MIDI Guitar 3 - Introducing the MIDI Guitar 3 Hex

[@brotherdust]

I was just thinking about this today! Thanks for making this! I’m gonna use the crap out of this!

[@lofileif]

Glad to hear. I guess there are a few HexPU users out there longing for something better than what we have had up until now? 😀

[@brotherdust]

@@lofileif I’m kinda new to the whole MIDI guitar thing. I’m in the process of integrating the Fishman Triple Play (FTP) pickup into my Strandberg Boden. There’s not enough space near the bridge for the “non-invasive” install. So, I’ve cut the coils out and placed them in individual enclosures that I can put anywhere. Kinda like the Cycfi Nu v2’s but passive and much smaller. I actually like the FTP’s tracking capabilities, but I think MIDIGuitar v3 is superior. That’s why I was excited for this. If the FTP doesn’t work out, I’ll slap a set of Nu pickups on.

[@lofileif]

@@brotherdust You don't sound all that new to this MIDI stuff to me! 😄 Are you thinking of using the FTP rather than the Cycle Nu +MG3 Hex?

[@brotherdust]

@@lofileif I’m … not certain where I’m going to land on this project. Option 1 is to use the modified FTP pickups and the FTP Connect board for hardware tracking Option 2 is to put the Connect into … I don’t remember what the mode was called, but I think it’s possible to just pass through the 6-channel audio to MG3 If 1 isn’t all that great, and 2 isn’t possible: Option 3: I bought a set of Nu pickups. I’ve some idea on how I will integrate this into the Boden: 3, Easy: Replace the bridge pickup, install the internal breakout and use a Nexus 3, Hard: Offset the neck by 2mm towards the bridge (done), modify the saddles to be 3mm shorter (prep work is done as it was also required to accommodate the FTP coils), modify the floating bridge base plate to accommodate the Nu’s or just have one made. I have already produced a complete digital twin of the EGS v5 bridge and ancillary parts, accurate to the nearest 0.05mm ish. I have some CNC buddies who would be willing to mill a new base plate of modified design; I’ll just have to anodize it. Option 4: Scorched earth! Finish making a digital twin of my Boden, modify it for native Nu usage (CV controls and all!); maybe add in some fixes/creature comforts while I’m making a whole new guitar… but that’s a long term goal. So, yeah, I’m new to MIDI guitar, but it’s not my first rodeo with design and modifications. I’ve seriously considered just modifying a cheap Strat clone, but I’m really in love with the Strandberg design. Most comfortable, easy to play electric I’ve ever owned. So, yeah. Short term gonna have to be brave and make some modifications; long term, my goal is to produce an updated iteration of the Boden design, and incorporate a number of changes of my own invention and/or from ideas I’ve found here and there that are going to take an already great design and move it forward to current state of the art and a little bit beyond. No interest in starting a guitar company. It’s just for me. I digress…

[@tomwatson283]

Excellent video. As always. Looking more and more interesting.

[@lofileif]

Thank you.🙏👍

[@Alex_Martz]

Looking forward for the stable Windows and iOS version

[@lofileif]

The Windows version shouldn't be far off. The iOS is probably a little further into the future. 👍

[@tranquilitybase6417]

Me too! iPadOS!

[@joshuadsmusic94]

Yes, looking forward to the iPadOS version :)

[@EdBMetal]

Yes, same here. Really looking forward to the iOS app!

[@rectangulardots]

Yeah, IOS hopefully soon

[@StephenScottMusic]

Hi again Leif, so are you connecting the USB B from the GP10 directly to the MAC and bypassing your Scarlett audio interface?

[@lofileif]

Yes! That way you can send the six audio streams from the hexaphonic pickup directly to the computer. I am still using the Focusrite Scarlett for the output though.

[@aris9125]

@lofileif Hi!! thank you for your interesting videos on Guitar Midi 3...one question please: The HEX tracking is better than the normal tracking? i am trying to strum classic guitar VSTi in Kontakt and Palm Mute on VSTi Electric Guitar libraries aswell but no luck. Would consider the HEX solution if it can really improve tracking over traditional method. Also please can you tell me if with the more expensive HEX solution, can i load any VSTi like we do on the normal tracking? Thanks in advance for your reply and keep Rocking!!!

[@lofileif]

The HEX tracking is precisely for those things. Strumming the guitar, or even slamming six-note chords, everything comes out perfect (for me at least 😃). But then again, there are some VSTIs that will never sound/play ok because of how they are written. I have showcased such examples in the Introduction to MG3 videos when I was trying to explain the concept of tracking and latency. kzbin.info/aero/PL16hx1uHz4KGftYcNGQUdFDdaqyWrV3-O&si=fkYp8K820KRiEnhG Palm mute is of course not going to have the same effect as in real life. The software listens to incoming pitches for its analysis into MIDI and palm muting may affect the timbre but not necessarily the pitches of notes. The MGHEX is identical to the standard MG3 in almost every aspect, it has some extra MIDI Machines, but nothing more than that. The thing it does is allow for Six audio streams (rather than one) to be converted into MIDI/MPE. So any instrument loading process is exactly identical.

[@aris9125]

@@lofileif thank you! what gear do i need to make use of the Midi Guitar 3 HEX option? sounds expensive buying the Boss pedals you've demoed, do i need those or just an HEX pickup? What could be the best and cheapest way to make advantage of the Midi Guitar HEX part? sorry...i'm trying to understand this complex but amazing software.

[@lofileif]

Well, the HEX tracker was primarily developed ( I believe) for all of us who already had invested heavily in this kind of gear. So it will of course be rather expensive to start from scratch. But what you need is a guitar with some kind of divided pickup and a 13-pin output (GK2/3/5 , a Roland GK-Kit-GT3 or Graph Tech Ghost Hexpander Preamp Kit for instance. After that, you need a way to send the six separate streams of audio to the computer. And that is where you choose either a Roland pedal (GP10, GM800, SY1000) or a breakout box/cable solution together with a multichannel audio interface. I don't have any myself but look at separate-strings for an example: www.separate-strings.co.uk/breakout%20cables%20and%20more.html Of course, all of this will be expensive to purchase right away, especially so as the HEXtrackerr is an additional purchase from MG3, so my recommendation is, of course, to start with MG3 and see how far it will take you. 👍

[@aris9125]

@@lofileif Thanks a lot!!

[@PeterHarket]

The tracking with HEX enabled sounds a lot better to me! Sounds more immediate.

[@sepic5407]

to me - too. This one mostly important up grade of MG. I don't believe - waiting for more 3 years

[@PeterHarket]

@@slidersson If you see at 1:46, I get the sensation that the tracking is not 100%. But if you look at 5:55 with the HEX, it is more in tune with that is actually played. That is my intuition. However, the latter case is a bass, which in nature is monophonic (even though that the example at 1:46 with the "regular" guitar is primarily played solo in the example), so that might have something to do with it - but my hunch is the better tracking from the HEX pickup.

[@lofileif]

I guess you have tried it for yourself @PeterHarket? Because I hardly feel anything. It is obviously going to be clearer, with the octaves triggering more consistently and the minor seconds and all that stuff, but in terms of latency and that type of immediacy I am struggling to hear a difference myself. 😀👍

[@PeterHarket]

@@lofileif No, only from your video - does the tracking have any implication when you play relatively complex jazz harmonies? Because with the regular MG3, sometime when I comp (usually a with a bossa nova pattern) over such chords, the tracking gets messed up and play the wrong bass note.

[@lofileif]

Yes, the difference is clearest with strumming and for complex harmonies. I should talk about harmonic clarity really, but it becomes so technical and high-browed. Either way, you should get no wrong bass notes with this since every string get its own mono analysis. Crosstalk would be the only thing I could imagine that would mess things up.

[@davidhart2836]

This is exciting news but I have so many questions. Aside, from string separation, how do the tracking and polyphony compare with the standard MG3 tracker? Is the difference big enough to make it worth buying a hex pickup setup? And if so, which hex pickup would you recommend? Thanks for all the great content, @LoFiLeif!

[@lofileif]

Clarity and consistency in polyphony are obviously the big improvements here. Enough to warrant getting a HEX PU setup? I can't answer that for you. It depends on what you are going to use it for. And also stuff like which hex PU to go for is practically impossible for me to answer. There are so much to consider. You can go for a piezo setup with very little modifications to your guitar. You probably get a warmer fuller sound, but also more low-frequency rumble. Or you can go with the plastic puck on your guitar and always have the possibility to get rid of it. But start with MG3 and how far it gets you in terms of results. It is a very marginal difference compared to the difference between MG3 and any other setup in general. But it all comes down to utility. If you are playing all the time every day it might be worth it?

[@erolsommer]

I've tried with hex and without. The polyphony with hex tracking is so much better.

[@lofileif]

There is a difference, yes. The HEX solution provide what I would argue is the best pitch-to-MIDI soluton to date. 😀👍

[@erolsommer]

@@lofileif I agree 100% and I've tried them all at great expense and countless hours of installation and tweaking. I play about 180 gigs a year on both bass and guitar and all my gig axes have 13 pin output. I've installed Various Piezos, Roland GKs, Cycfi and Ubertar pickups, I've made adapters for 13 pin to FTP. I've used GR-55, GP-10, GM-800, Axion100, Axion 50. V-Bass, VB-99, GI-20, Yamaha G-50, soft synths in iOS, MacOS and Win... Of all of these, MidiGuitar 3 beta has the most natural translation from fingers to synth. I only wish my ATG-1 had USB out so I could use it instead of the GP-10. The ATG-1 has the best acoustic models and the autotune feature can't be beat, plus it has 8 buttons on the floor that could send midi to MidiGuitar 3. My goal is to have the most portable and best tracking guitar floor board synth. Midiguitar 3 will be in my next rig!

[@stevek7961]

Thank you so much for all of your work on these videos. Should I be able to use my VG-99 to supply the separate string audio to MIDI Guitar 3, via USB? I have a MG licence, but not the HEX licence yet. I am assuming the trial system is active for this. I have tried to use it, but the software doesn't seem to be hearing my guitar (I just see "No HEX Input1"). Thanks for any help or advise that you may be able to offer.

[@lofileif]

Hi Steve, and thanks! The VG)99does NOT send out these 6 channels of AUDIO we need over USB, unfortunately. I would have loved to be able to use my own if possible. And yes the HEX license (which is another license for those that doesn't know) should work in trial mode just as the MG2 or MG3 did with the occasional interruption. I think that the supported units are the GP10, the GM800, and the SY1000 at this point. These are the ones that deliver these HexPu streams of AUDIO over USB. Without any of them you will get that "No HEX input" message.

[@stevek7961]

@@lofileif Thanks very much for that advice. It's disappointing, obviously. I would be interested to hear about any other hardware solutions that get the job done. I have a couple of old (but excellent!) Godin guitars with 13 pin hex outputs. It would be great to be able to use them with the MG3 HEX option. Thanks again.

[@lofileif]

Yes, I was thinking of mentioning this in my first answer, but here goes: There is (or will be?) the opportunity to use a breakout cable/breakout box instead of using any of the Roland units to use a Multichannel audio interface. How far along this is, if it has been tested and proven to work, I don't know yet. But it is by far the most attractive option to not have to rely on the mercy of Roland updates for every new OS. So to verify this, or just ask where in the development process this is, please check with the developer on the JamOrigin Forum: jamosapien.com

[@stevek7961]

@@lofileif Thank you. I have read through the relevant thread, and it all sounds very exciting, with lots of potential. I agree that the reliance on Roland is too tenuous, and better avoided if possible.

[@musicforever5194]

Thank you very much for your incredible videos about this amazing program. I have a question is it possible to play midi guitar 3 with 7 string guitar? Thank you!

[@lofileif]

Thanks a lot! Not at this point, I am afraid. It is still in beta, and we will have to see how much of the extended range it will cover. I tried my eight string on the new MIDI Bass 3 just to see, and it tracked all the way down, but there is still a lot to be done with cleaning up that MIDI. So you will have to wait a little before we know for sure. 🤷‍♂️

[@musicforever5194]

@@lofileif thank you very much for your immediate response! With bass 3 it could track all the 8 strings of your guitar? Even the high one? Thank you!

[@lofileif]

Yes, it tracks, but we are talking limitations on polyphonic bends and the quality of tracking isn’t close enough to the guitar side yet. 👍

[@EnricoDellAquila]

that's great! Any chance that it will be made compatible also with Fishman TriplePlay?

[@lofileif]

No, not unless the latest incarnation of FTP also transmit/send 6 channels of audio along in their USB-C interface. I have not heard anything about that.

[@dandelionboy7820]

I play bassa nova, flamanco, and math rock. I've been wanting to get into midi guitar for faster transcription for writing and composition. Kinda new to it besides using midi piano controllers. Maybe it could lead me to play with midi fx later on. If got MIDI for Guitar the tracking would have to be GOODt bc there's so much polyphany in what I play. I was thinking of getting a cheap used Godin Multiac nylon strings with the 13-pin midi. I liked the idea of 6 individual audio signals to track midi but the fact I had to ALSO buy into the dead platforms from Roland/Boss just to get midi signal left a bitter taste in my mouth. Honestly...if there was a way to bypass BOSS/Roland I'd still consider the Godin with this if I found one cheap enough. Maybe a a break out cable to usb if you knew of one to purchase?

[@lofileif]

Hi! There is no great solution for using MIDI Guitar to transcribe notes for composing purposes, in my view. Yet! Everything that has existed have been relying on us going in afterward and cleaning up, quantizing, and post-edit to the point of it almost feeling like a new composition. It hasn't had any advantages over step entry piano roll notation for me at least. Now that MG3 has got the HEX tracker alternative we can perhaps start looking at viable solutions, but we are not there yet and I have nothing to suggest here and now. Real-time recording with all the expression contained in the performance itself is of course the way I would go about it myself, but that is not for everyone. Bypassing Boss/Roland pedals is of course the goal for most of us too. The only commercial breakout box/cable solution available I know of (although I don't have it myself) is the Separate-strings solution: www.separate-strings.co.uk/breakout%20cables%20and%20more.html There are some discussions going on in the MIDI guitar forum too that might be of interest to you: jamosapien.com/t/lets-build-a-gk-3-break-out-cable/7892?u=lofileif

[@dandelionboy7820]

Well correct me if I'm wrong but for notation I was thinking if the midi was more or less spot on I could just use the midi data itself to transcribe to another 3rd party software albeit not in real time. So kinda like guitar->midi->notation where midi bridges the gap between the two. I think both both guitar pro and notation can transcribe midi data to staff and staff to midi data. I don't mind cleaning up the midi data a little bit. I don't mind not being able to transcribe in real time. I don't mind playing at a slightly slower bpm for accuracy...but to justify having the MG3 software it'd have to be pretty good tracking to start, ya know?

[@lofileif]

The new MGHexTracker will provide good enough tracking for transcribing notes. It is still a couple of things that need to be sorted out though. Most people want stuff like per-string-tuning and detuning for open-string tunings for instance? MGHEX is still in beta, and there are a lot of things that you might expect from it, that it doesn't do yet. And this is why I am saying that there is no great solution available. It will be though and it shouldn't have to take too long either.

[@agharta42]

Funny u guys release this same day as tripleplay connect express which I just ordered. I had the idea of using both to achieve even better accuracy. I also have a recovery ghost writer in my board for monophonic notes. It will be interesting to see how they all interact. The Roland stuff is proprietary to assert ownership over the market I presume. You are then limited to their sounds. All this development is awesome.

[@agharta42]

Perhaps today then the most accurate option with best latency is tripleay connect express+, mg3 hexaphonic as an interface for plugins etc. tracking may be sufficient without plugin though have to see after tripleplay arrives

[@lofileif]

It will be interesting to hear what you think, once you’ve had a chance to try these setups enough. 👍

[@sepic5407]

release 25 September 2024 : - tripleplay connect express (HW) - Tripleplay Utility (SW) - new firmWare (FW) support .1.5.40 only

[@lofileif]

@sepic5407 Yes! I am happy for you! 👍 Hope it is working great!

[@jimmortimore7359]

So in your opinion what tracks better into MG3? the hex pickup or the magnetic pickup?

[@lofileif]

The HEX will have a natural advantage when judging stuff like clarity. Octaves are sometimes smudged with the polyphonic tracking of the MG3, and that is the one thing I feel differ. The tracking speed is theoretically a thing that could be faster, but I can’t feel any difference.

[@Nobox-eg7qu]

With midi guitar 3 I can just use a regular guitar cable to trigger my virtual instruments? Is midi guitar 3 just the software that controls virtual instruments or does it use its own sound library?

[@lofileif]

Yes, with the regular version of MG3, you use your standard magnetic pickups on your regular electric guitar for the audio to be translated into MIDI. So, no need for a special cable in that case. This video was just an introduction to the HEX tracker which is an additional option in the regular MG3 which does require some sort of different solution though. MG3 does indeed come with a couple of sounds to get you started, but you can add free stuff the Surge XT synth (MPE) or Zebralette (also free) if you want some great synths to begin working with.

[@Nobox-eg7qu]

@ thank you. Is midi guitar 3 ready for purchasing or is it still being tested? I have the triple play but the dongle wireless set up is a little funky it looks like guitar midi 3 might be a better option.. I have pigments, native instruments and some other variations instruments… too many sounds really, would like to just get a nice acoustic piano sound that I can trigger with guitar… I really suck at keyboard .

[@lofileif]

It is not out of beta yet, but you can certainly buy or try it whenever you feel like it. Check the beta page for all the info on that. www.jamorigin.com/beta/

[@Jamman610]

I just saw the new Fishman hex pickup for 199.99 would that be good for this new midi3? Dumb question,so many variables. Plus I see not for IOS. Thanks for demonstrating.

[@lofileif]

No unfortunately , not as long as Fishman hasn’t included the 6 separate AUDIO streams to whatever they send/transmit.

[@Jamman610]

@@lofileif Thank you very much.

[@dandelionboy7820]

@lofileif I also like the idea of having multiple applications for different instruments like cello, violin, bass, ect. But why does each one have to be a seperate license? Can it not just be available under one? Will we have to purchase each liscence we intend to use? Can we not simply purchase the software get all liscences and be able to use it on like 2-4 computers? Like if ppl have a single Hex enabled guitar then would they have to purchase a license for their non-hex guitars as well?

[@dandelionboy7820]

If I was sure I'd only have to buy one liscence I'd buy it today even if it's in beta because I'd consider it an investment into the future

[@lofileif]

There has been this increase in conflating me with the developer of the software lately, which is very unfortunate. I am just a guy helping out with videos about the software. I have nothing to do with pricing strategies or any decisions concerning the software. If you have questions or wishes for its future development, please post on the MIDI Guitar Forum. jamosapien.com

[@dandelionboy7820]

​@@lofileifI appreciate the information, friend and the time to make the vids. Thanks alot. No hard feelings. Just was curious if you knew anything.

[@hakimmouna4154]

does it work with roland gr55 . and what are the settings to make it work with it ?

[@lofileif]

No, unfortunately! The only Roland units that send out the six audio streams from the Hex pickup over USB are the GP10, GM-800 and the SY-1000.

[@Meshuggah333]

Do you think it'll ever support extended range guitars? Having my 8 string fully MIDIfied would be a dream come true.

[@lofileif]

Don’t know, and I hate to guess. So we’ll have to wait and see. I have an RG 2228 waiting for me too, so I know how you feel. 🤔

[@Meshuggah333]

@@lofileif dang, that's one of the nicer 8 strings 👌fingers crossed then.

[@electrofuzz7396]

You can download the latest beta and choose BASS GUITAR as the Tracker, it will work with your guitar, it's in very early development, not really usable but it will give you a hint of what's coming and the current limitations.

[@MrGoggler]

Is there a timeline for the development? when will the beta phase possibly end?

[@lofileif]

There is no such timeline that I know of. You can choose to join at any stage. Now or later, it will be the same price. But I understand the appeal of a finished product over something being in beta too.

[@NACHOXVALLE]

This last chord deserves a whole video hahahahahahaa... I'll wait.

[@lofileif]

That chord belong to the previous video I did, on virtual electric guitars though! 👍

[@NACHOXVALLE]

@@lofileif Sounds terrifique!

[@luismartin9971]

Fantástico !!!. Ahora sé por qué me decías que no vendiera mi GP10 😅😅. Gracias 🫂

[@lofileif]

🤭🤝👍

[@stevethecavalry]

Will this work with the Fishman triple play wireless pickup?

[@lofileif]

No, I don't think so. It only transmits MIDI, if I am not mistaken? And you need to transmit six channels of audio for it to work with the MGHEX tracker.

[@stevethecavalry]

@@lofileif ahhhh yeah - totally understandable - keep up the awesome work

[@lofileif]

@stevethecavalry Thanks man. I’ll do my best! 👍

[@nealdavis9516]

This is almost too good.

[@lofileif]

You know, that is how I feel about all of this too. 😃👍

[@Don__clandestino]

Hello!Im testing it right now, is amazing, but I have a question, I keep hearing my guitar sound still mixed with the synth, how do i turn that guitar string sound off? The direct monitor button on my interface is off already..thanks!

[@lofileif]

So, are you using more than one chain? Every chain is forwarding the guitar audio until you have a instrument on them. Use the mixer faders to turn down any chain you are not using.

[@lofileif]

Starting with MIDI Guitar 3 - Things you need to know kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpCyhoGBma54aJI

[@Don__clandestino]

@@lofileif Solved it with that tip. Im sold as well, purchasing it right know..thanks!

[@xlilxillx]

i just bought a boss gp-10 after watching your video on it. Why would i want to use it with midi guitar 3 over just using the on board midi conversion? My experience with the migi guitar 3 beta has been very glitchy and unstable so far

[@lofileif]

If you don’t get better results with MGHEX with the GP10 than you do with the onboard GP10 MIDI conversion, you use what works for you. There should be very little glitchyness to the MG3 software generally, but it depends on how you set it up of course.

[@xlilxillx]

@@lofileif the string filtering is actually quite cool. Can’t wait to try it out thanks for the vids

[@PrMarioAlegria]

When windows version comes?

[@lofileif]

I thought It was out with the Mac version this morning, so I guess something needs fixing. So now I don't know. Keep updated on the beta page. 👍

[@lofileif]

There is a Windows version out now. Go to the beta Page and look under DOWNLOADS. JamOrigin have bundled all software in one package, free to download. www.jamorigin.com/beta/

[@jordon.melodiz426]

What if u do hex pickup into boss gm800 into midi guitar 2 then midi in back into boss gm800? I wonder if the tracking would be better😃

[@lofileif]

Yeah…no! The shortest way is the best one, also here. Latency, latency, latency. Plus, why would you want to go with MG2 now that MG3 is out?

[@jordon.melodiz426]

​@lofileif Ohh sorry I meant midi guitar 3😅. But it would be great to have the high quality sounds of the gm800 with mg3 improved tracking

[@lofileif]

@@jordon.melodiz426 Ok , so you want to use the SOUNDS in the gm800 but the MG3 HEX tracker? I don't know, can you play those sounds with a keyboard controller? If you can, there should be no problems setting up like that.

[@stormyandcold]

Ok, so, its now kinda like a software SY-1000, but, obviously you can use any vsti

[@lofileif]

Well, I bet you the SY-1000 doesn’t have the ability to assign modulators to (almost ) any parameters on the fly.

[@stormyandcold]

@@lofileif I've only recently bought my SY-1000 and haven't got too deep into it. I play guitar and use a GP10 for bass sound with external FS6 foot switches to control strings on/off, which allows me to play most songs in my band with some semblance of normal guitar while having bass at the same time. Midi guitar is a side interest of mine, but, has never been implemented into my live rig. The closest I got was using my GR55 for strings in a bluesy rock band a decade ago.

[@joebowbeer]

To send the GK1-6 audio outputs from SY-1000 to MG3, connect the 13-pin cable from your guitar into the SY-1000 and connect USB from SY-1000 to Mac. See Audio Routing settings in SY-1000 reference manual.

[@agharta42]

I guess the really question then is how does this compare to fishmans new software for connect express??

[@lofileif]

You tell me! I don’t have Fishman stuff.

[@agharta42]

@@lofileif might be a good idea for testing. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts