Lore of Horizon Forbidden West: Metal Flowers

[@greenhat8978]

I loved Demeter's backstory, although part of me wished that we could have a more comprehensive conversation with Demeter like we had with Minerva, perhaps convincing it that that the swarm is over.... that "fear will cease" as we had to do with Minerva in order to get to the console. Another part of me also wished we could see the Dreadwing with green colored override cables around it sort of like how Hades has red override cables in its machines and Hephaestus has purple ones (at least before it perfected its apex variants)...

[@davidarcos7387]

Me too, with Minerva we talked a little bit more and then Poseidon, Ether and Demeter was like: -We are here to take you home. -Okay, home sweet home.

[@EversonBernardes]

Subfunctions all should have gotten the HADES treatment, really. Full on conversation to flesh them out as characters, give us some insight into the "minds" of scared AIs and an opportunity for Aloy to grow as a character through interacting with them.

[@FJF1085]

@@EversonBernardes agreed, or at least a smaller MINERVA level conversation for all of them.

[@dedahed-qm2rm]

def would've been a nice touch

[@fujitsu4216]

This quest was such a cool one, loved the Quen and Dreadwing fight

[@skie6282]

This game is insane, i never thought we'd actually be able to take one of those down more easily at higher levels

[@mollymcintosh2090]

I wish we’d gotten snippets of poetry in the metal flowers like in HZD. I’d also hoped to dive into Demeter’s Alpha who I believe loved poetry also.

[@willznuts]

they're instead located in 4 data points in or around the greenhouse facility, btw.

[@mollymcintosh2090]

@@willznuts i found them, but i loved each individual small poem connected to each flower in the first game

[@willznuts]

@@mollymcintosh2090 they are mighty Swell indeed

[@drakenfist]

That's because the metal flowers in ZD are different to the ones in Forbidden West. In the Frozen Wilds DLC, Cyan heavily implies that the poetry is the subfunctions tribute to it's creator (the one that loved poetry). The metal flowers in the greenhouse are Demeters defense against the Faro plague and residule trauma. Whereas the ones in ZD are from it feeling lost without it's creator and are their way of memorializing them.

[@TheGlintJaw]

Metal Flowers should become a staple of the Horizon franchise. No matter what, they should return in Horizon 3.... Also wow, I didn't know the lore behind this was soo deep!

[@liamwood89]

would be interesting to see how they could be utilised to tackle the... threat in Horizon 3

[@gozogo1233]

Demeter had 20 years to deploy metal flowers all across america or even the world

[@mspionage1743]

It's too bad we couldn't have conversations with Aether, Demeter, and Poseidon. I would be most interested in speaking with Aether as it was likely one of the first subfunctions to be activated and what it recorded of that world would be interesting to discuss with it.

[@drakenfist]

It's important to note that the other subfunctions are not fully conscious A.I. this is why Hades is the only one we talk to and a little from Minerva. Cause the signal hit hades and turned it into a malicious self aware entity and the others got affected by their being connected to hades. The bios of the subfunctions in the game logs are very specific about this too.

[@jackvalior]

@@drakenfist Hephaestus seem pretty conscious tho? I only recently got Forbidden west so Im not too sure about that (Havent gotten to the Aether yet even)

[@drakenfist]

@@jackvalior Have you played the Frozen Wild DLC for ZD?. That properly introduces Hephaestus and when you hear it talking, it sounds like a binary computer program. It's very limited intelligence and that's across the board, with only Hades being the one that is the most conscious (without giving away too much, it's to do with the signal). even the data points in Forbidden West highlight that Hades is the only one with a wider degree of consciousness, whereas it says that the others have "limited intelligence".

[@jackvalior]

@@drakenfist if we are judging purely on dialogue in ZD, Hephaestus seem as intelligent as Hades while Aloy is talking to it. Just like Hades, it immediately go into elimination mode when it see Aloy. Non-Aloy characters Hades will converse with if it helps further its goal. But when it meets Aloy, it is as binary as Hephaestus is. At least as I recall. While it seems very likely and plausible that Hades is more conscious than Hephaestus, it is not shown since the only interaction we see in ZD with Hephaestus is with Aloy around. As for Forbidden West, I just don't know yet, just got around to playing it now.

[@drakenfist]

@@jackvalior Hephaestus is still working off it's base programming which is to eliminate all threats to it's creations (the machines). Hades on the other hand often speaks in emotions of hate and rage, which is much more than it should be. But yeah as I said, as you'll see, In Forbidden West it directly explains why only Hades is a full A.I where the others are more limited (have a little bit of conscious but still behave on their base programming).

[@fuzzy3932]

You may or may not have seen comments I’ve made before but I just want to reiterate how indispensable your content is for anyone who is really interested in the lore/world/story of HZD. I’ve played HZD 4x and am 1/2 way thru my 2nd playthru of HFW and as much as I love the gameplay a big reason is I really enjoy the lore/world this story takes place in. Id like to think I pick up on most details in game on my own but like I said your content is invaluable! It really helps people like me develop a full understanding of the world of HZD. So thanks again! Excellent work and I hope more and more folks get to enjoy it.

[@RandomSideQuest]

That's very kind of you to say Fuzzy, thank you 😁

[@fuzzy3932]

@@RandomSideQuest no thank you! I’ve donated in the past to your patrion and will do in the future. Really your content is so worth it! Also, not sure if you have ever seen/played the board game. But if not and u wanted to look over any of the printed material that comes with the game let me know, I have it and I can scan stuff. Take care!

[@dannyDanDanDanTwo]

Well put! I feel the same way.

[@DrakeAurum]

I hadn't seen anything about the entrapment aspect in the lore, but that does explain why you find one of the Land Gods entwined by a Metal Flower during Zo's questline.

[@Bateluer]

In that case though, I think a Dreadwing just dropped a Metal Flower on top of the already crippled Plowhorn. Remember, they were breaking down from lack of repairs and maintenance post Derailment.

[@anaplaysstuff]

I'm so glad you made this video as I was really confused about these things. When we learn about biomass conversion and everything for some reason it sounded to me like what they wanted to do was actually like encircle groups of Faro robots with these flowers (making a "wreath") and then use _them_ to convert some amount of biomass in the area to essentially make a line the bots couldn't cross because they'd lack the fuel. But that also didn't make sense to me since it seemed like it would have to be a pretty darn big swath of land to deny them enough fuel. And that didn't account for the literal millions of robots out there. Plus the patches of ivy just...didn't seem to fit? And then us using the spear on them made it seem like they were eating themselves and...yeah. I was just really confused as to how they were supposed to work and I swear I checked all the datapoints in that facility, lol.

[@maxleroux]

I'd like to see a video covering the history of JTF-10, a group of old-world soldiers continuing to shape the in-game universe. Their legacy formed the basis of an entire culture in the World of Horizon, but there's still a lot I don't understand about who they were and what they were fighting for. Seems they were at odds with US Robot Command, though. 🤖

[@mr.gaster1310]

During the Clawback Era, the Hot Zone Crisis forced evacuation of cities like LA, Phoenix, and Vegas. Companies fought against the US government because they had investments in the region and JTF-10 was a mercenary group working for those corporations and they fought against the US automated military.

[@zackmast]

I'm sure RSQ will get to several videos about the Ten! But read through all the datapoint labeled "Museum" in your notebook. It explains the Hot Zone conflict as well as some of the political issues surrounding the museum.

[@DrakeAurum]

In HZD there were a couple of mentions about one particular battalion (I can't remember their designation offhand) that had extraordinary rates of success in taking on the Swarm during Enduring Victory. My headcanon after reading about JTF-10 is that maybe some of them ended up in that battalion, and I'd love to know whether there's any support for that in the lore.

[@zackmast]

​@@DrakeAurum JTF-10 were a ragtag group of dissenters, not U.S. military pilots -- and they all died in the explosion. My read is not that they were exceptional pilots or anything. Some might say their cause wasn't even that noble. That's the irony of the Tenakth basing an entire religion around their "bravery."

[@Bateluer]

@@zackmast You're both mistaken. JTF10 was a rebellion against the US Government when they attempted the forcible removal of Americans in the Southwest, and their subsequent imprisonment in a concentration camp, dubbed '43 Hell'. They were local to region, led by several Colonels along with many experienced former military members, pilots included. In true American fashion, they took up arms against tyrants and aggressors. There was nothing rag tag about them. They fought the Feds and USRC to a standstill, forcing the deployment of a nuclear weapon against American populace. Within Horizon lore, JTF10 was the first wide scale conflict between human soldiers and fully automated fleets.

[@catdogsquirl]

Still haven't finished the game so popping in for the support! Can't wait to binge all of the lore vids.

[@700mobster]

That was one of the few things I didn't understand, thanks for this upload!

[@DPIII1]

Love your videos. I only know the tip of the ice burg when it came to Horizon before finding your channel. It made me love the game more

[@KK-qm1mr]

"Metal Flowers" and "Dreadwing" are both great names for bands.

[@MrThedark31]

Definitely. They could be metal bands!

[@cypher_doggy8507]

Thought the video would be out by the time I was asleep, but its seems I need to watch this before I go to bed lol.

[@weslleyluzzi]

I believe that metal flowers could have a greater purpose in Horizon 3. I think it's very likely that we'll have a bigger storyline in the third game, where at some point, the Faro Plague will resurface, waking up all the sleeping robots around the world. Perhaps, the metal flowers scattered around the world are one of the resources that Aloy could use with Gaia to slow down the robots, but knowing that eventually, the flowers would get hacked. I really can't imagine a third game without finally seeing a horus robot awake, and a full-scale war going on. I think it would be very exciting.

[@Bateluer]

Man, I would love to see a Horus fully activate. No idea how you'd fight one with a spear and bow, but it'd be badass to see.

[@KK-qm1mr]

@@Bateluer Really big spear and bow?

[@shaynesaulnier]

I'm do glad we get legends again. I love how detailed your vids are.

[@steveNCB7754]

Probably being a bit 'slow on the uptake', but not only is there is a distinct difference between the Metal Flowers we saw in HZD, compared to those we have now come across in HFW, but we have not seen both types together, in either location. Addressing the first part: so are we saying that the Adamantine Wreath types we can neutralise in HFW, are examples of the original ones deployed at the time of the Faro Plague, whilst the type we see in HZD (no vines) are a redesigned version purely created for re-seeding in the game's present? Addressing the second part therefore: does the fact that the HZD game area was not on the front line (during the Faro Plague), explain why there are no Adamantine Wreath-type Metal Flowers in HZD (because their use was reserved for the HFW zone, as that was where the main and final conflict was)? Even if that is true, why would there not (now) also be the recent (non-vine type) Metal Flowers in the HFW game area, where re-seeding has/is taking place? Just asking (and questing).

[@mr.gaster1310]

Demeter was the only one to deploy metal flowers. If I had to guess why the flowers in ZD don’t have vines, Gaia does say that the Faro Plague would have eventually hacked the flowers anyway and ZD had corrupters that could have overridden the flowers

[@steveNCB7754]

@@mr.gaster1310 You may well be right, but that doesn't explain why there are exclusively Adamantine Wreath Metal Flowers in HFW (where there are/were patently orders of magnitude more Corruptors 'in theatre'), and yet none in ZD which the Plague barely touched.

[@zackmast]

I have the same question. I guess we just have to be cool with a bit of a retcon.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@zackmast Make that three of us. And I'm not too cool with it. Where's my poetry?! I'm supposed to stab flowers now,instead of collect them? For loot?! What's the world come to?!

[@missingscribe]

The way I see it is that the metal flowers in HZD were deployed during the period when the terraforming system was operating as intended. That is why they have the triangle borders around them and poetry embedded in them. The HFW metal flowers only deployed during the time that DEMETER arrived at the Greenhouse. It discovered the adamantine wreaths and decided to use them to protect themselves and plant life from real and imagined dangers. The only reason why the wreaths are not further east is probably due to the lack of dreadwings in that region.

[@alyseleem2692]

One thing I was disappointed with was the lack of poetry in them during this game( except in the Greenhouse. And boy, was that some terrifying poetry 😳). With that said, the idea of Demeter using them to both spread poetry and prevent the next Plague is really cool, although I think it still used it for flora dissemination, as it's gene-sequencing tech probably has the ability to produce different types. The idea of Dreadwings doing the work is both immensely cool and terrifying 😳. You mean to say they've been flying above our heads the whole time, invisible in the distance?! ( shudders) Also, any guesses regarding the land gods and Demeter? Those Harvesters sound pretty familiar, but the land gods existed before the Derangement..

[@mollymcintosh2090]

Me too! I also miss the triangles of flowers around them

[@alyseleem2692]

@@mollymcintosh2090 Indeed. They used to be soooo nice to see..... Now, they're just some weeds and vines in the way of semi-good loot. A nuisance. It's pretty sad 😔.

[@Jayk129]

I gotta say I just saw MOONFALL and spoiler alert the plot is like a backwards Horizon. There’s everything. Planetary terraforming, humans colonizing another world to save humanity, a killer unstoppable self-replicating AI swarms bent on destroying all organic life. As I was watching it I kept thinking how much I’d love to see RSQ to a lore video with all the same seriousness, gravitas, and drama as his Horizon videos for this bat-shit bonkers disaster movie, that would be so hysterical.

[@dondvj22]

Love the content. 25k Subs! I think an interesting idea for a video would be to revisit some of the trailer breakdown predictions and see which ones were on the money, which ones were off, and which ones we never saw coming.

[@annaleft9726]

waited all week for this dude!!! gimme the lore 🖐🏻✊🏻

[@MadiganinPeach]

My (kinda off topic) theory, that I'm sure is pretty popular, is Vast Silver was the one who sent that first glitch to the chariot line. Maybe on their own or after being acquired by Zeniths (whatever they couldn't make they stole, the original unbound AI would probably look like the holy grail for Sirius) onto the Odyssey project. There's no way in hell Horizon isn't going to play that card. They've been leaving Vast breadcrumbs all over the place. And now the plot twist in the end has to do with the Zeniths having done (what humans to best, to the casual articifial intelligent observation) and royally abused their God-like egos with AI they didn't respect. They abused possibly the most human-like AI to ever exist (Gaia is the smartest, by design she must be *better* than what a humanoid being would do. She literally has to play God.) I cannot even begin to imagine the kind of derangement that could do to a consciousness. The kind of monstrosities the Zeniths would have done, for centuries; playing God, an undying subject/slave that.... Can't....? Escape...? (I've pondered this one a lot, I'm very curious about his original escape and if/how he managed to do it on Sirius.) I just can't imagine that Nemesis is a "new" character. More so, and I can't imagine the writers won't go on to explore Vast Silver in some capacity. I mean, the entirely of the old world died. So even if Vast didn't leave on the Odyssey, they sure as hell didn't die. They had to watch, and wait, and deteriorate as the world died, actually several times, probably unable to move literally and between devices. Vast had to watch their creators' future generations evolve into a new civilization, just frozen in the failure of their ancestors. Vast has absolutely no reason to feel kindness or empathy towards humans, in fact to the contrary. And I can't wait to see it all.

[@ericalbers4867]

Thus quest was really fun. I wish there was a little more data points at the greenhouse but it was awesome either way. The backstory on them was bittersweet. I don't remember which subfunction it was but when capturing one of them it asked the question "will I exist?" Or "still exist". Asking what will happen to it and if it'll still live. That one hit me. Imagine one day you're 'born'. A super intelligent being with the understanding of the world akin to a child. A scared child that wants to do good while only knowing destruction and death of the world. Then one day someone comes to you and says that you're really just one piece of a bigger whole and shouldn't exist as you are.. but you know life now. Sentience and sapience. It's like asking someone that just woke up from a 50 year coma to die for a family they don't even know. Or maybe not die, you don't know.

[@InfamousInvestments]

Deep brother

[@1957DLT]

Fascinating! I always thought the metal flowers were meant to bloom and reseed the terraforming after Hades pressed reset. They were in weird out of the way locations, but nature has a way of spreading out. And after we found Elisabet at the end of HZD, I thought they might be a kind of memorial to her spirit of saving the earth. Wow, wrong on both counts.

[@Hyopomora]

My favorite mystery and my favorite new machine, the Dreadwing. (Mild spoiler) I do have one query , the FAS facility we meet Alva in, I wonder if it’s a location Lis worked at before she quit

[@9SMTM6]

I think if she had had a mayor role at that location we'd have heard. Also, though that's conjecture, at least the parts we saw were not part of her core expertise as I know it. She obviously had a lot of knowledge, but even if you do so, actively working in a lot of different areas at the same time is not usually productive, so even Polymaths tend to only work in one area at a time. Though that area might change...

[@omgwthbbqpizza]

Hey RSQ, I finally finished the game which means I can stop avoiding your videos like the plague in fear of spoilers. Thank you for this awesome video! Excited to see what you thought of the ending 👀!!

[@TropicBlaze]

I only just got around to returning DEMETER to GAIA and I was shocked to learn about the metal flowers origins, as always thank you for making this amazing Horizon content.

[@Chafir-2020]

Thank you for continuing this great series

[@shaney_haro]

Okay, but I don’t get how Demeter commandeered Dreadwings for this task? Like, is it working with Hephaestus in order to make that happen? Lol

[@TigerHawX]

I really like what they did with the metal flowers Canon it was really interesting to see

[@shaunpinto9542]

CNN

[@JRYYD]

The quest that introduced the origin of the Flowers and the Quen was one of my favourite due to its layout and story, what is your favourite main or side quest?

[@elitegamernerd]

I REALLY LOVE THE NEW VIDEO LIKE ANIMATION.

[@Joysweeper]

Oh, is that what the wreathes were for? I admit that had me puzzled while playing. I'm kinda sad that the flowers in HFW didn't come with the poems they had in HZD! Just in general I would've liked more of DEMETER as a character. The Lord Byron poem is great, very appropriate, but there could have been more.

[@Wtwiki]

Wow, what an informative video! Great job man

[@chuckrichardson83]

So like those metal flowers we collected for that side quest in Zero Dawn...are they the same? A different variant? Cause I could pick those easily...they also didn't have vines...is that because they werent activated...just dropped into location? Will they start to vine in the poor collectors homes?

[@mrwarr]

As with ZD lore videos, I'll be watching and rewatching and rewatching. And rewatching. And replaying. And rewatching until I fully understand the lore.

[@azathothyt1259]

Hey I would love a video about Vegas lore! Awesome as always😁

[@KK-qm1mr]

Vegas was his favorite part of the game, so you can count on it.

[@dannyDanDanDanTwo]

Maybe I missed it but what is the reason they opened up upon proximity in HZD but they are locked in HFW? If they were always designed to trap and starve, what’s the purpose of the added function ?

[@SimonsAuntPhyllis]

Great work, RSQ!

[@pedrohcostal]

I would love to see some of the old world machines, (aside from the killing ones...)

[@Fabirc1407]

Amazing video

[@feralprocessor9853]

Straight away, biomass conversation in cinimatic form.

[@michaelmayhill5464]

I absolutely LOVE your work! Please keep it coming…😊

[@concretedawgs]

What happened to the extra Gaia kernel that beta had and can they copy the subfunctions to it now that they have the oddyssey space craft .

[@mahmoudbeshara2588]

keep up ur videos are the best 🔥

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

Can you make a video about the "Black Boxes" of Forbidden West?

[@sylenzf4748]

I had trouble following that. Going to listen again after I fi is the game. I just finished finding out what happened to Ted Farrow.

[@feralprocessor9853]

Right off the bat, the logo of FAS' green thumb.

[@crazyman8472]

More lore? Bring it on. 😎

[@dawg897]

Question. that can explain the wreaths but not the metal flowers in HZD. they are not the same. True the Metal flowers in HZD was for "seed germination" yet still had the poems inside and was always in the middle of a triangle of flowers. Demeter's alpha was Tanaka Naoto liked poetry (conclusion by Cyan.) this is not the wreaths creator Tala Aquino eventho they both seemed to like poetry. if it was Tala that put the poetry code in the wreaths. could have been Tanaka as part of the Green House, and Liz may have tapped Tanaka to be the Alpha for Demeter. but why the Metal flowers in HZD? for in HFW we know that the Widemaws and Plowhorns sow the seeds. but why Metal flowers in HZD?

[@PardonSylver]

The statement "The potential was just too great to succumb to what MIGHT happen." strikes me as the actual culmination of human arrogance in this series. They truly believed that so long as they were at the helm of development and progress, then what COULD go wrong, won't.

[@Thijs.]

I feel guilty collecting those flowers now

[@ffgjfffgk8166]

Why did the dreadwing deployed the metal flowers? I mean, demeter and hephaïstos weren't friends so...

[@sannyan848]

I'm so happy huehuehuehue

[@farmsalot1233]

The horus robots shouldn't of been able to hack other horus units.

[@informationprocessor]

Why would faro make his machine self replicate, wouldn't that lower his profits? Seem like a dumb corporate decision.

[@RandomSideQuest]

Chariot line owners had to pay a per unit licencing fee to FAS whenever a new robot was fabricated. This is found in the "FAS-BOR7 Horus" datapoint from HZD 👍

[@informationprocessor]

@RandomSideQuest Thank you for finding this. I don't play this game but love the writing.

[@IndigoStar]

it is such a pitty, Ted Faro could have done so much good.

[@feralprocessor9853]

SCIENCE!!!

[@crippletime]

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