Lobotomy: A Dangerous Fad's Lingering Effect on Mental Illness Treatment | Retro Report

[@emmac.5939]

Stories beginning with “he was inspired by the ice pick in his kitchen drawer” never have a happy ending.

[@kayanurshiya3778]

Grenzer 23 😂😂

[@theworlduncut]

LOL I was just thinking "What the hell kind of doctor dreams up a brain surgery by looking at a prison shiv?!?"

[@WaterBottleBlues101]

I agree😬

[@jackiebennett1512]

@Tyler Tyler -You can say that again, lol.

[@artvandelayRFC]

@Grenzer 23 Sharon Stone.

[@DuckyHellBird]

Let's face it. Society has never been able to deal with mental illness...even today with as much as we know.

[@mrijk1946]

Felipe M. you think the rise in depression is real ?

[@MeleenGames]

@@mrijk1946 Not really people are mixing up emotions with chemical imbalances. Often mentally ill people don't realise they have anything wrong with them. I was diagnosed with ocd and I thought it would never happen because I had such a warped idea on what it was. It's like oh this isn't normal right? but you don't really bring it up to anyone. You'll constantly think of suicide, self harm turn to drugs maybe even etc. Yet a lot of us can't see it. I thought I just had high functioning depression. Came out with ocd, BPD and Bipolar and had experienced delusions and psychosis had no idea.

[@MeleenGames]

@Anomic Anchorite I'm not American so I can't relate to a lot of what you said. We don't advertise medication in my country lol it's taboo as hell and I'm in a 3rd world Country to btw only our main urban areas have access to help. I don't understand how one can advertise meds for depression etc it makes no sense

[@yesterdayitrained]

TRUE

[@christystewart4567]

Eve Lyn it used to be illegal to advertise any prescription medication here in the USA not just psychotropic meds. It was okay to advertise over the counter meds like aspirin or cold remedies but not prescription. I’m old enough to remember when this was challenged. The debates/arguments were contentious. Eventually the advertising side won. So now I’ll be watching tv or reading a magazine and get an ad about a drug I’ve never heard of to help with a condition I don’t have. I suppose it makes the hypochondriacs happy. Drives my doctor and his colleagues nuts since they get asked about drugs their patients simply saw on tv.

[@taylorbumbum]

"her metal health issues were becoming a problem" For whom? Her? Or was she just embarrassing to the Kennedy's? My money's on the latter

[@joshuatraffanstedt2695]

The latter. That's exactly right. Her father thought shed disrupt JFKs political career and didnt like the fact that she was sexually active smh

[@CS-yr5jr]

Taylor Ashleigh exactly what I thought

[@leeannalynx4890]

Taylor Ashleigh "she couldn't talk politics at the table."

[@breonawarren1507]

Joshua Traffanstedt But yet there was the scandal of the Kennedy Brothers & Marilyn Monroe...

[@Missditabomb]

Rosemary should not have had that treatment. She had some mild brain damage from her brain being deprived of oxygen at the time of her birth, (the doctor was called and told the nurse to hold/keep the baby in the birth canal as HE WOULDN'T GET FULL PAYMENT FOR THE BIRTH if Rose Kennedy had the baby without him present), but Rosemary never was, and should never have been, an obvious candidate for this procedure. A lobotomy, for God's sake!!

[@breonawarren1507]

The fact that most of these were done on women with children & young girls. Women who wanted to be more than a house wife or acted outside of the norm- even some who were thought to be lesbians were lobotomized.

[@whozaskin3639]

Got some statistics to cite? Links?

[@cataderian]

Who: www.wondersandmarvels.com/2016/12/race-gender-selection-patients-lobotomy.html

[@kremasag6612]

@@BradPwnsU True. It is an anomaly whether it sounds bad or not.

[@Czadzikable]

@@BradPwnsU , diversity in sexuality is NOT a mental illness! Just as being left handed isn't a mental illness!

[@wickednwyld]

@@BradPwnsU - Ummm... says who?

[@emilywass515]

I think the reason people don’t look back on lobotomy as “well at the time it was high end science” or anything is because it wasn’t done to help the patients feel better, it was done to make “unsavoury” (gay people, women, people of colour, mentally ill, physically disabled) people easier to deal with. It was done against people’s will and without people’s knowledge, and the good results they reported were complacency and submission. The people who underwent these surgeries obviously were not better off, they couldn’t take care of themselves they lacked the mental capacity to hold certain conversations, this was done solely for people to have more power over those who cannot defend themselves

[@ArekusaSan]

What the fuck is this interaction going on in this comment chain. I'm just trying to watch a mini documentary on lobotomy

[@thatoneannoyingsoprano8066]

Areksha Chan that is such a fucking mood

[@emilywass515]

wtf, I check on this comment after a hot minute and people are looking to hookup in the replies?

[@sourgreendolly7685]

Emily Wass And pretending no one knows about Belgium? I’m so confused lmao

[@BradPwnsU]

When did they do lobotomies to non-mentally ill people or color just because they weren’t white in the 1900’s or even at all? Don’t mislead people

[@l.tc.5032]

Rosemary sounded like she had high functioning autism and depression. No need for this barbaric proceedure. Poor Girl.

[@ecnash8272]

She was a victim of her mother being instructed to sit up when the baby was crowning. Oxygen deprivation caused her disabilities. The Doctor would not get paid if he was not present when the infant was born. The Medical profession got away unscathed.

[@boneyboy_666]

agreed

[@YurimoHikashi]

@@ecnash8272 wtf that really sucks

[@ecnash8272]

Indeed it doea! @@YurimoHikashi

[@cc3184]

Or just developmentally challenged and never going to be up for the high caliber of kennedy dinner conversation but still able to have a functioning life.

[@honeybsweet4229]

"inspired by an ice pick in his kitchen drawer"

[@akmalzulkifli9921]

how could if it is inspired by a saw at the garage 😂😭😂😭

[@daveykonijnenberg951]

No normal person has a ice pick in there kitchen drawers

[@breonawarren1507]

davey Konijnenberg Back then they did, well a good number. Ice makers weren’t really a thing in fridges so they had ice blocks and chip away at to get chunks of ice.

[@PeterRabbit70]

Honeybee, yes, that caught my attention, also. It's a good thing he didn't spot the wine corkscrew first.

[@JustWowNick]

davey Konijnenberg I do. I use it for the normal things you would use an ice pick for, like breaking ice cubes out of ice trays, cutting things, claiming lives, you know, the usual.

[@singer1AJ]

This makes me feel physically sick

[@ultrafox2773]

LOL I feel the same way I don't know why I started this video.I'm literally laying in bed thinking how am I going to fall asleep now, needless to say I didn't finish the video.

[@bee4590]

asian dude cause veterans, sick people and mentally ill people had ice picks shoved into their brain through their eye

[@Jahshona]

I thought it was just me

[@canigetawater]

Jeez.. I was beginning to think I was alone.. I can't even finish the video

[@mattresscoolkidsuper4914]

@Frances Christine this has nothing to do with Religion you moron if you said this in 1950 you would've been LOBOTOMIZED 😂😂

[@helenafarkas4534]

the tiniest of silver linings to Rosemary's story is that once her siblings found her again, they all began to advocate for and legislate on behalf of the disabled. our current disability laws are her legacy.

[@jennyhughes4474]

Is that true? What were these 'siblings' doing all the time that she was in an institution (if what I read is true?) that this was until their father got ill & said where she was, that they'd been told she was 'mentally retarded' but hadn't(?) been to see her(?), Rosemary was then about 43? Had they 'forgotten' about her all that time, or what?

[@helenafarkas4534]

@@jennyhughes4474 they didn't know where she was or what happened to her. her mother didn't know either. I can't remember what they were told, but it was only after their father died that they were able to find her again.

[@jennyhughes4474]

@@helenafarkas4534 What, her mother 'didn't know' = you saying everyone let her father not tell them ehere she was (or they didn't ask?), none of them made enquiries around to try find her? All sounds very fishy to me...

[@helenafarkas4534]

@@jennyhughes4474 I don't know any more details than that. the dad was a piece of work, and once the operation happened, he made Rosemary disappear. presumably they asked, but he stonewalled them, and as patriarch of the family, they couldn't force him to tell them anything. it was only after he died, and they went through his papers that they found her.

[@jennyhughes4474]

@@helenafarkas4534 That's so terrible. I know how it feels to not be able to get people (guilty doctors) to tell me things I want/need to know & refuse to answer my questions (stonewalled) - except with lies, it HURTS so much. It isn't often that secrets are good - and even if they are supposed to be (may be/are) often the answers+ come after huge delays = way too late...

[@Pozorrogo]

Imagine a time where an ice pick jammed in your brain with a hammer and swished around randomly could be labeled as "Breakthrough Science"

[@stitches318]

imagine the things today that are labeled as science that we are told to just blindly follow

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

@@stitches318 true

[@vacantcontentment8863]

Trotsky had a ice pick in his brain and it didn't cure him.

[@gabrielmicu4085]

Bro-science

[@backwoodsjunkie08]

Its sad to imagine the last lobotomies were done only 50yrs ago...

[@iammissjess]

She suffered severe headaches and a doctor thought that puncturing the brain via your eye socket would help?

[@HeidiCavalier]

To be fair, I've had headaches bad enough that I've wanted to do that myself! Of course, I've always had this little thing - I think it's called "common sense?" - that stops me :p

[@bellasue02]

@Frances Christine thanks i will try it

[@externaldriver]

In his defense, it did help the headaches.

[@MichaelJacksonzGlove]

​@@HeidiCavalier I get migraines as well and always think about inflicting pain on another area of my body to distract me from the pulsating migraines. Thank goodness we were not born in those times.

[@coveredinharmony]

Lobotomy was also performed on people with physical disease that was perceived to be psychosomatic. It wasn't so long ago I might have been lobotomized for my inflammatory bowel disease.

[@Loveroffood41]

Thanks for sharing that information I was diagnosed with IBD when I was 9 years old I just turned 37 a couple months ago

[@orangutank626]

I have a question, how would the disconnect brain tissue after the lobotomy not affect a persons health? If that brain tissue is cut and removed from the thalamus it is no longer receiving blood supply or oxygen, how does that part of the brain not rot inside the persons head?

[@Loveroffood41]

@@orangutank626 you know that's a really interesting question. One of the amazing things about the human body is that the brain is not connected to anything but the spinal cord. When something is cut out somehow it still continues to survive. The brain is the most amazing thing on our world. We honestly may never figure out how it works.

[@peekaboots01]

Since when has IBS been considered psychosomatic?

[@gregorymalchuk272]

It's sort of like lnfant clrcumclslon.

[@awkwardathena434]

I'm glad I was born in the time period I was. I have general anxiety, depression, complex post-traumatic stress disorder, OCD and suspected autism with chronic pain and migraines, what the hell would they have done with me? It sounds like this guy was more like an angel of death (eg. a nurse who kills their patients) than a visionary of neurology.

[@zacharygordon2983]

Awkward Athena lets be honest, people were thrown in asylums for premarital sex... I’m sure you’d be in the loony bin.

[@kittied4482]

Agreed. If I did t die giving birth(which 49 years ago I would have) for sure I would have been locked up and honestly most likely lobotomized

[@KyrieChii]

@Awkward Athena - Brain chemistry issues can be a bitch. I suffer with Depression & anxiety. I've watched many a documentary from the last century & have always come away from it thanking God that I was born during the age of anesthetics, antibiotics & pain medication. >__

[@Krzemieniewski1]

Did you get PTSD from twitter?

[@kittied4482]

Gunnar Marr darling you need to reread what she wrote and do it slower. She knows she had PTSD. It is autism that she is not entirely certain of which makes sense because it can years for doctors to specify which area of the spectrum you fit. And complex does not mean made up. Complex refers to multiple affecting factors within her particular diagnoses of PTSD. And you are incorrect, many people have it without knowing they do. It took me 7 years to discover that a certain situation had caused me ongoing trauma. I thought I had dealt with it and that was that. Not until much therapy and differentiation and actual diagnoses of several different disorders was it correctly identified. I have PTSD from more then one incident and a vast family history of mental illness so it took a hell of a lot of time and therapy(20years) to actually breakdown and differentiate each Illness, and thankfully then with proper diagnoses by a psychiatrist (not self diagnosis, helI had no clue I was as messed as I was) I could address and treat each illness. 😊

[@aciefarris1828]

How can some people be so cruel? The Dr was more interested in his own notariaty and fame than he was about the true effects of this procedure.

[@asmrcomet2939]

@andrewwakefield

[@sharlenemckenzie9688]

Just look at Dr Richard (Rachel) Levine No problem with butching young boys, No one seems to say anything And women whom live with the memories of abuse he is happy to allow men into our bathrooms and spaces to force us to relive our nightmares Nothing changes

[@Flanch82]

He was an old school Fauci

[@richardcarroll9864]

Kind of like doctors who do gender affirming surgery today.

[@r5t6y7u8]

(Name a scientist who _wasn't_ concerned with his own notoriety and fame, especially today.)

[@lisabartelli7161]

Very interesting! Being a chronic migraine woman, I can see how the promise of no more pain, would influence many to trust those old doctors and a lobotomy. I feel bad for those who were cut in to that can now be helped with antidepressants. So many minds wasted.

[@wyattwatterud3099]

Lisa bartelli try magic mushrooms

[@francinejones2524]

I’m a chronic migraine sufferer. And I’m not that dumb to believe the next fad.

[@breonawarren1507]

Francine Jones Back then they didn’t have a choice. Now we have medicine that is FDA approved and Doctors who have to follow strict codes. And if you were a woman probably didn’t have access to such knowledge except the advertising in magazines.

[@havanadaurcy1321]

Apparently lobotomies help genetic pulmonary TB. Or so my great grandfather's doctor thought before being thrown by a 6 foot Irish immigrant out the door.

[@Zach2003]

Someone: *sneezes* Dr. Freeman: He needs lobotomy!

[@francinejones2524]

Lisa Harbers lol

[@akmalzulkifli9921]

Lisa Harbers lol 😂😭😂

[@meatybeatybignbouncy]

That's not far from the truth! The dude was obsessed with giving them!

[@axelabdiel4136]

Alyx : "you don't have the degree gordon".

[@sailaab]

but Lobotomy *IS* the ONLY cure for sneezing¡ by the way: you spelt "psychopathic butcher' wrongly

[@alison4316]

I've seen an interview with the now-adult young boy who was lobotomized---he is normal NOW but had a very hard time after his lobotomy. I forget all the details, but, in my opinion, it seemed he only had ADHD 😞 I can only imagine how my issues would've been "treated"--panic disorder, GAD, PTSD, non-specific major depressive disorder....jeez.

[@WW-jh2ge]

There is no evidence Howard Dully had anything except for a sociopathic step mother and a loser, pushover father.

[@missmoxie9188]

He also lost his mother and was being tortured by his stepmother who hated him. But of course Dr. Freeman didn’t even take that into consideration

[@silverslipper149]

Clown World YOU ARE A CONFUSED MENTAL CASE

[@RoySATX]

My dad, who was a heavy drinker, would often respond "better to have a bottle in front of me than to have a frontal lobotomy" when asked why he drank so much. People took it for humor, and it was, it was also his honest answer. He was also truthful when he said "the patients are just ill, it's the doctors who are sick." The times have changed, the illnesses are different, but people haven't changed a bit.

[@patchthecat]

I saw that very saying on a Keychain when I was a kid in the 90s. Never forgot ...because I remember asking my mom what it meant

[@ajg5138]

Rosemary was insanely beautiful.

[@aftrdrk7263]

Yes she was 😔

[@akmalzulkifli9921]

agree with that

[@veronicachristopher9321]

??????? Huh?! Define beautiful.

[@ardithbard857]

She was a beautiful girl but. Average beauty not insanely.

[@justintime1343]

@Austin Gerhardt: Pun not intended?

[@israelwolstein9351]

Glad we are not in the 1930s

[@meatybeatybignbouncy]

Yeah, but he performed these until 1967! I was 10 years old then.

[@MrsMacWifey]

Now doctors just perform irreversible experimental surgeries on people's genitals.

[@aa.4639]

@@MrsMacWifey Or give pills withouth really knowing what the longtherm effects are..😑

[@richlaw5136]

Now we just abort children

[@cigarettediet1185]

yes then i wouldnt come out the mental hospital if he was my doctor😂😂😂

[@metatechnocrat]

I think the final breaking point was when Freeman started trying to market "Do It Yourself Ice Pick Lobotomy" kits.

[@Thewritingelf]

Huh ?!

[@physhgyrl76hengesbach18]

Sarcasm

[@janevanessaa3523]

Hahaha

[@bellasue02]

😳

[@scottcupp8129]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@raodenraoden9796]

Judging from the pictures in the newspapers, even back then they wanted women "to smile more"

[@lj5158]

Exactly.

[@FlyingUnosaur]

They still should.

[@wireoneunplugged]

Oh my god this is making me feel sick. The thought of a goddamn pick being rammed into your eye socket and puncturing your skull? 🤮🤮🤮

[@dogmonday]

I remember as a young nurse taking care of a lobotomy patient who came to the hospital from a care home. He was a like a child but just expressionless. Very sad.

[@electrofonickitty823]

As a child, I was told this would happen to me. I am glad I am not back in the past. I have a form of LD (learning disabled) and people still think just because I don't think like others.

[@strugglingcollegestudent]

Yeah my parents used to do that. They used to threaten to institutionalize me when I was little. It wasn't really effective. Yes, I listened to them, but also I was terrifyied of them. I was so afraid of being sent away to the places my parents described. They told me they would send me to a place where I would be locked in an empty room, and I'd have to earn things like a pillow, a bed, a hairbrush, etc... through good behavior.

[@leansnscenes7806]

@@strugglingcollegestudent wow your parents are really horrible people

[@flowrepins6663]

​@@strugglingcollegestudentyour parents are jus s holes lots of pp should never become.parents. i am familiar with ur case.

[@LadyGreyBlack]

Kind of like a girl we grew up with would be threatened with "being sent to Charter Hospital" when he grades started to slip. And she was a perfectionist with straight As.

[@myboyz9391]

My grandmother had a next door neighbor who had a lobotomy. Her name was Mary. I always remember her just sitting on the porch. She was basically a zombie. My mom later told me that as a young woman she became violent. It is such a sad thing to see. I will never forget.

[@Badass_Brains]

That must have been incredibly disturbing to see :( I once had to take a patient for Electro-Convulsive Therapy and finding it shocking that the treatment was still given, as I didn't know that at the time and thought it was an archaic treatment.

[@katiempojer]

Did mom live in Florida? My great aunt Mary had to be due to ppd

[@paradisekiss1893]

100% sure that Freeman is rotting in hell right now.

[@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165]

Let's hope it's a mix of "Shutter Island" & "American Horror Story 3". He wakes up every day thinking he's a doctor/of importance. He then gets brutally lobotomized repeatedly..

[@scottcharney1091]

Hell doesn't exist.

[@kimseokjin5258]

@@scottcharney1091 it should some people deserve it

[@redlisab]

*GOOD* !!!!

[@MisterSolitude]

@@scottcharney1091 after watching this, don't you wish it did?

[@leecydevenitch2646]

I had deep brain stimulation for severe Tourette syndrome and know a few other people who had it also, it's not a miracle cure but it has greatly improved many people I know quality of life. Before I had it I was constantly punching myself, being paralyzed by tics and punching walls and doors, screaming at the top of my lungs , could not attend school. Now, I'm a sophomore in college majoring in education and I have a full time job.

[@berenicemarchese1593]

Lobotomies are still being performed in the USA today. Someone I know with a personality disorder had one performed a few years ago. It didn't help but it did set her back a lot. She went from a professional legal secretary to living on disability.

[@Mars20231]

I highly doubt that

[@FilthFartHole]

​@@Mars20231lol

[@jordanlewis4913]

Cap

[@hasaheadachenow]

One of the many dark times in medical history for sure!

[@oklahomaathleticsassociati1868]

Idk maybe watch the fuckin vid

[@kaeoam5882]

Go to an actual modern-day mental asylum. No, they do not do lobotomies regularly. But they do them chemically to so many patients, and its obvious. Unfortunately society is never presented this type of information. True evil is always following the money.

[@sharlenemckenzie9688]

What about today! Dr Richard levin thinks cutting off boys gentile is just ok God help us when we look back on this mess what do we say to these young men think about the horrific life this monster is doing under the Biden administration

[@BruceDanton-xw6eg]

Terrible there of course too.

[@vegasjk27]

My maternal grandmother was severely depressed when she was alive. Many years ago when I was young or before I was born she went through electroshock therapy and almost had a lobotomy but they called it off. I'm glad they did not do a lobotomy on her.

[@peekaboots01]

Did the electroshock therapy work?

[@vegasjk27]

@@peekaboots01 For a time, it did.

[@peekaboots01]

@@vegasjk27 interesting. I think people still have electro shock therapy done

[@holly6403]

This happened to my grandma too she was depressed and had schizophrenia ,all electroshock therapy gave her was nightmares and ptsd :(

[@juliamelone8109]

I just started bawling when I saw that they were doing it to children

[@WW-jh2ge]

Howard Dully wrote a harrowing book about being lobotomized at age 12 by Freeman. It is truly horrifying to think this happened, not only to vulnerable adults but to children as young as age four!

[@emanon-]

When I was in the hospital I was diagnosed with MDD, OCD, PTSD, Gen Anxiety and no I didn’t get it from “Twitter”. I had gotten it from terrible childhood trauma and fortunately, have left the house that has sourced my fears. I can’t imagine getting this done, especially as it’s done to control someone.

[@miyaosamu4088]

Sooo you get diagnosed in a hospital about mental illness?

[@inesnaglic472]

I woke up with a headache this morning, and watching this makes it stronger, not to mention goosebumps

[@bullwinkle1989]

This is repulsive.

[@dulceele2967]

They showed pictures of the before and after as if wearing makeup and combing your hair was evidence of recovery. People really thought that seeming "conventional" and "well ajusted" meant you didn't have any psychological problems.

[@julianacromey7151]

It's a miracle we survived this "medical breakthrough" era.

[@morganalabeille5004]

This attitude of making neurodivergent people more convenient for the people around them is something that forms the basis of a lot of therapy today. Specifically ABA therapy.

[@washyourmouthoutwithpope1334]

exactly what I was thinking reading about how everyone is so shocked in the comments.

[@awright119021]

You don't think the people that were suffering were also a concern? Ask anyone with significant mental illness if they would like it to go away. Sure there were evil people that did the wrong things, but let's not act like all doctors were evil back then. Many were really trying to help people with the technology they had available.

[@thisismaribethe]

But like what research did he do to prove this worked? Like holy crap.

[@robokill387]

none. it was literally based on him making up a theory, then immediately going on to do it. Performing lobotomies on people WAS the research.

[@carolynstogner817]

CRAP IS "NOT HOLY!"

[@csillakaszas7285]

Formerly agitated, aggressive patients stopped hurting themselves and others in mental hospitals after lobotomy, so that was an improvement, in a sense.

[@miss.conduct8083]

​@@carolynstogner817 Wife Swap: "SHES NOT A CHRISTIAN!!👹" Cralyn, just scroll by, sissycat?

[@bardlover6]

One of my relatives refused to ever be professionally diagnosed as bipolar due to knowing people subjected to the lobotomy for the condition. Never was properly medicated, and it ruined a marriage and relationships with children. Sad that barbaric doctors kept people from getting mental illness treatment for decades afterwards

[@jodydavis6238]

This is what happens when we put doctors on a pedestal and never question them.

[@gasun1274]

people questioned him at the time and so did many doctors. the media was to blame, the same way the media was to blame for how we handled covid.

[@garymilano7761]

Thats right. Believe me i question authority and get in trouble for it. Be proactive and do not let those rote learned people get you down. The fact is that there are doctors who are creative and save lives and have good hearts. The rest of these so called doctors are fakes. All flash and no real genius. I know as i am a artist. There is a big difference trust me..Bottom line they are weak people.

[@nonono9194]

We experienced an identical period in the past 3 years, we're all fully experienced in how the masses of people can also be blamed for their gullibility and Innate desire to obey authority.

[@elizabethbrown3447]

They think they are Gods

[@FilthFartHole]

Science... Not doctors!!! Faith in Science is deadly.

[@leika2589]

So sad how many people with mental illness that just needed help were really harmed during this time :(

[@ceciliamartinez2068]

Lobotomy- the making of a zombie. This monster must have been a graduate of the Josef Mengele school of Medicine

[@cesarcueto1995]

"In many cases leaving patients worse off" Really, I'm shocked he implies that any lobotomy resulted in a patient being better off. That's disgusting

[@Displaynamenotavailable]

A doctor in a sleeveless shirt does not inspire confidence

[@kayleew68748]

The darkness that can be felt in the surgical wing of the Trans Allegheny Lunatic Assylum here in Weston West Virginia is astonishing. Freeman himself operated there with the support of the state. Hundreds of not thousands received lobotomies in that long bland but ominous room. While the architecture is beautiful the history of over crowing and poor conditions among death is not so welcoming.

[@J25-n6g]

We live in a very cruel world I'm 57 years old and when I was at school we did a subject called social care. We were taken by our school to mental institutions to pamper the old ladies, to do their hair etc, they were lovely and institutionalised for the crime of having sex before marriage, their babies taken away and they were locked up as crazy What a world. My mum suffered depression for a time after not being believed about an illness, she attempted suicide several times and was put on a psychiatric unit for a while they wanted to give her electric shock treatment which l refused. Turned out she had gallstones 97 of them and after the operation she went from strength to strength that was almost 40 years ago. Today she is a happy 89 year old. Love to you all x

[@awright119021]

They were doing that in the 80's?

[@marthawoodworth4380]

I interviewed a bunch of inmates in a federal prison and one of them had had a lobotomy. It was terrifying looking and I remember thinking that it was just so wrong that anyone should have that done to them.

[@clintonearlwalker]

When I toured the closed West Virginia State Hospital in Weston WV, I think my guide said Freeman did 126 lobotomies there. I think she said he could do up to 10 a day, he charged $25 for each one. The nurses didn't like him because he wouldn't wash his hands. He drove around in a beat up station wagon they called "the lobotomobile". They have a "Walter Freeman room". Some of his ice picks are still there.

[@heartfeltgirll]

omg. do you remember anything else?

[@clintonearlwalker]

@@heartfeltgirll I remember a lot of things about that place, it was one creepy ass place in the 1950's. They did "insulin shock", elctro shock, had straight jackets and seclusion rooms with chains. I've been there twice, only been through about half of it. My first guide said she started in 1967 as a nurse. I asked her if she knew Walter Freeman, she snarled "DOCTOR FREEMAN" like I'd said something wrong and Freeman was God. I got the impression she either knew or knew of Freeman. She said Freeman did the lobotomies in the "medical building, on the first floor". She pointed to it, it had bars on the windows, I didn't go in that one. (it costed more). There are tunnels all under that place, they were used to move patients in the winter between buildings. She said once a patient got down in there and they wanted her to go look for him. She said she'd never do that again. My second guide was a young girl but she was extremely knowledgeable about the place. She said the thing that would have scared her the most was a "Uttica crib". I thought "what the hell is a Uttica crib"? She pointed to it, I was standing about 1 foot away from it. It was a large box made out of heavy wooden slats about the size and shape of a coffin. She said they would lock patients in them and ship them in on trains. She said the patients were always screaming because they didn't know where they were going. I think they outlawed Uttica cribs in the 1920's or 30's. I wandered into one room by myself, there was a child's coffin sitting on a trolley that looked like about the 1920's. I didn't open the lid. That place was still open in the 1980's, here a video about it--kzbin.info/www/bejne/l33VnKWEbtuAeZo

[@Garbeaux.]

Wait, he was giving a person more than one lobotomy?! Freeman was forced to stop after a patient died undergoing her third lobotomy! Like wtf?

[@jungschiffer8423]

These surgeons had much terrible mental issues than their patients. I mean how on earth you are inspired to create a surgical tool from an icepick in your kitchen and then probed it into the patients brains through their eyelids? That is just plain madness!

[@miss.conduct8083]

I understand your disgust, I really do, but 70 years ago, this is where we were in the mental health field. Remember that doctor who was mocked and laughed at due to his belief in hand-washing would save lives & prevent disease? Not all lobotomies reverted the PT to a 2-year-old. There were actual success stories (as fuked up as that sounds). Has your cheese ever slid off your cracker? Have you've ever slipped into the depths of an endless depression, the kind where the abyss stares back, thoughts of how you could induce suicide daily, and in your mind - that route makes far more sense as well as no longer being a burden, and even then, in the trenches of those dark thoughts, you think one couldn't possibly get lower?, Your sick brain realizes your own personal hell actually has a spiral staircase that continues to lead you to a basement. Yeah, 0 out of 10, would not recommend. 7 decades ago, I think I'd choose that route! And if botched? Well, I'd never know now, would I? My 'new life' sans depression & that 7 year headache would probably consist of church, cross stitching doilys for all the neighbors' couches & darting socks! (All 3 things I don't do) 🤷‍♀️ And no more migraines! Idk, I think I've become desensitized after struggling w my own mental health. I'm good now, in fact, I'm wonderful, but for years (yes, years!), I wasn't. It started with rumblings of this unimaginable anxiety? I am premenstrual, but I couldn't shake it? This anxiety was physical! Leading to loss of sleep. Couldn't get in to see a doc for 9 mos. 2 mos into my 9 month wait, I reached out - again, letting them know "look, I'm struggling & I'm not doing okay.." I was told, "Well, if it gets worse, go to the ER." How does one know when that level of "worse" is, exactly? Not to mention the underlying depression? And then theres the "they'll think im a drug seeker!" A few days after that shit show of a call, a very good friend of mine was able to get me a couple Xanax. Guess what? That Xanax wasn't Xanax. It was Fentynol, Methamphetamine & PCP, oh my! At least, that's what my toxicology screen showed in the ER after Narcan was administered by the ambulance crew in my own home. (my friend had no clue. She only tried to help, we don't use fkng drugs!?) I just needed some help in the meantime. I'd been to my PCP and my OB/Gyn and discussed this w them. (I never came out and said "I need something for this anxiety." Isn't that the sure way you aint getting ish!?) The mental health clinic here knew, and yet I got pep talks from them on how to hang tight (P.S. they really shouldn't have used that phrase), and how "7 months would pass quicker than I thought." 🤳 Hi! It's me, I'm the problem. it's me. It's all part of being hormonal & and it's perfectly normal, you don't want to work yourself into a diagnosis of histrionic. (Okay, I added that last part) I guess my heart hurts because this staff & team has all been handchosen - by me! My highly skilled & smart medical professionals just didn't listen to me or worse, they didn't take me seriously, yet every one of them could viscerally feel the level of anxiety just fkng radiating off me. Women are so medically gaslit, it's criminal, could have been deadly. Ain't NO WAY I could survive another episode, that for sure. "It's fucked up when your minds playin tricks on ya" (as I dig around my kitchen drawer - I'm kidding😂) Stay well!❤

[@mr.mustacheman7748]

It doesn't take a genius to realize cutting someones brain in half isn't a good idea.

[@beth-bi9yv]

This is so horrible. Disgusting abuse of power.....it chills me to think how helpless those made to get it must have felt.

[@RangerLifts]

Patient “I’m depressed” Doctor “Let’s put a taser in your brain”

[@dacypher22]

Walter Friedman considered the psychiatric drugs developed late in his career to be "barbarism". He felt that sticking an ice pick in their brain and wiggling it around was the only humane treatment.

[@psyclotronxx3083]

I couldn't finish watching this. Barbaric

[@annabell3385]

I like how craziness is implicated because someone "just got up and left their job."

[@awright119021]

She also said she didn't feel anything and wasn't capable of showering or taking care of herself. And it wasn't "craziness", it was severe depression.

[@tinkletink1403]

being an employee is hell ... capitalism is to blame @@awright119021

[@earthling1984]

Lobotomy won a nobel prize?!? Wow... Just wow...

[@catherinebyrne1796]

Unbelievable what people got away with

[@RichieI]

Those same people run your life bud

[@mariztenorio7402]

the narrator's voice is vibrating inside my head as he speaks

[@fatmaaksu7659]

*someone exists* freeman: YOU NEED LOBOTOMY

[@the-enders]

They’re still actively working to bury the horrific way Rosemary was treated. Her father never once visited her. A movie was being worked on called “Letters from Rosemary” in 2018 and they buried it before it could get made.

[@C0nejin]

We all got this recommended for one reason 🔥🕳

[@miss.conduct8083]

Taa!! Hilarious! "Do you too suffer from headaches? No longer want to do the dishes? Look no further.."

[@MSW96]

Wow! I happened to read that Rosemary Kennedy book a few months ago. Her story was so sad. :(

[@mariasofola7577]

I live in Ireland, in John f Kennedys father's town, his relations are neighbours of mine, there's a new bridge called the rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Bridge look it up

[@orangutank626]

I have a question, how would the disconnect brain tissue after the lobotomy not affect a persons health? If that brain tissue is cut and removed from the thalamus it is no longer receiving blood supply or oxygen, how does that part of the brain not rot inside the persons head?

[@katherinefielder3415]

What the hell!!.....a lobotomy on a little boy because he had trouble getting along with family?!!! That is insanity right there

[@BruceDanton-xw6eg]

It sure is too.

[@josecristovao9027]

You didn't talk about the man who won the Nobel Prize, Dr. António Egas Moniz. He invented leucotomy (that's its real name) for the most serious and desperate cases. It was Freeman who invented a more invasive procedure, started calling it lobotomy and became a fanboy of brain snipping for every case of mild sadness. Egas Moniz also invented angiography, without which we couldn't make X-rays on our brains (and for which, BTW, he was twice nominated for the Nobel).

[@shielamariehankinson3824]

....yea, Nobel Peace Prize is how the true psychopaths keep each other extremely wealthy.

[@ezra55595]

Wow, maybe in the future I can get a brain implant that cancels out the bad parts of my ADHD and depression/anxiety and I can just keep the good bits, like my hyper focus. Can you imagine being able to switch off a suicidal or irrational thought? Or turn on a filter when you go to the store to keep you from distractions? I mean, it’d be great; but the implications!

[@jessicacole9502]

Freeman didn't care. He just wanted to make neurodivergent people to be quieter and for freeman to be famous. And a lot of families wanted to "cure" the family shame

[@lizagonzalez6372]

I can't believe they just glossed over psychedelic therapy. That is where the cutting edge treatment is at today and no surgery or long term meds needed. If you are interested check out the work that the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies is doing, it's amazing!

[@deckearns]

I think big pharma knew about the benefits of psychedelic drugs but had by then invested heavily on patented drugs. They needed to recover research costs and sell their design drugs. Unfortunately the phychedelic approach was abandoned and subsequently those drugs made illegal. It's an actual crime that this happened, all in the name of profit.

[@edg6779]

They're just like yo that's pretty unconventional... moving on, anti-depressant are comparable to lobotomy with plant medicine used for thousands of years

[@iakdrawllim4127]

Totally agree with you! Psychedelic therapy could seriously help an incredible amount of “incurable” people in such short time, what a shame it isn’t so widely practiced. However I will say it certainly isn’t without its own risks, even still it should be put into practice

[@TheWoodland12]

Tell more about rosemary. Like how she was born during the flu pandemic. Because of that it took the doctors a long time to get to the kennedy home and the nurse didn’t won’t the baby to be born until the doctor got there . The nurse forcibly held rosemary inside her mom until the doctor came.

[@crunchyfrog63]

The Tennessee Williams play depicted in the video wasn't simply an example of lobotomy "in popular culture". In fact, the playwright's sister was lobotomized as a teenager and became completely debilitated for the rest of her life. This was one of the major traumas of Wiliams's own life, so it's not surprising that the subject would have come up in one of his plays.

[@DanielSilva-kf7dz]

Is there any study that shows something saying this Doctor Freeman was a pychopath?

[@JohnPedimore]

I think this is wonderful. My life was ruined because of anxiety and depression. It was overwhelming and unbearable. Thank God I was led to Xanax and citalprahm. I'm not bothered at all anymore. I asked my doctor if I should ever go off. He said, if you had high blood pressure would you just stop that. That was my answer. Although I rarley take Xanax now.

[@gjs2500]

William Thisbal u think this is wonderful lmao

[@Missditabomb]

Exactly, "First Do No Harm". These patients were subjected to the most barbaric "treatments" of the day. NON-treatments. They were not healed, but the medical community would never, ever admit that. Despicable.

[@kingkoda1992]

A nurse gave me Thorazine when I was in the hospital, that pill made me lose my awareness and I was crawling on the floor unable to speak.

[@lindawinegar1311]

A nurse administered you the Thorazine prescription BECAUSE the physician ordered it!!! Nurses do not prescribe medications.

[@maiaramanone6751]

@@lindawinegar1311 thank youuuu! Nurses always get the blame; we LEGIT save patients everyday from ruthless MD’s

[@JCReynardus]

Another great story!!!

[@jordanhodgkins8238]

This doesn’t even make me angry, just makes me sad! 😞 all our brothers and sisters before us paid a valuable price!!! Medication is most certainly the way forward for more serious mental health issues not hospitals or forced therapies!!

[@monkeynumbernine]

There is definitely a place for hospitals. Some people would greatly benefit from being hospitalized.

[@nverted-dynamo]

Half of people with serious mental illness (Bipolar 1 and Schizophrenia) relapse because they don't think they're ill. Hence why they revolve in and out of hospitals. Required medications is necessary in that group. Unfortunately, most laws only allow that in hospitals.

[@kaitie648]

I have autism. This presents itself in multiple anxiety disorders, a mood disorder, depression and obsessive compulsive disorder which also includes dermatillomania. If I was born any time before let’s say 1980, I would have either been institutionalized or had one of these procedures. I’ve been so drugged by hospital staffs that all I could do was lay in bed and cry. I was seen as explosive, which was a side effect of a medication I was on, so instead of helping me when I was hospitalized for the third time, they put me on Haldol. Haldol lasts in your body for a long time, somewhere between 14 hours and 36 hours. I was being given it every few hours. I would sleep through the night, get a pill in the late morning and go back to my room to sleep. When I woke up, I’d eat my dinner, visit with my mother and shower. Then they’d give me more haldol. I slept and would be woken up for more. I’d wake up the next morning, at about noonish. I could not imagine being alive at the same time as Rosemary Kennedy. I would probably have been mutilated as well. And if I was born around the same time as my parents, the late 60s/early 70s, it would have been beaten out of me. Even if I was born any time before 2001, I would have probably just been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder because that’s how my autism appears. A lot of women with autism get misdiagnosed.

[@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165]

I was born in the 70s, have the same story, (no beatings-by staff) & was* diagnosed with BPD/OCD. I can't imagine that much Haldol. That's inhuman. I was lucky. They just gave me a shot of Thorazine if I was on a tear, and it would drop me. I got out, tried everything, finally found the right meds & haven't been hospitalized since 2002! I hope you got out & are doing ok!!✌💗

[@kaitie648]

Alysia Mer David-Wasser I’m improving! And yes, it is inhumane. They also hand out Ativan like it’s candy to the children and adults who stop in. The doctor there shouldn’t be working.

[@liamwalders5426]

You know, 2 members of the Kennedy family had a lobotomy, just 1 happened in a hospital and the other happened in the backseat of a Lincoln.

[@JIMJAMSC]

Now it is done with pills. From anxiety,being hyper, sleepy, not sleeping, overly happy, sad,bad memory,anxiety and on and on... There is Dr near you with pills of every shape,size and color to treat your every problem. And don't mind that black box label or list of side effects that folds out to be 6 feet long in tiny print.

[@Pbgum]

That's why mental health is important and people have to take it seriously, its not a phase or getting attention...its hard for these patiens to be in that state but making it worse for them.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

This is a really good documentary! This is the first video of yours that I've watched, and I've subscribed. It looks, and sounds, like a well-financed tv documentary, not a cheap KZbin one. Did you just make it for KZbin, or did it appear on tv, as well? I don't know why you only have 26,000 followers, because you deserve more.

[@AiraCamille]

Thankful that we have an advanced medicine and equipments now. I appreciate.

[@silviab.850]

That Freeman doctor was a madman.

[@NYCWendy1]

Aww great story! Mr. Fritz just passed away on July 31, 2020 at the age of 97. May he Rest In Peace he served our country in the Air Force- what a great man.

[@FLATTZCLUR]

Modern psychosurgery is such a tricky field, because for the most part when operating on someone’s brain to reduce stress/depression/anxiety you’re going first of all in uncharted territory, the brain is a complex minefield we don’t quite understand, many of the results can be seen immediately after the procedure, and there’s a terrible history of failure behind it. You couldn’t pay me to go into that field (though I’m not smart enough to anyway)

[@LectronCircuits]

No doubt many patients said, "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." Cheers!

[@missmoxie9188]

LectronCircuits Harry Nilsson

[@rabboyce4770]

LectronCircuits Richard Dreyfus said that in jaws😂😂

[@peterbrowne3268]

Grouchy Marx said it as a wisecrack before any of these guys.

[@jessicafain6630]

I absolutely love hearing a Dr. say that they DON'T understand something. Because that's the damn truth. Most psychiatrists are egotistical assholes. One if the biggest things they need to start teaching them is that anxiety and depression are NOT the same thing just because they both derive from basically the same part of the brain. I've suffered from both, and I know that they're extremely different.

[@MrJruta]

Yes!!! They are completely wrong, it’s not even remotely the same. I agree

[@awright119021]

If any psychiatrist is telling you they are the same, they are an idiot. No legitimate, educated person thinks they are the same. That's why there are 2 separate diagnoses for each disorder. Sure you can have both at one time, but you can also have each one individually.

[@Cruella_DG]

As a mental health nurse. I’m horrified by the way patients were treated. My heart bleeds for those poor souls

[@4hand561]

Patient: my knee hurts Dr freeman: lobotomy

[@witchypoo7353]

This new surgery sounds really amazing. I wonder if it could have saved my friend

[@allenmiller2071]

Nothing has changed since the 30's. Watch the movie "First Do No Harm" on KZbin. Its criminal what happens in the modern medical profession.

[@holkangel]

Firstly, First do no harm is a 1997 film... A lot has changed since the 1930s and a lot has changed in the last 10 years alone. There are still great problems medicine is facing, and not once will there be side effects, misindicated operations, bad decisions... But by saying that nothing has changed, you diminish and belittle the work of many a good, empathetic and devoted professional... That is not fair or true. Nothing is ever that black and white.

[@yvonnepettersen8842]

I was given shock treatments for depression but the doctor gave it out as punishment was terrifying also lost 10 years of my life no memory of anything in that time before The shocks were given without anesthetics as well That's hell to go through

[@TainaElisabeth]

Imagine going to the doctor for migraines and being described an ice pick to the brain

[@AnneettaLife]

It's amazing how far we've come.

[@annril4716]

I am so glad to live in this day and age. It’s not perfect but damn at least I have a shot at getting better. I suffer from frequent migraines and other unpleasant headaches, as well as insomnia, anxiety, and some form of highly functioning depression. Man am I glad not to have been alive back then... phew.

[@sebastianoviedo253]

What’s medically advanced about a ice pick to the eye socket

[@GraceMallory-is-awesome]

God, I’m glad I live when I do.

[@sarahkostkova6613]

Grace Mallory one day they’ll say that about chemotherapy

[@Itgyrl909]

Plot twist: Dr. Freeman was the real mental patient.