Look Blade RS - Another SL7 Clone?

[@Adi-ok3rg]

Absolutely love this channel! Your videos are always so honest and informative! Love it!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you so much!

[@philc9305]

I've always been more comfortable slaming the seat forward on a slightly bigger frame. I'm glad to see a bike manufacturer make a bike designed for this. For me it makes sense. More aero comfort and better ability to deliver more power.

[@shakestr]

I'd have to agree. I'm 6ft tall but ride a 60cm Time Ulteam rxr. Slammed the seat forward and reduced the stem length to 60mm, and I can get really aero with it in that configuration🤙

[@barriem5318]

I still have a Look KG481SL with Dura ace 9 spd and it's a stunning machine. Rides like a dream and beautiful to look at. Fantastic build quality on Look bikes too.

[@ramsden35]

They all look beautiful to me! Love your insight.

[@Robert-mn8gc]

Gr8 Tutalage on the Look Frame . Thx 4 sharing. Robert Australia 🇦🇺

[@Mapdec]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Onigure]

The geo and angles are translated well in a size XS. Small people issues. 😅

[@Zozas_The_Cyclist]

What you mean by that? I'm considering getting an xs frame. I'm 166 cm tall

[@thegoodwheel]

Great overview and commentary on the importance of getting the rider into the right position for performance👍🏾

[@gokaygs]

That is proper road race bike geometry! I ride a 74 degree seat tube and 73.5 head angle, I love the handling so so much that I will specifically be looking for these angles on my future road bikes. I appreciate the benchmark Look (and Time) brands set for manufacturing quality and accuracy, however I am not convinced if it is actually ideal to have the same seat tube angle across all sizes of the range as well as only 2 fork geometries for 5 different size options, to me it seems to like the brand is aiming for a sweet spot between broadly hitting already proven race geometry numbers and cost reduction. Most other manufacturers are doing similar things nowadays. I'm comparing this approach with the 2014-2019 era, which imo was peak performance for road bikes, for one example Specialized was partnering with McLaren to tune their carbon fiber layups, had slightly different geometry for S-Works and Specialized Tarmac models, different tube sizes across all frame sizes and 5 different fork geometries for 6 frame size options!!!! Specialized stopped doing most of this variation with Sl6 and even more with Sl7. There is only one reason for less geometrical variety across sizes : Cost Reduction.

[@dhalbrook]

Really love the look of it (pun intended), but US pricing for the frameset is $5900. Yes, that includes the seatpost and handlebars, but that's really pushing it. Though I guess now that I look at it, an S-Works SL7 is $5500 without the bar, so maybe it's not as crazy as I first thought? I just wish it were more affordable.

[@Mapdec]

Don’t we all.

[@82vitt]

They aren't popular bikes though, so usually end of a season there will be massive price discounts.

[@peters8504]

Wow impressive. I really like my new Optimum 765 and this looks like another great frame. Would definitely consider it if I were on the market for a racing bike.

[@arweldavies2541]

Looks good. Hope they will have narrow bar option on larger sizes.

[@mathewrose2951]

You're 100% right about Corima tubulars being both a blessing and a curse. I've got a set on my Bianchi, and I bought a set of Roval clinchers that are deeper and more useable as everyday wheels. Living outside of the US/Europe, its a struggle to get Vittoria tubulars and find someone to install them. But, they're still amazing to ride if you have the opportunity.

[@qibble455]

I'm a huge fan of Look's RS frames, I like the 2023 Blade a lot but given the choice I'd take the previous version of the 795 and finish it with Sram and Winspace. Tbh either one would be perfect for me:D

[@richardvickers8739]

Following your channel for the RS build as I'm looking at a possible purchase to replace my beloved dogma F12. Great content, found your commentary very insightful.

[@Mapdec]

Thank you. Frames and bikes on order.

[@glennmcfarlane5513]

The hard part would be choosing a frame colour. All look great. I really like the red chrome satin and the Blue Thunder satin but the Pro Team Matt Black/glossy looks fantastic with the top tube blue-white-yellow-red.

[@82vitt]

The best paint scheme was the Mondrian'esque one. Not available off the shelf though, but I know people who managed to buy an unpainted frame sets in the past and had them sprayed in a custom colour. Not sure how that was arranged though and definitely a pricey option as respraying a whole carbon fibre frame set is close to £1000 in the UK now.

[@markharrison6120]

Equal assist for forward position on look was the adjustable crank length on the zed set to its shortest 170mm in case of 56cm. Forward position within cranks still promotes a closed hip angle. (Have been on Look since 2010 amongst others) 👍

[@richardconway6119]

Nice one I invested in their crowdfunding a year or so ago and watch with interest at their development. This gives us emails about how they are doing. The first disc brake frames are being sent out and they state they have a range of bikes to try. Good luck with getting hold of one.

[@themindgarage8938]

Great video, very interesting look at the geometry. I currently ride a Rose Pro SL (just arbitrarily picked it as one of the cheapest decent Shimano 105 bikes at the time) which also seems to have a similar thing going on with a 74.25deg seat angle in my size. I'm a big fan of the Rose's geometry and it seems the Look is basically the same but 20mm lower stack. Shame it'll probably be too expensive to justify the price difference vs a Propel or something similar

[@ska042]

The seat tube angle seems really sensible to me. Currently on a Canyon Aeroad with a 73.5 degree seat tube angle, and I have the seat pretty much as far forward as you can get. I flipped the saddle attachment to make the seat tube zero setback, and on top of that the saddle is fairly far forward in it's adjustment range. A 74.5 degree seat tube would allow that kind of setup without maxing everything out adjustment-wise. Reach on the Aeroad is 3mm longer, Stack is 7mm lower. I still have 12.5mm of spacers under the stem currently which I could reduce with the Blade's geometry, sounds absolutely perfect to me.

[@Mapdec]

You got it 👍

[@jonathanhowson6420]

At 36 and being keen on mtbs for about 25 years (which is scary to think about) I have settled with Specialized and Santa Cruz. As long as you pick the right model you cant go wrong and the are backed up with a lifetime warranty. The other brands I would seriously consider are Atherton, and also Curtis for a super cool steel hardtail, while also supporting British manufacturing.

[@davidcarino6500]

The old looks had Lemond/Hinult geometry 56 cm ST angle was 72.5 degrees.

[@Robert-mn8gc]

Trust the French 2 go all out . Both " LOOK & TIME BIKES " are just Sensational. With the Time Construction most possibly the Premier Construction Method of all bike manufacturers

[@qibble455]

I think the Blades look slightly better overall, But Time's frames are cooler or more desirable because of the way they're made.

[@ariffau]

2:46 do you know Trek Madone H2 has a taller stack? Orbea Orca and Elves Falath Evo do this too. They are about +20 stack across sizes.

[@scottwatson7844]

Been a fan of both Look and Time bikes ever since seeing them in the Tour de France when I was a kid. I'm actually tempted by the 765 my only issue is I like my endurance bikes to be on the racier side and from what you've said it doesn't sound like its a good fit at least not for me.

[@Mapdec]

The 765 is a fast cruiser. It doesn’t really launch an attack or rail a 90° bend, but it is steady in a straight line and a pleasure to ride all day long.

[@enigma1000]

@@Mapdecso if the 795 is too racer and the 765 is too endurance is there something good in between? Look or Time?

[@Mapdec]

@@enigma1000 the Time AdH and the look 785. Classic geo.

[@enigma1000]

@@Mapdec Thanks. I’ll investigate.

[@scottwatson7844]

That’s my whole issue with the endurance sector as a lot of these brands think we want a do it all bike that’s comfy. I can’t talk for anyone else but for me I’d have a proper race bike if it wasn’t for the longer reach and lower stack heights.

[@garysladek9110]

I'm listening to everything you are saying, but I was only looking at your bike behind you. So nice. That bike would make me want to go out and ride. Cheers.

[@Mapdec]

I do love it. Unless you mean the green gravel frame in the distance. 🤷‍♂️

[@garysladek9110]

@Mapdec Sorry, I meant the Look.

[@StanEby1]

Brilliant!😊

[@sspan1]

Well the 13.5mm setback on the included seatpost creates an effective seat angle equal to a bike with 73.4 degrees and a zero setback post. At my seat height of 73.5 cm.

[@Mapdec]

Nice.

[@ianparkes5097]

You are right in that none of the reviews I have seen have mentioned the slightly unusual seat tube angle. I've been delighted to find your channel as it's one of the few I've seen that attempts to demystify frame geometry. Most reviewers seem, like me, to have left that in the too-hard basket. However a few reviewers have noted the result of the steeper seat tube angle: that is a short reach which pops them more upright - the opposite of more aero. I noted some also thought stack height needed addressing for racier/aero performance so immediately got rid of the spacers to drop them down. If you also have to fit a longer stem to get long and low, wouldn't that make the steering a bit slower, robbing some of the agility? However I love that Look is trying something different - and I appreciate the stability that weight over the front wheel confers, after I was advised to shift my setup forwards to cure an unnerving wobble on descents on my old steel bike.

[@Mapdec]

Interesting. I haven’t seen any ride reviews yet. I am guessing they have a demo bike delivered with a stack of spacers and they are discovering that they don’t need them.

[@scotth3354]

Reach is not affected by seat tube angle, as it is measured from the vertical line through the BB forward to the headset. Changes in seat tube angle affect the amount of top tube that is behind that vertical line, which isn't included in the reach measurement. Assuming you position your saddle relative to the BB, as you should, changes in seat tube angle affect the point where the seat post attaches to the saddle rails, but that's all, unless your proper position for the saddle falls outside the limits of adjustment afforded by the rails.

[@Mapdec]

This dude is referring to perceived reach rather than what a fitter would call reach. In that a reviewer felt it was short. Oh. And who said you should for it to be proper? Saddle position is determined by purpose and by rider mobility

[@davekashuba4730]

Look is the only bike manufacturer with graphics that I actually like! Not obnoxious - just classy.

[@feedbackzaloop]

That's because vampires always opt for a classy stylish look. Have to be conservative when you don't appear in mirrors

[@qibble455]

Agreed 100% The tcr for example is a real let down, finish wise imo.

[@Mapdec]

I wish i understood this comment

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@Mapdec Team Cofidis is vampires, simple as that. Just google it🤷‍♂️

[@StreamBikesNL]

You said 'look' so many times (verbs and nouns) LOL. Interesting analysis of this beautiful frame and the features geometry wise. I am wondering how this seat tube angle affects rider fit in terms of seat position over BB. A steeper angle will influence this and position riders much more closely to the centre of the bottom bracket which could lead to knee problems. I do like the fact that it will have the rider sit more forward and like this about bikes myself too, as it makes me feel more connected to the front wheel/steering, and would be interested to see how it will handle in combination with the wheel base. Thanks!

[@phil_d]

@Mapdec Paul. I'm not sure I understand all the hype behind a steeper seat tube; let me explain. I have a Cannondale Carbon Disc, 2017 size 48. My seat tube angle 74.9 degrees, whereas a larger 56 has an angle of 73.5, but does that make a difference? I view the bottom bracket as a fixed datum and then you tune you seat position to be bio-mechanically optimum for your lower body (and then from there look at your reach). In my case, I have a seat post with a 25mm seat back but have to run the saddle at its most rearward. Before I got a bike fit, I was falling onto the front of the bike as I was too far forward over the cranks. Now, if the bike had a 73.5 degree seat angle, all I would do is adjust the saddle position forward (I may need a zero setback seat post) so my bum contact point is back in the same position in relation to the crank. And as reach is measured again from the crank, my reach wouldn't be effected. Or, have I missed something? Just to note, I ran 155mm cranks to prevent too much knee flexion as I have limited mobility. I know crank length can change your seat to crank position but should as long as this stays constant, it shouldn't make a difference.

[@Mapdec]

Trying to answer without it being a long post. You can go forward of knee to pedal line. A lot further forward. Look at squat, pistol squat position. See TT positions. Remember this is a bike made for aerodynamics, and as such the rider and bike system needs to be aerodynamic as a whole. Like a TT bike. As I said in the vid this is a clever way to help the rider be aero. If you try and lower your position on a 73° bike you end up with very restricted hips. Also. In size Smalls you are essentially in this position anyway except for that fact that the stack is always too high. There are 4 dimensions to bike fit. Biomechanics, perceived comfort, handling, aerodynamics. Most bike fitters only consider 1 or 2 of these.

[@phil_d]

@@Mapdec Thanks! Maybe a future video?

[@neilk22]

The large giant propel is more of a 58cm, where the ML is more of 56cm (same as other bikes compared here), the comparison should align closer. I don’t like the d-post seat tube/post of the new propel, the previous aero shape was way stiffer and you could feel it in the response of the bike. (I think the same happened when the venge rebranded to the tarmac). A stiff seat tube and advanced seat position is very complimentary to the average weekend warrior.

[@TheKryztiandivor]

@Mapdec bikes are now coming with threaded bbs. Question: Are threaded bbs inherently aligned/round/correctly sized? Pressfit bbs one can be wiffled (made bigger within specs) and alignment issue can be well compensated with one piece bb (like Hambini). If threaded on has flaws, what can be done?

[@Mapdec]

Depends. If the threaded insert is one piece and perpendicular than we only need to face surface. Sometimes a threaded insert can be 2 pieces and wonky af

[@siberianfastfood]

I understood „Protein-Black“ all the time, until I finally got that it is ProTeam 😀 Ordered the bike last week and cannot wait to get it.

[@dylangrantz8124]

Yeah smart design really. I have been doing things for years to help hip angle in spite of design lik 0 set back seat posts, shorter cranks, and seats slammed all the way forward. Anything you can do to get above the bottom bracket more helps angle. The older I get the more help is needed. The market for crazy high end bikes is certainly a older group of people. It is smart really.

[@bakabakashit]

I really like your way of breaking down bike frames! i was curious if you can give your thoughts on a trek madone slr

[@Mapdec]

I think I just did that a little bit in this vid.

[@stevemahoney1733]

i've owned a 386, 585, 586 & a 595 Look. I was brand loyal (other than my Time Worldstar) until I had a warranty frame replacement from the distributor which decided to ship me whatever frame colour they had in stock. I refused it & Look France informed me that I didn't have a choice, they had honoured the warranty. I pushed back, to no avail & finally told the marketing rep that at every opportunity from this moment on I will tell everyone who listens to be weary of Look products because of their warranty practices. My point, if the distributor had a hot pink with lime green painted frameset, they could ship it to me with no recourse. Look did honour the replacement frameset within 1 month & only a little pushback. This happened in 2010 & i suspect partially because of the distrubution from France. Maybe today Look does things with a customer satisfaction focus, but certainly not then. The only Look product I use today are the cleats for my Assiamo pedals

[@Mapdec]

Always tricky situation. Did they give you the option of waiting until another option was in stock?

[@stevemahoney1733]

@@Mapdec No option offered. In fact i taped a letter on the top tube of the broken frame asking if I could upgrade to the higher frameset (586-595) & pay the difference. Marketing rep asked if i read the warranty before purchase as it clearly stated 'frameset replacement of equal value & available colour"....who ever reads the warranty before purchase?

[@truthseeker8483]

@@stevemahoney1733 That is pretty bad of Look. What happened to the original frame?

[@stevemahoney1733]

@@truthseeker8483 I found 2 cracks, one on each side of the wishbone- where the chainstays / seat tube / bb meet. Look makes some nice frames, I'm not suggesting otherwise, (I've had 4) There's a long post on RBR regarding this warranty issue, evcen Look USA scratched their heads. When you spend close to 4000.00 with taxes on a frameset & get dismissed because the company already has your money,.....finding a frameset in the colour I purchased or working with me to upgrade would have been customer service. What I got was something far less & disrespectful. So, I've been keeping my word to that customer service rep. Buyer beware, "objects may change colour after a warranty replacement" Look did replace the frameset within a month which is pretty damn good but I think the bike shop had quite a bit to do with that as well.

[@santaslt]

There are rumours that new Look frames are made in Asia, not at their plant in Tunisia. Where are new Look 795 Blade RS is made? Because this is important, how quality frames are and quality control is ensured - no one wants to hassle with aftersales warranty.

[@Mapdec]

I will look into this.

[@JFomo]

Great video today. As an owner of a Tarmac SL7, that Look Blade RS looks sweet! Thank you for not spitting out a video about some china alibaba bike like every other youtube channel lately.

[@Mapdec]

I’m all about the reshoring skills and craftsmanship.

[@JFomo]

@@Mapdec ...and it just won a TDF stage win. What a bike!

[@Mapdec]

Epic breakaway sprint. It must have felt like his legs had left his body.

[@stuart8872]

Very similar geometry to the Kinesis Aithein

[@rejean2744]

gorgeous bikes .

[@atgnicyclist]

Can you find out if they are doing a 0 setback/inline seatpost please? They’ve hit the nail on the head with the seat tube angle but without an inline seatpost they’ve undone all their good work. Also, what’s the narrowest handlebars they’ll be making available as I’m currently on 34/36cm (mainly due to very narrow shoulders) and they are so comfy. If aftermarket bars/stems can be fitted this may well take over Colnago as my favourite brand and be my next frame. Well done with the videos, love them 👍🏻

That Monoblade :o

[@gm.m]

It’s a great bike, especially in the limited Iconic livery. Can’t find the info online, are there 0° setback seat posts? And 5400 euros for the frame set is over than 2000 more expensive that old one…. Kind of outrageous.

[@Mapdec]

That includes the handlebar and stem, making it slightly less outrageous. Weirdly the full build Ultegra is less than a Giant Propel 😳

[@gm.m]

@@MapdecGiant don’t spec the new Propel Pro with Ultegra in Germany, the one with Rival (cheapest in house carbon wheels and alloy components) costs the 300 euros more than 795 RS frameset. Upgrade to ultegra would be 1000 euros max? A 795 RS build up with R8100 would still be significantly more expensive in my country. Is there any information for dealers like you on the 0 setback seatposts?

[@gm.m]

@@Mapdec and talking about the handlebars, it looks great but lack customization, under 40cm width only for smaller sizes goes against the race ready aero concept of this bike.

[@Mapdec]

@@gm.m the seatpost design is still a bit cloudy.

[@Mapdec]

As dealers we can swap these out

[@davidoliver4567]

Paul, as usual your videos are so enjoyable and informative. I love getting educated. I keep concluding that 765 Optimum would be the best selection for me (LOL after all I am 70 haha) but part of me wants a completely internal cable routing (I will be using SRAM or Di2), any options in Look or any recommendations, Deda or the like?? Thx heaps and all the best to you and yours.

[@Mapdec]

Umm. I would have to really think about it. You could do it, but I think you would then create a weird looking join from handlebar to stem

[@stanislavkindiakov6334]

Steep seat tube means your body is more forward leaning, increasing pressure on your hands, isn‘t it? In TT bikes it is solved by leaning of elbows on TT handlebar, but in road there is no escape from nimble hands. What do I miss?

[@Mapdec]

To keep it brief, a core and the need to be low and aero.

[@framue]

One the one hand I can follow your logic from a pure geometry view point, that a steeper seat tube angle allows you to bring the saddle and therefore your position closer to the handlebars ie. reducing the effective reach. On the other hand, my understanding of common bike fitting wisdom is that one would fit the backend first ie. saddle height, angle and setback (relative to BB) and if there would a “right” setback for a given rider physiology all a steeper (or slacker) seat tube angle would result in is more (or less) absolute physical setback within the saddle clamp. All that will accomplish that more rides require non-zero setback seat posts. But I might be wrong. And all of this doesn’t change that fact that this is a awesome bike with great detail. Cheers, Frank

[@mitchellsteindler]

Exactly, changing the seat tube angle doesn't affect the fit whatsoever.

[@Mapdec]

You are right. This is common rule of thumb bike fit practice. However. It is good to take the knee further over the pedal axle. Think TT position, squat position, etc. On a classic geo bike though this would lighten the rear wheel and load up the front. Remember the purpose of this fit is to reduce frontal area. Too many bike fitters forget that their actions also affect weight distribution and handling. Make something comfy but twitchy and nerve wracking then the position will become uncomfortable as the rider tenses and resists

[@mitchellsteindler]

@Mapdec damn idk how I manage to ride my caad12 🙃. You're just suckin looks D. That being said it is my new dream bike because it looks primooooo

[@MaxLoopTV]

I have a Look 695, wouldn't trade it for any other road bikes but great analysis on this one

[@jevgeniardassov]

I was looking at a Look gravel frame a couple of years ago but the local dealer could not be bothered to deal with me, they just never replied to two of my inquiries, I could not say LOOK is a pricey choice, at least the frames, it was at the time only 550.- more expensive for a frame than my Ribble and actually was my first choice, at least Ribble replies to mails… ✌️

[@barryherron5351]

I have to say the look frames look amazing, a bit unsure about treks new madone frame design, for me a bike should be 2 triangles for maximum frame strength and stiffness. What do you think?

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. The dropped stays I can kinda get my head round, the big hole in the frame seems like they were just trying to make it look like a Lambo.

[@brucelittle1137]

I changed the seatpost on my 595 this winter to a R5. It changed the whole bike. Feel like I'm riding a new bike.

[@bugraaaaaaaa]

Geometry is important, i need to know the reach of the handlebars. 75mm reach on handlebars in small frame with 100mm stem would be my bike.

[@jondashun]

If it wasn’t for the Corima wheels, the preconfigured options look good at first glance. Are the Look and Corima brands owned by the same company? Also, I don’t understand why they still equip bikes and the expensive frame set option in M/L with 42 cm and XL with 44 cm wide handlebars. And it seems to me that the stem is only compatible with Look’s bar. There should be the option to choose handlebar width and a seat post without setback since this also looks integrated, i.e. proprietary. Otherwise a lovely bike. I love the ‘thunder blue satin’ paint job.

[@chrisbayliss8862]

Hi, have you got any follow up videos on this Look going into a bit more detail or have you ridden one yet? Thanks Chris

[@Mapdec]

Yes. We did a first look at the frameset quality. I have been riding one for a week now. Big review hitting this weekend hopefully

[@chrisbayliss8862]

@Mapdec ok brilliant. I will look forward to it. Great work by the way. Only come across your videos last week when I was told about the look. Couldn't find anything until I came across your video's. You have some great content. Thanks

[@Mapdec]

@@chrisbayliss8862 thank you.

[@StopTheRot]

I feel torn. I’d like to buy this bike but over 20 years of riding I’ve realised that getting the saddle a little further back takes a load of weight off the hands and arms. It’s really quite significant. I’m assuming the steep seat tube wrecks this concept?

[@Mapdec]

If you play out the angles and biomechanics of that it will make sense. Moving the saddle back will make your hip angle more acute. It puts more emphasis on hamstrings and quads as you push forward on the pedals. This forces you to engage core more and support torso, therefore reducing weight on hands. A saddle forward position will open hip and engage a more glute and quad pedal action pushing down on the pedals. You would typically combine this with a lower handlebar height to reduce drag. You can train your core to be strong in this position, but it is perhaps not as natural.

[@aljaliah6868]

There is only one colour for this; MONDRIAN ! Soon LOOK will celebrate 40 years of association with this famous art !

[@stevemahoney1733]

While that paint scheme took some time to grow on me, it did . Though I must admit at the start it looked like a child ate a box of crayons and threw up.

[@aljaliah6868]

@@stevemahoney1733 La Vie Claire 1980s...............................the most famous and popular cycling jersey in the sport's history !

[@pierrex3226]

Do we know where the frames are made?

[@Mapdec]

Tunisia

[@pierrex3226]

@@Mapdec that's very interesting, isn't it? Given how prevalent the Chinese market is for frames, the fact they use ex colonies instead is really different. And so you don't see Chinese OEM copies of look bikes. I've never ridden a look, but they have that thing that is truly different.

[@Mapdec]

They have always been outside the box, less so these days. Some of their older models are insane. One piece cranks, 65mm BB. Brakes built into the fork legs.

[@luisdiaz6409]

It is look 795 RS confortable to long rides? I have a 795 aerolight. What is the differences in geometry between these bike. Thank you.

[@Mapdec]

Hey. We have a longer vid on this. As for comfort. That will depend on you. A flexible and fit pro rider will ride this all day everyday on a pro tour.

[@wfrx4783]

I talked to my LBS about having a bike built on a Look frame, they said they have had disproportionately more warranty cases and issues with Look frames than any other brand and would recommend I go with a different frame. I really like the look (heh) of this frame. I wish they had a white version. Wondering if they'll update the 785 Huez some time soon as well, or if they get rid of the aero/climbing distinction like Specialized with the SL7. What do you think about the Corima wheels? I really like the look of non-standard spokes like the MCCs and afaik they're pretty good when it comes to warranty and repairability.

[@Mapdec]

Interesting. I still have customers riding looks from the 2000s. One of their old seat post designs was a bit dodgy, but you can still get spares. A little bird has assured me that the 785 is getting updated. I think they still need a classic geo bike for all occasions. Corima wheels are excellent, just impractical, like many others are becoming.

[@jimwilliams2239]

Another really interesting video - many thanks. Sorry to hijack the comments on this video, but do you have any thoughts on the Handsling range - the A1R0evo looks very nice, and I'm all for supporting UK manufacturers.

[@Mapdec]

Hey Jim. We did a vid on handsling a while back. They are …. Ok.

[@jimwilliams2239]

@@Mapdec - Ah, thanks. I've missed that one so I'll make a point to check it out.

[@jimwilliams2239]

@@Mapdec I found your video on the Handsling Gravel build. You seemed to love it...

[@terrywalker7127]

I have sent a question is your web site asking your opinion of the Fast-forward 180 Raw wheelset and got no response so I will ask if here.

[@Mapdec]

We don’t tend to reply to opinion questions at the workshop. It’s a sales line really. I haven’t tested the Raw, but at that price point there are a lot of options and a rider would navigate the very specifics most relavent to them. In contrast the Ryot is a benchmark quality item at a reasonable price and suits a big majority of riders. Once you venture into premium wheelset the performance nuances become very subtle and specific.

[@terrywalker7127]

How is the quality of the bottom bracket? Is it round?

[@Mapdec]

It’s a threaded T47 internal. Beautifully faced. We did a follow up with an actual frame in our hands. It’s stunning quality.

[@Hexsense]

Cannondale SuperSix size 44-54 have slack HTA+ long fork offset resulting in long wheel base, yet 58mm trail value as well. What new here is that. Look do it on all the sizes while Cannondale do it only on size 44-54.

[@Mapdec]

Small frames often become very different bikes to those advertised. Good spot.

[@10ktube]

Do we know sizes offered for the cockpit, and is it fully customizable or are we stuck with a 42cm bar in a size L for example? Can I get a long stem narrow bar? I'm anxious to see more.

[@Mapdec]

Stem is 80-130mm bars I’m still a bit unsure of

[@hoLLyGhost54]

is the new look frameset worth to buy it over a old frameset knowing there is a 2400 euro difference?

[@Mapdec]

I haven’t ridden it yet to know. Maybe September I will get one. The new one is is a fair bit lighter and the handlebar set up is even more intergrated. I do love the design lines of the old one though.

[@peakinearly_2788]

Love the bike and what look is doing in terms of quality. Although I don't think that the steep seat tube is a good thing for most riders. It puts to more weight in front of the bike and can cause numb hands.

[@Mapdec]

It’s not a ‘most riders’ bike. It’s an aero race bike. Like I said to benefit from being aero the rider needs to be a part of that system. This geo will help the rider be lower and reduce the requirement for core strength and mobility more so than the Madone and Propel do. Or rather, if a rider does have good core and mobility they are going to get really low! Have you seen the extreme stems the Cofidis riders are using? Hope that helps

[@kalanihines]

Seems pretty cool. Where is the frame made? I know they say “in France” but seems a little vague as to what exactly is made in France and what is just designed there. Seems to have taken a lot of design from winspace. But different in the right ways. So, wonder if it’s made there. Which is ok. Those seem to be pretty well made. Or, it’s made by Time perhaps? Or none of that and it’s from Somewhere else entirely…

[@Mapdec]

Tunisia

[@kalanihines]

@@Mapdec Oh, ok. Didn’t Time recently move their business there as well? I’m currently on a Scylon. Best bike I ever rode. Before that my favorite was a Look 595. This new Look is pretty cool. They’re always coming up with interesting ideas.

[@Mapdec]

Time are in Slovakia and soon North Carolina

[@kalanihines]

@@Mapdec Right! I hope US yanks don’t mess up the frames that come out of NC!!

[@kehlew0160]

Interesting overview. Thanks. I love Look and own one. But seriously, i can never find them to buy these days. And their website is rubbish in that regard. I want a 765 Gravel RS frame (M) for my missus and Im just whistling dixie. Live in Aus BTW...

[@Mapdec]

I know. We are not even listed as a dealer yet! Give us a call if you are UK bassed.

[@kehlew0160]

Not UK based, but I have family there. Good idea. Thanks.

[@richardconway6119]

you ever looked at REAP bikes?

[@Mapdec]

I’m trying. I have been in contact with them, but they don’t have a spare demo bike right now.

[@YaniofWigan]

Time Alp du heuz or the new Look frame?

[@Mapdec]

Depends how fast you ride.

[@saltycycling]

What do you think about the 12-speed mechanical 105 that people found and then Shimano denied it existed? LOL

[@Mapdec]

i'll worry about it when I see it.

[@matejzima8210]

reasonable prices? Not in my book, but yeah, it's up to everyone's taste.. 5390€ for a frameset and top bike is 13K€

[@aljaliah6868]

Where do I sign ?

[@Mapdec]

Less than an S-Works

[@aljaliah6868]

@@Mapdec 30% + less , right ?

[@invisiblescout6335]

​@@Mapdecand s-works prices are reasonable?

[@chrismeyer9990]

I can simulate that steep seat angle by slamming my saddle forward on any bike, but all that does is ruin my position to the pedals. On that Look I'd need a seatpost with a lot of setback, and would end up with a regular long bike. So what am I missing?

[@Mapdec]

Ruin your position on the pedals? This would only be an issue if you suffers poor ankle mobility.

[@joelv4495]

On that note, there’s also the UCI saddle to bb measurement if that matters.

[@J-tu3hw]

A bike fit.

[@Mapdec]

Oh. Very true.

[@chrismeyer9990]

@@Mapdec I am sitting well nice on my bike after years of riding and a bike fit, with the saddle where it is now on a 73° seattube. Moving the saddle it 3 cm forward, like when using a 74.5° seat tube, will make pedaling uncomfortable for me over time and less smooth. So where is the win? I'd have to shove the saddle further back on that look and end up with the same geometry.

[@paulbloomer6022]

Frame only pricing will be almost £5K The Ultegra bike build is going to cost around £8600

[@Mapdec]

Almost spot on. I published the prices on a community post yesterday. Cheaper than a Propel SL

[@oliverleibbrandt8067]

So from what I understand this bike is better for stronger and taller riders , not to say shorter people can’t ride this but its optimal for tall riders

[@Mapdec]

How did you get to that conclusion? Actually for smaller riders the geo remains pretty balanced and the head angle doesn’t go excessively slack to maintain trail. It’s not perfect, but it is better than most.

[@bromasi]

Who are they designing these bikes for?

[@Mapdec]

Racers, ‘competitive’ sportive riders, KOM hunters, riders that enjoy going fast.

[@stevemahoney1733]

Same as always, dentists & lawyers

[@bromasi]

@@Mapdec I gave up racing long time ago, still love taking my steel Masi downhill fast I can, even at age 95.

[@invisiblescout6335]

The pro peloton

[@nigelwood6242]

Likeing the look of them 🤦

[@paliman]

Nope, it's a 2012 bmc tmr01 clone.

[@scotth3354]

C'mon, you've been at this long enough to know that within some very broad parameters, seat tube angle is meaningless. A one degree steeper seat tube angle doesn't put your saddle more forward, it allows you to put it more forward if you want to, and even then, only slightly more forward. If you really want to move the saddle forward, go to a seatpost with less rear offset. So long as you weren't previously at the limit of rear placement of your saddle, moving to a steeper seat tube only changes where it's attached to the saddle rails. The saddle is positioned relative to the BB, not the top of the seat post, when setting up a proper fit.

[@Mapdec]

Within some finer parameters seat angle is far from meaningless. Hip rotation baby.

[@scotth3354]

@@Mapdec nonsense. change the angle, you change where the seat post attaches to the seat, up until you've reached the limits of the saddle rails. Then and only then does it matter. Otherwise, just slide the saddle forward a little and up a little and you've accomplished with the same seat tube angle what you think you're accomplishing by changing the angle. For the seat tube angle to be the determinant of fore/aft saddle position, the saddle would have to be fixed to the seat post, but it's not. You accomplish far more in terms of hip rotation by just moving the saddle. There's a reason why frame geometry and fit are discussed in terms of stack and reach, because these are based on a fixed point (the BB).

[@trroland1248]

I am the slowest component on my bike. Also, the heaviest. 😢

[@paulwebster4499]

I have an argon18 nitrogen, I hate the cable management and can't afford sram wireless. I brought the bike because Argon readily admits that they use Eddy Merckx frameset geometry on their framesets. The geometry is sorted comments

[@Mapdec]

Nice. I think you have the answer. Endurance bike = Endurance Geo Race Bike = Race Geo Aero Bike = Aero Geo You choose an aero bike to go faster and everything that goes with that. You choose a race bike to race, shoulder to shoulder, turn by turn. Horses for courses and all that.

[@zedddddful]

My eyeballs say yes my wallet says no 😂

[@gasken2182]

I had a first Gen 795 blade. Was awful. Oversized BB that creaked no matter what I tried. Headset kept coming loose (even with the warranty replaced second Gen steerer tube expander). First and last Look bike. Shame as this one is quite pretty

[@Mapdec]

The one with the BB65?

[@gasken2182]

@@Mapdec 386EVO bottom bracket

[@TheNationalTrails]

"Lump of drag"... LOL. Just pedal people. :-)

[@petersouthernboy6327]

You're a Look fan? Couldn't really tell... 😆

[@Mapdec]

I’m a quality and innovation fan.

[@NelsonSherry]

Driving your weight further forward is all good for a short ride, but rotating forward generally puts all kinds of extra load on your hands, neck and shoulders which sucks for longer rides AND, it forces a longer wheelbase to maintain stability and thus leads to a bit slower steering and more sluggish climbing. So no. I think you're kinda picking the good and ignoring the bad of this bike geometry. I hope I'm wrong. I also appreciate the irony of having a new road bike mimicking the steep seat tube and long top center of modern progressive mountain bike geometry. Probably not what I'd want in a road bike.

[@Mapdec]

Sure. I think I covered all of that. You will need some core strength to enjoy this bike. It’s not for everyone, it’s for riders who feel aerodynamics are limiting their speed. They have the 785 and the 765 for more classic and more endurance geometry.

[@invisiblescout6335]

The "bad" doesn't matter because this bike is made for guys who can ride your FTP while having a relaxed conversation. They are so functional they don't notice the "bad"

[@NelsonSherry]

@@invisiblescout6335 My FTP sure isn't what it used to be. But, over several decades of doing it, I've fit plenty of powerful competitive cyclists on bikes and never have I found a person that would benefit from a 74 degree seat angle on a road bike without aero bars. Track and mountain bikes are a different story.

[@NelsonSherry]

@@Mapdec I think it's safe to say that aerodynamics are limiting all of us. I'm interested in what you think of this bike after riding one for a while. I'd love a post season wrap-up. An aero position isn't aero if it doesn't support you well enough to stay in it continuously. And, who wants a bike with "relaxed geometry" that's only good for shorter rides because you can't relax on it? I kinda want to be proven wrong on this because it would be exciting if this geometry works (like it does on mountain bikes). But alas, at this point, I sure don't see this as a particularly good thing. Good luck.

[@Mapdec]

@@NelsonSherry relaxed geo? Anyway. How much TT fitting have you done? Aero fitting is the 4th dimension to compromise. The others being Biomechanics, Perceived Comfort, and handling. This bike has more of a bias to aero and handling, as it should for an aero / race centric design philosophy. We will see, but I think it is a wiser approach than the Madone and TCR that take classic 73/73 geo and just lower the stack height.

[@chrisbuttine6869]

Hope it will be crash worthy having been lightened even more than the 795 RS , which would “explode” in a crit crash - top tube shatter, seat and chain stays fracture and break off.

[@massaka17]

The caveat of very light + very stiff frames, they are also more brittle and cannot be dropped!

[@Mapdec]

Wow. U ok? What did look do, I bet they would be really interested to see that.

[@mikekelly1771]

They all look the same these days. Remember when you could see a silhouette and you knew straight away what brand or model it was? Like a signature. No more. Silhouette 20 modern frames and nobody would know what they are.

[@Mapdec]

I think we are entering a phase of design homogenisation for sure.

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

High modulous is crap they are just going the cheap route these days, it is more brittle.

[@Mapdec]

What’s your alternative?

[@serdiezv]

Another copy of the Teammachine*, just like the SL7 is

[@Mapdec]

Oh. You might be right there

[@Tarmaccyclocross]

Aero bikes look nice but for the average rider a complete waste of money unless you can go at over 30 mph constantly, mr lard arse down the street won’t gain anything. As for the 1x on the look bike probably one of the worst innovations on a road bike massive gap between sprockets which means most of the time you can’t find gear. I borrowed one once it tore the legs off me no smooth transition between the gears

[@Mapdec]

1x for the win. 😱

[@mitchellsteindler]

"Mainstream brands don't innovate" - shows madone. Not that it's a good innovation lol.

[@Mapdec]

The comment was in reference to geometry.

[@kalijasin]

“Looks like another specialized Sl7” the word for that: knock-off

[@invisiblescout6335]

TT bike looks like one of the worst in World Tour

[@Mapdec]

Worst?

[@invisiblescout6335]

@@Mapdec slowest, least aero

[@Penalist]

How can you tell?

[@invisiblescout6335]

@@Penalist shallow non-bayonet fork, didn't ever attempt to fair the wheels, shallow bottom junction, no custom integrated bottle holder, (like colnago or bmc), the downtube flare to accomodate a bottle is unneccessarily long, seatstays could be lower

[@truthseeker8483]

By the looks of it, the Look is Looker

[@josephreilman8527]

Funny how the 795 is a direct Madone wannabe. The Trek is better. New blade rs looks amazing though

[@Mapdec]

How so?

[@josephreilman8527]

On the old model look at how the seatstays meet the top tube. Couldn't use isospeed for obvious reasons but they could still disappate some vibration through the top tube.

[@Mapdec]

I think for an aero bike that vibration dissipation is very low down the list of design criteria.