Locked Up For 17 Years Without Charge [Long Shorts]

[@alexjames7144]

I love how "moral imbecile" seems to have meant "smart enough to be sick of our bullshit". Fascinating how the English language changes.

[@WyvernYT]

If a person is an immoral imbecile, they are allowed to stand for Parliament.

[@scottessery100]

The categorisation of moron idiot and imbecile was based on iq up until the 1970s

[@jetblackjoy]

Moral imbeciles by imbecilic morals

[@zooo131]

I bet for example the Chinese government has a quite similar word for that today.

[@nomisunrider6472]

Tale as old as time. When you can't summon the public support to abuse the vulnerable and oppressed legally, make a very loose law that can easily be abused to create a pretense for it, then act like you're surprised when that happens.

[@yidavv]

But we are living in a different time, right? Surely nothing like this can ever happen again /s

[@jetblackjoy]

​​@@yidavvyou live in a different country. In mine it still works precisely like this with no /s.

[@Ice_Karma]

@@jetblackjoy Which country is yours?

[@BH-zx4dm]

​@@jetblackjoyat does/s mean?

[@sourwitch2340]

​@@BH-zx4dm /s is a tone tag that says "I'm being sarcastic"

[@toomanymonkeys21]

She dared to use the word “condescending” while female/young/working class

[@wyrdness]

I don't know what's more shocking, her long incarceration for being a bit bolshy, or *The News of the World* helping to shame the council in to letting her go!

[@Anelisa8520]

Well, I know I’ve learned a new word, having never heard “bolshy/bolshie.” It must be a British thing. So much so, my AutoCorrect changed it to “boldly.” Twice. 👀

[@janearmstrong7945]

There must have been so many ADHD and autism ladies treated in this way.

[@Krilium]

Not just ladies

[@petesmart1983]

Yep anyone with disabilitys would be sent to institutions , or if they were outspoken or badly behaved. If they didn't have problems they would come out with major ones

[@seajelly2421]

This kind of injustice was and still is perpetuated disproportionately against girls and women, communities of colour, and low-income families.

[@seajelly2421]

@@psychohist it's absolutely part of US history. Canadian, too.

[@gregoryvn3]

Facts

[@PumpkinJack31]

ABSOLUTELY! 100% TRUE!!

[@petesmart1983]

Not in the UK thankfully but I know cases in America were girls got pregnant out of wedlock and been put into institutes etc.

[@Boomette53]

That’s a hell of a sentence for just having an attitude! 😮

[@jessicalee333]

It's better than a lobotomy, which was one of the other early/mid 20th century treatments for women with an attitude.

[@popefang]

moral embicile? have they looked at Boris Johnson?

[@NigelMarston]

He's immoral

[@gillbaldwin712]

Big difference money in the family​@@NigelMarston

[@420sakura1]

Brita loved him because of it.

[@takemeaway285]

He's immoral AND an imbecile.

[@yaelz6043]

Who do you think uses these laws on their enemies?

[@1Kapuchu100]

Do we know what became of her? Considering the times, I imagine it must have been incredibly difficult to get on your feet at 33, while having been locked up for over half your life.

[@amandasunshine2]

It's hard these days too. Tbh her story isn't terribly different from my own..

[@maggieavilla1336]

​@amandasunshine2 not that it's easy, but these days, it is easier. There are lots of programs to help people who used to be incarcerated get and keep jobs.

[@amandasunshine2]

@@maggieavilla1336 well, kinda, and those programs are largely for criminal incarceration, not the special kind of imprisonment this is

[@maggieavilla1336]

@amandasunshine2 there are programs for those with mental disabilities too. My uncle is schizophrenic. 2nd chance hiring also works for people with work history gaps.

[@amandasunshine2]

@@maggieavilla1336 ok, you seem to not know about the programs I'm talking about

[@cannibalbananas]

I feel that I would've been locked up too. I was a very defiant child who spoke my mind. My mom called me stubborn. It's sad to think about how many people we lost or beat down to compliance that were doing nothing more than thinking for themselves and voicing their opinions.

[@josephkarl2061]

The thing that scares me most about "moral imbecile" is you can sneeze the wrong way, and suddenly you're incarcerated 😮 Remind me to start walking with my right foot first, just in case...

[@LoriCiani]

Ah, 70s teenagers in Glasgow, if you couldn’t be pigeon holed then you were sent to an “adolescent unit” in a mental hospital. Eskdale House in the Crichton Royal Hospital, Dumfries. There you would find every kind of out of the ordinary teenager. From anorexia nervosa, autism, to a degenerative disorder of the eyes or just having an abusive alcoholic father. The parents were promised that the child’s education would be taken care of. The reality was that there were two burned out teachers who couldn’t give a s£&:e. Nobody got an education in the school rooms of Eskdale House. The psychologists were of no help at all and never really understood anything, but were quick to dole out the drugs or force feed the anorexics. They never did anything to negate the them and us culture that was between staff and patients. It was a nightmare place. The mental institution is now a bunch of redeveloped offices in parkland, or so I have heard.

[@amandasunshine2]

This basically happened to me, including forced use of birth control I didn't want and legal custody granted to my abusive mother after I was 18. AMA

[@infpdreams]

I'm so sorry you went through that. I hope things are at least starting to get better for you no. (Also, happy pride month!)

[@cplcabs]

forced use of birth control. There is clearly more to this story than you are letting on.

[@cplcabs]

There is clearly more to this than you are letting on.

[@amandasunshine2]

@@cplcabs yes, that's why I invited questions 👍

[@md.tahseenraza4791]

The council should be ashamed that they single handedly ruin the youth years of many innocent people...

[@user-gq9hn6nb8k]

"an innocent" it's the "an" that struck me. Because, and I know what you are saying here, but I just want to add the point that it was far, far, many more than just the the one.

[@md.tahseenraza4791]

@@user-gq9hn6nb8k Point duly noted

[@petesmart1983]

It wasn't the council it happened everywhere from the government

[@RuthBhmand]

Thank you for giving the book reference ❤❤❤ I make screenshots and pester my local librarian with your book recommendations, 😁. They then send requests of to university libraries 500km away. It’s a party, for me.

[@WeirdWonderful]

Is there really no additional information about her ? I tried to look up the News of the World story, but with just "Marjorie B. Etloe House" all I get is this video and hits for the Etloe House itself.

[@AJansenNL]

I hope she was not irreparable harmed by her incarceration, and that she managed to live a good and healthy life afterwards.

[@cannibalbananas]

@@AJansenNL And that she never spoke to her family again. Did they even try to get her back?

[@andrewwebb917]

I imagine that's where the newspaper got the story ​@@cannibalbananas

[@sarahwise2161]

Marjorie's story was in the News of the World edition of 22 October 1950, story titled ‘Marjorie at 33 Is Free for the First Time’. Not on the internet as the rights to the archive copies are still in copyright

[@WeirdWonderful]

@@sarahwise2161 Thanks

[@Brasswatchman]

Found a bit about Etloe House online: "In around 1907 the house was converted for use as a convent for the Sisters of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary... [w]ith the help of charitable donations, they acquired Etloe House for 100 destitute women and girls, and constructed a working laundry in the grounds. By 1916 the home was used as an Institution under the Mental Deficiency Act 1913 for Roman Catholic women, some of whom worked in the laundry. The home continued to be used into the 1970s, and closed when the Sisters moved to Chigwell Convent." -- wait, was this an English version of the Magdalene laundries?

[@happybat1977]

I'm not sure people realise this is the sort of abuse we sign on for when we send 'that sort of child' to a different school

[@hyun-shik7327]

And I bet they got rid of that rule when they realized that if stupidity was enough to get thrown in prison, all the MPs would have to be there.

[@davidshi451]

What a horrifying story. What year was this, exactly?

[@sarahwise2161]

She was released in the autumn of 1950

[@Brasswatchman]

​@@sarahwise2161 So she would've been incarcerated in 1933, then, right?

[@sarahwise2161]

@@Brasswatchman Yes. I've got the cutting on my laptop but have no idea how to upload it here. The main details of the case are in my book, which J mentions at the end, along with lots of other examples of people 'put away' under the Mental Deficiency Act of 1913 (repealed in 1959)

[@Brasswatchman]

@@sarahwise2161 Oh, wow, I didn't realize you were the actual author! Thanks for answering questions here. I appreciate it.

[@justforplaylists]

Was someone making money off this system?

[@sarahwise2161]

Sort of, inasmuch as the intelligent and capable patients worked in the institutions for either no pay or low pay, so keeping running costs down with cheap labour

[@namastezen3300]

Thank you.

[@southie21]

And this happened just last century. Etloe House still stands but as flats, the nuns who ran the laundry are now in Chigwell. I hate that you didn't have to be convicted of a crime to be sent to laundries in 6 countries and they were only closed in 1996. To this day, the nuns in Ireland refuse to apologise or give court-ordered monies to affected survivors.

[@dombo813]

These parts of society fascinate me, from the angle of "how did this come about". Its easy to just look at something like this and go "those crazy victorians!", but it wasn't the result of some inherent and general societal evilness. There was a series of events that specifically led someone to think that the idea of the moral imbecile was a useful and valid one that would better society, but also that the fair solution was to spend money separating these people from society, rather than exile them for free.

[@dfdemt]

Please do more long form content. Like the one you did on Boudicca.

[@ancorgarciaalvarez]

She was lock up for being sassy WTF?

[@petesmart1983]

Well women wernt allowed a voice or to speak against men, so many women were locked up for this. Which is a big thing in history on Britain(witch trials etc) the church has always hated strong women

[@R4t10n4L]

"bolshy" - that's a new one

[@ms.antithesis]

As someone who went to an sen school in the 2010's.. I can assure you it's not much better now

[@finchhawthorne1302]

This is still extremely common today. Of course these days there’s usually some label of neuroatypicality to justify the oppression. In the US the most common phrasing is “danger to self or others” which is pretty much a by word for “different” and allows for in practice indefinite incarceration without any actual criminal offense or trial. (The sort of thing that tends to make people frustrated desperate and confused enough to read as dangerous, feeding the feedback loop.)

[@tubebrocoli]

yup, this. just stick the label "dangerous" to people and you can do whatever you want to a whole group or even an entire identity without any kind of due process, or at least exclude them from the conversation about them completely. this is currently being actively done to trans people in the uk.

[@Love-and-Salt]

@@tubebrocoli Would you tell me more about this? I’m an American and don’t know that much about politics in the UK. I heard the British healthcare system really struggles with comprehensive gender affirming care, but I haven’t heard of people being detained for being a “dangerous.”

[@amandasunshine2]

It's pretty much what happened to me

[@amandasunshine2]

​@@Love-and-Salt I'm in America and this basically happened to me. Residential treatment centers, RTCs

[@hanstun1]

It is extremely uncommon today in most parts of the world. The mental health reforms of the 1980s went too far in the opposite direction. Someone figured out that you could save a lot of money of you changed the definition of being capable to take care of your self. We have a few people clearly in deep psychosis around where I live and if they say they don't want to go to a hospital no one can force them. One froze to death last winter, one has a broken foot and is so far gone that he does not realize he needs help. Many, MANY are dying from self medication with street drugs. A forced injection of long lasting antipsychotics for starters and most of them would be able to live much better lives.

[@egisshield]

I am genuinely tearing up right now.

[@evilsharkey8954]

Look up Kalief Browder. It still happens but for different reasons

[@douglaschudleigh8051]

Shocking that this can happen 😢

[@whoeveriam0iam14222]

I don't think i want to read that book It doesn't sound like a happy book

[@pinstripesuitandheels]

Yeah... It's sounds like an alternate history for my own life.

[@a.s.3267]

I know what you mean. It's great that Jenny is getting the word out about this history though. It's important that we all know about it.

[@SomeoneBeginingWithI]

yeah

[@ShashBells]

I'm kinda sad, if I was born in the same time as her. They would've locked me up as well. I'm not passing in any of my academics well especially in Mathematics. And then I just discovered the term *'Dyscalculia'* as the reason why I always flunked in anything related to Maths itself.

[@kathrynbillinghurst188]

🙋🏼‍♀️ …me too! 🤦‍♀️ Just maths…still have trouble!

[@connortheandroidsentbycybe7740]

The NOTW? Given what they were before they folded that... Is surprising

[@hairyairey]

To really blow your mind, it was the Daily Mail that campaigned successfully for Zola Budd to get British citizenship.

[@connortheandroidsentbycybe7740]

@@hairyairey iunno, man, it sounds in line with something they'd do. Use the best of the foreigners & claim they were British, actually is so baked into our DNA that our patron saint was born in what would be Turkey. And that's without mentioning that she was South African; the mail has always had a propensity to supporting fascists.

[@hairyairey]

@@connortheandroidsentbycybe7740 As has Time magazine! However Zola's knowledge of the political situation in her own country seems to have been extremely lacking.

[@connortheandroidsentbycybe7740]

@@hairyairey oh, I wasn't calling Zola a fascist. I was saying that it wasn't surprising that the mail were giving a fascist country a way to circumvent the sanctions placed upon them. Also, I dunno if I'd say Time mag outright supported them. Like, yes, I know that they named Hitler person of the year for example, but that seems to me to be more not being critical of their own criteria. So stupid yes, but not outright support. The mail on the other hand sent out issues with the headline "Hurrah for the Blackshirts", for example

[@hairyairey]

I recommend a visit to the Bodmin Court experience to learn what a community can do to an innocent man

[@philipmalaby8172]

I don’t know why but the term ‘moral imbecile’ cracks me up. 😂

[@Heothbremel]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@theonetempus]

It would be nice if you'd put the book title and author's name in the Dubbely Do...

[@stevenroberts9409]

Hope she sued

[@notalcno9]

Does this still happen ? Asking for a friend. 😢😅

[@Lord_Shrek_of_the_Swamp]

It's because she's always on her phone. (Joke)

[@pinstripesuitandheels]

A few centuries earlier she probably would've been persecuted as a witch. 😊

[@lars573]

If you mean literally 2 or 3 centuries, then maybe. Mass witch panics are only really a thing after the reformation. When witch finding was privatized as a for profit business and not solely run by the church.

[@rsmlinar1720]

Also it wssnt as common as many people think. I think combined number for women and men executed for wichcraft for the 300 or so year period is about 30-60k for the whole Europe and the Americas combined. So abouut 200 people a year on avarage for 3 continents. It was really intense in a few places ina few periods, but it wasnt some trend

[@wezacunha2405]

I am improving my accent from your videos. You have a peculiar way of speaking.

[@The-KP]

That's craaazy. Here in the States they'd just let you drop out of school. Unless you had serious mental illness, then up to the 1980s you might've been institutionalized. But now there's no federal and very little state funding for that.

[@paulherman5822]

Not so. Look at the eugenics stuff. In my home state of Michigan, multiple kids were even sterilized just because they were put in an institution because of their parents getting divorced, guardian passed away, or because they were just considered "juvenile delinquents." Happened well into the 20th century. Humans, as a whole, are horrible creatures to each other.

[@jamesholland8057]

Yes UK is hell in 1913. Flee for your life!

[@jacobalexandersmith619]

I posted this in the comments regarding your piece on Abney Park cemetery, which i only recently viewed; My cousin paid for that. Did you know my ancestor William de Measham Abney lent the money to peel's business partner. peel whose spawn peel jr. invented the met polis? He also took his ancient coach, footmen etc.. to meet Bonnie Prince Charlie in York. There's also William de Wiveleslie Abney, he was a wee bit bright, by all accounts, my grandmother met him when he stayed in Folkestone. She popped over from her folks gaff in Echinghen.The place where Napoleon Bonaparte planned his barge invasion of england, whilst shagging the mayors wife. Chateau de Belle Isle, or Manoir de Menneville. I know a wee bit about history myself. An awful lot of it concerns my kin.

[@jonathanwessner3456]

Wait til you hear some o fthe things about American Justice. Like, being arrested for resisting arrest when you literally did NOTHING ELSE.

[@Jay-ho9io]

Do you think many people who are arrested, admit they've done anything?

[@Ice_Karma]

@@Jay-ho9io He didn't say "when you CLAIM you literally did nothing else", he said "when you literally did nothing else". There's a difference.

[@Jay-ho9io]

@@Ice_Karma yeah. Only almost everyone *claims* they literally did nothing else. It's an empty statement. The entire US criminal justice system is as screwed up as a football bat. Zero argument. That is a fact like water is wet. And yet still people commit crimes and lie, and something has to be done about that. You just can't take someone's word for it when they say they didn't do anything. No one who ever actually did anything, ever did.

[@JensMorrison]

Diagnosis: Being a woman. Makes sense.

[@kathrynbillinghurst188]

😘 YOU are sooo clever young lady! 💐💕🌷 …and I adore your enthusiasm too! ✌️🤓👍

[@neptun2810]

It’s quite absurd when you think about the fact that this, as well as many other human rights violating things, was still common during and even after WW2. I often imagine some soldier in the 1940s talking to his comrades like “why are we fighting the Axis again? Because they’re evil? Because they randomly jail anyone they don’t like without charge? Because they’re racist?”

[@LucidLivingYT]

I believe the most common mentality was "if we don't come here and kill these people in their homeland, they'll do it to us in ours". The nations were just at war, it wasn't some grand ideological conflict as much as just a military one.

[@Brasswatchman]

Because they killed the kids they locked up without trial instead of just institutionalizing them? Because yeah, the Nazis did that.

[@petesmart1983]

Because uk we're basically Nazis but we didn't invade anyone in Europe our government and royals were definitely still far right and big influence from the church. If it wasn't for ww2 the women still wouldn't of had the vote, Welsh,Irish and Scottish would still be banned languages among other things. After ww2 Churchill genocided millions proving that we were no different to the Nazis or communists

[@aguythatworkstoomuch4624]

Sorry but I think you are beautiful . You don’t wear makeup because you know you don’t need to. You really seem like an awesome woman that actually has interesting things to say as well. I like the channel and your content. Keep it up!!!

[@Ice_Karma]

You're creepy as hell. You do understand, don't you, that, most of the time, when a man thinks a woman isn't wearing any makeup, she's still wearing makeup, but not so much that she looks "made up", right? And when she _really_ isn't wearing makeup, she'll be asked if she's sick/tired/etc...

[@CCoburn3]

Next, do a video on Julian Assange.

[@gregoryvn3]

I hate it here.

[@exilestudios9546]

We need to bring this back. Society is fucked and giving people with mebtal disorders freedom is the cause.

[@yaowsers77]

so. many. jokes. must. not. speak. aloud! 🤣

[@reezdog]

Free room and board.