LONG Arm vs SHORT Arm, which is better?

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This is a side by side comparison of a long arm suspension setup and short arm suspension setup on my 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ.
I am running Fabtech 4" coil springs, Rancho lower arms and Rubicon Express adjustable upper control arms in the rear.
Like i said every suspension is different and also depend on the quality and location of the shocks you are running.
Bonus photos of my long arm build using Barnes 4WD heim joints, brackets and differential cover and also some four wheeling.
DISCLAIMER: Due to factors out of the control of Muddy Beards 4X4, we cannot guarantee against improper use or unauthorized modifications of this information. Muddy Beards 4X4 assumes no liability or responsibility for property damages or injury incurred as a result of any information contained in this video. Use this information at your own risk. Muddy Beards 4X4 recommends safe practices when working on vehicles and/or with tools seen in this video. Any injury, damage, or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or from the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Muddy Beards 4X4. Be safe! This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, we receive a small commission. This helps support the channel and allows us to continue to make videos like this. Thank you for the support!

[@GeekSmut-fg5te]

The part at the end was super useful to illustrate some important things about long arms. Particularly the axle movement forward and back, which 2” does not sound like a lot but at fully flexed can make a noticeable change in stability.

[@The6FigureAffiliate]

Awesome - appreciate the comprehensive info.

[@ronstachewicz4265]

You Verified and validated what I am doing to my jeep.. Thank you.

[@DavidNJ1]

Two hints. 1) you can write on the concrete floor with chalk, easier than a pad and paper. 2) string with a plumb bob can be held against something or wrapped over a wheels stud, frame rail, etc. to leave a point on the floor to mark with the chalk. Then just measure the distance.

[@michael-michaelmotorcycle]

Great explanation using the wood trim seesaw teeter-totter thing thing. Nate from bleepinjeep sent me. Wasn’t that him in the opening clip?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thank you, and yes that was Nate filming me, lol. We have been friends for a long time.

[@tcd671]

I have a long arm AND a short arm.. it’s hard to find a good jackets

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Ok but to settle the controversy. Which arm works better?

[@tcd671]

The short arm constantly holds the “👌” or ok sign and the long arm punches anyone who looks at it.. so I guess there both pretty important..

[@paulhudson6138]

Ahahhaah!

[@whowho8470]

My buddy had a short arm kit on his TJ and he hated it. He said it was very rough ride quality. He switched it out for a 4" Rough Country long arm and he absolutely loves it. Very smooth ride quality.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

👍🏻

[@danhambrick6331]

That's why I am going with Iron Rock OffRoad RockLink setup for my XJ.

[@kdigiacomo]

Yep, good call Dan! I'm switching my setup to IRO long non adjustable.

[@aljohnson1191]

I remeber a few years ago asking on jeep forum if anyone ran long arms in the front and short arms in the rear and people absolutely tore me a new one

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Forums can be rough, lol. I did a front axle swap and decided to do the long arm at the same time. The thing that’s holding my up in the rear is the $1000 gas tank it takes to stretch it how I want it. Thanks for watching👍🏻

[@ka4172]

On extreme hillclimbs the short arm lifted Jeep tend more to hopping at the rear axel.

[@_migulin]

thank. I will try to make long arms on my monster.

[@markcarpenter3600]

4" IRO lift on my WJ. Started out with long arms in the front and short arms in the rear, beat the crap out of me. I didn't think I wanted to go through what was needed to install them in the rear. The control arms were at a 30° angle sitting on the street. Made the switch to long arms front and rear. PLUSH. . . . PLUSH is the only word for it! It's so PLUSH on the last trip to Mojave, moving way too fast blew my shocks out between the mailbox and Razer Road Shell station. LOL!

[@mrrude7211]

Can you/ have you made a video/ take pictures of your rear tire carrier? I'm interested in it but couldn't see too well in the video.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

I did a walk around video of my tj on the channel where I show and talk about the tire carrier. Thanks for watching!

[@electroniccheeks]

Great explanation.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thank you, appreciate the support!

[@j.m.967]

Hi gents. Please someone tell me, on wj rear upper short A arm and rear lower long works and it will be smooth ride with 5" or max 5.5" lift, with front long IRO 3 link? Thanks for all.

[@charliedee9276]

Nice front axle. I have a 44hp from a 78 Ford waiting to go into my 04 WJ.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Sweet, what suspension are you going to run in the front?

[@charliedee9276]

Not sure yet, leaning toward a Clayton LA. I have the 9" rear axle also, that may be used in the rear.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Might as well keep it a matching set, lol. the Clayton kits are nice but expensive. No sure your fab skill level but i would go with a builders kit like the Barnes 4WD long arm kits.

[@yeti9228]

Thanks for the video! You and Nate have allowed my walnut brain to understand long arm vs short arm arguments 😁 1 3/4", Math is hard. I felt that in my soul 🤣

[@ajclinton5299]

how does the long arms preform on fast pace trails? My short arms ride like hell and I am hoping to keep up with my friends and their JK’s with longer wheelbases and geometry. Thanks!

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Makes it ride so much smoother for sure. Long arms make a huge difference 👍🏻

[@jasonlenihan9854]

I have some long drives planned for my cj7. I also plan on needing to be in four wheel drive to get to some of my hunting spots with my daughters. I never worried about a smooth ride in it 25yrs ago. But now with my daughters driving it as well . What changes or mods would you recommend to make it a Tighter better Steering ride ,and also a little smoother, I have been really interested in all the control arm work you have been doing and was just wondering if for my Purposes any of that would help. Sorry for the Convoluted question. I hope it makes some sense. Thanks for the video and keep up the good work. Here’s Mud in your eye from Snohomish Washington.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thanks for watching and reaching out. I have no experience with a cj7, but the same rules would apply to most rigs. As far as steering you need to make sure nothing is worn out, tie rods, steering box, bushings etc. first. I am sure there are aftermarket springs and shock kits that will make it ride much better than stock. Thanks for watching👊🏻

[@jasonlenihan9854]

Thanks for getting back to me, your advice is very much Appreciated.

[@timdelariva1605]

Great vid brotha

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thank you, and thanks for watching!

[@ills95]

Do you feel that long arm makes a huge difference when it comes to just a daily commute? Would I be okay with a short arm or would I be uncomfortable?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Depends on how much lift your have. But short arms are great for a daily driver, unless you have like 6” of lift or more than the short arm will become a problem.

[@ills95]

@@MuddyBeards4X4 thank you! I was thinking of doing like a 4.5 but wasn't sure if short arms would be comfortable

[@thinkclear3834]

If the front stock control arms are bent would that make a issue for the alignment not to be 100% . Cause my Jeep when the steering wheel is straight the left front tire sticks out a little would that be cause of the control arm or differential

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Most likely something in the steering or the control arms.

[@thinkclear3834]

Muddy Beards 4X4 oh ok thanks cause I don’t feel like spending 2500 on a differential

[@lifewithdoberman1701]

How about short arms with drop bracket it steal same or more flex

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Would be the same, just less ground clearance, which is never good, lol.

[@Bluestatesurvival]

Sweet rig. Can you do a walk around sometime?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thanks, I have been meaning to do one, I will get to it soon.

[@luissowhat2511]

So the long arms are safer?

[@michaelangelo4147]

Excellent video nice to know this knowledge when thinking about a lift.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Glad it helped! Thanks for watching

[@keithlea6804]

My thought on this has always been. If you play in the rocks you want long arm. If you have more than 4 inches of lift you want long arm. Me I play in the snow and trail ride. I prefer short arm. Less wheel hop in the snow.

[@nickphillips8682]

Mid arms

[@yerwrng]

I have long arms and I don't have any wheel hop .

[@Towing417]

Understand wheel hop is more a function of geometry, wich with a lift can be %100 better than stock arms. Most likely though, any wheelhop issue has more to do with poor shocks.

[@Little.R]

Interesting seeing long arm front and short arm in the rear. didn't know people did that.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Upgrades come slowly, I just did the front first. It is now long arms all the way around.

[@Little.R]

@@MuddyBeards4X4 Did you notice a big difference when you upgraded the front?

[@LorddOfChaoss]

Bought or built front fenders? If bought, which brand?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

They are home made, thanks for watching!

[@LorddOfChaoss]

@@MuddyBeards4X4 they look meaner than hell

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@seansutherland6270]

Long arms are just better Tho arm length gets confusing to me, is ideal arm length the same as your driveshaft length?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

You should download the 4 link calculator and play around with some numbers. Also I have a newer video on building a 4 link which has all the info in it.

[@the-bu3lb]

can u answer me were I can get the same tire carrier please

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

3d Sorry, you can’t buy it anywhere. It is a custom made one. There is only 1 and it’s on my Jeep, lol.

[@jeremy8715]

Is a 2.5” long arm a thing on Jeep TJs?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

You could always make one, lol.

[@jeremy8715]

@@MuddyBeards4X4 That's true, but I'm wonder if it makes logical sense.

[@rockhumper8843]

But don’t you want to lift the frame up and out of the way. As far as rock crawling go ....you’re crawling right which insinuates moving very slowly soooo pummeling the lower links are on a long arm really is counter intuitive don’t you think 🤔. The limiting factor is really the shocks coil overs being downward flex right and the shock body being the limiting factor going up.

[@BigCatRiverFishing]

What year wagoneer axle shafts are you running?

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

80-92 shafts

[@BigCatRiverFishing]

Muddy Beards 4X4 awesome! What bolt pattern is your hub for wheels? Just curious because I’m considering doing a 44 swap and narrowing it like you did.

[@bemyers123]

I really like Savvy's approach to suspension geometry with their MID-Arm design. It will be the next big upgrade on my '06 LJ. Jeep's stock geometry isn't a bad deal, but as you begin to lifting (especially over 3") it causes several issues. On-road manors suffer due to the angles created via short control arms and you'll feel every crack in the road. Off-road suffers due to the new and steeper geometry angles not allowing smooth and consistent articulation. I went from 2" of lift to 4" and it's a very noticeable difference. Long arms are not a good choice for off-road because the geometry is poorly designed. Long arms will not climb over obstacles as well as short arms. That being said, this is a comparison between equally built/modified Jeeps; one with short and one with long arms. Long arms will allow you greater lift and with the use of stronger axles, you'll be able to run a bigger tire than a short-arm lift...if the L@@K is all that you desire. One major plus with long-arms; a much better on-road ride and would be better for a mall-crawler than a short arm once you cross the 4'' lift mark. Short arms are better off-road, but you're stuck with a max lift of 4 inches and there will be some trade-offs. Savvy is the best option and people who've done the "long VS. short" and switch to Savvy's MID-ARM all agree that it's the real deal. Of coarse, this is just my $0.02 cents worth and opinions vary.

[@rockshockoffroad4x43]

bemyers123 you are wrong about the long arm you can tell you don't know s*** about off-roading because long arm is 10 times better than short arm short arms good and better on the road driving daily compare to long arm I agree with that but when it comes to off-roading it climbs better articulates better it climbs better everything I got a 5.5 long arm kit by Rusty's Off-Road its a freaking Beast you sound pretty stupid saying that a long arm is not good for off-road think about it for a second learn your off road

[@keyboardwarrior3089]

@@rockshockoffroad4x43 Agree. You are 10x more likely to get hung up on long arms on a short wheelbase vehicle.

[@cannonball666]

They got rid of teeter totters? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[@TheCollector5150]

In the rear, you say you have 18" of ground clearance at the bracket which is 15" from the axle. In the front, you say you have 19.5" of ground clearance at the bracket but that bracket is 35" from the axle. How much ground clearance do you have in the front to the bottom of the long arm at 15" from the axle? The short arms get out of the way quicker, long arms tend to get hung up on rocks far more easily.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Unfortunately I cannot accurately measure since I have 40s on the Jeep now. But after just spending a week at king of the hammers, I can tell you my front long arm was great on the rocks, and my rear suspension gave my lots of problems and rides terrible compared to the front. There were no buggies or built rigs down there running short or mid arms. Everyone has long arms.

[@TheCollector5150]

What's the ground clearance of the long arm directly behind the front tire and directly in front of the back tire? If you're running 40's, I'm guessing in the back the short arm is completely behind the wheel and not even a factor so clearance is up all the way to the frame.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

In my particular setup it is 18” of ground clearance in front of the rear tire, which is exactly where the control arm bracket hangs Down off the frame, and 18” at the back of my front tire on my lower control arm.

[@TheCollector5150]

Sounds right, but that rear bracket is out of the way in another inch or so from the rear tire and at that point your clearance is up to your frame, the front arm extends for another foot and a half or so beyond the tire, you drop off a tall enough rock and it's gonna scrape long before a short arm would. My last TJ, I went long arm but it wasn't a daily driver and I didn't drive particularly fast off road either so I didn't really take advantage of the benefits of the improved ride quality much. It's a fact that long arms sacrifice some ground clearance and they were getting in the way so on my current TJ I stuck with short arm. That was the only reason for my comment. In your video you state you have almost 2" more ground clearance on the long arm side but that isn't factual, you just measured in completely different places to create that number. Of course if you go beyond 4" lift then it's a no brainer, long arm is the way to go but like with any mod, it all depends on how you're gonna use it.

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Great points, Thanks for watching!

[@sizzlechest6070]

In my country you make car to get punch to neck face at night boss say no hit back to hurt for 3 day and 1night

[@matty86suk]

Lunktar Bashnish same here bruh!

[@danvaca199]

I feel your pain!

[@blurglide]

Actually, long arm front/short rear is a good idea

[@rockshockoffroad4x43]

Good video brother 😎

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Thank you, and thanks for watching!

[@ozzstars_cars]

The red Jeep is very arousing.

[@allanwagner4570]

still waiting for a muddy beards sticker????

[@AlloffroadAu]

great video and good explanation, long arm all the way

[@danhoy8356]

I actually miss my short arms

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Why is that?

[@danhoy8356]

Just preference. It’s like it’s too smooth for me.. almost like i blob over things. I’m over in Yakima, so maybe I’ll see you on the trails!

[@MuddyBeards4X4]

Well never heard of smooth being a negative, lol. But everyone has their preference. Hopefully planning a trip over the other side of the mountains soon! Thanks for watching.

[@snakeskinproductions7500]

There is a company called "Stinkyfab" They have a very interesting article about short vs long arms. Very much worth the read. I have an XJ so its a bit different then your set up but they make some very interesting arguments. Check it out Its on there drop mount page for XJ's. You guys do some great videos by the way...

[@rockhumper8843]

Not to mention permanently altering and modifying your chassis plus excessive money in the thousands of dollars for minimal gains......aftermarket short arms are actually longer and stronger than stock and if you really need that cushy ride drop brackets have been around forever. Cutting your factor brackets are a semi permanent decision that could set you back hundreds if not a thousand to reweld those brackets back to oe specs.

[@longhorn8459]

I have looked for tj drop brackets and they really don't exist. True on cutting factory brackets but I'm still leaning towards selling my currie 4" short arms and going long arms for the ride quality.

[@speedyfpv7104]

Ok I cant be the only one. When he gets to the rear short arm he says it's transferring energy directly into the chassis. Yes this would be true If he was going in reverse. But if he was going over an obstacle going forward.....the forces being experienced by the rear drivetrain would be pulling it backwards to the rear. So when he says the rear lower control arm pushes FORWARD into the frame I die. literally l lose all willpower to continue watching. Great vid otherwise though 😅

[@jeffbeaird747]

No car wash within a 100 miles.? You gave some good information but a LOT of it was HALF-ASSED...

[@pvmwarchief]

I havent washed my 94 zj in 4months lmao

[@DrHavok1]

Long arms are the only way to go