Logic Pro update 10.7.3 (now monitor Dolby Atmos with the Apple Renderer)

[@AnasAlsayedStudio]

wanna see same quality as this video for the upcoming Nuendo 12 .. really really great video

[@Sentientfx1]

Great video! It sounds like the Apple renderer is adding some sort of room simulation on top of the mix which is bad news if your music is not the standard singer/band format.

[@marblecalm]

This was very helpful, thank you, although I've had a lot of trouble getting it working. If anyone's having a weird problem with their AirPods going into mono... this can happen if you have the AirPods mic set either as the input for Logic, or for your system as a whole - it can tip over to 16 bit integer mono instead. Not ideal for surround mixing! I've also had problems with "Spatial Audio Not Available" showing in the Sound menu on the menu bar. I've found going to Apple Music and playing an Atmos mix can help persuade the AirPods to enter Head Tracking mode. Once it's done that, it can go back to saying "Not Available" while still working. I've spent far too much of the afternoon spinning in a chair with my eyes closed trying to convince myself it's working...

[@tavo7088]

Yes, my AirPods Pro ALWAYS sound terrible and distorted with Logic. Never remember having this problem with the regular ones. Would love for someone to find a solution to this

[@marblecalm]

@@tavo7088 make sure AirPods aren’t selected as an input in Logic or in the System / Sound preferences. If you check in Audio Midi Setup, you should see it’s changed from 16 bit integer moon to 32bit floating point stereo.

[@martinaberg4048]

Thank you Edgar! Great walk-through about the the new update. Will download it today and check it out!

[@jimifiTube]

Thank you, great information and presentation, so glad to find your channel! And I started out with emagic Notator on a 1040 ST, so thank you for preventing a possible meltdown around the missing environment - like the one I experienced when they hid the legacy plugins :) I would love to hear your thoughts (or a new video!) on HOA to/from Atmos in Logic. My ‘simplified’ current workflow is Logic individual outs through Blackhole into Reaper(3d3O HOA processing + recording ZM-1) Blackholing that out to MAX using SPAT for decoding in 20 speaker 4 sub spherical room..then squash it down to 7.4.1 for release on Apple Music, etc.

[@TheGiftof7PRESENTS]

Great info. Been enjoying mixing ATMOS via LPX since BETA. Both the new Apple Studio & Studio monitor makes more sense now. The monitor was designed with ATMOS clearly in mind/integrated.

[@levondarratt787]

nobody cares nor use this in music..... complete head screwing...like a band standing around you and bombard you with music! its not a problem that exists in real life, so why create this madness...for movies yes...music never!!! sounds crap.

[@TheGiftof7PRESENTS]

@@levondarratt787 It’s a matter of taste. No one is being forced to use these tools. It’s there for those that decide to create with it. Others can simply choose to ignore its features all together. #MuSétiś

[@MusicTechExplained]

Be careful with those generalizations "... nobody cares nor use this in music..." Obviously you haven't payed attention to what is going on in the pro audio community or looked at the numbers, how many people are already listening to Dolby Atmos (without even knowing it)

[@cl-zachwilliamsstudios3358]

Since the Logic Pro 10.7.3 update the automation parameters are not available anymore for Arturia synth plugins, Spectrasonic plugins & more

[@DJSteveRobbertt]

Thanks for the great video! Indeed very helpful and insightful. Very well explained. Keep up the good work.

[@jeffschmidt9597]

Thanks for getting this out so quickly - great work!

[@OfficialStevenCravis]

Edgar, can you create a video about how to get -1 True Peak and -18 LUFS on the Spatial Audio mix?

[@brianmartin7710]

Thanx a lot ! You are the best Atmos teacher. One Question, How do you mix Atmos? WIth Headphones and Speaker? Whats your Speaker System (if you have one) and whats your prefered Monitoring (Headphones or speakers) ?

[@MusicTechExplained]

THe recommendation is that you mix with a 7.1.4 dedicated speaker setup (minimum) and check wi the headphones for the binaural renderer output. For mixing with headphone, you have to at least check on a speaker system before releasing a Dolby Atmos mix.

[@DavidLilja]

Maybe it’s time to switch back to Logic Pro again? I moved to Studio One in 2012 and have stayed there since but the lack of Dolby Atmos and their complete radio silence about it is a bit troublesome.

[@hireality]

Brilliant video Edgar 👍

[@ChrisFalson]

Thanks for this. Love your lessons. Cheers

[@triprasa7]

Very much informative video

[@MyOwnWayMusic]

Thank you, you saved my day 👍

[@CaliBamaBoy205]

Wow this changes everything!

[@patrickdd5]

Please note: apple Renderer only Available on apple silicon mac

[@MusicTechExplained]

Not exactly. A silicon Mac is only needed for Apple Renderer head tracking. An Intel Mac will work for Apple Renderer and Apple Renderer built-in with macOS 12.3

[@patrickdd5]

@@MusicTechExplained I stand corrected you were right

[@groovio]

Hi Edgar, Your video is a life saver as i plan my first Album Mix for Apple Music. Also bought your book to go through. I do have a question though. So, if my goal is primarily to mix for Apple Music, are the 'Bed Track Outputs' of any consequence? Can't i just use Objects and be done with it? As i understand, the Bed tracks are primarily physical speaker outputs. If Apple is not taking any 'Binaural' information for their renderer, how are the Beds of any consequence? Or, is there a proprietary Binaural Setting they apply to their Bed Tracks also, so push the sound away from the listener? Thank You in advance :)

[@cherrysound]

Amazing work! Thank you so much!

[@jochenschmidt-hambrock]

What is the most similar setting of the Dolby binaural renderer to the Apple binaural renderer? Near, mid or far? (Thank you for your channel, your books and your clear way of explaining that un- intuitive way to a great new way of listening to music :-)

[@MusicTechExplained]

THe consensus among mixing engineers was that Mid was the closest to the Spatial Audio Renderer, However, now with the option for an AB comparison, it sounds more like the Far settings with a lot of room information.

[@RodrigoLana]

Excelente!!!

[@supersoniqamanyi3075]

YOU ARE THE BEST

[@SamHocking]

Great video Edgar. Could you confirm what happens to the Atmos 3D panning and size/divergence metadata from the panner in the Apple Spatial Renderer? I assume all Atmos panning metadata gets ignored and Apple Spatial Plugin/Monitoring is essentially a 7.1.2 fixed channel bus type panning. ie no metadata used by Apple Spatial Renderer to further pan/size objects like the Dolby Atmos Renderer would.

[@MusicTechExplained]

Pan and size parameters of the object tracks are part of the pan metadata that is stored separately with the corresponding audio signal of that object. Objects are not restricted to any speaker configuration, the pan metadata is a XYZ coordinate stored with the ADM BWF file. Only the BInarual Render Mode metadata is ignored when the ADM BWF file encoded to a DD+JOC file for distribution.

[@SamHocking]

@@MusicTechExplained Many thanks for the reply. The DAW/Dolby 3D panner does send panning and divergance metadata to the Dolby Atmos Renderer though and the renderer uses it to further pan/move the incoming audio. I was just interested if the Apple Spatial Renderer takes this metadata too and uses it in the same way Dolby Atmos Renderer does. This is easy to test. Have 0 sized object in center channel only and set divergance to 100% and see if all speakers receive audio, not just the bed and .2 heights

[@PerceptiveAudio]

Excellent, thank you

[@dannykirsch]

Thanks for a great video. I’ve been playing with this over the past few hours and for some reason monitoring in apple render mode even with airpod maxes sounds terrible. It sounds more spacious for sure but everything sounds wispy and out of phase. Particularly lead vocals, bass and percussion whereas it sounds amazing in binaural mode. Has anyone else found this to be the case? I got very excited watching your video and planned to mix from the offset in the apple renderer mode (on speakers) but it sounds terrible and I imagine it’s at all an accurate representation of what you’d hear streaming your apple spatial mix via Apple Music. Any ideas ?

[@MusicTechExplained]

Yes, the Apple Renderer uses much more spatial elements.

[@dannykirsch]

@@MusicTechExplained but how does one get rid of the awful phasing and terrible sound which you don't get when monitoring in Binaural? Sure it doesn't sound like that when streamed on Apple Music does it?

[@originalvonster]

Hi Edgar Rothermich, do you have a #2 book about Dolby Atmos? I can only find #1 and #3. Thanks.

[@MusicTechExplained]

I'm working the #2 book. It should be available and of Spring 2022

[@fellabrownn]

thank you so much

[@user-sn6vc7zp9w]

Greetings! I'm using 10,7,4 and the only option available is 'Dolby renderer' all other options are greyed out. What did I miss?

[@minasemmanouil5844]

Thanx for the very useful video! What about other streaming platforms? If you mix with apple renderer then you will probably end up with a good mix for apple music, but what about other platforms such as Tidal? I assume you'll need a separate mix for them, right?

[@MusicTechExplained]

You have to find a middle ground. Tidal and Amazon use the binaural renderer form Apple via the AC4-IMS codec, so you you have to monitor through the Dolby Renderer in Logic to listen how that sounds.

[@mattfoster5304]

Yes it is challenging, I wonder if creating the mix with the Apple Renderer first, and then trying to match with the Dolby Renderer would be a good approach?

[@amsai.universe]

Thanks for the video. I'm a bit confused about the Spatial Audio Monitoring that can be used in an effect channel; what would be the purpose of that? I mean, you monitor your mix based on the setup you have on the master channel.

[@mattfoster5304]

Yes me too - what is the purpose of the Spatial Audio Monitoring Plugin other than using it on the master channel after all other plugins?

[@conrow1157]

What would be a good solution if I have a project where I have already used a lot of bus routings and bus mixing tools? Because surround routes everything to the master. And what do I do with my Master Channel and the Stereo Plugins? So does it make sense to bounce my entire mix into individual audio tracks and then start a new surround project? But then I miss the previously used master plugins, because of course I turn them off during track bouncing. Thanks

[@neonkuromi]

head tracking is greyed out for me :/

[@tanphamviet2752]

Cảm ơn bạn!

[@Marco13425]

Great Video! I also have one question, because my binaural mix from the Dolby Renderer sounds different as soon i monitor it through "Logic´s Dolby Renderer"..have you also make this experience? It sounds like the render modes from logic are different than from the original dolby renderer...

[@MusicTechExplained]

I haven't done a comparison, but I think it is tricky to do an AB comparison. When you listen through the Dolby Atmos Renderer you have a different routing (from the DAW to the DAR) than if you listen to the Dolby Binaural Renderer in Logic where everything is inside the box.

[@Marco13425]

@@MusicTechExplained Thank You! But I exported the ADM BWF from the original Dolby Render 3.7.3. and simply imported this ADM to Logic 10.7.3. Logic automatically created a new Atmos Project with all Objects and correct Render Modes i used before. I hit space to play and didnt changed anything in logic so why does it sound different then? It also sounds as some unknown phase shift or something wrong in the signal from logic. Then I exported this from logic I did the AB comparison...for me it would be great to know which method is the most reliable to monitor how it would sound on the streaming platforms..

[@MusicTechExplained]

@@Marco13425 That's really interesting. I will look into that.

[@Marco13425]

@@MusicTechExplained Thank You👍 Besides have you noticed an improvement with your personalized HRTF from Apple?

[@Kaufaudio]

So considering that the Apple Renderer ignores the binaural render settings, does that mean there is absolutely no way to have certain stems play back without any binaural processing? I can't seem to get a normal left/right stereo stem to sound the same through the Apple binaural renderer no matter where I place it.

[@MusicTechExplained]

When your Atmos is playing on Apple Music it will played (processed) through their Spatial Audio engine. The only way to monitor during production what it will sound later is using the Spatial Audio options in Logic Pro (Or export an MP4 file in the Dolby Atmos Renderer)

[@michaelainsworth480]

Does anyone else get latency issues between MIDI channels? I have followed all settings recommended in this video and even tested the difference between the rendering options, low latency mode, changing clock settings and buffer size in preferences and still there remains a clear latency issue between channels. I am running logic 10.7.3 on a M1 Mac mini on macOS Monterey and have tried opening the software with and without Rosetta. The CPU is super low so definitely not an issue. If anyone knows how to solve this issue it would be greatly appreciated, thanks

[@TonalliMaganaGuzman]

Hello! Is there a way to import OMF in the new 10.7.3 update, I can't make a import. I already tried different omf files.

[@MusicTechExplained]

AFAIK, OMF support in Logic was dropped quite a while ago.AAF is still supported, but with a limited feature set.

[@KhasrouhRecords]

so still we can't export the audio into mp4 for listening using the av reciever ? i don't want to pay for the dolby renderer

[@MusicTechExplained]

In Logic Pro, no, it doesn't have the mp4 export feature. But for Spatial Audio, it is not needed anymore and so much better to AB it in real time.

[@Kirk-Monteux-Production]

The apple renderer makes everything sitting in a small box, just awful. Why would I do all the extra work only to get my mix trashed. No wonder music fans prefer the plain stereo version.

[@SamHocking]

You already have to decide if you are mixing to sound best on Dolby Atmos binaural playback for Android & Windows users or for Apple Spatial (iOS, macOS etc) users. This Dolby v Apple monitoring solution in Logic Pro is simply allowing you to conveniently see how much worse Apple Spatial is and speeding up the process of pulling all your hair out at the madness of it all!

[@Kirk-Monteux-Production]

@@SamHocking exactly

[@levondarratt787]

yeah...I dont liek the sound of atmosphere....a violin above my head.???..F - that , loL!!!

[@TipuHosssain]

Sir, I am using Mac Intel , BigSur 11.6.5, Which Logic Pro version is suitable for me?

[@MusicTechExplained]

Yes, Logic Pro 10.7.3 will run on that machine, however, the three Apple Renderer options will be grayed on in the Monitoring Format pop-up menu.

[@TipuHosssain]

@@MusicTechExplained Thank you so much sir❤

[@onesamples]

wow 😉👌🏻

[@drumshero03]

So, I've gone to the "Mix" tab and clicked Atmos and put it in Apple Renderer (I've also tried Dolby Renderer). I've also went to the audio preferences and did the spacial audio thing. However, whenever I have the Atmos plugin on, the sound doesn't work. Can anyone help?

[@MusicTechExplained]

With an an explanation like "... the sound doesn't work", nobody can help. You have to be a little bit more precise with your description about what doesn't work, or what you mean with "work".

[@drumshero03]

@@MusicTechExplained ok, I followed every step, the track says it’s sending audio, but the main output isn’t getting anything. So basically I lose audio, when I turn the Atmos plugin on. Funnily enough, when I turn it off again, the sound doesn’t work. I have to change my audio output from “Surround” to “Stereo Out” and even than it will only work on one side (I left one, if I’m not mistaken)

[@MusicTechExplained]

@@drumshero03 It is important to "understand" every step, not just following them. You have to be clear about the signal flow of bed tracks compared to object tracks. BTW, the last thing you want to do is setting a track to Stereo Out. I assume you don't have a dedicated 7.1.4 speaker setup, so the only option is listening to your Atmos mix through Binaural over headphones. When you select that in the Atmos Plugins (as you said in the original post), then that 2-channel signal is sent to the audio interface that you have selected in Logic's Audio Preferences.

[@drumshero03]

@@MusicTechExplained yes I’ve tried both Apple and Dolby Binaural options and none work on my headphones. I’ve then changed it to 5.1, and audio passes only on the left. Could it be something to do with loudness (the whole -18 thing)?

[@MusicTechExplained]

@@drumshero03 Has nothing to do with the Loudness. Check the output assignment in Logic, what and how audio channels are routed to your selected audio interface: Logic Pro > Preferences > Audio > I/O Assignments > Output. The binarual render of the Atmos mix (Dolby Renderer of Apple Renderer) is send to the the channels that you have selected in the Output pop-up menu of the Stereo section in that Preferences window.

[@boomish69]

Why on earth does Monterey have to do with enabling the Dolby render? Nothing that’s Apple Marketing using Logic to force people to update:(

[@MusicTechExplained]

Please read carefully. The Dolby Renderer in Logic doesn't require Monterey, only the Apple Renderer.You are NOT forced to upgrade and can still continue to use BigSur as before mix in Logic using the Dolby Renderer.

[@domenicopolo]

@@MusicTechExplained any idea why Apple render it’s greyed out. I have the latest msc book pro M1 pro, latest Monterrey and AirPods Pro

[@boomish69]

@@MusicTechExplained I do get that I meant the Dolby render playback process in general, it is a “Dolby Atmos” ADM file & you need to know what both Dolby & Apple are going sound like for a mix release as Apple want to use their own renderer for streaming, what’s the point in making a Dolby Atmos track if you still can’t hear what it’s going to sound like on Apple Music, that’s insane. There can’t be any reason why you need Monterey. I mean it’s like the stupidity continues, first they release a mix format without being able to listen back to it now you get half of it unless you upgrade your OS! Music makers just want to make music and have it streamed professionally on all platforms, why does Apple have to mess this up so badly. The worst thing is Apple’s renderer doesn’t sound good when decoding a perfectly fine Dolby Atmos mix so unless your going to restrict your release from Apple Music what’s the point. Every other DAW using DAR sounds fine, why can’t Apple just use that.

[@SamHocking]

@@boomish69 The deliverable to Tidal, Apple Music is still the same ie Dolby Atmos ADM, this Logic update is allowing you to hear what Dolby Atmos Binaural (Android & Windows) sounds like on headphones and what Apple Spatial (apple) sounds like. Ultimately tye same 'mix' is what gets published to all streaming platforms, it's just Apple Spatial & Dolby Atmos Binaural are different and so you need to be aware of that when mixing/mastering the Atmos ADM.

[@boomish69]

@@SamHocking Not sure you’ve understood Sam, I appreciate the reply, watch some of Edgar’s previous videos, Apple use a different renderer to,all other streaming platforms when decoding the ADM file that’s why Atmos of the same mix on other platforms sounds different! What makes it worse is there was no simple way of checking the mix back as it might sound from Apple streaming. An insane situation for anyone sending off a mix as they couldn’t check it, now Apple have fixed this but you need Monterey! That’s a joke

[@KevinStCroix]

Great video. Apple EarPods use communication between their headphones that emit way too much emf through your brain and sensitive systems in your body. I will pass and wear my tin foil hat 😂

[@levondarratt787]

this solves a problem nobody needs.... a complete head fuggery and complication that will never be main stream if it is convoluted liek that. They need to agree on one, simple standard.... Hearing music in Atmos, is liek standing in a rehearsal room surrounded by 25 crazy musicians..a;ways sounds like crap...Stereo is liek seeing the Boston symphonics from 30 feet away,. That is why nobody talks or requests Atmos... People don't even realize it.It is cool in movies, basically just surround sound... But for music - no - it is not how we experience music...someone on top of us, someone behind us, someone below us..that is a recipe for disaster... Again, hence people don't wow about it or mention it. You can spend years deciphering this caucophony - or be a successful producer or mixing engineer and focus on MUSIC!

[@MusicTechExplained]

Just so you know, you don't have to listen to Dolby Atmos or mix in Dolby Atmos, unless it will be part of your record deal. The other revelation to you might be that humans are hearing in immersive sound. So the Dolby Atmos format (or any other immersive sound format) is not a gimmick, it is an attempt to get closer to how humans experience sound naturally. It is not just another format for movies or music. Of course, technology is not there yet but please read up on the topic, especially Binaural Audio. BTW, stereo is no like listening to the Boston symphony from 30 feet away (read up on room reflections). Did you ever listen to an organ concert in a big church or cathedral? This not stereo, not even surround, it is immersive, perceived by your two ears and processed by your brain for a 360 sound experience as it happens.

[@generallouis]

Exactly 👍