromaner]

+Starry Hilder You must have a huge inverter.

[@doromaner]

+Starry Hilder Oh your using propane. How long does a tank last?

[@StarryHilder]

+David Alan On demand is propane...we use a 50lb cylinder!:)

[@umaxen01]

In one sentence, living off grid is NORMAL life...

[@StarryHilder]

umaxen01 AMEN!!!

[@joshsupnick9835]

Excavator not Escavator

[@StarryHilder]

+Josh Supnick Ahhh you guys!!! always pointing out my mispronunciation:))) If i had a dollar for every word!! haha...when I was a kid i had to go to speech therapy..guess some words are still harder then others!!

[@joshsupnick9835]

+Starry Hilder I wouldn't worry too much about it then if it's a speech impediment. I thought perhaps you were just making up a word. Good info in the video though. I just became a land owner myself and although I have 0% chance of finding a spring on my property, I am taking in any information I can get on the general topic to apply to my own situation. Everyone I watch has tidbits of info to glean. I like the gravity feed idea. Thanks for the video!

[@StarryHilder]

Glad you like and thats what I try to do..provide as much "real" information as possible with as much content as I can jam in less then 15 minutes!...So if you can take away something...thats great! As for my speech..nothing and no one ever bothers me..have you seen the HAIR? No complex here! lovn' life and what it has in its entirety!!

[@clydenonya1122]

Sorry rattling on, just trying to be helpful

[@StarryHilder]

Clyde nonya YOU are awesome! Dont worry about the rattling on...haha:)

[@joeguzman3558]

Do you have guns for protection maybe a bear or a criminal

[@StarryHilder]

Joe Guzman Not worried about either!

[@MrOldfart47]

YA done good kid! If you need to can you still fill a tank in your pickup down at city hall? Also, when discussing your neighbors of the 4 footed furry kind. My buddy up there told me that there are reports of grizz. down in the valley which is early cause of almost no winter.

[@StarryHilder]

wes normandin Yes you can still fill your tank downtown...alot of people still hauling water! There was a grizzle in Naples...theres been a couple roaming around here lately!! Winter was mild.....so guess the bears liked it!!