Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S3E08: The Price

[@TroyeMB]

Lore, I really wish you would stop apologizing for your segues and digressions -- they are fascinating and one of the things I love most about watching your ruminations... (and I seriously doubt I'm the only one...)

[@TheMarcHicks]

I'm with you on that. I expect segues & digressions from Lorerunner, its what I like so much about his ruminations.

[@rexremedy1733]

Yes, NAE! Never Apologise Ever! :-)

[@corssecurity]

Truth! I see overly cynical snide reviews who don't seem to like trek, and want to judge future tech speculation extrapolated from cutting edge 1990 tech, by 2020`s tech.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

Aye.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Your childhood game with the mineral bartering was adorable. :-)

[@sharkdentures3247]

Personally, I think your 'loot box' analogy was very apt. I too LOVED that scene between them. Mostly because (for me) Ral WAS pushing all of Riker's buttons & hitting him in his vulnerable spots. But when he mentioned Troi, Riker shocked him by reacting in a totally unexpected way. Why? Because even though he can "sense/read" Riker, he doesn't "KNOW" Riker!

[@kolpi01]

i chuckled a lot when geordi says he doesnt want to get stuck in the delta quadrant and data replies "there is a bright site, you will have me to talk to" :DD

[@LoreReloaded]

I don't feel like what we see across TNG-DS9-Voyager really matches up to your thoughts on the economy and only Earth being a Paradise. I do think the one point you make about finite travel is succinct and may be the crux of how the federation works. We have evidence, atleast from what I can see, to suggest the 4 member core worlds (Tellarite, Andoria, Earth, Vulcan) effectively want for nothing..and then secondary planets are the same way (betazed, etc).. However the further you get out, the less 'utopian' it is. This would suggest that utopia is based on that travel and trade you discuss. This would explain why Earth is Ground Zero.. and why the planets around it seem fine..but the closer you get to bajor, The DMZ, the klingon border..the romulan border..the less.. utopian it is. Really this seems like a great break down.. Is travel and the control of ships.. the real economy in the Federation?

[@Lorerunner]

What's funny is I just discussed this concept in a recent DS9 episode (Homefront, I think).

[@LoreReloaded]

@@Lorerunner Oh? I must have missed that one or didn't comment on it.. I'll go back. I generally watch all your stuff - well atleast these kinds of break downs.. The games and starwars can be hit and miss.

[@TheMarcHicks]

@@LoreReloaded Lorerunner records episodes far in advance of release, if I am not mistaken, so Homefront won't be out for ages. His next DS9 video is Fascination (insert groan here 😛).

[@paulscott2037]

I agree with Lore Reloaded up to a point. I mean when a world joins the federation it won't change over night. If it has a currency system in place like latinum or something else it will still use that currency. Particularly if it's on the fringes of federation space where it's primary trade is with non-federation worlds.

[@jackbates7467]

Just imagining Lore at the grocery store bartering. "What would you like to put these Onions towards?, as far as increasing priority"

[@mr51406]

My 2 cents... Or 2 hundredth of a Loonie... 🇨🇦: The no money thing is probably a Roddenberry box idea. My head-canon is that everyone has a minimum salary/allowance in credits. So no cash, but definitely still economics in the sense of planning of resources. I did hear on character say once “I used up all my month’s transporter credits...” It’s logical to have a credit system to make sure there is no abuse (“computer: 30 kg of chocolate truffles!”) but also reward extra effort, for a company to allocate and plan resources. And also prevent corruption. You don’t have to pay at Joseph Sisko’s restaurant, but a tip is nice and you should reserve. Dad doesn’t need to pay for his catfish, but he still counts the meals he served, and he can always give an extra to the fisher for something special. The subway is free but the transporter costs a credit because it uses more energy and to control demand. There can still entrepreneurship but it’s based on quality.

[@KneelB4Bacon]

24:51 _"She KNOWS that he's a Chocolate Sundae!"_ lol

[@JayTohab]

"And she still _wants_ that..."

[@nickokona6849]

I think you’ve just made a mistake. The federation doesn’t have no economy. It’s just a resource based economics as described by Jacques Fresco and the Venus Project. I completely agree on the scene where Riker puts Devanani in his place

[@TheMarcHicks]

If you check out The Trouble with Tribbles, you'll see there is mention of "Federation Credits". So my head canon is that Federation Citizens actually do receive Federation Credits in return for their services, which they can then spend on stuff not provided automatically-like housing, transport, health care & basic food. After all, what would be the point of running a Creole restaurant on 24th Century Earth if nobody had any money to speak of?

[@DylanMadd]

I’m so impressed at how you can list off the titles of episodes. I was just talking to myself, wondering aloud if anyone could rival my knowledge of this show. Very few people. And apparently you’re one of them. Um... congratulations. Thanks for the rewatch.

[@gingeroverseer9302]

I found the problem with binge watching television shows. I watched all of TNG but never got the chance to absorb the content. The opposite end of the bellcurve with you on "analysis mode" and me "along for the ride" something I found amusing but I distinctly recall the "real sundae" and "who's in charge of chairs" I recall the episode immediately. Regarding the sundae I speculated on the replicators capabilities and imagined what I might ask of one. You can order food that is similar in construction to the genuine article but isn't quite "real" but with specific instructions of course you can get what you want. I would likely try a medium rare steak with all its form but the flavor and texture of a chocolate cake. I like the idea that a member of the crew while capable and dedicated would find amusement in ordering food or drink that presents as on one thing but in consumption is entirely different. I also mused upon the idea that someone would go to the holodeck and say. Experience a rendition of the american frontier. The holodeck would generate a deer. The participant might track hunt and kill the deer.. skin the animal cure the meat cook the meat and... have replicated meat from a holodeck experience. But of course one could gain an enjoyment in more perverse forms of hunting... and indulge in rather unpleasant forms of killing and might go a little crazy. There were some very scary tangents star trek could have gone on with the holodeck I suppose lets be thankful the regular "holodeck malfunction" was as far as it went. I think Troi as a counselor of all people should understand the importance of self discipline but letting her hair down now and then. A chocolate fudge sundae or a fling would be perfectly reasonable. Thank you as always Lore.

[@najex1]

I will say that the first 'romance' scene between Troi and Rall was the first time, not counting clips of previously seen episodes, where I was just fast forwarding the episode.

[@Yura-Sensei]

I appreciate you being apologetic about delving super hardcore into economics ^.^

[@Norvo82]

Troi's actions in this episode and Betazoids not being able to "read" Ferengi is a bit iffy, but still explainable in canon. Lwaxana Troi said she can't read Ferengi minds (as in actual thoughts), but that doesn't mean emotions or intent can't be picked up.

[@kw6713a]

did she instead read what's his face, who was in on the scam?

[@harpercole5321]

Good video , this isn't an episode that stands out too much in my mind but it turns out to have some depths there. The trade storyline was the first of its kind in Star Trek, something more along the lines of a DS9 episode. Riker owning Ral was the standout scene. It's a three-dimensional character against a superficial one - no contest!

[@tubeviewerX20]

The two Ferengi in the shuttle looked pretty shocked to me.

[@corssecurity]

Officers only override the replicator. Crew gets synthahol and bland food. Officers get alcohol and sugar /fat. But conversely they must maintain blood sugar, cholesterol, weight, ‰ body fat, fitness, endurance. So that works out. Civilians? Purchase credits?

[@gallendugall8913]

I'll disagree about character growth. What we see in season three is the final iteration of these characters after two seasons where the characters were whatever the plot that week demanded of them. Not so much growth as establishment.

[@thexalon]

Regarding the motivation of the Barzhans for selling the wormhole, I don't view them as anywhere near as pure as they're portrayed: 1. They may know full well that what they're selling is in fact a lemon, e.g. they might have sent in a probe prior to the one they're telling everyone about that ended up somewhere else and decided to keep that a secret. Ral and Troi are both too distracted to pay much attention to Premier Bhavani organizing the sale. 2. The motivation for this conference rather than just talking to the Federation is obvious: Trying to force the price up. It's just like why auctions exist. 3. Premier Bhavani may well have become premier on promises of "I'm going to make Barzan prosperous again", and the reason she's after hard cash and resources is because she needs it to preserve her own political position.

[@trombaritone86]

I don't think he was all that genuine at the end, at least not long-term. One of the first things we see him do is send off whatever woman was on his arm because he saw something he wanted more in Troi (whether it was truly her, or the idea of winning her doesn't really matter in this case). He may even think that he has real feeling for her, but I don't see a reality where he doesn't cast Troi off for the next soft lens he encounters. He already showed her who he was, and she was willing to believe him.

[@josephpetrino1741]

"Serenity now!"

[@Eraser18574]

The only thing I can think about when thinking of this episode is....freaking footmassage!

[@warpcore8406]

I like chocolate, but not as much as I like PUMPERNICKEL!

[@DrownedInExile]

Please keep seguing into economics. I agree, Ral wasn't being genuine. He wanted to be the love 'em and leave 'em, but Troi flipped his script. Honestly even if he was being genuine, so what? You can't fix your partner. If they want fixing, they have to do it themselves.

[@athrunzala6919]

I had a rock collection too, didn't paint them though Threat of the week was the last minute change in the wormhole for Data and Geordi We won't get a Riker/Troi payoff until Nemesis, unless you count Peter David's "Imzadi" novels Have you read "Trekanomics" by Manu Saadia?, It's a good read, admit there is more he could have elaborated/theorized on "Rascals" is the only Lamentation candidate to come for the rest of the series I like Rals argument with Troi, "do you tell the Romulans your empathic?" got her good there. There is an ethical debate to be had about telepathy in society, it's not fair and you can't bluff them, if you knew you might be able to trick them if you had great control, but you have to know.

[@billiecruz4399]

How does it make sense that earth is post scarcity but additional citizens would ruin that? If the society already has so much that nobody goes unsupported what reason do you have to think that more people would hurt that?

[@resurrectedstarships]

That's adorable that you role played with rocks as a kid for this episode! I just watched this one again last night and fast forwarded through all the romance scenes since I thought homeboy was such a slimeball, and although you give the fling a pass, I would like to think that Troi would need a little more to be attracted to someone outside of those big blue obnoxious eyes.

[@clearmountain28]

They should join the Gorn Empire!

[@saphojuiced]

I *love* Gorn stars.

[@riodillinger7719]

Personally, I think Ral may have been semi-serious and probably hoping that having Deanna in his life would change him for the better, but I think he would have reverted back to his usual slime-ball behavior after some time. He seems really immature to me.

[@madalynnights4612]

If Starfleet has no currency, how can they obtain the Latinum to gamble with at Quark's?

[@ChocolatierRob]

And you said on yesterday’s stream that you don’t like talking about finances...

[@wcoleman99]

Is this the Troi ages rapidly show cause of someone else's emotions or is that a different episode

[@enlightedjedi]

Does anyone know anything about the Tarantino Star Trek by now? Just asking?

[@timriggins70]

The actor who played Ral was pretty bland in Police Academy as well.

[@starwolf99]

One thing I liked about Discovery Season 3 is that emphasizes the concept of a Federation with finite resources, finite services, and finite transit as it performs triage on galactic crises.

[@grumpyotter]

I think Riker was lying about how he feels about Deanna. I think Ral nailed it--Riker would be devastated if she found love with someone else. He likes that she is always there and available to him. One of the reasons I don't like him much. He wanted her to wait around for him until he was ready to retire and settle down. She should have stayed with Worf.

[@jeffborowiak8992]

Do you like chocolate?

[@CousinBowling]

Hey man I like your videos but it just took me over 20 minutes to find your channel again.i suggest adding the word "review" to your titles. And editing the playlist title to be more specific. Like "Star Trek: The Next Generation Commentary". They are very difficult to search.

[@1300l]

I hate any Riker and Troy "relationship" episode. For me they are the weak point of TNG, they should just become a couple by season 2... or really move on for good.. In fact, i hate Riker and Troy characters (not just in this episode, i legit dislike those characters). And yes, the guy was a bad sleazy shady guy who come on, there is not a single good thing of him! I need to ask, in a replicators society, why would anyone need economics? Just replicate what you need..

[@saphojuiced]

Because replicators operate magically and build starships.