Possible Hydro Power Solutions for our Off Grid Cabin? A BIG THANKS TO YOU!!

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[@glennlockey1012]

Great update video. 2 recommendations that I'd make. 1, use a shaped outflow end to force all the water in the flume downwards to make sure it all makes contact with the wheel, shaping the outflow so that it only allows through the maximum amount of water that the wheel can handle without overshot splash and 2. You need to keep water in the wheel for longer around the rotation so by adding strips angled upwards, it will catch more water from the flume and keep it in the wheel longer giving the wheel more rotational force. best of luck and look forward to seeing more videos showing the tweets that you make as you fine tune your wheel.

[@carsonhunt4642]

Wouldn’t making it a simple pitch back and wheel turning opposite direction be more efficient?

[@ScottGlisson74]

That 10" pipe reduced down to a 6" would power a turbine easy!

[@codysexton2195]

AC all the way to the house is gonna be about the only way its gonna work over that distance.

[@jamess1787]

I would beg to differ. Depends on his anticipated load. I've got 60W at 54v running over 24awg wired about 250ft without issue. Definitely couldn't run any major appliances on that. With 10awg at 220ft at 50vdc: he's only losing 5v with 10A draw (500W).

[@codysexton2195]

@@jamess1787 to each there own i disagree.

[@jamess1787]

AC is the right design choice, but has a cost now that the systems been installed. I'm sure his system will operate just fine once he is able to fix a lot of the other issues. This is a minor (but possibly costly fix). [Edit: also 220ft isn't long distance transmission.]

[@sean123456789]

@@jamess1787 also you will loose quite bit in conversion. You are correct, 220ft is not long when compare the miles of power lines across world. AC is ideal because of the zero cross. But a high voltage DC system can transmit a lot of power at lower current.

[@gravelydon7072]

@@sean123456789 Problem is, you really need a high Voltage DC for any distances. 50VDC is not it. With his six wires, running wild AC to the house would be better. Then rectify it. Then adjust it for the Voltage you need in a charge controller. 2000 Watts at 50VDC is 40Amps. He is getting nowhere near that at the house and 6 #10 wires, assuming 2 conductors for each leg ( +, -, and ground ) should be able to carry it. It will lose about 20% of the voltage from the wheel to the house.

[@TheOFF-GRIDiot]

Hi guys. Just let me say, I never ever log in to youtube, but your video pushed me over the top! I have to toss in my 2 cents! I've read all the comments about the wheel, and let me just say, that wheel is absolutely perfect! It's got tons of potential power in that spin, I mean it's really obvious, the weighted momentum is going to give you a LOT of power, easily over 500 watts, likely over 1000. Maybe you could add another 6-10 inches to your water gate over the wheel, but really, i think it makes enough mechanical energy already. I can't stress enough how impressed I am with the energy coming from that wheel. Don't let anyone tell you it's the wheel's fault! All you have to do is change out that silly generator and install an AC generator instead (and slap a little bridge rectifier on the wall next to charge controller where it gets turned into DC power, then you only need 2 short heavy gauge wires to your controller from the rectifier..... AC power can travel much much further than DC without loses, and you can use regular household wiring that will take 120v and 15-20 amps without issue, which is what I assume you already have underground there. Use the same system that windmills use. That's why most of the wind gennies are AC, the wiring is usually very far from charging station. I promise, you will see massive increases. Your wheel is beautiful and the dam is crafty! Remember: 1. Swap that 24v generator for an AC version. 2. Run it to an AC/DC bridge rectifier in your shed on that wall with all your other stuff. (rectifiers are super simple and cheap) 3. Run heavy gauge cables from rectifier to charge controller. (even though it's only a foot or two, it's DC power now, use fat cables here !) 4. Enjoy your new free power. P.S. For gear ratios on pullies, use whatever gets you closest to 120 volts, or the max power/watts (volts x amps) rating for the wire between the wheel and the house. I would start with a smallest pully you can find for the generator and the biggest one you can find for the water wheel. If it's too much power and exceeds the wire's rating, control it by restricting the water flow. I am convinced you are only going to be limited by the wire you installed underground between the dam and the house....that wheel might make more power than the cable's rating!

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks for the input! I’ll hopefully give this a shot in the coming months.

[@KrisHarbour]

Its really a shame i cant come and do a survey. I am 100% sure that there is a small hydro electric system there. But some accurate measurements of head and flow over a period of time need to be taken in order to decide if a low head turbine would be worth while or is it would make more sense to get the wheel working better. The wheel will never be efficient though. Even if you make the best waterwheel in the world it will not come close to the performance of a turbine. If you could set up a water level or borrow a laser and find out exactly what the elevation is from the water level to the pipe that would be a very big help to anyone advising. At the 150gpm flow you stated you have at the moment you would get approximately 100w at your batteries if you had a low head turbine installed. It wont ever be a big system that is for sure, but there is power there to be had. But the system needs to be very efficient to really be worthwhile. From what i can see a low head turbine on that pipe would be the way to go. Most likely a small kaplan turbine, That way you can keep the wheel in place and it will just run as the overflow.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks again for your input! I plan on figuring things out in the next few months. We are currently in a cold snap with 10” of snow and the waterwheel is frozen. I did get solar panels delivered last week so I’ll have that too.

[@nanouekonzo5581]

Hi Kris, good to see you here.

[@o_ra1572]

Would kaplan work with that slow waterflow? How about tighten the 6" pipe to 1 or 2 inch pipe at the end and use peltonwheel?

[@enginerd1776]

I threw this in another video, but just to make sure somebody who has his ear gets it- the fill line for his future pond would be a great start to a small turbine, utilizes his current reservoir and from the very few shots I have seen there's more available drop on that 6 inch discharge.

[@kletusbobby7029]

YES your 2000w generator is TOO BIG. As Kris, I and others said on your last video, your electrical system is far too big. I would start with testing the wire going to the cabin to ensure they are not broken of shorted together Then I would replace the enormous generator with a 500w PMA permanent magnet alternater, set up to produce high voltage that will be transmitted to the cabin where it will be rectified and reduced to usable voltage levels.

[@bwcok7947]

Can't wait to see you put some trout in the pond! Your slice of heaven!

[@thefurrylittleotter3460]

Trout need a LOT of water flow or they die. I don’t think he has enough.

[@bwcok7947]

@@thefurrylittleotter3460 the colder the water the more the oxygen it can hold + a solar aerator will handle that size of a pond easily.

[@thefurrylittleotter3460]

@@bwcok7947 I could name a LOT of fish that wouldn’t require anything😉 trout are needy

[@henricagven2874]

charge a battery at the wheel and let it work the power up to the house were you can work the rest out with whats coming out as dc🙃 maybe 😁 fun and good stuff, thank you

[@TixNBurrsRanch]

I did small hydropower design (1 Mw to 40 Mw) for five years in the 1980s. Three years ago, I went off-grid on 55 acres of headwaters land and added a 300w microhydro to a new 2kw solar/10kWh LFP battery system. The PowerSpout (NZ) turgo hydro below a stockpond uses 120 gpm and 28 feet gross head. It perfectly complements the solar after I added 23kwh of batteries for $9000. I'm now helping a neighbor develop his 200kw hydro using an Energy Systems & Design (NB) Watter Buddy and 120 feet gross head through 800 feet of 2-inch pvc. My recommendations: 1) Do a solar/hydro system. They DO work on ephemeral streams. 2) Look very hard at application of the PowerSpout LH genset at your dam, using their online advanced calculators. 3) Compare that option with developing the drop from your spring to the farthest downhill point of your property using that 6" pipe and a PowerSpout TRG genset.

[@newinsharpsville]

You should talk to engineer 775 on KZbin this is what he does for a living

[@akdisney]

Splice may lose volts on way is done and moisture can get to copper wire.

[@VeggiePower303]

I don't think your belts are slipping, but a chain and sprocket set has less friction and loses. The downside it that you have to keep them greased well and should not rain on it. So what you have is pretty good. Look into E-Bike Hub-Motors/generators!!! They run on very slow RPMs so you don't need so many belt and pulies. It's more efficient that way. They generate AC at 48 to 120 Volts. You have to take the AC up to the house and then use the E-Bike controller to rectify it and charge your batteries. Could save some money this way and your system will be expendable, you can add hub-motors at any time.

[@mustafababdullah2485]

Go to any pipefitters pipe flow chart to find out what fall and head pressures are and the math is done on a chart. So you can understand instead of guessing. Fall changes with pressure!

[@henryowens3611]

Yep, Brian Hopkins has got it, ac into rectifier, worth trying 6 wires into 2 rectifiers before spending on ac motor ! to main switches, brake etc.. into 200v mppt charger controller, unless you build a dc battery hut next too water wheel ! Rubber belts will need a spring tensioners. Land and house is a good youtube video about hydro how he extends his 6 inch lower pipe to create more watts by siphoning it out of their lake.

[@michaelscales9013]

Definitely need to run ac over that distance

[@medge734]

Someone probably already linked you this equation, but for a hydro system, power=flow rate*head*gravity*water density. gravity and density are constant at 9.81 m/s^2 and 1 kg/m^3. The head is where the water leaves the flume to the point where it contacts the wheel. This distance is the distance that the water gets acted on by gravity. If the Head is 1 ft (~1/3m), your flow has to be 5.1 m^3/s; If the Head is 3 feet (~1m), your flow only has to be 1.7 m^3/s. Love the videos by the way. I am about to graduate with my EE degree and thinking about making my parents a hydro generator behind their house to power their shed and greenhouse.

[@medge734]

Also AC has a fraction of power lose over distance compared to DC. Real world example is the power lines all over the place are in single or 3-phase AC power.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks 😊

[@jhinnant58]

I’m an engineer. So, yes, go AC to as close to your equipment in the house as possible before your rectifier. Higher voltages will allow you to use smaller wiring. Most car alternators have the rectifier built-in, but some can be modified. Ask an old-timer at a local alternator rebuild shop. You’ll also need DC source to excite it or use a permanent magnet alternator. There is an 2KW alternator on Amazon, but I’m not sure of the torque required in your application . (Ista Breeze 2 KW 48V Permanent Magnet Generator, Savonius, Wind Generator, Wind Power (2 KW 48V Permanent)) And...consider a deflector above the output to help keep the water on the wheel during high water flow. It appeared to overshoot it.

[@create-this]

And you could also direct a pipe down to the front = less water ,high flow and more drop in.and yes look at cc , rectified with the ac motor , possibly with a better n.m. torque rating .it won't be to much

[@conorcleary2100]

This type of stuff as a architectural technologies is great when I want to design and detail houses I want to bring this type of ideas in housing estates and single build home...

[@randyhiggins9635]

Maybe take the water tube to fill the pond and reduce the diameter of the tube several times by the time it gets to the pond area and put the hydro generator at the end of it where the pressure will be greater....but the distance to the house is another factor...

[@randyhiggins9635]

I researched a little and there are examples on youtube for doing what your doing...with less flow...fyi

[@jmackman]

You can fix your water wheel splash efficiency buy putting the water drop almost to the front perpendicular of the outside diameter of the wheel. then build a drop down chute that will drop directly down into the paddles with all sides of the drop down chute sealed with conformance of the wheel itself. the wheel will need to be turned so that the spacing of the wheel and the dropdown chute is within 1/8" to minimize water spillage. If you need a drawing let me know.

[@JohnDoe-ib3hr]

Honestly just try adding water harvesting swales and ponds/mini-wetlands on as much of the higher sections of your property as you can, you'll dramatically increase the flow from your springs and ensure that flow all summer when the rain slows down. I can't say anything on the electricity generation side of things but hydrology/ecology is my thing, adding water harvesting high up will passively hydrate your entire property.

[@tylerbarrett6652]

Don''t give up.... this WILL work once you work it out.

[@EastLondonKiwi]

Hi great to see you are learning to trouble shoot your power challenge, and awesome to see you have connected with Kris, and I see Joe Malovich is replying to your issue. Both of these guys have done a lot to understand the nuances of generating power from small water sources. My two cents come from being trained Telecommunications rigger, so after years on the road I have done a lot of fault finding in my time. Here is the basic process. 1. Do not test the entire system start with each component individually first and add on a new item only after the previous items in the run are producing know outputs. Start at from one end and work logically to the other, do not jump about. In this case that should be your raw power source the water wheel. You need a certain amount of mechanical power and torque from that (Kris and Joe will have great advice on what tests you can do to establish the power of your wheel, and possibly enhancements to improve it). Next I would verify your DC motor output at the water wheel location. Spin that without the cable to the house connected, use a drill or petrol engine to spin it up to recommend rotation, and measure the voltages and Amps it is producing (that will tell you its fine and if its producing what the manufacture states it will - There should be a datasheet available online that states what these number are). First freewheeling (no load) then with a load (anything that you can wire in that will eat the power it produces, Again refer to Joe and Kris re this as they have done a lot of this type of testing) Next I would look at your pulleys and gearing at the water wheel, changing those if necessary to match your Wheel torque and DC motor requirements (including load), don't add in a new system like chains until you know belt slippage is an issue (As in my opinion what you need between the water wheel and DC motor is a constant or acceptable torque to DC output). Only once you have the water wheel end working and producing a known output would I move to the next step which is adding in your cable run to the house. 2 Add in one item at a time and recheck your outputs (you'll have two, DC motor under load, and DC motor with no load ), these should be a constant and if they are not you'll know if each newly added item causes a loss. And whether that loss is acceptable or not for you charge controller to accept (as that will have known values of input you need to produce, again read the documentation to get these numbers). For example and issue with your cable. if you have good power at the wheel end and then you connect 200 meters of wire, and the power output drops through the floor. Then you have two options, up the size of you cable gauge to reduce power loss over distance, or move your charge controller and batteries closer to your water wheel (which reduces the distance from source to use). Test either side of the splice in the cable run, as each joint or addition connection in a run will add in a loss, how big of a loss depends on the joint and gauge of the components used, combined with power being transferred via the run. Only after you have good and expected power output at the house would I start adding in the Charge controller and other components. The principal is that if your system is outputting an expected value and then you add in a new item to the run and your output drops through the floor, then the issue is with the new item. 3. Don't guess, only once you understand where your issue is, is when you can start making decision of how to fix it. 4. keep it simple stupid. reduce the complexity of your system, and only add in new advanced features that are matched appropriately to your requirements. Over complicating a system before you understand it is the fastest way to cause yourself issues. Eg a simple circuit is a 9v battery and a bulb, add in a switch only after you confirm the light turns on when the bulb is directly pressed on the battery, then a dimmer only once a switch works, etc.... In my view you need to establish the following to understand if you have sized your system correctly, 1. T power at source (how much water pressure do I have at the dam). 2. The torque/power of the waterwheel underload, The gearing (what reductions do I need to make to match the Wheel power I have to the motor RPM I need with the motor under load). What is the power loss of the cable run (So how much power do I need to produce to over come that, or is a short run better eg move your batteries), what is the correct components I need to charge the battery bank I have sized. Each of these questions is simple maths. Solve each in turn and you will overcome your challenge. I look forward to watching you battle with this issue and will celebrate with you when you conquer it.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thank you

[@roterakaten636]

There is something called a drop flume. And what is does it it drops water straight out the bottom of the flume for the water. They where developed for the wheel revolution in england. Basically it's your normal flume with a stop at one end that is your exit and a big hole that allows water to do a shear drop vs a slow drop. It would probably be more efficient and you would only have to create an extension for the flume.

[@lvypaul_ro]

Hi, I tried to find the video where you explain the issues but I could not find it. Second, please excuse my English. First observation: The wheel that you are using is based on water weight and not on water speed. The idea that sits behind this wheel is that you fill the bucket at the top (or a little bit in advance so that when it reaches the top is filled) and when the bucket reaches 90 degree the gravity gives you the highest momentum(of course the momentum sums for all the angles of the wheel but with different ratio as the gravity force is closer to the axle of rotation) .For this reason is pretty important that at 90 degree of rotation (and a bit after it) the water that was filled on the top is still in the wheel and for this reason the shape of the bucket is important. I saw that the bottom of the buckets are in an angle but I am not sure if they have a cap at the end to not let water escape at the 90 degree position. Second one: You need that the wheel spins so low that buckets are filled almost to spill the water to the next one to obtain the maximum power. Of course that changes by the volume of your water flow. Third one: So, the wheel gives high momentum (high torque) but low rpm, your generator needs high rpm. For that I saw that you use pulleys and belts, in my opinion you need a gear box as that has less friction than belts but until you want to optimize your system that is not so important. First step is to determine the wheel speed (rpm) when the buckets are full at your lowest water ratio and to check the the minimum rpm for your generator where is starting to generate power. By this you can establish the minimum gear(pulley) ratio. Because of the high torque the axle and the pulley that sits on that axle of the wheel have to be strong in that area otherwise will break. The power is rpm x torque, and it is constant in all the mechanical parts so for example on the second stage of the rotation you will have high rpm and less momentum so the axle that handles that can be thinner. Now it is time to talk about generator matching with your wheel. It does not matter! As long as you hit the rpm for starting it and have enough power in the wheel to go above the frictional losses. The trick sits in the power control. You need to request just enough power from it so that the wheel still spins with buckets full. If you request too much power the buckets will spillover and the wheel will stop, if you request too little power the wheel will spin too fast and not fill the buckets. There are a lot of things in my mind that may help you but this is already a too long comment :)

[@SolarAddict06]

Yeah...best idea is to build a shed..beside the generator...and run ac wire going to the cabin.

[@barkeepermo2732]

Could always change the flume to a pitchback design to force the water to work twice. Though it'll reverse rotation.

[@barkeepermo2732]

I'll be doing this in a very low head area. If I can't get enough I'll try for a breast shot across an 8' creek

[@FamilyFulfillmentProject]

We love your off grid life! So creative 👏

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks! Y’all need to come stay in it someday and unplug!!

[@FamilyFulfillmentProject]

@@LoftisPartyofSix Yes we do! We should also all meet up and have our kiddos play. 👏

[@Triggerfish70]

Set up solar to provide power during daylight. Use excess solar to run a water pump that pumps water up the hill to the high pond. Before sunset an automated gate/valve opens and powers a turbine generator to supply power over night. No batteries, or fewer batteries needed. The pumped high pond will be your battery. A voltage output drop or increase from the panels could trigger the valve to open or close respectively.

[@jsteele42378]

I will try to go a little further on this. Take the dc output to a charge controller. Set your battery up for two different banks or strings. Batteries usually are setup 6 ,12,24, or 48 vdc. take one string and setup the other string the same way. Parallel one string say 24vdc to the other string being 24VDC. Now with the two different strings paralleled together you still have 24VDC but a lot more current. These batteries all should be deep cycle batteries only. Build an outside building near the generator so that the generator dc voltage/current will not have far to travel. The charge controller will now take the generator voltage to the two stings batteries and will store dc power according to the individual battery strings example 6,12,24,or 48 volts dc. Now find a inverter for the amount of power your house will be needing. Make sure that the inverters can be paralleled to others so that if more power is needed then it is as easy as adding another inverter. WoW I hope I got this right going off the top of my head. So I hope it helps I can explain easer in person or one phone. I'm not to good at typing lol. I could say a lot more but I want now run the AC voltage from your inverter to your house electrical box as input AC voltage. Yes I can answer more questions that you will be needing.

[@darrenionoff5399]

Keep at it, you have enough flow to provide plenty of power and if coupled with solar you would have surplus.

[@Monuments_to_Good_Intentions]

Been waiting for a good update on this project. Took me 3 months after to see it

[@Samael_Monasteriis]

Turbines are a no-go for this situation, to get the fall you need you'll have to run cables even further back to the cabin. The water wheel can work, even if it is only 50% efficient. A low-rpm high wattage AC motor to send power to a battery shed roughly half the distance to the cabin will work. The current distance is too far, especially for a 2000w DC motor (don't try smaller ones, they won't work). Your wheel has more water volume (more torque) it should be able to handle a motor 4000w and even higher than that to get the power you need from the 50% efficiency. The best solution is to build a small version of the 'main power grid' capacitors. You could use actual capacitors, but you can achieve a very similar result by shifting the power bank to a small shed close to half-way between the wheel & house.

[@AYOGAgriVenture]

This is good invention

[@loganbaileysfunwithtrains606]

What about a wind turbine on that hill, wind and solar until you get a hydro system working then use wind as a backup for when there’s a dry spell or a cloudy day

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

1:20 ratio at 3 phase alternator. You can run 3 phase through extension cord to rectifier then it will be dc. The Wheel should hold 10 gallons 88lbs to turn big 1hp alternator. Slow down force at end by making a shut. You need to gearing to match your generator/alternator. I need a low rpm 3 phase alternator for my water wheel. I have one 16v maxwell super capacitor for now, but charges fully in 3 minutes instead of hours with lithium batteries.

[@ludvigtande1236]

I think the whole set up is great. Trouble shooting the system with an electrical engineer will solve your problem.

[@christopherlindgren1185]

Reduce the 6" pipe to 2" and use a turbine, and use larger wire overhead, not inthe ground

[@claytonwason3488]

Use the water wheel to pump water up to that and use gravity to feed the turbine back into the system. Just one big clothes loop, you'd have to build another turbine, You know, make the water from 20 feet. Go right back into your dam.

[@5kram]

3ph 6 wires could be so you could wire the PMG in star or delta configuration and change the voltage I looked in the description to see if you had listed the PMG. You need info as to how to wire it into the unit. I think your water wheel should work OK for generation. The water wheel maybe put a small return block on the edge of the blade to hold some water in the wheel on the down direction and drain on the up rotation.

[@minnievenkat]

how about shortening the flume and making it a backshot wheel?

[@jbx907]

yeah move your battery to a smaller shed near the generator, at that distance 24volts is not going to cut it, that s why cars have such large wires, at least your 10 3 wires can carry efficient power when 110v or 220v, at least your power system is far from home and outdoors safer. good job

[@cerberus1364]

extend the water canal that you have on top of water wheel about 2in you might get a little bit more speed out of it if you use the gravity of water actually hitting the will as well as the weight of the water traditional water wheels don't have the water supply that supplies the wheel that far back

[@verniecarpenter2406]

First question first do you have enough water to turn your wheel all yr long? 24 hours a day? In the dry season all your water needs to be going down to the water wheel!!!!

[@gabrielrivas5459]

If you build it they will come if you build it they will come

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

You have a dual 3 phase AC alternator at the wheel, It sends 3 phase AC up to the rectifiers on the Missouri Wind and Solar panel in the power room that then converts them to DC and combines them in Parallel. In a nutshell you have 1000 watt Alternators in parallel. What I would do (And I work for Midnite so this has come up a couple dozen times) is put the 2 alternators in series so the voltage will double before the Classic. This is going to give you closer to 100 volts open circuit. Now you need to set the classic up properly for the hydro wheel. I would start with Hydro mode and set a minimum MPPT voltage of say 75 volts to start. Let it sweep and see if it seems to work well or if it goes to 75 volts and sets there. Hydro mode will not run the wheel down to 24v and stall it on the Classic it is smart enough to know as it goes by the Max power Point to back off and let the voltage go back up to the Max power point. In a nut shell how it works: 1- Classic will start with input voltage at open circuit say close to 100v if you put those stators in series 2- It will start bringing the input voltage down and monitor the output amperage 3- It will find the maximum output amperage and hold the input voltage at that voltage 4- It will repeat#2 and 3 as needed but it will not go all the way to the open circuit unloaded voltage I see a few comments on 2000 watts at 24 volts but that is not the case, In your case you have a 3 phase AC alternator rated at 1000 watts wired on #10 wire for ~230ft if I recall, Then you have a second one in Parallel. Just guessing based on the first video but you are running around 35 volts AC at the wheel. If you where truly running at 2000 watts out of the wheel you would have a 11% voltage drop but lets assume you will run around 1000 watts out of the wheel so you will be around a 5% voltage drop. Still a little high but not the end of the world. I think you will see more like 4-500 watts out of it under most cases so well under 3% voltage drop. I would suggest you get a volt meter and measure the unloaded AC voltage out of the water wheel with it running with the gate open and see what you have, I suspect you will find it to be around 40-45v and then I would suggest you wire the two DC outputs of the rectifiers in series and set the Classic up. I suspect that will result in results you will like. (Also if needed we can send one of our guys over to assist he is close by and is very familiar with the particular equipment you have.) Feel Free to give me a shout if you would like to get deeper into this 360-403-7207 Ext 151

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Your the man!! I’m taking a screenshot of this and your contact info to give you a call. Thanks 😊

[@HandiHackin]

@@LoftisPartyofSix I was just going to suggest you get the controller folks in the loop. As I remember that controller has a lot of programmable settings to match different set ups. Over all, until you have your meter and can give me (us) some numbers, the general advice on increasing your efficiency mechanically is all that you should glean from us. I realize that most of your viewers don't understand that in the ozarks moving, resizing, or re-designing a water wheel and pond might require blasting. I look forward to your next update. Subscribed!

[@daviddavids2884]

at 7:07, during such evaluation, remember to measure amps, via short through an ammeter. then, measure voltage, at the Same Reduced rpms. then you will actually know something. you could just put it all back together. but, connect only one of the pma's stator phases. cuz this has ALL BEEN AN EXERCISE. 29 watts, Before losses!!

[@PalfraDK]

You should be getting some power out of this - but maybe it's just not enough compared to your consumption. I think you should try to get an engineer or someone electric savvy out there and just measure right at the generator how much power it's producing when the system is going full spin - e.g. plug some appropriate sized resistors on it and measure voltage+current. If it's producing like you expect, maybe there is just a problem with your setup in the cabin or the transport through the cables to the cabin... It's about narrowing down where the issue is. If I were anywhere near you I'd love to come experiment with this thing myself just because its such a cool concept with free energy in your back yard omg! Unfortunately I'm in europe but maybe you can find someone closer by who would also like to have a look for free :)

[@paulsnary]

Hi Michael, do you have more information about the PMG? I have done a little digging but yet to find a datasheet which make analysis a lot more difficult. Love the hydro project videos .

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Not yet

[@jbx907]

yes it would work on that pipe, coz turbines use small jets, the problem really is it father away from your building, if only that was at a higher point from the building

[@jefferycundiff3804]

Your flume could easily be modified to dump at the front of the wheel. If you are interested i could draw up a small diagram. Just let me know. What your doing is great and inspiring.

[@northfielder1789]

just make sure the belt is tight enough on your generator pulley

[@robertedwards3147]

It looks like volt drop is a real problem I would move your batteries close to the generator and supply ac at 2phase220vac to the house up the batteries as needed for more load you could do hot water storage and of course you will tune the wheel for more power less water etc

[@danyoungs4061]

Ram pump idea will not work , it will only pump a tiny portion of of the water up hill.

[@jamess1787]

How about 1000 ram pumps? :D. That would be hella noisey. Hah

[@johnandersson]

You cannot send DC that far this way without MASSIVE losses. Move all the stuff from your storage to a small box by the water wheel and transform it to AC before sending it to the house. Complete with a few solar panels and you should be ok. //Electrical&Turbine Engineer

[@alankawaratani1677]

Where is the solar panel wire come in at? that big box say High volt may be all have the wire from the solar panel and the waterwheel than to Midnight. I think i have it ! If Midnight only thing charging the battery you may get flow back flow of power to waterwheel PMG and slow it down. The fix is have another mpp controller Midnight can take 2000 watt or 200 watts PMG 60 volts at 50 amps. The back feed of power is making PMG into a motor. Light bulb turn on over my head. wire second Midnight to the battery. take the wire from the breaker (with light ) box and wire to second Midnight than to battery

[@richardd9863]

I think better don't rely on one way to produce electricity if you have sunny place invest on solar maybe rotative ? Could maximise daily production ? and improve hydro system maybe you have spot for wind ? Thank you to share the failure in your system it could be helpfull for others ! 🙏

[@alankawaratani1677]

ok with first midnight you can add more solar panel to it

[@alankawaratani1677]

Hope you did the testing and you need post finding

[@markmacduff4630]

Get a Japanese turbine low speed 6 or 8 inches. Keep the art take it . Move the gate forward make two screws of the gate. Check it out . Look at the video, it's made by ele Eng in Japan it's 3ft long it makes 24 ft.

[@aaronkuennen1152]

Have you tested to see if your having belt slipping

[@monkeymanwasd1239]

I recomend pelton wheels

[@everettplummer9725]

Line loss is why Tesla won the Current War. Low voltage, high amperage, DC would heat up the length of wire, increasing the resistance. High voltage AC, can travel greater distance, and a transformer can increase the voltage, anywhere along the line. Solar, wind, or hydroelectric, it's best to convert to AC, as close as possible. Modify the wheel by increasing your holding capacity. Wider wheels naturally can hold more, but front lips can keep more water in the wheel longer. Good luck with the chain idea. Keep everything well lubed.

[@B011.]

I’m going to assume you have 13,000 gallons of water in the reservoir which weighs 108,408 pounds you should have enough pressure to use a turbine

[@alankawaratani1677]

auto Alternator need 1000 RPM to work and not easy to find 24 volts.

[@MrJeep75]

A real small wheel on the generator

[@jessejames586]

Why not just go solar? You have a nice open field.

[@aquual1462]

Dig to get elevation

[@eldstgilmorbarboydodellatb4413]

💚🤘🏿

[@trentgay3437]

If you want to get wild extended the flume past the current wheel with a "valve" to the current wheel. make the flume have an overflow to a second larger wheel muahahaha. Bigger wheel more torque more power.

[@Insert-name-here00]

Change your gear ratios.

[@jeironamobey8136]

Hang the wires from the trees

[@jsteele42378]

PSSSS if output of the generator is 360 degree sinewave which I'm sure it is, you could change the phase of the sinewave to either lag or lead the other generators. This would take quite a research of the gen, but you could have somewhat of a two phase output AC Voltage. This is called 2 phase and the output voltage in one generator would be the max out positive out put voltage to the other generators negative output voltage. Thus AC voltage would be somewhat a lot higher. I better stop now. Two phase voltage is kind of what you get to power you hot water heater. It is aprox 110 or using different wires like the 2 hot wires you get 240VAC. OK now time to stop . Sorry I just get these things in my head to say something else. yeal I just saw your mid night charge controller, but you will not get this generator DC voltage up to the charge controller, if you do it will not be anything close to what you really need. I like Chris's statement as well. Just watch the power amount remember Current X Voltage = Power or Wattage. later Ok recap move batteries , charge controller, and inverter close to generator or for later generators. Use proper wires going from generator to charge controllers. Hook inverter to battery bank. You have now thinking 6 batteries. Purchase two more to set up battery bank with 4 being in each bank thus 8 batteries would equal 4 batteries in each bank = 2 banks that you now parallel bank 1 to bank 2 and the output voltage would the same 24 volts, but the current would be almost off the chart. The type of batteries you could pull the banks down to 0 volts and not hurt the batteries, but I would check with the manufacture with pull down to what voltage. With standard wet cells they should charge up to the supply voltage appro 13.6 VDC and if you pull them down to 12.2 VDC this is 60% of the batteries output. Sound stupid I know but that is what it is lol. The inverter will change the output voltage to 110 VAC or 240AC Voltage depends on what inverter you choose. Run this AC Voltage to power you house !

[@viuvenitlalumina]

it is like a bicycle .... depends how you design it. you could have too much power.

[@DiaryofaFamily]

Hey Michael. Has someone suggested converting to AC to travel the longer distance and then converting it DC at your cabin? I guess I’m thinking more in a RV mindset so I’m not sure if it’ll work. Just throwing it out there. -Garrett

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Yes that’s what the majority of people are saying. Thank you

[@DiaryofaFamily]

@@LoftisPartyofSix I figured. As a RV tech that’s what I’m familiar with. Glad you are getting so much input from the off grid type.

[@rickmelto6750]

Sorry 3/2 or 3/4 .just for ground

[@ricktomlin5529]

You could put one of these alongside you waterwheel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGGxiaNuo7pod7s Your waterwheel would then run as decoration. You could have numerous of these turbines running from one flume generating more than enough power for your cabin. You could add wind turbines alongside the solar panels like the iSTA breeze Windsafe i-2000w (I have no affiliation to this company but I’m going to use them in my setup in the next month)

[@hannajoh12]

DC needs stranded wire not solid wire. also dc running too far.

[@solexxx8588]

With the water flow and fall you have I can't see getting more than a few hundred watts of 24/7/365 power. I think your generator is oversized. It would be better to have 250 watts X 24 hrs and add some solar to keep your batteries charged. Invert the wild AC to 120AC at the water wheel and use the existing wires doubled up to the house. You can use a steel job box to house the inverter so you don't have to build a shed. Add a 1000 watt wind turbine if you have the wind available.

[@davidjondoh8671]

Find an engineer that would be interested in a "working" vacation. Have them get your power system working while vacationing at your place free in exchange for the work.

[@florihae]

I would LOVE that. Systems like that are my passion. Spending a week there and work on it for free would be amazing!!!

[@kennethcase1941]

1. Load your wheel more with two generators. Increase the water supply. 2. Convert your low voltage DC at the generator to AC and transmit the AC 220 feet to the house. 3. The higher the voltage the less loss you will have. The less current thru the wire the less loss of power. 4. Calculate using ohm's law.

[@everettplummer9725]

I was trained by Siemens, back in the eighties. They moved their hydroelectric generator plant, down to Palmetto Florida. I also worked in motor and tool repair. I suggest a governor on any wheel. And a heavy duty industrial 3phase regulated generator. We used to get quite a few MG sets in the shop. DC, two phase, three phase, high frequency too. Some got scrapped, others didn't get picked up. So they laid around until someone was interested in buying used rebuilt. When we rewound them, they were a little extra heavy duty, new bearings, and paint, actually better than new. Probably get for the price of saving laying cables for DC.

[@calebheddy1447]

The power loss on dc would be huge on a 250 foot run. No wind and solar seems to sell bare minimum wire gauge. Converting to AC at the dam would likely save money and produce more energy. Adding some light weight extensions to the side of the wheel would increase efficiency also.

[@AndyD162]

instead of trying to get your 20' from above the spring, what about below the dam? It does look like there is quite a bit of elevation change between the spring head and water level at the dam and below.

[@jaysmith1408]

Such as pumped storage? A larger reservoir with the off flow of this one, and the several other more seasonal flows. If i’m not mistaken, there is a boundary with the state that may be of concern, depending on location and scale of lower lake.

[@trentgay3437]

Ok for the flume. a box end with a hole in the bottom straight above where you want the water to drop. It's the drop in height that generates the power not flow of stream on this type of wheel.

[@se8214]

You be right!!

[@clippersncurls]

Just a thought, by modifying the dam to a more controllable adjustable feed allowing an increase in the flow speed in conjunction with Trent's suggestion would be an inexpensive option and easy way to abort if necessary.

[@randallthomas5207]

Get a copy of “Water Wheels, or Hydraulic Motors” by Bresse. It is available on Amazon. It is the only real text on how to design water wheels. Other give you rules of thumb and tell you what works for the authors. This is an actual engineering text book from teh 1850s, before electricity and steam came in to vogue, which was translated from French by Professors at West Point, when teh mission of the Army Corps of Engineers was to capitalize on the water power resources of the United States to promote industry. First in your situation I would have designed an undershot water wheel with the water coming in at the loser third point of the wheel, they are the most efficient with the least flow. the overshot wheel takes little advantage of the momentum of the water, and is instead almost entirely reliant on the mass of the water to deliver torque. On you current wheel, I recommend lengthening the mill race and constructing a nozzle on the end of it to direct the water down and into the vanes. The 12/3 is probably half the size of wire you should be running unless you have stepped up the voltage to 48-volts or more.

[@windsunh2o]

Even if you wind up not using the wheel to power the house, this is still one of the most valuable series of hydro power videos on KZbin because of the discussion you got going. So much information in the videos and comments. Keep us posted if anything new happens with it.

[@Yarrney]

I agree. Very interesting and informative😊

[@gregwarne3252]

kriss harbour on yuotube does water turbines with better videos and explinations

[@ARLGD]

That's a great point! The discussion and information in the videos and comments are indeed valuable. It's always helpful to have a community where we can learn and exchange ideas. By the way, have you heard about the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series? It's a versatile and powerful backup power solution that could be useful for your off-grid cabin. It has a massive capacity, fast recharging, and even waterproof technology. Check it out if you're interested!

[@raytalbot5890]

Go see Marty T he is in NZ has a solar & water generation system, uses an old washing machine for a water turbine 👍

[@guygillmore2970]

that is for high head - not applicable here.

[@raytalbot5890]

Yes but if the spring was fed in to a small gage pipe the water pressure could work a turbine

[@Thomas-wn7cl]

That's what I was thinking too. You could not use Marty T's exact system, but I would be interested in how he would trouble shoot this.

[@Leo-Nee]

Haha crack up. I just shared his smart gen re-wire vid on here lol. He’s great!

[@Leo-Nee]

We wouldn’t mind building a turbine like Marty’s here on our property. We have a stream with big alkathene feeding way way up stream down to the veg garden.

[@Happyantix112]

Focus on putting in some solar which will sort out power especially for when you have it rented, then you can be free to take your time getting the hydro right!

[@jamesmyers3773]

I’m just along for the ride, Dude. I know you will get it worked out. Can’t wait to see that video.

[@arthurkallansrud1950]

Check into a bicycle 10-12-18 speed gear sprocket drive from your water wheel to get the rpms you may need .

[@FiscalWoofer]

Yes because that wheel has a lot of torque, but limited rpm. If the wheel had even larger paddles the torque would go up a lot so even with high gear it will turn it right?

[@lclunday3421]

Box in the end of the flue

[@trentgay3437]

I would convert to ac power at the wheel by using an old generator with a broken motor slap a belt on instead of the motor and run 110v to the house to charge the bank.

[@gravelydon7072]

You need a float adjusted flume gate. When the flow is low, it needs to open more. When you have a high flow, it would close down on the flume gate. Adding a section as Trent Gay said would also help. You might lose more water to waste thru your spillway opening but you would gain overall. You could add a gate there but the rise in water level would have to open the gate which is harder to get right than one that closes. You could also use a flyball governor to control a gate but that also adds complexity and maintenance.

[@kevinwatson5833]

I would definitely do both solar and water and sounds like chris guy is onto something

[@jasondevine6014]

Yep I agree Chris is making all the right suggestions

[@twodogsandtheirfamily]

2000 watts / 24 VDC = 83 Amps. That is wayyyy too much for a 10 awg wire.

[@thebiglebowski9849]

Agreed but he does have 6 wires so it is not likely all the current is being carried by 1 wire. Also, what really counts though is how many amps he is actually generating, not necessarily how many amps the generator is rated for. He will need the multi-meter he ordered to determine that.

[@thefurrylittleotter3460]

I’m pretty sure it’s ac, and even if it isn’t, there’s no way no hell he’s generating 83 amps

[@cylus13]

@@thefurrylittleotter3460 It is an AC 3 phase generator. The rectifiers were at the controller in the building.

[@thefurrylittleotter3460]

@@cylus13 that’s what I thought. 10g is more than adequate with ac for what he’s generating.

[@McCuneWindandSolar]

he has 6 wires that will be caring the power to his cabin 10 gage is good up to 30 amps. and he has 6 of them so he should be good. As long as he runs only AC from the generator, to his cabin and then convert to DC

[@adamforman9264]

The turbin style kicks ass , from what I seen thats what I would invest in , your wheel works but its a good back up system....an yes one day I would luv to do what you are doing good luck man 😎✌🍺🍕

[@Markperry123]

Yes good idea kinda like Niagara falls you could make 2 holes at the bottom of the dam put in pipes inside a tubine gen turns makes power could that work. All of this sounds so fun I so be Hine doing this stuff if I could

[@Markperry123]

One more thing if you do solor it and dam coukd be both good enough water and solar too keep enough power

[@joecarte7538]

You could improve the wheels efficiency by shaping the buckets like and upside-down letter "L." this would catch the spout and hold the water to almost the bottom of rotation. I saw appears to be 3 phase AC power going to you house with rectifiers on the control panel - this is good.

[@johnlockesghost5592]

This is the answer, but he won't listen.

[@johnraley5713]

I suspect the biggest issue is the long run with low voltage over relatively small wire causing too much voltage drop. Higher voltage requires less current for the same amount of wattage whether AC or DC.

[@gravelydon7072]

He said there are 6 # 10 wires there. That means that he could use two conductors per leg and not see the drop he seems to be getting. He might want to ring out the wires and see if there is a break somewhere.

[@jfitzerelli]

I’d bet on a bad splice. Wet underground... an ohm meter is necessary

[@gravelydon7072]

@@jfitzerelli Joint, then rubber tape, electrical tape, friction tape, heat shrink tubing, concrete. That'll seal it. :-)

[@jfitzerelli]

@@gravelydon7072 huh?

[@gravelydon7072]

@@jfitzerelli Making sure the splice doesn't get water in it.

[@anandawijesinghe6298]

You seem to have plenty of water flow rate and water head available, and should be able to produce at least 10 times the power ( say 500 watts) that you say you are generating. The formula for available hydro power in watts is: Power (watts)= water density (1000 kg/m^3) x grav.accelaration (9.8 m/ sec^2)× total head (m)xwater flow rate(m^3/sec) Let us assume you have 1m total head between head race and the tail race of your water wheel, and 0.1 m^3/sec of flow rate. Then, Avail Power = 1000 x 9.8 x 1 x 0.1 = 980 watts. Your head is more likely to be double this at 2m, while your flow rate may be only half at 0.05 m^3/sec (You have to measure these values). Then, your avail power is still 980 watts. The efficiency of your overshot waterwheel is likely to be at-least 0.5, so you should still get at least 490 watts. Use an inexpensive high voltage, say 220 vac, 3-phase AC permanent magnet generator, and send the generated ac power to your house with a standard 3-wire (black,white,green) outdoor extension power cable. 3-phase power = sqrt (3)x line current x line voltage. Then, for 490 watts, line current = (490/(sqrt(3)x220)= 1.29 amps that the cable can easily handle without significant resistive power dissipation. At the house, use a 3-phase rectifier to convert the 220 vac to dc, connect a high rated voltage (say 500vdc, high value (say 500 mfd) capacitor across it to smooth the rectified dc ripple. The smoothed dc voltage is likely to be higher than 220vdc, say 311vdc, nearly equal to the peak ac voltage input to the rectifier. Then connect this smoothe dc output to an isolation dc circuit breaker, before connecting to a high input voltage (350dc say) stand-alone or grid-tie inverter to get standard voltage house power. You can also use a single phase ac generator instead of a 3-phase ac generator with a single phase rectifier. The advantage is that you can use a cheap single phase variac transformer to adjust the ac voltage at will, without a significant piwer loss, to match the dc input voltage requirements of the inverter. BTW, make sure that the ac generator turns at the speed reqd to generate the rated high ac voltage. If the reqd speed is high (say 2,000 rpm), then you have to increase the gear ratio between your water wheel and the genetator shaft. If not, you can a low-speed (300 rpm for full voltage output) , high-pole count, high voltage output, 3 phase generator such a washing machine Paykel Smartdrive that can deliver as much as 1kW.

[@toddm728]

Remember, drop is from the surface of the water. If your pipe drops 10" and your pond is 10", you have your 20" drop.

[@eldstgilmorbarboydodellatb4413]

💚💚💚💚 bookmark/ notes : Ferris wheel 🎡 kiss- get a room/ shed ( 🚽 baseball kiss cam , wooden water wheel dc cord closer to battery 🪫 ) …..ect…..tbc….-g-b, bot