Longest Wagons Ever... But They Fail On Every Curve | Unboxing & Review

[@georgeovel6423]

Sam, I don't own a model train. I didn't have one as a child because I was scared of electricity and made fun of that by family members. Don't really care about big trains, either. So why do I watch? Easy, your unadulterated sheer joy in describing every detail of trains in your videos. You are one happy chap and it shows. There is no meanness in you and I have no doubts you're friendly to a fault. So I watch to see at least one happy camper in this world. Your girlfriend seems as genuinely happy as you. What a couple! It is a great thing to see your videos. Keep up the good work. Cheerio mate!

[@CentralJerseyRailfan]

The reason why those cars detail so much is because US curves tend to be much broader than their European equivalents; they need a bare minimum 18 inch radius which usually is the tightest curve in the states

[@sct913]

In theory, these longer cars should be able to run on 18 inch radius. However, a minimum radius of 22 to 24 inches is best.

[@SamsTrains]

Nope, I tested these on 22" radius, and still got the issue! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@sct913]

@@SamsTrains You may want to try loosening up the trucks (bogies) a bit and see if that helps.

[@PrinzEugen176]

@@SamsTrains I saw a similar problem with the Walthers 89' flat cars, which are claimed to support 18in radius, the metal wheels rub against molded braces made of metal and short out on 22in, so if you ever are interested in those, I'd say keep that in mind

[@James-Railyard]

@@SamsTrainsI’ve dealt with the Walthers passenger cars and when the box reads “24 inch radius minimum” I don’t go tighter than 26 inches. These cars definitely need wider curves. The issue you’ve run into with these is what I run into with the passenger cars.

[@SCL3618]

As someone who's familiar with plenty of stuff derailing on my channel- I can safely say these cars are indeed very reliable and trouble free. The 60' gons are more comfortable on a 22' radius, the shorter 50's can get away on 18 with no problem. Just need broad enough curves for the wheelbase length and you're set!

[@sharkymcsharknose2979]

One trick US modelers and manufacturers use to help larger locomotives and rolling stock negotiate tighter curves is to install couplers with longer shanks. These Walthers gondolas are fitted with medium-shank couplers for realism. When coupled, and when they reach the limits of their travels, the coupler shanks push against the sides of the draft gear (coupling) boxes. This imparts a levering effect on the rolling stock, which pushes the flanges hard against the rails and creates drag. The wheels may be catching on the center sills but the levering effect is contributing to the drag. Of course, this can also cause one or both wagons to derail. Long shank couplers have more travel before the shanks hit the walls of the draft gear boxes, so they avoid the levering effect. However, the coupled distance between the wagons becomes unrealistically wide. It may be worth it to add long-shank Kadee couplers to the 68' gons to see if that reduces the drag in tighter curves. Walthers should have put a minimum radius in their listings. On extra large rolling stock (86-89ft), the draft gear boxes themselves are mounted on a swivel or have extra-wide openings, and still require 24" minimum radius curves! My 86ft Tangent auto parts boxcars do look impressive on the club layout, which has the sweeping curves and lineside clearances to accommodate them.

[@azuma892]

Schnabel cars: Am I a joke to you?

[@CoalChrome]

Wait until he learns about the jumbo hoppers

[@mikeblatzheim2797]

Märklin did make a Schnabel car that could go around curves with a 360mm radius, and it looks every bit as ridiculous as it sounds.

[@michaelwhite8031]

I would say 'NO' he's very respectful of your enthusiasm and knowledge.

[@Thomas-the-tank-engine-number1]

Your not mega king 😅😅.

[@jensenleblanc]

@@mikeblatzheim2797I have the Bachmann one and it has no problem on 22” radius, never tested it on 18” though.

[@metalstorm242]

Swap out those wheels for Intermountain metal sets and use broader curves. They are not designed for Hornby train set curves and points.

[@mrbluesky2050]

Basically, Yes on both points, some U.K. modellers can be partly 'blinkered' when it comes to Continental and U.S. model prototypes.

[@muir8009]

​@@mrbluesky2050 I'd say they can be all "blinkered" with all using train set (I loathe that term) track work when it suits. In fact the only modellers I've seen who refrain from proprietary trackwork appears to be NZR and to a lesser extent Australian outline modellers, both of which use large radius points and curves, the NZR steam locomotive range tending to necessitate 36 inch radius minimum, the locomotives being very, very fine scale

[@douglasschultz9808]

Greetings from the United States. Those Walthers hoppers and other rolling stock are common in my HO scale club. We rely on a lot of sweeping curves to compensate. Also we have standards for all rolling stock that our wheels must be metal. If you change out to metal wheels they will roll smooth like butter.

[@SamsTrains]

Greetings! Ahh sounds good - with sweeping curves I imagine these would be much better! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Agamemnon2]

I think a big difference is that of operating culture. The UK and Europe in general have smaller home setups, and the Americans have more club layouts. I think there's also a degree of US hobbyists preferring to have things be scale-accurate even it means you need 30"+ curve radius to operate them comfortably. A lot more European models have had fairly obvious scale compromises like bogie-mounted couplers or even reduced body length on coaches (I think a lot of Roco coaches used to be "1:100 scaled" in length in order to be able to negotiate sharp curves).

[@fermitupoupon1754]

@@Agamemnon2 the Roco coaches being 1:100 is definitely true for some stuff. Often they just made it shorter without changing the scale though, so where a normal coach would be 12-windows long, the scale model might only have a 10-window length, in order to have a more manageable model. Still my Roco Plan D coaches are 258mm long, which is H0 scale for their actual length of 22.65m. And even those are too long imho to go round R2 and still look nice. They can handle R1 and R298 curves just fine if they have to, it just looks awkward and messy.

[@jimmyseaver3647]

@@Agamemnon2 And that, at least in part, comes from how American model railroads are often run. A serious British model railway models individual stations and their operations focus on simply keeping to a timetable. American model railroads model yards, industries, stations, and actually building one's train and servicing those things-- so in short, operating more-or-less like an actual American railroad would.

[@crsrdash-840b5]

When you say sweeping curves, you must have super elevated 36-inch radius curves. I don't think UK curves can get any bigger than 24-inch...maybe I'm wrong.

[@Ianshandle999]

Great review as always. Hopefully I can help. When my layout was in Texas the 53' and 68' ran without problems - minimum radius was at least 4th (everything is bigger in texas!). So they run perfectly on the track they are designed for. Moving back to the UK I sold my 68' - no chance of running these here...BUT i run the 53' gondolas from walthers and athearn easily on UK 1st and 2nd radius curves! To achieve this I suggest the following steps: 1.replace the manufacturers' couplers with long centremount kadees This usually is all that is required, but some may also need 2. cut small notch out of sides at end of coupler box to enhance swing of coupler Then if bumps on points/switches - I use peco setrack - add extra weight to gondola Loco pulling will need long couplers - so i can run sd70s and 53' gondolas on 1st radius - looks great on the straights, but a bit silly at some viewing angles on the curves The only time I need to file the underframe is on modern reefers and spine cars...but that may be another review you do :) hope this helps, and keep us the useful reviews

[@The_Iron_Cowboy]

One thing to consider is that HO layouts in the states often use Flextrack to make very wide curves. I may be mistaken but a 4th radius curve is roughly equal to a 22 inch curve, which is your minimum recommended (not minimal for operation) for most US models. Modern locomotives are about the same length as these cars with even more axles. I’m not excusing the behavior as people still do have tight curves. But the difference between OO and HO sometimes pokes through

[@eottoe2001]

For me, tight radii work better for truck-mounted couplers but that isn't prototypical. Not sure what the long ones were used for but the short ones are used to shuttle scrap steel back and forth between scrap yards and steel plants or from docks to steel plants. Those kinds of siding have tight curves. They run the trains very slowly. They aren't going to see much mainline service if any at all.

[@eottoe2001]

The trick on short radii is truck-mounted couplers but those aren't prototypical. In real life, the gondola cars are about 40' to 50's long. They have hard lives having to shuttle scrap steel from scraper to steel plants to docks. They don't see a lot of main action. The yards they work in have tight radius tracks where they operate at very low speeds. 22" would be considered too tight and "not for minimal operation" even in industrial yards. (BTW, in industrial yards, the types of diesel will usually be four-axial only. You'll see EMD SW-1s from the 1950s or GPs from the 1960s still pushing cars today.) Appreciated the comment: you knew what you were talking about.

[@ArcadiaJunctionHobbies]

this is US model railroading today - they have taken the prototypical thing too far. You practically need a basketball court-sized area to build anything larger than a switching layout due to the minimum radius now being massive. This rivet counting has gone too far and less and less is designed for home and small room sized layout curves. Not just in the USA but everywhere else. Hence why so many modelers are returning to 1970s and 80s style modeling.

[@OlivierGabin]

Hence the success of N, narrow gauge, minimal shunting layouts, and the great classic for the UK that is Minories. For instance, the O gauge minimum radius is too broad for me to get a simple oval on my lounge...

[@gilbertporter4992]

Being Canadian, I have an interest in modelling modern day CN, CP & NBSR, as well as 1970s, 8-s and 90s CP & CN branch lines. I admit the increasing length of rolling stock is a concern, as I have to comprise length of trains. I have gained an interest in OO gauge, as the design of trains is something else from what we see in North America. The wagon lengths are quite small and yet cute looking. I want to get into N, but I can't go with selling all my HO for N [would take same amount of time to find what I want in N that I did HO] as there are some things I want that are not in N at the moment.

[@gilbertporter4992]

@@OlivierGabin Minories?

[@PatGilliland]

Or OO British outline. It's exotic on this side of the pond and the tiny wagons let you really pack a switching layout.

[@OlivierGabin]

@@PatGilliland Exactly. That was one of my reason of choice of something to model in OO : you can have short realistic trains with lots of possibilities on a small footprint.

[@evanhizon8112]

Those gondola types are not really used by small or short-branch railroads. These are usually made for the big railroad lines on the mainline. So for those long gondolas in HO, they would be suited for curves up to 26in and over. If you want gondolas that can handle the track on your layout, a 40' Gondola would be ideal.

[@justinboehle7956]

I have one of the 53' gondolas and had the same issue on my 19" radius curves. I solved it by trimming the beam above the bogies like you mentioned. Not sure why they didn't design the clearance into the model as any lost detail isn't visible anyways, lol Also, to improve plastic axle rolling performance, I remove the wheels and "paint" the axle tips with a soft graphite artist pencil. It seems to work pretty good so far and also doesn't collect dirt like oil sometimes does :)

[@chasesrailwaylinesrr6447]

I haven't had a crazy amount of trouble with long wagons Especially my auto racks (Which I think are slightly longer than these) When the wagons are long and 2 light weight Is when they start derailing a lot

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah me neither - it's a design issue with these particular wagons that seems to be the problem! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@rottenroads1982]

Dear ​@@SamsTrains, I am but a Humble Subscriber to your channel, and I am here to ask you when you will finally do the Heljan OO Scale BR class 28 review, and when you finally decide to take a look at OO9 scale. As someone who likes OO9 scale and watches OO9 scale videos, I highly recommend you check it out. It’s to the same scale as OO scale, but it’s track gauge is smaller, and the engines are smaller too. It’s essentially the Narrow Gauge Companion to OO scale, and I recommend you try it out.

[@jamesschlechter4079]

Just adding to the theme... USA layouts usually use wider curves in clubs and displays, but most home hobbyists use 15" and 18" (R1 & R2) curves. Like anywhere, It is all about how much space you have to insert a layout. But, Sam: would you consider releasing a 'How to' video on creating a video for KZbin™? It would be interesting to see what you think are minimum equipment requirements vs what you reccomend to use ( hardware, software, etc). How do you plan and put together an episode? I have attempted some video, but my results are very amateurish compared to what we have seen you release. Keep these great reviews coming! 🚂

[@trr94001]

The accepted wisdom in North American HO is that larger modern freight cars should be used with 24" radius curves or wider unless they have unrealistic bogey mounted couplers. I believe that would be roughly fifth radius in the Hornby/Peco notation. If, like me, you are restricted to tighter curves you mostly have to stick to older 40 foot rolling stock.

[@johnbeck3270]

Here’s another thought, these are still quite “ short” when compared with the passenger coaches used here, 85’ was quite common. The flat cars used in intermodal traffic range from 85’ to 89’. These can easily handle 2 40’ trailers or containers.

[@FerroequinologistofColorado]

Sam if you want a big piece of U.S rolling stock get your hands on a schnabel car. That is a massive piece of rolling stock.

[@skylershummingbird1667]

As someone who operates on a club layout and has quite a few of these, they do run quite well under the proper circumstances. These cars are intended for longer industries and wider curves due to their length so be warned of that. I believe on the website theyre listed as 22 inch radius and up to cope with the length. I will admit, swapping rge axles for all metal make a world of difference in rolling performance in a 40+ car train.

[@NotGavin]

If you think those are large, you should try getting some of the Autoracks! I believe Walthers makes some of those as well. Enjoyed the video Sam!

[@Mike__B]

Was going to say the 85' passenger cars are quite common in the US.

[@davidstrains4910]

Decent review here sam, interesting wagons especially with them being quite long, think the longest items Of stock I have are the coaches and driving car of my hornby class 800.

[@jeffreysmith156]

Since the bogies are screwed in place could you put some washers above the bogies to raise the bodies relative to the bogies?

[@stuartaaron613]

Problem is that then the couplers will be too high to properly couple to other cars (wagons).

[@jeffreysmith156]

A very good point. I was not thinking about the use of many washers. It should work to a degree providing all wagons suffered from the same problem and providing an engine could still couple to them. I was just pondering what options one might have to improve the situation. Kind regards, Jeffrey @@stuartaaron613

[@G60syncro]

Canadian here and my dad is German and into Marklin trains so I get both sides of the fence... You guys have a problem that solves itself! Space is scarce so you have smaller dwellings with less space for sprawling layouts, so you resort to either small loop layouts with sharp radius curves or smaller shunting layouts with pretty much no curves. But thet your rolling stock does not look as goofy because railroads also have limited space and rolling stock tends to be smaller as well!! You should get and auto rack car... all 189ft of it on your layout!!

[@kimcason8764]

Great Review Sam. A very obvious pointer to why we Watch and You Produce these Video's. If they Look great, but most of us can't run them ( at least without Tinkering..!) What's the Point of the things..? And Some will No Doubt Mention your Layout being the Issue. That is also a Plus in my Book, because your Layout is putting the Model up against a Serious Test. If your Layout was Perfect in everyway..! It would not Tell us Modellers who are not blessed with Huge Spaces, Perfectly layed Track ect. Much at All..! So Well Done Young Sir, you've saved me Money in the Past and No Doubt will do Again..! Cheers kim in Oz.

[@ChrisGBusby]

Never had a problem with the ultra long US wagons. But then I always replace plastic axles with metal (and sometimes metal bogies). Like all US wagons they are designed as a basic "toy" but benefit from mods and detailing - very different from UK models and the way we do things. They can also benefit from more weight. US layouts have MUCH broader curves than our R1/R2 stuff (the buffers and wheels will clash - it's a length thing). Try R6 as a starting point (around 650-700mm radius).

[@paolomargini7904]

Usually a Continental coach is 26.20 meters, which is about 86 ft., so a model coach should be longer than any of those wagons. But I still remember I made comparisons between H0 scale coaches and their very prototype, resulting for example that the latter had 14 windows while the model had 12, so I assumed that the model had been shortened, maybe just to better negotiate the curves.

[@ivovanzon164]

Continental coaches have no detail around the bogies on the bottom and NEM shafts so the pivot point and the clearances are a lot better. The longest rigid vehicles (ex Tee dining car and some sleeper car) are about 32 centimeters long, with the standard length being 30,3 cm.

[@alanhaynes4576]

Sam, I love your videos and have been watching for several years now. Keep 'em coming please. However, and I don't mean any offense in any way shape or form, but would you think it rude of me to ask if you can refer to the "Turning Wheel" as you refer to it by its proper name. It is not used for turning anything except a ratchet wheel that winds a chain on or off which in turn applies the brakes on the wagon. In North America they are called simply "Brake Wheel's." In Australia where I worked for about 45 years in Rail. We also call them "Brake Wheel's." I realise that it may be my personal problem, but can you give it a try as I am sure those in North America and Australia will appreciate it.

[@TheRailroader576]

Good afternoon, Sam! I have a very similar grain hopper from Bachmann, never fails to derail on every single switch frog and curve on my layout. So i gutted it for parts, (mostly couplers n things) for use on my Mantua 4-6-0! 😄

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh that's super annoying - good idea to use it for parts though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@KCDash4400cw]

(Extremely long in UK standards) those are pretty average for railways here in the states, we have boxcars that run up to 80 maybe even 90 feet on the daily and those still arent the longest cars seen here, such as Autoracks and ofcourse i cant mention long cars withour mentioning the infamous Schnabel. Anyways this video is awesome! -KCDash4400cw 2023

[@carolinarailfanning]

A note on the trucks, detail is basic because its supposed to be, if you Google "S-2 truck" youll see real ones. *We use them on everything.* They are even used in other countries like Australia, India, Russia, Brazil, and on some British freight cars aswell, across many different gauges. Load limits are no issue, a pair can easily take 100+ short tons. Also try an autorack if you dare...

[@MrBnsftrain]

American freight cars are usually around 53 feet long, but there are boxcars as long as 86 feet that carry auto parts to various factories across the country and 89-foot auto carriers to carry finished vehicles on three levels. Passenger cars can also be just as long, compared to a BR Mark 1 that is just 57 feet long and a Mark 3 that's 75 feet long. Of course there are special cars that are much longer but those have four or more bogies. Any model longer than 12 inches will only work in 22-inch radius curves (3rd and 4th radius) or larger

[@lesliezammit3456]

It might be an interesting exercise to swap out the bogies to see what happens. Really the smaller one should be fine as Australian HO container wagons are commonly 63' in length and they seem to run OK. I worked in a container terminal, where we used one or two 80' container wagons on most trains. What I did notice is that the bogies on an 80' wagon are located a fair distance from each end whereas the Walthers Gondolas have them about as far out as they can go. The massive distance between them does look weird and, as you say, would really affect their carrying capacity unless specifically designed for long loads such as steel beams. It might also be a good idea to double check the lengths just to be sure they are true to scale.

[@lindaoffenbach]

Reminds us of some very long American style cheap Lima tanker wagons we had... Took some time to make them behave decently but they at least had all metal wheels. We gave ours away since we collect Märklin. Simply cheap tosh this; no other words for it. I guess you could change out the wheels to all metal, do some work on them, but we couldn't even bother... Never seen these length of wagons however. That's very interesting. But yeah... el cheapo style stuff... What can you expect 🙅

[@rdgk1se3019]

American railroad rolling stock is bigger, badder , and tougher due to higher weights, larger sizes of loads carried, and longer service life in the USA.

[@muir8009]

Actually they're about the same as the European standard, however the US wagons have to contend with considerably worse track standards but don't have to live with high speed

[@strike9716]

I have a few 84ft flats that were made from old athearn kits. IIRC they're for hauling a pair of trailers. and they have ramps on the end to drive trucks across them.

[@hotdogpilot6319]

I take my instruction from the first Walthers Heavyweight coach I bought, it clearly said minimum 25" radius. I've used that as a benchmark for ALL curves and points on my layout as the absolute minimum, Peco Streamline it was...That way I've never been caught out, It's a shame that wasn't stated clearly on the box.

[@marcyates4323]

Metal wheels and no. 20 long shank couplers , will help a lot

[@ravingsFNF]

13:21: We all got to love that juicy wheelslip! We need a wheelslip compilation.

[@farfartom]

I have just received my new Accurascale class 37 with sound. Having run over a thousand different locos in my time this runs head and shoulders above the majority of what I have. The crawl WoW.

[@OlivierGabin]

You are a lucky man ! I'm drooling to get mine (DC in BR green). Expected for Q1 2024...

[@OlivierGabin]

The minimal recommendation of the MOROP for such wagons is 354,75 mm (roughly R1) but it is an extreme minimal. The practical minimal is recommended at 412,5 mm for station and shunting curves, a little less than the UK R2. But the minimal radius for the USA is 18in/457mm, slightly broader than UK R2, and your have better results at 22in/558mm, a little bit below the UK R4 of 572mm. Those wagons are taylored for those specs, don't forget that. By the way,to reduce drag, you can replace the axles by full metal ones for better performance, but that adds around GBP 4 per wagon, take your pick... It won't solve the problem on tighter curves than R3, and the inner flanges of the wheel touching the coupler's pocket.

[@paulsngaugechannel]

Good video and review. Yes the layouts that they are usually used on are very large and not small curves. Ideal for a flat layout in a large American style room. But they looked impressive.

[@briancooper562]

The longest individual cars available are 84ft autoracks. However there are autorack pairs available, two cars on 3 wheel bogies. Make sure the wheel bogies are free to rotate for your track. This problem of wheel clash with body work is not limited to Walthers, ROCO 2020 coaches also have problems on curves and tight point work. Check pivot screw for over tight joint and release by quarter turn till fully free but still supporting joint and car.

[@BoaFilmsPlc]

Hi Sam, As has been said before, US/Canadian modelling for that length of wagon would require at least a 28 inch radius (4th rad = 26 Inch approx..) Also, US model locos are way heavier than UK models, your SD60 would have pulled them without breaking a sweat. At the Bearwood Group, our main layout has 38 (outer) & 36 (inner) to allow for freight cars & passenger coaches to pass freely. The US loading gauge is massive, allowing 85ft double deck passenger cars & double stack Intermodals (Freightliner) trains to run. As for "if you have a huge layout, you won't want budget models" Quite untrue! If your layout is that big, you'd be running as a mainline so large numbers of wagons required for most trains, so buying "budget" models will help to create the long rakes required. Keep up the good work! Boa

[@andreasweise9342]

I also have one of the large 68' gondola from Walthers, and it runs through 18" curves without issues.

[@Blur4strike]

These are the type of cars that I would do a truck swap on and use a couple of washers help raise the car height, it could help the car clear tighter radius curves. If not that, then I'd sand down some of the underbody detail where the trucks are.

[@Somerset-Trains]

I only just saw you on Hornby a model world, wasn't expecting too see you on there, what a pleasant surprise and what a fun experiment!

[@andrewpalm2103]

Thanks for reviewing more North American models, Sam! For "toy quality" rolling stock over here the couplers are mounted to the trucks and other compromises are made so the cars can negotiiate tight curves. However, most NA model railroaders now reject such modifications as unprototypical and don't buy them. The "layout quality" models you reviewed cost about half the price of highly detailed models, so a model railroader with a large layout that needs a large fleet of freight cars could very much be interested in them. (Good weathering can make a so-so model look a lot better.) Also, if a detailed model of a particular prototype car isn't available, some folks will buy a layout quality version and replace the molded details with separate after-market versions. Again, thanks for remembering your subscribers across the pond. Cheers from Wisconsin!

[@sailormatlac9114]

Truck mounted couplers are a thing from the past. Most manufacturers have upgraded their old tooling to car mounted couplers since the early / mid 2000s

[@muir8009]

​@@sailormatlac9114 ironically of course wagons from 100 years ago all had body mounted couplers lol

[@ThePainTrain765]

I've seen enough of these on various layouts over the years and on larger radius they're not a problem. I've seen them go up curved hills and handle tight yards and not come off. Of course, it still sucks to buy a model only to see it doesn't work on your track. Walthers maybe should have made the truck mounts a tad thinner just to give the cars a little bit of extra wiggle room.

[@AQuietNight]

The legal name for the Soo Line is The Minneapolis, St. Paul and Sault Ste. Marie Railroad. Soo Line is now controlled by the Canadian Pacific Railway.

[@upperwarlord7744]

Get a bi level car carrier, or a ttx flatcar with double semi trailers on it

[@rogerking7258]

I appreciate that you have to test items in standard form, but it actually looks like a simple issue to unscrew the bogies (trucks?) and remove enough material with a small burr mounted in a Dremel or similar.

[@SamsTrains]

That’s right, the issue is totally fixable as usual, but the manufacturer should have fixed it having tested the samples, not the customer!

[@RichardKuivila1947]

Notch in the Cross bracing for flange clearance; will work on 1st radius curves !

[@johnbeck3270]

These gondolas are primarily used to transport pre assembled steel roof trusses used in commercial and industrial building construction. I don’t know how 00 gauge track is sized, but here in the US, it is in inch radius the “standards” being 18”, 22”, 24”, and 36”. Using flex track would allow for “custom” radius curves. The bearing friction issue could be remedied with either Kadee or Walther’s Proto wheelsets, both have metal axles. Walthers has done very well with their purchase of Life Like.

[@astalavistatheexpat6095]

In the standard geometry Hornby and Peco SetTrack use, Radius 1 is 371 mm, Radius 2 is 438 mm, Radius 3 is 505 mm, and Radius 4 is 571.5 mm.

[@Alextrains502]

Sam love your videos keep them coming

[@bentspikeproduction7783]

Hello I’m a American model railroader! American prototype cars are far larger then uk equipment generally. So ideally as a American model railroader if your going to run long freight cars 22 radius is the minimum curve. Also note Walthers passengers cars recommend a minimum radius of 24 radius.

[@bluesteel1199]

We need a train of these pulled by big boy

[@SimRacin14]

Just need some 89 foot autoracks or some 86 foot auto parts boxcars! Those are looooong cars.

[@shovel20]

Hey Sam. Love your work. Yeah USA rail road is a different ball game. We all learn but do make sure you have the radius for the longer rolling stock. If you ever happen to buy a UP big boi you’re definitely going to need to wider radius tracks for corners. You specialise in UK railway so don’t feel to bad for this.

[@Hunter_Dawso]

A good rule of thumb with railcar sizes is the shorter the car, the more dense the load they’re intended to transport. There’s also different size wheels and trucks (bogies) depending on the gross tonnage of the car.

[@TracksideMarkham]

I have these cars on my layout and they run beautifully. Even on 22" radius. No derailment or excessive drag whatsoever.

[@Mildcat743]

If you're up for some really comically large rolling stock (and if you can stomach the price) I would love to see you review an 86' auto parts box car from Tangent Scale Models. Absolutely massive bits of kit.

[@DH-co6dj]

I have a similar length American flatbed which i use for testing curves

[@CymruRails]

Hope you’re doing well Sam! I just booked my tickets for Warley

[@SamsTrains]

Hope you are too my friend - that's awesome, hopefully see you there! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@williamtown4058]

Those wagons turned that 08 from a mighty beast to a bighty meast.

[@ronnronn55]

Watching the 08 spin it's wheels trying to move the cars around the curves was worth the humour! Ronn

[@physiocrat7143]

For comparison a BR mark 1 is 64 feet and a mark 3 is 75 feet. The 800 series are 85 feet but the latest ones for Midland Main Line are a bit shorter

[@user-xh3lz9xt4l]

As my Bachmann A4 has trouble on my 2nd radius curves so I doubt the only way these will negotiate my curves is with added weight and possibly check rails to keep them on the track

[@wceyuki]

You should try getting a model of an 86 footer Autorack, they're absolutely huge!

[@Taggart00]

Could you 3D print an even larger wagon?

[@timbervalleyproductions]

Fascinating vid sam, these are very long indeed! Shame they couldn't work properly though.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks my friend - yeah it's annoying isn't it?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@johnblair8146]

That 68 foot gondola would have an additional #8 vent valve mounted to the underframe, that's your additional detail on that car. Speaking of brakes, that "turning wheel" is called a brake wheel. It is used to operate the brakes on a car when there's no air present.

[@BringMayFlowers]

The only times you ever see a single locomotive on a North American Class I (where these would be used) is for local freights with a rake of less than 10 cars. I've seen (not personally, this happened in Illinois and I'm in Arizona) a three-locomotive rank hauling a single hopper car on the BNSF, including a not exactly weak B40-8W and an SD40-2. I'm sure even just a second locomotive (my GP9M is nearly 700 grams) would handle a good number of those gondolas.

[@tacticalcalebgaming7264]

Actually there’s one it’s like 86” long boxcar so it’s the largest but you should try that with SD40-2 or something like that

[@gerardburton3741]

Hi Sam, One thing to remember as you say is that they are H0. If they were 00 they would be even bigger.

[@Simon-Davis]

I believe Walthers recommend a minimum radius of 2ft radius for these (610mm), Athearn have similar sized freight cars which are recommended at 22 inch radius. I think with these you're OK at 22 inch radius, but you also need near billiard table level track. Fourth radius falls just below this so I think a combination of tight curves along with running on the floor being less optimal is a bit of a kiss of death for reliable operation with these longer vehicles. You can modify the chassis a bit to increase clearance but you'll very soon also find the coupler mount to be in the way as well. If you think those mill gondolas are big, for a laugh I think you should look at the TOFC flats and Autoracks, both being 89 footers plus change. I had to redesign the entry to a passing loop as those monsters wouldn't negotiate a 36 inch radius reverse curve...though I'll admit a gradient change just before the reverse curve is probably the killer!

[@jensenleblanc]

Hi Sam. These cars are rated at 22” minimum radius and 24” recommended. Luckily as others have stated you only really see 1-2 of these in a consist at a time! I have many U.S. passenger cars that have a minimum of 22” radius and a recommended of 24-26” radius. My new layout will most likely have 30” + radius to ensure I can run any cars or locos that I fancy! Cheers Sam hope you are well!

[@SamsTrains]

Interesting - can you provide a source that states these as the minimum for these specific models? I tried these on 22 inch radius curves, and got issues - so unless mine are faulty, they aren't compatible with 22" or 18" curves, Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@muir8009]

​​@@SamsTrains ​@SamsTrains Couldn't find one for walthers: the following is for the athearn 52' gondola, seems to be with either the walthers mainline or trainline minimum radius seems to be fairly reclusive. Tbh, I have a feeling that if you're hauling with, say, an E44C you're going to have that minimum radius covered by the locomotive 33” solid nickel silver wheels with RP25 contours operate on all popular brands of track Body mounted McHenry operating scale knuckle couplers Window packaging for easy viewing plus interior plastic blister safely holds the model for convenient storage Replacement parts available Minimum radius: 18” But I have a feeling the minimum radius is a fairly arbitrary and generic statement. I had a BLI T1 with a minimum radius of 24" but if there was a way to derail it would

[@WWIIREBEL]

i have these and had that issue. I went and installed 1flat fiber washer to each truck/bogie and now no issues.

[@platformten5958]

Hi Sam. As you said, great detail but oh what a shame about the drag issue. All my British coal and mineral wagons I have filled with the appropriate ballast but can you imagine the strain on even the most powerful loco if you were to fill them by putting coal or minerals into these wagons. You would have to fill them with foam first and then spread artificial coal or minerals along the top of the foam and seal it using watered down PVA. Also, I would replace all of the wheels and axles even if it meant employing some form of 'jiggery pokery' method. Ciao, Paul. 👍❤

[@tiddles4x4]

Running 86 foot auto parts boxcars with no problems. Minimum radius I use is 3rd.

[@lapiswake6583]

The BR mk3 and mk4 coaches are 75'6, so are considerably longer than these wagons (the gresley coach you showed should be 61'6). The HTA/IIA hoppers GBRf use for coal/biomass are only 58' long, but the huge KUA flask carriers Accurascale have done are a whopping 81'3 long. Especially as these will be H0, not 00. However, the smaller bogies with the pivot positioned closer to the ends would lead to greater overhang in the centre, and would mean the bogies have to turn further for the same curves, increasing the risk of the wheels making contact with the wagon frames and causing drag. This is a poor design, and Walthers should've compromised by either narrowing the bogie support or making cutouts for the wheels to turn into. But they're not unique, as the accurascale IIAs I have all needed some bit of detail removing from the underframe to allow the bogies to turn enough to run freely round corners.

[@streetfightinmanrs]

If Walthers sacrificed prototype accuracy to run on tight-radius curves, they would be a laughing stock. The design is not poor, as the actual train cars trucks were positioned in those areas. Most American rolling stock is produced to negotiate 18”/457mm curves, which is in-between 2nd (17.2”/438mm) and 3rd (19.8”/505mm) Radius. This minimum is to accommodate modelers entering the hobby and typically affects rolling stock sold in starter sets. For prototype and proto-freelance modeling of modern-era Locomotives and rolling stock (which typically have mainline locomotives longer than 60’ and cars 50’ or more in length in the consist) the recommended minimum radius for mainlines becomes 32”/812.8mm in order to keep a somewhat prototypical look and fit longer rolling stock such as the 87’ and 89’ Autorack boxcars. For hidden and compressed scenes, 24”/610mm known as a “conventional” radius can be used. Finally, the 18”/457.2mm radius is used for sharp curves on industrial sidings. Because of scale compression, the use of spiral easements and superelevation is recommended for curves in order to ensure the modern longer consists do not “string line” as they negotiate curves.

[@NWRJ_WStudios]

I have 1 question Sam. Does your hornby 2800 have a capacitor near the motor? Cheers Jasper & Willow

[@OragamiTobichi-bi6lh]

Those are some big ass wagons. Dang. My train is on its way and soon it will be here. Keep being awesome my friend. Ur the greatest friend I could ever have. Keep being the best. Trains are priority 1

[@SamsTrains]

haha awesome - really hope you enjoy your new train! Thanks so much for your kind words, Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@DENVERRIOGRANDEMAN21]

American freight cars baby

[@OwenBudd1]

I have a Walthers 50’6” Gondola (Item 74802) and I’ve had no problems whatever with it on tight, essentially train set level curves. Seems that three scale feet makes a difference for the smaller gondolas?

[@mariebcfhs9491]

Fixing these is incredibly easy. Buy a short 40ft boxcar with metal axles and good bogies, and then swap their bogies. The good bogies with metal axles would fix all of the gondola's problem and the shoddy bogies wouldn't be a problem on the short 40ft boxcar.

[@davidmolin8944]

Idk what’s more cursed, the 08 unable to pull the wagons or a peckett with knuckle couplings lol

[@truckerallikatuk]

Why not fit a couple of washers between the bogie and the body? That would lift the body up a bit to allow extra clearance.

[@Timothy_Barker]

Sam, you should try the rivarossie Heisler. It is worth the money. The detail is amazing, and the quality is top notch.

[@europacifictradersltd3717]

hi sam. nice finished wagons. instead of sanding the wheels i would spend a bit more and fit 2nd hand hornby coaches bogies.

[@BattleshipOrion]

Don't worry, the longer peice of non-articulated rolling stock is nearly 90ft long, with articulated, cars getting close to 200ft on the 40ft MAXI ___ cars, and 200ft+ without a load on the Schnable cars. With Walthers, though, you really wanna look at the screws holding the car to the wheel sets. They can be tightened a bit to much depending on the run, or lord forbid, the "wrong wheel size". I'd would have though the hint of general size would have given it's self up if you've been avoiding watching videos on our trains on KZbin, and based on your previous reviews, but you always seem to be in shock of true size & length. Just to put this into perspective, the Iowa class main battery gun (the mk7 16" .50 caliber gun) barrel is roughly 60ft long., meaning that gondola (that's what they're called here in the states) if it had it's ends removed could PROBABLY move the Iowa's, New Jersey's, Wisconsin/Kentucky's (Wisconsin's bow is that of the former USS Kentucky, which was gonna be the fifth Iowa class BB, followed by Illinois) , and Missouri's guns, or in non-naval terms, we can fit two M1A_Abrams(SEPv_), or other Allied contemporary or even SOME ww2 era tanks on ONE 60ft flatcar (though that car is specially designed for them though). Admittedly, we would probably still have trouble moving a Maus by rail...but Tiger's and Panther's...no problem.

[@SamBarr-cx5er]

You won't beat Kadee style couplings, Problem is Sam, that in the USA and Australia every railway enthusiast has a large layout in the basement and the smallest radius is probably 3 times larger than ours, so on their layouts the curves wouldn't pose a problem, Just a suggestion.

[@muir8009]

Really? That's an awfully broad and completely unsubstantiated assumption...

[@TrainsCatsOtherStories]

Me: (Reads title) Oh boy just be from Lionel. Also me: (Sees description) Wait WALTHERS?!

[@ROBERTNABORNEY-jx5il]

Are they weighted to NMRA RP-20.1 of 1 ounce plus 1/2 ounce for every inch of car length?

[@4everdc302]

Sam! Ya need to get some HO NSC 64 Ft 6400 CuFt Scrap and Trash Gondola from OVR🇨🇦 Best detail ever.

[@zippingcruises7712]

Wow, I might have to get these as my first American rolling stock as I am finally starting a railway, also just got my Hornby railroads Flying Scotsman, any tips or quirks I should know about.

[@garethparkin9498]

Could you not add a small washer under each bogey to raise it slightly?

[@corinheathcote9868]

HST coaches are 75' or 23m long and class 80x are 84' or 26m.

[@adriannash2705]

68’ is really big for you Sam? Man I can’t wait for you to see the 85’ American coaches XD Just a heads up I’m not sure what radius your tracks are but if you want to review the really long wagons coaches and engines you’ll want to get some track with a radius of at least 22” Edit: also if you don’t want to shave into the cross braces to make them easier to take on smaller curves you can either put some washers between the body and trucks or you can buy some trucks that sit a little higher than the ones that come with it

[@muir8009]

Remember they're roughly the same length as modern EU coaches so they won't really be anything surprising

[@adriannash2705]

@@muir8009really? I didn’t think they’d be as big now

[@muir8009]

​@@adriannash2705 ​@adriannash2705 the first real size bump was the DRG express coaches in '28 at 77' (although I'm meters of course!) And that ubiquitous icon of EU railways for half a century, the Y, was a metric 80 footer. In saying that, there's nothing like the sheer elegance of a twenties heavyweight open air observation on the back of a twentieth century limited. Even in tinplate :)

[@lukejackson8741]

A possible cheaper/easier fix is to put a spacer between the bogie and body, washer of some Kind, not sure how they’re connected to each other but maybe a simpler way of achieving a better result than hacking away

[@RailRide]

You ought to see these in O scale 🤣. I have five of these mill gondolas made by Lionel (considerably higher-end than their HO attempts). They're hilariously large next to even other scale-proportioned 'O' rolling stock. I don't know their minimum radius, but in the 3-rail O gauge world, even the biggest locomotives and rolling stock are engineered to negotiate 36" radius. We won't talk about the Atlas O 89' auto carriers...I bought five of those, 21 inches long and every bit of 1435 grams each.

[@muir8009]

Wow, those are hefty pieces. I've got some standard gauge state cars which are of course 21" (about 3 times the weight though) so I can thoroughly appreciate the size. I could add: bet the loco you haul them with does better than the 3 state cars a 381 could manage!

[@RailRide]

@@muir8009 I haven't filmed the AtlasO cars in operation yet, but on my channel I have several videos of 20+ car trains circling my living room. Because most of these were shot before i got command control, generally those trains with a single diesel (twin motored) and a dummy unit ran back-to-back, and if a particular train used multiple powered locomotives they were run elephant style. The one exception to the above is my Amtrak _Auto Train_ with which I retrofitted the dummy unit with twin power trucks and set it up to start-up in reverse so the consist could run back-to-back. That particular train needed four motors to run as its 21 cars weighed in at around 40 pounds.

[@muir8009]

​@@RailRide ​@RailRide cheers, I'll look forward to checking it out. I dally in a bit of the old standard gauge: horses for courses of course, my AF 4692 die cast Atlantic weighs in at about 23 lbs just for the loco and tender, having weight adds a realism all its own really. Lionel standard gauge turnouts have a locking mechanism so the points don't move as 40 lbs of standard gauge roars by with the 20th century limited lol 21 cars, that is a massive train in 0. Must be an enthralling sight

[@crazyjack3357]

An easy fix is add a little spacer between the truck assembly and the car

[@newlynnrailway]

Wheel flanges will be binding on the rails just before they jump the rails, Our 3rd radius is 21 inch must of the longer US rolling stock needs 22 minimum, I have dremelled some of my rolling stock to cope with smaller british Track Geometrty of 3rd radius. And big layout owners still buy cheaper wagons as your running 20 to 50 or 100 freight cars it takes a lot of £$s