Star Trek Deep Space Nine Ruminations S1E05: Babel

[@Galvion1980]

O'Brien: "Engineering department, have you tried turning it off and on again?"

[@JimPlaysGames]

In my opinion the only actor who really made the gibberish convincing was Colm Meaney. SIMPLE HESITATION!

[@jeremyjohnson8844]

Right? Shit was hilarious.

[@kalestu_]

Never found the right video for this, so i'll just comment on the newest one. I wanted to thank you for"re-invigorating" my enjoyment of fantasy and bringing back a lot of my childhood to my memory. These series (Babylon 5, TNG, Voyager) where what i watched in my youth a lot - and didn't think about too much (apart from B5) in the past 10-15 years and now i kind of want to watch them again - and i get the chance to do it through your ruminations. I originally came across your channel due to your Babylon 5 Ruminations, since it has always been my favorite TV series - actually the only one that I own a copy of. I liked your style there very much and basically watched through most of your SciFi videos in the past 6 months or so - from Babylon 5 to Voyager and the Movies. I have to say i really enjoyed your style of presentation and your factual nature - really great work. Thank you for a lot of hours well spend.

[@timf7413]

For an early "plot of the week" episode, I kind of like this one. It has a fair number of nice character moments for several of the characters (especially, Jake, Quark, Odo and Kira)

[@mutopis]

This hits very different after Covid-19. Not the first Star Trek episode that does that.

[@tng2112]

Reminded of this episode by the current situation of covid 19 it was pretty telling

[@stevencoardvenice]

Yup. Hittin close to home here

[@user-xj9po6ep9i]

Cant believe its been 4yrs.

[@redfivestandingbye3668]

I've also always been bothered that they couldn't figure out how to communicate or even attempt it. I hadn't even thought of the Darmok episode but thats a good point.

[@RoyalFusilier]

I absolutely remember loving the scenes with Jake and Sisko here, I remember distinctly thinking that it was part of DS9's trend, very early on, of taking Standard Star Trek Things and adding little jolts of pure humanity to them. Like, this was a totally [crisis of the week] thing we've seen a bunch, but from an angle we almost never got, the human impact etc etc. Another good example is the Cardassian cruisers attacking the station in the pilot, I think, where we saw medical supplies being handed out, the wounded being dealt with, etc. Normally, a Star Trek space battle is two sides shooting each other, and shields and health are treated as a pair of HP bars, and named characters aside, we don't usually see the impact of all those shots and damage. Little touches, little bits, which DS9 was masterful at.

[@vesuvanprincess]

Regarding the communication point you bring up, I mostly agree but- the episode has several subtle touches which indicates the problem is worse than just verbal trouble. For example, when Bashir becomes ill his computer screen becomes gibberish and he can't read it anymore. I always just inferred that the disease messed with all forms of communication. And while I'm thinking about Bashir, the disease seems to take place in a day and he very nearly had it figured out. The Bajoran says several times that he can't fix it, he was just an assistant. To me the super genius doctor idea still works in this episode.

[@Toishmaster]

Regarding you'r nitpicking :P of O'Brian being stretched too thin, a couple of possibilities: 1. the station is Cardassian and everything requires re integration with Starfleet code and protocols, which causes everything to break down constantly. 2. more engineers will cause a case of "too many cooks" 3. the station is technically Bajoren and allocation of resources is slowed down by bureaucracy 4. O'Brian is new at his job as chief and is too hands on trying to fix every thing himself.

[@DrZaius3141]

I'm really surprised you didn't mention the music on this one. I had to literally laugh out loud those two times where somone started to talk gibberish and the music went over the top dramatic.

[@mr51406]

Holy prophets does this episode hit hard and is eerily prescient about what we’ve been through since 2020, 27 years after the show came out. Like Quark having an “essential” party despite quarantine (thanks BoJo!) and his comment about his “superior” resistance. The ship threat is a bit of filler but Quark controlling ops is funny. Maybe instead show how the aphasics might have found a way to communicate with each other?

[@permeus2nd]

I love quark in this “”money, davo, GIVE, gold”” ahi see the virus got you too. No I think you underestimate the ferengi Immune system I’m just making sure there not faking it to get out of paying there bar bill “”money, give latanam”” I also love that Quark could have been an arms dealer but no he is a people person, that’s the main reason he is running a bar. 8:26 so to me this comes from the idea that the federation is still technically volunteer work, because everyone can do what they want whenever they want some of the best engineers that earth has are off been painters, there really bad at it but it’s what they want to do.

[@activelivingchallenger4298]

Something that bothers me about Kira is that she is willing to do horrible things if things get desperate but is not willing to see how others may do the same thing and judges them harshly for that. it makes her a flawed character which is interesting but I can't shake off how hypocritical it can be at times.

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

18:00 the only guy who could fix a halo suite with a spatula.

[@elleoneiram]

Loved this episode especially because of Odo's hilariously horrified face when Quark demanded repayment for saving everyone. I think the reason they aren't giving more money to DS9 is because the Federation isn't as great as everyone thinks they are. I just assumed this because it keeps popping up in the series.

[@zeromancer-x]

I've always enjoyed this episode. Quark really shines in this one.

[@Mr1flapjack1]

I think the Federation wasn't allocating more resources to DS9 because it's very far away and primarily caters to non-Federation citizens/non-military endeavours. I can easily see the higher-ups on Earth considering DS9 and the wormhole as "not their problem", especially when so many resources were being used to reinforce Starfleet's military prowess and prepare for future Borg threats. In that climate, getting support to DS9 would barely be an afterthought in an already slow and bureaucratic system. Yes, DS9 was an incredible opportunity for exploration and research, but the focus of Starfleet was at this point largely military rather than exploratory, so it follows that the resources would also shift away from those endeavours. While the Enterprise was still an exploratory ship, being the flagship, this makes sense: you want the most famous and well known ship in the fleet to continue the status quo, so you can maintain a feeling of general calm and normalcy for the populace. Of course the situation with the Cardassians was tense, but I'd argue that this was easily ignored by the Starfleet higher-ups. People in general are really good at putting off problems, especially if they don't have a known deadline, and there's some other larger problem to deal with, in this case the Borg. They didn't know when the Borg would next attack, true, but I think being attacked so close to home at Wolf 359 really drove home the threat of the Borg as imminent. they could be here today, and we should be ready for that. That's not the sense you get with the Cardassians, especially when you're an Admiral sitting comfortably and far away on Earth. Of course the arrival of the Dominion would change all this, but as the galaxy stands in this episode, I don't see Starfleet Headquarters really giving much of a crap about DS9.

[@Skyhigh9_5]

I'd argue that the two Bashirs could link up. It's true that he doesn't figure out a cure super quickly. However, I would say there's more evidence to consider. He is among the last of the characters to be affected by the virus. Sisko only gets as far as he does b/c of his headline status as Commander. I believe that with the amount of infected he interacted with, that his Super status was the ONLY thing that kept him going as long as he did.

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

I like how despite how dishonest qork is when it's really on the line he's willing to step up and do the right thing

[@jeremyjohnson8844]

Yep. I know what you mean, precisely. Flavor.

[@libman2006]

Also you would think that as soon as they realised how bad things could get that they would send a distress call with details of what has happened and what they had done so far to try and resolve the problem.

[@madalynnights4612]

Ok 'Babel' was little boring in the middle, but I do find the Aphasia virus quite horrifying.

[@DrownedInExile]

Imagine if the afflicted - from their perspective - they were speaking clearly, while non-infected were the ones speaking in gibberish. Even more horrifying.

[@RavenheartIndustries]

I would argue that the two versions of Dr. Bashir do link up. Remember how befuddled he was by (redacted for spoilers) created by (redacted for spoilers) after he was outed? He seems to have a massive blind spot to illnesses created by intelligent beings.

[@Jokie155]

I mean, he did work out a vaccine against the Quickening with very basic tools and equipment (because advanced technology was causing a reaction in the Quickening). That's a pretty damn impressive achievement.

[@numinous2506]

I work with dementia patients with aphasia. This episode NAILS it.

[@WhiteScarsEmo]

This whole time I was watching this, I kept expecting an "I am Groot" reference. lol

[@timf7413]

As to the resources question: Yes, the wormhole has made the area and the station more important than it otherwise would be, but at this point it's still probably far from the Federation's top priority. I suppose you could argue that the Federation may even be keeping their finger on the scale a bit to avoid giving away the store for a planet that's not an actual member. Also, if you take things the series reveals later into account, it's also clearly stated later that they simply can't recreate some of the specifically Cardassian technologies and components, so resources are a bit of a moot point.

[@jeffreymiller9438]

Think of how the Harkonnens left Arrakis when they turned over the planet to the Atreides (in Dune). That is how I envision the Cardassians left Bajor. So the available resources were all being allocated to getting essential services established. Think of the diaspora of Bajorans who were off planet and now sought to return. Infrastructure would be needed. Trade was probably a secondary consideration for the provisional government at this juncture.

[@mutopis]

I wonder how many gifted engineers that know and understand Cardassian tech could be allocated to DS9? Not only Cardassian tech, but also Bajoran tech that must somehow work together with Fed tech as well. Especially those who survived the Federation-Cardassian War conflict, and even if they are still with the Federation or they jumped ship with the Maquis by then. I cant imagine there are that many. Such people must be too precious to dispense.

[@gedillt6498]

Kind of weird watching this episode for the first time in 2020....

[@arthurwilliams4519]

I like how Odo was unaffected by this disease because he literally doesn't have a brain...his sentience is distributed throughout his entire body, so the virus has nothing to affect. And the Ferengi "immune system" is probably not the reason Quark was fine...it's probably because the four-lobed Ferengi brain uses synapses and memory in a completely different way, so the virus was either unable to operate, or interfered with some other brain-system that may not even have affected Quark in any way. (I'm curious whether Rom and Nog and any other Ferengi were actually also unaffected, and Quark was just the only one with any interest in helping the "hyoo-mons" and Bajorans, even for a price, and possibly just due to his frenemyship with Odo.) The guest star who plays the ship captain is very interesting and very obvious, and I'm tremendously annoyed at how insignificant his role in the episode actually is. The neatest thing about it is that he's a close-talker who sneaks up on people Batman-style; that's a great trait for an important character to have, because it literally puts him right in the characters' face, and figuratively puts him right in the audience's face. Combine that with the fact that he's not an immediately recognizable alien species to me, and I really wanted to know more about him, and wanted him to have much more to do in this episode. Fun fact...I'm in a noisy environment where I can't listen to this right now (I already have heard it, but that was before I watched the episode, and now I've done that and want to go through the Rumination again), so I'm using KZbin's automated transcript feature. And the transcript for this episode refuses to mis-spell Odo's name twice. If I didn't know the show, I would assume Oto and Oda and Audo were all different people (presumably one of them is friends with Jake and Cisco, while another one plays Davo with Clark).

[@kawaiikawaiianimegirl4144]

I work in customer service at a department store I have to help costumers who are mute, do not speak a language I understand or in 2 regular cases have had a surgery that has made it so they can not speak or can not speak without pain. So I feel your frustration on this one. Not even counting trying to learn basic ASL paper and pens, text writing on cellphones and pointing, pointing is pretty universal just got to say

[@signaltome]

I have to admit that on the surface Babel is not the best of Trek in any regards (average, ok but not groundbreaking in any way is what I mean). However, in the wake of a head infection and sever head-surgeries, medical comas and the like I ended up with, among other things a light to medium case of aphasia. Which is a real thing, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I am better now but it can still cause me trouble if I am tired or stressed. Finding the right word for a thing even when I KNOW what it is, colors especially can get messed up for me if I do not concentrate. Like, I know that thing is green but I say blue for instance. So while this episode does not have "true" aphasia but rather a virus that mimic the symptoms rather, and it is very agressive and maybe a bit overblown, I can still relate because I have personal experience with it. Otherwise I mostly agree with Lorerunner. Good job. ;-)

[@Ozzy_2014]

To be fair I liked the episode as well. Sometimes things don't stand up to too much in depth analysis. But hey it is a tv show not a scientific thesis. Now 1 may well ask where is star fleet medical division w a ship on site to help and where is the Star fleet corp of engineers to help Bajor & DS9?

[@vincentadultman8527]

Now that you mention it, Odo's poor ability to get a read on Rom's true abilities doesn't make sense for such a dogged investigator. Quark has brother-bias, Rom does admittedly stumble with his words, and some species-stereotypes could be at play. But the famed Constable's ability to see what's really going on behind the scenes, and find the truth that other's are hiding, seems to suggest his powers of observation would had led him to be the first to recognize Rom's idiot-savant status. Hadn't yet thought of that discontinuity. Thank you.

[@chrisiv1000]

A lot about Star Trek makes way more sense when you consider the possibility that the human species has entered a severe dysgenic spiral by the 24th century. Think about it - the humans have a cultural aversion to any form of eugenics, no matter how benign, in continuity - and basically all people can be saved and there is no incentive to work or better oneself. I think Picard's explanation of the economics of the 24th century probably applies only to a small percentage of the human species, which tend to be the kinds that make up Starfleet (and presumably some other Federation science institutions, too). The rest are easily controlled and never commit any crimes because: (1) there is planet-wide surveillance, you could never get away with it, (2) they have holodecks, (3) they can eat authentic New Orleans Creole food for free! As a result, there just aren't enough humans who are capable of serving in Starfleet even as crewman, hence the shortage of ships in the Dominion War, Borg incursions, and Generations. They can make all the ships they want, but there aren't enough humans to operate them. I suspect similar processes have happened to other alien races, too. This would explain why O'Brien doesn't have enough support crew.

[@videogenics86]

I have to disagree with super Bashir not syncing up here because he was close. He's starting from scratch on this thing. On the lack of supplies O'brien has I think it can be chalked up to Starfleet not realizing how big of a job integrating Federation tech with Cardassian tech. Which is really where O'brien is having problems.

[@lnlraven079]

Bad Writing, for sure but there is a canonical reason for this. Due to that the Federation is not at the apex of where it was prior to the 'Borg incursion' we are only about a year removed from that in real time. However, they are rebuilding the fleet [Star Trek: New Frontier] explains that they are taking ships out of mothballs in order to have enough ships to patrol and do other things [the entire basis of Star Trek Online with a twist of WW2 into it where they have entire ships except for the captain of cadets] when you read of the USS Kidd in book 4 of New Frontier and they identify it as an Apollo Class frigate that hasn't been in service for 60 years you know something is messed up. In temporary service until they can catch up with the building of the new 'Starfleet' however the Dominion War will basically wipe that out *10 compared to the rebuilding that happened with the 'Borg' so we are at the time where the engineers are in other places updating the hell out of certain things throughout the quadrant. A real interesting side story to New Frontier is that of Robin Lefler during this time, she said every fortnight that she was elsewhere. Updating the orbital defenses of Vulcan one time, then repairing a satellite near the Romulan Neutral Zone, then back to Earth to get supplies for Starbase 29 to fix it up, then to Andor Prime to pick up a new assistant while getting there water filtration unit back up and running at full, then to repair an Oberth class ship near K-7, then to Deep Space 5 to update and replace the entire weapons system of the station, and then to help with a mining facility along the border of the Alpha Quadrant, back to Deep Space 5 due to that the head engineer couldn't take care of the new weapons very well, and then telling the commanding officer to quite literally to find a box of stem bolts and shove it up his ass. Of course this got her a reprimand at the time. In this by the time she made it back to Earth only 4 Miranda's had been updated and a Constellation class was as well, when they were supposed to have 9 Miranda's, 4 Constellations, 2 Constitution classes [yes, the refits], and an Excelsior class up in running in the six weeks since she had been gone. This shows that the engineers were stretched to the limits and at the same time, this is also when the USS Voyager was in Stage 2 of its construction [still 4 years from being commissioned] what does this tell you of starfleet at this time??? though most of this is considered side canon.

[@MollyGermek]

You're right it's likely bad writing. But a way you can explain it away is diplomacy and politics. He does end up getting more help eventually, but it's a Bajoran trainee. You see the friction caused when they try introducing more federation security in a couple of episodes. And given it's nominally a Bajoran station I can see why they'd want Bajoran engineers and technicians trained in its maintenance.

[@rmsgrey]

Also, golden ages tend to breed inferior people - back during the Kirk era, a call for volunteers to be posted to a backwater frontier station designed by and for hostile aliens would have been met with multiple volunteers for every post. Now, it's practically a punishment duty - only those with ulterior motives, or too little political influence, or a rare streak of idealism actually end up there... And StarFleet's probably got a shortage of skilled personnel too - the civilian sector is going to look a lot more tempting than military service during the long peace...

[@MollyGermek]

Maybe. It's hard to really know. Is career advancement a major ambition of most Starfleet personnel? I really would have thought idealism would have to be the major motivator of anyone who made it through the academy. It's not as if we see many perks of having a higher rank in Starfleet to my knowledge.

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Lockdown time at DS9 !

[@ChristopherStandardTime]

why are they still using linguistic communication? because, per dark helmet, even in the future, nothing works.

[@DrownedInExile]

I liked this episode, though the final act is a bit weak. Re: communication. Chief O'Brien tried to communicate using a datapad, but wrote nonsense. Dr. Bashir even clearly states the infected are incapable of expressing themselves or understanding others. Later in a delightfully chilling scene, Dr. Bashir slowly becomes afflicted, and does a double-take at his display that suddenly shows nonsense. So I'm not sure what your complaint is. That virus was kinda horrifying. Imagine if the afflicted - from their perspective - they were the ones speaking clearly, while everyone else was speaking nonsense. Food for thought.

[@cancelcasey]

This is fun

[@rodriguez1025]

This episode, like Move Along Home, it’s the sort of episode that could’ve occurred only this early in DS9’s run. They haven’t quite figured out what the show could be, so they’re defaulting to the sort of episodes like you’d see on The Next Generation or even The Original Series. DS9 works best when it tells stories that are unique to its setting and premise; the show just is not one of them.

[@woodyarnold9630]

I am really enjoying your show but I find it interesting that you don’t know what the word blackmail means.

[@jamespepper8671]

You mght want ot review this again now that we have had the virus affect teh world

[@keito204]

.... BREAD!

[@thomaswitte2971]

I like how utterly pathetic ds9’s quarantine procedures are.

[@tee_es_bee]

The Quark and Odo dynamic great as ever, but yes, the weakest episode so far. 🧡💛🧡

[@brianstewart23]

People stuck in an airlock? Use the transporter to beam them out. Virus infecting people? Use the transporter's bio filter to remove it. This episode was lame.

[@nichtoffentlich4142]

Blah bla bla blablabla. Blah!

[@Braigwen]

Definition of Ruminiation: A deep dive into the plot, events and behind the scenes goings ons on the set of a show, or in the studio of a movie or game. Not the actual episode itself.