Longplayer Conversation 2014: David Graeber and Brian Eno

[@ashwinra]

Rest in Power, David Graeber. This is such a weird interview. Love it.

[@soundsystem4351]

The book Graeber mentions at around 1:03:00 comes out later this year. I'm glad it's coming out but it hurts to know that we'll never see more work and inspiring intellectualism from this guy. Such a creative person.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

So true. Also, it's out now, the book, A History of Everything, I think it's called. I hope to read it one day. For now I'll just watch all these graeber yt videos. I never knew of David until I saw interviews with the coauthor of that book. After having seen the subjects of his talks, listened to a couple, and learned a few other things about him, so far, I'm surprised I wasnt familiar with his work already. It's outstanding, and right up my alley. It's so sad that he died suddenly

[@kingmu1]

Just finished reading it. It was excellent. David will be missed.

[@dodododatdatdat]

@@kingmu1 Me too! Stunning work.

[@Benjamin_556]

@@LukeMcGuireoides The correct title is "The Dawn of Everything" written with David Wengrow, for people who might be looking for it.

[@TwinTweaking]

I'd be so nervous to be Brian Eno's sound guy..

[@royloveday4350]

One of the best reflections I've had in response to problems of that kind was "I've 'Funked' up bigger jobs than this"

[@jakubkazimierz]

I don know what's going on by I watched a few speeches by Brian with fucked up sound. He always complains about it. I mean, I think that sound guy realized that there is feedback on mics and in panic is turning the knobs to fix it. there is no need to point it out by the speaker. I admire early Eno's work but believe that at one point he became a megalomaniac asshole.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

😂 I think you're right, jakub

[@jimmytumbles9640]

4:25 "there's a bit of feedback here, it's at about 1700 cycles (per second, pr hertz) ..." checking on a tone generator, it's about 1660-1670 Hz.... what a beautiful human.

[@jimmytumbles9640]

​@@jakubkazimierz you assume there's a sound person, that he's male, that he can hear what Brian hears, that Brian is "complaining" rather than just pointing it out (notably he doesn't say what you say, "fucked up sound"... he puts it more tactfully than you managed to)... You then call him an asshole... I'm hopeful whatever has put you in this nasty perspective improves. Cuz it certainly has nothing to do with Eno.

[@dickhamilton3517]

fuckit, the guy is dead before his time. we need more people like Graeber, happy to question anything and everything, and he's gone. We should have had him around for at least another 20 years

[@devwalks]

Helping front of house engineers pinpoint frequencies that are causing feedback during his interview = yet another reason why Brian Eno is a legend.

[@magnusbrockman9623]

No it does not ! Proves he’s an absolute twat. If he was serious about it he would employ his own FOH engineer. Spec mics,PA, rider etc. As any performer would.

[@jimilee4660]

David's story about his insight on time is something that happens to me all the time. I'll have some epiphany, and later find that there's a whole society or school of thought devoted to that very topic. Taking philosophy in college just gave a bibliography to the ideas that saturate our culture, which I had already mostly put together on my own.

[@Tokyofart]

This happened to me with Dave Hickey “pirates and farmers”

[@geoffreyharlow]

17:10 "...all the scientists are spending all their time assessing one another." Brilliant!

[@zetetick395]

To paraphrase a tabloid term "It's Peer Review *gone mad!!* "

[@sarahjett8417]

Peer review is a cancer- a video by eric weinstein

[@adityaranigaon]

Tbh it's wrong. His assumption that scientists have stopped inventing is wrong. Infact, if you compare most advanced development have happened in this decade. I believe it's sheer ignorance

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

Weinstein is a hack. Can you even imagine science without peer review?

[@aarongallant4280]

I come back to this every year or so. Lovely discussion

[@BeesWaxMinder]

I really REALLY know Eno but have never heard of David Graeber so looking forward to this!

[@instituteforexperimentalar7493]

DAVID GRAEBER was a founding member of the Institute for Experimental Arts He did a lecture with the title: How social and economic structure influences the Art World in the Financial Consequences - International MultiMedia Poetry Festival organized by the Institute for Experimental Arts supported by LSE Department of Anthropology. Influential anthropologist David Graeber, known for his 2011 volume Debt: The First 5000 Years speaks about the correlation between the cultural sphere and society. The intellectuals and the artists create an imaginary way to criticize the economic system in any era. Art can overcome hegemonic frameworks and acknowledge other possible worlds, offer us the opportunity to understand better the marginalized social entities. Social exclusion is the process in which individuals or people are systematically blocked from (or denied full access to) various rights, opportunities and resources that are normally available to members of a different group, and which are fundamental to social integration and observance of human rights within that particular group (e.g., housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process). As the economic crises go deeper in time more people face the effects of exclusion. Art and social sciences can give voice to the voiceless. Especially young social aware poets can give us a clear view of the real social effect of the financial consequences. - David Graeber You can watch the Lecture here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXSpXmuFhs9jiKc

[@nathanielhendrix9264]

I loved this talk. Its very reassuring when people discuss things in a way that resonates with me this deeply.

[@WilliamsGail1]

So enjoyed this discussion and as a retired teacher much of it resonated with me. Really interesting!

[@EclecticSceptic]

That was a great conversation, thank you for the upload. Also I had no idea Brian Eno was so politically aware.

[@aliecat1999]

I thought it was really weird when he wasnt acquainted with the scale argument about communism

[@xCorvus7x]

@@aliecat1999 Is this argument brought up during this discussion/conversation? If not, could you tell me what it is? I don't think I've been able to find it online.

[@aliecat1999]

@@xCorvus7x There's a section in the video (I havent seen it in years) where brian starts talking about how syndicalist communes work very well with a few dozen people, but that he doesnt think its possible to have a large scale society reminiscent of syndicalism (which is a kind of anarchist communism)

[@xCorvus7x]

@@aliecat1999 Thank you for coming back 🙏

[@jessica5497]

@@aliecat1999 well that he's opinion, and kind of makes sense. Not that i agree

[@albertakesson3164]

This is excellent! I love this conversation. Thanks for sharing!

[@SerikPoliasc]

Thompson Amy Johnson Ruth Lopez Timothy

[@SerikPoliasc]

Jones Frank Rodriguez Laura Robinson Frank

[@edgeeffect]

Pro tip: If you've got a really crappy sound system in your auditorium, don't ask a world famous record producer to be your speaker. ;)

[@Bledi838]

In USA Corruption is Legalized....it starts with Lobbying. 😂

[@Vampyrdanceclub]

sigh*

[@Amaterasu_990]

Charles Dickens, Hard Times ~ demonstrates the English schools and their goal to stamp out imagination :-) -- Amazing listening to two of my favourite intellectuals/artists/writers.

[@PeterHanson-nz6wu]

Rule number one, anything a Jew says, automatically disbelieve, (((Graeber))).,

[@Borabas]

I totally agree with the formulation by Brian Eno: “For every bullshit job there must be a bullshit education.” It is modern industrial education (which is typically poor in philosophy, ecology and fine arts) that produce for the state and corporate bureaucracy tamed technicians (like Adolf Eichmann) who don’t ask inconvenient questions about purpose and meaning.

[@Snugggg]

He says agricultural work has mostly gone away. There’s a bit more to that. The demand for labor during the harvest season is off the chart but planting and growing seasons is almost nonexistent. Farmers (owners) cry about no one wanting work anymore but then people still have to feed, cloth and shelter themselves for the other 3 seasons of the year too and they’re not willing to pay any more to cover the 3/4 of the year.

[@tonymccann1978]

7:02 when the stuff worth listening to starts

[@tonymccann1978]

Love Graeber, miss him fiercely. But Christ, the garbage spoken by the hangers on…dear me

[@yp77738yp77739]

The niggle is that many educators buy this message and no longer educate our children. They are then left being wonderfully creative but with their only skill being to play a banjo. It’s negligent as they still need to fit in the system and are left working in Starbucks.

[@rhqstudio4107]

Brian Eno seems officially a dick. But graeber ❤

[@hakikatyolureyahaqiqati]

David Graeber.... ❤‍🩹❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎👋🙏💐🌸🏵🌹🥀🌺🌻🌼🌷☀🌝🌞🌈💯

[@singingway]

I actually had a school tell me "if a peer mediation program is so necessary why aren't you offering this training for free?"

[@singingway]

It's not just that your job doesn't do something, it's that your job (and so many jobs) are furthering climate genocide.

[@patrickmccormack4318]

Steve Hughes on Jobs kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3qto6Z3fs2ie9E kzbin.info/www/bejne/h56ZnJ9nbK17b9U Note: Language is not for the faint of heart.

[@fluentpiffle]

Mystikus Mortikus.. It is not so much that truth/reality cannot be described, but that virtually no one has developed either the capacity or the will to see it.. Understanding the nature of reality renders 'mysticism' obsolete.. In the same way as autonomy renders 'government' obsolete.. Indoctrinated people just find it 'unthinkable'.. spaceandmotion

[@yodrewyt]

Graeber considers teaching, the biggest bullshit job in the universe, as a job that does something. Gee, how did he miss that?

[@TheNoblot]

It is possible you are addressing a problem with a logic that is perhaps outdated / meaning that how the realm evolves is no longer possible for most to understand it, possible a question of time and the technological environment where humans are now developing. India will not get anywhere by applying reasons & logic that are outdated. The cause can be described as a whale that has lost his way and ends up on a sea shore stuck on the sand. What happened to the whale is his guidance system that no longer detects the proper path to return to the north sea. the same phenomenon can take place on a human mind & he can end up stuck on a sea shore not understanding neither how it happened ²& why, unable to understand facts and reality the mind keeps applying solution to a problem that is no longer the same problem you are used to know & understand in such a situation, a chaos and a general collapse is unavoidable. for some reason unknown the current system that humans have existed by since 1913 no longer works and put you on the same position as the whale & there is nothing that anyone can do until something happens or an external help or event wakes up consciousness and helps it to reflect . in other words what you have learned no longer fits the reality of today / the result is from chaos to chaos until it is the last day. the cause of this fact could be the speed of technological development & the understanding and interactions these developments have done to society, in time & space the technological side creates facts & events that the current mind because of its education cannot imagine neither comprehend the result is the same as the whale stuck on the sand it was not the whales guiding devices but simply the magnetic field changed the whale is now lost and has no way to recuperate his usual path to the north sea. you can make an analogue with 70 AD and the collapse of the Roman Empire.🤑🤐🤔😉⌚⛓️📱🪐 however there are exceptions of the rule as always

[@paulkossak7761]

When Graeber said there is no corruption in the United States, we've legalized it all I had to laugh out loud.

[@cherrys7771]

Where's the lie?

[@paulkossak7761]

@cherrys7771 it's not a lie. I was laughing because he had the balls to say it out loud

[@obi-wankenobi8462]

They are just describing the world of the film “Brazil”

[@obi-wankenobi8462]

Ironically, Brian Eno has had such a great career because many many other artist’s careers were crushed. He was favored over others for many contracts. It’s not a coincidence that he’s wearing all black.

[@obi-wankenobi8462]

Brian eno doesn’t tolerate unwanted feedback

[@70galaxie]

Thomas Sowell, data driven, well thought out, productive, conversational, intelligent observation. w/ facts. Brilliant. Practically unknown; Noam Chomsky, a blithering, blathering idiot. Famous.

[@deejay8ch]

48:23 Brian outlines the playbook used for rona since March 2020

[@deejay8ch]

26:05 A seemingly endless 'exam system' (aka systematically weighing the pig) does indeed smack of conditioning to accept doing paperwork for the sake of it - BS work indoctrination

[@Bisquick]

This discussion reminds me of a Marx quote: _"A philosopher produces ideas, a poet poems, a clergyman sermons, a professor compendia and so on. A criminal produces crimes. If we take a closer look at the connection between this latter branch of production and society as a whole, we shall rid ourselves of many prejudices. The criminal produces not only crimes but also criminal law, and with this also the professor who gives lectures on criminal law and in addition to this the inevitable compendium in which this same professor throws his lectures onto the general market as “commodities”."_ - Marx, Theories of Surplus Value (1861) Unsurprising contemporary "polite society's" disdain for that guy of course. _"The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently."_ - the late great David Graeber.

[@Bisquick]

Graeber's consideration of Nietzsche's eternal recurrence concept has also been brought to more than theoretical relevance through Roger Penrose's "cyclical cosmology". Even intuitively I think this type of consideration makes vastly more sense than merely a linear determinate finite path (I think at least lol, idk maybe some will disagree...discuss!)

[@peteraleksandrovich5923]

It's funny that Graeber complains that people expect him to make the same speech over and over...and, indeed, his lectures are surprisingly uniform, down to the humorous anecdotes. I guess that's how one sells books.

[@alinebaruchi1936]

Ele entende nossa inadaptação.

[@onetwo3411]

Good chat, but are there any communes where the majority of people aren't collecting the dole / gaming the system, stealing, addicted to drugs etc.? Graeber makes for good listening and I think the fact that he doesn't seem to preach any solution is part of the appeal, but does he have any actual vision or idea of how things should be?

[@charlesnwarren]

If they were discussing sports, it would involve a talk on fantasy football. Instead, it's a talk on fantasy academics.

[@houstongalloway6380]

Could you imagine being on the sound board for Eno and getting repeated feedback squeals? I'm not normally intimidated or embarrassed but that situation would make me want to crawl into a hole.

[@FreerMasons]

Bullshit jobs comes from the marginal productivity of capital versus labor; reversing oikos and polis is why we don’t start with a mother, a teacher, or other caring occupations in service of developing people

[@borisbadinoff1291]

The world needs folks like David Graeber no doubt about it. Still three blindsides regarding the BS jobs pitch in no particular order: (1) Where do academics fit in the BS pyramid? Are they at the top of the Ponzi scheme, ie, relying on a pinch of the 70% of GDP generated by BS jobs? Or are they all serving a genuine purpose that should survive the demise of BS jobs? What would replace the current funding scheme? I agree that we did fine with a few top brains per century, eg, Socrates, Diogenes, Avicenna (Ibn Sina), Montaigne, Descartes, Kant, Nietzsche etc. (2) Sounds like a rich-man problem, and one that should resolve by itself in a few decades thanks to global warming. Future generations will be back plowing the earth, and one can assume that BS jobs will evaporate as we reach +4°. (3) Are the anecdotes about depressed lawyers and other professionals backed by actual quantitative research? If not, it should be done, but also include those with manual jobs that Graeber seems to file in the not-BS job category. Are they really fulfilled by their "real job"? What do they wish for their kids? Now, anybody knows a good plumber? It's kind of urgent. I'll swap for tutoring on Powerpoint slides or formating Word docs... :-)

[@kerryfry1857]

Imagine that people with this much intelligence were allowed to shape society. Oh.. boris johnson.

[@lbsaltzman]

Love seeing and hearing the late David Graeber but this patronizing British interviewer is way too fond of himself and barely lets Graeber talk.

[@MrHarveyrex23]

The covid pandemic revealed that 80% of the US workforce were considered NON ESSENTIAL

[@NoreenHoltzen]

It was very sad when David said at the end “we are going to have to figure out some way of getting together again”

[@WhenceRed]

ahead of the curve

[@annaclarafenyo8185]

The argument Graeber gives for recurrent universes is NOT due to Nietzsche, it is due to Poincare, and the recurrences are named "Poincare recurrences".

[@7kurisu]

Interesting talk but some problems here. In this look at history for a better way to organise ourselves than capitalism, they take small experiments in the margins that didn't work. Look no further than socialism. This grows from unions and people power, places control in a workers state which slowly transitions to a stateless society through careful economic and political actions. There are many such states to study and these would be of real benefit to the working class, not just an adventure for some academics

[@polarbianarchy3333]

The Hutterites' sound like their cultural memes are firmly based in evolutionary reality, over concerns of manipulating cultural symbols for status to survive. They simply have a different agenda that incentivises kinship partnerships to reach the mutual goal of health and well being for future human families. It is choice any group can make... Thank you David Graiber ❤

[@alinebaruchi1936]

Actually... we have a hypothesis about genetic ideology and looks Zionism may be a creation of aryan jesus and the eternal camp Very few jewish people are still alive... indigenous people status

[@alinebaruchi1936]

He died for truth... I am just heartbroken

[@torrentialrage]

Rest in power.

[@illadelagos8770]

David, us Apes are holding GME and workin on getting rid of those hedge fund managers that the world would be better without. R.I.P. my friend :)

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

What's gme?

[@illadelagos8770]

@@LukeMcGuireoides Gamestop

[@Stret173]

28:57 обожаю этих людей

[@carsonsauers9106]

Everyone loves to hate teachers and college, but they are condemning low information citizens to a lifelong loss of a million dollars and 9 years of life.

[@carsonsauers9106]

Do you think everyone should have a million more dollars and 9 more years of life? Great: then everyone needs to go to college of some kind or another. Go on: hate on teachers and give passes to the admin overlords now.

[@carsonsauers9106]

Graeber needs to credit Douglas Adams for his "B Fleet."

[@rleague685]

I had the same thought. "You're all a bunch of bloody loonies!", to quote Arthur Dent.

[@mborn]

omg yes. There tho the planet is wiped out by a disease contracted from a grimy phone, so ...

[@JussaraAlmeida2912]

What a truly brilliant mind! And what a loss for this world that David Graeber is no longer with us.

[@tigerstyle4505]

Very dope conversation all around. Feel like they could've gone on for days and it never would've gotten old lol. Just don't get how Eno wasn't familiar with the anarchist/ socialist/ communist/ syndicalist/ etc theory surrounding scale. It's long been a center piece of anti capitalist/ socialist theory and especially anarchist theory as it is not only for the workplace but the day to day management of a community. The numbers vary slightly but almost everything I've ever read (over the last ~20 yrs, much of which was written long before I was born) have numbers around 150, some as low as 120 and others as high as 200. We need more conversations like this.

[@theonlycaulfield]

Just goes to show most non-academics, even highly intelligent ones, don't spend their time thinking about political definitions.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

Definitions? I think they understand the definitions. He's talking about theory. The numbers in relation to what?

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

I mean, what numbers are those? Idk

[@eskoelmwood5936]

My daughter is in the 2nd grade (U.S. system), and they have started teaching her algebra. I don't have a problem with that except for the fact that she can't add or subtract large numbers yet, and she hasn't even been introduced to multiplication or division. It seems odd to skip multiplication and division to go strait to algebra when algebra relies on it so heavily. The purpose of this of course is to pass a test they are preparing for. She doesn't understand the foundations of mathematics, yet they want to go strait to algebra. What's next geometry? physics?

[@goodgood9955]

I started teaching my daughter algebra at 4 years. Algebra is a skill of relating numbers, large or small, to each other. It promotes non-linear thinking and introduces the concept of unknown quantities. I never taught her the times tables, but made her work out the answer from first principles just by knowing 3x3, 4x4 etc. She received the gold medal in the math Olympiad at her school, 10/10 in both tests!

[@ImprovingAbility]

I was completely tapping in the dark for the first 13 years of schooling, barely making it with lots of E minuses. Only at university, when we went through all of mathematics, I finally had a good maths teacher and understood and started scoring straight As in maths.

[@jorgegomez524]

the real purpose of education is to learn that you should learn what State says it matters

[@symbiotic_sim]

I think you’re all a bit right. I think kids are a lot more clever than we allow them to be. I don’t think examinations are healthy for them but I think the breath of information they can compute is immense and breaking it down in tiny chunks can actually be more confusing in the short and long term.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

I was the same way, improving. I dont think I had a decent math teacher until algebra 101 in college.

[@nikzanzev2402]

I am doing a masters degree in "administration" atm... I keep jokingly saying that it's only half a masters degree because its not a real masters. My classmates laugh because I try to be a jokester, but maybe inside, I've planted a seed of doubt, hahaha...

[@lutherdean6922]

fantastic discourse!

[@antigen4]

i think there are a few monty python sketches that address these topics (company executives with nothing to do)

[@dmdmorg]

We are being educated like the CCP. Made to task, no more. David will be sadly missed, but never lost.

[@rorystjohn999]

"feedback at 1700 cycles" - what a badass :)

[@marcocalarco7575]

+groomedtodie I disagree. I did audio visual for years. Feedback is a complicated process. Entire books have been written on the subject and the mathematical formulas that model feedback are quite involved. Even if somebody is riding the mixer (an operator) once the lecture starts it can be hard to control feedback and you don't want to start rearranging speakers and things because that's a bigger interruption. I had Ted Turner glare at me over feedback once. Not very fun. 20 mics were involved.

[@cwmoriarty]

I love Brian Eno with all of my heart, but this feedback is clearly at 800 cycles. I'll accept that he possibly heard the first harmonic, but that would be 1600.

[@legalfictionnaturalfact3969]

Marco, an experienced tech can handle it, and that's who they need on this job. The venue hosts this type of stuff a lot.

[@tommyjaybrownson725]

@@groomedtodie ahaha as a musician watching this it was so cathartic to hear him say that.. these kind of lectures/dialogues are always uploaded with such atrocious sound quality (this is one of the better ones I've seen lately). I've wondered if there's some way to run an EQ plugin on my output so that I can mix out resonances and clean up the signal a bit because it would take like 5 seconds and it's often so unnecessarily fatiguing

[@secretmeeting4886]

He's wrong though, the fundamental frequency that was feeding back here was around 800

[@LddStyx]

A thought I had regarding the scale of organisations is about layers. The obvious layers being the Individual, the Family, the Community, and the Government with intermediate layers like the Local Government and Bureaucracy. Any layer can have a different form of organisation or even the same in some cases. And the less layers there are the less power the people overall have. It seems that the society of most western nations is breaking down towards an Individual-Bureaucracy-Government model where everybody is alienated from everybody else and thus reducing the collective power of the citizens. An interesting conclusion is that the free movement of workers is anathema to democracy. Any economic instability or “market correction” that churns the populous around destroys the bonds of family and community ending up in a world where there are no neighbours, but only strangers living next to each other. And without communities there can be no rebellion, no change for the better and no democracy.

[@amandap9332]

Money does that to our society. We are hyper individualistic and divided because unhappy people buy more stuff. Theres more to it of course, more nuance. But, in the end, the root cause for ALL of this type of crap is money. Which is only one reason, among many, to end the monetary system entirely.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

The free movement of workers is anathema to democracy? How is that? Workers should be free to move

[@jonnymahony9402]

The point is, mutual aid between people is replaced by markets of corporations, selling everything to you.

[@SmallBizGeekUK]

So glad I found this. I wonder if Brian Eno and Seth Godin are aware of each other's philosophies?

[@simonbean3774]

Rest in power David

[@simonbean3774]

@Liquid Red K Childish

[@googleguy-ft8xh]

Holy shit what a combo

[@MrDirtybear]

From 12.36 is classic, one of the reasons I like Brian Eno is because he speaks in whole sentences and arguments that are clearly so well predigested that he reminds me of the late Alistair Cooke, of 'Letter from America' fame. Like Cook's radio broadcasts I don't always know where Eno is going with what he is saying until he gets there.....

[@Liz-zx4bt]

At 44:34, where DG says “non-bullshit jobs” :)

[@becaz2883]

In Educatio the key word i think is Competition. Competition is good in sport and in other aspects of life isnt. Stop trying to be good than the other and try to be good to the other.

[@CC3GROUNDZERO]

Are you familiar with Alfie Kohn? He writes about competition as an ideology, and sport in the media (especially large events like the Olympics) is a primary vehicle for that ideology. Even sport could be organized in cooperative ways rather than forcing people to compete, but that wouldn't meet the requirements for capitalist spectacle anymore than a friendly discussion instead of a Jerry-Springer-like talk show where everyone shouts at each other.

[@becaz2883]

Great!! He have many lectures... iam going to enjoy his lectures iam sure THANKS CHRIS

[@ashleigh3021]

chris Competition equals capitalism? How so? Does competition in anything not necessarily produce innovation?

[@ashleigh3021]

How does it "pick the carcus" exactly?

[@badfractal]

I think there's a lot to talk about WRT competition and schooling and I think it is indeed the key word. Competence would be a better word to replace it with, I think it would be better if rather than competing to learn things in a certain time frame, children and indeed adults were empowered to learn things that are relevant to them in a time scale to suit their needs

[@n1mbusmusic606]

they killed this incredible man. so deeply sad. one of our best guys!

[@artcenterjo]

how do you mean killed him?

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

I'm pretty sure he suddenly died of some health issue

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

His recent co author sure hasnt said anything about him getting killed

[@robertmoffat5149]

His wife says he died of covid.

[@YawnGod]

Fucking HILARIOUS. I was like, "What is an obscure antism"? I had to turn on CCs. My God. Fuck, I laughed.

[@10-AMPM-01]

40:52 Saying that we evolved to like sweet foods because it tastes nice, is circular logic. That's just saying it is because it is. It doesn't indicate maximum nutrition either; it indicates easy availability of sugars / starch that can be absorbed by the stomach, instead of the intestines.

[@mrsnoop1820]

can't have more production without having more consumption

[@RogerBarraud]

BS. Stuart Brand founded the Long Now Foundation - or @ least cofoumded it. Why no acknowledgement of that here?

[@suesimmons926]

Right On!! ... just like Alfie Kohn in "Punished by Rewards"

[@PatTurn]

Starts at 3:13

[@symbiotic_sim]

Please can anyone lmk what people Brian Eno is talking about in the last third I think ..... a society who would build a settlement away from the community once it reaches a certain population and then people were picked at random to go live there.

[@wecespedes]

The conversation was very good, that they are well read and have a heart for the public interest but both don't connect the dots that the very economy system is at the heart of the system failure and it is what reinforces the direction it takes. The drive to increase personal wealth without accountability to the public interest is enshrine in the phrase Profits before People and coined in Occupied Movements rising. I like a focus on and a discussion of the design of an economic system that rewards Profits above all else and what should replace it?

[@HotshotGTar]

Wilfredo Cespedes Why should anything replace it. Yet, you are right whenever there is a void something will rise to fill it. Maybe we are so used to living within a system that we feel lost without one. Isn't it the whole point of this discussion to free ourselves from conventional thinking and just going through the motions without questioning our environment ; dare I say our captivity ? . Confinement contentment : We've become "institutionalized" as mentioned in "The Shawshank Redemption" ; we can't tolerate freedom. You see ; nothing would replace it. We would replace it ; we would 'be' it. That's all there is ; that may just be all there needs to be.

[@dudeman5303]

They are both anarchists. They definitely already know and understand that conclusion that you claim they don't.

[@mateenabbasi9856]

RIP

[@leninsyngel]

Anybody that can point me in the direction of the Gregory Miller article Eno talks about? About virtualization. Just around the masturbation punchline :)

[@leninsyngel]

If anybody else is interested, I think it would be this short article: static1.squarespace.com/static/58e2a71bf7e0ab3ba886cea3/t/58e949b2d482e94e7fcc3996/1491683764266/2007+fermi+paradox+edge+piece.pdf

[@cheekymonkey3929]

He knows Eno ♥️

[@marcocalarco7575]

Wrong Brian (1:00:17) anonymity makes the internet great and honest. People wouldn't share lots of odd experiences and unpopular positions without internet anonymity.

[@marcocalarco7575]

***** I disagree.

[@mungojelly]

+marco calarco I'm not sure exactly which era/technology he was talking about, but often what we had in the early days of BBSing and Usenet and so forth was accountable pseudonymity, which seems to me to provide a good balance. You have to build credibility to be heard, and then you have something to lose (without that something having to be your real identity, which can give too much power especially over vulnerable people).

[@marcocalarco7575]

mungojelly You can add links so others can verify your information and you don't need to surf on a good reputation. If it's not your real identity then it's anonymous. Are we actually arguing something?

[@mungojelly]

marco calarco Without some sort of stability to people's identity, though, there's-- well, what 4chan calls "the cancer." Spam, trolls, pedophiles, fascists, various ways of communicating that take more than they give. To improve the quality of communication you have to have some sort of filters (reductio: or else I will post literally 1000 completely random things every second and drown out all else), and to have any sort of coherent filter you must have some sort of stable identity (reductio: or else I will evade the filter by spoofing the identity of someone trusted). And no, we're not just arguing, I think we largely agree! I was trying to mostly agree while adding some nuance to some points! Geez, I guess that does feel out of place, we don't do that much here do we. :/ Which perhaps is a reflection of the degree of effective anonymity we have here (I'm someone in particular, but not anyone you have any particular reason to care about) providing not enough context or incentive to express where we agree. A thread where five people who have an identity known to you say they agree with you feels great-- yay, those five people who I know and I'll see them around again like my idea!-- but a thread where five random people from the internet say they agree with you is just a waste of time, because of course there's five random people somewhere on the internet who'll agree with anything.

[@marcocalarco7575]

mungojelly If I say that the boston bombing suspect is innocent and I did many hours of internet detective work to come to that conclusion (for example) I care not if 100 people disagree with me. I should be confidence in my research and common sense, which I am and do believe the former. I'd don't care about reputation and thumbs up, that's petty. Present best facts of your case and let chips fall where they may.

[@thantsintun9759]

Unless you understand related condition effect that make people more greedy and never escape from it.

[@patchadams4439]

David Graeber at 1:02:09, 1:06:52 1:10:17

[@philipritson8821]

Stay to the end, growth rates slowed down under neoliberalism

[@davidwilkie9551]

The Universe is finite, because the continuous creation connection cause-effect is Infinity/Eternity e-Pi-i sync-duration, total internal reflection, "There's only one Universe" that is this real-time Event. The Long Now Holographic Principle. Because 1-0 probability dominant resonance reciprocals is theabove fact, "When the Student is ready, the Master will appear". Or "No pain no Gain". So is this why we live in a world of painful Liars? Every individual is a unique quantization in uniqueness, ie innately self-defining and compelled to be part of decisions by democratic necessity, if they actually think about what, how and why they are a particular self in Self collectively. Fermi's Paradox.., especially the Time Travelling version or "where is everyone?", and can at last combine the Observation, "I Am you and you are me" here-now-forever, in fact-continuity. Smart, Clever and Intelligent, are not one idea in the spectrum of Artificial Actual Intelligence. Manufacturing Insecurity with Nukes is the ultimate Insanity, implies the reciprocal Master who turns them into Nuclear Power.. "Anarchism is Democracy without the (false, misrepresentative) Government".? Maybe no one is a true representative of themselves to each other. Not predictable or not even wrong. That is a good illustration of how Legal Systems are federalism of dishonourable disrespect, (of collective social contracts), and utterly shameless prostitutes of empirical laws, ie have a dispassionate pecuniary interest. Yes

[@featheredmusic]

How would anyone not know about the Fermi paradox.

[@forbesfoofighters]

The Fermi paradox is so common sensical it doesn’t even need mention really

[@dmdmorg]

In my neighbourhood everyone knows old Fermi, it's imperial measurements that stump me. What what what!

[@audiogrouch]

who would host Brian Eno and not have the decency to hire a professional audio engineer?????

[@zmix]

I was wondering if anyone had counted the number of times David Graeber said "Um" in this conversation?

[@uttaradit2]

Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@joshuaklein2859]

567 times

[@jjthompson4752]

do they not realize that both their jobs are pointless? many contadictions which, although i agree with, their ideas seem so self entitled. social anthropology is the biggest example. David Graeber. that is a "job" which basically lets people have no real existence to go and judge other peoples existence so they can then go and define how others exist. that is pointless. I do hope he reads this and reflects. the more this conversation goes on it fucks me right off. do they not just think, actually, ive never gone and done these jobs which do have a point, therefore i am doing a pointless job....ie making music and writing books

[@jjthompson4752]

I love brian eno btw. makes good music

[@josephlancaster7997]

How come Economics professors never become 'rich' ?? Irony ??

[@robertmoffat5149]

That is not true. They make twice as much as most poets. 🤣

[@okafka5446]

Keynes