Lizardmen in The Old World

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[@MountainMiniatures]

Well it appears that the document im reading from in this video the GW sent me, MAY have some differences from the the one they released today. If you find one point it out in the comments and lets see if we can catch them all.

[@captainferrite]

All I can see is you say Slann aare 0-1 per 2000 pts and Temple Guard are 0-1 per Slann but in the pdf they're both just straight 0-1 ever (but you can take the TG without the Slann)

[@anderplays6460]

according to the new errata you cannot march and use a breath weapon because it still counts as a shooting attack

[@andrewrockwell1282]

Boo to that. 😢 ​@@anderplays6460

[@andrewrockwell1282]

If you put a skink priest on the stegadon, do you get to use his WS for defense and not the basic skinks? It could be a really good way to buff the unit.

[@tungdil2]

Not sure if it was changed, but carnos multiple wounds is "only" vs monsters

[@carlosrubinos]

Jungle swarms are looking fire! They are same stats and rules as in 6th edition, when they were amazing in a cav-ruled meta. But back then they were 60 points and 0-1, with max unit size 6. Now they are 40 points, no max unit size, and unlimited units. They make a perfect cost-efficient anvil and those 20 poisoned attacks unit fronts put a lot of work! It's honestly the best thing I saw when I read the pdf 😂

[@rikusvolschenk6476]

Busy getting my 8th Ed Lizarmen army ready after many years gathering dust. Very appreciative of the fact that the legacy pdf for Lizzies is decent and kudos to GW for doing the PDF's. The only thing that really hurts is 15pts / model for Saurus spears...I get that they are heavy infantry and have decent stats, but man, that still a significant increase from the 11pts / model in 8th Ed.

[@derFredausdemVideo]

From the Q&A: Q: Can a model use a breath weapon after marching? A: No. A model cannot shoot during the Shooting phase if it marched during the preceding Movement phase and, although they work differently to most missile weapons, breath weapons are a type of missile weapon.

[@LaaLaaLeevi]

Yep, I just noticed this too :)

[@MountainMiniatures]

this errata came out after filming

[@derFredausdemVideo]

@@MountainMiniatures I'm aware of that. Would you kindly pin my comment or pin one of your own to make sure less people carry that mistake forward?

[@cannedsnow4511]

Kroxigors getting to charge through skinks is back love it

[@Rubymagicalgirl88]

I got the modals for this army very recently. I wanted a heavy dino list and i'm happy this is stoll viable. Bastillidon + lasers = rad. That's enough for me

[@SiliconSicilian]

I was about to say that 2 Stegadon Ancients w/ Engines couldn't be taken in 2000 but they can be taken as rare or Skink Priest mounts so could still run 2 Engines of the Gods.

[@andrewrockwell1282]

If you put a skink priest on the stegadon, do you get to use his WS for defense and not the basic skinks? It could be a really good way to buff the unit.

[@AkodoRobun]

Sorry if this was already suggested. But having a visual of the stats on different units would really help new players understand the content. I feel overwhelm my the mass of the information given and it would help digest the information if I have a visual. I really thank you for covering this content.

[@gmandr1156]

Thanks for doing the Lizardmen! Out of all the factions of old world they look the coolest for me. Currently making a Slaan into Mazdamundi, any suggestion on which lore of magic I should do?

[@equos5060]

The fact that Kroxigors need to fit onto 40mm, Slann onto 50mm and new Saurus on Aggradons need to fit on those small cavalry bases is a CRIME. I want to use new saurus on aggradons as cold one riders but the bases are too small...

[@matteofarinelli2928]

Huge time for Oldblood on Canrnosaur! With giant blade and Armor of destiny + shield. Huge

[@morkriger]

I want to try Sword of Revered Tzunki and Talisman of Protection

[@carlosrubinos]

I agree the nerf to cold blooded was needed for the new combat resolution system, but I think its knock-on effects on stupidity tests or trying to rout L5 skinks and terradons or L6 stegadon (with massive nerf to stubborn) were not really intended or properly thought out. Suddenly the very expensive cold one riders are WAY worse because of this.

[@MountainMiniatures]

Dont agree right now. Im not saying your wrong, time will tell. But in my limited experience the Steg is so powerful its ld 6 is only a problem with you want it to hold an entire flank on its own, outside the slanns huge LD bubble... Yet i did that anyway and it did amazing on its own. Saurus Cold ones ACTUALLY have stupidity now, with cold blooded they basically didnt have the rule in the past. and with 4 S4 attacks per mini (2 being S5 with spear on charge) when other heavy cav get 2 s3 (1 being S5 with a lance on charge) there are nutts. They are one of the few units that have the base US and attacks to make the fear rule be useful. and t4 and 3+ save. they are better then alot of heavy cav in the game. for everything they get, they have to pass a ld8 or 9 test once per turn or wander straight forward. Never have they been in a better spot i thinking

[@carlosrubinos]

@@MountainMiniatures it's great to hear your point of view! Maybe I am being too pessimistic. I hope time proves all my concerns wrong! Not that I would ever stop playing them anyway xD thanks for all the videos, amazing content as always

[@MrGunnar177]

Drop rocks I think is a lot better than originally thought the enemy unit suffers D3 Strength 4 hits, each with an AP of -, for EACH model in this unit that moved over it. So in a unit of 3 that’s 3D3 hits on the unit they fly over

[@mosesjones4853]

Terror on the Slann could help you avoid combat. When a unit wants to charge it, it has to test first.

[@ConquererCraig]

Love the Lizardmen, not a huge fan of the old Cold One Knights models. What are you thoughts of creating community rules for the new Aggradon Lancers (from AoS) Making there rules similar to cold one knights, but as monsterour or heavy cav? Just want to use my kool raptors.

[@jeancouscous]

Just use them as Cold one knights, they seemed the natural update to the figures really. i know i will

[@ConquererCraig]

@@jeancouscous They are so much bigger than Cold One Knights though. 3 Aggradon guys take up as much space as 5 or 6 COKs

[@jy8081]

I feel like the downside of the bastilodon is that it only fires like 60% of the time.

[@MountainMiniatures]

Yeah but 60% of the time it fires 100% of the time.

[@ilovecokeslurpees]

@@MountainMiniatures *fire exstinguishers activate*

[@Begawow]

I mean 60% of the time doing 3d3 S5 ap-2 autohits is still pretty nuts though especially since 175 isn't bad imo for his defensive profile

[@jy8081]

@Begawow assuming it doesn't get dispelled, wait can you dispell bound items?

[@Begawow]

@@jy8081 you can but it should be pretty easy to stay out of dispel range with since it's the same range as dispel ( or 6 Inches more if theyre lvl 1-2) and you can pre measure this edition. I also forsee a lot of wizards not joining the front line especially with the improved solo character rules so you just move exactly 24" from one of their front line units and blast them

[@nicolasperel8026]

Thank you Steve, you Rock ! Eventhough it's a bit difficult to understand you as a french guy, not fluent in english ^^ Love all the MM content ;)

[@MountainMiniatures]

Thanks dude! and dont fell like your an outlier, its my understanding English first language speakers cant always understand my mumbling either!

[@cthulhudude23]

While it is a bummer the legacy armies won't be getting future support (and I wish they had included one more "evil" faction in Old World), I keep reminding myself that was basically the way things were when i first started playing in 7th edition with the older lizard book (go Nike Saurus!). Once a book got released for a faction, you were done for 5-10 years. So it's not all that different than the older days. There's good and bad with all the FAQ/new releases, but at least we have fairly comprehensive rules for these factions.

[@danielbateman6518]

I wouldn't be so sure they won't be getting future support. We know Kislev will be coming even though there's no rules right now, or models. I think vampire counts will be getting a full release too, and I don't see why the rest wouldn't. It just might take some time, although I hate how often they switch editions with 40k now, I could easily see them bringing out more factions with a second edition release in a couple of years.

[@MountainMiniatures]

@@danielbateman6518 yeah man this is my thinking too!

[@BattleHardenedGames]

You have all sorts of new models in the AOS range, just throw them on new bases and boom you at least have new miniatures to celebrate :) So a new army list and new models, that's pretty good.

[@friendofyoda5194]

Can Apotheosis (Lore of Lustria) heal unit champions? E.g Kroxigor gaining terror = great.

[@Slapdab]

Thanks for the coverage

[@discomute]

Impetuous is a horrific nerf to my favourite unit. It also makes little sense from a rules perspective - you need a double 6 to make the charge, you still have to roll? Now if the rule was that you roll impetuous if you are guaranteed to succeed in charge (move+2) then I'm taking rippers every day of the week. I don't care if thet charge the wrong unit, that's hilarious. I care if they are easy to manipulate into failed charges.

[@sernet]

As per the core rules FAQ released on 01/23/24 the breath weapons cannot be used after marching

[@zacklehmann4042]

I'm getting back into this game. I love my lizardmen but I can't find them in the new rulebook. So I'm wondering where can I find these rules? Thanks in advance.

[@MountainMiniatures]

@@zacklehmann4042 the Warhammer community site. Under downloads in the war or the old world tab

[@ninjacrabfish8829]

Could you take apotheosis on two different wizards and stack them on the same unit giving a unit without fear or terror, terror?

[@captainferrite]

So glad the rumours about the higher ups ordering a last minute nerf to Legacy factions turned out to be horseshit. The bit saying "these lists are completely playtested and balanced but they're not legal" is just a little bit schizophrenic XD

[@envaya9838]

haha I said the exact same thing about GW being schizophrenic to my friend earlier

[@MountainMiniatures]

@@toro132 not true. This is an out right lie actually. to make this claim, you have to ignore all the differences in the units, the negative the sword masters have with the warriors of the white tower rule makes doesn't offset the minor extra special rules they get. I think both units MIGHT be over costed. but to claim The Sword masters are worse then the Executioner is a ridiculous comparison. I dont think ill be using my sword masters much anymore. The Executioners MIGHT see the table when i play dark elves. AND WTF YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BLACK DRAGON BEING WORSE THE THE HIGH ELF ONE! i had to use all caps to point out this blatant lie. the black dragon is 10 points cheaper and has a better attack, higher Initiative, a way way way more power breath weapon, and for that it has 1 less stomp attack.

[@aardsaus]

Nerd war

[@discomute]

I think it's fair to say they haven't had as much effort and play testing as they said from the get go these armies weren't part of it. I mean jungle swarms are insane. But I think they've done a good job, way better than I expected, I am happy with it all things considered.

[@jeancouscous]

Bro you have not even play one game, of TOW how do you know, lol@@toro132

[@anderplays6460]

the best thing about Kroxigors is that they don't have Stupidity anymore

[@SSBBcore]

Lizardmen!

[@discomute]

Im going to get into this hobby and im lizardmen all the way. Question - what unit should i get first? What will be used in 1000 points and 2000 points. Not slann. I'm thinking Temple Guard or Kroxigor? Edit - oh geez i just noticed that Saurus Warriors are compulsory. I don't like that.

[@jeancouscous]

Just take a min unit if you hate them. Plus they dont seem that bad really for a tax

[@Derwyddcymraeg]

Sad to see razordon losing most of their shooting ability

[@johnbailey8567]

FOR ALGORYTHMO! FOR THE STEVE! FOR LUGNUT MCGILLYGULLY JR THE BESTIGOR!

[@captainferrite]

FOR GET IT

[@dzav8909]

Sorry where does it say about skink skirmishers with javelins? Do they still have quick fire and 12" range like 8th edition?

[@johannesssorensen1259]

Slann Mage Priest: if you get the item that allows you to pick your spells, would an ethereal slann mage work better for tying up enemy units in combat by choosing more assailment spells ? - I haven't got the books yet, so can't remember how many are in each lore, and would you be able to cast multiple assailments in the same turn with the same mage?

[@MountainMiniatures]

still gotta pick from the same lore tho

[@carlosrubinos]

The good ol' lizards have been hit HARD with the nerf bat... A level 4 empire wizard on pegasus with the 30-point 5+ward save item is better than the slann in every single way (including magic), and for 65 less points. Slann became super expensive, fragile, and mediocre in magic... Sad to see them go like this. Overall nerfs to skink priests (restricted now), saurus warriors, terradons, stegadon, salamanders, cold blooded (and indirectly cold ones' stupidity), same or increased unit points throughout when core armies got army-wide improvements or point discounts... Sad. We'll need to re-learn how to play them to make them viable.

[@MountainMiniatures]

Yeah i dont think i agree with any thing here. i will admit the slann at first glance didnt look that great to me. But after playing a bunch of games, im thinking hes the best wizard in the game for its points.

[@carlosrubinos]

​@@MountainMiniatures again so nice to see such a different opinion. You have much more experience than me playing lizards across many editions (I mostly only played 5th and 6th), so I'll go with your advice. Why would you say he's the best wizard in the game? Because of access to disciplines or being able to cast through skinks? Otherwise I don't see it. Seems expensive and when you compare it with other wizards (say my example of empire wizard on pegasus) I don't see he brings that much to the table in terms of magic bonuses. What am I missing? Is ethereal just pretty much an auto-include?

[@MountainMiniatures]

@@carlosrubinos Ethereal isnt needed at all. hes same safe near temple guard, but you could take for some extra comfort. So in this edition you want your wizard on their own, NOT in units anymore. when they are in a unit its too easy to show them down. So you have to run them on their own with a flaying mount, and because your on your own u might want to buy award or something for some stray hits. The Slann has 2 more wounds then everyone elses lev4 wizard. T4, Has fly 8 built in, that alone is HUGE, he comes with his own wards save, and most importantly hes a large target, so he sees better then anyone elses wizard on a pegasus. this guy is a steal for how you have to play mages in the old world.

[@carlosrubinos]

@@MountainMiniatures standard nameless empire lvl 4 mage on pegasus with 5+ ward item is fly 10 (with base M8), T5, W4 (plus way better in combat with WS4, I3, A2 plus pegasus attacks, if he finds himself in a pickle), magic attacks stock, magic resist stock, and access to all lores of magic (vs Slann's 5) for 220 points, with 70 leftover for items. Not large target and only Ld8 but still. Just as an example. But you are right we'll have to actually play the game to get a better feeling of how it plays out :) thanks for your reply and your insight

[@MountainMiniatures]

@@carlosrubinos Not T5 only 4, the WS4, I3, A2 isnt realistically relevant. Leadership 9 over 8 is a big deal in the context of the old world. But Large Target is a big deal (not always but you know) But yes my dude im loving the Empire wizard in this edition. so if you pay for the pegasus and the magic item, the slann cost 45pts more for another wound and large target. and you havent dipped into its magic item allotment. Tho the empire wizard is 2inches faster and mr -1

[@discomute]

Saurus warriors being compulsory is a bit rough given the current AoS miniatures wont fit the bases

[@archmagoshazrael]

It's why they said the pdfs are for people who already have the armies not new collectors

[@discomute]

@@archmagoshazrael well you can argue it from a rules perspective, fairness perspective, and a business perspective. It's true I can't complain about fairness given they have been open about lizardmen not being supported. But you can't tell me it would break the list if Saurus weren't a requirement (TG will actually fit on the bases given their stances), but from a business perspective - and I really want TOG to succeed - it makes little sense to rule out new players in the manner they have. Remove the requirement and you can encourage new players a lot easier.

[@jeancouscous]

They will fit on a 30 mm base, a round base of 32 mm is less foot surface than a square of 30. I know i will make it work

[@DamBrooks]

Evening all

[@MountainMiniatures]

Morning.

[@DamBrooks]

@@MountainMiniatures a very good day it’ll be once this insolvable cold stops tormenting me 🥶