Lost - Ben kills Jacob [5x17 - The Incident 2]

[@SheldonAdama17]

“What about me?!” “What about you? I only guaranteed you a six episode arc, you’re lucky you got up to series regular!” - Lost The Musical

[@PlayfulFruitLPer]

I like how the MIB looks at Jacob when Ben is hurt and venting. It's such a moment of: 'look, you've ruined this man as much as anyone else did. This is the consequence of your actions.'

[@Hanson032]

I interpreted it as more of “lol this guy hates his guts I can finally get off this island”

[@littlebunnyvideoproduction2278]

I noticed that too. But for me MiB looked at him like "See? I found the perfect sucker to kill you this time." lmao. Lost literally gets so much better with rewatches, knowing the entire context.

[@jonathancooper4914]

What a fantastic scene. It holds up really well.

[@raina1848]

"I see you found your loophole" Man, he knew exactly what was going on here...

[@TrueGaming140.48]

after like 10 years I just realised the shot of flocke watching jacob burn up mirrors the shot in season 1 episode 3 of Locke watching his wheelchair burn up

[@Niberspace]

WOW! I had no idea

[@felipealejandro225]

WOW nice catch!

[@mezykin]

God I loved the score of this whole show

[@jonathancooper4914]

Reese: Finch! That's not Locke! He's not the victim! He's the perpetrator... Finch? FINCH?!

[@sparkletwi2075]

I love this comment so much

[@data4533]

Technical this one, but i've got the reference

[@Prisoner_849]

POI is a great series. I watched POI because of Michael Emerson's amazing performance on Lost.

[@jasonwatson1412]

Haha awesome I love it!

[@duyhoanguyen7944]

Then Jacob becomes Lucifer

[@piercedavis9176]

" What about you? " Honestly, this line alone says everything you need to about why Jacob never met Ben. At the end of the day, Ben was a horrible, jealous, vindictive, and manipulative person. Ignoring that mountain of terrible things he had done alone, he went against Jacobs's very ideals: -He helped kill everyone in the Dharma Inc initiative. (People who Jacob had no problem with being on the island given his ideals) -He attacked, killed, kidnapped, and tortured the people that crashed on this island. -And to top it all off, he wasn't even supposed to be the leader of this island. Widmore was, yet Ben screwed over the man so he could lead it himself. As a result, the island and even Jacob himself hated him. He didn't play by the rules, he abused them. He didn't want to share the island even when Jacob wanted to. So really, it's no wonder Jacob never showed his face to Ben. He couldn't trust him, and he never liked him. Don't get me wrong Jacob is hardly a saint, but Ben's never been a good person either. He just tricked himself into thinking he was.

[@Niberspace]

Possibly, or you could argue that Jacob could have steered him in the right direction. The whole thing makes me think of a manager at a company who lies to his employees that "if you have patience you will be rewarded one day" but never intends to ever live up to his promise, and justifies it with "because you did x and y". That manager could have steered him into the right direction instead of just being quiet and judgemental.

[@andrewgarkavyy]

Jacob explicitly says in episode Ab Aeterno that he does not want to influence people on the island directly. He leads people to the island, yes, but then gives them free will because he wants to prove the point that people can choose themselves to do good. That's why he gives Ben the choice and does not defend himself which he can easily do (as we see when he defends himself from Richard's attack) - it is still the test, Ben still has free will. Jacob understand that he'll most likely die but he stands to his ideals to the death. The only exception Jacob makes is for Richard. Jacob defends himself from his attack probably because it was the first time the Monster sent a person to attack Jacob and he didn't really expect it. Realising that the Monster can interfere with people on the island and corrupt them and even send to kill him, Jacob comes with the idea to still avoid the direct interference from him but let Richard become his intermediate who kinda balances the interference of the Monster with small indirect guidance from Jacob.

[@jantirdil9885]

Dharma was never supposed to be on the Island... And wiping them out wasn't Ben's idea, but others, especialy Richard's whom probably get instructions from Jacob himself. He attacked, killed, kidnapped and torture people because Richard brought him Jacob's instructions and lists with names of important people, and those who can be left to die. Ben was just following the orders. And Widmore was expelled because he violated their own rules (the others)... He would have been, even if Ben didn't intervene... Ben may be the trigger that cast Widmore out, but it was Widmore himself, who was reason of his exclusion.

[@ElEspectroDeLaMi]

I'm rewatching the series again, and MiB's ultimate plan was fucking brilliant. I know all of this wasn't planned out that far in advance -- since Lindelof and Cuse had to beg ABC to give them an end date -- but it's fascinating how everything that'd already been written, filmed, and broadcast still fit with this goal of the Man in Black's. There are some instances of the smoke monster just fleeing whenever Locke is around; not because he's afraid of Locke, but because he can't let Locke see what he's capable of in order to ultimately manipulate Locke into turning that wheel so he'll die off the Island in order for him to take Locke's form and convince everyone that he's the real John Locke in order to get his "loophole" Ben *right* here. And Jacob was willing to be this "sacrifice the Island demanded" so his candidate could also be his loophole and stop/kill the MiB for good; Jacob knew *exactly* what "what about you?" would elicit from Ben, and wanted it. "Thirty-five years I've lived on this Island, and all I heard was your name..." I like how Ben doesn't even bother lying about being born on the Island like he'd done most of his life; if there's one person who's gonna know the truth about Ben's birth, it's gonna be the immortal demigod who actually *was* born on the Island. "But when he asks to see you, he gets marched straight here as if he was Moses." That half-smug look that Flocke gives Jacob in response to that is kinda funny in a "told ya so" sibling sort of way.

[@Vandenberg144]

Damn...this is the most important scene in the entire show.

[@Niberspace]

not quite, the moth speech was

[@adams115]

@@Niberspacetheres an eyelash on my screen. NOT!

[@kibwel.parker6042]

This scene was one of the scariest Lost moments of not THE scariest. The darkness, the facial mannerisms the music at 1:35....legit chills

[@doct0rnic]

If only Jacob explained to Ben he wasn't Locke instead of provoking him he might still be alive.

[@BartAllen]

*Because it was always part of the plan -- Jacob knew what would have happened ~*

[@christoffer4862]

No. Jacob gave Ben a choice. Ben chose to kill him. Simple as that.

[@Mellowlo]

Yet that was the point. If Jacob told him then would he really be making a choice? Also at this point Jacob already had his replacements and pretty much was done with his job, in other words he wanted to die.

[@kno6ndg7]

@@Mellowlo you say it like murdering someone who did you no harm is not a bad choice after all. ben has given a choice and he made it.

[@perrybb2]

It's a pretty obvious God analogy and Jacob is supposed to be the Christ-like figure. Ben's anger at the god of the island (Jacob) for seemingly abandoning him in his greatest moment of desperation is pretty relatable for a lot of people

[@irenastevanovic6595]

For someone good Jacob sounded so cold when he said: "What about you?"

[@henryaggerate9669]

Jacob isn’t “good”. He’s better than MiB but he’s a human being just like everyone else in the show. He’s manipulative and cold himself. Don’t you remember him distracting Sayid while Nadia died?

[@TangoVictorSierra]

@@henryaggerate9669Don’t you mean when Jacob saved Sayeed? He was the candidate to save, not Nadia. Pretty sure the car was driven by one of Widmore’s assassins too.

[@exiaR2x78]

Is that chair the same rocking chair from the cabin?

[@rydermccall3590]

Jacob asked “what about you?” because if Ben had looked at his actions he’d understand.

[@PaddyRoon7]

I can't think of any possible alternative reason for the line "What about you?" other than Jacob intentionally provoking Ben into murdering him. "Part of the plan." Saying that line to someone who is clearly emotional, feeling undervalued and ignored, how could that *possibly* go well?

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

In Jacob's flashback episode, his mother says he doesn't know how to lie. The point was to be honest about his feelings toward Ben and that Ben should make the right choice in face of the truth. Jacob says its meaningless if he has to influence anybodies decision to do whats right. Miles tells Ben that Jacob was hoping he was wrong about Ben, so obviously he didn't want Ben to kill him. Jacob also had Brahm and his men en route to the statue so that if Ben chose not to kill Jacob, they would secure the area and get things under control. So Jacob had plans for multiple contingencies but he definitely wasn't trying to provoke Ben, he was just being honest about how he has no sympathy for Ben because of how wicked a person he is.

[@Hankblue]

@@user-hu9vi7nk1l There were plenty of truthful things he could have told Ben to deescalate the situation. The entire impetus for Ben's actions was based on distortions and half-truths, distortions which he perpetuated by saying only 'what about you?'. It might be canonical that Jacob didn't want to be killed, but then it's also canonical that he was a foolish zealot miles away from the enlightened presence he was conceived as.

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

@@Hankblue Jacob didn't want to influence Ben's decision, nor was he going to beg for his life. As soon as Ben says "oh so now you decided to stop ignoring me" Jacob knew he was going to die, you can see the way his face changes. Think of how hurley reacted when he found out Michael killed libby. The reasons Ben gave weren't half truths, jacob really did fuck with Ben's life but he deserved it. And Ben should have done what hurley did and made the right choice. Jacob was a very private person and he said no one comes in unless he invites them, Ben showed up uninvited with intention to kill Jacob and holds him and knife point and demands Jacob explain himself as though he owed Ben anything. The last thing Jacob would do is give him what he wants, he resented him and took the opportunity to kick him while he's down because that's what jacob actually thought of ben.

[@Hankblue]

​@@user-hu9vi7nk1l What do you mean they weren't half-truths, the entire thesis he presented to Jacob was that someone he thought was John Locke was given favor despite having devoted almost none of his time to the island. It was a perfectly reasonable question, and the obvious answer was 'that isn't John Locke'. It's not a real test of character when someone's worldview is built on distortions. That's why we put criminals with schizophrenia into mental institutions and not prisons, because we recognise the moral distinction between people who act from a place of accurate perception and those who don't. The question isn't whether Jacob chose principles over pragmatism, we know he did. The question is were his principles coherent and consistent, and they clearly weren't. He was in the exact same situation when Richard came at him with a knife centuries ago, and what did he do? He disarmed Richard and cleared away the distortions which caused him to act that way. Where are the principles? 'Tell the truth' doesn't even come close to explaining what he did here.

[@Hankblue]

@@user-hu9vi7nk1l ​What do you mean they weren't half-truths, the entire thesis he presented to Jacob was that someone he thought was John Locke was given favor despite having devoted almost none of his time to the island. It was a perfectly reasonable question, and the obvious answer was 'that isn't John Locke'. It's not a real test of character when someone's worldview is built on distortions. That's why we put criminals with schizophrenia into mental institutions and not prisons, because we recognise the moral distinction between people who act from a place of accurate perception and those who don't. The question isn't whether Jacob chose principles over pragmatism, we know he did. The question is were his principles coherent and consistent, and they clearly weren't. He was in the exact same situation when Richard came at him with a knife centuries ago, and what did he do? He disarmed Richard and cleared away the distortions which caused him to act that way. Where are the principles? 'Tell the truth' doesn't even come close to explaining what he did here.

[@killerkdawg88]

When Jacob asked “What about you?”, I don’t even think he was deliberately trying to be cruel, or to goad Ben into killing him. He was simply answering Ben’s question. . And maybe also saying “I don’t know what to tell you Ben. Why do YOU think you weren’t chosen?”

[@TheAleksandros]

Nah, Jacob asked "what about you" as a continuation to his previous statement to Ben (the choice dillemma) - He offered a choice - either to fulfill MiB's wish or walk away. Once Ben was done venting his frustration, Jacob quickly bounces everything back to ben - "what about you?" as in "are you going to kill me or walk away. make up your mind already". Jacob doesn't leave Ben with a direct answer to his question

[@FreshZCORD]

Couldn't blame ben for this one

[@verniks]

Lol really? Ben was an arrogant asshole - Jacob responding him "what about you?" perfectly places it, there is nothing special about anybody but only their actions speak for them. Ben thought that following orders and playing along in matter of "means to an end" would grant him "special" treating or place but the whole point of the "test" was to find a person which is good from the heart and is not doing anything for a "reward" but just only that it needs to be done - that's why Johns "grace" was passed to Jack.

[@NobleBoss]

​@@verniks Jacob killed thousands upon thousands of people by bringing them to the island just because he wanted to a prove the Man In Black wrong. And it took him 2000 years for him eventually to be right. He's a horrible leader.

[@jthwang]

@@verniks Better an arrogant asshole than an indifferent one.

[@hugo8500]

@@verniks I agree. Ben instead should of uppercut him first, followed by a suplex, launching Jacob straight into the fireplace

[@beastworld8109]

For however much Lost is remembered poorly there were always nice moments even in the latter seasons.

[@gwh3013]

It was just the weird outcome that messed up the show, it still have some great set up and amazing seasons all through it... it's just that magic light doesn't really cut it, that alienated me. Still great show, meh ending.

[@beastworld8109]

@@gwh3013 I don't think there's any point the premise doesn't work they just lost a sense for the execution. Even the magic light stuff, there was always this pseudo-science framing of everything that they needed to lean more into, and then the dichotomy with faith and purpose which was always relied more heavily on implication, with specifically the implication that to name it explicitly is a type of folly. Jacob saying by the end that "it doesn't mean anything if I just tell them what's right and wrong" was the real killer, the show lived and died by its subtleties.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@beastworld8109No you just didnt get it as your "science aproval" showed!

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@gwh3013No you just didnt understand the meaning.

[@beastworld8109]

@@stillgotyourmom no actually the meaning of the show - right up until the last season - is that you can't name the agencies of predestination explicitly. The more you believe yourself to be witnessing them at hand, and subsequently the more effort you make to identify them, to scientifically quantify them, the more unreliable they become. And if an agency of predestination becomes unreliable for you individually? It takes the form of your life falling apart. This is apparent in most of the major character arcs in the show, like Hurley's schizophrenic delusions becoming more mendacious and pushing him to suicide, John Locke losing his wife for all he stalks his father, Ben losing his control over the island for presuming to be any closer to the will of Jacob, and then needless to say Jack's whole estrangement from his abusive father who he desperately seeks reconciliation for and winds up transferring to half the cast of the show. The show betrays itself because on the very terms its set up you're not *meant* to know the nature of predestination, you're not *meant* to hear what your life was worth all along, you're not *meant* to have a first hand knowledge of the afterlife and you're not *meant* to win the respect and understanding of the abusive figures in your life who've been tormenting you when they themselves are only taking their frustration out for what they believed they themselves were *meant* to be witness to. You should watch the film "A Serious Man" by the Coen Brothers, does a much better job of telling the story Lost fumbled at the end.

[@Bmb.7v]

Jacob could have 100% beaten Ben in a fight if he had resisted

[@perrybb2]

Most of the characters on the show could beat Ben in a fight if they resisted, including Claire (even when she was pregnant)

[@Heisenburger815]

​@Torque don't speak but type yes. But Ben was at a very emotional state here

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@pnorbert2222Not in reality haha

[@albertsveinberger]

But if Ben has his baton, he could beat anyone

[@dirtydan9153]

@@albertsveinberger Lol was just about to say this. Baton Ben is undefeated.

[@SheldonAdama17]

I think Jacob got the point, Ben

[@Right_Said_Brett]

It makes no sense that Jacob didn't inform Ben that "Locke" is an intruder wearing the skin of the man whom he pretends to be. Very contrived writing.

[@aljarv4795]

theres a lot of reasons why that wouldnt affect anything for Ben. Ben had basically already decided to kill Jacob from the scene earlier in the episode where MiB explains to Ben the reasons why he should want Jacob dead which Ben then sits with for a while during the trek to Jacob, as we see in this scene all he needed was for Jacob to enrage him and 35 years of Ben's misery came out that MiB had validated, he was too far gone especially with MiB manipulating him. And Jacob wanted to test Ben as it's a philisophical opposition between him and MiB on the nature of humankind being doomed to corruption. He hoped that Ben wouldn't murder him in rage and instead be able to overcome his issues and MiB's manipulation of him, that's why he said something as inflammatory as he could to him, but Ben fails the test and kills Jacob. Jacob also knows his candidates are returning from 1977 as he says 'they're coming', so there will be someone to replace him who he expects to be Jack, someone who had the closest connection to the actual John Locke so the most likely to not be fooled by the MiB, someone who is driven, who Jacob now knows due to him returning to the Island and watching him (and the other candidates) through the light house glass believes in the Island to stop the MiB and protect it etc. I also think that Jacob wanted to die, he wanted his time as Protector to be over as his Mother also did, so this was his out too now that he had set up the endgame with the candidates and having Widmore bring Desmond back to the Island to turn off the Heart of the Island to deal with this MiB problem he made once he's gone. also Ben basically knows for sure that this isn't really Locke in this very scene before he kills Jacob where the MiB implies that he has a history with Jacob, which Ben knows isn't true of Locke. He just doesn't know its the Smoke Monster until the Series 6 opener is all, but even then he doesn't really care as he doesn't know anything about the Monster much and in Series 6 after this episode he is still willing to go with Locke believing that he can take charge of the Island again.

[@connor.1456]

The whole point is Jacob’s ideology is about not interfering and letting people choose their own actions. He believes everyone is capable of being good. He believed in Ben until the very end even though Ben had done unspeakable things. Jacob stood by his beliefs until he died.

[@vladcodreanu5526]

For a guy who lived for so long, Jacob proved total lack of social skills, if not sheer stupidity.

[@ranker4]

It was all planned. Jacob wanted to die in order for someone else, like Jack, then Hurley, to take his place as protector. Living for over 2000 years, defending the island from his brother, he knew he wouldn't win alone, so he had to die in order for Desmond to remove the stone, then Jack to fight the smoke monster who had lost powers, and then Kate to kill him, and then Desmond to put the stone cork back.

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

​@@ranker4I don't think he wanted to die. He went through the trouble of bring brahm and his men back to the island to enter the statue moments after Locke and Ben got there. He wanted them to secure the place if Ben decided not to kill him.

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

It's like his mother said, Jacob doesn't know how to lie. And he wanted to give Ben his choice, it's like the man in black said, he knew he was defeated. The point was to prove people would make the right choice without Jacob having to step in

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@user-hu9vi7nk1lNo it was his mission to find an exchange and like Jack discovered it inside while they talked to Jacob he waited what Ben would become without further infos. In fact Jacob was born into with a lack of knowledge and reasons for this situation so he had nothing more to say. The questioning with Sawyer Kate Jack and Hurley showed that he didnt know it himself how to decide. He waited til someone else took the decision and it might cld have been Ben when he had searched for it but after all he wanted to stay as a Dharma and corrupt others.

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

@@stillgotyourmom he had it all planned out from the beginning. Mib told Jack that he expected to be more surprised by who Jacob chose. He chose hurley.

[@pierrehurley]

He could have said literally anything that was just. Sorry Ben or anything and he would have loved uuuggghhh

[@seaworldman879]

Fabolous episode

[@repmorgan4078]

"what? I'm sorry I can't hear you"

[@goodguynow]

I thought no one comes in unless he invites someone in?

[@finfog4590]

When he kicks him into the fire - is the contravening the rules?

[@aljarv4795]

he was already dying due to Ben stabbing him, so MiB could finish him off sooner and it doesnt break their Mother's rules. MiB didnt really kill him, he just wanted to throw in his little bit of spite at the end.

[@TheRealCurtisWright]

Jacob got what he deserved. Played with the lives of man because his ego was too big to admit he might be wrong about them.

[@rollingflyer]

He wasn't wrong about Ben though

[@littlebunnyvideoproduction2278]

I think it's way more complicated than that, but I totally get how you and some characters like Ben would feel like this towards Jacob.

[@Spooked287]

So my brother in an alternative universe killed my friend in the same alternative universe?

[@entropysmith6965]

Wouldn’t MIB rolling Jacob into the fire be against the rules, since he was still alive when he did it? The fire was more likely to kill him before the stab wounds did.

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

When sayid tried to stab mib he just pulled the knife out. If it was against the rules jacob wouldn't have burned. He may not have until a few seconds later when he died from the knife wound

[@aljarv4795]

He was dying already, so it didn't matter as soon as the mortal wounds happened how exactly he dies then, its fair game. Kind of like when the Heart of the Island is put out, the Rules are gone, this is a smaller version of that that just applies to Jacob being unkillable as soon as the blade from Ben pierced his heart the Protector status went with him as Jacob was now 'killed'.

[@supremacyx3137]

I thought for one moment Jacob would try to convince Ben. But i guess he must have been like. " damn I need to go be Lucifer elsewhere. Don't have time for this dude. See ya in another world brother."

[@charynotchary7781]

Jacob was a dick for not communicating. could have saved so many lives instead he was at the same level as MOB. Literally metaphor for God not stopping the Devil and his games. Both as equally guilty in innocent death love the protrayed in the series

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

"Know that none may change the theme in my despite, and any who attempts to do so will become my instrument only in the devising of things greater and more wonderful that he himself had not imagined"

[@BajanNatureMysticDolt]

I hate Jacob. I’ve would have been Berry’s (MIB) right hand man.

[@charles2521]

Berry? is that his name? how do you know that?

[@mddi1420]

@@charles2521 there is a skit on youtube of an old comic con where mib name was reveal. Funny but unlikely , i do not think Barry was a common name during egyptian era

[@charles2521]

@@mddi1420 Names can also be "translated", like Jesus whose real name was Yeshua.

[@whizard84]

Team MIB always

[@Horatiuy]

I made my choice from last year to go to Russia and try my luck over there. I am not going to kill anyone.

[@MIXITUP7777]

Great acting from Michael Emerson, but the whole scene is stupid. Jacob is trying to stop this great evil from being unleashed into the world and he chooses to be flippant and non-caring to a person who's his brother's tool. God the writing really tanked after S4.

[@mfaure420]

They never expected the show to be that big of a hit. So they had to finish without a real plan. Kinda like GOT

[@GetYourPull18]

Jacob stated that he doesn't want to tell people what to do, what's right or wrong. He wants them to decide for themselves.

[@blazypika2]

the dude was 2000 years old and his entire existence was an eternal conflict with his brother. i get the feeling he was just tired and was ready to die by this point.

[@gwh3013]

@@GetYourPull18 yeah but he could have informed Ben that 'Lock' was actually someone else.. I mean , that wouldn't make it not a choice, just a choice with more information. it'd still be choice. Jacob has some great scenes but his plan is kinda stupid.

[@TheOnsieWithConverse]

@@gwh3013 The information that Locke wasn't actually Locke doesn't have any impact on whether it'd be moral for Ben to kill Jacob, who was an unarmed, non-threatening person whose home they just invaded, over petty recognition. Ben was fully capable of recognizing this. Jacob telling Ben about Locke may get Ben to not kill Jacob, but not because Ben realized it's wrong, only because "smoke monster bad".

[@lordsidious83]

loved lost, great show. however simple things! if jacob simply said, thats not john, a whole lot of bother would have been resolved. He gets it in the 6th series first thing when its too late

[@rodrikforrester9343]

Jacob dies like Jesus.He died because he had to

[@3rdEarlRussell]

jacob needed to die to have someone else kill the mib because of the rules

[@blazypika2]

he could have done a lot of things to prevent his death including simply fighting off ben. i think after living for 2000 years and being in an eternal conflict with his brother he was just tired and was ready to die.

[@neoluddite5676]

I don’t understand. The only way someone could kill Jacob if he was stabbed before he could even utter a word. Here, jacob had a full conversation with Ben

[@artembaranov]

Maybe u're confusing him with MiB?

[@neoluddite5676]

@@artembaranov Richard tried to kill Jacob too..but he already spoke

[@jxsh03]

Thats not true. Thats just something MiB told Richard to get him to kill Jacob before he could tell him what was really going on. Jacob could be killed at any time by anyone. The idea that certain people could only be killed if they didnt talk first was just a manipulation to get people to kill them quickly or be killed. As I said MiB told Richard to kill him before he spoke because he wanted Jacob dead and if Richard thought Jacob was the devil MiB wanted to maintain that illusion as that was the only way he could be sure to manipulate Richard into killing Jacob. Dogen said it to Sayid because he thought MiB would just kill him. MiB could not be killed because he was connected to the source, thats why Desmond needed to put the light out temporarily.

[@neoluddite5676]

@Josh Wheeler only a leader could kill Jacob. That’s why Locke/MIB convinced Ben to kill him. I don’t get how Richard comes into the equation

[@jxsh03]

@@neoluddite5676 There were no rules who could kill a protector. Jack and Jacobs mother were killed by MiB, Richard could have killed Jacob if he hadnt defended himself, Jacob was killed by Ben who was no longer the leader of the others. And being the leader of the others comes with no abilities, its just a title for leading the group who "follow" Jacobs rules through Richard. MiB didnt make Ben kill Jacob because he had been a leader (Ben wasnt even technically allowed to go into the statue as he was no longer a leader and had not been invited), he manipulated him into killing Jacob because MiB scanned him and watched him growing up and realised Ben had a desire for power and all he wanted was to be considered special and when he realised he wasnt he would lash out. He knew Ben would be jealous and wouldnt understand why he wasnt worthy of meeting Jacob but John Locke was and he also knew how Ben basically sacrificed everything (including his daughter) in service of Jacob but Jacob would still see Ben as not worthy due to his motivations being corrupt. Therefore MiB was unable to kill Jacob because of Mother's rule so he needed someone to do it for him. He tried to use Richard's religious superstitions to manipulate him into killing him but failed. He obviously tried with multiple people over the years but they all ended up dead but eventually managed to get Ben to do it. It didnt matter to MiB who it was, he just needed someone who could be manipulated into doing it.

[@LordofMuffins179]

Jesus Christ loves you all

[@Kingdom-purpose]

Amen

[@lSomeRandomGuyl]

Then why do we eat him on Sunday

[@LordofMuffins179]

@@lSomeRandomGuyl are you serious right now?

[@nickv.s125]

Ok, and your point is....?

[@LordofMuffins179]

@@nickv.s125 that Jesus Christ loves you all.