Should People with Mental Illness be Allowed to Die?

[@LivingWellAfterSchizophrenia]

Gentle reminder: We understand that this is a polarizing topic. We appreciate that people have different points of view on this, and that’s okay. If you do feel like sharing your opinion please do so in a thoughtful and considerate manner. Furthermore, we do want to make emphatically clear that: - we are not pro suicide - we are not encouraging suicide - we are not suggesting or encouraging that people with mental illness be put to death, coerced into suicide, or be murdered - we are not saying that people with mental illness are not worthy or deserving of life - we are not saying that everyone and anyone who is suicidal should be given the option of medically assisted dying What we do hope this video does is help open up the conversation around medically assisted dying, and the inclusion of people with mental illness being able to access those services if so chosen. We also understand that we did not cover all facets of the debate. For example, we understand that perhaps before this change in law can take place, vast improvements in mental health care need to happen. Disparities in resources and access to supports obviously affects an individuals mental state, and thus are important things to address within this debate as well. However, again, the point of this video was to strike up and encourage more conversations around death and dying and a person’s right to choose how they die. We are absolutely not saying that there is no hope for those who are struggling with mental illness and suicidal thoughts. For the vast majority of people, there absolutely is. If you are experiencing thoughts of suicide, please reach out for support. If you are feeling unsafe, please call a local crisis support line, or go to your nearest emergency room department.

[@thezincbar]

I've been checking back on this video to read comments. I do believe this video is highly irresponsible and have politely said so. I've had great discussions in the comments and received a couple messages thanking me for speaking up. At no point did any of my conversations become tense or disrespectful or heated. I hoped you would respond. Thanks for responding. You state you do not intend to encourage suicide in this video. That's important. But our intentions and impact are not always the same. Your position in this video was for the inclusion of mentally ill people for consideration for medically assisted suicide. Your position in this comment is that before you could support that, "perhaps vast improvements in mental health care need to happen." You do not say that in this video. If addressing disparities in resources and support is "obviously" important, and you completely fail to do that, we have a problem. Stating that the point of the video is "to strike up a conversation" does not mean that the video being incomplete and by extension irresponsible is okay. I also think you fail to consider that many, many survivors of suicidal ideation believe themselves to be in that tiny fraction for whom you advocate this policy would be appropriate. I have yet to meet a sucidal person who did not believe themselves, at some point or other, to be in that tiny fraction. A disproportionate and impossible number of people believe themselves to be in that tiny fraction. Arguably, to be suicidal is to believe yourself to be in this tiny fraction, almost by definition. There is then a huge problem in validating that this tiny fraction exists in a format that provides no follow up individual attention to struggling people. There is no trained counselor here to speak with someone who believes themselves to be in that fraction. You say someone in that tiny fraction should be allowed to end their lives under this policy, but then tack on a disclaimer that they should also go to an ER if they feel suicidal, where they will not be allowed to end their lives, where "arrogant" mental health professionals will not let them end their lives. Your disclaimer does nothing to prevent harm because it goes against most of the content in this video. I'd like to make a comparison. If a creator made a video advocating for the death penalty in the United States, but failed to mention the criminal justice system disproportionately exacts that penalty on African Americans, would you consider that video responsible? If they failed to address the rate of false convictions, would you consider that responsible? Would you accept, "Well, we opened a conversation around the death penalty, but obviously it's complicated," as an excuse when the creator advocates for that position? You fail to address the inevitable result that people who could be helped will die in this system, because no system is perfect. What is your acceptable margin of error? You do not say. You imply such an error would be impossible. I'm disappointed that instead of realizing this video is incomplete in fatally flawed ways, you choose to defend it in a comment and imply these omissions are acceptable, and wash your hands of any harm that could be caused by the video by stating harm is not your intention. Your intention is somewhat irrelevant. The impact is relevant. I urge you to rethink this video. If you have to pin a comment stating that you are not pro suicide, and your audience truly struggles with mental health, and your audience is for the most part reasonable, and you're getting comments warning you that this video is triggering and could encourage a suicide, the issue is with the video and not the audience. To people reading this comment who believe themselves to be in this tiny fraction: I feel the same way a lot. I know how hard it is. But no one knows beyond a reasonable doubt whether that's true for you: not psychologists, not KZbin personalities, not even you. It is more likely than not -- by orders of magnitude -- that you are not in that tiny fraction, if that fraction even exists. Odds are you have a real shot. Your worth is infinite. Your loss would be irremediable. No other you has ever existed, nor will exist. Please don't give up on your life because you think you're in that tiny fraction. Your mental health condition may insist you are in that tiny fraction. It might insist so loudly, every night. But that does not make it true. When did your mental health condition -- the thing causing you so much suffering -- ever tell you the truth? Stay safe. Cause any disruption. Wake people up. You're important. That's the truth.

[@suzannealsop3394]

@@thezincbar I agree. I do support the channel and understand what Lauren and Rob were hoping to create with this video. However, I do believe that with a platform like this in terms of numbers and audience comes greater responsibility.

[@rpink8531]

❤️ ;Be blessed. What a beautiful couple you are- the epitome of hope if there ever was one! Thank you🙏🙏🙏

[@thezincbar]

@@suzannealsop3394 Thanks for saying so. I've received messages and it's really important for triggered people to see comments disagreeing here. I too appreciate Rob and Lauren. I think it's almost impossible to have this conversation in front of an audience without offering follow up care. If I hosted a panel to have this discussion, there's no way I wouldn't have counselors directly available afterwards. I just hope they act and take it down.

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

@@thezincbar Your comment is incredibly arrogant. It takes quite a bit of arrogance to adopt a paternalistic stance and to stridently insist upon policing content for the "welfare" of others who are "vulnerable" and (allegedly) need people like you -- and a mental health professional -- to tell them what to think and feel. The fact that Lauren needs to explicitly spell things out to further clarify matters that have already been made explicit in her video really speaks volumes. People like you are the equivalent of the so-called "pro-lifers" who oppose abortion under all circumstances. I view suicide as a fundamental human right -- as ought to be encompassed by any legal system that respects an individual's right to bodily autonomy and right to self-determination. How an individual chooses to live their life -- or dispose of their existence -- is none of your business. In fact, this decision is solely the business of the person living that life. If someone wishes to die -- for whatever reason -- that's their business alone. I am really impressed by the arrogance of people like you -- who insist that you (and mental health professionals!) know what is the "proper" way of speaking to someone having such thoughts. And, of course, you conveniently set aside -- or otherwise fail to acknowledge -- the professional imposition for mental health professionals to prevent suicide in all circumstances, at all costs -- and the professional liability that a patient suicide carries. It's also interesting how you believe that the best "help" for someone feeling entrapped and seeing no future for themselves is institutional entrapment and psychiatric confinement. Perhaps it would be worth looking at the data -- which clearly shows that inpatient treatment has no effect on mitigating suicidality -- and the several recent meta-analyses, which clearly showed that inpatient psychiatric treatment drastically elevates future suicide risk, with the risk continuing even decades onwards. You take an ideological stance regarding the value of human life -- and insist on shoving it down other people's throats. Many people hold different beliefs; some see the value of life as neutral -- some believe that *all* conscious creatures would have been better off never coming into existence. There's even a philosophical position called "anti-natalism". I enjoyed this video -- in fact, I think that it's one of the best ones that Lauren has posted. I respect Lauren for bravely discussing topics that are unpopular and controversial. The main issue that I have is Lauren's support for involuntary psychiatry -- which I view as a fundamental violation of human rights.

[@madameproblemes6548]

It is torture to be kept alive to be vilified, treated as sub human. I am not able to make a living, not able to live with the dignity and independence I wish I had. Never wanted to be alive. People blame me for my existence constantly, call me entitled and a princess because I simply cannot hold a job. If I'm so bad, then WHY don't they let me finally go back to where I belong, where I always felt I belonged : the void.

[@TheRealxVincent]

I'm a guy but in the same situation because of schizophrenia. My grandparents give me a place to stay for now, but I'm terrified of what will happen after. The stress of a job causes me to slip into psychosis. My last job lasted a month before I was fired because everything I say is taken the wrong way. I'm hoping to be able to at least get SSI so I can get food, but that just makes me feel terrible for receiving government assistance. I'm getting treatment to hopefully be able to hold a job one day, but I literally cannot right now. I'm a great worker in my own opinion (can build, repair, work on cars, computers, etc) but I always end up crossing a line, usually as a joke, and can't figure out what I did, or get physically ill from hallucinations (mostly smell)

[@Picoteful]

Relatable as fuck

[@josiemchannel]

Dealing with this for years. This society isn't built for mental illness. The quote it's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society gets me through some days

[@jackwilson5542]

Same, I even attempted to do so myself. I can't stand this hell. People who "love life" are deluded. I suffer from severe chronic insomnia and can't even drive due to it/medication, yet my upper middle class parents think that I am a spoiled brat using my illness as an excuse. If euthanasia was legal, I would go for it.

[@Crystalsgarden]

I'm in the same place. Have severe depression and anxiety. I'm suppose to be moving now. I helped take care of my mom in her last yrs and am on disability due to mental illness. Not able to work. And most importantly after 51 years not able to see the good in life. I'm having a very hard time with moving. Cannot get myself enough energy physically and mentally to clean and pack. I get so overwhelmed. The house I'm moving out of belonged to my mom and grandma. So I have to go through all of their belongings as well. It's a pretty big house and I look in a room and just get so overwhelmed I have to leave that room without doing anything. Have not yet found a place to live either. I think it's because I just don't want to live, so why care about finding a place to live and also why care about doing anything with this house. If we had the right to die here in the US. I would jump at it in a second.

[@MPG-ub5ke]

There was a young Belgian journalism student with a history of depression. She was granted the right to die, but decided not to use it bc having it as an option gave her the courage to continue fighting.

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

Unfortunately, this is something that the militant "suicide prevention" crowd fails to appreciate. Holding death within one's ready reach is sometimes what makes continuing with life tolerable. I cannot think of a worse approach than taking someone who feels humiliated and entrapped -- and "treating" them by entrapping them in a locked psychiatric unit, perhaps under an involuntary status if they say "no thanks" to an offer of an inpatient "admission" .

[@fohawk871]

This is actually misleading. She did originally decide to continue living, but later on decided to go through with it. I believe she left us in 2015 or 2016

[@MPG-ub5ke]

@@fohawk871 oh whoa shit, I had no idea! 😮

[@micgooflander95]

@@j.h.miretskay3430 Frankly, they may consider it, they just don't care. They want to protect ideas, not people.

[@LifeBehindHandlebars]

a prison becomes a home when you get they key

[@internationalsunshine]

I hope it can be legalised globally. I have been battling depression for 10 years and suicide has always been a struggle for me. But recently I am starting to feel I am ready. I am ready to die now.

[@tracy6568]

Yes me too I've always felt since a very young age am 54 now it's not fair I'm still here

[@koloss4277]

Have you done everything possible to search your joy and reason to live? Have you searched for professional help?

[@davinadavina1331]

@@tracy6568 severe? im a severe schizoaffected

[@chrisinvestigateschrisinve3249]

MDMA try that…..

[@davinadavina1331]

@@chrisinvestigateschrisinve3249 mdma is illegal

[@NavigationForDailyLiving]

My brother died by suicide exactly a year ago. He has schizoaffective disorder and suffered for 22 years. He wanted assisted suicide for many many years. I miss him so much. However, I know he suffered so much and so at least I know he is at peace.

[@AG-xl4hy]

I’m really sorry for your loss and the pain you feel because of his absence.

[@Freyas666]

Only people who either have lifelong mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar or have someone close who struggles with it will understand how bad it is

[@dile5879]

Being alive shouldn't be above quality of life.

[@ekl9573]

👏👏👏

[@masterchiefblank4885]

I have a theory as to why suicide is soo looked down upon

[@sewerpeople346]

I'm 27, I've wanted to die for 21 years. I agree. The fact that people who say they care but also say "you aren't allowed to end things because we will be sad." While knowing that every second is unbearable is torture. I don't hate people and I don't want to ruin a bunch of people's week but damn dude, why can't i get that break?

[@masterchiefblank4885]

@@sewerpeople346 the people that do that are greedy they just don't want to admit it just for their life is sooo great doesn't mean everybody's is the greedy fucks that know not what the mental anguish of wanting to doe and simultaneously being a people pleaser is

[@sewerpeople346]

@@masterchiefblank4885 Eh you can't expect them to I guess. Having that self indulgence thing in your brain would probably help prevent most people from wanting to die. I don't want anything in the world BUT to die, I can't expect them to sympathize with that.

[@sarajane5306]

My sister was paranoid schizophrenic she attempted suicide by overdose several times before eventually hanging herself. People often say its so tragic when people go that way, they can be helped etc. But I say nobody is living in their pain nobody knows how they feel on day to day and everyone has their own life to do with as they please, who is anyone else to say what someone has to do with their own life? It's very controlled to live in a society where we don't have agency over our own life and death.

[@evasartorius9528]

Personally, I am hoping for the day when people can actually have a true cure not just a drug that numbs people so they are not a pest to the outside world.

[@stevenglansberg4448]

@@evasartorius9528 There are many illnesses that have no cure. That's not a very realistic point of view. Mental illness has made a lot of progress in the last 50 years and some progress is a more realistic hope I think. I don't think that people who need to take medication are just being numbed so they arent a pest to the rest of the world. This woman has and a husband and just had a baby, I think she would disagree with you that medication just numbs you so you arent a pest. She doesn't seem numb at all to me, she seems like a normal human being with ups and downs like everyone else. Some have it harder than others sometimes.

[@nicolepayne721]

@@evasartorius9528 I take medication for depression. It doesn't numb me, it has given me the ability to feel a full range of emotions other than despair.

[@evasartorius9528]

@@nicolepayne721 That is good for you. There are time when we all hit the bunkers pretty hard. My issue with any medication is the potential for abuse. That is not just prescription meds They say that even tylenol an reduce your empathy.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

Well stated and sorry for the loss of your sister. You're correct that no one understands others pain or walk in their shoes to say that it's not that bad or they should get help. Many have sought help to end their suffering and pain but it wasn't enough for them. We must be more open in thinking outside the conventional way of thinking regarding life and death matters. We are too personal about someone wanting to end their life because of our emotions, attachment and inconsiderate of citizens having a right to choose their own demise. At least, if citizens had a right to choose their fate, those who are suffering from a debilitating mental illness would lessen the heinous measures that some suicidal victims have undertaken to end their lives. In addition, it will not only give them the freedom to choose, but their dignity would remain intact.

[@vblake530530]

In my 35 years of being a physician in the U.S., working with terminally ill patients (mainly those with cancer) , I have worked with the patient and or their families to withdraw care and allow them to die . On occasion this has included removing breathing tube and giving high doses of sedatives to stop the breathing process. I’ve struggled with the ethics of this on my side of things but do very much feel a person has a RIGHT NOT to SUFFER. I’ve seen such HARD suffering that have prayed for a person to pass on JUST to end their suffering. If you haven’t been a patient, or family member, caregiver, nurse or doctor in this situation, DON’T JUDGE.. After all that preaching I have to say that have NEVER thought about this in the context of Mental Illness NOR have I ever heard another doctor talk about it. Including my wife who’s a Clinical Psychologist. I will be discussing this with members of our Palliative Care and Ethics Teams. My honest answer right now is I JUST DON’T KNOW. In The States, this sort of thing is still HIGHLY regulated and frowned upon. The main stumbling block is the patient COMPETENT to make the call, AND how to define “No Hope of Recovery”? You’ve given me some learning to do. ( YET AGAIN) Victor Blake MD, MTS, FACP. Professor of Clinical Medicine.

[@pennypistilli5441]

I agree that a person should not be forced into treatment when they are dying. My problem is with how the Netherlands is actually implementing the right to die policies. INstead of actually allowing the patient the right to make up there own mind which is the law,the Dr.s decide for them.Also they will withhold medications such as pain meds in order to coerce the patient to make that decision.But it is more common now for the Drs to do what they think is best.

[@GunsNRoses1123]

That has always been My worry that it could lead to doctors making the decition for the patient, it should always be the patients decision because it's their body and life. It's very important that there are laws and it's well regulated in that case.

[@GunsNRoses1123]

With people with mental health issues there is always the risk too that people decide to die because they're not getting the care they should so they lose hope and decid to die even if they don't actually want to. Specially as mental health care is bad and underfunded in most countries.

[@giovannipischedda2837]

I'm not judging, but from a legal perspective Isn't this homicide in the US?

[@vblake530530]

@@tashabryenton2331 So you and I know that feeling when you’re both standing over a dying and suffering patient and say to each other; “Just what the heck are we doing here” . Lord help us who serve him in this way. We are giving it our ALL! I know you know how it is when you leave that hospital, and you got NUTHIN left. Just Nuthin’. My RESPECT to you. None of us gives of themselves like ICU Nurses.

[@SunshineStrchld]

"I think we need to be really careful when we assume mentally ill people aren't capable and take away their right to advocate on their own behalf"

[@montesa9136]

EXACTLY! I lived a hopeless depressed life. I'm now 63 years old. What more does anyone need to know?

[@sewerpeople346]

@@montesa9136 I'm 27 and I've wanted to die for 21 years. I am going to be 67 and will have hatred every second of every day for 61 years.

[@montesa9136]

@@sewerpeople346 @Sewer People - have you considered Physician Assisted Suicide? I'm going to be doing it .....

[@stephaniewilson5284]

My scitzoaffective disorder has given me unbearable suffering. Its a miracle that I keep moving forward after enduring what I have endured. I believe in having a choice in these situations to live or die. I deserve body autonomy. We ALL do. My meds dont stop all my symptoms and never have and destroyed my body. I have almost died literally and if I had a choice I wouldnt have stayed here but I wasn't given a choice I had to come back. So maybe there is some unknowable reason I belong here on earth though at times it seems extremely cruel.

[@qjtvaddict]

@@stephaniewilson5284 wow

[@malgorzatamaher9700]

Yes. Medically Assisted Dying should be allowed to mentally ill people. I have a bipolar 1 disorder, and I know first hand how debilitating and painful mental suffering can be. At times it is just unbearable. We should be more like the Neverlands and Belgium, forward thinking, be open to dialogue about death and assisted dying, and most importantly we should listen to the mentally ill who are the ones that suffer on a daily basis.

[@-MaryPoppins-]

People WILL take their own lives, no matter if it’s “legal” or not. The only difference is if we’re willing to give them the best, most peaceful death possible, or if we’re still going to continue finding our loved ones hanging or collecting their literal brains off the floor. Your life is your own. I pray you all find peace and pure happiness, but if a time comes where your suffering is not going to be medically curbed, I also pray you receive the end you deserve❤️

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

Thank you.

[@-MaryPoppins-]

@@j.h.miretskay3430 I mean it hun❤️ no matter if I don’t know you, you still deserve full autonomy over yourself and your life. I hope you’re happy and healthy!

[@swiftkarma4436]

Beautiful response

[@-MaryPoppins-]

@IIWII we award that to our fur babies, and I think it’s ACTUALLY cruelty to force someone to suffer due to your own preserved issues.

[@jeremyfrost1801]

I absolutely AGREE 💯! ...It REALLY pisses me off that my fellow Conservatives DONT! (It's NOT the same as abortion it's MY LIFE & MY choice!!!)

[@pl-mn2ro]

Everyone is entitled to their own destiny and that includes living and dying

[@swiftkarma4436]

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@atpvnh6856]

THANK YOU

[@cathy7382]

I disagree only God should decide

[@ashesashesweallfalldown7171]

​@@cathy7382 god? Really you're gonna let the guy who decides that people deserve to starve or be raped to death have the final word? If God is real their the most sadistic cruel being that's ever existed.

[@bathsheba9581]

@@cathy7382There is no god.

[@thejanitorssweeps5883]

I'm 50 years old and lived with mental illness since I was a child, over 40 years. It doesn't get better the older I get. 20 plus years of treatment has not helped.

[@meadowlarkb.427]

I have been on meds and in therapy for 40 years. I exist. I see no point to the effort.

[@user-dm1zs3xr5u]

I just wish it didn't take 6+ months on a waiting list, or an absolute emergency, to get to talk to a therapist.

[@jacquelineleitch7050]

Huge asterisk

[@MeganZopf]

Yup!! I’m with you there!

[@clerictamer]

Yes !!!!

[@clerictamer]

Ive been to about 14 therapists so far, with no real results or relief.. i know what the end is, im just trying to avoid the inevitable

[@jacquelineleitch7050]

Getting along with a therapist is very hit and miss. But you will discover quite a bit about yourself when you start to analyze why you do or don't get along with the therapist. If you have a reasonably good one this can be part of your work.

[@Nimue333]

I think everyone should have the right to end their misery 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

[@henny8069]

Theres always a chance to get betyer

[@mrsdragonite]

@@henny8069 and there's always a chance it won't.

[@revokdaryl1]

@@henny8069 LOL it won't get better, mate. Things can't get better when your environment goes to hell. The world is falling apart and it's never going to get better. Natural resources are running out. It's hopeless.

[@documentedrecords5364]

@@henny8069 Yeah. Just like there's always a CHANCE you might hit the lottery.

[@whatayaDO543]

@@documentedrecords5364 exactly, the only REAL reasion i chose to live is i want to see the world in anarchy, after that I hope to die in it. the world is painfully boring, but I wish to see world war 3 before i go.

[@stephaniewilliams7386]

Many of my family members, including myself, suffer with severe mental illness. The kindest thing a friend ever told me, was that she would never wish for me to die, but she would understand if I chose to. For almost a decade I struggled with the ups and downs and ins and outs of psychosis and disorganized thinking. Add to it the vulnerabilities that many, if not all mentally ill people face, and the trauma that can result in, and I was in a very bad place for a long time. I was bullied and called “crazy”, taken advantage of, and ultimately abandoned. My family told me that they did not want to hear about my struggles with suicidal ideation, psychosis, and depression. They told me that they had no empathy for “a quitter”, and if I had received that message while I stood on the overpass I couldn’t walk away from at the time, or any of the other situations I found myself stranded in, feeling backed into a corner, I would’ve jumped. It is painful enough to say, “my life will never be ‘normal’, many of my dreams will never come true, and more days than not, it hurts to breathe, and I can’t do it anymore.” Without the added shame or insurmountable anxiety of having to make sure it works, make sure your affairs are in order, make sure you say enough for everyone else to know that it isn’t their fault. To pile judgement and excessive/ poorly constructed legalities on top of all of that is... well... inhumane. I never comment on anything at all, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart for making this video. My grandmother suffered from severe schizophrenia, and after graduating medical school at the top of her class.... disappeared and was found living under a bridge decades later. She had tried to kill herself, and she should’ve been given the right. My mothers foster mom was the brightest most intelligent, wonderful person, and she got hereditary Alzheimer’s, and the only thing she ever said to me about it, was that she couldn’t bear the thought of losing her mind, or of her family remembering her as anything other than exactly who she was- and she would like to die by her own hand, should that ever be her circumstance. Both of those people deserved so much more dignity than they received. Thank you so much for being brave enough to speak sensitively and openly on such matters.

[@clerictamer]

Thank you for sharing this

[@jessicajones6271]

Thank you so much for sharing your perspective and your vulnerability. You put into words some of what I have dealt with myself but couldn't fully express. The shame and guilt exacerbates the existing illness and that kind of treatment, especially from your own family, is cruel. I hope that you have found support elsewhere. What that friend said to you is so compassionate and kind. I recently went through an experience where I told a friend about ideation, and he completely changed the subject without even acknowledging what I had said. It's incredibly isolating when people don't understand or even want to deal with you. Your comment, along with this video, really gave me hope that there are people out there who can offer real compassion and support without the added judgement. Thank you.

[@ookipuki]

I just wish the world was better and helped people more rather than forcing them to do things . I love you as a person who is essential and loving , incredible and I'm so very sorry you have so much pain.

[@ookipuki]

As someone who is in a relationship with a severely mentally ill person, abd who also has a family who doesn't want to hear or deal with it... I hear you. Abd I want to fucking hear you and more people need to care. I'm falling asleep currently trying to confirm my partner over the phone this very minute. I love you so much and wish you could feel it. I want all people to feel love even if it hurts them. I wish I could help you and all the people I love. Somehow I think and hope it will be okay

[@swiftkarma4436]

Thank you

[@bmwbabe3]

Living with mental illness is so hard, and is made harder still by the fact that it carries the baggage of these stigmatized experiences that are so profoundly unpleasant or impossible for us to talk about- but you’re talking about them. What a breath of fresh air. Thank you. 😭❤️

[@evasartorius9528]

Yes, they do a wonderful job of shinning the light in the dark corners.

[@WPDClips]

Yea you wish you could just rip it out of you.

[@absaloj]

You are not alone. Sending you love.

[@AndrewNation13]

We are All mentally ill from being locked in our homes for years... what medication should we all take? Too late to diagnose what's left for living citizens... if you're still alive I commend you for your strength, for God's sake keep going

[@absaloj]

As you grow up and mature. Our hearts are more empathetic to people who just hurt in general. We care about other peoples struggles because even people who might not have mental health. We live in a society that are careless about how we interact. If you have something to say. Say it to someone who have a genuine desire about you. As I mature. I care to listen more than talking myself. It’s part of what makes us human. I hope that whatever your going through I want to listen to you and all we can do is better listeners and have a bettter understand about mental health and that you’re not alone. I’ll pray for you and pray for healing ❤️‍🩹. Send you the good vibes.

[@alondrab4064]

People with severe chronic depression should have the right to die by assisted Suicide No one deserves to be tortured for years it is a real nightmare

[@rael.5967]

AMEN.

[@maureencameron4120]

I'm a physician, but I'm also someone who has major depression that has not favorably responded to any of the treatments I've tried, and they've been extensive, including ECT, prolonged hospitalization, dozens of medications, and therapy. My current depressive episode has been going on for four years. While I have a strong will to live, and really do not want to die, I think MAID (medical assistance in dying) should be an option for mental health patients who continue to suffer terribly, if they have received what would be considered optimal treatment over a prolonged period of time for their particular illness. As you were saying in the video, no one should have to die in an undignified fashion, or completely alone.

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

Thank you for saying this!

[@CanadianMum444]

I’m so sorry that you are going through this experience on this side of life, when you’ve likely helped so many people, it doesn’t feel fair. I wish it were, but mental illness doesn’t have a discriminate side, so even good decent people suffer unbelievably. I have been one of these people also. It should have some “checks & balances” as was sad, but it’s completely unfair to not consider those of us with chronic pain thst likely will kill us mentally before it ever would physically, but also depression etc. And if we do develop mental illness and Then terminal or unrelenting cancer, for example, does this then make us ineligible to have the right to medically assisted freedom from further suffering due to our mental status? So many questions. I’m thinking of you and I hate feeling alone, I hope maybe it’s the one thing you even at times don’t feel? Thinking of you regardless.💜

[@venus67venus]

It’s really powerful of you to share this! I wish you the absolute best in life! ❤️🌿

[@kenjones7719]

Try Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT). Failing that, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy is worthy of a try, preferably with psilocybin or LSD. The catch with psychedelics is that one would have to withdraw from antidepressant medications beforehand, and that can take at least 6 weeks.

[@maureencameron4120]

@@kenjones7719 I've been trying to access psilocybin assisted therapy, but here in Canada at least, it is not readily available. It's still illegal in most cases, except in a few palliative patients who are terminally ill. I also have no idea how I'd ever get off all my psychotropic meds, as I'm on several of them. Psilocybin does sound very promising though, and I'd really love to be able to try it.

[@hp127]

As a person living with suicidal thoughts for twenty years I thank you for this. A lot of medication dulls me but the feeling is always there. Contrary to popular belief in the Netherlands it is not really assisted.

[@evasartorius9528]

Have you tried medical cannabis? The CBD? I use it for arthritis and it has lifted my mind takes a while but the effect lasts longer too.

[@juliantn]

I'm sorry, all the best.

[@45Thesecret]

May you have peace

[@xxthatsnotmexx]

@@evasartorius9528 I use medical Marijuana and I still struggle with depression, it helps but it's not a cure all.

[@willmorgan1093]

what do you mean that it's "not really assisted"?

[@xfreyawatson]

1 in 10 of us with bpd die by suicide- I don’t know how different that would be if doctors and therapists were more equipped to help those of us with bpd, because we are often turned away and seen as ‘too much’, but it truly scares me to know how many of us with bpd would most probably choose that option

[@qjtvaddict]

Probably 7 in 10

[@matthewcrome5835]

@Darryl Grimes I have Asperger's/autism, and if that statistic is true, that really scares me. ASD can be really isolating.

[@xxthatsnotmexx]

I have bpd, I feel like I don't have any support because no one really gets it.

[@carriepoppy]

I suppose the answer is whatever additional number of people with BPD find their lives unbearable.

[@shimmers]

You’re not alone

[@mrs.noodles]

The right to die is my perogative. It's my decision, my life, my autonomy. Life isn't precious. It's completely random. Other people's religious beliefs have no bearing on me or my experiences. Suffering is suffering is suffering. It's not a competition. It's highly subjective and if I've decided I can't take any more, I'm going to end it. Can things get better? Is there hope? There can be. But not for everyone. Adam's story is doubly tragic because he wasn't afforded a dignified death simply because he was mentally ill. That's discrimination. I'm sure he would have much preferred to be in a medically supervised setting, where he was comfortable and was surrounded by his loving family. But he wasn't allowed that. If you want someone else to continue to suffer because medical assistance in dying isn't something you'd choose for yourself maybe you should take a step back and consider the fact that it's not about you. Thanks for bringing up this topic, Lauren and Rob. Well done.

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

Amen to this * 1,000,000. It's incredibly obnoxious when people impose their religious beliefs upon others. It's also amusing that the people who are so keen on "suicide prevention" also oftentimes oppose universal healthcare and support the death penalty.

[@trixiebaldwin5458]

I've struggled with chronic suicidal ideation since 1996. There hasn't been a time during these past 25 years that it's gone away completely. It's just always there - sometimes passive, sometimes much more acute, and several times it led to suicide attempts. I've thought a lot about the topic of medically assisted suicide. If it was an option, I'd already be dead. I have no quality of life. There's no joy left in it. All I can see is the suffering. I tried many, many different medications over the years. None helped. Some made it far worse. I worked with numerous therapists. These last few attempts at therapy were, simply put, traumatizing. I live under the constant threat of homelessness and starvation, yet society deems me lazy and disposable due to my disability which I can't even re-prove since healthcare simply isn't an option for me where I live any longer. I'm told I'm coping just fine and there's nothing wrong with me despite struggling immensely through a mostly catatonic depression, debilitating anxiety and inability to leave my house, and psychotic paranoia that won't allow me to trust anyone. Pets are treated more humanely in the United States than humans. I feel I deserve the right to die with dignity as much as a dog or a cat.

[@micgooflander95]

You should have that right, and it's barbaric that society still denies you it. Your feelings and your welfare should be the things that are most valued in a humane society. It shouldn't just be a case of making sure that your heart is beating at all costs, even when life is torture for you. I've been constantly suicidal for pretty much the same span of time as you, although the rest of my history differs from yours.

[@shimmers]

You’re not alone

[@santabala6314]

You are not alone.

[@evanlutz7071]

Do you have any kind of support system? Family or friends who can help you feel less alone and despairing?

[@pureenergy4578]

Trixie sweetee, I plan to leave this earth floating in a very warm, beautiful ocean. After I take all those pills, what is called death will be great. When we leave these bodies, we will see we have been eternal light the whole time, proven by quantum physics. Just get the book HANDS OF LIGHT written by the physicist Barbara Brennan. Just look at the pictures of what we all look like as eternal holograms and eternal electrical energy fields. This book will cure you. Then you will have the energy to go show everyone else this book. Become a healer. You can do it.

[@michaelblankenau6598]

People always say suicide is a cowardly act . I think the opposite is true . To take ones own life seems to take courage in my opinion .

[@-MaryPoppins-]

Definitely depends on the situation, but for the most part, I agree. Cowards are those who harm others then to avoid paying for their actions, take their lives. THAT is cowardice. Not someone suffering to the brink of death.

[@michellebastiani6470]

I agree but on other hand I also think that it can be a very selfish Act depending on the person of course and things they have going on in their life at the time.

[@Eva-lo4eq]

I think it's kinda selfish if you think that the one who commits suicide leaves behind the ones who love him (family usually) when he knows that they will suffer with his loss and things won't be the same in their life anymore

[@michellebastiani6470]

@@Eva-lo4eq My feelings as well. My father committed suicide right after I turned 13. What me and my mother were left with is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

[@-MaryPoppins-]

@@Eva-lo4eq if they WERE thinking that way, it would make sense. But people who are suicidal don’t think people will miss them. That’s the reason they choose to go.

[@user-br2dw8no4r]

I lost a loved one to suicide. I wish it could’ve been prevented, but knowing that their last moments were filled with intense physical pain is just unbearable to think about. It shouldn’t have to be like that

[@dapperdoggy]

I feel that Alzheimers should be considered as well. People before they become impaired should be able to make the decision about euthanasia..

[@evasartorius9528]

NOOOO! I have seen staff in long term are patients who thought they were demented and they weren't. And many people would be too far gone to agree before their loved ones were in peril. Staff gets pretty freaky too. They said this one woman had stopped eating what they meant is that they had stopped feeding her. This is a mess- end of life care for seniors and even people who have handicaps need to be protected.

[@-MaryPoppins-]

@@evasartorius9528 right, but it’s up to the person. Robin Williams is the perfect example of dementia being a solid reason. He had to hang himself in order to stop what was to come. You have no idea what those people are going through. Though I do agree that we 100% need better healthcare for our elders. Way WAY WAAAAAAAAY too much goes on behind closed doors that should never be allowed. Hence why my family knows I will always be there to take care of them as they grow older.

[@nonakabyrd5759]

Although I agree, but it should be present in a living will proir to mid-stage. That way family is not influenced by their desires but it is something the patient has previously discussed with their doctor.

[@nonakabyrd5759]

@@evasartorius9528 feeding, wow, ya...don't think people are aware of how functional they might be when they no longer sit at the table and need the encouragement to eat. Retired Dementia Unit Director here. I let my staff follow people around and hand feed them. I would ask the family to reconsider or discharge to home, because I would not allow my patients or my staff to endure starvation. I would agree to only hydration when on hospice, if that's what the family decided. Its about dignity in dying, not about causing the death of a patient. There isn't enough information about Dementia which the public knows, until its trusted on them.

[@dapperdoggy]

@@nonakabyrd5759 So true

[@v838monocerotis9]

Over the years it has become increasingly apparent that I am broken beyond repair. I would rather cut my life short than to live out the rest of my natural life like this.

[@eshiboo]

Hey, I'm sorry to hear that, but I understand. Whether you're broken beyond repair or not, your suffering is real. Whatever happens, know that there are people who do understand and will respect you no matter what you decide for yourself.

[@outoftheklosset]

I know I don't know you but I'm glad you're here. *hugs and support* ❤️ My heart is with you.

[@jacquelineleitch7050]

Just because you demand a.perfect world will not make it one. Pick a thing that you can do that will make your life better and do that. Then something else will occur to you after a time.

[@musa2775]

You just made me read up on a spectroscopic binary star system. You may be broken but you also have beauty inside you. Thank you for sharing it by virtue of existing in your own way. I wonder what else you'll have to share in this blink of a life we get. Love to you.

[@outoftheklosset]

Thinking about you today.🤓

[@OldChannelNoSee]

It's your right to choose if you are able to continue living or not. I promised to stay around for my mom but one day she will leave me too and when that happens, I have no reason to continue. Every day is a constant struggle. Every day is filled with pain and I'm tired of it. No one has the right to tell me I must keep going. Idk. My take.

[@eshiboo]

No one has the right to tell you that you must keep going on. Your body, your mind, your life, your choice. If my friend told me they were planning their own death, I would tell them that I love them no matter what, and that I'll do my best to be there for them regardless of what they decide. Why wouldn't I try to encourage my friend to get help? Because police physically restrained me for being suicidal. And as far as their concerned, they did their job. But my quality of life was even worse than before, I still wanted to die but I was so afraid of waking up strapped to a hospital bed covered in bruises.

[@OldChannelNoSee]

@@eshiboo I was shot in the face with a taser to stop me from taking my life. They didn't bother to help, just made things worse. I wouldn't wish the police on anyone. They don't know how to help.

[@persona-wo8bi]

Respect your view. I think everyone has their own life and a right to "their own view". I am not advocating anyone to do anything but... MY take? I have always loved life, had a good life, loved myself, others, etc etc... Actually didn't have any noticeable mental issues. Very, very grateful for that. However, ever since I got diagnosed with Sz in my early 20s that all changed. I would feel kinda hypocritical, if it wasn't such a chemical change. Im certain that if I wasn't ill, I fully believe I would always try to address and fight most any issues in life, but the current level of disability is personally unbearable. And science hasn't got to the point of treating my symptoms, even though hopefully we might be getting there. Everyone has a breaking point. Personally I'd rather go, then spend my days complaining and constantly suffering and being a burden.. without a chance to fight to change things. It wasn't ever my personality to spread those kind of vibes. I'd rather take out the band-aid. As far as I'm concerned I already died back then. If my abilities are taken, if I can't make an impact on others and if I can't get better... I don't see a purpose. I really relate to Adam on that sense, dude really didn't seem like he hated life or ever wanted to die.. just the dissonance between his disability and potential became unbearable, chronic and ultimately meaningless. Now.. again, that's just apparently MY experience at the moment. Illnesses aren't the only factor here, it's a combination of the illness with people's circumstances and personality. I'm SURE there are people who are (subjectively) way worse off than me and keeping on, and I find that commendable. I sincerely hope there's hope out there for anyone who wants it, and sometimes I try to seek it for myself too.

[@OldChannelNoSee]

@@persona-wo8bi I can say my childhood and indeed my life in general has been hell. I'm not just exaggerating either. After so long with such a hard life, I already gave up. I gave up a long time ago. Just waiting for the day I'm no longer needed to take care of my mom and then I am out. Idk. Until then though I'm around. I still help people the best I can. I still go out of my way to ensure people are safe and happy. I want to do good until I'm no longer around.

[@persona-wo8bi]

@@OldChannelNoSee you sound like a very good person. In fact I'm pretty sure of it otherwise you wouldn't say anything like that. Its weird, a lot of times I find that people who deal with these mental struggles also have a lot of kindness, compassion and intelligence. Not always of course, but it happens fairly often. And then there's very bad people who seem perfectly content. In a ideal world, Mental illness should work as a kind of a punishment. How great would that be? Also would be great if something like Elon's neuralink really showed some promise.

[@chibixio]

As someone who has struggled with suicidal thoughts in the past and has been suicidal-thoughts-free for a couple of years now, even after getting so much better from my mental illness, I totally agree with Lauren. I truly believe in every person's right to decide.

[@enoch4499]

I had counselors use emotional manipulation when I confided about feeling suicidal. Needless to say, I didn't see those counselors anymore. People need to be validated and accepted, not made out as a criminal.

[@adolfosilva3883]

Kudos to you both for having the guts to speak on this topic and not infantilize people.

[@magicmagalie9667]

As much as it breaks my heart for a loved one to come to suicide, it's worse for it to happen messily and/or without warning.....

[@Lynn_Clifton]

Every time I come to your channel my entire world view of mental illness changes for the better - I feel enlightened every time. My mother suffered from severe depression for decades and eventually ended her life in a very very awful and lonely and undignified way. I have NEVER been "mad" at her for it. It has always bothered me greatly when people say that committing suicide is a selfish act - it's not a selfish act at all. It's the act of someone no longer being able to bear the pain that even breathing is. It's an act of self preservation - it truly is. I have also had my own personal struggles with suicidal ideation and the one thing I noticed is that when I would reach out to a friend or family member about it the immediate reaction was of discomfort and fear. I kept thinking "I'm trying to do what you're suppose to do in this situation, reach out for help, and no one is helping." It was hard for me to understand then, and even a bit now, that it wasn't that they didn't care or that they thought less of me, it was because they were completely and totally unaware of how to help. It's fear of saying the "wrong" thing and feeling horribly responsible if things took a bad turn. Maybe if those of us that are approached for help are more equipped with the tools of compassionate listening instead of panic mode, which often results in forced psychiatric in-patient care at institutions that are more like prison than anything that could be associated with the term "care" facility, those of us that are experiencing suicidal thoughts and feelings might feel a little less alone in their dark times. Thank you so much for being as brave as you are and sharing your very needed insight. You are an amazing woman. Every word that you share here makes the world a better place.

[@sylvesteruchia5263]

Your life, your choice. Honestly do whatever you want. I believe it should be covered under health insurance.

[@Llijie]

Unfortunately a big part of the conversation around suicide that people with mental illness have with their counselors, therapists, psychiatrists etc is overshadowed by the liability of losing a client to suicide. I think this prevents a lot of mental health professionals from having more nuanced conversations on suicide

[@jaelwashburn]

I couldn't agree with this more. I can understand why counselors are afraid of liability, but their fear of my potential suicide has ultimately caused far more suffering for me and really caused me to want to do it worse.

[@wiremotherclothmother]

If you mean legal liability, that's a near-baseless fear. Recovering damages from a licensed medical professional who actually causes real injury is a terrifically difficult task. Malpractice insurance is another very lucrative scam in the medical industrial complex. The bitterness with which your clinicians regard this cost of doing business is almost comical.

[@sarahmeyers1773]

@@wiremotherclothmother I would assume they meant reputation damage as a liability for getting new clients. Like the suicide is the therapist’s fault.

[@kellykilander1885]

If you feel that way about your therapist you need to be looking for another one

[@jp6614]

My experience the system, makes people worse, and I see a link of drugs that may lead to the genocide on the streets of North America.

[@sourgummiez]

Here in California they passed the law with the right to die, then took it back 2 years later!!!! I think people should have the right, *WITH* a process before it and clarifications to meet and it shouldn’t be rushed, everything should be gone over with the person

[@PunkBunny56]

I work in the death industry. Suicides regardless of physical or mental illness are always difficult. The trauma the to family, the people who find the body, and to the body itself is always there. I’ve had families not be able to properly mourn their loved one because the body was deemed unviewable.

[@tylergannon7398]

I agree, making people live in a state of pain without dignity so that ithers can selfishly keep them alive for their own emotional well being shouldn’t be how we do things

[@SunshineStrchld]

@@PunkBunny56 when I was suicidal part of my plan to prevent my family from finding my body was to simply call 911 before and let them know im killing myself and where i am at and instantly putting the phone down (volume down the whole time so I can't hear them I didn't want to have to justify my actions I just wanted to let someone know im doing it ti prevent family from finding me)

[@muirgirl]

@@SunshineStrchld It's wonderful you survived that crisis and are able to share your experiences on a platform like this- the YT community is so much better for frank discussions about these things, but I do want to mention how traumatizing and impactful these completed suicides are on the first responder community. Even within Search and Rescue OPs, first responders on scene are often DEVASTATED (some into mental health crises like the ones we are discussing: suicide, psychosis, depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc.). Not saying you were dismissing this per se, but in case someone reads this who hadn't thought that over it could be a "reason" (shred of hope whatever) that keeps an individual from attempting suicide. Even if one person is positively impacted in this way I feel it''s worth discussing.

[@freeeggs3811]

@@ateez_stan777 screw booking an appointment, it should be an 24/7 walk in clinic.

[@tinytealeaves]

This is something I think about often. I don't understand why I have to stay and suffer, just to ... be. When I don't want to Be. I am so tired. I want to rest. I want to not have to suffer just because someone else might remember I existed some day and want something from me. I wish there were a way I could slip away and know that no one else was mad at me for choosing to stop it. I wish there were a place I could even just crawl away for years, a decade, any maybe it'll hurt less to experience existence. It's such a complex and delicate subject.

[@Meowster89]

I can relate and agree.

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

I agree!

[@anikag4834]

you’re so good at writing. I went through the other comments and somebody said something like “everybody should search for the thing he/she is good at (and try several other ways for...staying alive)”. And you are definitely awesome in writing. So maybe you want to share some of your words (maybe a book with thoughts oder anything you’d like to write about). I’m sure some people would love to read it. So would I..

[@eshiboo]

This is exactly how I feel. You should be allowed to rest without people judging you for making that choice for yourself. You don't owe anyone anything. I just want you to know that I see you, and your experiences and feelings are valid even though there are few people who would agree. I hope you can find what your looking for, whether through a change in your quality of life or if you manage to crawl away for a few years, or with whatever choices you make. You don't deserve suffering. You deserve peace.

[@jacquelineleitch7050]

Sounds like you need a new place to live where to you have more autonomy and a time to meditate and take carenof your existence and not others.

[@brigitpimm8488]

A video like this is progress. It is such a relief to hear people discuss it in a sensitive but objective way.

[@MelBlossom]

Thank you for saying this! Ive been saying it for decades and people are so selfish and ignorant they don't understand or care. It's not them suffering so they don't care and they won't help or pay for help. People suffering should be allowed to die with dignity.

[@sarahd6123]

Any adult who is suffering physically and/or mentally should be allowed to die. If a person with mental illness can show that they have tried various treatment options, without success, they should be allowed to die with dignity. A lot of people say things like “but it will cause pain to friends and family” but what about the suffering person? Should they have to live in order to keep friends and family happy? I think not. That’s not fair. If death with dignity isn’t an option, then the suffering person has no choice but to die painfully, undignified, and alone.

[@chingli528]

I agree that one should be allowed to die with dignity but I do not agree with active euthanasia.

[@santabala6314]

I agree absolutely!

[@chingli528]

​@IIWII I'm not sure what you mean. Why do you think that should be an option instead? Are you saying that instead of physician-assisted suicide people should be given things to allow themselves to take their own lives? I personally don't agree with active suicide in any form, whether physician-assisted or self-delivered.

[@Xx-xk7xu]

Most effective suicide attempts aren’t planned. Making assisted suicide an actual legal option for people and making them go through the process of being eligible for that, will probably give most of them enough time to give up. Kinda reminds me about the legalisation of abortion arguments. We aren’t pro death, we just want people to have dignity and do what’s best for them without unnecessary pain.

[@nate2838]

^^This.

[@RashidaBlake]

I’m glad you covered this topic, thanks. Because I think people do not understand or minimize the struggles and suffering of the mentally ill. They barely understand death with dignity for the terminally ill, much less people who are struggling with their mental health.

[@jonathanedwards8830]

I agree we always get misunderstood and people don't understand we have to play like we're normal. It's a invisible disease. I can understand why people end there own misery. The happiest people that make others happy are the most saddest in life

[@minivegan]

Thank you for this video. My ex-husband and I used to argue about this a lot. I have struggled with severe anorexia nervosa for 23 years and had over 40 hospitalizations. Even when I would get to a healthier weight it was utter torture to live from day to day with the thoughts, obsessions, and need to constantly exercise. I always said if it were an option to pursue medically-assisted death rather than starve to death I would have done it. Fortunately, I was able to spend a year in treatment and I am in a better space, I still struggle, but I am not at a weight where I am in danger. I know many people I have met in treatment who still cycle in and out of inpatient care - some for over 40 years. It seems unfair to force someone to live that way if they no longer wish to. I know this is a polarizing topic, but if someone comes to the decision to have assistance with dying with a treatment team, that should be respected. I appreciate you opening up this conversation.

[@eshiboo]

I think your situation exemplifies why some people feel that people with mental health disabilities shouldn't be granted the right to assisted dying. The argument is that, "Well what if one day you're in a better place?" Why should I endure endless, unbearable suffering in the unlikely event that one day things improve for me? Like you said, people's choices should be respected. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@minivegan]

@@eshiboo Yeah, it's still hell, but it is better than it was. And, unfortunately, I am a rarity. Most of the people who have had anorexia as long as I have passed away due to a heart attack or suicide or are still in and out of a stream of treatment (if they have insurance). I wish that palliative care was more acceptable for people with severe and enduring eating disorders and other mental illnesses. It really should be okay for people to explore the option that is right for them with their treatment team and family, or at least be able to have that discussion! Thank you for your comment!

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

@@minivegan Thank you for saying this. Forcing people to stay alive when they don't want to live is both incredibly bizarre and incredibly cruel. If anything, I suspect that eliminating involuntary treatment for suicidal ideation and making MAID more readily accessible would encourage more people to seek treatment and improve the quality of countless lives.

[@nimu04]

Thank you so much for being bold and open-minded enough to table this discussion. As someone who's battled suicide ideation for the better part of my life, I live by the words, "Suicide is not a dirty word". A phrase I coined after years of viewing what's a legitimate symptom of several mental illnesses as a personal failure or immorality. Suicide is NOT a moral issue and neither should it be a source of self-shame, people with severe asthma tend to get numerous attacks throughout the year, right? No one shames them for "getting sick too many times" neither do people shame a patient who's at the tail-end of their fight with a terminal illness for desiring it to all be over. Suicide ideation is a SYMPTOM, not a willful decision. A number of people who die by suicide often do so out of shame of having such thoughts in the first place so if we normalize people actually sharing that they are or have been feeling suicidal, heck even how they wrote that final letter and how they've thought about executing it, it not only de-escalates the situation but lets the person know that they're not only loved and accepted because they're trying to stay alive but especially when they're tired and want out. Destigmatizing suicide for myself has allowed me to live very freely and comfortably with this voice in my head that's now really quieted down without trying to eradicate it - a formal diagnosis and medication have also completely changed my life. But I understand not everyone gets this breakthrough: not everyone's medication regimen works out and therapy may not work for some and so forth. So I deeply respect that and still consider those who experience suicide ideation and/or die by suicide (whether assisted or not) as warriors in this journey of trying to live well with mental illness. This is a summed up version of an article I wrote detailing my experiences and journey with suicide ideation: wairimundungu.medium.com/suicide-is-not-a-dirty-word-7d987c579d50 Take care everyone and remember: Suicide is not a dirty word.

[@camagu9201]

Been thinking about this and I agree with Lauren. People don't understand how nihilistic you feel after experiencing something so bad. This is a serious topic. Thanks Lauren.

[@stardolphin783]

I had someone i knew that ended their life and had a super painful illness. I read their journals and they were so much pain, and it was stated he would just have to deal with it cause the pain meds didnt always work, the prognisis was a plateau or declining. I would have understood his choice. I wish we could have all just had a special occasion to say goodbye.

[@layotheleprechaun]

This is a very deep topic not talked about often. Fair play

[@thezincbar]

I respectfully and strongly disagree. I agree that it's not discussed enough. But I thought this video was really irresponsible, for reasons I outlined in my comment. Sometimes, if a topic isn't being discussed on a platform very much, it's because that platform isn't the appropriate space. It's not always a knock on the creators of that platform. Sometimes, it's that many people came to the same conclusion: I am not qualified enough to know how to responsibly address this topic to a mass audience, many of whom may be suicidal. It may not be possible. This channel probably has a higher proportion of viewers who struggle with sucidal thoughts than does the average channel. This audience is especially vulnerable. I'm reading the other comments. I will be interested to see what they say. But I hope the creators realize this wasn't responsible and take this down.

[@myrnahouston5773]

All the more reason to keep this posted! Vulnerable people already feel they can’t talk about this topic. This was done in a sensitive way that also acknowledged the severity and realness of this subject. People feeling suicidal often feel alone and isolated. Not talking about serious issues has never solved anything. Lauren is educated and explained her own past struggles. We need to have these difficult conversations to decrease stigma and isolation

[@thezincbar]

@@myrnahouston5773 I agree with everything you said. We need to have this conversation. I still do not think this video is responsible. I worry that parts of this video could validate a suicide plan and lead to a death. This video made an argument. It came down firmly on one side. The direction to go to the ER, tacked on at the end, was not sufficient to prevent harm. It was somewhat bewildering, given the arguments made. I understand, for instance, they advocated this decision be made with a counselor. They also suggested mental health professionals are plagued by arrogance. So why should I go to a mental health professional, a reasonable person in tremendous pain and contemplating suicide, might ask? You're saying something like this should exist somewhere and start this conversation. I agree. That doesn't make this a responsible forum or video. I also think, from a purely unemotional standpoint, the arguments made here in favor of doctor-assisted suicide were not good ones, and there are good ones. The opposing side was ill-represented. The video doesn't pass intellectual scrutiny. You're making a "13 Reasons Why" type of appeal. It's an important issue, it should be talked about, people suffer alone, etc. That doesn't mean that show opened that conversation responsibly. That show has been linked to a spike in teen suicide. It caused harm. Real harm. Just because a discussion needs to occur does not mean every attempt to discuss it is responsible.

[@hp127]

And please do not take this down. It is important and comes from people like you who care

[@brightbruce3957]

its a 20 minute video. there should be hundreds of hours about this topic on this channel.

[@juannunez512]

People need to accept the fact that not everyone looks at life in the same optimistic views people do. Suicide is the right answer for a lot of people and suicide is okay

[@swiftkarma4436]

So true. Even if one has a happy outlook on life who wants to live forever? Wait a minute you can't.

[@danielholland2716]

For some, suicide is a necessary alternative to acts of social violence. For me, a day doesn't go by in which I don't have violent outburst. This morning, I had another violent episode. If I don't kill myself I'm probably going to kill someone else. I know that's wrong, but I don't care.

[@danielholland2716]

I don't want to hurt anyone. I just have too much hate and rage in me. It's getting worse and worse each day. I anyone should die by my hands, it should be me.

[@danielholland2716]

They say life is precious. Who's life? For me, life is a meaningless waste of time, only to die in the end anyway.

[@qjtvaddict]

@@danielholland2716 just don’t wear a mask and go to the parties

[@charlelyons6090]

This was hard to watch. I’ve never felt more understood in my whole life. My first serious suicide attempt was at 13, my very first one was at age 6. I’m 33 now and I’ve tried 6 times, each one more serious than the one before. I’m in a position right now where I still have some hope and a list of things to try so I’m ok right now. It would help me so much to be able to have a conversation like this with people close to me or my mental health providers. The usual narrative of “live at all costs” is invalidating and isolating. Especially when suffering from debilitating mental and physical health conditions. Just hearing someone else say some of the things I’ve thought has brought me comfort. I finally feel like I’m not alone. You both show a huge level of compassion towards this subject. THANK YOU! Vulnerable conversations like this actually help reduce my SI.

[@lukewilliams7061]

Age 6 wow 😯

[@Natalie-tn9fx]

Thank you for covering this topic and being so open. I remember learning about Adam and others who were involved in this discussion, and as someone who lives with mental illness and has attempted suicide I think having more honest conversations around it shouldn't be as taboo.

Thank you so much for being up-front with this hard topic. Thank you for allowing people know what we mean when we say that we want access to assisted dying. You're a brave couple.

[@Hi_Im_Akward]

I think that when someone seeks help when they experience suicidal thoughts is also very undignified. I remember seeking help and being told I was going to have to be put in a psyc ward, have everything taken away from me including my clothes and phone and basically giving up control over to someone I don't even know to control my care. As someone with PTSD, especially experiencing sexual abuse and major trust issues, it was extremely distressing to me to give up control. I refused to go in willingly. I ended up being able to do an outpatient but it was demoralizing how I was treated, being told I can't be trusted when I came to them asking for help, saying I dont want to commit suicide but I cant get the thoughts to go away and they threatened to strip me of all my rights and identity and safety. It felt like it further stigmatized suicidal thoughts and it further kept me from trusting professionals and feelings a lot of hesitation and fear around seeking help. I personally have felt this point of view. I think that it should be an option for people who are chronically in pain and suffering with no options to get out or change it. I also think that if this was an option, it might also open a lot of doors for people who are experiencing suicidal thoughts to talk to professionals in an environment and in context that does not further traumatize or stigmatize the situation and can open more dialog and trust building for people when they are in this vulnerable place mentally. It doesn't have to mean that everyone considering suicide will gain access to assisted suicide, it would mean that people who are in this place mentally can feel safer expressing how they feel without fear of major traumatic interventions. The fact is that suicidal thoughts are not abnormal. They are the brains warning signals saying that things are wrong either internally or externally. And when the go to is to strap people down and lock them up first and ask questions later, it can further cause damage and fear and trauma. People feeling this way should be able to discuss it with a professional without fear.

[@mattottie6410]

Very important topic, only the person suffering really knows there pain, needs to be talked about a lot more.... took me two years to get thru the last major depression. Thought about it every day.

[@sarah30932]

Thanks so much for making this video. I think about this all the time. I am in the United States, and I don't think we can have a fair conversation about this before we have Medicare for All here. I am suicidal all the time...but I don't have the money to pursue all of my treatment options. There are tons of people like me who shouldn't have to go through this. Thanks so much for having this conversation in a nuanced and compassionate way. Much love

[@caerirylance487]

A great point. Death should be a final option after all other avenues are explored. To do that fairly, those avenues must be available to everyone.

[@Anniekelseyty]

P.s. your baby bump is adorable and still loving your hair

[@A_Casual_NPC]

Ah, I was too afraid to ask about that. That's amazing. :)

[@joeadler5379]

@@A_Casual_NPC I certainly hope. Her baby won't have schizophrenia. Personally I don't think she has schizophrenia I think she's malingering. Also her partner is so ugly. The baby is probably not going to be much to look at. In addition to possibly having schizophrenia. This youngster will probably have. Severe appearance deficits. I like her content she knows a lot about schizophrenia Which I think she's learned from doing her research. She's very informative about this disease I have a lot of people have. But again I'm skeptical of her

[@Cam70868]

I would choose to end my daily suffering. Thank you for this discussion

[@cheyennehawes]

I have depression and PTSD. At one point in my life, should it have been an option, I would have fought for the right to die. The suicidal ideation never stopped, it felt like all day and all night that's all I was thinking about. I wasn't afraid of it, and I was convinced that everyone would be better off without me. Luckily I made it out of that time alive. Now, several years later, I am scared to think about assisted suicide for myself and the rest of the mentally ill community. I don't mean to take anyone's autonomy away and act like I know more about their experience than they do, because I don't, but I could never have conceptualized what my life is like now. I was completely sound in mind during that horrible period except for my lack of hope for my future. And now I am loved, I am stable, I have a successful career, a partner who treats me wonderfully and I finally have access to the support system of health care professionals that I need. I process through my trauma and my life is nothing like what it was then. I am so grateful I made it through that time. I still struggle with my illness but it is so much better managed. I understand that my illness is chronic and at some point in the future I may feel that low again, but I have hope that I will recover and make it to the other side. I don't know how you would quantify one person's experience against another to determine whose experience merits death and whose experience does not. I would hope that someone being told that their specific case didn't qualify would not push them over the edge, but perhaps they would have went through with it anyway by their own means. I hope not. I don't know what's best, but for my own sake, I hope this never becomes an option in my area. I would never trade what I have now for death. But at the time, I would have signed on the dotted line and went through with it. I was not afraid of dying, but I was afraid of living through an attempt and even further worsening my quality of life. If I knew for sure it would work, I would have been okay with it. That's scary to think about.

[@layotheleprechaun]

It's great to here how grateful you are for life after going through what you've been through. You're a strong person. Be proud of yourself! I'm proud of you ☺️

[@haisesasaki3944]

I hear you and I'm so glad that you found your salvation. I'm so proud of you as a person and I hope you spread your light to other people near you. But I really would like you to understand that everybody is different. Everyone have different experiences of the same mental issues and the circumstances they're living in have so much to do with how realistic the hope they build can be. I'm not gonna tell you the story of my life and I know that "there are people out there who has worse life than yours and they came out great", but I'm not them. Hope can be a non-lethal poison for someone who's stuck. For me, I'm doing everything in my power to make the best of my life, but just knowing that there's still an option. An out... somewhere in the future if things got to their limits again, that I won't be feeling any pain again... in itself gives me hope that It won't always hurt. Edit: I just want to point to the fact that I live in a developing conservative country where there's no mental health support other than psychiatrists. No therapists. No awareness. All stigma and hate. The only things that's holding me on my feet rn is my support system of friends and some family members who I'm so afraid that they'll abonden me if I showed them the real me.

[@johnruhland9428]

Hello, I have been in what sounds to me like exactly the same situation as you, I have been exceptionally grateful to the mental health professionals who very patiently nursed me through it, I had started to look into the assisted suicide question and was deterred by the rigors of the process. Today I am in constant communication with one of my daughters and like socializing and playing games and allso discussing with people my experience with some most extreme traumas, even some professionals could not deal with it, but the ones that cared enough helped me. I would have taken assisted suicide much to my heart felt regret and presently lead a life of joy and reward and pleasure, thank you for not making assisted suicide an option. I support your position and agree that there should be more valuable discussion around suicide as it is a part of living. I am scizoaffective 25 yrs, with a renewed love of life. John Ruhland

[@haisesasaki3944]

@@johnruhland9428 Thank you John for your support. As I mentioned in my comment, there's no access to therapy or advanced mental-health care in where I live. For now, I keep my situation under control by the assistance of my psychiatrist and my support system of some family and friends. Hoping that someday I'll get out of here and live somewhere else where help is accessible. There are many uncertainties in my future. I'm 21 suffering from a Mixed Personality Disorder (Borderline + Avoidant), PTSD, OCD and Depression.

[@ExplosiveBolts]

This comment should be pinned.

[@faithwalker5196]

Excellent as always. I’m living with complex PTSD and DID, and I was saying exactly what Lauren was saying a few seconds ahead of her, time after time. And yes, everyone has a threshold.

[@ParadoxHorde]

This is a huge important topic, Canada just pushed bill C7 Which potentially enables ppl with mental illnesses who are not foreseeably going to die the ability to request medical assistance in dying. There are a lot of concerns with how it was pushed despite the lack of social and financial supports for ppl in broader Canadian society that contribute to ppls suicidality. The right to die matters, the right to live also matters and should be supported way better than it currently is, especially considering how poverty can prevent access to critical life supports.

[@MinasMagic]

I completely agree with you. Mental healthcare in Canada needs to be improved...vastly! I'm privileged enough to be able to pay for medications and treatments...though only after sitting on a waitlist for 2 or more years. We all deserve much better than that.

[@pruey]

What a beautifully nuanced discussion about a subject that normally provokes people to withdraw from the conversation. You guys brought up some really valid points.

[@andrewlloyd6160]

Another very helpful video thank you both. My daughter who suffer's from paranoid schizophrenia and has asked me on several occasions to help her to die. As most medications and treatment plans have been exhausted. And she is classed by mental health team's as treatment resistant so this subject is highly relevant to me. Extremely helpful video many thanks All the best to you both 🙂

[@manderse12]

You two are some of the most thoughtful people I've ever encountered on KZbin (or in general). You have obviously have thought through this issue very carefully and have planned this video script with utmost care and caution, as well as with an eye toward balanced treatment of views. I think that as long as the state and local agencies have very careful and precise checks and balances for the process, and that all options have been thoroughly exhausted, death with dignity avenues should be legal for chronic mentally ill patients. I especially liked how you addressed (albeit briefly) the psychological and philosophical reactive attitudes on this issue. Fear and panic have dominated rational discussion of this issue for too long. I hope that you do a follow-up video on this aspect with more detail (if you're interested and willing). The ancient Stoic views on this would be an interesting perspective, as well as more cross-cultural perspectives. Thanks for your excellent content. Peace.

[@Alon3InTh3Abyss]

Suffering is suffering.. at what point do we tell someone that their suffering isn't that bad and they are legally obligated to finish their liflves naturally? What do you tell someone suffering from as long as they can remember.. sexual abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, having no family.. having genuinely Noone? How do you tell someone who has sought out many different therapeutic methods (including handfuls of therapists), medications, support groups.. reaching out for help that never helps? There are ppl that will never feel anything but pain, loneliness.. there are ppl who's minds have been broken and sick for so long since they were little.. just like a dog bread for fighting.. he looks healthy but on occasion, there is nothing you can do bc his mind is sick and he will never be better.. when do we allow people.. actual humans. The right to end their suffering? At what point do we justify that allowing people to be so broken and low and wanting to die that we let them rot in garages from exhaust fumes, letting them be found somewhere with a bullet in their heads.. running into trees at close to or over 100mph suffering alone until they take their last breaths? There are occasions where there is no getting better.. I feel like being allowed to and supported in ending your life in peace with respect and dignity us worth something

[@plainsong76]

I’ve been “existing” with an eating disorder and depression for over 28 years now. I attempted suicide in my late 20s and now, in my mid-late 40s, it’s still something I think about on a daily basis. The problem with people like myself is that there literally is NO TREATMENT for eating disorders unless you have millions of dollars. Insurance won’t even allow me to see a nutritionist unless I have diabetes or renal failure. This dire inaccessibility of treatment is a DISGRACE.

[@NinaM86]

I love that you two are able to have this conversation! I think this needs to be a conversation more people need to have

[@JupiterSun-888]

I firmly believe that those with chronic, serious mental health conditions, should be allowed a compassionate death. Especially when medicative & therapeutic realities are not helping a person to stabilize or allow for functionality & life to be possible.

[@beckyb6115]

After years of suffering in the United States. This past year iv seriously considered moving to one of the country's that support medically assisted suicide; at this time relinquished citizenship of the United States in exchange for all this to finally end.....would be a decent trade. Odds are though I won't follow through and I'll be privy to another 10 or so years of pain and agony before I just decide to scoot one day. Meh not the worst plan (shrugs shoilders) Thanks for speaking out about this and bringing awareness to the subject, it means a lot.

[@Swelouise]

I went to your page and watched a video of yours. I hope you are feeling better now.

[@RinEMV]

I wasn't able to watch this video (the topic is too triggering for me). But I wanted to say that I appreciate you both. Your videos have made me feel less alone with this illness.

[@aikaterineillt9876]

Please never stop speaking about this topic, it is rare to find this perspective and there needs to be a movement in allowing this to be discussed, perhaps leading to an eventual sanctioned option that is universally accessible and humane. As it is, I must die on my own, unable to even say or allow goodbyes as it would only end in my imprisonment in a psych ward, and I’m already trapped inside my own skin, so I can’t risk that. My death will be uncomfortable, lengthy, and possibly painful, because I only have access to one reliable method, which is not my preferred way to go...but the suffering is so bad and has gone on so long that I must just bite the bullet and bring this miserable existence to a close. I wish I had some consolation, I wish I could get things in order and get proper assistance in doing so like the elderly and terminally ill are able to put into place..they are allowed to speak and openly lament, they can make requests and plan out their arrangements, suicidal people do not have that luxury, they cannot speak about it without the warranted fear of it leading to a worse scenario than they are already in. I’m tired of being told to either shut up or get locked up. We are punished for being punished. I am exhausted and I barely have the energy to get up out of bed, never mind put all these end of life matters into place, all on my own, with the stress of already grieving what I could have been, if life and genetics treated me differently. It’s almost never about “wanting” to die, it’s about not being able to live the life you deserve, being barred from doing so by things outside of your control, and so you’re only left with misery that you just wish to end your consciousness of. Until miracles are available for every problem and woe, suicide is and SHOULD be an option. When people go on rants and marches to “prevent” suicide, what they’re really doing is prolonging suffering which they already failed to prevent. Prevent what causes people to lead lives not worth living, don’t take away their only avenue out of hell when you offer no other way of getting them out of there, besides brainwashing and dismissing their predicament.

[@Rustyshack33]

This is such a difficult subject to address and you have done it so gracefully and thoughtfully. Thank you so much for your courage to talk about this

[@Anniekelseyty]

I remember Adam's story!!!! Thank you for bringing him and his fight up in this story.

[@singingbear8768]

Lauren you are always incredibly dignified and at the same time human in your reflections. I am not sure if I approve or not regarding medically assisted suicide, but you present some important arguments that are worth giving at least a second thought to. A fantastic social worker, at heart, you are!

[@Williamtolduso]

Thank you for starting this conversation! I'm fortunate enough to not struggle with suicide ideation, but I was pondering this very subject recently.

[@JesusSaves77799]

Hi, please don’t think about suicide. God has a purpose for your life!! I was very concerned when I saw the title of this video. I am not blaming them for making this video, but the Lord loves you and even Jesus Christ struggled here on earth. There was a purpose for it all! 🙏

[@fairylilytarot5960]

You’re just a deep person look at childhood and teen years what happened

[@randomkiliinterviews9453]

I think that many people with mental illness may not realise that they have a lot to give. Very often, they are exceptionally honest, brave, and creative. I am battling with suicidal thoughts, and I hav ebeen through hell several times, through hell. But I still think I can give something... He who has a why to live for can deal with almost any how. But I do see that there may come a point where it would be an option. I just urge you to find that thing you can give to people. And to try to find people who suffer in a way similar to yours.

[@haisesasaki3944]

Well said. I totally agree. I hope I never find somebody that has been suffering like I am because I went through too much and I don't want to know that someone can endure that much pain but I know that there are way so many people who are suffering like me. I attempted suicide once and just like Lauren said, although now I've been feeling much better I can understand how that version of me was feeling and why he was doing what he was doing. It's really important to discuss this.

[@cleodello]

Or recognize that you don't need to give or be of societal value to be worthy of life.

[@rebecca4257]

I am so grateful that you both are willing to have/start this conversation in such a public space. In the mental health space, especially in the psychiatric treatments we can default to hope. But often there is less empathy and more expectation for you to keep living despite it all. Definitely worth more deep discussions.

[@evasartorius9528]

Well said.

[@eshiboo]

@@cleodello Exactly. Whether I have something to give to others or not, my decision to end my life shouldn't be less valid. It should be my decision. My life, my choice. I don't owe others my continued suffering so that they can maybe benefit from my existence in some way.

[@Em99957]

I have some hesitancy around this topic. My concern starts with the fact that I don't believe mental healthcare in Canada has reached its full potential yet. Until more options and less stigma exists, I feel that the suffering that those with mental illnesses feel could still be subsided with the right help. My other concern is the worry that certain people living with mental illness will experience a minimization in the value of their existence. Because one person living with a certain illness may have vastly different supports and circumstances than someone else with the same illness, and the choice for one of them to end their life shouldn't minimize the value of others living with the same condition.

[@evasartorius9528]

YES

[@tylergannon7398]

I think a big potential problem would be an abuse of this system to essentially trick or pressure the mentally ill into suicide. I disagree that mentally ill people should wait for treatment to catch up. I agree with Lauren on this. Even if you come out of it okay going through unbearable suffering for years against your own will isn’t something you’re necessarily going to look back on and think to yourself that you’re happy you didn’t commit suicide just because you currently are in a good place. Lauren specifically is going to be a parent, has a relationship, has lessened suicidal ideation and schizophrenic symptoms despite all of that she said she would not have been upset if she would have gone through assisted suicide when she was at her lowest. Really think about how much suffering she must have gone through to feel that way.

[@Em99957]

I was hoping you would talk about this! I live in Canada and work in healthcare and have been following this new bill (Bill c-7) very closely. Thanks for your input :)

[@myrnahouston5773]

Thank you for an open and honest discussion of such a sensitive subject that is often avoided.

[@singularity___]

Thank you so, so much for discussing this painful topic. The stigma around discussion/ acknowledgement of suicidal ideation creates so much harm. I know that, for myself, I hid these thoughts from everyone, even mental health providers, because I was afraid of what might happen if I mentioned it and felt like it was something I could never, ever share with anyone else. It made things a lot worse for me, and I think has worsened my prognosis. I don't have the words to describe the weight of experiencing those thoughts day after day after day.

[@VictoriaWoolfrey]

Fellow Canadian here 🇨🇦 You are both so courageous and intelligent for speaking about this topic. You both are an inspiration to me.

[@bellajean6731]

I am a conservative. I think that people should have the right to die. My daughter died from a shotgun blast to the head. She had schizophernia. I didn't want her to die, but I also seen her suffer even with medication. I miss her so much. Now she is not suffering any longer. It makes me upset that a shotgun blast was her way out. If you are not suffering constantly then you would not understand.

[@submarine1090]

Lauren, I just want to hug you :( I can clearly see, how hard it is for you, to talk about this.

[@freudianslip000]

Oh wow, what a beautifully nuanced discussion you two have begun! I truly appreciate the way you've introduced this topic, and the space you've created for complexity and open-ended discussion around a subject that may not have a clear answer. This could easily be an ongoing series on your channel - I'd love to see interviews with activists and/or experts about this. Thank you for your compassion and your gentle approach to this delicate, multifaceted question.

[@MissyTC-86]

My only comment is, I suffered from severe suicidal depression and the option to leave would have been very tempting, but I’m better now, and I’m glad I’m still here

[@ktw70]

Glad you're still here, too!

[@art.of.verser]

I'm glad to see this topic being discussed. Life is precious. Thank you.

[@pinkiesisu]

to you it is

[@cutingirl]

Thank you for having the courage and kindness to have these difficult conversations. Bright blessings

[@MinasMagic]

Thank you so much for shining light on this. I'm a two time suicide survivor. I still struggle with chronic suicidality...so talking is crucial for me...it's the difference between being able recognize myself amid what depression/anxiety/cPTSD is trying to convince me of, and succumbing to the darkness. For me personally, I think having the option to die with dignity, should the day come when my chronic mental illness are too much to bare, would actually be a comfort that would oddly encourage me to keep trying at life...because the desperation, loneliness, and erasure of suicide, as it currently is, would be something that wouldn't contribute to my mental ill health.

[@wordsfallshort3563]

Sometimes the answer is really simple for some of us… speaking for myself, I was abused in my childhood and have experienced some very traumatic events in recent years that is still effecting me today. I am very forgiving of those that have hurt me. I don’t consider myself a bitter person even if I’ve had bitter moments. I know what I need and I cannot find it in my life no matter where I look or seek. I only want/need love and support to nurse me back to better mental health. I feel very worthless and unlovable because I can’t find it consistently in anyone. I mostly keep to myself about my strong desire to die because of the stigma around it. If they weren’t privy to me before they definitely won’t be if I tell them I’m struggling with persistent suicidal thoughts. I really do want this pain to end.

[@AS-on1fz]

Your story sounds a lot like mine and i'm sure it's the same for a lot of people and i'm so sorry we have to live with this pain. I'm sending you a big hug and lots of love.

[@tracy6568]

Yes so true!

[@MariaLCirillo]

Thank you for this video. I work in mental health and because of the circumstances I can’t go into details of a situation that just happened, but this topic is very meaningful to me and the timing of your release made it even more so.

[@sheenabernett4472]

Thank you for this video-you articulated so many things I feel but no one wants to hear.

[@al3440]

The fact that you guys are even having this conversation fills me w/ hope for the future🙂

[@user-ls1rl7oi2p]

I have been anxious since I was a young child and depression got added to the mix when I became a teenager. I have high trait neuroticism for those of you who are familiar with personality psychology, and it is likely that I have a high polygenic score for all of these things because they run in my family. So, I have been struggling with this stuff since I was a child and I'm in my 40s now. I've seen numerous psychotherapists over the last 25 years, each using a different approach or model (CBT, Gestalt, ACT, Schema Therapy, process group), and I've tried various psychiatric medications over a 20 year period. I read books. I did the homework. The result has been that my depression and anxiety are worse now than they have ever been, and the consequences have made my life situation significantly worse than it has ever been. I tried. I tried really hard. I had hope for a long time despite serious depressive lows. But now I want to stop. I think it is absurd that someone who has tried as hard as I have doesn't have access to a dignified death during which I can be surrounded by family. After this much effort and time, it is rational for me to want to end my life. And that's the keyword--rational. The idea that people who suffer from psychological problems are not rational enough to make this decision may be warranted at times, but it is cruel (and just flat out incorrect) to make the blanket assumption that everyone who suffers from mental illness is incapable of deciding whether to continue living. For me, there is no rational reason to think that things will improve. I'm not saying that there isn't some possibility that things could get better, but there is no rational reason to think so.. If things did improve, it would be more a function of dumb luck at this point, and I don't want to suffer as much as I do to wait on a winning gamble that's already eluded me for decades. That's no way to live. I really appreciate that this channel addressed this topic. I think one day this will be legal in most countries, but for too many people, it won't come fast enough.

[@melissaweller6203]

Sometimes i feel like there's really no way out. Like literally the ground is crackling. The sky is falling and there's no way to go. It's beyond bearable and i could see if i felt like this all the time I'd find an exit strategy. People that haven't experienced this schizophrenia don't get it. Lucky them.

[@juliannewman8720]

Adam was a great guy. He documented his life & a really healthy, knowledgeable young guy who knew what was going on. I bet if anyone watched his youtube videos their minds would change even slightly.

[@stevestarr6395]

Very interesting video on a controversial issue Lauren and Rob. From my experience working in the medical and psychiatric field if a person decides to take their life they don’t worry about the law where the main focus is ending their pain and suffering. The only real positive intervention is help that actually can treat the issue and make life better. You’re so right about not understanding the suffering and you really have to be there to understand it. One thing for sure Lauren and Rob I’m glad you both are still here and feel you’re both great people with a lot of help to offer for others! ❤️

[@Alon3InTh3Abyss]

I for one can say.. I don't want my kids to be the one to find me dead.. I don't want anyone to have to clean up "my mess" I am 29, almost 30 years old and I have never felt what happiness feels like for normal ppl.. the only reason I have not executed my plan (that has been my plan for a very long time, years and years..) is bci don't want some innocent person to have to find me.. be traumatized.. in finding my body. While yes, I don't want to live, truly. I also do not want to cause anyone else trauma in any form bc they were the one to find my body.. having to call law enforcement standing next to my dead body.. I don't want emts or anyone else to have to scoop my body or remains out on my car bci chose to end my suffering. How selfish would that be to put onto someone else? Ppl should have the right to end their suffering with some form of respect.. it should be allowed

[@merseymay]

Thank you for this. I have thought about this, alone, for years. I have suffered relentlessly for decades. Lived in the space between my suffering being too great and unfixable to keep going, and the unwillingness to burden my loved ones with the known negative life outcomes of their mother/loved one dying by suicide in the current social context. The process of m.a.s. itself would allow loved ones to get used to the idea of my situation, open up dialogue that would lead to understanding, allow for healthy grief and healthy acceptance. But while this is not the case, people like me live horrible lives of intractable suffering. There are fates far worse than death, and the suffering of some of us with treatment resistant severe mental illness is invisible but horrific and so long. I really feel "heard" and understood, listening to your discussion.

[@cleodello]

I think what we'd need to do is get rid of stress factors (ex. income, worrying about housing, work, isolation, et cetera) and increase support for at least 2 years before someone ends their life. In Canada there is far, far too little support for individuals with mental illness at this time. So how can we tell whether it is purely because of the disease or because of societal norms?

[@cleodello]

Also, the history of eugenics is a serious concern. We can pretend all we want that societal pressures don't play a role, but that just isn't the case. We have a history of forced sterilization in Canada within my lifetime. Should government agencies be trusted to not take advantage of assisted suicide? Also, what about domestic violence/elder abuse/et cetera? We'd need to have sufficient protections in place. All of the above actually applies to assisted deaths as a whole, but we can't pretend that mental illness doesn't make us even more vulnerable to manipulation.

[@kamilareeder1493]

Thats what im saying!!!!! Like you can't give people the option to die, but never try to actually give them Healthcare or real help fixing the problems in their lives :( I 1000% agree. You can't offer people the right to die and nothing else. :(

[@iOSsynth]

@@cleodello Its everywhere the same, probably wont happen, noone cares even about healthy people wellbeing. Not to mention increasing inequality.

[@tylergannon7398]

@@kamilareeder1493 In my honest opinion it’s not a matter of hope for recovery or need for better time and thought put into mental health. It’s a matter of unbearable suffering for a long period of time. Even if my life recovers from mental illness and I look back at the time I spent suffering and deemed my suffering so bad I would not have regretted suicide there is a serious issue that the option to commit suicide was not available to me through a system that could give me and my family dignity and closure because someone who did not go through the extreme suffering I went feels my pain was worth it on my behalf because I no longer want to end my life.

[@ktw70]

@@cleodello This is the issue with MAID. It is a eugenicist project, a legal way to kill vulnerable people instead of getting them resources.

[@j.h.miretskay3430]

Thanks for covering my favorite topic! I deeply respect your honesty and willingness to cover topics that people might find deeply uncomfortable. Your channel has really evolved and developed far more nuance -- and your content is excellent. I'm the odd person who is staunchly against involuntary treatment and who doesn't oppose suicide -- but who strongly opposes the concept that doctors should be involved in the dying process. There's nothing "undignified" in ending one's life by one's own hand, especially after giving this decision considerable thought and reflection. Having doctors serving as "gate-keepers" creates far more problems and conflicts of interest especially for patients who have scarce resources and limited access to medical care. Also, thanks for acknowledging how "mental illness" is used as an excuse to strip an individual of their civil rights. BTW as a supposedly "mentally ill" person you're far saner and more rational than many supposedly "sane" people. If you want to see "crazy", watch video footage from your southern neighbor's January 6th riots. ;)

[@gman-gx6gg]

YES, if your in unbearable pain where you've consistently received no treatment where you know there is no cure that you will live the rest of your life with this affliction and you're at the point where you're just breathing and existing you should have every right to choose when and where you want to go.

[@Prancenmoon]

Yes!

[@MaryLBenfield]

My best friend was diagnosed with schizophrenia several years ago and took her life on May 10, 2021. It’s been the hardest four weeks but she was struggling with so many things that we had no clue about until we found her journal after she passed. I live with depression and BPD myself so I am no stranger to suicidal ideation but it still hurts to lose someone you love to suicide. I am trying to find peace with her decision but I selfishly wish she was still here. I hope she is happy in Heaven with God like she always wanted to be and I hope she knew how much I loved her. 💜