Lost Ancient Wisdom, Consciousness, Carl Jung & Plato | Bruce MacLennan, PhD

Dr. Bruce MacLennan enters the mind meld!
In this brain-melting transmission we talk consciousness, the link between Carl Jung and hidden ancient wisdom, platonism, why the platonic realm of forms is logically inescapable, the mysterious esoteric practice known to the ancient greeks as "theurgy," why ancient philosophy is more important than ever, and much more.
Bruce J. MacLennan, PhD is a professor and author with forty years of experience studying ancient Greek philosophy and religion. He has published journal articles and book chapters on Neoplatonic spiritual practices, Jungian psychology, and neurotheology. He is Associate Professor Emeritus of Computer Science at the University of Tennessee where he had a special interest in neural networks, swarm robotics and emergent phenomena in artificial systems.
Links for Bruce:
Bruce's book, The Wisdom of Hypatia: Ancient Spiritual Practices for a More Meaningful Life | shorturl.at/fgtzQ
About Bruce | web.eecs.utk.edu/~bmaclenn/
Bruce's articles on Jung and Platonism: shorturl.at/goOQ5
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[@aliceinwonderland887]

Thank you Eye drops. You have opened my eyes so wide that when the light hits just right they sparkle like diamonds.

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

You’re welcome. You can call me Michael 😉

[@TruthLovingHippy]

You all have quickly become my all time favorite channel!!

[@sentinaludo1489]

I appreciate you finding these guests that have such a well grounded perception of this life that aren't sraightjacketed by religous dogma or academic pride. We need to hear other like minded voices like this during this turbulent time of change in our world, which I believe are manifestations coming forth out of the realm of the spirit. And that is where true change occurs and becomes reality in this life. Problem is, obsession and attachments to the material tend to foster a limited view of this existence as being the only existence with nothing after it.

[@intimacyarts9902]

I don't usually comment on KZbin,but in this case I felt inspired to offer up my gratitude and deep appriciation of the quality conversations you are having here on Third Eye. I just discovered your channel last week and this is the best interview yet because it covers material that is so near and dear to my soul and mind. Thank you to Dr MacLennan for his work as well. Such a pleasure to get to listen to so much practical sensemaking of such esoteric matters. Great book and further research suggestions, for sure. Definitely getting the Dr's book and saving for the Black Books, lol. Thanks as well for bringing this to such a public forum. Keep up the good works brother.

[@danielrosnik8704]

Best interview of the year. So much to digest. Thank you! 🧙🏼‍♂️

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

🙏🙏🙏

[@peterdegrandis4630]

enlightening intellectual conversation inspiring conformations humbly

[@natasham1137]

Amazing!!! Seriously love your channel!!! I’m so glad I stumbled across your account!!!

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

💖

[@J-Train]

Whoo boy! Going to have to dive into this tomorrow morning after work! This looks so interesting. Thank you!

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

🙏🙏🙏

[@cathithomas2888]

it IS! I’m listening for the second time

[@J-Train]

Wow, only 20 minutes in and there’s a discussion of Donald Hoffman! This already IS a great video!

[@honey3762]

I love your content and your channels name too! I hope you become more popular! Your channel is amazing!

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Much appreciated 🙏

[@AltruisticTimmerrr23]

Great Work! I stumbled onto your channel and now I'm a sub. It's a very professional representation of the most important subject. Soul Healing 🙏 thanx for your work

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

✨🙏✨

[@erinpalmer5752]

I too had a spiritual awakening where my higher self taught me several of Jung’s concepts. For example the shadow and how I need to dissolve all my “characters” as I understood them to be back to one being. I thought I had lost it, due to it happening while I was on a few X pills. Three days later I saw one of Jung’s videos on KZbin and was mind blown. Apparently my mind on drugs = philosophical levels of intelligence, makes sense I have ADHD horrible and don’t take medication. Well at least pharmaceutical medication 😭😭😶‍🌫️ anyways I am hooked now finally somebody who understands me when I say I have woke up several times sober or not in the middle of a full blown conversation with myself. So anyway it has given me some relief and a little bit of an ego boost 🫢 Thanks for sharing your videos and interest in Jung he’s amazing to me!

[@alcrosbie7098]

Hey Ted, so grateful for your podcasts 🙏 I’m here in New Zealand listening to this wonder-full stuff you’re discussing and discovering and sharing with us ❤ my kindest, loving, peaceful thoughts go to now my Brother, go well and keep it coming yeah? Thanks again, Allan

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Thank you my friend!

[@jc9love]

I really loved this one! Thanks so much!

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

✌️✌️✌️

[@dianagoddard6456]

Yes such a great wide ranging discussion . So very helpful …. For understanding theory and practise Eyes wide shut

[@YTYKBYHNI]

I feel I’ve been a bit remiss in not diving into the content I’ve seen from you sooner. This was a wonderful interview, and I look forward to enjoying more of your work as well. Thanks for what you’ve done and continue to do!

[@robertf6409]

Awesome conversation. Thank you

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

✌️✨✌️

[@driggerfireon5760]

Mr Philip; total sincerity

[@pieceofmind321]

They say seeing is believing but this thing somehow emanating and diversifying itself, how could it be? It’s not that we’re unreasonably closed minded, reality is friggin nuts man.

[@tixch2000]

Brilliant !!

[@JasonLocklear]

Beautiful mind meld

[@itsirkeel]

Math and platonic realities. I really feel there's something there! Love hearing your riffs and then I get to incorporate these concepts into my creative writing. Thank you!! Also, at minute 39, you mention a woman with software studying Plato's Republic-- and a podcast? Might you include her name as well? Thanks!

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Thank you! Dr. Maya Alapin

[@DistantTower]

You are going to be the esoteric Lex Fridman.

[@leonardgooden4983]

The Mesmerization of the presence of the Goddess

[@Jessica-ld4bs]

"Psycho-spiritual inflammation" is a great way to put it.

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

🐸🤝🐸

[@kengomes9636]

Great interview! Do you have any books or resources that have more information on Daemons?

[@user-ds4mc5xo8q]

“What is green is always more than a yard away”

[@Stu_DLNGR]

Tickle... deez. Great info. Peace 4:21

[@pickletown]

Extra special stuff

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

✨🙏✨

[@raycosmic9019]

Reality = That which is/That I am. Mathematics is an abstract vocabulary that employs the law of equivalence to express relations between concepts. This equals that.

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Mathematical notation might be abstract. The values that are behind the notation are not. If you can represent demonstrable laws of physics with those values, I’d argue they’re quite real.

[@raycosmic9019]

@@THIRDEYEDROPS The notation of mathematics expresses concepts of laws and values, not the laws and values themselves, and is thus two steps removed from actual experience.

[@thetealempress]

That picture of the little girl on his wall behind the Dr. Is disturbing along with his door hangar..

[@Elias-Liv]

Please provide details about the woman who decode the layers of the republic 🙏 It seems that many high-profile books have hidden mathematical layers. (Bible, and at least one more I can't remember). Maybe it's a "download" (~channeling). Edit: Shakespeare's work also have mathematical layer's.

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Maya Alapin and also another scholar named Kennedy are the ones doing the work on the republic. I recommend checking out the podcast Secret History of Western Esotericism and checking out his episodes on the republic

[@sharonjuniorchess]

The is also The Pythagorean Plato; prelude to the song itself by Ernest G McClain which revealed that the Republic contained hidden texts about musical temperament and that irrational number the square root of two.

[@HelloKitty.2002]

❤

[@vibe1luv]

In mass they are called Miya , 26:59 the lord illusionary power; individually they are call ignorances aka the atom

[@jessicaporter4194]

Hang on, why are the Greeks meditating lying down? My ears perked at this as it is my preferred method 😂❤

[@ejenkins4711]

Once the craic could craic again the new rainmaker will make it rain From a place not far away a home we are alk the same

[@T_D_B_]

My personal theory is that modern society lost its thirst for mysticism and religion at the same time and rate at which we lost our connection with nature. Isn't really a surprise when you consider all religions started as naturalistic faith systems.

[@AlanPhan128]

TLDR: Ancient wisdom and consciousness, as understood by Plato and others, involves the idea of an ultimate non-dual ground of consciousness giving rise to gods and beings, with rituals and substances used to tune the mind to connect with divine energy. 1. 00:00 🧠 Carl Jung and Plato's views on consciousness and mathematical truths, the intersection of hard science and philosophy, the limitations of AI, and the fundamental unexplainable nature of consciousness are discussed by Professor Bruce McLennan. 1.1 Carl Jung and Plato's views on consciousness and mathematical truths existing independently of the mind are discussed by Professor Bruce McLennan, who combines his expertise in computer science with his interest in esotericism and spirituality. 1.2 The speaker discusses their interest in bridging the gap between hard science and philosophy, particularly in the areas of computer science, AI, and analytical psychology, and how their early interest in philosophy and logic influenced their career path. 1.3 The speaker discusses his interest in programming languages, linguistics, cognitive science, and the foundations of mathematics, and how these disciplines are interconnected. 1.4 Dreyfus's critique of artificial intelligence led to a re-interest in neural network-based approaches and the importance of understanding how the brain works in implementing artificial devices. 1.5 Dr. Donald Hoffman's work on the nature of consciousness and the intersection of philosophy, psychology, and neuroscience led to a deeper understanding of the unconscious and the limitations of AI. 1.6 Consciousness is a fundamental and unexplainable phenomenon, with the hard problem of consciousness highlighting the gap between physical processes and subjective experiences. 2. 27:06 🧠 Conscious experience can be broken down into Proto phenomena, with a correlation between brain activity and subjective consciousness, connecting to Jungian psychology and Plato's belief in the existence of abstract objects. 2.1 Conscious experience can be broken down into Proto phenomena, the smallest constituents of a conscious state that still have some sort of Elemental subjectivity, and there may be a correlation between things going on in the brain and protophenomena. 2.2 The universe has dual aspects of consciousness and physical processes, with the existence of a third element implied by the interaction of subjective conscious experience and the physical world, connecting to Jungian psychology and the view of mathematical objects as genuine platonic objects. 2.3 Plato's idea of letting none ignorant of geometry enter his academy is based on the belief that abstract objects exist independently of human beings, outside of time and space, and our minds can come into contact with them. 2.4 Ancient Greeks were familiar with abstract objects like numbers and geometric forms, which led to the realization of a realm of non-physical things that are perfectly real and have definite properties, and the investigation of different forms and definitions. 2.5 Plato's Republic may contain hidden mathematical and geometric layers that are being decoded, revealing a level of complexity and thought that is mind-blowing and almost unthinkable. 2.6 The speaker expresses doubt and astonishment about a topic discussed by the professor. 3. 41:09 🧠 Ancient philosophical schools taught esoteric wisdom at different levels of psychological development, with potential ties to shamanic practices and the collective unconscious, and the use of psychoactive substances in ancient cultures. 3.1 Ancient philosophical schools, like the Pythagorean musical scale, were taught individually to students at different levels of psychological development, with esoteric teachings and stages of initiation, suggesting that Plato and other philosophers crafted their works with multiple levels of meaning. 3.2 The speaker discusses the esoteric and mystical significance of the number six in Plato's writings, cautioning against confirmation bias and the search for statistically significant patterns. 3.3 Ancient Greek scholars and mystics had consistent ideas and practices related to consciousness and wisdom, which were referred to as philosophy, prisca theologia, or ancient theology. 3.4 Ancient wisdom and mystical abilities of figures like Pythagoras may have originated from shamanic practices and interactions with the collective unconscious, with potential ties to Indian Mysteries and mystery traditions in the Mediterranean. 3.5 Plato and other ancient philosophers were initiated into the mysteries of eluses, which may have involved psychoactive components, but the experience was not just a dressed up psychedelic experience, it also included a whole purification process. 3.6 The speaker discusses the use of psychoactive substances in ancient cultures and the potential for genuine visionary experiences without the need for drugs. 4. 55:42 🧠 Ancient wisdom and consciousness, as understood by Plato and others, involves the idea of an ultimate non-dual ground of consciousness giving rise to gods and beings, with rituals and substances used to tune the mind to connect with divine energy. 4.1 The speaker discusses the potential of Consciousness and the profound experiences with plant medicines, suggesting a graduated understanding of ancient myths leading to a more immersive experience of Mind, Body, and Consciousness. 4.2 Ancient Greek initiations and mystical experiences were profound and transformative, with some involving fear and life-changing encounters in the underworld. 4.3 The speaker discusses the neoplatonic Theory and the debate among neoplatonists about the nature of god-working, with some viewing it as ceremonial magic and others as contemplative practices. 4.4 The word "theory" has been used by ancient philosophers to describe techniques intended to put individuals into contact with the divine, with different practices working better for different people. 4.5 Ancient wisdom and consciousness, as understood by Plato and others, involves the idea of an ultimate non-dual ground of consciousness giving rise to gods and beings, with rituals and substances used to tune the mind to connect with divine energy. 4.6 Plato's teachings were likely oral and involved meditation and ritualistic techniques, with a focus on divine magic separate from mundane magic. 5. 01:14:03 🧠 Plato and ancient thinkers emphasized raising the soul to unity with the Divine mind, warning against distractions and toxic spirituality, with Neoplatonism and stoicism as main philosophies. 5.1 The ancient goal of raising the soul to be in contact with a divine being and the importance of the teacher being a role model in ancient philosophical schools. 5.2 Plato and other ancient thinkers emphasized the importance of striving for elevation of the soul and unity with the Divine mind, warning against distractions and the toxic nature of contemporary spirituality focused on manifestation and ego. 5.3 Neoplatonism and stoicism were the main philosophies, with students needing to prove themselves and have their psychological house in order before being admitted to study with a platonic teacher. 5.4 Plato and his followers had different approaches to philosophy, with Porphyry and Iamblichus having valuable but differing perspectives within the neoplatonic school. 5.5 The use of Egyptian names and ancient wisdom in answering questions reflects a channeling of energy and Muse, as well as a belief that ancient civilizations were closer to ancient theology than the Greeks. 5.6 Ancient pagans believed in a transcendent one being that is triad in nature, similar to the Christian concept, and the term "pagan" is a modern invention that doesn't accurately represent their beliefs. 6. 01:28:19 🧠 Platonic tradition and the concept of non-duality challenge traditional views of deity, leading to a metaphysical shipwreck, but embracing archetypes provides a more meaningful existence, with a connection to Carl Jung's work on the psyche and innate behavioral programs. 6.1 Platonic tradition is referred to as Pagan monotheism, with important differences in the view of divinity and the ineffable nature of the supreme god in platonism. 6.2 The concept of non-duality challenges traditional views of deity and monotheistic religions, leading to a metaphysical shipwreck where belief in one God or nothing leaves individuals feeling forsaken or living in a heartless universe, but embracing a world of soul interpenetrating everything and archetypes provides a more animated and meaningful existence. 6.3 The speaker discusses the connection between archetypes and innate behavioral programs in human beings, relating it back to the work of Carl Jung and Plato. 6.4 Jung's observations about the psyche can be compared to the Copernican Revolution, shifting the focus from the ego to the unconscious. 6.5 Consciousness is not the center of everything, but rather influenced by archetypes in the collective unconscious, with the self being at the center of our psychological lives. 6.6 Archetypes influence our behavior and can be in conflict with each other, as seen in polytheistic mythologies, leading to potential troubles.

[@AlanPhan128]

7. 01:38:42 🧠 Ancient wisdom and symbols, discussed by Yamblicus and Carl Jung, are important for connecting to the unconscious and tuning the mind, with the practice of active imagination being crucial for delving into the inner psyche. 7.1 The speaker discusses the importance of getting in contact with archetypal forces and using active imagination to dialogue with gods, as well as the use of symbolic actions in contacting deities. 7.2 Ancient wisdom and symbols, as discussed by Yamblicus and Carl Jung, are important for tuning the mind and connecting to the unconscious. 7.3 Epicureanism is the lowest degree of spiritual development, stoicism is good for dealing with the world but lacks spiritual depth, and neoplatonism adds a spiritual dimension to address issues in the second half of life. 7.4 Neoplatonism and Jungian psychology discuss how archetypes influence our daily lives, with the adaptation of these archetypes leading to the development of complexes that can essentially possess and govern our consciousness. 7.5 The speaker discusses the similarities and differences between Hellenistic philosophies, such as epicureanism, stoicism, and platonism, and how they all have commonalities despite emphasizing their differences. 7.6 Comparing Jungian and Platonic wisdom, the speaker discusses the practice of active imagination as a way to tune the brain away from the mundane world and into the inner psyche, emphasizing the importance of going deep into the darkness despite innate biases against it. 8. 02:03:49 🧠 Jung's exploration of the shadow and conflict in polytheistic beliefs is more psychologically realistic, Ayahuasca retreats are necessary for elevated consciousness, and esoteric knowledge should only be pursued if one's soul is drawn to it. 8.1 Jung's exploration of the shadow and the conflict between gods in polytheistic beliefs is psychologically more realistic and useful than the unrealistic harmony portrayed in monotheistic religions. 8.2 Going through difficult and uncomfortable experiences is necessary to reach elevated points of consciousness, as described in the speaker's personal experiences with Ayahuasca retreats. 8.3 Philosophy may not be for everyone, and esoteric knowledge should only be pursued if one's soul is truly drawn to it. 8.4 The speaker discusses the importance of embracing mystery and paradox, using active imagination to understand oneself and the world better. 8.5 Maintain moral autonomy, engage in respectful discussions, and ground yourself in material reality after engaging in magical practices to connect with the higher mind and interface with the gods. 8.6 Individual and universal noose, as well as the concept of active imagination, are discussed in relation to Jungian psychology and Platonic philosophy.

[@aprilyoung1234]

You've got the best male friends!

[@chrismontoya4266]

Much like IFS therapies....

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Love IFS but it definitely owes a lot to Jung.

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

Obviously computation is a form of idealism categorically so its no suprise so many are into philosophy in my opinion. The Industrial revolutionary mind set was obsessed with physicalism with mechanical classical physics the paradolia of mind seen it everywhere in everything .even factory workers kids knew it enough that teaching correlations in nature was taken to its extreme . But everyone has always known everything has a code or blue print . This rise of idealism spawned by computation should tell us how we aren't learning as much about our universe as we are about how our brains rationalize our reality..

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

I’m not picking up what you’re putting down in terms of the relationship between computation and idealism. Can you explain?

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

@@THIRDEYEDROPS if your familiar with the great debates in philosophy like how to classify things in reality. And also certain lines of thinking is spawned or inspired by them.. The universe is made of 4 % physical matter . Out of this comes classical physics and well established philosophy like materlistim . Its objective you can measure it ,touch it etc. Then by default 96% idealism categorically subjectice . Like love ,numbers languages you can only build secondary lines of evidences. Here computation,simulation, theism and a whole host of other philosophical lines of thinking are spawned one from another

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

Obviously waves ,fields and gravity still can't be claimed to meet all physicalism criteria which pisses of athiest and materlist a lot.

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

@@THIRDEYEDROPS my main point being the rise of idealism all over society & in academia is piggy backing a family line of thought like computation or software. Etymology of words can often add connecting orgins of this family of thought. Its very similar to society becoming so obsessed with classical physics from issac newtons time to ,darwins deep time evolutionary mythology.. These lines of thinking piggy back each other. They grow from physical laws put down by divine right rulers. Lol then trickled down.

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

We sit in a cross roads between our grandparents physical hardware society's mindset that shaped how they interpreted academic evidence And now our youthful society's saturated wiith idealistic software . The reformation is probably the last time the western world was in this type of transition. One where God given free will holy spirit ideological freedom was on the rise

[@vibe1luv]

We think vanilla taste like because the devine creator thought that first

[@user-xz6xv8cf3n]

Please look up Robert Edward Grant. You all sh I understand have hin on your Podcasts.

[@user-xz6xv8cf3n]

Excuse my phone correct ; Robert Edward Grant: Guia network. Current book Polymath. Also on Instagram and u tube. You have much to discuss.

[@mick21778]

They had not been limiting their own intellectual capacity for that long at that point in time when the republic was produced. Limiting = reliance on writing. Look at what the original Australian ( no insult intended to anyone ) have the capacity to remember and very different relationship to time. No expert of any kind in any of these things but suspect there is a massive relevance with regard to how bright we where and how limited we have become. Sure Mr Musk knows far more about such things. Another idea, what if the shroom is the networking software ( metaphor ) that is required to bypass need for clumsy linear always inaccurate language. Giving access to the common language we actually speak, not effected by egoic time. Is that a Babylonian tower I can see in the ancestral distance. Sure I can here it whispering men bad women good, women bad men good, whilst the message of balance the star that David liked becomes muted by material world mundanity. More metaphor, Jung was one of the most powerful shamans the west ever had, I suspect. I like to think that this is an egoic training course that McGilchrist can smile broadly at when at the next train stop. Cool cast thanks

[@KevinMannix-sf5zk]

Tell this old guy that when he FEELS Gods love, "we Know", he does not have to tell anyone He does not have to speak, "we know" tell him We Know

[@mp9810]

Please stop saying eXoterically. It's eSoterically and I think it makes you more easily dismissable than you should be. Good discussion!

[@Gidaume]

exoteric is a word

[@cre8torsco-cre8ting10]

❤

❤